Berkeley Scientists Plan To 'Jurassic Park' Some Extinct Pigeons Back To Life

phenopticon writes "Researchers at Berkeley are attempting to revive the extinct passenger pigeon in order to set up a remote island theme park full of resurrected semi-modern extinct animals. (Well, maybe not that last part.) Quoting: 'About 1,500 passenger pigeons inhabit museum collections. They are all that's left of a species once perceived as a limitless resource. The birds were shipped in boxcars by the tons, sold as meat for 31 cents per dozen, and plucked for mattress feathers. But in a mere 25 years, the population shrank from billions to thousands as commercial hunters decimated nesting flocks. Martha, the last living bird, took her place under museum glass in 1914. ... Ben Novak doesn't believe the story should end there. The 26-year-old genetics student is convinced that new technology can bring the passenger pigeon back to life. "This whole idea that extinction is forever is just nonsense," he says. Novak spent the last five years working to decipher the bird's genes, and now he has put his graduate studies on hold to pursue a goal he'd once described in a junior high school fair presentation: de-extinction. ... Using next-generation sequencing, scientists identified the passenger pigeon's closest living relative: Patagioenas fasciata, the ubiquitous band-tailed pigeon of the American west. This was an important step. The short, mangled DNA fragments from the museums' passenger pigeons don't overlap enough for a computer to reassemble them, but the modern band-tailed pigeon genome could serve as a scaffold. Mapping passenger pigeon fragments onto the band-tailed sequence would suggest their original order."

Comments

And after the pigeons get loose and take over....

[Andrio]

"It's a UNIX system! I know this!"

what could go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

GMOs released into the wild is a very bad thing. It is impossible to predict the ramifications of this.
While I'd like to restore an extinct species, this sort of thing is outright irresponsible.

Re:what could go wrong?

[Joce640k]

While I'd like to restore an extinct species, this sort of thing is outright irresponsible.

As irresponsible as wiping them out without thinking of the ramifications?

Re:what could go wrong?

[hawguy]

While I'd like to restore an extinct species, this sort of thing is outright irresponsible.

As irresponsible as wiping them out without thinking of the ramifications?

What about the ramifications of bringing an extinct bird back to life that was adapted to thrive in a much different environment than exists today? Are its natural predators still around or will the passenger pigeon take over and push out other species (not to mention causing crop and tree damage)?

http://www.si.edu/encyclopedia_Si/nmnh/passpig.htm

Because the passenger pigeon congregated in such huge numbers, it needed large forests for its existence. When the early settlers cleared the eastern forests for farmland, the birds were forced to shift their nesting and roosting sites to the forests that still remained. As their forest food supply decreased, the birds began utilizing the grain fields of the farmers. The large flocks of passenger pigeons often caused serious damage to the crops, and the farmers retaliated by shooting the birds and using them as a source of meat. However, this did not seem to seriously diminish the total number of birds.

Has anyone asked Jeff Goldblum to weigh in?

Re:what could go wrong?

[The Grim Reefer]

Are its natural predators still around

Well the one that made it an extinct species in less than 25 years is. We're also more prevalent than ever and could probably do it more efficiently now too.

or will the passenger pigeon take over and push out other species (not to mention causing crop and tree damage)?

Unless they are much different than current pigeons, I think bridges and building are in more danger.

Re:what could go wrong?

[Zumbs]

Bringing them back could raise some interesting questions on how the behavior of animals are inherited from generation to generation. Will the passenger pigeons act like their ancestors or will they take on different behavior?

Re:what could go wrong?

[khallow]

What makes you think this is GMO related? Is this guy going to splice in some roundup genes?

Re:what could go wrong?

[gtbritishskull]

Passenger pidgeons would be easy to eradicate again if needed. They rely on having enormous numbers to survive (like a cicada, or locusts). When a flock moves into the area, there are not enough predators to eat anywhere near a significant portion of the population. If they don't have a big enough flock, then they are easily wiped out by natural predation. And, if they do have a big flock, then humans can kill off a majority of it (as we have demonstrated in the past).

Re:what could go wrong?

[gtbritishskull]

GMO stands for "Genetically Modified Organism".

Re:what could go wrong?

[hawguy]

or will the passenger pigeon take over and push out other species (not to mention causing crop and tree damage)?

Unless they are much different than current pigeons, I think bridges and building are in more danger.

Well, that's kind of the problem with bringing back an extinct species - you don't really know how will behave in the current environment until you bring it back. At first it's declared an endangered/protected species, and it starts to grow... flocks of thousands of birds in the air show the success of the program. Then the flocks grow millions, people start to complain about crop damage as the flocks grow to 100's of millions, putting entire forests are at risk.

It took man 25 years to drive them to extinction (and that's when he had the help from natural predators the had evolved to keep the birds in check), even if it "only" takes 10 years the next time, there's a lot of damage that could be done in the meantime. Plus, man may overshoot the mark and drive other species to extinction in their drive to control the passenger pigeon.

Sometimes it's better to let sleeping dogs lie.

Re:what could go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a pigeon. I'm normally all for protecting biodiversity in as much as nature would without us, but... it's a pigeon. It doesn't appear that the end of one minor variant has done any serious damage to our ecosystem. I realize I'm treading dangerously close to Limbaugh-style rhetoric here. I'm not advocating the careless destruction of species.

And as a procedural experiment and a lead-up to bringing back something we don't have trillions of, I'm sure it's entirely worth doing.

Re:what could go wrong?

[Algae_94]

I hear what your saying about the dangers of bringing back extinct species, but the last passenger pigeon died in 1914. It's not exactly like their predators have all evolved into something else. We already have other pigeons, sure this is a different species, but I think we have a good idea about their behavior and biology from similar species and historic accounts.

Re:what could go wrong?

[nospam007]

" I think bridges and building are in more danger."

Thank god you're not a statue.

Re:what could go wrong?

[shaitand]

This isn't a genetically modified organism. He is producing a faithful reproduction of a natural organism not modifying the genetics of one.

Re:what could go wrong?

[KingSkippus]

Are its natural predators still around or will the passenger pigeon take over and push out other species (not to mention causing crop and tree damage)?

Don't worry, we can bring that stuff back, too!

Re:what could go wrong?

[gtbritishskull]

He is trying to make a faithful reproduction. In actuality, he is going to use another organism's DNA as a base and splice genes from the passenger pidgeon onto it. So, it will be a mixture of the two creature's DNA. Might be 99% passenger pidgeon, but that is still a mixture. So, it will be a GMO. Not trying to judge whether this is "good" or "bad", just trying to be accurate.

Re:what could go wrong?

