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Texas Bills Would Bar Warrantless Snooping On Phone Location
pigrabbitbear writes "The Supreme Court may have approved the warrantless wiretapping of American citizens for just about forever, but the good old state of Texas isn't going to take that lying down. Texas lawmakers don't believe that cell phone location data is fair game for law enforcement, and a couple identical bills filed in Texas's House and Senate would provide sweeping protections for private cell users."
This isn't necessary anyway. Not when everyone willingly reports their location to Facebook and Twitter every time they need to brag about every bite of whatever they're eating. Or every bowel movement afterward.
First you're incredibly regressive (say, dealing with reproductive rights) and then you do something pretty cool.
And it's now been found - the elusive Texas brain cell. Formerly as hidden as the Higgs Boson.
All of these questions about what requires a warrant should be obvious. If civilians can do it without any special authorization, then it's fine for law enforcement to do it. If law enforcement expects special access due to their authority, then that special access needs a warrant.
Any exceptions should be clearly stated in law, such as access to criminal and DMV databases.
_eral US search and destroy drone program possibly to be soon implemented across the country.
To avoid Big Brother for at least a little longer.
Take this sig and smoke it.
Are you kidding? While I think this has little to do with the discussion, your statement is completely idiotic. The United States was attacked on 9/11. Texas is a small (albeit larger than most) part of the whole. We all got hit.
Typo...
Take this sig and smoke it.
So let's innocents pay for the sinners, well thought
Sometimes it's better not having signature
While we're on the topic of warrantless wiretaps, there's something I've been trying to figure out.
Bush starts the warrantless wiretap thing, the reaction from the left is to fume with anger at the horrible abuse of power.
Obama continues it and adds in the whole "assassinate Americans using robotic aircraft" twist, and reaction from the same people is "I support the President on this, though I have mild reservations on a few aspects".
My question is... what the heck is up with that?
If this is a state law then I would expect it would control the state law enforcement agencies. But would it be able to stop the federal law enforcement agencies from doing whatever they wanted?
Interesting that they're big on personal liberty when it comes to this, but yet they're so biased in favour of patent holders in the Eastern District
I'm sure some other poster has stated this already, but this would not apply to federal paperwork. So a 2703(d), Title III or Title 50 (FISA) order would all still be able to get location data legally...
Oh We are all really dumb conservatives down here. Terrible place don't move here.
Radio transmitters are regulated by FCC, so the State will just claim "Federal pre-emption" and decline to enforce, or the cell carriers will drag State in to court to argue "jurisdiction".
In any case, DHS (and others) will simply claim to be exempt from State regulation.
A lot of people are confused about how this sort of law could be passed in Texas, which according to left-wing groupthink is a regressive bible-thumping gun-toting desert filled with rednecks who hate Darwin and force kids to pray in school.
This, of course, is nonsense. Much of the anti-Texas sentiment results from fundamental ideological differences that go to the core of the "left" versus "right" arguments.
Texans, for very valid historical reasons, have a deep seated mistrust of centralized government and authority. This can be seen in pretty much every part of our culture, especially our constitution and court systems. This way of thinking, of course, is a direct attack on everything that those on the "left" believe in. Even worse, the evidence clearly shows that our way of governing and beliefs work very well - from tort reform, to right to work, to zero income tax (just to name a few) we have a state that cherishes individual liberty, resists government interference, and we have one of the best economies in the world to show for it.
The success of Texas is a sore tooth to those on the "left". As a result, they are forced to rely on ad-hominem attacks and mischaracterization in a defensive attempt to protect and justify their beliefs, even though even casual comparisons of the success of cities and states that implement those beliefs shows that they are clearly misguided.
The fact is, disturbing as it may seem to those on the "left", Texas is beautiful, tolerant, friendly and a wonderful place to live. I moved my family here from the east coast seven years ago, and it was one of the best decisions we've ever made.
This law is just another example (among many) of Texas following in its long tradition of codifying individual rights and protecting liberties. Yes, Texas has some black marks in it's history - but show me a state (or country) that doesn't!
There is a reason why people from all over the country are flooding here, and why we gained four seats in the house in 2010. As much vitriol, misrepresentation and flat out lying that those on the "left" do about Texas, the truth is becoming more and more evident to those around the country, that just as once the United States was the place that people fled to in order to escape oppressive government, now Texas has become a safe haven within the U.S. for the same reasons.
Drinking habits can be dangerous. You can choke on the cloth and the nuns will wonder where their clothes are.
Spying on Texas citizens? A-OK.
Spying on Texas businesses? NO WAY
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
US's activities wrt Europe should show you how it will work.
