HP Continuing To Flee Windows Reservation With Android Tablet

UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by rs1n · 2013-02-25 11:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

I cannot help but wonder if UEFI is now Microsoft's backup plan to force casual PC users into Windows 8. There seems to be some resistance (the degree of which is debatable) to Windows 8 adoption. Perhaps users will, in the end, still be forced into Windows 8 if they lack the know-how to use alternate OSes?

Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 11:19 · Score: 4, Insightful

It would only work by bribing all the vendors... and that would likely cost more than even MS pockets can stand.
Besides, MS has already insulted the Asian manufacturers, so why would they go out of their way to help MS?
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by exomondo · 2013-02-25 11:48 · Score: 3, Insightful

I cannot help but wonder if UEFI is now Microsoft's backup plan to force casual PC users into Windows 8. There seems to be some resistance (the degree of which is debatable) to Windows 8 adoption. Perhaps users will, in the end, still be forced into Windows 8 if they lack the know-how to use alternate OSes?
How is that be any different to the way things are now?
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by RabidReindeer · 2013-02-25 12:12 · Score: 3, Insightful

I cannot help but wonder if UEFI is now Microsoft's backup plan to force casual PC users into Windows 8. There seems to be some resistance (the degree of which is debatable) to Windows 8 adoption. Perhaps users will, in the end, still be forced into Windows 8 if they lack the know-how to use alternate OSes?
How is that be any different to the way things are now?
More telling is the fact that to the casual observer (e.g. drooling idiot user), Windows 8 already is an "alternate OS". Which sort of leaves them between a rock and a hard place.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by unrtst · 2013-02-25 12:53 · Score: 2

It would only work by bribing all the vendors...

Or just enough of the big ones that production and support costs for the alternatives fail to meet similar economies of scale.

and that would likely cost more than even MS pockets can stand.
Wrong. It essentially costs them zero. They just need to offer a discount on the Windows OS licenses (and/or other software/hardware/etc). Even if said discount doesn't seem to matter, it does matter in relation to the competition. It's not like we don't have evidence that this has happened in the past, and there's even a better chance of it happening now since they're not as much of a "monopoly".

Besides, MS has already insulted the Asian manufacturers, so why would they go out of their way to help MS?
Because it's what they're being paid to do. How did they insult them anyway, and when has that mattered as long as they're the ones making everything and getting paid for it?
FWIW, I don't think UEFI (actually, restricted boot, aka secure boot) changes much as far as the common users ability to install an alternate OS... most people don't care enough to learn how, even without anything in their way. There appear to be ways around it in all cases so far AFAICT. That said, I think it WILL have an effect on the number of users running dual boot, and maybe even some that planned on running an alternate OS almost all the time. Every little annoyance when not doing as you are told will make it less interesting to do otherwise; and making sure that it's still *possible*, and even providing docs to do so, will mean that people will be less likely to actively oppose it.
Imagine the number of times you might need to boot up a netbook-ish thing to check something really quick. If it takes an extra 30 seconds to boot the alternate OS, you'll probably do the path of least resistance (NOTE: this is in reference to the Chromebooks, but it's a similar issue, and all they seem to say is, "if you don't like it, don't buy it", while at the same time saying their commitment is to think of the user first, which is BS).
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by exomondo · 2013-02-25 13:09 · Score: 1

That said, I think it WILL have an effect on the number of users running dual boot, and maybe even some that planned on running an alternate OS almost all the time.
Why would it impact them in that case?
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by unrtst · 2013-02-25 14:29 · Score: 1

That said, I think it WILL have an effect on the number of users running dual boot, and maybe even some that planned on running an alternate OS almost all the time.
Why would it impact them in that case?
Because they're the ones that aren't 100% committed to Linux or an alternate OS, and they are not only OK with running windows, but choose to do so often enough that they keep it available in dual boot. If restricted boot makes it more difficult to add linux in there as dual boot, it's very very likely to turn off at least some of those people. How many, I don't know.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by exomondo · 2013-02-25 14:56 · Score: 1

Because they're the ones that aren't 100% committed to Linux or an alternate OS, and they are not only OK with running windows, but choose to do so often enough that they keep it available in dual boot.
So? It doesn't matter that people aren't '100% committed to an alternative OS', in fact the best scenario is that they not be 100% committed to any OS.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by Sir_Sri · 2013-02-25 19:36 · Score: 1

If it's worth knowing people will know.
And people know how to install windows 7 on UEFI enabled devices. All of the manufacturers saw windows 8 as a potential train wreck for the industry, and saw Surface as direct competition to themselves, and they want to hedge their bets. If windows 8 had been a huge hit with consumers they would have sucked it up and sold devices competing with MS that they weren't happy with. But Windows 8 is doing relatively poorly it seems like, so all of these back up plans are coming out the door. Especially when you've got an order for 10 million touch screen panels, you need to put something on them, and customers don't want windows 8.
Disabling UEFI isn't magic. It's not even hard. Most users don't want to (and probably shouldn't) install their own OS anyway, they ask someone who knows how to do it, or they follow a guide on line that's good enough. UEFI is irrelevant in the marketplace. On the PS4 and Xbox 3 it might matter, as they'll both use something similar to outright block other operating systems than approved ones, but that's a different business anyway.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by symbolset · 2013-02-25 20:28 · Score: 1

That is the plan. It would have been a good plan six years ago. Now it just makes the flag logo a warning: this is stuff that doesn't play well with your other stuff. Sort of like the Sony logo, come to think of it.

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Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by symbolset · 2013-02-25 20:38 · Score: 2

The playing one against the other thing used to work. The thing is that making Android devices turns profits for the OEMs lately and making Windows client devices hasn't for the last 10 years. The WPC market has been Dellified, raced to the bottom, and there it will stay. Microsoft is fine with their OEMs cutting each others' throats until they grow too few or one grows too strong, and then they nurture some contenders and hold calls on the dominant one so that the fight will stay fresh and even and retain their dominion over the combatants.
Now that we don't have to play in their colluseum by their rules there will be change. For a little while at least there will be profits on average in the new mobile realm. In the meantime there will be progress so swift it will be awesome to behold, as the new feature drives more profit. There will be more choices as vendors seek the mix of features that deliver the most profit amongst trillions of possibilities.

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Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by symbolset · 2013-02-25 20:47 · Score: 2

How is that be any different to the way things are now?
Before UEFI and SecureBoot if a business wanted to load an alternative OS on their client PCs it was a simple matter. It has become more difficult. The increase in difficulty is a deliberate attempt to prevent migration. Just the fact that a software vendor is employing its market leverage to make migrating off of their software nigh impossible through technological means should blacklist them from consideration in the enterprise environment. Working with someone who does that is not in your best interest. They want to own you, your data, and your future and if you build on that you will live in their chains for all subsequent generations.
This is a boat to not get on. It leads to the New World, but you'll be farming cotton.