[fldsofglry]

In America, the basic ecology of the passenger pigeon was known. I am sure there were nuances that we could have discovered about their role in the environment, but in general, their niche has been taken up by the mourning doves (Zenaida macroura). If we were to magically have breeding populations of passenger pigeons around, I suspect that we would see mourning dove populations decline and move back toward their more "natural" niche from pre-19th century.

Re:what could go wrong?

[tylikcat]

Well, no, he's looking at using recovered DNA to create a hybrid with a modern species - which is indeed a genetically modified organism. (And is pretty much what was being discussed in Jurassic Park, stripped of the sensational and thriller elements. Well, and the mosquitos preserved in amber.)

Re:what could go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Due to multiple typos in the remapped genome, the new pidgeons come preprogrammed with behavior observed in Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds"....

Re:what could go wrong?

[psvm]

" I think bridges and building are in more danger."

Thank god you're not a statue.

Don't Blink.

Re:what could go wrong?

[Bartles]

While I'd like to restore an extinct species, this sort of thing is outright irresponsible.

So is a luddite knee-jerk reaction to everything related to the phrase genetically modified.

Re:what could go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA there were over 1 billion of them in 1890 and then went extinct by 1914. You really think their natural predators have now all evolved to ignore them?

Re:what could go wrong?

[RoccamOccam]

Small typo there - it should be "Passendger pidgeons".

Re:what could go wrong?

[thomasw_lrd]

We have the same problem right now with Snow Geese. They are a waterfowl that we thought needed protection. So we protected them. Now there are so many of them, they are overpopulating summer breeding grounds in Canada. So much so, that they are the only species of migratory waterfowl that has it's own hunting season at the end of the regular waterfowl season with no bag limit and all the other regular waterfowl season restrictions loosened. (You can use electronic calls, no shell limits, unplugged shotguns). They are practically begging hunters to kill as many as possible. And the hunters aren't doing a good job at it. The population keeps increasing every year.

Re:what could go wrong?

[hawguy]

RTFA there were over 1 billion of them in 1890 and then went extinct by 1914. You really think their natural predators have now all evolved to ignore them?

Some of their natural predators are now endangered themselves. Some of them are also known to be a nuisance to humans. Do you really want to give them an unlimited food source? Maybe the birds won't be a problem, but the rise of predators will be.

And are you sure that the predators can reproduce fast enough to keep up with the growth of pigeons?

And what happens to the ecosystems that are taken over by the expanding population of new predators (and the predators of the predators?)? And what happens to the new predator population if the pigeons are eradicated again?

This country is much different than it was 100 years ago, so maybe the birds will no longer thrive and it's a non-issue. Or maybe the easy access to crops and current lack of predators will let them grow to even greater numbers than before.

"I don't know why she swallowed the fly"

Re:what could go wrong?

[bluefoxlucid]

Wolves are a serious keystone species and the population collapse will be the most significant species loss ever. Everything else is basically fluff. Pandas wtf?

Re:what could go wrong?

[shaitand]

It would be better than 99% passenger pidgin if he used just the base creatures DNA. The idea is that he most of the passenger pidgin's DNA and it is unlikely any of the missing DNA is different than the original passenger pidgin. In all probability if the result works it will be 100% identical to passenger pidgin's DNA or at least have less variation than there is from one passenger pidgin to the next.

Re:what could go wrong?

[shaitand]

"to create a hybrid with a modern species"

The physical bits of DNA would be hybrid but most of the DNA in either species is identical DNA. Since he already has most of the DNA from the carrier pidgin and is using a species with almost the same DNA in all probability he is filling the gaps with the same DNA that was there in the first place. The probability of it being identical becomes drastically better if it works. Or nearly identical... the DNA wasn't identical between the actual passenger pidgins he gathered fragments from but there shouldn't be any more variation than there would be from one member of the species to the next.

He has a pack of orange koolaid and he's got a pitcher of already made red koolaid. When he distills off the water and combines it with his packet of orange koolaid it won't be a modified koolaid but will in fact be orange koolaid. There would likely have been ions that carried over with distillation but they will be less significant than the variations in the source water used to make orange koolaid in the first place.

Re:what could go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are looking at the ripple effect quite properly and I agree that's the way it should be looked at.

That said, we have considerable control of the species most deterministic to their population. Us. If we see the factors your talking about, we can simply wipe them out again. Yeah, I know it sounds unkind, but we are not introducing a unique new species, and it's a fact we can kill them all (or close enough). If we're going to dabble in this bit of science I couldn't imagine a safer starting point. Especially since there is no/little money in it.

Things like cane toads, were introduced for monetary purposes and had no natural predators. I think that's a formula for a disaster, but I'm not convinced we are repeating that here.

Can you suggest a better first species to bring back, or should we simply run away from this branch of science like frightened bunnies?

Re:what could go wrong?

[FatLittleMonkey]

However, there are about 80 million pet cats in the US, and an estimated 50-60 million feral cats. Perfectly evolved hunters, largely immune to fluctuations in food availability, which the passenger pigeon didn't co-evolve with.

Wolves are an counter-example to your overreaction. They have been reintroduced to the US, and reintroducing a top predator is a hell of a lot more risky than reintroducing a pigeon. Broadly, reintroductions just don't cause the problems you claim and either dramatically improve things, or die out again. You are thinking of the problems of introduced foreign pest-species and projecting that onto the vastly safer re-introductions.

(Also, wolves are pigeon predators? WTF?)

Re:what could go wrong?

[dwye]

While I'd like to restore an extinct species, this sort of thing is outright irresponsible.

As irresponsible as wiping them out without thinking of the ramifications?

You won't be saying this when some big starship comes around and, not finding any passenger pigeons (yes, Star Trek IV had it wrong) starts destroying the planet.

Re:what could go wrong?

[dwye]

The new passenger pigeons will destroy the mourning doves? As someone who has them monopolizing our feeder, GOOD!!!

Re:what could go wrong?

[Bing Tsher E]

So instead of ten or twenty mourning doves you now have 1500 passenger pigeons in the backyard. ..

Re:what could go wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Finally a valid reason for private ownership of this!

and then

[synapse7]

saber-tooth tigers?

Re:and then

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's starting the crowd funding page?

Re:and then

[Anonymous Coward]

How about bring back some species of bees to try to reinforce those that may currently be in danger? It would be a real pain if people had to go from flower to flower ensuring that pollination occurs.....

Re:and then

[schneidafunk]

Actually on the list of candidates they list the Smilodon (saber-toothed cat).

Re:and then

[Bigby]

I think there was a study (and /. posting) that it is theoretically not possible to "Jurassic Park" anything older than Saber Tooth or Mammoth. I think it is because of the genetic half-life. So doing a Saber Tooth probably wouldn't be the next step. More like one of the last steps. But it might be the most profitable...

Re:and then

[WindBourne]

Only after mammoths and mastodons.

Re:and then

[roc97007]

I was thinking, the Rocky Mountain Locust.

