Slashdot Mirror


Six of Hanford's Nuclear Waste Tanks Leaking Badly

SchrodingerZ writes "A recent review of the Hanford Nuclear Reservation in Washington state (where the bulk of Cold War nuclear material was created) has found that six of its underground storage tanks are leaking badly. Estimations say each tank is leaking 'anywhere from a few gallons to a few hundred gallons of radioactive material a year.' Washington's governor, Jay Inslee, said in a statement on Friday, 'Energy officials recently figured out they had been inaccurately measuring the 56 million gallons of waste in Hanford's tanks.' The Hanford cleanup project has been one of the most expensive American projects for nuclear cleanup. Plans are in place to create a treatment plant to turn the hazardous material into less hazardous glass (proposed to cost $13.4 billion), but for now officials are trying just to stop the leaking from the corroded tanks. Today the leaks do not have an immediate threat on the environment, but 'there is [only] 150 to 200 feet of dry soil between the tanks and the groundwater,' and they are just five miles from the Colombia River."

53 of 221 comments (clear)

  1. Nothing To Worry About by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    These radioactive leaks are nothing to worry about. All it takes for Congress to actually do something about proper funding, regulations & oversight is a major disaster. How many people have been killed so far? None? Um, well, gee, I guess we'll have to wait until a lot of people die, or a politician or celebrity gets sick.

    1. Re:Nothing To Worry About by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Regulations? This was a government-run site!

      As to funding, they are actively cleaning up the site.

      Oversight is another mystery - the cleanup is being done by a collaboration between the Department of Energy, the EPA, and Washington State. You have 3 distinct agencies from both state and federal governments "overseeing" the project.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Nothing To Worry About by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Funny

      SImple.... all we need is to get some congressional aid to slip language into a bill (since they don't read them anyway) requiring congressmen to do a walking tour of each nuclear site at least every 5 years. Garaunteed everything is squeeqy clean and no longer hot in 4 years.

      That or there would be an emergency session of congress to remove the requirement for national security reasons.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    3. Re:Nothing To Worry About by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Pretty much. I live there. Don't work there but have lots of friends who do. The leak has been known for a while and this story is just finally starting to reach critical mass (ha!) now that we have a new governor that takes it more seriously. The immediate solution is for them to stop cutting funding -- we have 2/3rds of all the high level waste spills here and we get 1/3rd of the cleanup money. It goes back and forth we red tape and lawsuits with the contractors not meeting goals because they don't have funding, so the govt tries to penalize, they try to sue back due to lack of funding... nothing gets done.

      A *real* solution here involves our politicians getting off their asses and coming up with a permanent storage solution, which will never happen. Nobody wants that in their back yard. The vitrification plant? I have a friend who's a lead engineer out there and they're making it up/solving problems AS THEY GO. They're not even sure if it's going to work yet! There's no detailed plan, although to be fair that's how the Manhattan project ran in the first place.

      Also, Hanford was much more than refining the plutonium for the Fat Man bomb. In fact that reactor is clean, they give tours now (I've been inside it). They invented the process and refined the majority of the stuff for everything in our nuclear arsenal now, and it had several experimental reactors out there to test breeder reactors, fast flux reactors, making medial isotopes, etc. A few of which were never even finished.

    4. Re:Nothing To Worry About by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unbelievably, the responses so far are that the government wasn't being overseen by enough other government. Of course, then you need government to oversee the government that oversees the government.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:Nothing To Worry About by kermidge · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, but.... government is not monolithic. NRC is not hand in glove with EPA, for instance. Each branch and agency has its own fiercely-defended rice bowl. I'm not saying collusion isn't possible, only that it's not automatic.

    6. Re:Nothing To Worry About by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      There are already 3 agencies jointly overseeing the site, including one that is a state agency. Are you suggesting another would solve the problems there?

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re:Nothing To Worry About by znanue · · Score: 5, Informative

      You're cynical about congress. But, people really don't vote for these issues in any kind of numbers. Not when there are much more important single wedge issues to get irate about. Also, people don't want to be informed about this until it starts retarding babies or dramatically increasing cancer rates. And then, they seem to only think it happens to them when it happens to them.

      I much more blame the electorate than congress for this lack of attention. If we took a million people to the capital building, or wrote a million letters, or even wrote a million emails, we might get some attention paid to this issue.