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Help stamp out iliturcy.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by unrtst · 2013-02-25 21:09 · Score: 1

So? What point are you trying to make?
My point was that Microsoft can "afford" (even if it isn't done with a cash transaction) to manipulate the market in favor of a restricted boot that favors their OS. Add to this that they have done similar things in the past. Add to this that restricted boot significantly increases the difficulty / technical expertise need to install an alternate OS (including an older release of windows, which was more-or-less the GGGGP's point).
Going on the premise that:
* a certain activity has a certain barrier to entry (be it technical know how, commitment to doing it, time, effort, money, etc)
* there are people on both sides of that barrier, and some sit on the fence so-to-speak
* restricted boot moves the barrier, making it more difficult / requiring more time / whatever
Then it is likely that:
* Fewer people will be crossing that barrier.
rs1n said it well, "Perhaps users will, in the end, still be forced into Windows 8 if they lack the know-how to use alternate OSes?"
For those that were barely able to get dual booting working before on a standard BIOS, restricted/secure boot may be a big enough hurdle to dissuade them from doing so on these new machines.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 05:05 · Score: 0

I haven't seen a Linux distro in the last ten years that wasn't easier to install dual-boot than Windows was alone. The real barrier to entry to Linux is user ignorance: They don't even know Linux exists, or they know it exists and have been lied to about how hard it is to use, how feature-poor it is, how you have to use a command line, etc. It pisses me off when I see those lies in /. comments and when I'm modding, the lies get "troll". Most distos are far easier than Windows, all distros contain many features Windows lacks, and Windows is better than it used to be but is still way behind other OSes in stability*.
But at any rate, this is a lot worse than you think. Linux install disks ask you up front if you want to use the whole drive or just the empty space. If MS gets their evil, lying way, the lie that Linux is hard to install may become true.
* I'm finally going to put kubuntu on that two year old notebook, Windows started getting flaky the other day. A reboot seemed to help, but my daughter has an identical notebook and it sems bricked -- I think she was trying to reinstall Windows, every time you start it it comes out of hibernation and says "windows is starting services" but nothing happens, I can't get in to the bios, and I can't get it to boot from a thumb drive. So after two years of procrastination, I'm putting Linux on mine. Windows was getting slow from the virus updates and ever-growing registry, anyway. And I'm sick of rebooting every Patch Tuesday.
Microsoft could kill Linux by making an OS that doesn't suck. Face it, nobody switches to Linux until they're fed up with Windows.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by exomondo · 2013-02-26 09:31 · Score: 1

Before UEFI and SecureBoot if a business wanted to load an alternative OS on their client PCs it was a simple matter.
It still is a simple matter, even if you have a UEFI machine and it's windows 8 certified and it doesn't have any keys other than microsofts and you don't want to use a bootloader signed with microsoft's key and you don't want to sign it with your own key and install that then it is still trivial to turn secureboot off.
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by exomondo · 2013-02-26 09:37 · Score: 1

So? What point are you trying to make?
My point is it won't affect the number of users wanting to run dual boot, they'll either turn secureboot off or use a signed bootloader.

Add to this that restricted boot significantly increases the difficulty / technical expertise need to install an alternate OS (including an older release of windows, which was more-or-less the GGGGP's point).
How exactly? Every mainstream distro will ship with a signed bootloader or instructions to turn off secureboot (one bios switch), that's hardly 'significantly more difficult', in fact that step is a whole lot more trivial than the existing process of creating a bootable USB disk and setting the PC to boot from that. Do you also complain about the 'significant difficulty' in the one switch required to allow Android to install untrusted source applications?
Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by symbolset · 2013-03-02 19:26 · Score: 1

This dilemma is truly diabolical. The guy who designed it is due a bonus. UEFI puts us on a dilemma with two horns: We can accept it and the vendor lockin it demands, complete with its historical poor security record and the lack of other options. That's one horn. We can disable it and ever after be subject to the question why we disabled a credible cure for Advanced Persistent Threats. That's the other horn.
The right answer is "migrate to mobile" where we don't have to have these issues and have considerable freedom of action that doesn't involve our software vendor putting us in indefensible positions.

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Re:UEFI and Windows 8 strategy by exomondo · 2013-03-02 21:27 · Score: 1

How is that position 'indefensible'? It's exactly the same position we are in now - and have been in for decades - with existing BIOS systems. And I'm not sure what vendor lockin you are talking about, as i said it's only even any kind of an issue if you have UEFI hardware and it's windows 8 certified and it doesn't have any keys other than microsoft's installed and you don't want to use a bootloader signed with microsoft's key and you don't want to sign it with your own key and you don't want to turn secureboot off. You can install any key for any os you want or you can turn it off...what more do you want?

I would hardly call it Fleeing!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 11:12 · Score: 5, Insightful

Sensationalism at its best. Almost everyone makes android tablets. I am no MS fan but I am even less a fan of sensationalism just to get some people to read your bogus stories. Just read the title and felt I had to comment.

Re:I would hardly call it Fleeing!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 11:43 · Score: 5, Funny

Sensationalism? And duplicate articles? In MY slashdot?
It's more likely than you think!
Re:I would hardly call it Fleeing!! by jedidiah · 2013-02-25 14:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

> Sensationalism at its best. Almost everyone makes android tablets.
So you're basically agreeing with the "sensationalist" headline.
PC vendors are finally straying from Microsoft.
It doesn't matter how you try to spin it. It still comes out the same. Microsoft's grip on consumers as computer users is waning. It took something that looks nothing like a PC, but it finally happened.

--
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re:I would hardly call it Fleeing!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 15:02 · Score: 0

So you're basically agreeing with the "sensationalist" headline.
PC vendors are finally straying from Microsoft.
I suppose english may not be your first language but straying != fleeing, using the latter where the former is far more appropriate most certainly is sensationalist.
Re:I would hardly call it Fleeing!! by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 15:19 · Score: 0

Agreed. They make it sound like HP isn't still churning our loads of real computers running windows.
Re:I would hardly call it Fleeing!! by Patch86 · 2013-02-25 20:18 · Score: 1

The phrasing is sensationalist and overt the top, but the point does still stand. HP is one of the biggest Windows shops there is. Microsoft now has not one but three OSs for touchscreen devices (Windows 8, Windows RT and Windows Phone). Instead of opting for one of these for their new tablet, HP went for Google's product instead.
That's hardly a vote of confidence in Windows 8/RT's ability to crack the tablet market. Like you say- "everyone" makes Android tablets- even the biggest Microsoft flag wavers.

Nice Google ad by PickyH3D · 2013-02-25 11:13 · Score: 1, Informative

The summary even went as far as breaking down what it means to be a Chrome OS-running device while attacking Microsoft at both the start and end of it.