The US companies with a presence in the EU cannot hand over to the US government private information. To withold it is a crime in the USA. The companies with a presence in the USA do what the USA demands.
It will be the same with Texas.
Most abortions are done with pills and shots. Hardly "chopping up babies" as you put it. Your anecdotal evidence goes against what statistics say. I agree that the government should not pay for a lot of things but paying for an abortion is a LOT cheaper than the 18 years of welfare, WIC, and food stamps that will ensue.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
With nationwide public hotspot networks appearing (the payphone hotspots come to mind) it's trivial with wifi radios to keep tabs on clients making probe requests for networks, and can be far more accurate in pinpointing and tracking a device's location in real time.
Federal law trumps state law. this was nothing more than a hissy fit.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
assumption being wrong.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
"oh, but I can't show you the data, it's classified." meaning "I can't turn this boat on a dime, and frankly, it would spill my drink if I could."
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
Yea, if you are liberal... Don't come here and ruin it for the rest of us... :)
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
But now how will NCIS find their buddies when they visit Texas? That's their favorite way to look up someone
was Texas when the executive drastically expanded its surveillance powers after 9/11? It's different when their guy isn't in office.
So let me get this straight, when Texan's were fighting along side all the other service men and women ... you ignore that, but you pick that they didn't actually have an airplane fly into their building?
You're such a douche. Next time you get your ass handed too you, you go deal with it all by your lonesome. Texas and the rest of the world will leave you to solve your own problems.
Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
GO TEXAS!
This is not a bad thing mind you. One of the abundant problems is "secret" intrusion in the lives of random folk based on trivial linkage on social graphs or the mining of common key words to identify individuals of interest. We see how silly this can get as six year old kids get taken to task for doodles or imaginary attacks by space aliens.
If you rotate "LOL" clockwise it looks like handgun, target, handgun. Oh my, expel the child that types LOL. N.B. zero tolerance policy in schools is an obfuscation for intolerance. Intolerance by the powers that be.... it does not teach negotiation, it does not teach listening, it teaches bullying to the next generation of police men, teachers and others in positions of power.
All in all this is a good thing. I might note that Texas has real issues from the South with fall out from the War on Drugs. The WoD has turned some border towns (both sides) into war zones which is a bad thing. Knowing this, this move by Texas is a brave thing in the defense of personal privacy and human rights.
Privacy and human rights brings me to R v. W and abortion. The recent law in Arkansas inserts the gvment into the murky early days and weeks of pregnancy where natural abortion and miscarriage is common and for many a too often sad outcome. R v. W with its anchor in privacy lets a family keep the pain of a miscarriage in the family and out of criminal courts.
What does R v. W have to do with this subject... heck track anyone and flag those that stop at a location that provides early prenatal care and yes abortion services free to the poor and slap them with abortion law violations. Tie them up in court lay bare indiscretions, foolishness, rape victims, serious medical genetic risks. Oh, and then release individuals from protective custody and suicide watch 15-30 weeks later so the state does not have to pay medical bills for the prisoner.
Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities; Truth isn't. Mark Twain.
More on Texas you seemed to have mysteriously overlooked:
Rampant entrenched homophobia
http://law.onecle.com/texas/penal/21.06.00.html
4th highest crime rate:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_cities_by_crime_rate
Taxes:
Do you known the different between Ca. Taxes and Texas actual tax rates? 1.3%. whoopee save 1.3% and have substantial lower dynamic atmosphere, economy, and services.
Population:
The people moving out of the state are wealthier than those moving in.
Health:
The most polluting state.
Science denialism through out the culture.
AGW and Evolution is frowned upon.
religion:
They constantly force others to have to deal with christian beliefs, while having their own ignored.
Education:
Ranked last in the nation.
By every metric living in Texas is worse then pretty much every where else.
hee-fucking-haw.
Not, on to the bill at hand.
yes, it's a example on how Texas will create do nothing bills to make themselves look good, and an example of how Texans can't actually read a bill.
"—Notwithstanding any other
5 provision of this chapter, it shall not be unlawful for an
6 officer, employee, or agent of the United States in the nor-
7 mal course of the official duty of the officer, employee,
8 or agent to conduct electronic surveillance, as authorized
9 by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (50
10 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.)."
SO it doesn't nothing for anyone who may fall under those broad terms..but wait, there is more:
"IN GENERAL.—It shall not be unlawful
13 under this chapter for a governmental entity to
14 intercept, use, or disclose geolocation information
15 pertaining to an individual if that individual has
16 given prior consent to that governmental entity for
17 such interception, use or disclosure. "
SO anyone pressured into giving consents
and:
"CHILDREN.—A parent or legal guardian of
19 a child may consent on behalf of a child for the pur-
20 poses of paragraph "
I will assume that by children, they mean minors. But any law enforcement agency can pressure consent.