Then, after that, smallpox.

Re:and then

[Anonymous Coward]

How about letting the scientists doing the proof of concept choose the species they start with rather than bitching that the "cloning extinct species" equivalent of "Hello World" isn't useful enough.

Re:and then

[Anonymous Coward]

Smallpox isn't technically extinct. There are many samples in suspended animation in the vaults owned by various CDC equivalent agencies around the world.

We're also clear of heard immunity (I doubt anyone under the age of 30 is immunized, and it's probably patchy in the 30-50 range) so all you'd need to do is infect a suitable population with one of the samples and it'd be a real disease again.

Re:and then

[nospam007]

"How about bring back some species of bees to try to reinforce those that may currently be in danger?"

The bees that killed all the dinosaurs, because they were pissed about the bad weather after the asteroid hit?

Re:and then

[roc97007]

I was wondering about that. Wife and I both have smallpox vaccine scars, but we're in our fifties. I don't clearly remember the process, but have a dim memory that it was really intrusive. I wonder, would a new smallpox vaccine leave such a scar, or was that merely a product of the technology of the time?

For the next bird to bring back from extinction, I vote for Phorusrhacids.

Re:and then

[Anonymous Coward]

In 2002, when I was about to deploy to southwest Asia, the US Army vaccinated me against smallpox (amongst other things, like anthrax). The nurse literally took a long, sterile straightpin, stuck it in a jar of gunk, and then stuck me in the arm.

That said, the scar is not an artifact of the process. The scar is because the smallpox vaccine, which is actually the vaccinia virus, leaves a scar when it heals.

Re:and then

[roc97007]

Thanks. That was fascinating. (And somewhat gross.) I was aware that cowpox was used to create the vaccine, but there was a lot of things in the wiki that I did not know.

So the answer appears to be, yes, a new wave of mandatory smallpox vaccination would create a whole new generation of people with vaccine scars.

Re:and then

[Anonymous Coward]

saber-tooth pigeons.

Re:and then

[QQBoss]

We're also clear of heard immunity (I doubt anyone under the age of 30 is immunized, and it's probably patchy in the 30-50 range) so all you'd need to do is infect a suitable population with one of the samples and it'd be a real disease again.

Oh, jeesh, too easy.

Re:and then

[QQBoss]

In China, India, and quite a few other Asian countries that I am aware of, at least currently college age students were vaccinated against smallpox and have the scars to prove it.

Where I lived in the USA, they stopped vaccinating for smallpox the year I was supposed to receive it (1972, IIRC) according to my mother, but my sister (older by 3 years) has the scar.

Ah Ah Ah!

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't say the magic word!

Time frame

[schneidafunk]

"How soon will some extinct creature live again?

Signs are there will be some impressive milestones in this decade. Technically one extinction has already been partially reversed. The last Pyrenean ibex (also called a bucardo) died in 2000. A Spanish team used frozen tissue to clone a living twin in 2003, birthed by a goat. The baby ibex died of respiratory failure after ten minutes (a common problem in early cloning efforts). Funding dried up, so no further work has been done on this species as yet. As George Church reminds people, the first airplane flight in 1903 lasted 12 seconds."

From the FAQ - http://longnow.org/revive/faq-recommended-reading/

Re:Time frame

[Joce640k]

The last Pyrenean ibex (also called a bucardo) died in 2000

...yet there's a media panic if the supply of Twinkies looks like it's in danger.

Priorities, people.

Re:Time frame

[Bigby]

And airplane flights today could last a maximum of a day. That doesn't speak to well for cloned species in 2100.

* tongue-in-cheek

Re:Time frame

[The Grim Reefer]

The last Pyrenean ibex (also called a bucardo) died in 2000

...yet there's a media panic if the supply of Twinkies looks like it's in danger.

Priorities, people.

Holy shit! I didn't know about this. So we've finally hunted the Twinkies into extinction? How may breeding pairs of Twinkies are left?

Re:Time frame

[kaiidth]

The record is apparently 216 hours for the Rutan Voyager, that is, nine days.

Okay, if survival times for cloned species scale up linearly with flight endurance records, it still isn't great news for the ibex...

Re:Time frame

[Attila Dimedici]

Well, no new Twinkies have been "born" since November. Fortunately, Twinkies have a life span of indefinite duration and scientists are now predicting that they will be able to get them started at reproduction again by this summer.

Re:Time frame

[Anonymous Coward]

The last Pyrenean ibex (also called a bucardo) died in 2000

...yet there's a media panic if the supply of Twinkies looks like it's in danger.

Well duh! Twinkies are delicious, while the Pyrenean Ibex is too gamey to be delicious.

Tastiness talks.

Re:Time frame

[Anonymous Coward]

This humorous "cult of silliness" with Twinkies, pizza, bacon, etc started in social sites (low entry barrier for ideas) and has gained ground in mainstream outlets. I was immediately reminded of the attention given to the heist on the maple syrup reserve.

Re:Time frame

[Anonymous Coward]

Not quite true. The less populous Canadian sub-species exists in a stable, domesticated environment. They seem to be more individualistic than the major North American species, and scientists are not sure whether offspring of the two kinds of Twinkies will be infertile. If offspring are fully fertile, they might be able to contribute the the genetic diversity and robustness of the Twinkie biome.

Re:Time frame

[Anonymous Coward]

One pair, and I'm a bit hungry right now!!!! :D

Muah ha ha ha ha!!!!!

Re:Time frame

[shaitand]

So you are saying ibex is tastier than a Twinkie? Priorities is right, a fresh twinkie is quite (disturbingly) tasty. What does the Pyrenean ibex do for us?

Re:Time frame

[shaitand]

They're being made. They are calling them something else though.

Re:Time frame

[JWW]

Contrary to popular belief, twinkies DO have an expiration date....

Re:Time frame

[IronOxen]

Contrary to popular belief, twinkies DO have an expiration date....

Just because one was printed on the package for the last few years does not mean it has any validity or basis. What no one knows yet is that the last Twinkie was baked in 1976. Recently, the supply that has been repackaged time and time again since then with fresh expiration dates ran out.

Re:Time frame

[Attila Dimedici]

Have YOU ever tasted a "stale" Twinkie? How could you tell?

Re:Time frame

[Bobfrankly1]

Have YOU ever tasted a "stale" Twinkie? How could you tell?

Stale Twinkies taste better. That and they bounce.

Re:Time frame

[Chris Mattern]

Compare the number of people alive who have eaten a Twinkie to the number of people alive who have even ever *seen* a Pyrenean Ibex. So which one is more relevant to most people?

Re:Time frame

[SleazyRidr]

Obligatory? http://theoatmeal.com/pl/state_web_winter_2012/twinkies

Re:Time frame

[SleazyRidr]

Doesn't even have to be fresh. I left a Twinkie sitting out for a year and it still tasted amazing.