Re:Nice Google ad by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 11:24 · Score: 0

Plus they used the phrase "Don't get Microshafted" a lot.

Surprising? by exomondo · 2013-02-25 11:14 · Score: 3, Insightful

This is hardly surprising, with Android smartphones, tablets and chromebooks as well as Google web apps if you've invested in that Google platform - and so many people have - then you probably don't *need* Windows. Not to mention creating a Windows RT tablet doesn't exactly do much in terms of integration for existing Windows customers (that is non-Metro UI users).

Re:Surprising? by Teresita · 2013-02-25 11:25 · Score: 1

Not so much a Microsoft reservation as a zoo with all the Windows wide open, but the animals stay right where they are because isn't that what they're supposed to do?
Re: Surprising? by nashv · 2013-02-25 13:24 · Score: 1

Also, why should I go hunt when all the food is coming to me anyway.
Not everyone on Windows is a drooling idiot, some people just have other priorities.

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Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
Re: Surprising? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 23:13 · Score: 0

Also, why should I go hunt when all the food is coming to me anyway.
Not everyone on Windows is a drooling idiot, some people just have other priorities.
(wipes drool from chin...)
Re:Surprising? by RaceProUK · 2013-02-26 00:42 · Score: 1

This is hardly surprising, with Android smartphones, tablets and chromebooks as well as Google web apps if you've invested in that Google platform - and so many people have - then you probably don't *need* Windows. Not to mention creating a Windows RT tablet doesn't exactly do much in terms of integration for existing Windows customers (that is non-Metro UI users).
Looks like some MS employees have modpoints - this is about as far from Troll as its possible to get.

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No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Re:Surprising? by tehcyder · 2013-02-26 01:01 · Score: 1

This is hardly surprising, with Android smartphones, tablets and chromebooks as well as Google web apps if you've invested in that Google platform - and so many people have - then you probably don't *need* Windows.
I have "invested" in Android (phone and tablet) but I most certainly need a proper OS to do real work on, whether it's Windows, Linux or OSX.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:Surprising? by exomondo · 2013-02-26 09:38 · Score: 1

I have "invested" in Android (phone and tablet) but I most certainly need a proper OS to do real work on, whether it's Windows, Linux or OSX.
Yeah that's my point, many of those who are invested in the google platform can be OS agnostic as far as their desktop is concerned.

previous discussion by Trepidity · 2013-02-25 11:20 · Score: 2

It doesn't lead with the "fleeing windows" angle, but here is yesterday's /. discussion on the tablet, which I'm going to guess covers a lot of what we're about to discuss here...

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10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10

Sensationalism in /. by Taco+Cowboy · 2013-02-25 11:26 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sensationalism at its best. Almost everyone makes android tablets. I am no MS fan but I am even less a fan of sensationalism just to get some people to read your bogus stories

As a long time visitor to /. I have to concur with what you have said

What is the most unfortunate is that the editors seem to agree with this type of unhealthy yellow-journalism

HP is merely making another attempt into producing Android tablets. It's only a business decision, that's all !

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Re:Sensationalism in /. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 00:59 · Score: 0

What is the most unfortunate is that the editors seem to agree with this type of unhealthy yellow-journalism
Dice Holdings hired editors? Slashdot has never had "editors" before, just submission queue approval monkeys that don't even read their own site.

Win 8 shows decline of the WinTel fiat by swschrad · 2013-02-25 11:26 · Score: 2, Interesting

fact is, you have seriously different needs and input technologies between desktop and mobile systems. Win 8 attempts to make them into one system. I can't reach over my desk to touch a screen that doesn't have touch capability anyway, and Live Tiles just clutter things up. Microsoft insists on directing the user to the MS vision, when we liked earlier versions of Windows because we could make the machine "ours". that vision gets in the way. which is why there are Android and IOS/MacOS alternatives gaining on the Redmondonians every hour.

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a drowning man will grasp at straws by lophophore · 2013-02-25 11:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

No offense to Google; I like their products.

HP is going to need to do a lot more than market a Chromebook and an Android tablet to get out of the ditch.

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there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't

Re:a drowning man will grasp at straws by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:21 · Score: 0

A 7-inch tablet for third of the price of a similar Apple product can do just that, assuming this stuff actually works and works well.
Re:a drowning man will grasp at straws by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 14:29 · Score: 1

A 7-inch tablet for third of the price of a similar Apple product can do just that, assuming this stuff actually works and works well.
HP's history tells us it won't work well though. It will have made sacrifices in performance/cost savings/functionality in order to try and enter the market, rather than make something truly different or desirable they will have done the equivalent of a cheap chinese knockoff. time will tell.
Re:a drowning man will grasp at straws by lophophore · 2013-02-26 04:16 · Score: 1

yeah, but how attractive will HP's tablet be at $20 less than the "reference" platform -- Google/Asus Nexus 7 -- which has a considerably faster processor?

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there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
Re:a drowning man will grasp at straws by unixisc · 2013-02-26 06:54 · Score: 1

Besides, why would anybody who remembers the TouchPad fiasco bother to buy a tablet from HP? Be it Windows 8 or Android? LG is a better bet w/ WebOS

Not surprised. by tom229 · 2013-02-25 11:29 · Score: 4, Informative

My girlfriend recently decided to trade in her old boat anchor of a laptop for a new device. Her budget wasn't high (around $500). She came to me for advice and I had an extraordinarily difficult time finding an affordable, light, and fast x86 device. She also wanted a keyboard and trackpad so we ended up settling on an Asus Transformer TF300T. She couldn't be happier. It can do all the things she's interested in doing (facebook, email, pinterest, skype, etc), its fast, easy to use, and fits in her purse.

I think this is going to be the story going forward for the casual home user. Why buy a bulky laptop or expensive ultrabook? A tablet transformer has a more convenient form factor at all times, and content consumption operating systems like Android are more friendly to the end user.