      Z

    8. Re:Nothing To Worry About by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Reality is, it's likely that it's not the radioactivity that's most dangerous. The real issue is heavy metals and those things generally containing entire heavy end of periodic table. Stuff that is REALLY toxic.

      Radioactivity from a little leak into a huge river is nonexistent in terms of danger. Toxic heavy metals on the other hands can poison a river even with fairly small presence.

    9. Re:Nothing To Worry About by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      Not sure why this is regarded as "leakinng badly" though...

      Six tanks leaking at rates of a few to a few hundred gallons PER YEAR doesn't seem like a serious leak.

      The problem should definitely be dealt with, but we're talking replacing only six tanks (each holding "tens of thousands of gallons" (not "millions") of radioactive wastes), pumping the old tanks' contents into the new tanks, then disposing of the old tanks and cleaning up under them to the extent that's practical.

      In other words, TFS blows the problem up to sound much bigger and scarier than it actually is. But what else is new?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    10. Re:Nothing To Worry About by jbburks · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is: when WW II and the first part of the Cold War were going on, Hanford was underregulated. The goal was to beat the Soviets in the race to build bombs. They should never have put that waste in single-lined tanks with no plan to ever get it out. Now, the site is OVER regulated. The tanks are leaking, but no one will let them take it out of the tanks unless every part of the plan is 150% safe and they have a plan for storing the waste for ten million years. Meanwhile, the tanks are rusting and the waste is leaking. Why not do what we can to get the waste out and stabilized rather than awaiting perfection that will never come.

    11. Re:Nothing To Worry About by riverat1 · · Score: 2

      Hanford is not just any nuclear plant. There were 9 reactors built there between 1943 and 1963 to produce Plutonium-239 and Uranium-233 for the US nuclear weapons programs. Most of the waste in these tanks is not from the reactors themselves but leftovers from the Pu-239 extraction process, not something power reactors have to deal with. All that's stored at power reactors are spent fuel rods (a problem but not nearly as nasty as the stuff at Hanford).

    12. Re:Nothing To Worry About by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're cynical about congress. But, people really don't vote for these issues in any kind of numbers. Not when there are much more important single wedge issues to get irate about. Also, people don't want to be informed about this until it starts retarding babies or dramatically increasing cancer rates. And then, they seem to only think it happens to them when it happens to them.

      I much more blame the electorate than congress for this lack of attention.

      I, the voter, have a full-time job and don't have the time to learn about all these issues in detail. The whole point of electing representatives is that it becomes their job. They can devote the time that I cannot, to learn about these issue in detail so they can make an informed decision on it. Whether it be a vote on a bill, or even just deciding what's important and what's not.

      If I were well-informed enough to vote on this type of issue, we wouldn't need to elect representatives. We could just hold a direct electronic democratic vote by the entire electorate on each individual issue.

      So it's either a failure by our representatives, or a failure of our system of government. It is not a failure of the electorate.

    13. Re:Nothing To Worry About by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I'm well aware of the Federal Government's ability to conflate civilian and military. Sort of gets to my point - the government is a terrible regulator of itself.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  2. Yucca Mountain by lazuli42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How much of this could have been avoided if Harry Reid and President Obama had not derailed the Yucca Mountain project? And if groups like Greenpeace weren't so effective in opposing solutions to nuclear waste storage? They cheered the end of the Yucca Mountain project and called its supporters morons. Where are we now?

    --

    "There's companies that are just so cool that you just can't even deal with it," - Bill Gates, about Google

    1. Re:Yucca Mountain by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Informative

      No it isn't, with even a cursory look into the situation. Yucca mountain was for spent fuel rods from commercial plants. This disaster area is the leftover crap from reprocessing fuel to extract the Plutonium. Yucca mountain was primarily for commercial reactors - this was a government-run site.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Yucca Mountain by peon_a-z,A-Z,0-9$_+! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      From the Wikipedia for Yucca, Yucca Mountain was...

      ...for spent nuclear reactor fuel and other high level radioactive waste...

      (Italics added)

      In the Nuclear Industry, the byproducts of the Plutonium production situation at Hanford is what we would refer to as high level radioactive waste.

    3. Re:Yucca Mountain by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yucca Mountain was designed to store wastes AFTER they had been immobilized and put in long-term storage casks.

      The problem here is that they haven't even started that first step. This is still millions of gallons of raw liquid waste, in a state that is totally unsuitable for interstate transport and burial. If Yucca Mountain were up and running today, it wouldn't help this problem one bit.

