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Copyright Trolls Sue Bloggers, Defense Lawyers

davecb writes "Prenda Law has commenced three defamation, libel and conspiracy suits against: defense lawyers, defendants and all the blogger and commentators at 'Die Troll Die' and 'Fight Copyright Trolls'. The suits, in different state courts, each attempt to identify anyone who has criticized Prenda, fine them $200,000 each for stating their opinions, and prohibit them from ever criticizing Prenda again."

60 of 219 comments (clear)

  1. Sorry, Prenda by X0563511 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That is not how the world works.

    Prepare to lose. Badly.

    --
    For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    1. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If they come - they need to come in person and be prepared to meet Mr. Mossberg.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:Sorry, Prenda by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Any judge that doesn't dismiss this immediately as frivolous with big fines should be impeached.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Sorry, Prenda by houstonbofh · · Score: 4, Informative

      I wonder how much it would hurt a law firm to be declared a vexatious litigant? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexatious_litigation :)

    4. Re:Sorry, Prenda by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      Most judges are former litigators. Seems like a conflict of interest to me.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    5. Re:Sorry, Prenda by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That is not how the world works.

      The chilling effect has already been imposed. It is how the world works.

      It's not how the world ought to work, but somewhere along the line we decided that the lawyers should run society, and the results are predictable.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    6. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Conspiracy_Of_Doves · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The trolls' lawyers should be disbarred for taking the case.

    7. Re:Sorry, Prenda by cusco · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is a SLAPP suit, a Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation. They won't win it, and are quite aware of that fact. It's not a suit that's meant to be won, it's a suit meant to inconvenience the other party so much that they shut up. Normally you see this coming from the big petrochemical companies and food conglomerates to shut up the public activists, the suit is designed to inconvenience the activists and their friends/family/employers, keep them in court, keep them paying lawyers, keep them traveling to an inconvenient venue to appear in a courtroom as far from their home as possible, keep them out of their regular job until they're fired or laid off, require depositions from their boss/friends/in-laws at the most inconvenient times possible, etc. The ultimate goal is to bankrupt the activist if possible, so that not only do they have to drop whatever action they're currently taking but won't be able to afford any other activities in the future.

      So much for the Rule Of Law. The rule is now that the deepest pockets always win.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    8. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Threni · · Score: 2

      No, the legal system needs to be ridiculous enough that you can win millions on some spurious bullshit but not so ridiculous that people begin to see through it.

    9. Re:Sorry, Prenda by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm willing to bet that Prenda is going to get owned pretty badly.

      If I were a copyright blogger I'd be interested in blogging, not putting out large sums of money (which I might not have) and being dragged through the court system to possibly be made whole in a counter-suit.

      Prenda has raised the bar to exclude such blogging from people who are are unwilling to put up with that sort of abuse. Certainly kudos to those who can, but many cannot.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    10. Re:Sorry, Prenda by erroneus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Much of the time, the trolls ARE lawyers, but yes, I agree. The justice system is not supposed to be a "for profit" thing.

    11. Re:Sorry, Prenda by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, these cases should be heard. They should be heard, lost, have legal fees shoved back on them, and marked as a warning to others.

      When a judge dismisses a case, it can be refiled elsewhere. When it's dismissed with prejudice, someone else can raise the same sort of suit. When YOU FUCKING LOSE, the next guy will face a defense lawyer who says "oh, but in Dickhead vs. BK Joe, Dickhead was found to be a moron" and THAT GUY FUCKING LOSES TOO.

    12. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Great+Big+Bird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It has always been the deepest pockets.

    13. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      in the UK at least I can claim loss of earnings from the litigant when I win the case

      Is that true in general, or only in specific circumstances?

      I was called as a third party witness in a minor court case a while back. One of the things that surprised me was that the accused, having been found not guilty, did not seem to be entitled to much in the way of compensation at all. This was a criminal case, though, not a civil one.

      In that case, the defendant had been charged with an offence, presumably suffered more than a year of distress with the case hanging over them before it was finally resolved, spent whatever time and money it cost them to mount their own defence (they represented themselves in court), and obviously incurred the lost time and inconvenience of having to attend court itself. I was genuinely disappointed in our legal system when it seemed they were sent on their way as if they should somehow be grateful that, after suffering all of that distress and inconvenience, at least they hadn't been found guilty of what they'd been charged with and fined/thrown in jail.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    14. Re:Sorry, Prenda by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 5, Funny

      ...we decided that the lawyers should run society...

