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The Hypocrisy In Silicon Valley's Big Talk On Innovation

glowend writes "James Temple writes in the San Francisco Chronicle: 'In the fall of 2011, Max Levchin took the stage at a TechCrunch conference to lament the sad state of U.S. innovation. "Technology innovation in this country is somewhere between dire straits and dead," said the PayPal co-founder, later adding: "The solution is actually very simple: You have to aim almost ridiculously high." But for all the funding announcements, product launches, media attention and wealth creation, most of Silicon Valley doesn't concern itself with aiming "almost ridiculously high." It concerns itself primarily with getting people to click on ads or buy slightly better gadgets than the ones they got last year.' I feel like this may be true as more money and MBA types invade the Silicon Valley. There's a lot of 'me-too' startups with some of the best and brightest figuring out ways to sell me stuff rather the working on flying cars."

208 comments

  1. First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

    And other bright minds are trying to find ways to get the first post.

    1. Re:First Post by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      You got that half right.

    2. Re:First Post by ilsaloving · · Score: 1, Funny

      Me-too first post!

    3. Re:First Post by tonywong · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why hasn't /. checksummed the ACs IPs on their end so we can ignore specific Anonymous Cowards by IP address without knowing their IP? That's not innovation either but pretty much a simple solution where I don't need to know who is posting other than that I don't want to see their posts.

    4. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why hasn't /. checksummed the ACs IPs on their end so we can ignore specific Anonymous Cowards by IP address without knowing their IP? That's not innovation either but pretty much a simple solution where I don't need to know who is posting other than that I don't want to see their posts.

      Maybe they assume that responsible adult people can handle reading a word they don't like. Free speech does mean other people might say things you don't like and free speech is more than worth it.

      Or said responsible adults can set their threshold to either 0 or 1.

      These are constructive solutions. Your whining isn't. Tell you what, first try doing what you can do about it. If that fails, then and only then do you have a valid complaint (for distorted values of "valid" that include "can't handle reading a mere word"). It's called being a man.

      I mean, if you want a censored experience there are other sites for that. Perhaps you could try those.

    5. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because IP addresses do not identify individuals.

    6. Re:First Post by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      Free speech doesn't guarantee you a platform to speak.

    7. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And I posit that the so-called best and brightest only got that way due to being hired and given the opportunity to prove themselves over a significant period of time. Innovation and Silicon Valley are polar opposites for a two decades already. All I hear is screaming MBAs demanding more cheap labour from India in particular. I have worked with hundreds of the so-called best-and-brightest - they are mediocre at best and often lack the very skills on which the employment visa was issued. Poppycock and a box of rocks!

    8. Re:First Post by redbeardcanada · · Score: 1

      Checksums aren't unique; multiple IP addresses could map to the same checksum result unless your checksum is the same size as your IP address, which would likely make it easy to figure out the IP address.

    9. Re:First Post by OakDragon · · Score: 1

      Why hasn't /. checksummed the ACs IPs on their end so we can ignore specific Anonymous Cowards by IP address without knowing their IP? That's not innovation either but pretty much a simple solution where I don't need to know who is posting other than that I don't want to see their posts.

      Actually, they're working on a Kickstarter campaign to fund this change!

    10. Re:First Post by suutar · · Score: 1

      if you think 'hash' instead of 'checksum', md5 is fast, generates enough bits to avoid collisions (in fact, enough bits for /. to mix in the blocker's UID and a couple of bytes of secret salt to help prevent exhaustive searches), and despite having some weaknesses in the collision resistance, is still quite solid against hash->source backtracking.

      The hard part, I would think, would be adding database space for the per-account block list.

    11. Re:First Post by pclminion · · Score: 2

      Maybe they assume that responsible adult people can handle reading a word they don't like. Free speech does mean other people might say things you don't like and free speech is more than worth it.

      Ah, the old "Free speech means I can say whatever I want and you don't get to say anything back" argument. You have a special kind of stupidity, it's quite remarkable.

      Providing a hash of the IP address preserves anonymity while allowing users to ignore each other if they see fit. Being able to do things you want to do, like ignore somebody else, is called "freedom." You see, freedom applies to all parties involved. You're free to be an idiot. I'm free to suggest a technological measure that would allow me personally to filter out your bullshit. Slashdot is free to ignore the suggestion. Freedom for everyone! Awesome, isn't it?

      Another technical measure to avoid hearing speech you don't like, is to put your hands over your ears. Care to present an argument against that one? An argument that doesn't involve infringing my freedom to put my hands over my ears?

    12. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You see, freedom applies to all parties involved. You're free to be an idiot. I'm free to suggest a technological measure that would allow me personally to filter out your bullshit.

      Yes, you are free to do that the wrong way.

      I don't need technology to filter out bad speech. I do that with my mind and with my heart. And I am much more satisfied in doing so than anyone complaining about the lack of IP hashing.

    13. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Another technical measure to avoid hearing speech you don't like, is to put your hands over your ears.

      Which is universally perceived as childish. For a reason.

      Care to present an argument against that one? An argument that doesn't involve infringing my freedom to put my hands over my ears?

      Sure thing. As a mature adult, I am able to gracefully accept that people will say things I don't like. I don't need to protect myself from bad speech. I don't need to physically block my ears. I don't need to technologically block users. I simply don't allow what random strangers say to affect my emotions. I see someone saying an offensive word the same way I might see that someone else is wearing a blue tie.

      I might see some AC post the n-word or whatever. I move on to something I feel like responding to. What I won't do is give them the attention and outrage that motivates them to post such things in the first place. Not because I didn't see it, for I am an adult. But because the particular combination of letters someone else writes is not a threat to me in any way. I don't need to be protected from things that are not a threat in any way.

      What you seem to want is an alternative to emotionally growing up. You don't want to learn patience and grace. You want to never hear anything that would test your patience and grace. This is cowardice. Sure, be a coward. I won't try to stop you. But I won't be joining you, nor will I cry out for methods that make being a coward easier.

      I am sorry but what you thought was an Ultimate Irrefutable Argument is merely your way of never growing up and learning to handle things you disagree with. You have lots of company, of course. The mature adult is a rarer and rarer sight these days. Lots of people will mod me down for saying this because overgrown children resent being told that they should grow up and they find some kind of retaliation the easiest way to handle it. I am sure they will mod you up as well, for supporting and making them more comfortable in their cowardice. Good thing popularity never determined truth.

    14. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, so someone didn't like the way the question was formed. But the point is still valid.

      "Free speech does not guarantee you a platform" is a valid argument when someone is whining about how some forum denied them the ability to post. But as an argument when someone is whining about how some forum is not denying other people the ability to post? It just does not make sense!

    15. Re:First Post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this would work. Because, after all, there isn't any way one can:
      1. Forge the source IP
      2. Change the source IP if issued by DHCP
      3. Change the source IP if static
      4. Change the source IP by moving to another ISP (e.g. Starbucks to, well, anywhere)

      And it would work perfectly, because even if you COULD change your IP, then someone else who posts on Slashdot would NEVER get it.

      bah, someone mod the original poster down as troll. And I fell for it. Damn.

    16. Re:First Post by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      And let me guess, on every IPv6 story you comment that they can pry NAT from your cold dead hands?

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    17. Re:First Post by pclminion · · Score: 1

      As a mature adult, I am able to gracefully accept that people will say things I don't like. I don't need to protect myself from bad speech. I don't need to physically block my ears. I don't need to technologically block users. I simply don't allow what random strangers say to affect my emotions.

      What a load of self-righteous horseshit. This isn't about protecting our fragile ears, it's about personal fucking preferences.

      Isn't it interesting that you post as AC while saying all this. It's almost as if you want to prevent people from automatically filtering you out. You're the guy who goes out of his way to act like a douche and then gets all uppity about his rights when people call him on his douche-baggery. And you do so anonymously so that there is no consequence for you when that happens.

      You're the coward, kid.

    18. Re:First Post by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 1

      Well let me add my 2 cents here, and as you can see, I'm posting as myself so that you can feel free to block me and insulate your tiny little eggshell thick world from all the people that say things your brain can't handle. p.Actually, fuck it, I'm not gonna bother explaining it anymore than the AC did. He got it right and you should learn to filter, otherwise you'll never survive in the real world.

      --
      Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
  2. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's all, really. This is bullshit.

  3. how do you make money if you don't sell anything? by alen · · Score: 0

    i mean i can't believe there aren't hordes of VC's just waiting to invest in companies that don't have any sales or revenues.

    advertising has always been about targeting your ads. we gone from the 18-49 demographic to targeting advertising to as a few as a few dozen people. what's the point of marketing something to people who will never have an interest in buying your product?

    silicon valley has always been about incremental improvements, periodic revolutions in tech followed by dozens of me too investments

  4. Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by onyxruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Look back at the innovative days of Silicon Valley and pick something, anything you can think of and think of what would happen if you were to try and perform the same thing again today. You could never do it, because overzealous IP has killed all American engineering innovation. Many products now spend a significant amount of their budget on patent attorneys and cross license costs. You simply cannot innovate in today's climate as things presently stand.

    Some simple ideas that would help protect IP and turn the tide back for innovation:

    A patent fee, every patent that is held by an organization (or it's parents organization) doubles in costs.
    - Allows the small time inventory to register patents without undue cost while adding some measure of expense to patent warchest building.

    A patent tax, every patent is taxed at a rate that makes large patent war-chests financially unfeasible.
    - You can cripple IP trolls on this by increasing the tax for a patent that is not in active production.

    Shortening the length of time that a patent is good for based on the type of patent.
    - Decreasing a patent's shelf life to 5 years would probably do more to free up the IP logjams than any other thing.

    Make RAND rates standardized for everyone and don't allow them to be offset.
    - Everyone pays the same RAND rates and if your patent is essential than anyone can license it at a fixed and /reasonable/ rate.

    End massive patent paydays like Apple's recent billion dollar court win.
    - Reform the financial benefits for 'going nuclear' and seeking large court settlements for patent violations and make the penalties fixed.

    1. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      In all the discussions about the evils of the "private" sector one factor is conveniently overlooked: large institutional investors in the form of public sector pension funds which are desperately seeking excess profits to make good on political promises to government retirees. Most of these funds based their actuarial projections on permanent 8% growth, which anyone who knows what an exponent is can tell you is impossible. An investment that grows at a rate faster than the economy would eventually need to be more than 100% of the economy.

      You want to know where the push to increase margins at all cost and quarter-by-quarter thinking came from? Large institutional investors demanding the impossible because somebody thought it was possible to legislate math.

    2. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you even read the article?

    3. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. There is more innovation now than there has ever been. The fact that you can't freely copy it doesn't mean that things are unduly restricted, it just means you have an ass-backwards notion of what innovation means.

