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Criticism Of Copyright Alert System Mounts

Dangerous_Minds writes "This last week, the Copyright Alert System was rolled out. Now that everyone is getting a better idea of what the alert system looks like, criticisms are building against the system. Freezenet says that the mere fact that ISPs are using a browser pop-up window opens the floodgates for fraudsters to hijack the system and scam users out of money. The EFF criticized the system because the educational material contains numerous flaws. Meanwhile, Web Pro News said that this system will also hurt small business and consumers."

21 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. What "education" by johanw · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is exactly the same as other totalitarian regimes did and do to re-"educate" (or to say it plainly, indoctrinate) their citizens with ideological propaganda to support the system. The USSR did it before the wall fell in 1989, and now the megacorps are doing it in the USA. Most Russians were clever enough to see through such propaganda, I'm curious to see if Americans are just as smart.

    1. Re:What "education" by SteveFoerster · · Score: 4, Informative

      What a obviously stupid thing to say. The U.S. exported over $2 trillion worth of goods and services last year.

      --
      Space game using normal deck of cards: http://BattleCards.org
    2. Re:What "education" by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Interesting
      You'd be right, except you're very wrong. Per CIA World Factbook:

      Exports:$1.612 trillion (2012 est.) country comparison to the world: 3 $1.497 trillion (2011 est.) Exports - commodities: agricultural products (soybeans, fruit, corn) 9.2%, industrial supplies (organic chemicals) 26.8%, capital goods (transistors, aircraft, motor vehicle parts, computers, telecommunications equipment) 49.0%, consumer goods (automobiles, medicines) 15.0%

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:What "education" by flayzernax · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you take the time to read over that you will see some interesting facts.

      1. They consider consumer goods bought in the country by traveling foreigners exports (t-shirts, cake, cell phones, etc) I don't think that should count its cheating since those goods were not manufactured here and we are just middle men. Walmart is not an exporter of TV's, they are a retailer.

      2. The other factor they add in which accounts for 500 billion of that is software, movie, and TV royalties. These are not physically manufactured goods or property as much as your civil ideology likes to believe they will never be property. The wealth from this industry is even worse distributed then the wealth from the auto and oil industries. It only accounts for probably the top 1000 wealthiest families and is probably immediately exported to tax havens.

      So I am going to call $2 trillion exports bullshit, its great that we can use Hollywood accounting there also.

      I would like to see numbers that show real exports of physical goods, that are useful in a real sense, like water, steel, oil, natural gas, salt, food, cars, etc...

    4. Re:What "education" by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

      1. They consider consumer goods bought in the country by traveling foreigners exports (t-shirts, cake, cell phones, etc) I don't think that should count its cheating since those goods were not manufactured here and we are just middle men. Walmart is not an exporter of TV's, they are a retailer.

      2. The other factor they add in which accounts for 500 billion of that is software, movie, and TV royalties. These are not physically manufactured goods or property as much as your civil ideology likes to believe they will never be property. The wealth from this industry is even worse distributed then the wealth from the auto and oil industries. It only accounts for probably the top 1000 wealthiest families and is probably immediately exported to tax havens.

      So I am going to call $2 trillion exports bullshit, its great that we can use Hollywood accounting there also.

      These are the correct accounting definitions of exports - the money used to pay for these items came from outside the country. Semantic arguments like you are making matter little to the accountants. What matters is that the money on both sides of the transaction balance out. And in both these cases, the money used to pay for these goods is deducted from the "other country" column and is added to the "U.S." column. So they are exports.

      If you try to classify them as domestic purchases as you are suggesting, the amount of money earned by workers domestically ends up not equaling the amount of money spent domestically (after factoring in money put into/taken out of savings accounts and the like). And the accountants throw a hissy fit.

      It only accounts for probably the top 1000 wealthiest families and is probably immediately exported to tax havens.

      This is an interesting one. I'll have to ask my account friend about it. But I suspect until that money is used to buy something (whether in the U.S. or abroad), it's still considered U.S. money. Just because they put it into an offshore account doesn't mean they won't eventually use it to buy something domestically.

  2. Why the hell are the pure ISps doing this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Aren't they protected from liability as long as they act as "dumb pipes"? Doesn't his mean they are opening themselves up for liability? Yeah, I understand the ones that own media companies but what about the rest? Seems like a way to lose customers is all.