      I think you mis-spelled ruin.

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    15. Re:Sorry, Prenda by jcr · · Score: 2

      It would pretty much put them out of business. No client wants a lawyer that’s been declared an asshole by the court.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    16. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Generally the losing party has to pay the legal costs of the winning party (i.e. pay for your time if you're representing yourself)

      I guess it's whether the second part really falls under the first that I'm questioning.

      On another occasion, I got ripped off myself, for a modest but significant amount of money. It seemed like it should be a straightforward case: they took a deposit for something, then tried to fundamentally change the deal, and then repeatedly contradicted themselves in writing when I called them on it. I spent considerable time carefully documenting everything as this was all happening and reading up on small claims procedures.

      However, I couldn't find anything to suggest that I would get any compensation for the time I was spending even if I won a case, because that time didn't necessarily represent a direct loss of income, and apparently my time and inconvenience has no value in the eyes of the law even if paying a lawyer a far greater sum to spend far less time looking at the case would do because it's then money that I've personally had to spend. That meant the amount of money I'd "lost" (if you just took the time I'd spent and multiplied it by my normal hourly rate, as a relatively objective measure of its worth) was already worth more than the amount of money I was out in the first place, before I'd even filed any paperwork to start the court case.

      I would love for someone who is actually a UK lawyer to tell me that I misunderstood this. It irritates me greatly that the other party basically got away with something (and from stories I've heard since, I was neither the first nor the last person they pulled this on, either) and all I really did was teach them that people who send letters as the first step in a formal legal action will probably go away rather than actually take you to court if you just waste enough of their time. Unfortunately, again it was a situation where spending money to take on a lawyer would have cost a significant fraction of the disputed amount, so all I could go on was the (not always helpful) public documentation available from the court web sites etc.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    17. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And there is nothing wrong with putting incompetent professionals out of business. I'm a doctor and if I start being negligent and killing people I would deserve being run out of the profession because I have to stop being a doctor one way or another. A true professional stops long before he reaches that point and doesn't bite off more than he can reasonably chew. The consequences can be dire, and what's worse it's someone else that suffers them. So yeah, run them out of business and they can find a new career parking cars.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    18. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      ... So yeah, run them out of business and they can find a new career parking cars.

      Not sure I'd trust them with my car, either, given their track record.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    19. Re:Sorry, Prenda by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      There's always the ammo. Damn those bullets are unbalanced today.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    20. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Kittenman · · Score: 2

      So much for the Rule Of Law. The rule is now that the deepest pockets always win.

      Saw a cartoon once where the Judge looks down from the well-dressed criminal in the dock, and asks the clerk of the court; "Fetch me the law for the rich, would you?"

      --
      "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    21. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 2

      For lawyers' fees, that makes a certain amount of sense, I agree. But it's also why I didn't spend any money on a lawyer and instead spent dozens of hours wading through legal process documentation and court forms and so on myself (including many pages similar to the source you gave, from the likes of Citizens Advice and from the courts themselves). That is time that directly cost me income, as a freelancer who was working by the hour and would certainly have been working for some of that time, but I have absolutely no way of proving any such loss in court because by the nature of freelance work I had no contractual "standard hours" or similar provisions to cite.

      I'm quite sure the other party, a professional organisation who managed to find a different person to respond to me and a different version of events every time I wrote to them, were well aware of this. After all, those people were probably going to be paid to be at the office anyway, so writing fob-me-off letters cost them nothing, while writing carefully worded letters based on my written records of exactly what actually happened cost me a lot, relative to the amount in dispute in the first place.

      This is why I'm a little sceptical of the reply by "History's Coming To", suggesting that he/she "could make quite a nice living from just sitting in court and winning cases which are meant to be inconveniencing me".