      If they actually took the initiative to solidify this waste now and put it in casks, they could safely store it on site for decades or centuries, just like they're currently doing with commercial reactor waste. They don't need something like Yucca Mountain to address the current risks.

    4. Re:Yucca Mountain by MightyYar · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yucca mountain could not handle the millions of gallons of waste at Hanford, even if you could find a a way to transport it safely. The largest-scale part of the problem is the roughly 10x20 mile patch of contaminated groundwater, for which Yucca would do nothing.

      But step back from numbers for a moment and just use some reasoning... if they can pick it up and bring it to Yucca, then it's not an expensive cleanup issue, is it? Sure, it's no fun to build on-site storage - but it certainly doesn't have much to with cleanup.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:Yucca Mountain by peon_a-z,A-Z,0-9$_+! · · Score: 2, Informative

      Millions of gallons can be converted into a smaller volume through chemical reprocessing of the materials. Imagine if every time you took a shit, the water that was in the toilet was instantly put in a tank and designated part of the "waste" produced by you.

      This is similar to the situation at Hanford - had reprocessing not been outlawed we wouldn't have had to (and still could go back and fix) this political problem of storing the ENTIRE waste byproduct.

    6. Re:Yucca Mountain by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      It is easier to solidify it after the short lived and intense radionuclides have decayed in a decade or two and the waste cools down. In the meantime storage of the rods in ponds provides a cheaper way of cooling the rods. If it was vitrified hot it would probably crack the container. If we could actually separate the short lived radionuclides from the long lived radionuclides and burn them in a reactor of course none of this longwinded crap would be necessary. However all R&D work on it has been stopped for "proliferation" concerns.

    7. Re:Yucca Mountain by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How do you propose moving millions of gallons of nuclear waste to Yucca mountain? The primary problem at Hanford is cleanup, not storage. When it's all sitting in secure containers, ready to move to a storage facility... then we'll talk about Yucca mountain. Hundreds of other (commercial, private, though heavily regulated) facilities manage to store their nuclear waste without contaminating groundwater. The government does owe private industry a storage facility, but it sure would be nice for them to demonstrate that they can operate one.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    8. Re:Yucca Mountain by michael_cain · · Score: 2

      It's not clear that, even without the executive branch's decision, continuing with Yucca Mountain was going to be easy. For the first time in pretty much a generation, in 2012 the SCOTUS ruled that there are things that the federal government can't force individual states to accommodate. The court might decide that taking even the perceived risks associated with transporting and storing large volumes of high-level nuclear waste is one of those things. The 1987 statutory change that said only Yucca Mountain could be studied was at least a little dodgy -- attached to a budget reconciliation bill in conference committee and never debated in Congress. There's some evidence that the hydrology at Yucca is more complex than originally believed. If Yucca Mountain got hauled back into court on state coercion grounds, there would be a lot of pressure to require the DOE to unseal the records on the clean-up at Rocky Flats in Colorado, which many people think was inadequate because of the government's subsequent behavior with regard to the "clean" site. The same sort of issue came up over the last few years when one of the tribes in Utah proposed using tribal lands as a "parking" site for dry cask spent fuel storage -- the utilities proposing that plan have abandoned it.

      The American West has become much more populous, much more urban, and much more influential from an economic perspective since plans to locate the permanent waste site for (predominantly) eastern reactors in the West were originally floated.

    9. Re:Yucca Mountain by AchilleTalon · · Score: 2

      This one should be mod up. The author is really telling things as they are. Don't even think about moving this stuff around, this would be the most dangerous move ever made in the entire humanity's life. It would be different for solid waste, but no way to move nuclear waste in liquid form and even less in this quantity. The more you have to move the most you may incure an accident and a spill. It would even become a target for terrorist minds to provoke such an accident.

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
  3. Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... for the next 240,000 years, regardless.

    1. Re:Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by peon_a-z,A-Z,0-9$_+! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      LWRs produce plutonium as a byproduct.

      ...and then this Plutonium is contained within the Spent Nuclear Fuel on-site until another Yucca Mountain proposal goes through or we recycle the material.

      Hanford's original purpose was solely to produce weapons grade Plutonium (different than a small amount of Plutonium in spent fuel) for use in the weapons program. The resulting waste was stored in these canisters which are being mentioned in the article. Just because two different actions of man utilize the same resource does not mean that their intentions are identical.

