Ubuntu Tablets: Less Jarring Than Windows 8?

Following up on yesterday's news that Ubuntu for Tablets has been announced, Mark Shuttleworth answered questions about the purpose of the new version of Canonical's OS and what its intended strengths will be. He made special note of how Canonical wants the transition between desktop-Ubuntu and mobile-Ubuntu to be smooth. "When you transition from the tablet to the desktop, things don't move around. Your indicators, things like network status and time, they don't jump around on screen, they stay in the same place. That's what's really different certainly between our approach to convergence and for example Windows 8, where when you're in the desktop mode, which looks like Windows 7, and suddenly you get the new tile-based interface, it's a stark transition that can be jarring for users. In our case, you can almost think of those as gentle phase changes. When you go from phone to tablet you're stretching the device in very obvious ways. People who've used iOS on both phones and tablets would expect that. What's nice about Ubuntu is the phase change to the PC experience up from the tablet really just introduces window management, and it also introduces things like menus and dialog boxes. You aren't moving things around in dramatic ways." He added that they expect the user experiences to converge in Ubuntu 14.04. Shuttleworth also addressed the fragmentation problem faced by Android. He says manufacturers and carriers don't want to fall into that trap again, and that they've been receptive to the idea of leaving the core of Ubuntu alone while tweaking their individual services instead.

Comments

Keep the code, separate the UIs

[thelamecamel]

Now I finally see what Shuttleworth's been meaning when he says the same applications run on all form factors - as a developer, you separate the logic from the UI, and write three UIs: one for phone, one for tablet, and one for desktop. Until now I thought "nice in concept, but what's the point?". But if your device itself suddenly switches from a phone or tablet to a desktop, then your app can keep running and switch UIs on the fly.

What I really find neat is how tablet apps can become phone apps when docked on the side, for multitasking. This finally looks like a tablet that's not purely for consuming content.

Re:Keep the code, separate the UIs

[ByOhTek]

Separating UI from logic is a design paradigm that is well over 10 years old. It's generally a good idea, not just for different form factors like this, but for cross platform apps where you may not have a good UI library across all target platforms.

Re:Keep the code, separate the UIs

[blackest_k]

certainly it is a beginning, if the graphical tool kits can be expanded so they can present the interface in a manner which reflects the mode of the tablet. Even the user interface could be changed easily enough as it is many of us have at least a couple of options for desktop environments that are only a login away.

I like the idea of an ubuntu tablet since it almost certainly means it can be more. It almost certainly will be capable of running android maybe similar to running virtualbox in seamless mode. I can already run ubuntu on my android tablet as a dualboot but it isn't that good unless i bring a keyboard and mouse into the mix.

On the plus side hopefully there are going to be some decent tablets with open hardware around which new interfaces can be developed.

Re:Keep the code, separate the UIs

[crazyjj]

Separating UI from logic is a design paradigm that is well over 10 years old.

Yeah, but in practice has anyone ever been able to get it to work across radically different platforms? I mean, you're talking about moving on the fly from the ARM architecture with low memory, weak video drivers, etc. of a tablet to a full-on desktop system--just by changing the UI? Sounds like a great idea, but implementing it would be a fucking nightmare. It's hard enough as it is just trying to support all the possible desktop configurations.

Re:Keep the code, separate the UIs

[FireFury03]

Now I finally see what Shuttleworth's been meaning when he says the same applications run on all form factors - as a developer, you separate the logic from the UI, and write three UIs: one for phone, one for tablet, and one for desktop. Until now I thought "nice in concept, but what's the point?". But if your device itself suddenly switches from a phone or tablet to a desktop, then your app can keep running and switch UIs on the fly.

What I really find neat is how tablet apps can become phone apps when docked on the side, for multitasking. This finally looks like a tablet that's not purely for consuming content.

The thing is, I'm not convinced you actually want to have a separate UI... The Microsoft strategy of shoving a phone/tablet UI on a desktop or a desktop UI on a phone/tablet is clearly moronic, but I think there is some middle-ground where you can design a UI that works well for all the hardware.