I don't see high end gaming or content creation devices going this way any time soon, but the days of the casual home use desktop are coming to an end.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Re:Not surprised. by Bearhouse · 2013-02-25 11:38 · Score: 4, Insightful

Mod up. Now, if Libreoffice or, more probably Google, could get "good enough" compatibility with MS Office docs, (including Excel macros, weird PPT presentations and fonts) then this could really go somewhere...
Re:Not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 11:51 · Score: 0

Mod up. Now, if Libreoffice or, more probably Google, could get "good enough" compatibility with MS Office docs, (including Excel macros, weird PPT presentations and fonts) then this could really go somewhere...
It's been a very long time since I've experienced any compatibility-related problems with OO.org; we've gone way past "good enough." I don't doubt your anecdotal evidence; I just offer my own to balance yours.
Re:Not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:04 · Score: 0

While Writer is very good the presentation comparability is sadly lacking especially if you have videos and other fancy content embedded. Not to mention there is very little compatibility with Excel macros, especially those that use win32 API calls as LibreOffice would have to integrate Wine to use them.
Re:Not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:27 · Score: 0

Excel macros that use win32 API calls?! The business using that $#!+ deserves to fail!
And probably will, as Microsoft leaves backwards compatibility in the past.
Re:Not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:33 · Score: 1

I bought a $500 laptop half a year ago, and had no such difficulties. $500 can easily get you a laptop with an i3 CPU, which is much faster than any tablet.
I guess it depends on your definition of light, though. For me, light is anything that I can throw into a backpack easily.
Re:Not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:36 · Score: 1

Sadly, your example shows the level of intellectual functioning of many people these days. Mindless consumers of content who rarely are able to produce any significant coherent writing whatsoever, because thats all these tablets and such are good for .
The only *mindless* consumers are those like you, with no imagination, unable to see beyond the shiny that marketers present them. So unthinking are you that you don't even realize the Transformer is more than just a touchscreen tablet, it actually includes a keyboard and touchpad, you can even use a mouse. For the rest of us we can see the only real difference is the underlying architecture, you can plug in a mouse and keyboard and function just as you would on any PC and be just as productive, hell i can even plug it into a large display too! The core device form-factor is irrelevant, if you can open your mind to actually *think* then you will be able to see that quite clearly, there is more to the tablet scene than just the iPad.
Re:Not surprised. by narcc · 2013-02-25 13:04 · Score: 1

Her budget wasn't high (around $500). She came to me for advice and I had an extraordinarily difficult time finding an affordable, light, and fast x86 device.
Wow, you must suck at buying computers.
$500 is more than enough for a great laptop for the "casual home user". Just an example, I picked up an Acer Aspire One 722 to replace my wife' work computer (She just needs internet, email, word, excel) 4GB of RAM, AMD C60 Deul-Core processor, 500GB hard drive -- for $230 dollars. (On Amazon, no less!) That's WAY more machine than the transformer -- and it's actually usable. For $500, I could have picked up an even better computer.
By buying the transformer, you paid more for less ... much less. I'm sorry that your friend listened to your crappy advice.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 13:48 · Score: 0

I've got one of these too. Another point is that people are creating content on devices, but they're using the camera on the back and editing that on the device. They're not typing away on a keyboard as much. For that, these devices are fine. They also boot up instantly, I don't think you can overstate the importance of that to the average user. Windows anything is just old school.
Re:Not surprised. by jedidiah · 2013-02-25 14:54 · Score: 1

I have never been exposed to such spreadsheets.
So it's really a non-problem for most people.
That's kind of the point. It just took the rise of tablets for people to finally realize it. Most people really don't need Microsoft's brand of WordPerfect style overkill. They never did really.

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A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Re:Not surprised. by wvmarle · 2013-02-25 18:39 · Score: 1

It could be a useful strategy for Google to help LibreOffice or one of its clones with that. And porting the whole thing to Android (which is probably much easier said than done).
Plus adding a better touch interface for use on Android.
Proper editing capabilities for Office documents is to me one of the only severe restrictions of Android at the moment. And is indeed what stopped me from considering non-x86 alternatives when getting a new netbook half year ago. The offerings were interesting, but the need of editing documents is key to me.
Re:Not surprised. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 19:24 · Score: 0

I think this is going to be the story going forward for the casual home user. Why buy a bulky laptop or expensive ultrabook? A tablet transformer has a more convenient form factor at all times, and content consumption operating systems like Android are more friendly to the end user.
Not exactly a controversial prediction that one... Microsoft read those tea leaves years ago, and so designed Surface RT just for your girlfriend.
Re:Not surprised. by stretch0611 · 2013-02-25 20:57 · Score: 1

I agree, for the majority of home use, a tablet will replace laptops and desktops.
A tablet is less expensive, more portable, and has a relatively lightweight OS. The smaller size combined with a camera that can be used as a simple scanner allows for a lot of added flexibility even for some business uses.
The biggest downfall is the lack of a physical keyboard. While this only has a minimal impact on people that are browsing content, it is a severe limitation on people that need to type a lot. (especially people that need to use a work processor or programmers editor.) I do have an original Asus Transformer (TF101) with the physical keyboard attachment, and while this works well for light typing, it is far from a true desktop replacement.
I suppose if tablets with full sized usb ports supporting real keyboards and mice become commonplace, the full fledged desktop/laptop market will have accelerated loses. However, there will always be at least a niche need for the power users. (and as a transformer owner, I know adding a mouse really does change the UI; it is not something that many developers account for making for a few moments of awkwardness.)
My tablet has allowed me to bring it instead of a full laptop in many cases and I love it. My mother has a smaller 7 inch tablet and the only time she uses her computer now is the few times she needs a word processor.
Tablets are already destroying the PC market. The only question is how long before they take over.

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Re:Not surprised. by tehcyder · 2013-02-26 01:39 · Score: 1

I have never been exposed to such spreadsheets.
That doesn't mean that they don't exist, nor that only idiots use them.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:Not surprised. by tehcyder · 2013-02-26 01:44 · Score: 1

I guess it depends on your definition of light, though. For me, light is anything that I can throw into a backpack easily.
It sounds like the Apple marketing department's definition of light/thin, i.e. something fractionally lighter/thinner than the competition whose lightness/thinness will totally transform your life from dull, plodding computer user into a breathtakingly attractive artist/musician/poet.

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To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
Re:Not surprised. by tom229 · 2013-02-26 06:23 · Score: 1

The aspire one 722 is the same bulky-ulgy-going-to-be-virus-ridden-and-god-awful-slow type of device she was trying to get away from. I don't know where you got a new one for $230 as they are on amazon for around $420 (the same price we paid for the transformer). Also, I don't typically like to purchase things blind so it would have to be available through a local retailer so I could try it out.
A quick look at the specs show that it's twice as heavy as the TF300T, nearly 3 times the cubic volume, and doesn't transform into a convenient tablet form for things like couch browsing.

I appreciate your humble criticism, but I think I'll stick with my recommendation.

--
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Re:Not surprised. by narcc · 2013-02-26 06:58 · Score: 1

I don't know what to tell you, that's what I paid for it last December. Maybe you need to learn how to shop around?
the same bulky-ulgy-going-to-be-virus-ridden-and-god-awful-slow type of device
It's neither bulky (it's smaller than most laptops) nor slow, nor virus ridden.
The tablet, on the other hand, is slower, has less RAM, can't run common software, and requires an expensive keyboard add-on. In short, it has FAR less utility AND is more expensive!
The point remains, however, that $500 is more than enough to buy an excellent computer, portable or otherwise, for the "casual home user". The fact that you had trouble finding a computer adequate for her needs within that budget tells me one thing: you suck at buying computers. That you bought a tablet instead of a real computer for a woman who needed to replacement is just baffling.