      If you have any more confusion relating Nuclear Weapons to Nuclear Power as it pertains to this article post below or perhaps read the Hanford article on Wikipedia to learn some of what I just said and more Hanford Site: Wikipedia

    2. Re:Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 2

      The material doesn't go away just because you move it along. A shell game is not the same as elimination.

    3. Re:Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by peon_a-z,A-Z,0-9$_+! · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Another one-sentence post, somehow instantly modded up.

      Anyways, I'll bite.

      What makes you want to get rid of this material? Plutonium, sure it has a long half-life, but is that a bad thing? As a transuranic artificial element, Plutonium is one of the most expensive materials on Earth primarily in the fact that you can't put a price on it in many cases. So now you may ask, "So what if it costs a lot. Things can cost a lot and not be useful."

      How excited were you and the rest of this Slashdot community when the Mars Rover Curiosity began is successful exploration a few months back? This piece of science and engineering happens to run off of a "Plutonium battery" if you will Curiosity, called an RTG RTG Explanation

      O.K. so now you may ask "Great, we don't actually WANT to get rid of Plutonium, but what about all those other nasty chemicals? Surely they validate my unfounded convictions that I'm espousing with somehow successfully modded posts?"

      Well, actually, we have answers for that too, it just so happens they have largely been illegal in the United States for much of the time since their invention. As a leader in the Nuclear Industry at its birth, the United States outlawed reprocessing with the thinking that other countries would follow suit. As history stands, this was not the case, and instead of "storing" things like we politically decided to do in the mid-seventies we could easily reprocess them based upon one of the many methods depending on the situation Nuclear Reprocessing.

      So, what's the real challenge, you ask? It's convincing uneducated people about the science ACTUALLY behind everything Nuclear such that they don't hold uneducated convictions such as yourself and end actual technological progress.

    4. Re:Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by Rambo+Tribble · · Score: 2

      The only point I was wishing to make was simply that once the genie is out of the bottle, you're committed. That's true whether it's handguns, fracking or nuclear power; there will be consequences and those selling the product will attempt to obscure tradeoffs with a "win-win" marketing ploy. The nuclear industry is one that has long been writing checks the public has had to cover, as your posts backhandedly expose.

      John Tyndall demonstrated the effect on energy absorption gas composition had, some 152 years ago. It took until a few decades ago for anyone to put together what that might mean for the climate vis-a-vis human activities. With a track record like that, science and scientists would be wise not to trumpet the infallability of their judgment.

    5. Re:Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by tqk · · Score: 2

      How is this modded down?

      Not to diss /., but pretty much all of us know there is a large population of ignorant (meant in the nicest way; honest) people inhabiting the place, just like the rest of our little bit of the Universe. I've been watching this slow-mo trainwreck (Hanford) for more than two decades, intently watched the Yucca Mountain comedy show, and am still amazed that so little progress has been made in either in all that time.

      This's how the USA works these days. This ain't the USA of 1941 or the '50s. Damn, I feel old.

      --
      "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
    6. Re:Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by nojayuk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Different kinds of plutonium -- Pu-238 is made in special isotope reactors by exposing Neptunium targets to a neutron flux and this is the isotope that is used in radiotethermal generators (RTGs) as carried by the Curiosity rover, the Cassini probe, the Voyager probes etc. It has a short halflife (87 years) and emits a lot of decay heat but only releases alpha radiation making it easy to shield.

      Power reactors produce Pu-239 and Pu-240 by adding neutrons to U-238 which makes up 95% plus of fresh nuclear fuel rods. Most of the Pu produced this way is fissioned during the fuel burn cycle but there's always some left when refuelling is carried out. Reprocessing of fuel allows this Pu to be removed and/or recycled into MOX (Mixed Oxide) fuel elements along with fresh U-235.

      Reprocessing of power station fuel was thought to be a nuclear weapons proliferation danger until it was realised that regular light-water reactor designs, the most common power generating choice, produced fuel hopelessly contaminated with Pu-240 which caused any attempt to build a weapon to be so problematic that it was simpler for any nation wanting nukes to develop separate non-power reactor facilities to produce purer forms of Pu-239 by short-cycle exposure of U-238 metal to neutrons.