For one thing, there doesn't seem to be a clear distinction between phone/tablet/laptop/desktop - if we look at the hardware, all of these devices have varying screen sizes and they can all have varying combinations of input technologies - my phone has a keyboard, some laptops have touch screens, you can connect a keyboard and mouse to a tablet. What we have is more like a continuum:
  - phones tend to have small touch screens with no keyboard (but some phones are practically big enough to be verging on "small tablet" size, some phones have keyboards and trackballs, pretty much any android phone can have a bluetooth/usb mouse and keyboard attached to it). Many phones can also be plugged into external monitors.
  - tablets tend to be a bit bigger than phones (but there isn't a lot of difference between a small tablet and a large phone). They have touch screens, but again, you can connect keyboards and mice to them, plug them into external screens, etc.
  - laptops are often, again, a bit bigger than tablets. But again, there's a cross over here - a small laptop may have the same screen size as a large tablet. They have keyboards and trackpads and you can connect external keyboards, mice, screens to them. But many laptops also have touch screens - what's the difference between a touch screen laptop and a tablet with a keyboard and mouse?
  - desktops are usually treated the same as laptops. Again, often bigger screens (but not always), they have keyboards and mice but nothing stopping you having a touch screen.

So where do you draw the line - at what point do you say "we're now on a tablet" and switch to the tablet interface? What's the justification for switching the *entire* UI to a tablet interface? Is it down to the input devices available? If I unplug the keyboard and mouse then am I suddenly incapable of using multple windows at once? Similarly, if I connect a keyboard and mouse to a tablet, do I suddenly expect to lose all the touch screen controls?

As for screen sizes - certainly as the screen gets smaller I'm more likely to want applications full-screen; and conversely for large screens I'm more likely to want applications in windows. But this isn't necessarilly the case for all applications. For example, even on a tablet, I may want an instant messaging conversation to be displayed at the same time as surfing the web, so enforcing full-screen-everything seems like the wrong approach.

Re:Keep the code, separate the UIs

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but in practice has anyone ever been able to get it to work across radically different platforms?

An entire segment has done it, in practice: all the network programmers.

Question: What kind of machine does the client have? What OS does it run?
Answer: I don't know. I can't ever know. Therefore, as a rigid matter of policy, I don't care.

finally, a tablet that will be welcome here

[Anonymous Coward]

provided that it isn't locked down, so we can disable all the snooping and logging canonical is doing these days...

and provided that it can be used without a mandatory online account. you should be able to use one anonymously, and pay for apps with an anonymous prepaid card (like a gaming card, etc).

and if open source (so we can see what they're doing. there's a lot of nosey apps out there) apps take off.

Re:finally, a tablet that will be welcome here

[thelamecamel]

Thankfully the snooping is going to remain optional (although still opt-out rather than opt-in). I've still got it turned off on my desktop, but reading documents like this (specifically the Data and metrics passed to the Smart Scopes service section) are a little reassuring, in that you can see that the developers are thinking about how to take only the data they need and are trying to protect it. I particularly like their (far-off) plans for sending location information: they won't send your exact co-ordinates like Google or Apple does - they'll round them off to maybe a 10km square because that level of location accuracy is probably not needed for the search. There's also a friendlier summary of the spec available.

That said, while this kind of fuck up is still happening, I'm going to keep online search off, despite being tempted by functionality like its iView (Aussie Hulu) support.

I too hope that you don't need an Ubuntu One account to use the tablet...

Re:Hey, Shuttleworth, Listen up

[Merk42]

Good thing the UIs aren't 100% the same then.

Re:Why care about the transition?

[dc29A]

Unity is not that bad, let's not exaggarate. Newer versions are getting speedier and more customizable so I expect most of the Ubuntu-using Linuxers will accept it.