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    22. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Genda · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But legally bludgeoning people to shut them up, rob them, pimp slap them publicly and perform live human sacrifices to educate the rest of the sheeple that if they step out of line the big bad wolves will serve them up with mint jelly is easy, common and the system stinks with it. And it won't change, because the lawyers like it this way, and the people who make our laws are almost to a person lawyers or ex-lawyers with friends still in the business and happy to fund a political campaign. Worse, the corporations like it this way because it gives them unlimited power to crush little people under their thumbs. So, the only answer is for the people to shout "Whoa! The system is broken and the lawyers have raped and pillaged what the bankers haven't razed to the ground."

      Short of a French Revolution redux, we need to explain with extreme prejudice that we as a society are no longer amused and in fact the random thought of heads in baskets suddenly seems rather amusing.

    23. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Fluffeh · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, these cases should be heard. They should be heard, lost, have legal fees shoved back on them, and marked as a warning to others.

      When a judge dismisses a case, it can be refiled elsewhere. When it's dismissed with prejudice, someone else can raise the same sort of suit. When YOU FUCKING LOSE, the next guy will face a defense lawyer who says "oh, but in Dickhead vs. BK Joe, Dickhead was found to be a moron" and THAT GUY FUCKING LOSES TOO.

      While I agree, look at what happened in RightHaven - sure, they lost, costs were awarded etc, but when it came to paying, suddenly there was no-one home and no assets worth a dime... Scroll down to the Insolvency section to see exactly what happened...

      --
      Moved to http://soylentnews.org/. You are invited to join us too!
    24. Re:Sorry, Prenda by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "Most judges are former litigators. Seems like a conflict of interest to me."

      Interesting point. I don't think I have thought about it quite that way before...

      In any case, I looked at the filing posted at that link, and some of the things Prenda lists are very clearly not libel or slander. For example, there is little question that the cartoon of Bart Simpson at the blackboard would be protected as parody. Some other things appear to be mere opinion, which can never be libel.

      This looks to me like a SLAPP suit or suits (Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation), which is justification for the defendants to turn around and sue Prenda.

      You have to wonder where these guys studied law. ( -- A statement that is provably not libelous. )

    25. Re:Sorry, Prenda by erroneus · · Score: 2

      If by ultra-capitalist you mean that even and especially the government is available to the highest bidder, then you're pretty much right. It disgusts me to face that fact as much as my initial reaction was to find a way to deny it. I kind of can't.

      But there's one thing that's driving government which isn't money -- it's guilt -- especially white male guilt. I have recently been exploring the deep and dark hole that is the justice system and the differences between the rights of men and women. It's far worse than I could ever have imagined. Racial politics are nearly the same though it's showing signs of trying to normalize. And don't even think about criticizing the US Israel policy -- nuclear guilt, blame and labeling will follow.

      But after that, it's money. How else can you explain how parties who offer so little get so much? (Don't read that the wrong way. I'm just saying they don't 'contribute' millions or billions to government in exchange for anything.)

  2. Good luck with that by swimboy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hornet's nest, meet boot.

    --
    Ask me how the Heisenberg Principle may or may not have saved my life.
    1. Re:Good luck with that by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Funny

      Did the Heisenberg Principle save your life?

      Yes and no.

    2. Re:Good luck with that by CanHasDIY · · Score: 2

      Did the Heisenberg Principle save your life?

      Yes and no.

      ... but I'm really not sure.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
  3. Thats a lot of lawsuits... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I wonder if the Troll knows they will probably have to pay all the defendents costs if they lose?

    1. Re:Thats a lot of lawsuits... by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

      With what? They probably know a good bankruptcy attorney...

    2. Re:Thats a lot of lawsuits... by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I wonder if the Troll knows they will probably have to pay all the defendents costs if they lose?

      You don't live in the USA. Am I right?

      That's how law works in the UK. My best friend is a lawyer (we're both Americans) and he's taught me a lot about how the law really works. One of the things he taught me is that it's incredibly difficult in the USA to get costs paid, even when the lawsuit is frivolous. The problem is that courts in general really don't like to award this kind of thing because all judges and lawyers feel that the system works pretty well, darn near close to perfect, as it is right now and anything that punishes people for bringing lawsuits and losing would "hurt the little man" who will be too afraid to pursue his justified lawsuit against some true injustice because he might lose and have to pay the other guy's court costs. So almost certainly this will not be a factor, although if the defendants are attorneys they might push for it anyway as they know the system well enough that it might give them a slightly better chance of getting it than would normally happen.