"It shall
22 not be unlawful under this chapter for a governmental en-
23 tity to intercept or access geolocation information per-
24 taining to an individual through any system that is config
1 ured so that such information is readily accessible to the
2 general public"
SO if it's in the open, they can intercept it.
AND this is farther down, the section is lengthy so I didn't want to post it.
"‘‘(II) conspiratorial activities
11 threatening the national security in-
12 terest; or"...
"‘‘(ii) requires geolocation information
16 be intercepted or used before an order au-
17 thorizing such interception or use can, with
18 due diligence, be obtained;"
AND
"EXCEPTIONS.—A person providing covered serv-
24 ices may disclose geolocation information—"
Yeah, your a shining example of how Texas blindly go along with anything that as the word Texas on it, well done.
Relevvant links
http://lofgren.house.gov/images/stories/pdf/online%20communications%20and%20geolocation%20protection%20act%20-%20lofgren%20-%20030413.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Act
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Texas objected to the TSA so the federal government threatened to shut the state down. Texans shut-up very quickly. Seceding from the Union is obviously a big step, but Texas can't fight the destruction of civil liberties by passing laws that contradict Congress.
look hard? bwahahaha
Rampant entrenched homophobia
4th highest crime rate:
Taxes:
Do you known the different between Ca. Taxes and Texas actual tax rates? 1.3%. whoopee save 1.3% and have substantial lower dynamic atmosphere, economy, and services.
Population:
The people moving out of the state are wealthier than those moving in.
Health:
The most polluting state.
Science denialism throughout the culture.
AGW and Evolution for starter.
religion:
They constantly force others to have to deal with christian beliefs, while having their own ignored.
Education:
Ranked last in the nation.
Both have the same min wage, Texas has FAR less services for the low income.
So while you 'have more' in Texas, you need to spend it no more to get the same services.
""Victory or Death!""
I notice you lost and didn't all die.
Texas, blowhard capital of the world.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
The for sale and the sold
While we're on the topic of warrantless wiretaps, there's something I've been trying to figure out.
Bush starts the warrantless wiretap thing, the reaction from the left is to fume with anger at the horrible abuse of power.
Obama continues it and adds in the whole "assassinate Americans using robotic aircraft" twist, and reaction from the same people is "I support the President on this, though I have mild reservations on a few aspects".
My question is... what the heck is up with that?
Well, there's the fact that when Bush did it it was clearly and unambiguously against the law. I freely admit that part bothered me no end. Of course, once the warrantless wiretapping became public knowledge Congress quickly passed a retroactive bill that supposedly legitimized the practice and made everything all hunky dory. Now, that law still doesn't make warrantless wiretapping right or even constitutional in my book, and I'm no big fan of a lot of what the Obama administration has done, to say nothing about my mixed feelings about the man himself... But, this does help explain why the issue was a much bigger deal to many people when Bush got caught doing it. It's the difference between a politician you hate who nonetheless gets fairly elected, and that same hated politician rigging an election in order to win. Nobody likes it when the first happens, but the latter tends to really piss people off.
Well, i'm Tony, and I speak for ALL liberals. I asked, they're OK with me speaking for them.
We're NOT ok with Obama's continuing of the warrantless wiretapping, and we're NOT ok with the whole "assassinate Americans without a trial" (robots or no). We're actually pretty pissed about it. If you listened to us at all, you'd have noticed that.
Actually, I'm pretty pissed at the Democratic party. I can count on my fingers the number of representatives that I consider to be liberal. The rest are just... well look, you have the same thing over there. There's often a big difference from the stances the Republican Party holds and the stances of an actual real conservative person.
Remember, we're people too. Not stereotypes. You Hick. :P
There shouldn't be any location data without a warrant, except for one. It should be unlocked in every phone that anyone calling 911 should have (if available) the longitude and latitude as a data stream available to the emergency responders. I don't mind having a switch on the phone that blocks that service (so you can set it if you really want to), but as a default it should be available. Just the one number. Phone 911 and by default, they can tell where you are. There are too many people calling emergency services who don't know where they are, and just need help. Its automatic with wired service.
"Texas, which according to left-wing groupthink is a regressive bible-thumping gun-toting desert filled with rednecks who hate Darwin and force kids to pray in school." -- hey, you just perfectly described my whole extended family from southeast Texas! I've been here 40+ years ...