    Everyone should draw a crappy picture in paint, host it on something free like google sites, and spread links that bring people to a second page that says "You don't have permission to click this link" with a link to the picture itself. Then bring copyright complaints to all the ISPs of all the people who inevitably click that and hence download your copyrighted crap without permission. Flood the fuckers.

    1. Re:Why the hell are the pure ISps doing this? by kelemvor4 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Aren't they protected from liability as long as they act as "dumb pipes"? Doesn't his mean they are opening themselves up for liability? Yeah, I understand the ones that own media companies but what about the rest? Seems like a way to lose customers is all.

      Everyone should draw a crappy picture in paint, host it on something free like google sites, and spread links that bring people to a second page that says "You don't have permission to click this link" with a link to the picture itself. Then bring copyright complaints to all the ISPs of all the people who inevitably click that and hence download your copyrighted crap without permission. Flood the fuckers.

      They aren't going to be losing customers because in MOST markets there is no competition for a customer to choose. With very little risk to their market share they don't have a lot to lose.

    2. Re:Why the hell are the pure ISps doing this? by stephanruby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, I understand the ones that own media companies but what about the rest? Seems like a way to lose customers is all.

      You're not just the customer, you're the product (some of you already locked-in by contracts). For those ISPs that are not owned by big media conglomerates, they'll just get money for the ad-impressions that are generated by this surveillance system.

    3. Re:Why the hell are the pure ISps doing this? by hairyfeet · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Not to mention everyone here seems to be missing the point of WHY they were so quick to jump on the bandwagon...does anybody here think these megacorp ISPs give a rat's ass about any copyrights they don't profit from? Fuck no but what they DO care about is customers actually getting what they paid for!

      You see folks for years the ISP have oversold the HELL out of their lines, in some cases claiming a good 5 times what they could actually deliver because they counted on so few people actually using what they paid for they could get away with it. Then a funny thing happened....people actually started using their connections. oh they'll SAY its because of piracy, but that is bullshit as I've known plenty of pirates and most are still downloading DVDrips that suck a hell of a lot less bandwidth than somebody like me who doesn't pirate uses. Where is my bandwidth going? Steam, Hulu, YouTube and for awhile Netflix.

      See the ISPs don't like this for a couple of reasons. One since they are all now in the content business, an obvious conflict of interest BTW, well they sure as fuck ain't gonna be happy if you are watching Hulu instead of paying them for their overpriced channel packages are they? Not gonna be watching their PPV if you already have netflix, and if you are using Steam or OnLive that is hours you COULD have been giving them money for content that went to gaming companies instead, can't have that. The second reason hurts their bottom line even worse, for years they haven't added shit as far as new lines and capacity and now that even grandma is using YouTube and Hulu that means if they don't find a way to "thin the herd" of those that actually use what they paid for? Good God man, they may actually have to...gasp!....stop handing all the money out as bonuses to the execs! The horror!

      So I have NO doubt that the first ones to see six strikes? Will NOT be pirates, it'll be the ones actually using close to the full amount they paid for. The Steam users, netflix and Hulu users, all those that get close to their cap every single month will get a "uh oh, you used what you paid for, you dirty filthy pirate you" and run out on a rail. that way they can keep falsely advertising their have more capacity than they have, keep giving the profits as bonuses, and keep their content making crazy money because that doesn't go against your cap don't ya know.

      --
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  3. Ugh by JWW · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The fact that the content industry has no problems with having the ISP industry monitoring their CUSTOMERS use of the Internet makes me sick.

    Some rights are more important than others. My right to not be spied on by a company I (not the content industry) am doing business with is much more important than the content industries desire to make sure they're paid every dime they think they deserve.

    The ISPs should have fought like hell to achieve a common carrier status which would have allowed them to tell big content to pound sand. Oh and as for the content industry owning many ISPs our government should have never allowed that.

    I'll say it again. If your business model requires a police state to be viable, you need to fucking go out of business.

    1. Re:Ugh by Skapare · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If they can insert content into your data stream in the place that makes it pop up, then they have to be able to look at that stream. Spying!

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    2. Re:Ugh by jd2112 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The fact that the content industry has no problems with having the ISP industry monitoring their CUSTOMERS use of the Internet makes me sick.

      Some rights are more important than others. My right to not be spied on by a company I (not the content industry) am doing business with is much more important than the content industries desire to make sure they're paid every dime they think they deserve.

      The ISPs should have fought like hell to achieve a common carrier status which would have allowed them to tell big content to pound sand. Oh and as for the content industry owning many ISPs our government should have never allowed that.

      I'll say it again. If your business model requires a police state to be viable, you need to fucking go out of business.