    3. Re:Thats a lot of lawsuits... by GodInHell · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not necessarily in this case. Anti-SLAPP act statutes in several states are harsh on the fees question.

    4. Re:Thats a lot of lawsuits... by cdrudge · · Score: 2

      Judgements are the cause of bankruptcies all the time. Someone who had a civil judgement against them from a car accident for instance can discharge the judgement as part of a Chapter 7 bankruptcy. It's cases of fraud and willful and malicious injury (among other reasons) where a bankruptcy doesn't usually discharge.

    5. Re:Thats a lot of lawsuits... by seebs · · Score: 2

      I used to sue junk faxers as a hobby, we never had any trouble at all getting costs awarded. Fees are harder, and fees and costs are not the same thing. But we got fees awarded at least once. So, it can happen.

      --
      My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
    6. Re:Thats a lot of lawsuits... by yurtinus · · Score: 2

      ...some people juggle geese!

      --
      +1 Disagree
  4. Oh man... by benjfowler · · Score: 3

    They've just opened the gates of hell on themselves.

    It's not going to end well for them; but if other peoples' pain is funny, this will be hilarious to watch.

  5. Wait... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Isn't this the same law firm that is facing allegations of fraud and identity theft?

    Why yes, yes it is. And that case is scheduled for next week...

    1. Re:Wait... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      Point of order: If they are literally convicted of fraud, we can then get away with calling them frauds?

      Until then "worthless scum-sucking sacks of shit" will have to do?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  6. They know what they're doing by oic0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Its a law firm full of blood sucking lawyers who specialize in suing people. As much as we may think we know about law and how they are going to get their butts kicked, I'm sure they have some sort of angle or strategy here.

    1. Re:They know what they're doing by crashumbc · · Score: 2

      That and free publicity.

      Like has been said before "there' no such thing as bad publicity..."

        In this case if the stiasand effect takes hold so much the better.

      The lawyer will become a household name with copyright trolls everywhere...

    2. Re:They know what they're doing by Thud457 · · Score: 2

      ah well, we all know what they say about attorneys that represent themselves... explains a lot in this case, actually.

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    3. Re:They know what they're doing by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      This may be a case of intentional harassment, and may be(depending on the judge and jury) grounds for some disbarment. That's a lot to hope for, but I would love to have these assholes lose their jobs for participating in abuse of station.

  7. Of all the people by earlzdotnet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of all the people criticizing these copyright trolls, why would they strike back at the guys who know what they're talking about and have the means to defend themselves(lawyers). Waiting for someone to come here soon and say "And....it's gone" with a link to their statement about going bankrupt and closing shop.

  8. Prenda Pretendah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    How do you libel or defame those who are under investigation for being pretending to be that which they are not?

    A federal judge in Los Angeles has suggested serious penalties for Brett Gibbs, an attorney at porn copyright trolling firm Prenda Law. Facing allegations of fraud and identity theft, Gibbs will be required to explain himself at a March 11 hearing. And if Judge Otis Wright isn't satisfied with his answers, he may face fines and even jail time. (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/02/judge-hints-at-jail-time-for-porn-troll-prenda-law-over-identity-theft/)

    My opinion is that they will be too busy staying out of jail to do anything worth $200,000 and some bothersome amendment about free speech.

  9. Bad Lawyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Let's not forget, this is the same Prenda Law that has made the front page of Slashdot twice in the past quarter. In December, identity theft and fraud was alleged by Prenda and a federal district court judge granted a defendant's motion to explore that. Additionally, last month, a federal judge in Los Angeles suggested serious penalties for Brett Gibbs, an attorney at porn copyright trolling firm Prenda Law - including possible jail time. It sounds like this is the final breath of Prenda Law. They are going down in flames, and this is their last, desperate cry, and an attempt to silence those who have brought their injustices to light.

    Given that they've sued thousands of downloaders, and continued to do so despite judicially admitting that many of them were innocent, I can't really say I feel sorry for them. Consider the amount of emotional turmoil and grief they've extracted over the past few years from suing people. Think it's fun to be named in a federal lawsuit? Think again.

    Hopefully, this goes nowhere.