    4. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by 0123456 · · Score: 3

      Bullshit. There is more innovation now than there has ever been.

      Most people aren't really impressed by 'innovation' in tracking you better to stuff more ads down your web browser.

      They'd rather have those flying cars, which patents and lawyers make a near-impossibility even if the tech was affordable.

    5. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Darth+Snowshoe · · Score: 3, Informative

      "public sector pension funds which are desperately seeking excess profits to make good on political promises to government retirees."

      A pension is not a political promise. A pension, whether in the public or private sectors, is an agreement between employer and employees.

    6. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This post deserves the most brilliant mother fucker on earth today award, and I ain't being sarcastic.
      We need to remix all our shit or things are going to be dry save for a few gems out there.

      Nobody want's to do jack shit because it ain't worth it now.

      While you all have your opinions on why this is happening, I think it's because Oath breakers allowed banksters to create money from nothing, steal and kill right to this very day, in short the moment the US Constitution and Bill of Rights was undermined by what ever gaggle of words and bullshit fuckin lies

    7. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Some simple ideas that would help protect IP and turn the tide back for innovation:

      A few others ideas:

      - Make it easy and cheap to file defensive patents. So you own the idea, and nobody can stop you from exploiting it, but you cannot stop anyone else from exploiting it as well.

      - Make the "patent tax" exponential. So it starts out small. The first few year you may pay, say, a $100 renewal fee. Then it doubles to $200/yr, then $400/yr .... The result will be that bad patents are abandoned after a few years, while good patents earn money for both the innovator and the government that grants the monopoly.

    8. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Typical Slashdot bullshit. Patents got us from before the scientific revolution to the moon. But because your stupid fucking operating system rips ideas off everyone else, you want to chuck the whole fucking system - give the crown jewels to china - because your idea of innovation is to copy fucking everything that someone else does. Innovation happens when inventers are rewarded. Not when inventions are copied by open source retards who can't actually come up with novel ideas themselves.

    9. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      A pension, whether in the public or private sectors, is an agreement between employer and employees.

      Not where I live (Pennsylvania). All sorts of laws trump what can be negotiated with certain types of occupations. For instance, if you hire a public school teacher, you must use the state pension system and you must give them tenure after 3 years. So in some cases, it is as much political as it is negotiated.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    10. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Insightful

      *sigh* Another capitalist-idiot-pig who doesn't understand Civilization is built upon the sharing of ideas.

      Who invented Mathematics, Trigonometry, Boolean Algebra, Computer Science, Calculus, Language, again? Oh wait, they are LONG DEAD and we _all_ benefit from them sharing their discoveries without having to pay idiotic patent / license fees.

    11. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by SlippyToad · · Score: 2

      Politicians bribe government workers in exchange for votes with benefits that are paid for by money taken from other people who have no say in the matter.

      And now we've gotten down to the nadir of right-wing stupidity here on Slashdot.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    12. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 0

      Exactly which part of what I said is not true?

    13. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Politicians bribe government workers in exchange for votes with benefits that are paid for by money taken from other people who have no say in the matter.

      Who has no say in the matter? Don't they vote too? Agreed that pensions are a problem but turning it into some kine of nefarious quid pro quo just makes you sound like a pundit. Let me guess, you always vote down one side of the aisle. If so, you are part of the problem.

    14. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      Let me guess, you always vote

      No, I'm an atheist. I gave up on prayer along with other assorted superstitions.

    15. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by hazem · · Score: 1

      Have you actually spent time with government employees?

      Because if what you say is true ("Politicians bribe government workers in exchange for votes with benefits") then there wold be very few right-wingers in government jobs. They'd all be left-wingers because that's the side that's not trying to take away their pay and benefits.

      However, in any group of government workers I've been around, it's generally split pretty evenly. Unless I'm in a rural area, then they tend to be mostly right-wing.

    16. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by idontgno · · Score: 1

      To be honest, "negotiated" could include more than the stereotypical labor bargaining process between the leadership of the worker bargaining unit ("Union negotiator") and representatives of the hiring organization's management ("Management negotiator"). Public service unions have always had the alternative of negotiating with their Management counterparts' bosses: legislators. Most people would call that "lobbying" but the means and goals are the same as plain-ol' bargaining. And it's probably more effective.

      I mean, if you had could persuade, bargain, or bribe access to people who can pre-empt the folks across the table from you, wouldn't you use it? It's almost the ultimate leverage.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    17. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spending mod points so posting AC: You are the problem, not the solution. Sadly you believe all the bullshit rhetoric about your vote not counting if you don't vote for a R or a D. It's really a shame that people like you pollute civilization. From your other posts, you seem to just pick and choose which pieces of bullshit rhetoric you need to maintain your horrid belief system.

      Read your Constitution and learn some fucking history. Read Plato's Republic and get an understanding of the blueprint for your Government. Or don't, stay a complete fool and watch the US collapse. Apathy changes nothing.

    18. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by nnnnnnn · · Score: 1

      , because overzealous IP has killed all American engineering innovation

      Hah, like there was no IP in the good old days? You do realize that the integrated circuit, building blocks of every electronic device, was heavily IP'ed.

      From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_circuit)

      The idea of integrating electronic circuits into a single device was born, when the German physicist and engineer Werner Jacobi (de) developed and patented the first known integrated transistor amplifier in 1949 and the British radio engineer Geoffrey Dummer proposed to integrate a variety of standard electronic components in a monolithic semiconductor crystal in 1952. A year later, Harwick Johnson filed a patent for a prototype integrated circuit (IC) ....

      Newly employed by Texas Instruments, Kilby recorded his initial ideas concerning the integrated circuit in July 1958, successfully demonstrating the first working integrated example on 12 September 1958.[10] In his patent application of 6 February 1959, Kilby described his new device as “a body of semiconductor material ... wherein all the components of the electronic circuit are completely integrated.”[11]

      Robert Noyce of Fairchild Semiconductor invented a way to connect the IC components (aluminium metallization) and proposed an improved version of insulation based on the planar technology by Jean Hoerni. On September 27, 1960, using the ideas of Noyce and Hoerni, a group of Jay Last at Fairchild Semiconductor created the first operational semiconductor IC. Texas Instruments, which held the patent for the Kilby's invention, started a patent war, which was settled in 1966 by the agreement on cross-licensing.

    19. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by next_ghost · · Score: 1

      The fact that you can't freely copy it doesn't mean that things are unduly restricted, it just means you have an ass-backwards notion of what innovation means.

      Yes it does. I challenge you to try inventing something new for example in physics without touching just four things: general relativity, quantum mechanics, thermodynamics and electromagnetism. Hint: It's impossible because those four things encompass all of known physics (hell, even general relativity and quantum mechanics alone would be enough but whatever). Just to find a completely new field of physics for yourself where you could be free of this arbitrary restriction, you'd have to start in one of the four thus failing the task.

      Innovation always builds on the past. If you can't copy, you can't build on the past. If you can't build on the past, you can't innovate. And if you only allow the big players to innovate, you'll get cool and shiny stagnation.

    20. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Most people would call that "lobbying" but the means and goals are the same as plain-ol' bargaining.

      Whatever it's called, there's no denying it is "political", which is the point I was trying to make.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    21. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by cpt+kangarooski · · Score: 1

      Well, flying cars is a particularly dangerous example. They're all well and gold so long as you have the only one, but who wants to risk having other people with flying cars overhead?

      --
      -- This and all my posts are in the public domain. I am a lawyer. I am not your lawyer, and this is not legal advice.
    22. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course the left wing does nothing about it other than wanting to take people's guns as a political coup.

      Guess both sides have stock in the Geo Group.

    23. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by farble1670 · · Score: 2

      They'd rather have those flying cars, which patents and lawyers make a near-impossibility even if the tech was affordable.

      the problem with flying cars will never go away: if there's a malfunction, YOU DIE. that's why it will never happen. that, and flying will always take significantly more fuel than rolling something along the ground.

    24. Re:Innovation has been killed by overzealous IP by Common+Joe · · Score: 1

      I would add that a company who files a patent should be required to allow every other company to use the patent. The amount of money for use of the patent would be equal for every company that uses it. Determining how much that would be is the only hang up to the idea.

  5. When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by Gr33nJ3ll0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is no room for failure. Without failure, and the ability to take risks, you'll get a lot of me too ish. Silicon Valley thrived when it was cheap to fail, now that it nolonger is you need to look to other places. I'd expect something more radical outta Detroit (where the buildings are almost free) or Kansas City, with the Google Fiber, than the Valley.

    1. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A two bedroom home for $500k? OMG tell me where! That's practically free by Bay Area standards.

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    2. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      A two bedroom home for $500k? OMG tell me where! That's practically free by Bay Area standards.

      Take that 10th Ave exit from I-280 and head south, past "Little Saigon", into the Hispanic areas of south San Jose. You can find plenty of houses for less than $500k.

    3. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except no sensible person wants to live in either Detroit or Kansas City. ESPECIALLY Detroit.

      I was casually browsing real estate in Detroit a couple weeks ago. Mansions in Indian Hills are $50,000. $50K. We're talking HUGE houses (4,000+ square feet). That's not even imaginable in California context even in the Southeastern part of the State - i.e., Mojave, Palm Springs, extreme desert - where real estate is relatively inexpensive. Anything that is remotely coastal in California is just major, major bucks. That is life in the Golden State.

      I live in the Bay Area and it's very challenging to find rents below $2,000/mo for a 3BR house or apartment and I am in the North Bay above Marin County (which of course as America's "richest zip code" is VERY expensive) where rents are lower but still not what I would call affordable unless you're making very little money and can get into subsidized housing (a long and tedious process for the terminally impoverished, which thankfully we're not).

      I've often pondered moves to Texas, Georgia, Arizona, Nevada where homes are half or a third the cost of homes in California but I just can't get over the hump of the weather - either too hot or too cold (I've heard those are called "seasons"). The weather in general within 100 miles of the coast of California is very, very hard to beat (unless you live in Hawaii but then you want to talk expensive).

      I was born here, I've lived here most of my life, and have visited many places around the country. While I could adapt probably to other parts of the country I don't think I'd ever really like living somewhere else and I think I'd feel trapped because the cost of moving BACK to California is very high when you've lived elsewhere.

      In short, I'll take the insane rents / mortgages in trade for a certain kind of climate, geography, and general economic opportunity that is very hard to beat.

    4. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by inode_buddha · · Score: 1

      In Buffalo NY you can buy a duplex (2-units) and rent out the other half, effectively having the renters pay your mortgage. For less than 50K. Easily. And we sit on top of some major fiber downtown. Plenty of culture and nightlife here, too, loads of music food and brew..