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Required reading for internet skeptics
Re:Not surprised. by marcosdumay · 2013-02-26 07:52 · Score: 1

I also brought a Transformer to replace my old laptop. Guess what, the TF-300 has a full size USB, and thus, can support a real mouse and keyboard. It also has an HDMI output for your real monitor.
The form-factor is excellent, the keyboard is well designed and feel right (it's easier to use than my old 14" laptop, and doesn't even supports my language - for english speakers it should be a breeze), it's way lighter than a normal laptop, and the battery lasts for an entire day. A desktop is better, but most laptops are not.
That said, Android is really a consuption OS. But the best part of it is that it is Linux, and you can put any userland you want on it once you root your device... And Asus publishes a tool for rooting it (with a disclaimer saying that warranty will be void).

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Rethinking email
Re:Not surprised. by tom229 · 2013-02-28 04:46 · Score: 1

A quick look at the specs show that it's twice as heavy as the TF300T, nearly 3 times the cubic volume, and doesn't transform into a convenient tablet form for things like couch browsing.
Simply re-stating your point in different ways while ignoring mine is not a good way to have an argument. This will be my last response.

--
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Re:Not surprised. by narcc · 2013-02-28 06:32 · Score: 1

What was your point? That buying an overpriced and under-powered computer is better than buying a more powerful computer at a lower pirce?
Sounds stupid to me. I'm really sorry that that woman had only you to turn to for advice.
Oh, I didn't ignore your post. Did you mean to respond to someone else?

--
Required reading for internet skeptics

addressing wrong problem by bloodhawk · 2013-02-25 11:35 · Score: 4, Insightful

HP's problem is not the OS (though that might not be helping), it is there damn ugly designs, crapware and bloatware that every device comes configured with making even the most expensive items feel like you are using a device from 10 years ago. It won't matter what direction they pick till they fix there core problem of not making machines for usability and performance.

Re:addressing wrong problem by blind+biker · 2013-02-25 12:17 · Score: 1

According to virtually all reviewers, the Slate 7 actually addresses the issue of "ugly designs". It is, in my opinion, a good looking tablet.

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"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
Re:addressing wrong problem by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 13:20 · Score: 0

And will it come jam packed with Shovelware like everything else they ship making it little more than a paperweight till you spend time cleaning it up?

Casual PC users by snadrus · 2013-02-25 11:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

That's an interesting term here. Guesses:
- Light-duty (email, read-heavy web): Best served by Chromebook & tablets:
They're cheaper & easier to maintain.

- Upgraders wanting things like before: Likely to defect to the above group.

- Businesses: Bound to their software, & likely can hold-out until next version
May try moving to HTML5 cloud software for less administration, but gain OS choices.

--
Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.

But not very far ... by jamesl · 2013-02-25 11:45 · Score: 1

Hewlett-Packard seems more determined than ever to flee the Windows reservation ...

Maybe so, but they don't want to get too far away.

"The new HP ENVY x2 PC gives you the power of two devices in one. A Windows 8 notebook with a bright, vivid HD Touch display. And a tablet that slides off for those times when you want to carry even less."
http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/envy-x2/overview.html?jumpid=hpr_r1002_usen_link1

As SemiAccurate said months ago by steveha · 2013-02-25 11:47 · Score: 5, Interesting

SemiAccurate reported that HP was very annoyed by the Microsoft Surface, was dropping any plans for "WART" devices ("Windows on ARM"), and would embrace Android.

http://semiaccurate.com/2012/06/29/hp-said-to-dump-microsoft-over-surface/

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lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely

It's also about what people want and don't want by erroneus · 2013-02-25 11:55 · Score: 5, Insightful

People want to keep using their computers, at the very least, in the way they have grown accustomed. Microsoft has a winner in the present day Windows 7. (Hilarious that I would even say that, but I did.) The last thing Microsoft should do right now is attempt to take that away from its customers and yet that's clearly Microsoft's aim.

People don't want change. They don't want it forced on them and yet if they want a new computer, guess what is most likely to come on it? And most of those people don't have the skill to put Windows 7 on it so they are pretty much stuck with whatever comes with it. So increasingly, they are resisting the need to even buy new computers. This doesn't sit well with computer sellers.

ASUS has shown the buying public is interested in tablets but they don't "need" Windows. The Google Nexus 7 has proven itself well. HP, a starving PC maker just wants a piece of that action. How long before Dell does the same? I know Dell has played in that field already... they inexplicably [my opinion] pulled out. Every attempt at supporting Linux was half-hearted enough to make me believe they did it to "prove" that Linux is not a viable alternative to Windows. Just a theory...

But Microsoft stopped caring long ago about what people want and what they don't want. They have demonstrated their contempt for the public numerous times. People have somewhere else to go now... and we are seeing them go.

Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by jader3rd · 2013-02-25 12:08 · Score: 2

People don't want change.
Exactly. Which is my most people will never touch cell phones, let along smart phone, and will keep happily using their landlines. They also hate change so much that they know that a computer will certainly never replace their typewriter. And ARM based tablets are so much change from everything they previously knew they, that not a single person would ever want one.
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by SEE · 2013-02-25 13:21 · Score: 4, Funny

It's not that people reject change. It's that Windows 8 on phones/tablets/netbooks is the equivalent of cramming a lobotomized MVS onto the original 8088-based IBM PC, while Windows 8 on PCs is like making a port of COMMAND.COM the shell on MVS.
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 15:34 · Score: 0

LOL. "People don't want change! That's why they are all going to switch to Android!"
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by wvmarle · 2013-02-25 18:52 · Score: 1

Well, as other repliers pointed out to you, people are not totally reluctant to change - if it adds something to the experience, if it is something totally different, allowing to do things they could not do before.
And another thing that should be added: change is OK if the new thing works at least as easy as the previous version. Example: people happily switch from WinXP to Win7, but not Win8. They also happily pick up a smart phone, as both Android and iOS operate very easily and mostly quite intuitively.
One thing that held back Linux for a long time was that you can not run Windows software. Well many people now have bitten that bullet and walk around with tablets, which suit their needs quite well. Except maybe for the lack of MS Office or an equivalent. Web browsing, e-mailing, watching videos, playing Angry Birds, it all works just fine. There is no compelling need for Windows any more, and the general computer buyers are learning that, too, but likely very slowly if only for the lack of alternatives on display in the shops.
Also, for the desktop there is still no serious competitor. Linux with all its distributions has the technical quality, no doubt. However there is no big (enough) company that can push their offering to hardware makers (e.g. HP, Dell, etc), to install their OS on computers for sale, instead of Windows. Restrictive licensing contracts my MS may also be a problem there, plenty of allegations in that direction at least.
Ditching Windows and going Linux-only is a very risky strategy for those computer makers. Even if they can make their offerings cheaper (they could add crapware with Linux just like they do with Windows for the kickbacks) it is not sure whether the market would accept it. The linux distro makers are also not big and strong enough to support them - and who is going to pay for all that support anyway, if the distro can be installed for free?
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by clemdoc · 2013-02-25 20:04 · Score: 1