That said, I also installed Linux Mint on my primary machine but I have Ubuntu/Unity on others. Unity works fairly well on my ARM Chromebook even without hw accelerated X.

Speedier? Male cow excrement! On my hexacore desktop with SSD, Unity Dash takes a good half second to open. Similar features that are instant on Windows 8, OS X, Gnome 3 or KDE. If by any chance I have a maximized window open, it can take a good 2 seconds. I like the idea of Unity, I like the concept of Unity, but it's a slow piece of shit.

Disclaimer: I use Ubuntu both at home and work.

Re:Hey, Shuttleworth, Listen up

[ShieldW0lf]

When I sit down at my PC, I want an interface that is designed for use on a PC, using a mouse and keyboard, and a large display.

When I pick up my phone or tablet, I want an interface that is designed for use on a phone or tablet, using finger swipes, taps, and gestures, and a small display.

THESE ARE TWO COMPLETELY FUCKING DIFFERENT THINGS.

Stop trying to make them the same.

Read page two, doofus:

"Developers will be able to ship a single application binary which itself can respond to the different form factors," Shuttleworth said. "You will be able to write a single application binary that can run on a phone, or a tablet, a PC, or a TV, and it will declare to the system which of those form factors it can support and we will present the appropriate interface for that application on each of those form factors."

I only see Ubuntu Duplo

[Errol backfiring]

Reading the Ubuntu site, I only see phone and tablet apps, no desktop programs. While a video player often looks "special" on a desktop (and I hate that, video players already eat enough resources when playing videos), a word processor must not. Or a CAD program. Or a spreadsheet. My e-mail client on my phone looks totally different than on my desktop and I want to keep it that way. I much rather configure my phone, tablet and desktop separately than having one config to overrule them all and in infeasibility bind them.

This is the opposite of Ubuntu for Android, where you get a desktop if you plug desktop hardware (through a docking device) into your phone. If that desktop is a real destop (XFCE, LXDE or whatever, not Unity), that would by far more practical.

Tiling

[mutube]

I'd love a good modern tiling WM for desktop/mobile/phone - with configurable numbers of panes/arrangements on different devices (i.e. a single one on a phone, plug in an external monitor and get a split horizontal with sub-panes on the right.)

Unfortunately Unity (and Ubuntu) ain't it.

Re:Why care about the transition?

[Lumpy]

Unity as a UI IS bad when used in a traditional computer. Same as how Windows 8 utterly sucks to those of us that do work on our computers. I have 3 24" monitors with at least 6 windows open at once and I need them all active at once. the Desktop UI had not get in my way. Under windows 8 it does. Under Unity it does.

Separating out the Desktop UI to be different between professionals and home users is a HUGE mistake when it comes to productivity. There are a LOT of really stupid changes in Unity. the scrollbars being 2 pixels wide but "POP UP" is frustrating to everyone that uses them. the UI taking over all the freaking time is annoying. And annoying = less productivity and money lost.

Re:Why care about the transition?

[Lumpy]

I am sure his Hexacore with SSD is using a $19.00 Intel non 3d video card and only 512 meg of ram...

People that build big machines always forget to install ram or video cards.

Re:Why care about the transition?

[jones_supa]

Every time a new Ubuntu release is coming, I hear that Unity or Compiz have "performance improvements" and excitedly go test it, but there never is significant improvements. Just yesterday I gave the Raring Ringtail daily build (2013-02-19) a spin, but the same sluggishness was there, including the always-slow opening Dash, which you mentioned. I would otherwise like to use Unity, but I can't waste all my system resources to basic desktop handling.

Re:Why care about the transition?

[thelamecamel]

If they can't get good linux drivers for their graphics card, then it's very possible they're stuck with no 3D acceleration. Depends whether the rig was intentionally built for linux or not.

Re:Why care about the transition?

[chill]

You weren't paying attention. He isn't pushing Linux, he's pushing Ubuntu. The entirety of the system here is what he is selling.

