The Internet Archive To Pay Salaries Partly In Bitcoin, Requests Donations

hypnosec writes "Bitcoin is gaining popularity among mainstream sites lately and the latest to adopt the digital currency as a medium of donations and payments is the Internet Archive. Ready to accept donation in the form of Bitcoin, the Internet Archive announced that it wants to do so to pay some part of employees' salaries, if they choose to, in Bitcoin. The Archive, known for its storage of digital documents (especially the previous version of webpages), is looking to start part salary payments in Bitcoin by April 2013 if everything goes well."

Comments

I'd quit

[Anonymous Coward]

The day my employer tells me I'm getting paid in Itchy and Scratch money is the day I stop working for them.

Re:I'd quit

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm amazed at how stupid people are.

Bitcoins can be converted to other real world currencies ya know?

My company accepts bitcoins and this is exactly what we do.

Re:I'd quit

[trytoguess]

Understandable. Luckily that's not what's happening here:

"Internet Archive announced that it wants to do so to pay some part of employees' salaries, if they choose to, in Bitcoin."

That's a direct line from the article the summary quoted. I do admit though, it's a rather inefficient sentence if you want to get a point across clearly.

Re:I'd quit

[AK Marc]

Sure, but I'd prefer to not be paid in corn futures either, though those can be converted.

Re:I'd quit

[AK Marc]

No, I want to be paid in Euros. Despite all the US jokes about the Euro about to collapse (OMFG, one of 17 countries has a debt ratio worse than the US, the entire continent is about to collapse), the Euro is in much better shape than the US, where not only is the fed on the brink of collapse, but most of the states, and most citizens of those states as well.

What I can't figure out is the "fiat" loons here love bitcoin, despite it being the most fiat currency ever conceived (aside from joke coinage, like mining company chits and other worker abuses before unions saved us all, which are also defended by "fiat loons").

Re:I'd quit

[Darinbob]

If it's so easy, then the employer can pay in REAL money.

Re:I'd quit

[jonbryce]

If its value in Dollars can double in a month, it can half in a month.

Or put it another way, if you think it is going to continue to rise in value, would you sign a rental agreement payable in Bitcoin?

Re:I'd quit

[jonbryce]

I would be quite happy to be paid in German Euros, but not Greek Euros which might end up being converted into Drachma.

Re:I'd quit

[Anonymous Coward]

"uncertainty in the market" - it's exactly this reason why and these times when people turn to alternate currency, like gold, diamonds or Bitcoin.
Any currency based on national debt (which is what we currently are using) seems to be problematic in the long term. Bitcoin has it's own issues but dependance on un-elected and unbalanced federal reserve isn't one of them, which ironically was founded to ensure the stability of the financial system.
It's feature of being a "deflationary currency" is certainly a strong selling point when we're seeing the dollar tank verses energy and living expenses, and interest rates too low to make savings a good idea.

The best investment advice is "Buy Low, Sell High". The second best advices is "Diversify!". Bitcoin seems to be outpacing gold and other monetary metals in exchangeable value, and is designed to be worth more later as it grows in popularity (I would argue that it's already found success in multiple ways), and as it's not recognized as "money" or anything with intrinsic value - could arguably be given as salary without income tax. It certainly could be done without anyone being the wiser. Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser's, I'd take a portion of my salary as Bitcoin in a heartbeat.

Corporations and the folks at the top have already gamed the government and financial systems beyond repair for themselves. It's time to start switching to a people's currency that's likely not possible to be gamed.

"I am not anonymous." - Great Big Bird

"I am Sparticus!" - Anonymous

Re:I'd quit

[Anonymous Coward]

damn it, my drug pusher only takes greenbacks, not Bitcoin.

Re:I'd quit

[mwvdlee]

Your sure your not ignorant?

Re:I'd quit

[Anonymous Coward]

Um no. You can exchange them for USD or just about any other currency of your choosing.

I've actually managed to pay ~25% of my expenses for the last two years with bitcoins, using them either directly or indirectly with a few smaller mining rigs.
I use them directly to pay my hosting, vpn, investments in silver, and the rest is converted to USD to pay off my car. (so yeah, you can pay your meal or mortgage no problem)

The amount of places accepting them is growing fast, with over 2000 merchants using the bitpay processor alone right now.

I find them great to use directly when I can. Payment is almost instant. Don't have to worry about credit card data. You have direct evidence of transaction via the blockchain, so the one time I actually did have an issue with a transaction (cart failed), it was easy to show a valid transaction did indeed occur and was quickly resolved.

But it's easy enough to convert to dollars too if you want.

Re:I'd quit

[jonbryce]

Well it did fall dramatically following the problems with the MTGox exchange.

Re:I'd quit

[brokenin2]

I'm posting pseudonymously instead of anonymously.. Wow, I can really feel the difference.. Fear is overwhelming me.. Let me see.. If my karma drops, what exactly happens then? Oh yeah.. a number somewhere that doesn't really mean anything changes.