      --
      C|N>K
    5. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go North up into Oakland and get a fixer for $100k; but most of the good ones were grabbed a couple years ago by flippers who put no work into them and are now asking 50-100% more than what they paid. I love how Redfin posts the histories right there to embarrass these profiteers. Some of them sit there for a while. The buyers are getting smarter, a better sense of value and not just listening to the "your payments will be so low" mantra. If I found a house that I really wanted with that kind of history, I'd calculate 8% annual return from their purchase date and reasonable transactions costs, and then I'd tell the flipper how I arrived at what they would call a "low ball" offer.

    6. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I love how Redfin posts the histories right there to embarrass these profiteers.

      Why would they be embarrassed? If someone had the judgement and foresight to buy at the bottom of the market, when everyone else was panicking, they should be proud of it. And the rest of us should be appreciative. These are the people that kept the housing market from sliding even more. If there were more people like this, the housing crisis and the ensuing recession would have been much less severe.

    7. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by istartedi · · Score: 1

      You're missing the guy's point. In the Bay Area you'll have a rainy day in the Winter. The morning after that rain you can do several things:

      1. Short drive to the coast, maybe an hour. Spectacular surfing, or just general viewing of amazing coastal views. Temperature -- 50 F, 60F, sunny. Usually pleasant enough if you wear a sweater and a hat, sometimes even a bit balmy if high pressure builds in afterwords.

      2. Several hours to Tahoe area. Amazing snow, every bit as snowy as Buffalo. Amazing ski resorts to go with that. Good idea to wait until after it stops because the traffic will be ferocious; but they do a pretty good job keeping it clear.

      3. Short drive or public transit to stuff in San Francisco. High culture, restaurants, sporting events. You name it. If you're into sports, Winter or Summer your team actually has a chance of going all the way. A very good chance. Two world series in 3 years, W00t! OK, that's not Winter; but I digress...

      Same day in Buffalo: If you can dig yourself out, you can ski... I think.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    8. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by scamper_22 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What it really boils down to is having enough cash flow to freely innovate.

      So yes, it means Joe the Plumber being able to afford cheap housing and life to be cheap enough for him to take a few years off 'regular' work to pursue his dream. Let's not discount this. People like Thomas Edison basically pursued this model. He worked pretty regular clerk like jobs to then work on his inventions in his off time.

      At the corporate level, it means having stable cash-flow.
      Microsoft Research for example is able to do all kinds of wonky things basically because Microsoft has a big STABLE cash cow to fund regular operations.

      Google is able to throw money at all kinds of wonkey things like self-driving cars because it has very STABLE cash-flow with the ad business.

      If you see a big company doing innovative things, look to find the stable cash-cow to fund it.

      Back in the days, ATT used to do a lot of good research. Wait for it... the big STABLE cash-flow was a monopoly on the telecom sector. Government splits up ATT and kills the monopoly... and well Bell labs/ATT basically died and hasn't done anything.

      I'm much more in favor of so called monopolies as long as they are well regulated then most of my engineering people. This is not to say I support the model... just that, I don't see it as being that bad.

      Or at least, it is much better than the current model where venture capitalists funneled by cheap debt start random companies, hope it gains enough attention, then goes IPO, and no one sees any long term vision to being a researcher or engineer.

    9. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing wrong with a legitimately-achieved-and-maintained monopoly. AT&T (and Microsoft, and IBM) would have been fine if they hadn't begun to feel they had some kind of right to it. IBM learned, by comparison they're a tiny speck of a company now but working for IBM carries kudos again.

    10. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you thank oil speculators too? Oh, what a wonderful economy it is when essential items are expensive because somebody fished the bottom, then held it off the market to squeeze us. Please send me the addresses of some of these people so I can... umm... kiss them.

    11. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by Stiletto · · Score: 2

      Why is it when housing costs go down it's always called a "crisis"? As someone who is totally priced out of the house market, I'd welcome a 50% "correction" right about now.

    12. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by s.petry · · Score: 2

      AT&T would not allow competition, and was not updating anything which angered consumers. Service dropped constantly, quality was poor in most of the country, old lines would disconnect calls in light winds, etc.. Competition tried to step in, and was denied access to AT&T to ensure they would starve. AT&T was screwing customers as much as competition.

      So I can't agree with your statement regarding monopolies. One must completely ignore history in order to make such a delusional statement. Read the histories of every successful suit for Monopoly in the US and you might understand why we have Laws to prevent monopolization.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    13. Re:When a small 2 bedroom starter home is 500K+ by Stiletto · · Score: 1

      Bingo. The only thing between me and doing a start-up and/or going off and inventing something is CASH. A dummy with capital will always beat a smart person without.

  6. Is that wrong? by pushing-robot · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Computers have been getting "slightly better than last year" for a few decades now.

    Because of that, I'm now running a Quad i7 with a Geforce and a couple terabytes of SSD+HDD rather than a IBM PC with a monochrome adapter and two floppies.

    I'm not complaining.

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    1. Re:Is that wrong? by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      Yeah, I have 5 floppy drives now. Progress is great!

    2. Re:Is that wrong? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yeah, I have 5 floppy drives now. Progress is great!

      I thought we were talking computational technology, not biochemical and mutagenic.

    3. Re:Is that wrong? by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

      Computers have been getting "slightly better than last year" for a few decades now.

      Yes, but that sort of innovation is not the kind that gets VC's excited or makes headlines. More people hear about Google's or Facebooks latest geegaw than about MuGFET's, hi-k dielectrics, the challenges of the latest semi-process or improvements in OLED fab. That kind of innovation is largely done by big companies like Intel and Applied Materials. Personally I love small companies, but if you look at the economics, it makes most of that sort of important on-going development is done by large companies. Gone are the days when Fairchild Semi or Intel could get started for a few million. Maybe in a completely different field, but not there.

    4. Re:Is that wrong? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I'm installing you a flippy. ..|.

  7. It's less an article about by __aaeihw9960 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Silicon valley, and more about economic theory. Do free-markets drive the world in the right direction, or does the government? This, as in most things, seems to boil down to a compromise.

    We need agile markets, able to open and close companies overnight, therefore allowing for innovation, failure and re-birth. BUT, we also need big, slow-moving government to keep those businesses from harvesting short-term profits and dumping losses on investors/governments.

    The problems that we have today (a bit off topic here) are related to business being tied a bit too close to government. Why do we have the lowest congressional approval rating that I can remember? Because they all seem to be bought and sold by the same companies. In reality, though, they're not outright bought and sold, they're just trying to secure a sweet, sweet consulting deal after they retire from government. But I digress.

    This article isn't about the hypocrisy in silicon valley in particular, and more about the hypocrisy in people lauding free-market capitalism.

    1. Re:It's less an article about by fredprado · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And you have hit the nail on the head here. The problem is crony capitalism that is where we are heading too (and in many places already are). The excessive protection to big business IP and interests is what hinders any kind of innovation, and, as time progresses, laws keep being enacted to give them more and more power. There is no more need to innovate when you can control the markets by force of law. You can just slow crawl and make lots of cash.

    2. Re:It's less an article about by moeinvt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We need government to stop companies from dumping their losses on government? That makes no sense. How about we take wealth and power away from the government so they are in no position to cover losses or hand out favors at all?

      Imagine a federal government that was given 8% of annual GDP (roughly $1.2 trillion) to perform its duties and constrained by a balanced budget law. Let's see them do an $800 billion bailout of their banker friends on that budget.

    3. Re:It's less an article about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man you're an idiot, without government you just have de-facto dictatorship. i.e. money still rules. The idea that you can 'turn back government' is a lie they tell sheeple like you to keep your feelings against the governent instead of becoming anti-business/capitalist.

      Those with the gold make the rules.

    4. Re:It's less an article about by SlippyToad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      e. How about we take wealth and power away from the government

      Because then you're just giving that power to other people who will rape you and pillage from you and destroy everything you have for a quick buck.

      The government is us. One way to make sure it actually represents us is to not be lazy about using your right to vote, and informing yourself as to what is going on and why.

      Usually when I encounter your kind of thinking, I find people who are lazy in the brain, and therefore wildly misinformed.

      Imagine a federal government that was given 8% of annual GDP (roughly $1.2 trillion) to perform its duties and constrained by a balanced budget law

      Imagine a nation in complete collapse and disarray because their government can't do anything and cronies and bullies run it all for their own personal benefit.

      I notice people like you get the most upset when it looks like someone else is benefiting from government services. Someone with a particular tone of skin color, in point of fact, who you feel should be out in the fields working harder.

      I notice this even more amusingly when for example last week the POTUS cut white house tours short and all the right-wing jeering drooling idiots all started screaming. Apparently, cutting spending is only important when it's not for you.

      So, you can pardon me if I don't take your POV very seriously. I can tell you've never, ever, ever thought it through.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    5. Re:It's less an article about by geoffrobinson · · Score: 2

      $1.2 trillion federal + state + local == anarchy?

      --
      Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
    6. Re:It's less an article about by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      1. Define 'right direction'. Basically anything you can come up with, there will be a huge number of people that will not care or vehemently disagree.

      2. Are you seriously implying that government has a long term outlook while businesses do not? It's not even 2 years now that the politicians start their quest of the next election cycle. Of-course inheritance taxes pretty much destroyed the long term prospects for private companies while government created inflation prevents people from thinking in the long term completely in a more general way.

    7. Re:It's less an article about by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      Imagine a federal government that was given 8% of annual GDP (roughly $1.2 trillion) to perform its duties and constrained by a balanced budget law.

      We don't have to imagine that government: that's exactly what we had in the Hoover administration. Herbert Hoover, contrary to popular belief, responded to the stock market crash of 1929 ... by vigorously pursuing completely successful efforts to keep the federal budget balanced. The economy after a few years of that was why the country elected Franklin Roosevelt.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    8. Re:It's less an article about by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      You describe crony capitalism which is made possible by exessively big and powerful government and then you blame free-market capitalism. I think you are making a classic mistake of confusing support for capitalism with support for capitalists.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    9. Re:It's less an article about by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's rare to see someone post something so perfectly opposite of the truth.

      Herbert Hoover spent over $3 billion via the Reconstruction Finance Corporation to bail out Wall Street cronies, instead of letting them go bankrupt as Warren Harding did in 1920. That's why the 1930s depression did not end until a significant fraction of Europe's population was murdered and their industrial production destroyed while the 1920 depression only lasted 18 months.

      Unsurprisingly, Herbert Hoover was the Treasury Secretary in 1920 who argued for bailouts at the time but was ignored. When he was in charge and able to implement exactly what he advocated a decade before the Great Depression was the result.