The point of the transition is that the tablet physically becomes the desktop when you simply add a keyboard and mouse, probably via Bluetooth. You don't drop your tablet when getting home or to the office, you just dock it. There is just one device. Well, two as you'll also have a phone.

What this seems to hope to achieve is a seamless computing experience with no "put this down, boot the PC, do work, shut PC down, grab tablet and go".

Sort of a "one device to rule them all". After watching the video, I was far more intrigued than I expected to be. I fully expect my reaction to be "what a stupid fucking idea", but instead found myself saying "damn, that actually looks nice. I want one."

Hardware Partner

[robmv]

Shuttleworth also addressed the fragmentation problem faced by Android. He says manufacturers and carriers don't want to fall into that trap again, and that they've been receptive to the idea of leaving the core of Ubuntu alone while tweaking their individual services instead.

And this shows how much Mr. Shuttleworth doesn't get the phone and tablets manufacturers and carriers and why there is no hardware partner and in my opinion they will not have one soon, like Ubuntu TV still doesn't have one. The reason Android took off is because Google was very careful to rebuild a lot of common Linux distribution modules by Apache licensed ones, for example the libc library. Manufactures and carriers want full control, they tolerate the GPL in the Linux kernel because they have no other viable option, but they don't like it (I am talking about them, I am not saying that I hate the GPL before people start implying that). Do you think Samsung will be happy to be forced to share their Android modifications that allow multiple applications (some vetted ones) on the same screen with all other OEMs?

These words of Mr. Shuttleworth only gives me hints that they have no secret hardware partner

Re:Why care about the transition?

[ais523]

The slowness in the Dash opening is, as far as I can tell, due to overuse of Zeitgeist (which is overengineered for what it does). So making the window manager faster isn't going to help there, and in general, it seems difficult to fix without a rethink of how that part of the desktop is implemented.

(FWIW, I use Unity as my primary desktop/window manager; I really like what it's trying to be, and it's quite a bit of the way there already, but there are a huge number of rough edges and it's still pretty slow and buggy.)

Re:Why care about the transition?

[dc29A]

If they can't get good linux drivers for their graphics card, then it's very possible they're stuck with no 3D acceleration. Depends whether the rig was intentionally built for linux or not.

Work:
Intel HD3000. Slow dash.

Home:
Intel HD4000. Slow dash.
NVidia 8400 GS or GTX 550 Ti with nouveau or proprietary drivers: slow dash, slow/choppy desktop preview.
ATI 5450 or 4200 (chipset VGA) with galeon or proprietary drivers: slow dash.

Again, no issues with other desktop environments. 12 Gb+ RAM too.

Re:Unity hate in 1, 2, 3...

[div_2n]

I hated Unity at first. It was a buggy and foreign experience that made my desktop much less usable than I was used to on previous Linux experiences. Then many of the the most glaring bugs got worked out and I found out why alt+tab was so broken for multiple instances of the same app -- for same-app window switching, use alt+` instead.

There's still bugs, but they're slowly ironing it out. And about that foreign experience -- I have some older versions on another machine I rarely use. Recently, I fired that thing up to get some data off it. I felt just as foreign going back to the old as I did when I first encountered Unity. The lesson for me was that change can feel awkward, but as long as an interface isn't TOO clumsy, you can get used to it.

Maybe there are some power users out there that find missing shortcuts, but I'm just not that heavy on shortcuts. For the most part, Unity is fine for me. I just don't care enough to make it that big of an issue once I figured out how to replicate my old workflow.

Re:It also looks out for your best interests...

[Dr_Barnowl]

On the other hand, most people don't think twice about using a search engine (regardless of whether you log in or not, they can and do track your preferences), email (a plaintext postcard that any SMTP server on the transfer path can read), or even just the normal web (cross-site advertising cookies, etc).

You can turn it off. The desktop environment makes a point of telling you about it, and explains how to turn it off. You can even uninstall the components that do it, without breaking anything (except of course, the integrated shopping lens). It provides a settings panel dedicated to turning it off - no CLI required.