Cell phone vs. landline is a comparison of completely different things (ever tried carrying around your landline phone to the supermarket and calling home to ask if there was anything else you should buy but might have forgotten to put on the shopping list?) whereas a new computer is just that: A new version of something you already have.
And I think that indeed most (non-technical) people just want to keep using their computer the way they did without having to learn new stuff.
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by jurco · 2013-02-25 21:07 · Score: 2

...if they want a new computer, guess what is most likely to come on it?
My roommate Phill.
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 03:49 · Score: 0

You're dismissing the fact that most people are eager for change if it's an improvement. The "people don't want change" theory doesn't describe why people buy tablets.
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by erroneus · 2013-02-26 08:55 · Score: 1

My point stands.
If people are FORCED into change, they are likely to seek out alternatives to the offerings of the party which is forcing the change. In this case, Windows 8 is such a significant change, coupled with the general dissatisfaction of Windows users, they are not prepared to continue on with the [new] status quo when other alternatives appear to be viable.
Prior to Android, there were no serious contenders and so Microsoft got away with adding, changing and deleting things which annoyed and upset users without fear of losing sales. But things are different now. Abuse should be removed as part of the business model.
Re:It's also about what people want and don't want by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-27 01:05 · Score: 0

I just want a PC with a PC OS. not a PC running a tablet OS. SORT IT OUT MICROSOFT.... PS - Businesses do not want a Tablet OS and a touch interface. They want PCs. The PC Era is not over.... Tablets complement PCs.

Et tu, Brute? by Bearhouse · 2013-02-25 12:01 · Score: 1

Well, MS bought into Dell, presumably to secure them as the biggest MS platform. Who's next, HP, Lenovo? Hope Balmer has enough cash...

Slow news day? by viperidaenz · 2013-02-25 12:02 · Score: 0

"This isn't the first time in recent memory that HP's opted for a Google product over one offered by longtime partner Microsoft." - so it's not really news then is it?
In other front-page news, I drove to work today. Yesterday I also drove to work then drove home.

Windows OS rental by dinther · 2013-02-25 12:05 · Score: 0

Microsoft is very slow to adjust to market pressures which may become it's undoing. The world is networked now. An OS has become largely irrelevant while the browser has become the new OS.

People no longer buy an eternal license of Windows anymore. Besides that model never made sense due to continuous Windows updates. Also new PC's tend to be sold with an OEM license and only savvy PC users know how to get a box without the Microsoft tax.

Adobe got it right with their rental of their latest software suite. Priced at $40 a month you get access to thousands of dollars worth of software for as long as you keep paying.

Microsoft is well overdue to do the same. An monthly or annual Windows rental for X dollars for their latest Windows OS with maybe the first year free or at reduced cost. Not only does it remove the Windows tax from ever more competitive priced hardware but it also makes it possible for Microsoft to innovate faster and keep their Windows OSes out there up to date.

Look at Youtube! Over the years it has drastically changes the look and feel but Google did it in many small steps, slowly easing users in the direction it wants to go. If Microsoft had done this with Windows they would not have the resistance to the new Metro interface they experience today. Hardware suppliers would embrace the "free" windows OS as it allows them to compete again against other free operating systems.

Consumers win too because they don't need to fork out for a full new license every few years while being able to use the latest OS without the need to perform massive monolithic upgrades.

Er... ElitePad? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:13 · Score: 0

HP just released the ElitePad, a Windows 8 tablet that is actually pretty decent (in as much as anything running Windows 8 is "decent"). It has an 8 hour battery life, active digitizer, and some nifty dock accessories that turn it into a desktop PC. It runs an Atom CPU which is a strike against it, but in my experience (disclaimer: I just received one at work) as a tablet it's nearly as quick as my iPad and Transformer Prime are. It's a bit slow when running legacy apps, but not horribly so for the common stuff like Word/Excel, etc.

So given the above, how is HP "fleeing" exactly?

http://www8.hp.com/us/en/ad/elitepad/overview.html

Re:Er... ElitePad? by Junta · 2013-02-25 12:46 · Score: 1

What I don't get is all the industry affinity for the Atom. It's horribly crippled (because Intel fears cannibalizing i3 sales) and AMD offers competitive options in the space without the platform restrictions Atom carries and a respectable GPU. I'd love to find some decent AMD tablets (because the i-series based ones are so expensive).

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

Don't blame em by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:20 · Score: 0

Microsoft basically pissed all over the IHVs with Surface - there's going to be...trouble.

Huh? by Junta · 2013-02-25 12:30 · Score: 4, Interesting

UEFI can and has been booting Linux, Windows 7, Vista (with limitations), and OSX (significant limitations).
If by 'UEFI', you mean 'SecureBoot', then on x86 platform, so far, I'm willing to believe that malware mitigation is at least part of it (though I question the efficacy), but I think it's giving them, mostly, the facility to lock out competitors on MS 'subsidized' devices like Surface.

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

Re:Huh? by exomondo · 2013-02-25 12:40 · Score: 4, Insightful

but I think it's giving them, mostly, the facility to lock out competitors on MS 'subsidized' devices like Surface.
I suspect that if that were the case then they would have prevented SecureBoot from being turned off on the Surface Pro, but they didn't, you can turn it off and install Linux on it if you want.
Re:Huh? by ozmanjusri · 2013-02-25 13:42 · Score: 5, Insightful

but they didn't
Yet.
This is the extend phase.

--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:Huh? by exomondo · 2013-02-25 14:03 · Score: 1

but they didn't
Yet.
They can't retroactively do it either.
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 14:23 · Score: 0

They can't retroactively do it either.
The hell they can't! They're the key-holders, they can up-end the situation any second t hey choose.
Re:Huh? by exomondo · 2013-02-25 14:59 · Score: 1

The hell they can't! They're the key-holders, they can up-end the situation any second t hey choose.
How? ...or was that whoosh that i missed? ;)
Re:Huh? by ozmanjusri · 2013-02-25 16:35 · Score: 1

Not to existing devices.
But once the frogs appear used to the warmth, the heat will be turned up and they'll be extinguished.