      The reprocessing ban in the States was overturned by the Reagan administration, I believe but it's a very expensive process to carry out and freshly-mined uranium is very cheap. The growing costs of storage may encourage the US to take up reprocessing in the future, to deal with the Hanford mess if nothing else, since reprocessing reduces the volume of actual waste considerably -- a reactor refuelling operation usually involves a hundred tonnes of fuel elements but less than a tonne of that will be actual waste actinides after storage for a couple of years in a spent fuel pool to allow the more active and dangerous short-halflife materials to decay away. Anyone thinking of investing a few billion in a reprocessing plant has to consider that a future administration might arbitrarily reinstate the Carter-era reprocessing ban. Other nations such as France, Russia, Britain and Japan which reprocess fuel are more stable politically speaking and so can commit to long-term planning for this sort of operation.

    7. Re:Nuclear Power, here to stay ... by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 2

      Nuclear power can theoretically become a nuclear weapon. Sadly, the reverse is not true.

      Actually, there have been proposals to use smallish nuclear weapons to super-heat a giant underground reservoir to super-heated steam, using that to run a power-plant. You can (in theory) set it up so the shockwave is absorbed before it reaches the containment walls.

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
  4. Addie the Atom Says... by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Clean, safe and .too cheap to meter!"

    Is there any reason why we shouldn't reduce our current nuclear arsenal to something less than 1000 warheads, instead of replacing them with new ones? Can anyone think of a plausible situation where we would need 1000 nuclear warheads?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Addie the Atom Says... by peragrin · · Score: 2

      when the evil space aliens come we need more than just 1000 nukes to blow up their giant space ships

      Seriously though Yucca mountian was a new design facility for long term storage, not the temporary storage that currently exists

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re:Addie the Atom Says... by c0lo · · Score: 2

      when the evil space aliens come we need more than just 1000 nukes to blow up their giant space ships

      Seriously though... (grin)... for evil aliens, we know Slim Whitman is enough (unless RIAA sends a C&D/DMCA take down letter). The only use for them would be to hit asteroids, with no space shuttles and Bruce Willis close to the retirement, they are useless.

      --
      Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
    3. Re:Addie the Atom Says... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      You need enough that you won't need to use them. The world is fairly peaceful right now - the old threat of Russia dimmed, China seems intent on ecodenomic success rather than military conquest for their future, and any other nuclear power the US is on generally good terms with. But you can't be sure that'll stay forever. What'll happen if, in ten years, a Russian president comes to power on an anti-west platform, calling for a return to the glory days? Or if North Korea gets nuclear weapons? If that happens, the only thing protecting the US from attack is the assurance that if anyone is dumb enough to nuke one of their cities, they are ready to hit back at the attacker so hard their ashes will glow in the dark. Maintaining peace by the threat of overwhelming firepower isn't exactly the most tactful of solutions, but it seems to work. Regional conflicts have abounded since the invention of nuclear weapons, but no-one is foolish enough to start World War 3.

    4. Re:Addie the Atom Says... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You do realize that quote was in reference to a fusion project, not fission. I know Harry Shearer doesn't, I'd hope you take the time to learn a little something.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Too_cheap_to_meter

      Oh, and electricity production does not necessarily lead to nuclear warheads.

    5. Re:Addie the Atom Says... by nojayuk · · Score: 2

      The "too cheap to meter" phrase was used by opponents of nuclear power, not proponents -- after all it didn't apply to fission power plants.

      Nuclear power is very cost-competitive with the cheapest coal-fired power stations but they need a big wadge of cash up front to build them. Over the expected 60-year lifespan of modern GenIII designs at 90% operational availability the electricity they generate will cost about 4 to 5 cents/kWh including reactor construction, fuel production, fuel waste handling, operation, refurbishment and eventual decommissioning. An equivalent coal-fired plant can match that price per kWh at the cost of about 500 million tonnes of CO2 being dumped into the atmosphere over the same time period.

    6. Re:Addie the Atom Says... by sjames · · Score: 2

      Actually, due to ouir improved technology fro delivering the nukes in teh event of war, we have more than we will ever need now. Once you convert the enemy to a field of glass, more nukes don't matter.

    7. Re:Addie the Atom Says... by lennier · · Score: 2

      A minor nuclear war with each country using 50 Hiroshima-sized atom bombs as airbursts on urban areas could produce climate change unprecedented in recorded human history. A nuclear war between the United States and Russia today could produce nuclear winter, with temperatures plunging below freezing in the summer in major agricultural regions,

      So what you're saying is, science has solved the Global Warming problem? Excellent thinking from our boys in the white coats! Huzzah!