Re:Time frame

[mabhatter654]

Woody Harlsen hunted them all to extinction... Practice for Xombies!

Re:Time frame

[Anonymous Coward]

How may breeding pairs of Twinkies are left?

Twinkies reproduce asexually, like gumdrops and chocolate chips. The outside is just cake. The stuff inside is the real twinkie.

Re:Time frame

[davidbrit2]

Well is the ibex cream-filled? No? Then tell it to get its ass to the back of the line like everybody else.

Re:Time frame

[Anonymous Coward]

Awww, looks like a lazy sot works for a union, probably -1ed from their work PC. LOL!

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[hawguy]

Don't be silly, nothing like that could happen - the new birds will be engineered to make them unable to produce Lysine, so they'll be dependent upon Lysine supplements from their keepers. Stop feeding them Lysine and the bio-engineered birds will die. Easy-peasy. What could go wrong?

Unintended consequences

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe there was a reason that people where so eager to get rid of those pigeons back in the day. Think of today's Canadian geese for example.

The idea that the laboratory reincarnated species can be confined to an island of the scientists' choosing, well that's just laughable. There *will* be issues with locales around the world that never dreamed they'd see the critters.

Re:Unintended consequences

[olsmeister]

I'm sure there are a lot of Canadian geese of many varieties that live on farms in Canada, but I suspect you mean to use the Canada Goose for your example.

Re:Unintended consequences

[Desler]

They were hunting them for food not to get rid of them.

Re:Unintended consequences

[Looker_Device]

Maybe we could train the Passenger Pigeons to fight the Canada Geese. Win-win!

Re:Unintended consequences

[Ungrounded Lightning]

"Canadian" (as opposed to "Canada") Goose/Geese is a recognized regional variant of the name of the animal.

Screw Pigeons

[buzzsawddog]

I want my dog back. Perhaps modify the gene's so he does not run out in the middle of the road?

Re:Screw Pigeons

[Desler]

Did he sing any good songs?

Re:Screw Pigeons

[nman64]

No, just "Walking on Sunshine"...

Re:Screw Pigeons

[camperdave]

Middle of the road: Dangerous place to be indecisive. For you cryptic crossword folks.

That's how you do it

[gurps_npc]

We don't resurrect the huge man killers, we bring back the harmless little ones.

Yes, we could have started with saber-tooth tigers. But no, we don't.

Because this isn't a movie, and we aren't pretending to be idiots just to move a plot along.

Re:That's how you do it

[TheFakeMcCoy]

They just haven't told us about the tigers that's what youtube is for

Re:That's how you do it

[schneidafunk]

Saber-tooth cats (incorrectly referred to as tigers) are on the list.

http://longnow.org/revive/candidates/

Re:That's how you do it

[Anonymous Coward]

No. Just no. I wish ALL pigeons were extinct. You want to bring them back? Fine. I hope they poop all over YOUR car. At least you can shoot the big animals for sport, and if you hunt them to extinction again, what's the loss?

Re:That's how you do it

[0xdeadbeef]

Idiots don't move the plot, the "hubris" of not considering absurd coincidences and bullshit science move the plot.

Crichton hated environmentalists, but he promoted more magic thinking and anti-science rhetoric than all the worst tree huggers combined.

Re:That's how you do it

[Anonymous Coward]

Google.
IPoAC.

Re:That's how you do it

[PolygamousRanchKid]

Saber-tooth cats (incorrectly referred to as tigers) are on the list.

Please add me to the list . . .

Re:That's how you do it

[Bobfrankly1]

Saber-tooth cats (incorrectly referred to as tigers) are on the list. http://longnow.org/revive/candidates/

As long as their higher on the list than sabre-wielding-cats, which for the record, scare the bajeezus out of me!

Re:That's how you do it

[Chris Mattern]

As long as their higher on the list than sabre-wielding-cats, which for the record, scare the bajeezus out of me!

Thundercats, ho!

This method won't resurrect knowledge.

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you resurrect a species learnt abilities and knowledge ? Okay birds look like pre-programmed robots, but saying things like "extinction is forever is just nonsense" is wrong. Numerous species pass their hunting, social, swimming or hiding knowledge from parents to children. In fact, even birds learn singing from listening to those of their kind.
Actually, i think when you resurrect a species, you just engineer a new one using pieces of stuff drawn from existing material ; lost knowledge is lost forever.

Re:This method won't resurrect knowledge.

[scotts13]

How do you resurrect a species learnt abilities and knowledge ? Okay birds look like pre-programmed robots, but saying things like "extinction is forever is just nonsense" is wrong. Numerous species pass their hunting, social, swimming or hiding knowledge from parents to children. In fact, even birds learn singing from listening to those of their kind.
Actually, i think when you resurrect a species, you just engineer a new one using pieces of stuff drawn from existing material ; lost knowledge is lost forever.

This has proven to be a problem, even (perhaps especially) with birds. Great efforts have been made to captive-breed Thick-Billed parrots, and reintroduce them to their former, southern USA habitat. The released birds typically starve. They have a very specific diet, and they don't have other birds in the wild to show them how to find it.

Is it a good thing?

[coolmoose25]

I read the article. One of the questions is whether or not it is a good thing to bring them back. Sure, humans brutally hunted them, but prior to that, they were quite the pests... destroying the trees they nested in and leaving "leavings" an inch thick. One of the points made by the guy running this now was that they should go through the exercise of figuring out answers to questions like those, before it gets to the point where DIY folks could do this in an irresponsible way. It might serve as a way to determine what the risks and benefits are for "de-extinction" before deciding to "de-extinct" anything.

Re:Is it a good thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

Risks: Billions of these birds all over, i.e. nothing that hasn't happened before. Benefits: Cheap free-range chow.

Re:Is it a good thing?

[Cro Magnon]

Risks: Billions of these birds all over, i.e. nothing that hasn't happened before.

Yeah, but the environment is different than it was when those pigeons were alive. For one thing, with the automobile everywhere, there are vastly more targets than there were in their day. The thought of hundreds of million of cars covered in pigeon poop should scare anyone! Don't do it!!

Re:Is it a good thing?

[Somebody Is Using My]

I don't see the problem. Problems like these have already been considered by the experts

When the pigeons become a pest, we just release some Bolivian tree lizards. If those become a nuisance, we simply release wave after wave of Chinese needle snakes. They'll wipe out the lizards. If you have a problem with snakes, well, we've lined up a fabulous type of gorilla that thrives on snake meat. And the beautiful part of /that/ plan is, when wintertime rolls around the gorillas simply freeze to death!

See? Nature will find a way! So clone, my little mad scientists, clone like you have never cloned before!

