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France Plans 20-Billion Euro National Broadband Plan

Posted by timothy on from the such-munificence-with-tax-money dept.

judgecorp writes "France is planning a €20 billion programme to get super-fast broadband to its rural population. About half the funds will come from government investment, and President Hollande believes the work will create 10,000 jobs. Half the population should have fast broadband in the next five years, and the whole country in ten years. France is at a disadvantage for broadband as it is a large country with a lot of rural areas. However, it also has a more left-leaning government willing to take on infrastructure projects."

29 of 178 comments (clear)

  1. Editors.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Hollande!

    1. Re:Editors.... by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 3, Informative

      Hollande!

      And they're only planning to make a plan, according to the story title.
      Editors, indeed!

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
  2. France is a large country? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 5, Funny

    You call that a large country with a lot of rural areas? Now this is a large country with a lot of rural areas!

    --
    "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    1. Re:France is a large country? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Funny

      It's more like the French are doing it because Australia is doing it.

      It's cute the way they appreciate and imitate our Aussie culture and style. And they almost get it right, but there's a certain je ne sais quoi they never seem to manage. I'm not sure what it is though.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    2. Re:France is a large country? by HJED · · Score: 2

      Yep, one of the few reasons that I'll be voting for the government over the coalition in September (second last and last on the ballot). Although I doubt they'll win, hopefully the pirate party will get its act together before than or Tony Abbot loses the Liberal leadership (unlikley).

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      null
    3. Re:France is a large country? by klapaucjusz · · Score: 4, Informative

      You call that a large country with a lot of rural areas?

      By European standards, France is a large country (roughly 1000km across), with some rather sparsely populated areas (the Northern Alps and the Massif Central). France also has a strong tradition of massive, nation-wide infrastructure projects (we've had a comprehensive high-speed train network since the 1980s), so a nation-wide broadband infrastructure is a natural thing to do.

      Now this is a large country with a lot of rural areas!

      That thing is continent-sized, not country-sized.

    4. Re:France is a large country? by cycler · · Score: 2

      Well, I think the poster thought "a large country in Europe".

      But, if you want large countries (in Europe) that are very rural, look at the Nordic countries. The population density in France is 117/km^2 whereas in Norway, Finland and Sweden it is 16, 18 and 23 respectively. In terms of area, Sweden is the third largest country in Europe with just Spain in front.

      Now get of my lawn! ;)

      /C

    5. Re:France is a large country? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 4, Informative

      According to Nationmaster, Australia has 490 million hectares of arable land, while France has 185 million. Environmental Knowledge Systems Australia (EKSA) says that 400 million hectares of Australian land is actively used for agriculture.

      Even if France used all of its arable land, it still wouldn't come close to Australia.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    6. Re:France is a large country? by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2

      Oops, screwed up the units. Add some zeros to those numbers. Proportions remain the same though.

      Please don't taunt me a second time!

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    7. Re:France is a large country? by deimtee · · Score: 4, Funny

      11 time zones ? pfft. Antarctica has 24.

      --
      I'm guessing that wasn't on their radar screen...
    8. Re:France is a large country? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Rather imitate the Aussie's than the U.S. The isp's there got tens of billions for the exact same thing and simply pocketed the cash and did nothing.

    9. Re:France is a large country? by skegg · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Bah! We've got cattle stations larger than some countries.

      And yet, despite our ridiculously massive land mass and relatively tiny population, owing to fucked-up government policies we also boast some of the most expensive house prices in the world.

    10. Re:France is a large country? by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      Or containing as much bullshit as france.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  3. Cool! by rts008 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I hope this works out for them, but I'm not holding my breath...

    If your nations economy can support this, then why not?

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    1. Re:Cool! by locater16 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because... France's economy can't support it, France has a huge public debt and far too much of it's GDP is spent by the government, with it's ultra restrictive labor practices fiber optics everywhere still aren't going to attract startups like Kansas city and Google Fiber, and large government projects such as this usually end costing far too much for what is paid for. Just for starters.

    2. Re:Cool! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Interesting

      There is nothing wrong with the government providing a lot of employment and spending a lot. Plenty of successful countries that have avoided the global recession do.

      In fact this is exactly what they need now: growth. A recession is caused by a reduction in spending due to lack of confidence. Companies don't get orders, don't sell things, so they in turn don't buy stuff from other companies and so on. The government can counter that by creating big contracts.