    10. Re:It's less an article about by clarkkent09 · · Score: 1

      Fuck you for accusing someone of racism just because they disagree with you about the proper scope of government. Where the fuck do you see any mention of skin color in the gp post? Go back and comment on msnbc site where you belong you fucking asshole. Those morons see racism everywhere.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    11. Re:It's less an article about by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      Non-falsifiable accusations are a pretty standard way unethical people use to silence dissent when the truth is not on their side.

    12. Re:It's less an article about by Talderas · · Score: 1

      You mean cutting White House tours while at the same time the DHS put out an open PO for 1.6bn rounds of ammunition, spends $50m on new uniforms, and buys over 2,700 MRAPs?

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
    13. Re:It's less an article about by ensignyu · · Score: 2

      Not that I think that bailouts are a good idea, but I'd like to see some more factual analysis before saying that "X happened, therefore Y".

      The only definitive conclusion you can draw without more background is that the bailouts did not stop the Great Depression. But for all we know, the bailouts could have been ineffective with no impact on the economy, or perhaps the depression would have been even worse without the bailouts. Maybe the bailouts were too small.

      Maybe the economy was so badly screwed that the only thing that would restore it was massive government spending of 40-50% of GDP.

    14. Re:It's less an article about by dkleinsc · · Score: 1

      I'm happy to agree with you that bailouts did little to nothing to prevent economic catastrophe, and are a demonstrably stupid policy.

      Hoover was at the very least telling Congress that he was trying to balance the budget, as Brad DeLong at UC Berkeley points out. In doing so, he was following the economic wisdom of the day: Keep the budget balanced, and you'll build market confidence, which will allow the stock markets to bounce back, which will allow businesses to invest again, and then people will be hired, and all will be well. Hoover's counterparts in other countries, including Germany's Heinrich Bruning and Britain's Ramsey MacDonald, were pursuing similar policies.

      When the policies weren't working, John Maynard Keynes started trying to come up with a new theory, figuring that maybe the prevailing economic thinkers were understanding the problem incorrectly. Franklin Roosevelt was elected in 1932, started pursuing Keynes' policies in 1933, and GDP was back to pre-crisis levels (in nominal dollars at least) by 1940. That's why Keynesian economics was the dominant way of thinking right up until 1970's stagflation hit.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    15. Re:It's less an article about by dbIII · · Score: 1

      I see HP as a prime example since it's so closely tangled up with politics that people have come out of there and run for office (for example with a truly strange devil sheep ad that inspired "only in America" thoughts). Some of the things HP have been caught doing (eg. bugging their employees) would have landed somebody running a small business or running a government owned workplace in jail for some serious time. Their connections ensured the sort of treatment Magna Carta was supposed to stop back in King John's time - people that are above the law just because they have the right friends. Being beyond the law is not just for white house staff or government employees selling weapons to rogue states and terrorist groups anymore.

    16. Re:It's less an article about by dbIII · · Score: 1

      the bailouts could have been ineffective with no impact on the economy

      Europe is pretty close to screwed because they did a bailout and then a couple of years later found the money they had given away to bankers was required to keep things running.

    17. Re:It's less an article about by miroku000 · · Score: 2

      We need government to stop companies from dumping their losses on government? That makes no sense. How about we take wealth and power away from the government so they are in no position to cover losses or hand out favors at all?

      Imagine a federal government that was given 8% of annual GDP (roughly $1.2 trillion) to perform its duties and constrained by a balanced budget law. Let's see them do an $800 billion bailout of their banker friends on that budget.

      The problem is that business has too much power over government. And your solution is to give businesses more power? The government would just contract out all the services it provides to private companies and let them charge for it. Take the post office for example, the government would just sell it to private businesses and then the cost of mailing stuff would go up a lot. Instead of calling them taxes, they would instead become fees and could be given directly to private business. For example, if you want a new social security card, you just pay blackwater (or whoever is friends with the administration at the time) $1000 for it. And now, without government oversight, these businesses would just cut out the middle man and be corrupt all on their own.

    18. Re:It's less an article about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Herbert Hoover, contrary to popular belief, responded to the stock market crash of 1929 ... by vigorously pursuing completely successful efforts to keep the federal budget balanced.

      Nope. Herbert Hoover responded to the stock market crash by running deficits from 6/30/1930 on.

      Source: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo3.htm

    19. Re:It's less an article about by s.petry · · Score: 1

      Wow, you and the AC are the same person? Wholly shit you are wrong on so many level's I don't even know where to start. The Government should absolutely not be able to bail out banks or any other business. They should have regulations in place, and of course auditors to ensure regulations are being followed. This is what business taxes are supposed to pay for. They should also have legal means to jail CEOs of that make billions of dollars while the customer and investors money gets pissed away. More simply put, you are wrong.

      You are also confusing roles, and miss the point of the Republic. States have different responsibilities than the Federal Governments, which are different than City, County, and Township. Those separations were intentionally defined, yet you ignore them and lump everything under the Federal Govt. You accuse someone else of being lazy in the brain and seriously misinformed? Yeah, okay there mister dolt.. you keep right on thinking that. If you do continue to think that way, please keep your thoughts to yourself. Maybe if you get two thoughts in there they will bounce around and make a spark (yeah, I'm being an optimist).

      Keep ignoring how much money your feds spend on TSA, DHS, FEMA, etc.. etc.. and you just keep thinking it's all required to keep you safe from a bogey man. You keep thinking that anyone concerned with the size of the Government is a racist. I don't care that you are delusional, I care that you are making your delusions public.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    20. Re:It's less an article about by s.petry · · Score: 1

      It is not "Piggy Bank" or "Nothing" as you are implying with your argument from fallacy. The Government is supposed to be regulating (and enforcing those regulations). If they were actually doing what they were supposed to be doing, we would not be in the dire straights we are in today.

      You throw straw men in everything else you state, so I'm not going to state anything further.

      --

      -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    21. Re:It's less an article about by mvdwege · · Score: 2

      If the folks who care about 'the proper scope of government' did a better job of keeping the racism out of their ranks, they'd not have to worry about being accused of it so much.

      A few bad apples spoil the bunch, and I haven't seen the US libertarians do a good job of keeping the bad apples out. In point of fact they seem to lionise them (see: Ron Paul).

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    22. Re:It's less an article about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People need to understand that "Capitalism" does not mean "The government helps buisiness." That's actually the opposite of capitalism. Capitalism is "The government doesn't get in the buisiness of buisiness unless they have to."

    23. Re:It's less an article about by __aaeihw9960 · · Score: 1

      I'm going to agree with you on number 1, but add an asterisk. Right direction will have a huge number of people that vehemently disagree, but please apply common sense. A right direction is one that leads to the greatest good for the greatest number of people. NOT the greatest good for a select number.

      2. Are you seriously implying that government has a long term outlook while businesses do not? It's not even 2 years now that the politicians start their quest of the next election cycle. Of-course inheritance taxes pretty much destroyed the long term prospects for private companies while government created inflation prevents people from thinking in the long term completely in a more general way.

      No, what I'm implying is that whether or not government is short or long sighted doesn't matter, and don't try to imply anything from what I said - read it at face value (too many problems in communication occur when people try to understand what the speaker really meant). What I said was that government is SO LARGE that even if they tried to move in the short term, it moves REALLY slowly, and will be nearly impossible. It's not about short or long term. It's about size and agility.

      Also. . . . I've had conversations with you before. We are polar opposites in economic and political belief. Look at your comment history. Look at mine. I understand that nothing I say will sway you, but I honestly believe that your viewpoints are wrong.

  8. The Hypocrisy In Silicon Valley's Big Talk .. *OR* by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When capitalism runs a muck

  9. Whose fault is it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Blame the VCs -- real technology innovation is costly and slow

    Blame the entrenched enterprises and government -- the first group want to stifle innovation and the second empowers them to do so via the patent system

    Blame the entrepreneurs -- for not taking the risk of innovating in spite of the above

    Blame ourselves -- for criticising those remaining few who try and fail

  10. No shit, you don't say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've been saying this for years now. I realize that there's the inevitable law of diminishing returns when it comes to relative technology improvements we meager humans notice in daily life, but in my opinion (whatever that's worth), we're no where near seeing meager real-life returns and there's a lot of innovation most could use in their daily lives that can still be done.

    Many companies have found a nice saturation/optimization point where consumers are happy repurchasing products with minimal investment on real innovation/improvement... maximizing ROI. That's sort of the goal of a for profit business, is it not? What I find astounding is that competition hasn't come in to sweep the carpet under these stagnant groups, but I'm guessing it's hard to gain entry into these markets to compete and you'll probably die trying, so the risk of competition is minimal to none. Plus there's brand loyalty and relatively unconcerned consumer market swaying stagnation with their buying power.

    Maybe I'm very wrong, I really truly hope so. Everyone wants to make a buck, progress be damned. The entire state of affairs is pitiful if you ask me.

  11. What? by Tridus · · Score: 1

    Sending a URL using a modem only with smartphones isn't innovative enough for you?

    Man, people are so demanding.

    --
    -- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
  12. Forget about flying cars ... by pitchpipe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There's a lot of 'me-too' startups with some of the best and brightest figuring out ways to sell me stuff rather the working on flying cars.

    The flying car was your grandfather's future, and it now sounds weird to use it as a symbol for the future.

    The flying car is a symbol for a future that never was.

    --
    Look where all this talking got us, baby.
    1. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pfft, that future is now!!1!

    2. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The flying car is a symbol for a future that never was.

      Give me the self-driving car. So I can reclaim the 1000 hours/year I waste physically guiding my car. I bought a luxury car so I would hate it less, but using it to "experience the drive" is like using an abacus to "experience the math". Fuck that. I have better things to waste my life on.

      Now give me another self-driving car without any seats. No airbags, no overengineered crumple zones, no creature comforts. Just a cheap autonomous box on wheels for one-tenth the price. That's the 'car' that will pick up my drycleaning, my groceries. That's the car that will save local businesses, letting them compete with Amazon on convenience and beat them on speed.

      That's my future.

    3. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by SecurityGuy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This needs to be +5, Awesome. It's exactly right.

      Flying cars are DOA until we have self driving cars. On the way home last week, I saw a 5 car pile up. Nose to tail, every one. How did that happen? Either some moron managed to plow into the last car in a row hard enough to drive them all together (been there, done that as one of the hit cars, not the moron) or a chain of morons was all following so closely they couldn't stop as the first moron plowed into stopped cars.

      These are the people the "flying car" crowd want flying. I don't even want these people driving, let alone driving over my head at 150 mph or more. These people can have flying cars when we have self-driving flying cars, and never before or the carnage will be obscene.

    4. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by SlippyToad · · Score: 1

      or a chain of morons was all following so closely

      This is usually the cause of a pileup. Most people follow too closely. And then get mad at you when you have to stop.