I have a fair chunk of change for my discretionary spending, but it's almost all in Bitcoin. Sure, I pay the electric bill in USD (for now) and buy the groceries that way, but there are plenty of things that I won't buy unless I can buy them with Bitcoin. They are missing out on *some* sales.. Maybe the number isn't very significant, but for the ease of setting it up, I don't see why you wouldn't accept them.

Now, the reason I keep a lot of my money in Bitcoin is because it is a superior currency. No two ways about it. People sit there and bitch and moan about a 1% tax hike here, or there, but then immediately turn right around and are completely oblivious to a 50% tax that just took 1/2 of all their wealth.. They don''t notice when this happens because China buys up all the extra money that the CB keeps printing, but I'll wager a guess that they'll notice one day, when China comes back over here and purchases the west coast using our own money.

Re:I'd quit

[TheRaven64]

I would imagine that they pay him with tokens that the US government, promises to accept in exchange for taxes, and which oil-producing counties promise to accept in exchange for oil, guaranteeing a fairly large medium-to-long-term demand.

Re:I'd quit

[crtreece]

the most fiat currency ever conceived

You must have some non-standard definition of fiat that I have not encountered before. In the wikipedia fiat money article, we see a few definitions:

• any money declared by a government to be legal tender.
• state-issued money which is neither convertible by law to any other thing, nor fixed in value in terms of any objective standard.
• money without intrinsic value.

Not being state backed would eliminate the first 2. You might personally question the "intrinsic" part of item 3 and you might not place value on it, some bitcoin mining machine performed a specific, well defined, item of work to create a bitcoin, giving it value within the community.

Merriam-webster gives:

• a command or act of will that creates something without or as if without further effort
• an authoritative or arbitrary order

Creation of bitcoins requires effort, maintaining the blockchain requires effort, and there is no authority that can arbitrarily create bitcoins without doing the work, so I don't see how any of those would apply.

You seem to be equating bitcoins with floozor beenz.

Re:I'd quit

[trout007]

The word salary comes from sal or salt because people were paid in that commodity.

Re:I'd quit

[pla]

Anyone with bitcoins knows that they need real money as well. So any bitloon would also have some other way to pay, or they aren't eating tonight.

Anyone with an oil field knows they need real money as well.
Anyone with cattle knows they need real money as well.
Anyone with gold knows they need real money as well.
Anyone with a silo full of corn knows they need real money as well.

Anyone with "real money" can't eat it.
Anyone with "real money" knows they need GBP (when they visit the UK).
Anyone with "real money" can't put it in their gas tank (though I suppose you could burn it for heat).

Use of one currency doesn't preclude the use of others. Bitcoin, whether the haters gonna hate or not, has become the preferred online currency for small-scale international transactions between people whose governments have silly archaic rules about sending "real" money into or out of the country (ie, all of them). Case in point, try sending $50 to a friend in a country that doesn't use your native currency. You can expect to nearly double that in the various fees you'll need to pay to do it legally and safely (by which I mean not stuffing an envelope with bills and praying you can trust the postal service in both countries).

"Real money" has exactly one required use - Paying your annual government extortion bill. For everything else, you can use whatever the hell both sides of the transaction agree upon. Corn, wine, oil, gold, frankincense, myrrh, BTC. All good, so long as both sides agree.

Re:I'd quit

[pla]

It makes for one less step when they want to buy their drugs.

Sorry, my dealer only takes payment in Tide Unscented. Do you know of a good BTC to detergent exchange?

tax evasion?

[Anonymous Coward]

how should this be taxed?

Re:tax evasion?

[Anonymous Coward]

The same way everybody else does:
- Employer says "I'm paying this much in cash/Bitcoins which has a value of $X USD."
- Employer deducts taxes
- Employee says "I just got paid this much in cash/Bitcoins which has a value of $X USD."
- Employee files taxes.

WOW THIS POST DESERVES A DOCTORATE IN ECONOMICS

Re:I pay employees partly in high quality scrap st

[Anonymous Coward]

Dear Sir:

I have been requested by the Nigerian National Steal Company to contact you for assistance in resolving a matter. The Nigerian National Steal Company has recently concluded a large number of contracts for scrap steal exploration in the sub-Sahara region. The contracts have immediately produced moneys equaling BTC40,000,000. The Nigerian National Steal Company is desirous of scrap steal exploration in other parts of the world, however, because of certain regulations of the Nigerian Government, it is unable to move these funds to another region.

You assistance is requested as a non-Nigerian citizen to assist the Nigerian National Steal Company, and also the Central Bank of Nigeria, in moving these funds out of Nigeria. If the funds can be transferred to your name, in your United States account, then you can forward the funds as directed by the Nigerian National Steal Company. In exchange for your accommodating services, the Nigerian National Steal Company would agree to allow you to retain 10%, or BTC4 million of this amount.

However, to be a legitimate transferee of these moneys according to Nigerian law, you must presently be a depositor of at least BTC100,000 in a Nigerian bank which is regulated by the Central Bank of Nigeria.