Re:Is it a good thing?

[malignant_minded]

Maybe they will eat stink bugs! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_marmorated_stink_bug

Re:Is it a good thing?

[WillAdams]

Read about the things --- flocks would _whitewash_ the ground in guano and would eat a significant portion of a field before moving on.

Re:Is it a good thing?

[shaitand]

"destroying the trees they nested in and leaving "leavings" an inch thick"

So they removed a giant sun blocker and laid down loads of fertilizer to spawn new growth in the sun. Yeah obvious pests there is no way that could have served a useful function in the ecosystem.

Re:Is it a good thing?

[mabhatter654]

Oh! ive herde this one!!

There was an old lady who swallowed a Spider?

Re:Is it a good thing?

[Anonymous Coward]

If that doesn't work I know an old lady who swallowed a fly who would be happy to help.

Re:Is it a good thing?

[pigwin32]

I read the article.

You read the article? Holy shit, I thought people like you were extinct on slashdot. Do you know how many like you are left? I would ask if there are sufficient for a breeding population but this is slashdot after all.

Dinosaur DNA

[Anonymous Coward]

So, why can't we do this with man-eating dinosaurs?? There isn't ANY of their DNA preserved anywhere? Nowhere? No permanently frozen places, or inside a sealed, fossilized drop of sap? Nothing?
I want the real Jurassic Park.... not pigeons

Re:Dinosaur DNA

[Guspaz]

The basic gist is that any dinosaur DNA would be completely degraded. DNA has a half-life of 521 years with variations based on environmental conditions. A 2012 study showed that DNA would degrade past the point that we could read anything useful out of it after 1.5 million years, and would degrade completely after 6.8 million, and those are under optimal conditions. The Jurassic period ended 145 million years ago.

Source: http://m.mnn.com/green-tech/research-innovations/stories/scientists-dash-hopes-for-dinosaur-cloning

MOD PARENT UP!

[Brett Buck]

Thread over, you win!

Here's how it all goes down...

[Anonymous Coward]

God creates pigeons. God destroys pigeons. God creates Man. Man destroys God. Man creates pigeons. Pigeons destroy Man. Pigeons inherit the Earth.

Re:Here's how it all goes down...

[Anonymous Coward]

Pigeons create God. God smites Pigeons with both wings and beak. God creates Homo lolcatus.

Re:Here's how it all goes down...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hitchcock had it right all along!
Death to the birds!

Re:Here's how it all goes down...

[P-niiice]

Is that the pecking order?

Re:Here's how it all goes down...

[excelsior_gr]

Scissors cut paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard, lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, scissors decapitate lizard, lizard eats paper, paper disproves Spock, Spock vaporizes rock, and as it always has, rock breaks scissors.

Re:Here's how it all goes down...

[mabhatter654]

We didn't have the Weeping Angels before Passenger Pigeon were extinct...

ALWAYS WATCHING

Re:Here's how it all goes down...

[Anonymous Coward]

So the world came into exists in 1914? Good to know everything I've been told about history is a lie!

More FrankenBird than Un-extinction

[coinreturn]

The short, mangled DNA fragments from the museums' passenger pigeons don't overlap enough for a computer to reassemble them, but the modern band-tailed pigeon genome could serve as a scaffold. Mapping passenger pigeon fragments onto the band-tailed sequence would suggest their original order."

Not quite the original, so not exactly a de-extinction. More of a new breed of Frankenbird.

Re:More FrankenBird than Un-extinction

[schneidafunk]

To be fair, you are quoting the summary and that is not said on the project's main website. However, they do say:

" Its DNA has already been sequenced... The genomes of the two birds will be compared in close detail, to determine which differences are most crucial. Then the data and analysis goes to George Church’s lab at Harvard’s Wyss Institute to begin the process of converting the viable band-tailed DNA into viable passenger pigeon DNA... There are some 1,500 preserved specimens with extractable DNA."

http://longnow.org/revive/projects/

Re:More FrankenBird than Un-extinction

[shaitand]

Maybe, maybe not. The DNA the forms the difference between the species is likely to be an extremely tiny portion with the vast majority being identical. If the part that is different is contained within the fragments the result will be the original bird... if not, Frankenbird. Does it really matter? It isn't like the little shit machines are around to disprove our belief that we've resurrected them!

Say what?

[fustakrakich]

Suggest their original order?

Is that like when I order a chocolate sundae and I get a ham on rye?

I have a feeling that they will hatch inside out, or some other horror movie equivalent..

Re:Say what?

[Anonymous Coward]

Suggest their original order?

Is that like when I order a chocolate sundae and I get a ham on rye?

I have a feeling that they will hatch inside out, or some other horror movie equivalent..

Depends on if they have any missing fragments. They've effectively got fragments of one version of the bible, so they're comparing it to the text of another version to try to get the order right: many parts will overlap and match exactly, so they can be pretty damn sure where those parts go. Some parts of each version will have text which is slightly different, but if you know the meaning you can match the differently-phrased-but-identical-meaning parts and be relatively confident they're in the right place.

The problem is if there are large chunks of text missing from the passenger pigeon code. If the gap is large enough it increases the chance you're going to have differences between the original passenger pigeon code and the band-tailed pigeon code. Do you just substitute the other in and hope for the best?

Re:Say what?

[wierd_w]

They have over 1000 stuffed pidgeons though. Assuming only half of them have extractable dna (a very pessimistic figure), even if a single stuffed corpse is missing a viable gene sequence, there are 499 other birds that might have the missing section. Odds are good that they will be able to assemble a few "complete bibles" from the patched together scraps.

The long term issue I see is genetic bottlenecking, like what currently plagues the cheetah. 1000 COMPLETE copies is the bare minimum, assuming that all samples are unrelated, to efficiently preserve and purpetuate a species without having lots of deleterious homolozygous mutations showing up over time. These passenger pidgeons would be likely to develop sterility issues, and deleterious genetic disorders. "De-extincting" them would mean continual cloning and reintroduction of birds into the genepool to boost the numbers of healthy genes in the population. I doubt he would be able to crowdsource that kind of long term financial investment.

What we have here, is around 1000 incomplete copies. The number of whole genome sequences they can lift from those pieces greatly determines how viable the passenger pidgeon will be as a reintroduced wild species. With their sample size, and the conditions of their samples, however, prospects aren't terribly optimistic.

End meme dominance now!

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

"This whole idea that extinction is forever is just nonsense," [Novak]says.

I've been saying his for 10 damned years. While local ecosystem issues might be of mild concern, the idea of some horrific, inconceivable, once-and-for-all loss is asinine, and people a hundred years from now will look back on grinding regulations as beyond stupid insofar as it slows down the economy, when delta-tech outweighs all other considerations when seeking to save lives.