--
"I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 16:45 · Score: 0

This is simply to allow downgrades to Win 7. Wait five years.
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 17:33 · Score: 0

Yes, they can. Hierarchical authentication is built into Trusted Computing at every level, along with key replacement and ultimat control by Microsoft as the central key holder.
Re:Huh? by exomondo · 2013-02-25 17:56 · Score: 1

Not to existing devices.
But once the frogs appear used to the warmth, the heat will be turned up and they'll be extinguished.
What is it you think they are trying to Embrace, Extend and Extinguish? Your conspiracy theory makes no sense, they can't retroactively disable the ability to boot Linux on Surface PCs and if people are using Surface devices to run Linux and then Microsoft releases a Surface that cannot run Linux then people who want to run Linux will just buy another device.
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 18:18 · Score: 0

Now you're just trolling.
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 20:14 · Score: 0

No; you're just retarded.
Re:Huh? by RaceProUK · 2013-02-26 00:38 · Score: 1

They can't retroactively do it either.
The hell they can't! They're the key-holders, they can up-end the situation any second t hey choose.
They won't, even if they could. They don't need to - you've already bought Surface and Windows.

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No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
Re:Huh? by fbobraga · 2013-02-26 01:41 · Score: 1

+1 Informative!
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 06:09 · Score: 0

Kinda like when Sony revealed newer models of ps3 that didn't include ps1/ps2 emulation or otheros, which lead to speculation they would remove it completely with a software patch. Which they did. Microsoft is objectively more evil than Sony, so its not really a question of if, but when.
Re:Huh? by PickyH3D · 2013-02-26 11:33 · Score: 1

Objectively to whom?
Sony put a rootkit onto a music CD that was reused for nefarious purposes by malware and virus authors. Sony later provided a "removal" tool that simply revealed the rootkit rather than removing it.
Sony did away with the Other OS even after advertising it is as a reason to buy a PS3.
Sony is also the company that attempted to scrub all traces of a number from the internet. Granted, it's the number used to jailbreak their PS3, but the ludicrous nature of their threats just goes to show how evil Sony really is as a company.
At the very least, Microsoft never advertised running Linux as a true feature of the Surface, but I doubt that Microsoft will look into removing the feature. They have absolutely nothing to gain by taking away the end user's ability to disable Secure Boot. Users that do so are likely on their way to voiding their warranty, and locking users out only encourages legal oversight, which is something that Microsoft is keen to avoid.
It should also go without saying that if Microsoft were to broadcast some executable that disables user control of Secure Boot, then people would reverse engineer it to simply re-enable user control.
Re:Huh? by exomondo · 2013-02-26 12:12 · Score: 1

How is that trolling? If they can't retroactively revoke Linux support then the only way Microsoft would get control with Surface would be if you for some reason had to then buy a future Surface that couldn't run Linux - why would you have to buy a Surface running Windows if you didn't even want Windows? it's just generic hardware - and even then why lock out Linux when you've already bought Windows and Surface and somehow they've managed to lock you into a Surface without Windows? Why would they even need you to run Windows if you're in some way locked to buying their hardware and software (even if you aren't going to use that software) anyway?
The GGP suggests there is some 'embrace, extend, extinguish' going on, but that doesn't make any sense, what exactly are they embracing and extending? And how would one be locked into buying Surface hardware if they only ever ran Linux on it?
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 12:20 · Score: 0

extending what?
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 12:26 · Score: 0

wait are the frogs users? or are the frogs alternative operating systems? either way your analogy doesnt appear to make any sense.
Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 16:06 · Score: 0

so you think they will do a system update that modifies the uefi firmware? if they do that they could revoke the key but since the key is used to sign the linux pre-bootloader and other bootloaders is the microsoft key that would revoke windows 8 too! i think you havent thought much about this.

Hedging bets.. by Junta · 2013-02-25 12:33 · Score: 1

This is an 'all of the above' strategy. Assuming HP's entries into the market are respectable in the respective fields (which at least the Slate 7 does not seem to be), then no matter the 'winner' HP is equipped to support it.

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XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

Re:Hedging bets.. by blackest_k · 2013-02-25 20:43 · Score: 1

From here
http://h20435.www2.hp.com/t5/The-Next-Bench-Blog/HP-Slate-This-is-the-Droid-You-Were-Looking-For/ba-p/80911

As a result, HPâ(TM)s plan includes a three-tiered approach for the tablet market. Torres adds, âoeWeâ(TM)re looking at mobility in the enterprise commercial tier, where the ElitePad 900 is already getting traction in the marketplace. The Slate is coming from the consumer line, which is really about delivering a great entertainment experience. We also want to create a third tier for premium consumer products â" a Bring-Your-Own solution for the SMB crowd. Think of a device built with a âwork hard, play hardâ(TM) attitude.âoe
The ElitePad 900 is a $649 Windows 8 tablet with 1280 x 800 screen (same resolution as my much cheaper android tablet actually). The inbetween tablet doesn't exist yet. However now there is some context it becomes a little clearer why the slate 7 is a bit so so.
In my opinion HP are trying to bait and switch. The Android tablet is supposed to be the poor mans option, your not a poor man are you? They can't build an Android tablet with decent specs or it will detract from the tablet they really want you to buy. I had to go to HP to find out a little more about the Slate 7 and it still left unanswered questions and in the process of doing so started trying to sell me on its ElitePad. Without the Slate 7 I wouldn't have bothered looking at HP.
If HP really wanted to sell me an Android tablet they could have built an Android version of the Elite Pad with it's better screen keyboard dock , longer life battery faster processor. The Message is clear, Android tablets are an inferior option to a Windows 8 tablet in every respect. Maybe they are still smarting from the failure of WEBOS, Android was the alternative that sunk their investment, I can't see HP as being a fan of Android at all.
I don't see much about the Slate 7 to differentiate it from many other chinese designs other than the badge and the colour scheme. I'm pretty sure any engineer who worked for HP on the Slate 7 would be googling reviews and as Slashdot is on the front page for the Slate 7, Im sure one will comment on one of these threads.

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Blarney Quality Restaurant, Plants

Different beast.. by Junta · 2013-02-25 12:43 · Score: 2

Windows presents MS with a conundrum.

In the case of Adobe, their market was, mostly saturated. Switching to a rental model doesn't do much to erode future revenue opportunity since the unwilling parties probably were already not buying new copies, and Adobe really doesn't have that much of a vested interest beyond the explicit revenue on the offering.

MS does have a wider vested interest in Windows though. They want to monetize facilitating and curating an application ecosystem and services like skydrive. They need users. MS would probably do better to make their OS free as in beer. This is, incidently, more the Google model, who doesn't burden ChromeOS or Android with advertising or anything nor do they charge up front or periodically (yes, vendor usage gets complicated, but end users are free to do whatever) and instead it is a means to an end of getting users into their ecosystem.