      Even funnier is when they tailgate me for 8 miles on the freeway, angrily whip past me as if how dare you get in my way, and then Indiana's finest pull them over because it's called the fucking "no-fly-zone" and I'm following the speed limit because I do not have $150 to give away today.

      I always am reminded of this when people start bitching about speed limits. You guys can have your no-speed-limits freeways when you fucking learn not to tailgate.

      --
      One day I feel I'm ahead of the wheel / the next it's rolling over me / I can get back on / I can get back on
    5. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont want to be driving anymore. Driving is a chore for me. Just a way to get from here to there. I like the gp bought a nicer car but that only helps so much. I moved closer to work. That helped a lot... Flying would be nice as I wouldnt have to go 5 mins out of the way to make a left hand turn just to put me on a small road into a round-about so I can finally get to work. I can literally see my workplace from my house but it takes me 10 mins to get there due to road layout.

      Also when they get flying cars is the day I get a delorian and convert it :)

    6. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by DreadPiratePizz · · Score: 1

      Pretty much anybody can fly an airplane under general aviation, yet you see relatively few nasty accidents. This is because, surprise, it's much more difficult to get a pilot's license than a driver's license because the standards are high. I imagine flying cars would be no different.

    7. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by mbkennel · · Score: 1

      "Now give me another self-driving car without any seats. No airbags, no overengineered crumple zones, no creature comforts. Just a cheap autonomous box on wheels for one-tenth the price. That's the 'car' that will pick up my drycleaning, my groceries.:"

      That's the car which will be stolen in 10 days and reprogrammed to deliver narcotics, and you will find yourself on the end of a SWAT team and if they don't shoot you (your dogs are toast), you will find your home forfeited, and still owe the mortgage. You can't pay because you're paying your lawyers to keep you out of federal pen.

    8. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I really want to see that Bosch car radar system put on all new cars with a mandatory speed/distance check to the car in front. If you are following too close the computer recognizes it and applies the brake lightly to put the car into a safe following distance.

      --
      Good-bye
    9. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by jafac · · Score: 1

      Fuck that.

      Give me a boss that treats me as an adult, so I can work at home 3-4 days a week. No more commute in any kind of car.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    10. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by mlts · · Score: 1

      Bingo. Self-driving cars would be very useful in the US for a number of reasons:

      1: The passive servicing aspect. Aft night, the vehicle can haul itself to a garage for overnight servicing, and I'm sure 24 hour service stations/car dealers would sprout up for this demand. Having a car get serviced while asleep would save hours of time.

      2: The ability to set up shops which are essentially reverse delivery drivers. Car drives to window, order is placed in vehicle, car drives away. This makes it possible to order a pizza from an exotic spot that would be out of the town's delivery radius. Or, pick up a part from another town.

      3: Extra hours of sleep. With commutes in the hours, might as well let the car do the dirty work.

      4: No need for cloverleaf intersections. Communication between stationary computers and vehicles would allow cars to drive full speed through 4-way intersections with timing no human could ever accomplish.

      5: Actual respect for driving laws. A cyclist or pedestrian presses a button to cross a road, the cars -will- stop and allow them by.

      6: Cars can park in a garage or parking lot by themselves.

      7: Far fewer accidents (thus more people living.)

      8: Better fuel economy in general. Fewer panic stops.

    11. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by mlts · · Score: 1

      Security can be done right. It is a matter of "won't", rather than "can't" in general. A lot of companies have the "security has no ROI" attitude, but if it is something that their names are on the line for, they might actually follow working practices.

      Take the Mercedes DAS (drive authorization system) keys/remotes. Very few, if any, people are bypassing the anti-theft system on these vehicles. So far, there are key cloners out there at best. If there is actual money and lives on the line, even this would be much improved so "hackcidents" are something that is of fiction rather than fact.

      My assumption is that self-driving cars will have actual decent security, good enough to keep a tweaker from commandeering someone's vehicle to pick up some lab "product".

    12. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Give me the self-driving car

      Monorail!

      There's an interesting cable car pod concept as well which was on the ABC science show last year or late the year before but I'm not sure what search terms would find it (http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/).

    13. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Stiletto · · Score: 1

      Some of the above are only possible if ALL cars were self-driving. Even 20 years after the first self-driving car becomes viable, that won't happen. Hell, we still have cars from the 1930s and 1940s (and probably earlier) on the road.

    14. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you can see your workplace, you should really consider walking or riding a bik.

    15. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Common+Joe · · Score: 1

      a chain of morons was all following so closely

      You're describing 95% of the drivers out there who don't know about and / or don't follow the two second rule.

    16. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's fucking called rail.

    17. Re:Forget about flying cars ... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      I invented a flying abacus for you.

  13. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    what's the point of marketing something to people who will never have an interest in buying your product?

    One might think this was self-evident, but you'll never get a marketer to believe that not marketing anything to someone is a good idea.

  14. Yeah, yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you want to really innovate on a fundamental scale you probably wouldn't be writing software that runs on today's (or next year's) servers, desktops, web browsers, tablets, or phones. I mean, that's obvious. But then you'd probably be scruffing about for money, unless you were independently wealthy like Bill Gates, or were tied in with someone who was.

  15. Patents and Regulation by MetalliQaZ · · Score: 1

    What do you expect, with the business environment that we are working. They would work on the flying cars if they thought they could sell any of them.

    --
    "Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
  16. Innovation != Invention by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

    Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a better and, as a result, novel idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.

    Innovation != Invention. Innovation is, by definition, easy. Innovation is the blue collar work of the intellectual realm.

    --
    -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    1. Re: Innovation != Invention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quit saying "by definition". Show me a definition that says it easy.

      Link please.

    2. Re: Innovation != Invention by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      I just did. Want to see it again?

      Innovation differs from invention in that innovation refers to the use of a better and, as a result, novel idea or method, whereas invention refers more directly to the creation of the idea or method itself.

      Invention means you look at the world around you and try to deduce how the hell you can make this work.

      Innovation means you take someone elses already documented invention and reuse it, stepwise refinement style.

      It's the difference between the guy who invented the arched doorway and the guy who said "Hey, you could use this to make a window!"

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    3. Re: Innovation != Invention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still doesn't show that it's "easy". Grandparent AC is correct to call bullshit on you.

    4. Re: Innovation != Invention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Here is the definition, courtesy of Merriam-Webster.

      innovation
      1: the introduction of something new
      2: a new idea, method, or device

      I don't see the word easy, therefor it is not "by definition".

    5. Re: Innovation != Invention by ShieldW0lf · · Score: 1

      Still doesn't show that it's "easy". Grandparent AC is correct to call bullshit on you.

      You're right... even following directions can be difficult if you're an idiot. Why don't we just go with "much, much, much easier".

      --
      -1 Uncomfortable Truth
    6. Re: Innovation != Invention by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's not, because you haven't made any argument that it is easier (repeating your assertion doesn't count).

      Nor have you justified your sudden attempt to include "following directions" in the definition. And you won't, because by definition (note the correct use of that phrase), innovation involves something not previously done, and therefore no directions to follow.

  17. History shows big gambles often fail by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Newton, Xerox Star, Next, Intel's iAXP432, Xanadu Project, the Windows 2001 Tablet, Japan's HD analog TV R&D project, that company that tried to make an online MS-Office competitor with Java applets, and many other "bold" ideas that were ahead of their time failed.

    The market and technology has to be "just almost ready" for stuff to take off. If you are too early, then your configuration and vision are probably all wrong. It takes trial and error with consumers and users to tune products right. The first shot at something bold is usually just too quirky or too expensive.

    Palm Pilot did Newton better than Newton, and smart devices improved up the ladder through Blackberry until they were ready for mainstream with iPhone having the right mixture of features and ease of use. (Sorry fans, but Newton sucked from a practicality angle.)

    And the few times big gambles get wings, competitors usually make a better run at the idea and the payoff is not big enough to justify the up-front risk. VisiCalc, the first spreadsheet is just such an example. After about 3 years of strong sales, Lotus came along and did it better, faster, and cheaper (gambling on IBM PC instead of CPM), and VisiCalc went belly-up. (Software patents didn't really exist back then, which will be another problem with very new ideas.)

    In investing, you usually don't want to take a big risk unless there is a big potential payoff. But history shows for big-leap projects, the risks are big but usually not the payoffs. Incremental innovation looks like a better mix of risk and reward to rational investors who study history.

    1. Re:History shows big gambles often fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first 123 was neither better nor faster than VisiCalc. It was just marketed better.

    2. Re:History shows big gambles often fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that doesn't even get into basic science which made all this technology possible but that returned 0$ to the inventors. Modern CPU physics includes quantum effects so their engineers need to understand that, yet there is no fee for using quantum mechanics. Good thing we've got public money going into that stuff.

    3. Re:History shows big gambles often fail by moeinvt · · Score: 1

      It's tough to imagine Lotus marketing a product "better" than someone else. The first "Excel" was certainly no better than Lotus 1-2-3, but MS managed to market Lotus into obscurity.

    4. Re:History shows big gambles often fail by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Either way, VisiCalc stumbled and was short-lived despite being the inventor of the idea.

      One of the reasons I've read that Lotus beat VisiCalc is that it was difficult to get CPM machines to use more than about 40K to 50K of RAM. Once hooked on spreadsheets, companies wanted them bigger.

      Lotus focused much of their efforts on the then new IBM PC market, and IBM PC's would let Lotus-123 use up to almost 640K of RAM. VisiCalc focused more or less evenly on CPM, Apple, and PC. VisiCalc went wide, Lotus went deep.

      By the time VisiCalc realized that the PC architecture was the future of business computing, it was too late.

      Then Microsoft kind of did the same thing to Lotus: moved the industry to Window 3.x, and Lotus was too late to Windows, leaving only Excel.

      Live by the platform, die by the platform.

    5. Re:History shows big gambles often fail by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      yet there is no fee for using quantum mechanics.

      God is indeed charging for it. He's just generous enough to let you wait until the afterlife to pay up.

    6. Re:History shows big gambles often fail by bkmoore · · Score: 1

      Back then, MS sold Office bundled with Excel, Word, etc. for a little more than the price of Lotus 1-2-3 or Word Perfect alone. Lotus 1-2-3 may have been the more powerful tool, but it was still a DOS app.

  18. Oh, will you give up on the flying cars already? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, it would be wonderful? No, it wouldn't, because you'd have idiots crashing the things everywhere. Half the problem is getting the things off the ground in an efficient, near-vertical-takeoff configuration without making them so short-range and having such high energy requirements that they aren't practical. The other half of the problem is making them *remotely* safe for the average person (rather than a fully-qualified pilot). Both of these are *huge* technical challenges, and I'd argue the second one is a lot more challenging, because it means making the vehicles practically autonomous. It's hard enough with cars on a 2D surface ground car. Going 3D in airspace is a lot harder. The software isn't ready. And I don't mean "toss a GPS in it and some route planning and we're done" kind of approach, but the kind of thing where even if someone went nuts and decided they wanted to ram one of them into their ex-wife's house, you couldn't actually do it -- i.e. not only "fool-proof", but "malicious-proof". It just ain't going to happen.