Samuel L says

[ILongForDarkness]

I'm tired of the motha-fuckin saber-tooth tigers on the motha-fuckin golf course!

This is pretty old news (not surprising for /. I guess) but there was a Ted talk I think on Monday and it was filmed in February. I disagree with some of the ad hoc de-extinctions they propose. Lets bring back the wooly mammoth. Okay, so how well is things working out for normal elephants? Do you really thing asia won't go apeshit for some mammoth tusks?

Lets say we clearly know it was humans fault that a particular animal went extinct. Even then there are a lot of issues. The ecosystem has now changed if you add the animal again it might just go back to being extinct because it might be poorly adapted (wrong colour to camouflage in urban environment for example), might still be of interest to poachers so as quick as you bring them back they get hunted right back down to extinction, and finally they might put other "invasive species" or ones that were already part of the ecosystem but grew due to lack of competition at risk as they come back and displace them.

That is just the ones that we feel guilty about but nothing will stop the tree huggers from wanting to get us to bring back everything even if it went extinct for its own good reasons or will have huge adverse effects in systems we already have trouble maintaining: ex. bringing back dinosaurs into jungles we are already cutting down for lumber. Not every species deserves or needs to thrive that is how evolution works. If you are too slow and too tasty you die.

Re:Samuel L says

[shaitand]

"they might put other "invasive species" or ones that were already part of the ecosystem but grew due to lack of competition at risk as they come back and displace them."

So you are saying it doesn't count because normal selection pressures and evolution could occur afterward? That's silly. Stability in the ecosystem is nothing but an illusion. A natural change triggering it is no better or worse than us doing it.

The right reason for doing this is because we learn from the process and the resulting creature. It increases our capabilities and further empowers humans. Additionally it amuses us. Humans evolved naturally, everything we do is therefore natural. Introducing a pesticide that draws parasites and causes a natural species to go extinct is no worse than if monkeys flinging feces introduces bacteria to a pool of water and disrupts the ecosystem around it and kills a species. The ecosystem as is isn't a precious thing and species aren't generally a precious thing.

The only logical reason we should exercise caution here is to try to avoid stabbing ourselves in the foot. In this case wiping out this particular variety of pidgin has robbed us of the ability to eat tasty and cheap pidgin. Nothing wrong with bringing back the little buggers so we can enjoy such delicacies again. Also, the more we learn and advance the less likely it is something will come along and find that humans are tasty and plentiful. If something does, we can send our pack of attack pidgins with freaking' laser beams on their heads after them. There is nothing wrong with bringing back the Wooly Mammoth just so we can farm the tusks.

Re:Samuel L says

[ILongForDarkness]

From the Ted talk about this though it sounded more of a play on the guilty of we did it so we need to undo it kind of thing. With global warming being a boogieman you can use to explain anything we might feel the need to bring everything back doing our damnedest to prevent evolution from ever leading to extinction. Then these uncompetitive creatures need to be protected (especially since we probably pissed away thousands per original creature in the population), land needs to be reserved for this, etc etc. Sometimes doing nothing is a valid solution.

Re:Samuel L says

[Brannoncyll]

Another good reason to bring back extinct creatures who died off due to humans is to attempt to reverse the drastic drop in species diversity. A healthy ecosystem needs a diverse range of species with different characteristics to make it more resilient to change. Considering that we seem to be very good at introducing sudden and massive changes to ecosystems across the globe, it seems like it might be in our best interests to do something before they collapse.

Re:Samuel L says

[shaitand]

"From the Ted talk about this though it sounded more of a play on the guilty of we did it so we need to undo it kind of thing."

Sure. Maybe they buy that and maybe not but without a cause you can't enough left wing nuts to back you so you can get past the right wing nuts who think this kind of thing is an affront against God(TM). If we don't come up with excuses to push this technology cloning will never get a chance to develop properly. Makes more sense to study them in captivity but I'm not opposed to hunger games on an island with a few t rex.

"Jurassic Park"?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, yeah. All nouns can be verbed.

Re:"Jurassic Park"?

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Sure, put ify in front of any noun and you can verbify it.

Re:"Jurassic Park"?

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL can "verb" be verbed too? Oh, now you got ME saying it...

Re:"Jurassic Park"?

[idunham]

Verbing weirds words.

Nifty!

[onyxruby]

Okay, I've read this book / seen this movie and know how this turns out so I've got a checklist for when extinct pigeons inevitably become terror-pigeons.

( ) Train young child on Unix
( ) Use old fashioned door knobs
( ) Get several big guns and don't store them in another building
( ) Make sure vehicles are ICE and not electric
( ) Redundant computer systems are good. You don't have good enough backups.
( ) Happy computer administrators are important when hosting terror critters. Make admins happy.
( ) The guy with the military training and the lawyer are always the first victims, get to know one of each so that you have warning
( ) Outhouses are bad
( ) Big thick steel doors are your friend
( ) Things can go wrong, that's what the lawyer and military training guys are for
( ) Objects in mirror are closer than they appear. Add more power to Jeep.

Re:Nifty!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the kind of funny I like to see on Slashdot! Each item recalls a memory from the movie and some of the contrived elements. Well done sir.

Re:Nifty!

[Anonymous Coward]

The movie was believable until the t-rex didn't upchuck the lawyer.

Obvious quote

[Anonymous Coward]

John Hammond: Condors. Condors are on the verge of extinction...
Dr. Ian Malcolm: [shaking his head] No...
John Hammond: If I was to create a flock of condors on this island, you wouldn't have anything to say.

Just Like Computers!

[Anonymous Coward]

As George Church reminds people, the first airplane flight in 1903 lasted 12 seconds."

Just like the first computers only used two digits: ones and zeros. And look at us today!

Re:Just Like Computers!

[IronOxen]

Um... When exactly did computers evolve more "digits" ? I bet there is some conspiracy that is hiding evidence of some error in DNA sequencing when the ExEightySixious was brought back from extinction and became ExEightySixious MultiCoreious

Should I Welcome Our New Internet Overlords?

[hutsell]

Give the problem to Google, Microsoft and Mozilla--the constant one-upmanship in this recreation could turn out to be interesting.

we should

[P-niiice]

We should make their shit be made of Gorilla Glue. That is what we should do.

What do you get...

[Tx]

Q: What do you get when you revive an extinct species of giant pig?
A: Jurassic pork

OK, I'll get my coat.

I wish to complain about this parrot

[fantomas]

It's not dead, it's resting! (oblig. Motny Python reference...)

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, yes, it was a Unix system. IRIX to be exact.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[ajlitt]

The solution is obviously to "Jurassic Park" Robert Frost.

Fuck pigeons *

[jolyonr]

Bring back a mammoth.

* figuratively, not literally, please.