  10. First Amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    One thing that I don't understand is why the blatant abuse of a individuals first amendment rights is not actively protected more than "don't do that" kind of slap on the wrist when legal entities who know it's a violation commit these acts. These kind of abuses should be treated more as criminal offenses as they violate what the US has defined as a human right and be treated with such weight. I don't mean a heafty fine, but more akin to dis-Bar and a felony charged on the grounds of violating basic human rights by way of abusing social position (IE Lawyers abusing their knowledge of laws and funding to hold back the public, who may lack of knowledge of law or are unable to protect themselves due to lack of funding).

    1. Re:First Amendment by davecb · · Score: 3, Interesting

      In the era in which the Constitution was written, this wasn't a common practice. A good federal SLAPP law might classify then actions as an abuse of power, or a fraud upon the court, depending on whether one was a lawyer or a plaintiff, in order to make the punishment fit the crime.

      Anyone want to start a White House petition for criminal sanctions against anyone who defrauds a court?

      --dave (I can't, I'd have to start a 24 Sussex Drive petition) c-b

      --
      davecb@spamcop.net
  11. Nope, they're just stupid by kawabago · · Score: 2

    If they were smart people they wouldn't need to use this business model.

  12. Die Prenda Die! by gravis777 · · Score: 3

    Do I get sued now?

    1. Re:Die Prenda Die! by CodeHxr · · Score: 5, Funny

      As far as I know, speaking German isn't illegal anywhere...?

  13. Prenda law I'm talking about by kawabago · · Score: 2

    Just in case there's any confusion. Prenda Law is a group of loser's that couldn't make an honest living so they turned to extortion. Oh, and I'm in British Columbia and it'll cost Prenda $35,000 up front to launch an action here, and Prenda will lose here too. But they probably aren't smart enough to figure that out.

  14. Re:Removed to federal court? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 2

    Probably because Prenda already has a case in Federal court where they're... well, to say they aren't doing well is like saying the Titanic was taking on a bit of water that night in 1912. My guess is the next move on the part of the defendants here is to ask to have these cases consolidated with the preexisting one.

  15. Sorry, Prenda? Why? by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

    Those douches need to be spanked, and spanked badly. Beat them until their mothers cry. (Alright, so that's unlikely to happen since they all climbed out of some puddle of primordial ooze.)

    --
    "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
  16. Isn't Prenda run by pedophiles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    That's what I heard, Prenda is run by a child molesting ring of Nazi baby killers. Does anyone else know anything interesting about Prenda?

  17. Re:Sorry, Prenda? Why? by Nerdfest · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Perhaps in a case like this the judge should fine the accuser if they lose and give the claimed damages to the defendants.There needs to be some sort of downside to this kind of abuse.

  18. Re:Sorry, Prenda? Why? by SilentStaid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If that were to happen Prenda Law (http://wefightpiracy.com/) would fold, declare bankruptcy with no assets available to their creditors and simply start a new corporation.

    I'm truly sorry you thought there was a possible outcome of justice.

  19. Re:Sorry, Prenda? Why? by cusco · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is that three of four years down the road, when the whole process finally wraps up, the defendants might well have been bankrupted by the whole mess. The mother of a former housemate actually lost her house because even though she won a lawsuit (the AMA sued her for 'practicing medicine without a license' in the 1970s for acting as a midwife) and was awarded damages in the meantime she had spent so much time in court she lost her job and then lost her house.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  20. Re:Now Slashdot by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Funny

    As well as everyone who commented on this article. Wait a second.... *run from the comments section screaming*

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  21. Terrorism of a different class. by Khyber · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This idiotic firm is quite simply a group of terrorists using the law to scare people.

    What needs to happen is these assholes need to get not only an anti-SLAPP suit filed against them, and get them declared vexatious litigants, but also have terrorism charges brought upon them as well. There is a clear threat for political motivation. It is terrorism, pure and simple.

    These total morons need to be exterminated by the very system they seek to abuse.

    Hey, Prenda, don't like my comments? Yea, I'm on Die Troll Die, bring it. I'll give you the same treatment I gave Electronic Arts in the courtroom. Trust me, that wasn't pretty for them, and it won't be for you.

    My info is quite public, if you want the most recent, go ahead, look it up RIF1200346 Riverside California court system. You can get my updated information there.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.