I had a look at Google and nowhere obvious does it have a "stop tracking and analyzing everything I do" button.

I find it reassuring that out of all the people who are aggregating and monetizing your habit data (ie - almost everything with an online presence), Canonical actually goes out of their way to tell you about it and that you can stop them doing it.

Yes, I'd be more comfortable if they just didn't do it. But I'm happy that my preferred Linux distro will be more viable as a result of them gaining a revenue stream. And for those of us that care enough to post about it on a forum, it's laughably simple to spend a few seconds with a search engine and just disable it.

Or didn't you know about that, because you avoid everything like search engines that might track your habits?

Re:Unity hate in 1, 2, 3...

[Knuckles]

I'm really surprised, this story has by far the smallest ratio of irrational Ubuntu hate posts of any Ubuntu story in the past year. This must mean that Shuttleworth is onto something - and in fact I do find it difficult to find major flaws with the stuff he said in TFA. I found the whole idea appealing from the start, and if this plan works out, I'll be the first in line to get an Ubuntu TV, phone, tablet, laptop, and/or whatever I have to buy to finally get seamless free software-based unification for my devices from phone to TV.

Good news: This is no longer the case

[tepples]

I continued to page two, and I am excited about something that it says "Shuttleworth is really excited about": Ubuntu for tablets allows a phone-sized application to be snapped to the side in "side stage".

Re:Why care about the transition?

[BitZtream]

I am not a Linux fan, however if Ubuntu was to make a phone that had the apps I want (Just because you have an app that 'does the same thing' doesn't mean I want to use it) to use, and was just a phone normally that when I got to work I could just plugin the monitor and power, bluetooth keyboard and mouse and it instantly switches the display to desktop mode and I continue working just as if I'd brought my laptop ...

I'd considering use Linux for that. I'd prefer that they make OSX an ARM platform as well, so people made fat x86/ARM binaries and I could just use iOS on the phone display and OSX when in desktop mode, with apps just switching UIs between them just like the UI changes when the screen rotates.

I want a laptop phone. I want my laptop inside my phone. I DO NOT want my phone to behave like a desktop. I DO NOT WANT my desktop to behave like a phone/tablet. I want one device that switches between the two so that as long as I have my phone, I always have my laptop.

I would give up a fully decked Retina MacBook Pro in exchange for said device in a heartbeat, even if it ran on a slow ass ARM processor (compared to my i7 laptop) for the privilege of having only one device.

You may not realize it yet, but a single converged device that does both IS the mass market. Thats where its going to go eventually. Its just a question of when we get to the point of having enough CPU power for low enough energy and size usage requirements that we get the performance we demand in our phones.

Re:Unity hate in 1, 2, 3...

[Dr_Barnowl]

The alt-` thing is better than the standard Windows alt-tab behaviour... the alt-tab behaviour is alas, different to Windows, which is why it "feels wrong" to those of us who have laboured there a long time.

But yes, the main reason people hate on it, as far as I can make out, is that it's different.

They moaned soooo much about it when the close / minimize buttons were moved to the top left. But you think about it - it's the most efficient placement. What's the first thing you want to do when you close an app? Most of the time, open another one.

Windows : Close button top right, start button bottom left
OSX : Close button top left, start button bottom edge
Unity : Close button top left, start button (Dash) top left

Unity has the lowest mouse travel.

Re:Why care about the transition?

[chill]

E-mails, Facebook and all that other social media stuff is done thru a web browser. Windows has nothing to do with it, as the familiarity is in the browser and not the OS.

Witness Google's success with Chromebooks. For many people, the browser is the only interface they see.

My wife's laptop is Win7 and my desktop is Kubuntu. She is equally at home with both. The process on both is 100% identical. "Click the Firefox icon. Do whatever else -- Gmail, Hulu Plus, Amazon/Amazon Prime, Ebay, general browsing." Bookmarks are synced, both print to the same printer. The OS is rapidly becoming irrelevant.