    This isn't meant as an anti-innovation rant. Innovate away. And the article is right that figuring out new ways to trick us into parting with our money via marketing isn't real "innovation". On the other hand, there are plenty of more practical problems that deserve some innovation and could make the world a better place besides flying cars.

  19. What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Valley by PythonM · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Millions of people lost their real (not paper) money "investing" in Silicon Valley companies. For example AOL’s market value went from $226 billion to about $20 billion now.

    The money did not evaporate like water, so who got the $$$ that millions of american lost by "investing" in Silicon Valley companies?

  20. Ah, Peter Thiel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad he's putting his money where is mouth is. But ironically, he made his billion on a low-hanging fruit like PayPal; and it was sold off after about 4 years.

    Let the millionaires and billionaires take the risk; for a schmoe like me, "risk" means having unprotected sex and having a second child which we cannot afford.

    1. Re:Ah, Peter Thiel by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's easy to say PayPal is low risk now. I bet it didn't seem low risk before it took off when loads of start ups were no doubt trying to do essentially the same thing and everyone assumed Visa et al would enter the market and wipe them all out.

      It's like Microsoft with DOS. Sure in retrospect it seemed certain. Back in he day I be Gates was shitting himself that Gary Kildall might wake up and accept the $250K he was offered or IBM would decide to give the OS job to the legions of programmers they had on he payroll and probably not even doing anything that anyone would miss. Or that Tim Patterson might meet an IBMer in a bar and sell them QDOS for $5000.

      In each case there were a lot of people trying to do the same thing. Some of them were in a lot better position to win than the person that did. It just that everyone but the winner screwed up in some way. Some way that wasn't even clear until later. Kildall might have done the deal with IBM if he knew the other options they had. Patterson would have ended up running the equivalent of Microsoft if he'd have known a few more people at IBM.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  21. BELIEVE IT OR NOT! by HaeMaker · · Score: 1

    http://www.redfin.com/CA/Newark/4931-Bosworth-Ct-94560/home/1763349

    1. Re:BELIEVE IT OR NOT! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'd be so psyched about living right on top of the Hayward fault, getting stuck on the bridge every day (or Hwy 237 backup), and being next to all the crime in the East Bay.

      I must say they staged it nicely though.

      If you're single, rent as close to work as possible. Take you down payment and sock it into some REITs. Do you know how much the dividends from $500k of reasonably risky equity REITs are? You can insure them with put options/collars if you want to get sophisticated, but over the long haul you can just average into these things and it's generally low risk. Utilities are like that too; but do you own DD and check on it once in a while. Also, you can move much more easily. I live in Redwood City. It's not the greatest place, but it's close to everything and my rent for a nice 1-bed is $1300/mo. $500k of REIT is more than I need to generate dividends and pay the rent.

      Best of all, if the big one hits (and I don't get killed), I just walk away from the house that's red-tagged, live at the Red Cross shelter for a while, and find a new apartment. It's the landlord's problem.

      $500k of debt on teh fault? No thanks.

  22. Trivial Drival by Luthair · · Score: 1

    It seems to me that most of the 'startups' covered are based around trivially simple ideas (camera filters, decisions, etc) and a polished mobile application.

    This seems to be the formula for media coverage (since the tech press largely lacks a technical background and can't comprehend or write about anything more complicated) and it this is apparently the formula to get bought by one of the tech companies.

  23. Innovation vs Invention by ron_ivi · · Score: 4, Interesting
    Related to the big business around owning IP is the distinction between Invention (pushing the bleeding edge in technology) and Innovation (squeezing out competitors using sly business tricks). http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2003/pulpit_20030904_000784.html

    But there is another issue here, one that is hardly ever mentioned and that's the coining of the term "innovation." This word, which was hardly used at all until two or three years ago, feels to me like a propaganda campaign and a successful one at that, dominating discussion in the computer industry. I think Microsoft did this intentionally, for they are the ones who seem to continually use the word. But what does it mean? And how is it different from what we might have said before? I think the word they are replacing is "invention." Bill Shockley invented the transistor, Gordon Moore and Bob Noyce invented the integrated circuit, Ted Hof invented the microprocessor. Of course others claimed to have done those same three things, but the goal was always invention. Only now we innovate, which is deliberately vague but seems to stop somewhere short of invention. Innovators have wiggle room. They can steal ideas, for example, and pawn them off as their own. That's the intersection of innovation and sharp business.

    1. Re:Innovation vs Invention by CodeBuster · · Score: 1

      Microsoft was indeed an early promoter of the word. Does anyone else remember their, "Freedom to Innovate" campaign during the DOJ lawsuits right before the Dot Com bust?

  24. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by erroneus · · Score: 4, Informative

    I don't think you're getting it. Sales and marketing are, of course, important aspect. But the thing they are saying is instead of selling new things, they are selling old things (sometimes with incremental improvements) in new ways.

    But this problem is much larger really. Everything from music to movies and TV shows are doing this sort of thing. How many super hero movies? The new territory seems to be fairy tales. Why aren't they writing really original stuff?

  25. IT'S THE IT, STUPID by sanman2 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The problem is that everyone now thinks that all technology is IT-related. IT has become the ultimate Groupthink. Everyone just wants to do the same old dotcom crap. And dotcoms have now become to IT what plastic dogshit became to manufacturing. IT has sucked away bright minds from every other field. Nobody wants to do anything difficult and risky anymore, because they're more comfortable settling into the same old IT slog.

    1. Re:IT'S THE IT, STUPID by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, forget the information age, stuff mass communication and a computer in every garage, that's just kids stuff, REAL innovation is in COAL MINING...

      I often wonder how many basement doors must be locked to produce such narrowly focused thinking followed by the masturbatory urge to poorly express half-thoughts in public discourse.

    2. Re:IT'S THE IT, STUPID by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no it's as Sting should have said The russians love their children. but the Americans love money more. Ah but you argue what happens if your one of the many Americans who dont have money?

      It's the one day my ship will come in and I will have shares in all those companies making money.

  26. Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My obsolete smartphone fits in my pocket and has the computing power of Cray X-MP. We have the technology to read your entire genome in hours. We can index billions of web pages and retrieve them by keyword, ordered by relevance, in a millisecond. We can create realistic digital special effects, in real time, on personal computers. We have several private companies with satellite launch capabilities. Whoever thinks technological innovation isn't still happening is just not looking.

  27. innovation lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only innovation a jewish money changer knows is how to help himself to other peoples money with a good enough story

    people are getting out of finance, and getting their hands dirty again, turns out fucking over your communities for a bullshit story only works short term.

  28. Silicon Valley is so yesterday. by QuietLagoon · · Score: 1

    As TFA says, the MBA types have killed the innovation that laid the golden egg.

    1. Re:Silicon Valley is so yesterday. by moeinvt · · Score: 2

      Well said. Seems like the natural evolution of a company is to keep moving marketers and bean counters into positions of authority, gradually killing whatever innovative capacity the company had.

    2. Re:Silicon Valley is so yesterday. by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      As TFA says, the MBA types have killed the innovation that laid the golden egg.

      This is such a silly statement. I'm sure it sounds cool and awesome and avant-garde to the slashdotter's ears, but what exactly does it mean? How do you measure that? Who are the MBA types? What is a MBA type? What do you mean by killing innovation? Lots of cliched emotions on this statement, but little analyzable substance.

  29. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Most of that money never existed in the first place.

    Here's a simple example. Ten friends start a company. They each put $100 in, and they each get one share. Total valuation is $1,000.
    One of the partners finds a buyer willing to pay him $150 for his share. The company is now worth $1,500. But only $1,050 worth of _real_ money has ever changed hands.

    Stock markets value companies at price last paid for a share x number of shares. But until all shares are bought at that price, most of that money doesn't exist.

  30. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by moeinvt · · Score: 2

    "...who got the $$$ that millions of american lost by "investing" in Silicon Valley companies?"

    The big banks who did the under-writing of the IPOs for these over-hyped companies and the early shareholders (sometimes the same banks doing the IPO) who sold out before the reality of the company's prospects became apparent.

  31. They would sell you a flying car if they could by Joshua+Fan · · Score: 1

    Capitalism is supposed to be beneficial for mankind in that advancing technology is supposed to be profitable, which is the reason for the recent incentives to privatize the space industry. Of course the link between innovation and profits isn't direct, so oftentimes innovation will steer off course towards designing a more visible animated billboard for the underside of that flying car rather than increasing redundancy in its lift components.

  32. No, IP is minor. Manufacturing loss is major. by mbkennel · · Score: 1

    The biggest difference is that the truly big inventions aren't just software. They use software but are associated with sharp hardware developments.

    The truly big things require exploiting new physics and chemistry. 6 person startups of the Proper Profile of Startups (24 to 31 year old Stanford CS graduates) don't do this well. New physics requires large labs, many years of work, and listening to old men with European accents. Return on capital is much lower for the owners of physical atom-based companies compared to bit-based companies, but the return to societal prosperity is substantially higher. Hence rational capitalism dispenses with investing in such atom-based companies.

    Also the golden era of Silicon Valley was paid for by investment for military hardware, and not venture capitalists.

  33. Paypal by Applekid · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Max Levchin, co-founder of Paypal, is right. Silicon Valley should instead focus on providing services that treat their customers like dirt and everyone hates, like Paypal.

    --
    More Twoson than Cupertino
  34. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by alen · · Score: 3, Interesting

    going from say $10 billion market cap to $226 billion does not mean someone invested that money into the company. it just means people bid up the price of the shares based on beliefs of the company's future earnings and ability to pay dividends. chances are only a small percentage of shares held actually changed hands.

    same thing with the fall in valuation. people dump their shares at lower and lower prices and the market cap goes down. not like people lose real money

  35. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet what happened to the 1050 when the whole company 'went away'? Money does not just 'go away'. The imaginary bit is the 450.

    And I just realized slashdot ids are up in the 2 million range?!...

  36. Defensive publication by tepples · · Score: 1

    Make it easy and cheap to file defensive patents. So you own the idea, and nobody can stop you from exploiting it, but you cannot stop anyone else from exploiting it as well.