MS is instead stuck in the mindset that each individual component must be considered on its own and be a profit center in and of itself, meanwhile Google threatens to eat their lunch more and more every day.

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XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

HP being smart by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 12:57 · Score: 1

From the Business Insider: The tablet market is the future of computing. PC sales are declining while tablet sales are growing. When HP, the biggest PC maker in the world, decides the best angle to approach the consumer tablet market is to use Android, it's not good for Microsoft.

Captcha: Prepare :)

Funny by jimmyfrank · 2013-02-25 13:10 · Score: 1

People have been fleeing HP for years.

Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 13:52 · Score: 0, Offtopic

lol, faggot

HP's Android tablet will fail by lilfields · 2013-02-25 14:06 · Score: 1

HP, Dell, and other OEMs need to realize that they haven't failed necessarily because of Windows, but because they make subpar hardware and continue to make subpar hardware on the consumer level. This might be fine in the enterprise field where companies want things to be cheap and to just work, but the consumer market has changed, people want quality. Apple has been very good at that, and it took them years to build this image of quality...HP can't just crap our some piece of plastic with Windows and Android and expect it to sell. HP and Dell are so blind to this, it seems Dell has awakened somewhat with the wanting to go private, but HP is missing it big time. Android isn't going to save them, building things that aren't total junk will. This new Android tablet looks absolutely terrible, and they copied the pop color trend that Windows Phone started but executed it poorly, the bezel on the device is massive. What is HP thinking? Stick to a core OS, make your hardware not suck, it takes a while to gain traction and to get your name associated again with quality...maybe this failed Android venture will burn them enough to realize they can't keep making pieces of junk and shoving them down consumer's throats with ANY platform. It could be iOS and it wouldn't sell, stop making junk HP. Same goes to you Acer, Dell, and any other OEM who has failed miserably. Lenovo PC shipments were up last year...because they don't make total piece of garbage, get with the program.

Re:HP's Android tablet will fail by polyp2000 · 2013-02-25 22:31 · Score: 1

I have two HP Laptops an old core 2 duo c700 and a couple years old i3 G62 . Both are still going strong - both great Linux machines. The c700 amazes me how it can still hold its own against my newer machine its a bit battered through plenty of usage. The G62 i have upgraded with additional memory and second SSD drive (in the optical bay) - its my main work machine and goes with me everywhere. While both these laptops were at the budget end of the spectrum when i bought them I feel that for the money i paid for them i got a good deal. Neither machines are going in a gallery next to any Apple devices as far as looks are concerned - but I dont have money to burn on machines that are 3 times the price for the same hardware/cpu inside. All the manufacturers you cite make high end machines nowadays out of higher quality materials if you are prepared to pay the premium.
You say that consumers want quality - of course we do - but most consumers want quality that they can afford. Apple stuff is expensive and while their phones and tablets can be had at good deals from the phone shops subsidized by contracts their computers are too expensive for the average joe.

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Electronic Music Made Using Linux http://soundcloud.com/polyp

ever so slightly by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-25 14:15 · Score: 0

ever so slightly outdated by the recent release of Android 4.2.

Yea, a device unveiled that's only 3.5 months behind, not for sale yet, and may in fact never get an update. And people say there's no problem with the Android ecosystem. HP is going to join this race to the bottom? I'm unsure why people buy anything other than Nexus tablets unless they really desire to tinker out their own updates... I 3 my Nexus 10, and the 7 seems pretty awesome too.

Re:ever so slightly by fredgiblet · 2013-02-25 19:23 · Score: 1

It amuses me when people complain about the Windows Phone 8 upgrade restrrictiosn when the phone in my pocket is still running Android 2.2, it was supposed to get 2.3 but LG decided they'd rather put out a new phone to run 2.3 instead. 2.3 was released less than 4 months after I got my phone.

M$ don't care by Chewbacon · 2013-02-25 14:44 · Score: 1

M$ don't give a shit. Android tax. They still make a dollar off of it.

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Chewbacon
The Bible is like Wikipedia: written by a bunch of people and verifiable by questionable sources.

racist much? by decora · 2013-02-25 17:44 · Score: 1

whats next, calling HP "fleeing the Microsoft Plantation for the underground railroad of Android" ?

This may have been Windows last chance by bobjr94 · 2013-02-25 18:00 · Score: 1

When MS put out Vista and no one wanted it, we all clung on to XP then jumped on Win 7 soon as it came out. Now we have a 3rd party (Tablets) to turn to, by the time Win 9 comes out and things are put back right no one will care. Because of Win 8, the post PC era got a strong kick start from the very people who helped create it.

HP is responding to shifting consumer tastes by JonBoy47 · 2013-02-25 20:10 · Score: 1

Businesses have boat-loads of lagacy, proprietary software that will keep them tied to Winblows for the forseeable future. Consumers have no such hang-ups, and are starting to realize that iPad, Kindle Fire or the innumerable Android-based alternatives can meet their web surfing, Facebook, email, media consumption, gaming, etc. needs, at a lower cost and with much greater portability. We're a couple of software updates away from a tablet that is a true, viable replacement for a Windows PC. This is the future M$ is shitting themselves over, and that HP is trying to position themselves for.

I'm Lovin' it by Mike+Frett · 2013-02-25 21:54 · Score: 0

Loving the gradual move away from Microsoft products that we've been seeing last year and this year; but I don't think Android is the answer. HP should have just chosen a Linux distro and customized it to their likings instead of being at Google's mercy. Makes no sense to jump from one bad guy to another, when a good guy is staring you in the face.

M$ didn't anticipate backlash to Surface by cj9er · 2013-02-26 01:04 · Score: 1

This is hardly surprising, Microsoft really pissed off the OEMs by producing their own hardware (which they usually do very poorly, i.e. Kin) in this space. Sure a re-branded keyboard or mouse here or there is no big deal but when they go out and try replacing the entire ecosystem, they HAD to know there was going to be backlash.

Turn OFF Secuboot? Only true on X86 based devices. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-02-26 09:30 · Score: 0

Only true on X86 based devices.
On ARM based systems you cannot turn off SecureBoot (misnomer: should be rather "MonopolyBoot", or "ExclusiveBoot").
On the other hand, if MS pushes too far in this direction, it will loose millions of sales: not everyone appreciates this corporate behaviour.
JF.

Re:Turn OFF Secuboot? Only true on X86 based devic by exomondo · 2013-02-26 13:36 · Score: 1

Only true on X86 based devices.

That's why i wrote Surface Pro.

On ARM based systems you cannot turn off SecureBoot

Not without a hack no, instead of using UEFI and secureboot they could have done what other ARM devices do by locking out root access and/or using a non-standard bootloader (which is often locked), but the result is the same.

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HP Continuing To Flee Windows Reservation With Android Tablet

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