Boring

[locopuyo]

I would never pay to go to an island and see a pigeon. I want to see a Tyrannosaurus Rex. Start working on the good animals.

Seriously, pigeons?

[Anonymous Coward]

Judging from the amount of crap they leave on my terrace, we really don't need more species of pigeon. Silly scientists.

We don't need anymore flying rats

[BLToday]

Why don't we find a use for all the city pigeons we do have right now. Make them tasty and I'm sure we can get rid of them within a generation.

Re:We don't need anymore flying rats

[Bing Tsher E]

To make them tasty you need to feed them higher quality food. In other words, stop allowing the urban pigeons to eat any random dirt that is available. The health and hygiene ramifications of all the dirty whatever that the urban pigeons eat no longer being cleaned up by them is also an issue. It's all nicely so complex.

Its easy to do

[TheSkepticalOptimist]

Inject the extinct DNA into a goat, milk the goat, distill the milk to get some stem cells of the extinct species out of it, put the stem cells into the kidneys of a mouse, clone the mouse 526 times, kill the mice, put them all in a BlendTec blender and whiz it for a bit, feed the muck to some chickens who will eventually hatch the extinct pigeons, market a new line of extra crispy "chicken" at KFC.

I mean is so freakin obvious how to do this kind of stuff I am not sure why we don't revive all extinct species in this way.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Anonymous Coward]

John Conure will teach us how to beat them.

Why not choose a more appealing subject?

[leftover]

If you are going to expend those resources why not pick something more desirable?
Bring Lindsey Lohan back to life and keep her/them away from Hollywood, for instance.
And whatever happened to the effort to reconstruct the auroch? I'd really like to see them.

Re:Why not choose a more appealing subject?

[Anonymous Coward]

And whatever happened to the effort to reconstruct the auroch? I'd really like to see them.

Me too! Look at the size of those things! Can you imagine the barbecue?

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's a UNIX system! I know this!"

But 2013 is the year of the Linux desktop, so surely that line will be change to "It's a Linux system! I know this!".

Hmmm... sounds familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

"The short, mangled DNA fragments from the museums' passenger pigeons don't overlap enough for a computer to reassemble them, but the modern band-tailed pigeon genome could serve as a scaffold. Mapping passenger pigeon fragments onto the band-tailed sequence would suggest their original order.""

"MR. DNA(straining)
- - to fill in the - - holes and - -complete - - the - -
(finally getting it)- - code! Whew!
He brushes his hands off, satisfied.
MR. DNA (cont'd)
Now we can make a baby dinosaur! .... Err a Pigeon!"

No worse than this crime

[ThatsNotPudding]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Acclimatization_Society

What utter idiots. Starlings suuuuuuuuuuuck.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Anonymous Coward]

Pigeons...find a way.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Well, yes, it was a Unix system. IRIX to be exact.

These days, you can have it too :-)

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Don't be silly, nothing like that could happen - the new birds will be engineered to make them unable to produce Lysine, so they'll be dependent upon Lysine supplements from their keepers. Stop feeding them Lysine and the bio-engineered birds will die. Easy-peasy. What could go wrong?

That's why Passenger Pigeons are the perfect choice. Clone a badass motherfucker, like a dinosaur, back to life, and any failure of the failsafes(which never are) makes you carnivore food.

Clone a dumb bird that suffered hundreds of millions of casualties against humans armed with 18th century technology? No problem. What're they going to do, lame you to death?

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod up! I hurt myself laughing at this.

Grammar

[emblemparade]

I love that Jurassic Park verbed.

Please don't do it.

[ctrl-alt-canc]

I just finished cleaning my patio from pidgeon droppings, you insensitive clod!

Next-generation

[tobiasly]

"Using next-generation sequencing..."

I see what you did there.

Oh lordy, how ridiculous.

[Anonymous Coward]

Did they consult some animal behaviorists?

In general, you can't just clone some DNA and expect to get a healthy species. Species need genetic diversity, numbers, and cultural knowledge. For instance, many birds learn their songs from their parents. And passenger pigeons nedd large masses of their kind gathering in order to get "in the mood" to breed.

Golden opportunity

[Grayhand]

Now can we genetically engineer them to not take a dump on my car?

They will be unable to breed

[coldsalmon]

According to Wikipedia, attempts at preserving the last surviving Passenger Pigeons in the late 1800s failed because these birds only breed in extremely large groups. So unless they clone about 10,000 of them in one go, there won't be enough of them to prevent re-extinction.

Re:They will be unable to breed

[blind biker]

attempts at preserving the last surviving Passenger Pigeons in the late 1800s failed because these birds only breed in extremely large groups

Mother Nature fucked up, there. Breeding only when in large groups? That's a weak point.

Re:They will be unable to breed

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, that may not be a bad thing if the birds won't reproduce, if the goal is to keep a population in your theme park and not re-introduce them to the wild. However, I did see the movie.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but I've always wanted to taste a dinosaur steak. An extinct pigeon steak--not so much.

Pigeons, of course!

[John Pfeiffer]

Because we don't have enough of THOSE!

Re:Pigeons, of course!

[roc97007]

Read the wiki. You think you don't have enough pigeons... wait until the passenger pigeon starts breeding, with protected status. 3.5 billion (estimated) in one flock observed in 1866.

Re:Pigeons, of course!

[Anonymous Coward]

We wiped them out once. We can wipe them out again if we have to. Doubt we will. Even if they become a problem I doubt they'd become a big enough problem to bother wiping out.

Re:Pigeons, of course!

[roc97007]

Back then, passenger pigeons were wiped out in part because they were being used for food for the indentured masses. I don't see that... happening... again... Wait.

("Soylent green is pigeons!")

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Bobfrankly1]

No problem. What're they going to do, lame you to death?

No, they'll repopulate, and bury the planet in their droppings...

xkcd .. of course..

[willie3204]

http://xkcd.com/155/

My learning from this article...

[roc97007]

...is that "jurassic park" has become a verb.

can't be done!

[djmartins]

No one has cloned a bird yet and people have tried. Don't see this project even getting close to success...

Re:can't be done!

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and it's impossible for a heavier-than-air machine to fly.

AWESOME

[Blymie]

Yes, yes, yes, OH GOD YES!

I've been wanting to eat one of these birds for DECADES! A bird so tasty, we hunted it to extinction!

There are recipes I wanted to try! Pies and stews and just cooked in the oven. They should do a kickstarter, I'd kick in!

African or European Pidgeon?

[twmcneil]

And that's how the coconuts got to Mercea.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Anonymous Coward]

No, they'll repopulate, and bury the planet in their droppings...

Then that will solve the global warm...climate change cause the plants will have a ready source of fertilizer to renew the O2

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[GodfatherofSoul]

I've seen this one on SyFy. The scientists accidentally mix in their DNA with the pigeon DNA and we get a ruthless bird-beast that kills with bird-flu contaminated venom. Starring that guy in that show you used to watch 15 years ago and a hot 22 year old wannabe actress the producer is fucking.