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  5. Reframing... by Mad_Rain · · Score: 2

    The Hanford cleanup project has been one of the most expensive American projects for nuclear cleanup. Plans are in place to create a treatment plant to turn the hazardous material into less hazardous glass (proposed to cost $13.4 billion), but for now officials are trying just to stop the leaking from the corroded tanks.

    Don't think of it as a nuclear waste clean-up project, environmental fiasco, or other government boondoggle. Consider it a gift of a $13.4 billion dollar jobs program. ;-) (one with reeeeeally high stakes if it's screwed up).

    --
    "What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
  6. Hanford and Modern Nuclear Power by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 2

    There is no relationship (other than historical) between the manufacturing processes and waste at Hanford, and modern nuclear power plants .

    Indeed the problems in Japan would certainly be almost impossible with current designs.

    --
    If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    1. Re:Hanford and Modern Nuclear Power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Indeed the problems in Japan would certainly be almost impossible with current designs.

      We should really deal with the problems at hand rather than espouse the virtues of things that do not yet exist. In fact, a non-negligible percentage of currently operating nuke plants in the US absolutely could suffer a catastrophic disaster like Fukushima –not from tsunami, but from earthquake or perhaps terrorism, and in a similar fashion (if the plant loses power and it isn't restored before the batteries die, they'll experience the same form of meltdown).

      Please come up with a safe solution for current problems, and cease the handwaving dismissal of these problems because more modern on the drawing board designs won't have the same flaws. Building a plant that can't melt down like Fukishima does NOTHING to fix the damage done by Fukushima or the very real possibility of a Fukushima-scale accident occurring at currently operating plants.

  7. Re:Thanks Harry! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Harry did the right thing. Yucca mountain was one of several sites being evaluated for desirable geological characteristics since the early 90's...one of 3 I think.
    The original plan was that one of the 3 sites would be chosen based solely on technical merits however that was wishful thinking and in the end Yucca mountain was chosen because the politician from the other more populated states successfully shutdown those options because they of course do not want nuclear waste stored in their "back yards". So Yucca mountain is a place that nuclear waste *could* be stored...but there is nothing better about it than any where else. In fact Yucca mountain has seen several earth quakes since they started studying the site and they have also found a relatively high water table so there are probably many better places. The only benefit that Yucca mountain had was that was politically easier to force it on the people of Nevada than it was other places. The best place to store nuclear waste is at its source (so you dont transport it) and in properly maintained tanks. They have failed to maintain these Hanford tanks just as easily as they could fail to maintain Yucca mountains' facilities.

  8. My understanding by Scarred+Intellect · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Talking with the guys that do this at a job fair.

    First, what could take so freaking long to clean stuff up? "Stuff you don't understand." Right, bureaucracy, nothing else.

    Anyway, the waste from Hanford was stored in Single-Shelled Tanks (SSTs), until they later started storing it in Double-Shelled Tanks (DST's). The SST's are leaking, we know this, so this is not news. What's currently being done is pumping the waste from the leaking SST's into the DST's and cleaning the SST's. They do this because the vitrification plant is not built yet.

    They're out of DST's. So now they have to decide whether to build more DST's or expedite the vit plant. Basically a few million dollars now, a few billion dollars now, or a few million dollars now AND a few billion dollars later.

    I got to school at the WSU campus nearby, and this is all I've been able to get someone to tell me. Correct me if I'm wrong. I probably am.

    Oh. Right. Safety. This stuff's NASTY. That's been holding it up for over 20 years.

  9. Unsolvable problem by Lars+-1 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The nuclear waste problem was the biggest driver for germany's nuclear exit decision, for 30 years this was discussed and determined to be basically unsolvable. (The incident in japan led to a re-think of the exit-of-the-exit decision, but the doubts about waste handling had been there at all times).

    To me, this is nuclear's biggest threat, and whenever I see discussions on slashdot this does not really seem to be an issue to US citizens at all. Why is this the case? Are these problems properly addressed in school and media? In germany, we have constantly very critical journalism regarding nuclear waste disposal, as we also have a site where waste is leaking and this proves to be a huge and expensive problem. Generally, storing waste for 10.000 years in a safe manner is not considered to be possible. (And think about the costs which occur in those timelines).

    When reading slashdot, I always get the impression that people still think nuclear has a future, and that we simply have not got the right technology in place yet. To me, nuclear has been a dead end for years, and its only a matter of time that everyone needs to switch to renewables (which would happen in 20 years max). Is nuclear really considered as a real option by the general US population? Are the implications properly educated? Total costs of waste disposal and storage and the risks which remain?