    Write up your description and claims as if you were going to apply for a patent, but do not file it with the Patent Office. Instead, publish it as a white paper and notify the major tech news sites in your field. Congratulations: you've just made a defensive publication. If you publish details of how to build your idea, then you've established your inventorship. After the date of publication, if anyone else applies for a patent on ideas that you've published, the application is invalid because it is not novel. And contrary to some people's claims, the recent transition in U.S. patent law to a "first to file" rule does not change novelty.

    1. Re:Defensive publication by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      ... the application is invalid because it is not novel.

      ... and the burden of proof is on YOU to show that it is invalid. Getting an existing patent invalidated is a time consuming and expensive process, even when you have obvious and copious evidence to support your case. In the meantime, your investors pull out, and your business folds ....

  37. Church, Turing, Newton, Leibniz by tepples · · Score: 2

    Who invented Mathematics, Trigonometry, Boolean Algebra, Computer Science, Calculus, Language, again?

    Boolean algebra is named after George Boole. Alonzo Church and Alan Turing independently formalized computer science by introducing machines capable of verifying assertions in first-order logic and showing why it is necessarily imperfect. Calculus was also independently invented by two people: Newton and Leibniz.

    Oh wait, they are LONG DEAD

    We benefit because unlike trademarks, and unlike copyrights since 2003, patents expire.

    1. Re:Church, Turing, Newton, Leibniz by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to neglect the fact that ideas are being patented today, not inventions. It has nothing to do with copyrights or trademarks, it has to do with a method of extorting money from competition which was illegal until the business process patent laws broke the founding laws surrounding patents and "ownership of inventions" and created an economy based on owning ideas.

      It is easy to spot ignorant tools can pretend to be smart by using Wiki and Google.

    2. Re:Church, Turing, Newton, Leibniz by metaforest · · Score: 1

      Boole, Church, Turing and others in the Pre-war era stood on the shoulders of Wilkins, Huygens, Hooke, Leibniz, Babbage, Lady Ada Lovelace, and others. All of whom helped define Discrete Mathematics, which is the underpinnings of CS, and CIS.

  38. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by ottothecow · · Score: 4, Interesting
    That money went to the last person to sell the share to the person who lost all of their money.

    Maybe that person said "this is crazy, I gotta get out", or maybe they rode the tide all the way up to $226 billion and said "I want to buy a house with my proceeds, gotta sell". or they noticed that rapid gains in the tech sector had left their asset allocation unbalanced so they said "Gotta rebalance--sell half the tech and buy some other sectors and a few bonds"

    The value of the company evaporated, but the money was already gone. The people who kept their money aren't that different from the people who were left holding the stock when it fell...it's just what happens when you toy with a bubble.

    --
    Bottles.
  39. When you punish anything, you get less of it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you punish people for taking risks or innovating (in the form of legal restrictions, IP suit craziness, taxes, legal potential for your industry to be suddenly nationalized, etc), you get less of it. People everywhere, including Silicon Valley, are engaging in low risk or no-risk operations because they are trying to reduce their overall risk. Business is risky enough without having the extra governmental and legal risks added on top.

  40. Bwahaha... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You clowns are just figuring this out now? This is been going on for some time. It's mostly toys being sold to fools. Real innovation stalled, in it's place are a billion web monkeys laboring to produce applications that don't explode in your face since they are built on some of the most bass-ackwards technology every produced.

  41. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by witherstaff · · Score: 1

    I'll agree with you on the dotcom bubble. AOL may be a bad example. AOL managed to rack up enough money to buy Time Warner before being spun back off as a stand alone company again years later so stock value doesn't tell the whole story. Smart move to take the hyped stock value to buy real assets. Sure even Time Warner said it was a bad idea but they're still around. It wasn't a crash and burn the likes of webvan or PETS.com or all the other huge chunks of money thrown away.

  42. The part where you equate ALL pensions... by denzacar · · Score: 1

    ...with some HIGHLY specific case... which you've apparently forgotten to address in your post.

    Instead, you chose to reply to "A pension, whether in the public or private sectors, is an agreement between employer and employees.", which is a perfectly valid but incomplete definition of a pension (it's a three party agreement) - with a rant about some case in the government sector, known only to you.
    We have no idea what case you are talking about.
    All we see here is you implying that ALL pensions are basically corruption and thievery.

    As such, your post is not "the nadir of right-wing stupidity".
    It's flamebait.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  43. Sarbanes-Oxly & Silicon Valley by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The passage of Sarbanes-Oxly cut stock options grants to rank and file engineers (who create great things) and are now limited to executives (who market great creations). As a result 24/7 startups are dieing, in my humble opinion. Why work 24/7 when VPs are the only ones being rewarded? Go home at 6pm, sleep in on weekends, and play with your dog for a change.

    Wage stagnation, health care cuts, & dry bonus pools implemented by highly profitable companies during the recession in the Valley only underscore this reality. You get what you pay for.

  44. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Whoever was second to last to own the company gets to keep the money.
    During the dot-com boom, the companies themselves were the product. Whatever they happened to do (or attempt to do) wasn't very important. The goal was to get to the IPO as fast as possible and unload the company onto the unsuspecting public. Financiers (at least the ones who didn't start believing their own BS) didn't really believe that you could make a fortune selling dog food over the internet. They believed that you could make a fortune selling a company that sells dog food over the internet.

  45. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Why aren't they writing really original stuff?"

    It's easier said than done. To understand why, see: The Tropeless Tale

  46. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by DerekLyons · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The money did not evaporate like water

    When you're talking about the stock market, yeah, it does simply 'evaporate like water'. Market value is a collective hallucination, not a checking account.

  47. Wage stagnation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    , health care cuts, & dry bonus pools. Sounds like you work for Apple.

  48. cryptocurrency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    does bitcoin count as a novel invention? and look how slashdotters reacted with disgust.

    1. Re:cryptocurrency by Wonko+the+Sane · · Score: 1

      Lots of people are being caught offguard by Bitcoin.

      The negativity seems to stem from an inner conflict struggling with issues surrounding the foreign concept of monetary freedom.

      It is like you open the cage door on a chimp that has been locked up for decades, basically they go nuts ... they look at the door and their eyes tell them it is open but their brain cannot comprehend it because it has never seen the cage door open. Soon the will poke their noses out of the cage (buy a saotshi or two), run around a little and them run back inside the cage (USD) ... observing it makes for great lolz, the big, bold freedom campaigners confronting a possible freedom they never really believed in, just like to talk about.

    2. Re:cryptocurrency by dbIII · · Score: 1

      You've certainly disgusted me with your patronising little story comparing the marks for your scam to a caged animal let free.

  49. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    In science, incremental "results" get rehashed more often than truly new findings for two big reasons.

    1. You can't go too long without actually "producing" anything even for tenured professors. If you go 5 years without putting out a paper because you're only focused on a real finding, you tend to not get grants, people working in your lab, or lab space.

    2. It's a lot harder to discover something totally new than it is to make incremental small discoveries. You know what you're looking for, you know how other people have found it etc.

    Similar principles probably work for the movie industry as well. It's got to keep churning out movies on a regular schedule to stay open. It's probably far easier to make a movie that's similar to another movie since you know what worked and what didn't from that movie. And unless you're emulating a movie that bombed, the rehashed movie probably isn't going to bomb either.

    With both, the big names probably get a lot more room to take big chances than those just starting out. It's probably a fine balance in both to build up to that point. You have to take risks, but unless you're really lucky, you're going to have some bad luck. Some big theories and papers aren't going to pan out, or some movies that tried something really fresh are going to totally suck.

  50. Flying cars are stupid by gweihir · · Score: 1

    For many, many reasons. Well known to anybody that cared to find out. In fact, people calling for work on flying cars are pretty stupid themselves.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  51. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everything from music to movies and TV shows are doing this sort of thing. How many super hero movies? The new territory seems to be fairy tales

    It's always been this way. Look in any decade since the 1930s, and the vast majority of movies are 'me-too' movies. For that matter, it's not a huge exaggeration to say that most pop music in the last 40 years is 'me-too' copying the Beatles. And the Beatles were just 'me-too' Tin Pan Alley players.

    The problem is, something original is extremely rare. If you get a truly new good thing once in a decade, you're doing good.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  52. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by Solandri · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For example AOLâ(TM)s market value went from $226 billion to about $20 billion now.

    The money did not evaporate like water, so who got the $$$ that millions of american lost by "investing" in Silicon Valley companies?

    The money was given to previous stockowners who sold their shares. If AOL IPOs at $10, gets sold to person A for $20, sold to person B for $40, sold to person C for $75, and sold to person D for $100, then the stock crashes to $10, the $90 person D lost was distributed as:

    $25 to person C
    $35 to person B
    $20 to person A
    $10 to person AOL

    Note that the company is not the beneficiary of its own high stock price (unless it held onto and decides to sell additional stock at a later date). The capital AOL received for its IPO was (number of IPO shares sold) * (stock price at IPO). $10 in the above example even though its stock peaked at $100. Also, don't make the mistake of thinking from the above example that the economy is zero-sum. It's not. But increases in the valuation of stock have to be linked to real increases in productivity for everyone to get "richer". If AOL had introduced real long-term productivity gains to the economy, their stock wouldn't have have crashed, and person D would still be holding onto $100 of real value instead of $10.

    Furthermore, money is a representation of value/productivity. In fiat monetary systems like ours, it's created out of thin air to try to keep its value proportional to the size of the economy. If you do this right, the price of goods stays relatively constant (though you want a small amount of inflation to encourage people to use money to try to improve their productivity, instead of hiding it under a mattress waiting for its value to go up). If you do it wrong and make too much money, or a bunch of money is made and its value evaporates due to an economic bubble popping, the economy normalizes for this by increasing the price of goods (the money becomes worth less because there's more of it per unit of productivity than there used to be, though weak economic growth replacing some of the lost valuation can also help the normalization). This process of normalization is what causes a recession (slowdown in velocity of money).

    This is the same reason why simply increasing the minimum wage to make it a living wage doesn't work. The value of the work done by minimum wage workers - the productivity their jobs add to the economy - has to be sufficient to live off of before it can be paid a living wage. If its not, then raising the minimum wage doesn't magically make it possible to make a living doing those jobs. It simply eliminates those jobs from the market since the employer would be paying the worker more than the value they get for the job being done.

  53. My Xerox Experience by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was employed by the once-mighty Xerox for a few years and was really saddened by what passed for "innovation" there and the quarterly patent quotas imposed upon Engineering.

    There was this constant demand from management for engineers to produce a steady stream of candidates ideas for patenting, mostly to make up a quota to remain relevant in the "marketplace" of cross-licensing deals with other major companies (IBM, HP, Microsoft...).

    It was absolutely pathetic, from an engineer's perspective, of what management thought was worthy of putting forward for patenting. Although, to be fair, this was just a wider symptom of the industry, not just Xerox.