Re:waste of time

[roc97007]

There's medication for that...

Animal Cruelty

[Anonymous Coward]

"Martha, the last living bird, took her place under museum glass in 1914."

Jesus I bet the ASPCA went nuts that day!

Will They Even Behave the Same?

[Koreantoast]

Will these animals even behave the same when they are recreated? After all, animals, like humans, have certain "cultures" where the parents teach their young how to effectively hunt, what to avoid, etc. Recreating an animal won't capture that. At most, they may have the same base instincts driving them, but they may effectively be completely different animals.

Re:Will They Even Behave the Same?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's possible that they could develop a similar culture over several generations, as happens with zebra finches raised without hearing a normal song: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090503132617.htm

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Beorytis]

No problem. What're they going to do, lame you to death?

No, they'll repopulate, and bury the planet in their droppings...

Maybe they will repopulate North America, and in the process apply pressure to reduce numbers of imported, invasive pigeons.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[hawguy]

I've seen this one on SyFy. The scientists accidentally mix in their DNA with the pigeon DNA and we get a ruthless bird-beast that kills with bird-flu contaminated venom. Starring that guy in that show you used to watch 15 years ago and a hot 22 year old wannabe actress the producer is fucking.

I thought you were making that up but I looked it up and the movie is Flu Bird Horror, and I think the guy you're referring to is Lance Guest (aka Alex Rogan from The Last Starfighter)

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[GodfatherofSoul]

Holy shit I WAS making that up!

What Would Brian Boitano Do?

[mr.mctibbs]

I feel like this should be a new verse.

It won't work; they won't reproduce

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the main theories concerning their extinction is that they needed a large, or more-so MASSIVE,
population to effectively mate and reproduce. It was a quirk of evolution that they had such enormous
flocks. Even if you clone a bunch of them, it would fail because:

1. There still wouldn't be enough for them to reproduce.
2. The used to fill the sky. In the meanwhile, mankind has decimated their natural environment.
For the Passenger Pidgeon came back, the domestic Airline business would need to cease. It ain't
gonna happen folks.

I know, I apologize for trying to be serious and bring wisdom and knowledge to Slashdot. How dare I?

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[C0R1D4N]

As long as it isn't Birdemic

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[bcmm]

I feel compelled to point out that pigeons are dinosaurs.

Already done in Australia..

[Anonymous Coward]

with the extinct gastric-brooding frog: http://www.sciencecodex.com/lost_frog_dna_revived_lazarus_project-108676

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[Pseudonym]

You haven't lived until you've tried squab marsala.

Why not choose a nice bird?

[ChrisMaple]

Recreate the Carolina parakeet. The last one was killed by a damn fool ornithologist.

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[zawarski]

Goddamnit! I hate this hacker crap!

That's not really a joke.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

... they'll repopulate, and bury the planet in their droppings...

That's not really a joke.

As I understand it the Passenger Pigeon once cruised the flyways along the eastern part of the US in numbers so great that, during annual migrations, they darkened the sky for days and whitewashed the ground beneath. Their extinction was met more with relief than unhappiness.

That being said, I've always thought reviving this bird would be a good idea. It is reputed to be quite tasty, raising it in captivity should be a snap, and if it does get loose and establish a pest-level wild population, it's ALREADY been wiped out once by human action so we have a proof-of-concept.

Others on my list for revival:

  - Quagga. (Zebras are essentially striped donkeys that are essentially impossible to domesticate. The Quagga is a relative that is EASY to domesticate - and in fact was, until it went extinct because other equines became more popular.)

Dodo: A flightless bird that went extinct very recently because it had evolved on an island, had no fear of people, and had it's "lek" (breeding ground) located right where the military built an airbase during a World War. Big as a domestic turkey but allegedly much more tasty,not prone to panic so easy to handle.

Mammoth: Those went extinct a while back (some populations apparently by human action), but some in Siberia are frozen in permafrost and suitable for extraction of well-preserved DNA. Apparently these were tasty enough that both stone-age Europeans and pre-Columbian American Indians hunted them - on an industrial scale in the case of the Indians.

Re:That's not really a joke.

[dwye]

Dodo: A flightless bird that went extinct very recently because it had evolved on an island, had no fear of people, and had it's "lek" (breeding ground) located right where the military built an airbase during a World War. Big as a domestic turkey but allegedly much more tasty,not prone to panic so easy to handle.

Which world war? The were extinct before the Seven Year's War (aka French And Indian War, in the USA), in fact probably before Queen Anne's War (best guess in supposedly in the 1690s, according to Wikipedia), well before the first airbase, even according to Jane's.

Re:That's not really a joke.

[Bobfrankly1]

Dodo: A flightless bird that went extinct very recently because it had evolved on an island, had no fear of people, and had it's "lek" (breeding ground) located right where the military built an airbase during a World War. Big as a domestic turkey but allegedly much more tasty,not prone to panic so easy to handle.

Which world war? The were extinct before the Seven Year's War (aka French And Indian War, in the USA), in fact probably before Queen Anne's War (best guess in supposedly in the 1690s, according to Wikipedia), well before the first airbase, even according to Jane's.

Dodo: A flightless bird with an extinction date that is often guessed upon by humans who easily qualify to wear the bird's name.

Extinct Pigeon Park?

[sootman]

Better book early -- you don't want to be in the back of what will surely be a very long line.

What about microfauna?

[alleycat0]

It is estimated that bacteria alone (only one component of our microbiome) far outnumber human cells. I'm not totally up on my modern biology, but i suspect that the situation with birds is comparable; could any species be resurrected successfully in the absence of its associated microfauna?

Re:And after the pigeons get loose and take over..

[dwye]

John Connor will teach us how to beat them.

FTFY

Dodo

[Anonymous Coward]

I think dodos next because they are taste

From Wikipedia:

[Anonymous Coward]

"This was a highly gregarious species – the flock could initiate courtship and reproduction only when they were gathered in large numbers; smaller groups of Passenger Pigeons could not breed successfully, and the surviving numbers proved too few to re-establish the species.[22] Attempts at breeding among the captive population also failed for the same reasons. The passenger pigeon was a colonial and gregarious bird practicing communal roosting and communal breeding and needed large numbers for optimum breeding conditions."

Even if a few birds can be created, it looks like a self-sustaining flock would need to be very large for natural breeding to take place.

Your Alive!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now ... hehe ... we're going to it you.

No coincidence

[utrulig]

I AM BEN NOVAC THE RETWEETRRS Is an anagram for: HERBERT WEST REANIMATOR NVC. Wake up People! This cannot be a coincidence!