    Regards,
    Lars

    1. Re:Unsolvable problem by CMontgomery · · Score: 2

      I imagine the main reason for the US liking nuclear power more is that the US is much larger than Germany. We have lots of very open spaces to store material. The Yucca Mountain project was an unfortunate failure (nearly from the start), but in America we have the area to put bad material in the middle of nowhere. To me at least it seems that will only be necessary for a few decades until we get new plants that can run on old waste. As long as the waste is dangerous it still has energy we can use. I am counting on the fact that new techniques will become available in 100 years or so to harvest the energy of the nuclear waste until it becomes something more manageable. Something that we can throw under another mountain in the middle of Arizona for 50 years and call it good.

      But more importantly is we need nuclear energy. We are very dispersed around the country, wiki says Germany is at 234 people/km^2 while US is at 34 people/km^2. We can't use wind or hydroelectric for our baseline energy, it can surely supplement a good portion of what we need. But 315 million people need energy over almost every climate-zone possible. We need high localized energy that can be transmitted long distances.

      I think to have taken nuclear energy so far and leave it with only one problem left to solve is not right. There's only one thing left to figure out, and we get awesome amounts of energy from right here in the US.

    2. Re:Unsolvable problem by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not at all unsolvable. The waste we're talking about here is not nuclear power leftovers and is not the result of modern methods.

      All of this is leftovers from weapons manufacturing. It is the problem it is because at the time, getting the weapons made at any cost was the priority. Nobody at the time cared how much waste it produced or in what form.

      A responsible power program will take the 'spent' fuel and reprocess it into new fuel rods (95% of the material) and a highly radioactive waste in solid form (the other 5%) that will decay in 200-500 years. At that point, it will be less radioactive than the uranium ore that was dug out of the environment in the first place.

      We could build several modern reactors and power them on nothing but the existing stockpile of not really spent fuel we have sitting in dry storage. The result would be a net reduction of the amount of nuclear waste in the world.

    3. Re:Unsolvable problem by sjames · · Score: 2

      Like most technically solvable problems that don't get solved, the problem is political.

      France is quite actively doing the "impossible" right now. The output of 2/3 of one of their reactors is enough to handle the fuel cycle for all of their reactors plus the reprocessing they do for other countries.

      Again, Hanford was a weapons facility that had no concerns for such "minor details" as safe disposal or sustainability. It's entire purpose was to make sure we had more bombs than the USSR. Meanwhile, most things that touch the stream become only slightly radioactive and end up harmless in just a few years. Meanwhile, you take the part that would have lasted 10,000 years and use it as fuel for the reactor where it is converted to a bunch of valuable energy and waste that will decay in at most 500 years. I would call cutting 9,500 years off of the required storage time a significant reduction, why don't you?

  10. Killing people by the Millions by NReitzel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We shouldn't take Hanford as a prototypical example of "The Nuclear Industry."

    Remember, the people who planned, funded, and ran Hanford were in the process of building devices -designed- to kill people by the millions, and designed to be used in circumstances when people, by the millions, were dying here in the USA. Perhaps we should not forgive them, but we should understand their attitude that poisoning a few workers or a few thousand fish was just not on their radar. This was, in their understanding, war.

    What Hanford was, and is, is a very brutal view of the simple fact that in war, lots of people are hurt, maimed, killed, poisoned, burned, and other forms of mayhem committed upon them.

    Now, we as a nation and as a world, have the responsibility and opportunity to clean up our own mess, a mess that was caused by people who sincerely believed that a philosophical point and an economic model was worth murdering countless people. If nothing else, we need to learn from these experiences. We need to not forget that matters of ideology and economic theory do not count as much as living, suffering humans.

    --

    Don't take life too seriously; it isn't permanent.

    1. Re:Killing people by the Millions by lennier · · Score: 2

      We shouldn't take Hanford as a prototypical example of "The Nuclear Industry."

      Um, actually, since Hanford was literally a nuclear prototyping facility, I'd say it's about as prototypical an example as you can get...

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  11. Civilian Versus Military by anorlunda · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I read once that 98% of America's high level nuclear waste comes from military programs.

    Why is it then that 98% of the hot air voiced is about civilian uses?

  12. WHY THE HANFORD MATTERS TO FISHERMEN by ankhank · · Score: 2

    http://www.pcffa.org/fn-sep02.htm
    2002: Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen’s Associations