If it will be possible for you to assist us, we would be most grateful. We suggest that you meet with us in person in Lagos, and that during your visit I introduce you to the representatives of the Nigerian National Steal Company, as well as with certain officials of the Central Bank of Nigeria.

Yours truly,

Prince Anonymous Coward

They forgot the first rule of Bitcoin:

[Compaqt]

Don't talk about BitCoin!

Re:Quantum Computing

[Dexter Herbivore]

The U.S Dollar is backed by the military! Bitcoin is backed by "economic terrorist"!

Ultimately, the *only* thing backing a currency is the confidence of those who use it.

genius

[shentino]

Well that's a genius move to getting government attention.

Get bitcoin mixed up with payroll and the IRS is sure to take interest with regards to income taxes.

This is going to get interesting very fast.

Re:Don't confuse exchange with speculation

[TheRaven64]

Everyone who uses Bitcoin is a currency speculator. You can't buy everyday essentials with it, so you have to turn it back into money that your grocer accepts to do so. If you're keeping the bitcoins and not exchanging them for useful commodities (food, shelter, shiny toys, whatever), you're gambling that they will increase in value over time. The current situation with Bitcoin is that a large number of people are making the same gamble. This becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, right up until the point when a large number of them decide to cash out. You might want to read up on the stock market in the late 1920s for a nice historical example of this happening...

On the other hand, if you're selling it immediately, then you're telling the market that you don't trust it as a long-term store of wealth and this contributes to the volatility. And if you don't think this is problematic, then consider what would happen if the value of your monthly, or even weekly, paycheque varied by 50% every week. Or even more. If you get paid on Friday, but on Thursday don't know whether you'll be paid $1000 or $500 (or $50), how financially secure will you be? How will it affect the rest of the economy if everyone has such variable incomes that they hoard some other store of value (e.g gold, land, or even US dollars) to hedge against a possible crash?

Re:Roll up! Roll up!

[Troed]

the more people that join the pyramid the more the "bitcoins" held by people like the above poster are worth

No. During the last year and a half, when the value of a bitcoin went from $32 (at which price point I bought a few) down to just above $2 (at which price point I didn't manage to buy a few) and then back up to $30 again the number of bitcoin users has increased exponentially.

There's actually no correlation whatsoever between the number of bitcoin users and the price of a bitcoin, which could be seen as falsifying your statement.

On the other hand, it's well known that the bitcoin economy in no way functions as a pyramid or ponzi scheme: http://www.quora.com/Is-Bitcoin-a-ponzi-scheme

You guessed wrong.

[DerekLyons]

You think the IRS doesn't already have procedures for employees getting paid in foreign currencies, or scrip, or in kind, or other carriers of value or anything else not US dollars? (That's a rhetorical question, because they do have such procedures.)

Re:Roll up! Roll up!

[pla]

Remember folks, the more people that join the pyramid the more the "bitcoins" held by people like the above poster are worth. Think of that vested interest after reading about how wonderful these things are.

Remember folks, don't take financial advice from people who don't understand the term "pyramid scheme".

Pyramid schemes: The "every gun is an AK-47" of the financial world.

Re:Don't confuse exchange with speculation

[pla]

Everyone who uses Bitcoin is a currency speculator.

You could say the same about the US Dollar. You have "speculated" that the government won't default; that Bernanke won't devalue the dollar (even more) with another even bigger round of QE; that Walmart won't decide next week that they only take payment in gold or vintage Furbys or Yuan (yes, they can. No, it doesn't.)


You can't buy everyday essentials with it

Not the best hill to die on - You can buy just about anything denominated in BTC today. In addition to the thousands of online vendors that take it, you can even visit a growing number of brick-and-mortars that take it.

Real Bitcoin Tax in Canada

[CmpEng]

Since so many people ask about the tax issues around bitcoins thought I would share my experience with bitcoin profits and taxes in Canada. Basically I purchase equipment to build a dedicated bitcoin machine, total cost around $900 mostly for graphics cards. In all I made about 600 bitcoins over three months and was on average able to cash them out for about $10 per bitcoin shortly after the crash of the price from $30 on the way down to $5. As a Canadian during the $30 spike, the ability to liquidate fast enough to take advantage of those prices while limited due to the risk I was willing to take about putting my bitcoin in different online exchange accounts. In all I gross about $6k and come tax time spoke with my accountant and was able to claim it as business income. That means I was able to write off a portion of space in my house (limited by local by-laws), mortgage payments, power, utilities, etc... as well as write off portions of the $900 PC purchase each year as capital investment. After all was said in done on the $6k I took in, I ended up having to pay back $1.5k for a net of $4.5k plus a still have a great new PC. For the three months I toyed with Bitcoin it was certainly worth it.

Bitcoin ATM

[bill_mcgonigle]

I just happen to be sitting waiting for a bitcoin talk to start at Liberty Forum and I just walked past a bitcoin ATM and my next stop is a company that is making them usable for purchase at 7-11 and Walgreens. Interesting times.