    Trivial things like microswitches to sense the level of paper in a tray in a copier, new button graphics on the GUI panel (signifying a "new" operation) and, particularly galling for software engineers, an array of statically-initialized C structures!

    This all ended up with engineering being largely outsourced to HCL, of India. Luckily I escaped. I gather things aren't going to well there. Projects are very late and Wim has fallen on his sword.

    Innovation in the West, and especially in the US, has become a race to produce quotas of trivial patents and other "intellectual property" so that your company can participate with power in the IP protection racket.

  54. Patents expire 20 years after filing by tepples · · Score: 1

    Oh wait, they are LONG DEAD

    unlike trademarks, and unlike copyrights since 2003, patents expire.

    You seem to neglect the fact that ideas are being patented today, not inventions. It has nothing to do with copyrights or trademarks

    My point is that even if ideas are being patented, by the time the "inventors" are LONG DEAD, the patents will have expired.

    1. Re:Patents expire 20 years after filing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which does not negate the actual argument: Patent's on Ideas should once again be ILLEGAL since they should have never been made legal. The concept of patenting ideas was discussed at the time we created a patent system in the US. There is nothing new here, it's all in history books if you care to go read. Patenting ideas was intentionally restricted in the original patent system as a measure of preventing the crony capitalism and monopolization we see today.

      If I come across as too blunt, I can not apologize. Information is literally at your fingertips today. I can only excuse ignorance in adults when they don't argue based on that ignorance.

  55. Has the novelty requirement become a dead letter? by tepples · · Score: 1

    So the problem, as I understand your explanation, is that the novelty requirement is a dead letter because the USPTO routinely grants patents that fail novelty and patent holders abuse the presumption of validity to dilate proceedings. How is it different from any other area of law where the party with the biggest litigation budget wins?

  56. This is why by ILongForDarkness · · Score: 1

    I tune out when I hear a companies business model is "ad-based". Reason: there is only so much revenue available from companies that make "real" products. Of that they will only part with a certain amount of it for marketing before the marginal return goes negative. Thus every stinking crapware company is fighting for the same dollar. Ultimately someone has to make something that will make a customer willing to part with their money to make the size of the tech industry to grow otherwise you might be making high tech but you are fighting for Walmart dollars.

  57. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

    Market value is a collective hallucination...

    Wow, just like water. When those dihydroen oxide molecules get moving fast enough it just disappears. Water isn't real.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  58. Re:Has the novelty requirement become a dead lette by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    How is it different from any other area of law where the party with the biggest litigation budget wins?

    The party with the biggest budget doesn't always win. You are just being cynical. A big budget is only beneficial when you can win by dragging out the process. So allowing defensive patents (and maybe patent pools) is a win because it switches the burden of proof from the polyopolists to the monopolist. If the wannabe monopolist uses their big budget to drag out the process, they lose, because everyone can use the innovation in the meantime.

  59. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

    Well really, if we look at history. The big discoveries were made by incremental efforts. Sometimes the next step looks really big and important. But you don't get there without the rest of the staircase.

    --
    The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
  60. patent reform is needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wanna spawn innovation? Kill the present system that allows do-nothing patent trolls to tie up innovation in court before it ever sees the light of day. In the present system somebody comes up with a good idea, patents it, and then sits on their ass waiting for somebody with the cajones to take the product to market. Then they fly in saying, "pay up sucker." And more and more the warchests of patents belongs to the larger conglomerates who buy them up as if they are baseball trading cards.

    That's the problem.

    And as long as those companies have deeper pockets and richer lobbyists at their disposal it will never change. They all want it to change...but deep down in side they don't. Or it would have been fixed long ago.

  61. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    Why aren't they writing really original stuff?

    really original stuff is getting written, it's just not made into movies. the reason is that the backers of such movies have discovered something. simply having a story line that people are familiar with on any level is more important to a movie's success than an original, well written story.

  62. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by farble1670 · · Score: 1

    Look in any decade since the 1930s, and the vast majority of movies are 'me-too' movies.

    exactly. the difference is (for me) i'm old. i've had lots of time to see things come around again. when you are a kid, it all seems new, even if it's a rehash. then when you are old, you look back to being a kid and how much better it was because everything was new.

  63. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by dbIII · · Score: 1
    Here's something along those lines.
    Lawrence Hargrave, 1893:

    "Workers must root out the idea [that] by keeping the results of their labors to themselves[,] a fortune will be assured to them. Patent fees are much wasted money. The flying machine of the future will not be born fully fledged and capable of a flight for 1000 miles or so. Like everything else it must be evolved gradually. The first difficulty is to get a thing that will fly at all. When this is made, a full description should be published as an aid to others. Excellence of design and workmanship will always defy competition."

  64. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by jodido · · Score: 0

    More risk in new stuff. Capitalism today=major risk aversion. Why there are remakes, sequels, prequels, films based on video games and tv show sketches from Hollywood, copycat comedies and reality shows on TV, and no investment in new plant or equipment or employees from industrial capital.

  65. Perception Issue by NitWit005 · · Score: 1

    There is definitely less risk taking, but there is a big issue of perception. Things just don't seem mind blowing after a while, even if there is tons of work left to be done in that area. You see this again and again: cars got boring, planes got boring, nuclear energy got boring, space flight got boring. Everything gets boring eventually. Most computing related areas have lost their cultural edge. It's hard to pitch things as being innovative, even if they really are, and have people buy the idea.

  66. Re:What happend with trillions lost in Silicon Val by grouchomarxist · · Score: 1

    Minor nit-pick: AOL is not a Silicon Valley company. It was an important company in the 90s .com boom, but it is east coast.

  67. It has become too difficult to innovate. by master_p · · Score: 1

    There was a huge technological explosion the previous decades, and now it is really hard to come up with original ideas. It seems like whatever was there to be discovered is already discovered. Now there is only room for renovation.

    Take the human-computer interface, for example. We are stuck with GUIs for 3 decades. The face of GUIs has changed a lot, but that's only superficial; we have fancier displays now, and that's about it. We still click and drag, even if we do it with our fingers instead of a mouse. Our screens are still filled with buttons and input boxes, just like in the previous decades.

    1. Re:It has become too difficult to innovate. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      The face of GUIs has changed a lot, but that's only superficial; we have fancier displays now, and that's about it.

      If that's what we were supposed to be getting, somebody should have told Microsoft. :P

  68. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

    Why, oh why do you hate America?

  69. No it isn't... by Burz · · Score: 1

    That's the car that will save local businesses, letting them compete with Amazon on convenience and beat them on speed.

    That's my future.

    LOL!! It amazes me how people get high on this crap. Human drivers do not hobble small business any more than they do big business (hint: Amazon relies on human drivers). If anything, driverless cars would enable giants like Amazon to expand with myriad small distribution centers and put carriers like UPS out of business.

    The only types of business they would be a boon to would be the ones that rely on production that is both local and diffuse-- like restaurants or dry cleaners. Even then, I'm not so sure these businesses would count driver pay as a huge chunk of their expenses.

    Re: flying cars
    FWIW computers are going in the opposite direction than the childish fantasies of armchair aviators-- more specialization.

    Since it is the aim of the flying car enthusiasts to build a vehicle that can take off and land in a very short distance, then why not just design such an airplane and be done with it?? If being in the air is so good and feasible, what is the overriding need to hug the surface of roads at all?

    Re: innovation
    I increasingly get the impression mysticism or religion being preached to the converted with 'Innovation' used as a buzzword used to evoke esteem or reverence for the people who apply it; Its like 'Amen'.

    There is no substantial difference in our day-to-day physical lives since the 1970s except for the following: The proliferation of microprocessors, an expansion of prescribed antipsychotic and antibiotic drugs, skyrocketing suburban sprawl and travel times, the expansion of the prison system and police powers in preference over schools, and the offshoring of labor. Add the effects of global warming to the list of what is increasingly noticeable. This is not the stuff of Futurism or Sci-Fi or the old technologists "progress" because nearly all of that was fantasy of the sort that could barely be given the veneer of scientific plausibility.

    With a flow of dollars acting like prayer, the goal is to conjure up a second coming of the halcyon days and to finally fulfill the old prophecies (swarming cars to swarming flying cars to swarming spaceships) all the while further removing people's frame of mind from any sort of ecological context. And like some of the worst examples of religion today, we are told and suggested on many levels that all of this consumer fantasizing is scientific when mostly its dangerous bunk.

  70. Idea vs. invention by tepples · · Score: 1

    Patent's on Ideas should once again be ILLEGAL since they should have never been made legal.

    This hinges on there being some sort of bright line between an "idea" and an "invention". A novel and non-obvious process for doing something is currently deemed an invention. I haven't seen any airtight definition of where an idea becomes a process. Any thoughts?

    it's all in history books if you care to go read.

    Which books about the history of the U.S. patent system do you recommend? I'll have to see if I can find them at a local library.

  71. Re:Guy who should get a job at FOX news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really awesome way to argue there.

    See, when you just acuse your opponent of being lazy and racist, you don't need to back up your claims with anything! It's the best way to argue because it requires no effort. Just go ahead and make accusations without any basis in reality, and you are sure to win!

  72. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, if they're making money, who cares? Sounds like somebody likes what they're doing enough to pay money for their services. What James Temple doesn't realize, obviously, is that most people are just like that. There's very few true inventors and inventions, and most things are just copies of other things that are slightly modified.

  73. When to use between "on" or "about"? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

    Consider "The Hypocrisy In Silicon Valley's Big Talk On Innovation".

    When I grew up, we sat on a chair, got off the seat, walked on the floor, turned on the light, were on topic or off topic, but we always were talking or writing about.

    Should todays headline read "The Hypocrisy In Silicon Valley's Big Talk about Innovation"?
    The existing headline did not turn me on.

    --
    Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    1. Re:When to use between "on" or "about"? by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Sometimes, ya just need a good old-fashioned grammar Nazi.

      Sig Heil!

    2. Re:When to use between "on" or "about"? by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Sometimes in life we have to chuckle a little or remember to teach our children that we should not follow that author who wrote "Madame Malaprop" (translation "Mrs. WrongWord")

      Madame Malaprop is a literary figure, whose claim to fame is her uncanny habit of using the wrong word in a manner that makes sense under absurd circumstances.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  74. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by dbIII · · Score: 1

    I looked at your posting history to try to work out where the hell such weirdness came from, then from reading what I found there it appears that calling you out on such a stupid and misleading insult would be like kicking a puppy. Best of luck and I hope things improve.

  75. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by daem0n1x · · Score: 1

    Whoooooooooosh!

  76. Re:how do you make money if you don't sell anythin by dbIII · · Score: 1

    OK then - please tell me what movie, comic or TV show your joke depends on and you may come across as somewhat less pathetic and disturbed.