      That is how you get out of a recession. The government spends its way out, and then when times are good again cuts back and reduced the deficit it built up. Over the channel in the UK our government is doing the opposite, cutting back on everything and delaying the recovery as much as possible. They want to drive down wages, cut employment rights and get rid of aspects of the government that could be turned into profit generating businesses. It is exactly what happened during Japan's lost decade, only ours is already projected to last at least 11 years.

      France has the right idea. Government debt is not like household or credit card debt, you can't solve it by cutting spending before the economy is fixed.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Cool! by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      'Done right' is not the same as 'fiber everywhere'.

      As always, it's more complicated then that. Fiber everywhere your digging up, sure. Fiber to all the 4G access points (they are almost certainly already done). But many places are better served by existing copper for the last mile. Many others are better served by wireless data.

      Simple minded, single mode solutions to complicated problems. That always turns out well.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  4. President Holland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why does the President of Holland need to get involved? Surely the responsibility for a national broadband network should fall to the President of France?

    1. Re:President Holland by SpzToid · · Score: 2

      Oh man, my brain immediately starts to think of about 100 jokes that involve the %$#@! global Dutch KPN Telecom, but then the %$#@!%$#@! huge-ass mega-global France Telecom monstrosity kills off each and every one.

      --
      You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
  5. Re:Large? by HJED · · Score: 2

    Or Australia, where they are already doing the same thing. (Although if the elections go the way they look like they are going to go, I expect that few will actually recive it)

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    null
  6. Re:[NOT]Cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this person serious?
    If so then wow, you americans really are brainwashed..

  7. In the next 5 years? by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Make that 12.

    As we learned recently, French workers work only 3 hours a day of the 7 they should.

    1. Re:In the next 5 years? by jkflying · · Score: 3, Funny

      This was planned by the French though, so they've already taken this into account.

      --
      Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
  8. Re:[NOT]Cool! by Bert64 · · Score: 2

    Then most of the world is communism...
    The government builds roads and all manner of other infrastructure for the benefit of all the people.
    Many things are simply not economically viable to do in a capitalist system, so they would never get done at all without government intervention.

    --
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  9. Re:and another fail for the "jobs" metric. by jkflying · · Score: 2

    I think they mean the construction project will support 10,000 jobs.

    --
    Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
  10. Paris First by Archon-X · · Score: 2

    .. I'd love it if they finished rolling out fiber-optic in Paris first.. Depending which arondissement you're in, the only option is super-saturated ADSL (800k/s down, 70k/s up) - or cable, which is even worse..

  11. Re:and another fail for the "jobs" metric. by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    Think about the "2 million euro per alleged job":
    France has to 'make' the optical cable, test it, deploy the mobile test equipment, the existing ducts have to be cleaned out, new larger pits may have to be created/expanded, vans, trucks have to be used to move trained teams around France.
    For all the unique telco skill sets you have a few extra jobs that add up and spend in small communities and big cities as they move around France and upgrade.
    Add in backhaul needs, the exchange upgrades, back up power, suburban roll out, isolated communities, mountains...
    As for providing "free" broadband nationwide - existing and new telcos will provide their cheap/expensive plans on the new network, like in S Korea or Australia - you have optical to your home, you "pay" for any telco at any speed/data/package you or your business needs.
    As for "want to set up shop in that place or not" - Who cares, France will have optical in place for generations of users, what France uses it for is for France to decide.
    If people are happy with online gaming, VOIP, telemedicine, telecommuting or just HD renting movies - France has the upgrade in place and anyone with a need or vision can run with it.
    Other parts of the world will have rust belt coaxial, optical to the node, ADSL upgrades and city wide non compete clauses to 'fix' up over time.
    France will be moving on in the digital age just like it did with heavy engineering, aerospace and now networking.
    The world is moving beyond the basics of gas, electricity, water, rail, ports, bridges and paved roads ...
    How does the "2 million euro per alleged job " look with the 'private' sector spending?... you think the average existing private big national telco is all lean and modern?
    "So you think the NBN is expensive?"
    http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/2013/02/14/3690222.htm
    That ~$20 billion Australian telcos spend keeping their network running for property, plant and equipment" (PPE) over 10 years.
    ie most countries are already paying out billions to the keep basic copper and optical working every year making a national optical rollout look not so expensive :)

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  12. Re:Large? by dave420 · · Score: 2

    The article doesn't say France is the largest, just that it is large. Yes, Canada is larger, as are a bunch of other countries. That does not stop France itself from being large.

  13. Why not just go after the low hanging fruit? by dixonpete · · Score: 2

    Universal access is damnably expensive but a lot can be done on the cheap. Like hooking up the highest density areas first and requiring all new construction to have fiber. Better something than nothing.