      Most of the largest ISPs are owned by content providers (Time-Warner) or own content providers (Comcast) or have business interests working with content providers (all cable internet providers)

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  4. Popup? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Browser hijacking popup?

    Noscript says "wat?"

  5. Is this not a form of wire tapping? by smartin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems to me that the content of an IP packet should be protected under wiretapping laws. What gives the ISPs the right to monitor my traffic. If they do have this right, do they also have the right to break or somehow spoof encrypted traffic as well?

    --
    The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
    1. Re:Is this not a form of wire tapping? by poofmeisterp · · Score: 3, Informative

      It seems to me that the content of an IP packet should be protected under wiretapping laws. What gives the ISPs the right to monitor my traffic. If they do have this right, do they also have the right to break or somehow spoof encrypted traffic as well?

      The ISP has the right to monitor your traffic because you signed an agreement that says they are allowed to, and are allowed to take action.

      They aren't breaking encrypted traffic; the endpoints are the endpoints whether the traffic is encrypted or not. If one of those endpoints is a "MarkMonitor" entity, they are perfectly within their right to receive any information they do.

      Now, if only a totally encrypted environment existed with no palatable way to identify users..... Oh, wait, Freenet does exist. It's just so damned slow that using it is, well.. feasible, but not something fast-paced people (read: most) are going to accept. However, it is an option.

  6. I find myself torn.... by mark-t · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If, as is described on the copyrightinformation.org website, the copyright alert system is implemented such that the IP addresses it gathers genuinely are being used by infringers, I don't have much of a problem with this, since I don't download infringing content, nor do I do anything which might permit or enable other people to use my internet connection who may, and I do not hold much sympathy for those who do.

    There are, however, two major flaws that concern me greatly. The first is that if they are falsely alleging that a subscriber infringed on copyright with one of these alerts, the subscriber cannot actually challenge the alert until after about the 3rd or 4th one. The other issue, an even bigger one, is that all of the alerts, even including the ones which permit an alleged perpetrator to appeal, are worded very much like a form letter, and do not contain any particulars about the accusation, like what work was allegedly infringed on, which network the alleged infringement occurred on, when it occurred, etc. It doesn't even identify the *TYPE* of alleged infringing content, which strikes me as incrediby unfair.... and has a very similar feel in my opinion to the notion of, say, being stopped and given a warning by a police officer, but them not telling you what it was that you supposedly even did. If you don't know what they are even talking about, then how are you expected to sensibly respond, beyond calling them liars?

  7. Re:Not about Internet Rights anymore by Beavertank · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would you also say that the ACLU doesn't back important rights because it advocates for the speech rights of groups you disagree with? Privacy doesn't mean being left alone to do just what _you_ think everyone else should.

    The EFF is still fighting for internet privacy. That some people their privacy so they may violate IP laws is immaterial.

  8. yeah by Tom · · Score: 5, Insightful

    True. When this was first posted, I didn't need to read further than "browser pop-up" to realize it's a bad thing. I am a professional IT security expert, after a couple of years you get an intuition about stupid ideas.

    Will it work? Are you kidding me?

    Will it have unintended consequences? Nah... neeeeever... what could possibly go wrong?

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  9. Re:Spying? by spire3661 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That network that isnt 'ours' crosses a billon public right-of-ways. They may own the wire, but we own the land it runs through, its not as simple as you make it to be. The public has a vested interest in regulating ISPs and we should be doing more to leash them.

    --
    Good-bye
  10. Ive been purposely download as much as possible by bobjr94 · · Score: 3, Informative

    for the last week, so far no emails, letters or pop up's from comcast. Ive wanting to see how much downloading does it take before I get flagged. Then once I know the triggers, I can switch to an anonymous vpn and try it again.

  11. Fuck your copyright bullshit! by bornagainpenguin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The difference between your Martin Niemoller reference and what I am saying is that what they are going after, is that in Niemoller's case, the people "they came for" may have, at worst, been considered the fringes of society, but they weren't necessarily doing anything that was previously against the law. Copyright infringement actually *IS* illegal, and has been for quite a long time.

    I'll take copyright infringement seriously the day that Big Media starts taking the public domain seriously, and not one second before. They thought they could play this game of indefinitely extending the length of copyright terms, effectively stealing from the public domain and all of humanity without there being unforeseen consequences? Guess what? People now take copyrights about as seriously as Big Media does, i.e. not at all.

    Fuck your copyrights.

    --
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