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Did Large Eyes Lead To Neanderthals' Demise?

Posted by samzenpus on from the all-the-better-to-see-you-with dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Bigger eyes and a corresponding greater allocation of the brain to process visual information is the most recent theory about the reasons that led to the extinction of Neanderthals, our closest relatives. Neanderthals split from the primate line that gave rise to modern humans about 400,000 years ago. This group then moved to Eurasia and completely disappeared from the world about 30,000 years back. Other studies have shown that Neanderthals might have lived near the Arctic Circle around 31,000 to 34,000 years ago."

25 of 139 comments (clear)

  1. Dupe by Any+Web+Loco · · Score: 5, Informative

    Dupe... http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/03/13/1247255/manga-girls-beware-extra-large-eyes-caused-neanderthals-demise

    1. Re:Dupe by Ubi_NL · · Score: 5, Funny

      Seems slashdot editors have very large eyes as well

      --

      If an experiment works, something has gone wrong.
    2. Re:Dupe by Culture20 · · Score: 2

      It's nice to know that the Dice purchase hasn't changed the old /. traditions.

    3. Re:Dupe by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      No. But perhaps if they had stuck around the large eyes would help the Slashdot editors spot their dupes.

      , yes but you are implying that the Neanderthals would do a better job than /. editors (not a hard thing to do obviously), but that means that the Neanderthals would outcompete the /. editors and then would there be a /. in the future, implying that smaller eyes of /. editors caused their demise and the victory for the Neanderthals? Unless of-course the Neanderthals are already running /. and are trying to hide in the open, by pretending not to see the dupes so that we would not think they have big eyes. But then they are only succeeding in turning the attention to their small eyes, so that we would ask these questions and suggest replacing the /. editors with the Neanderthals, but maybe that is what the Neanderthals that are /. editors want you to do.

      Maybe the Neanderthals already own Dice and /. and their next move is to get into your government and to reduce human population with a breading program... This raises the question: what is Peter Joseph hiding under that beard and the glasses?

      --
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    4. Re:Dupe by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Perhaps that is a little closer to reality. Neanderthals included homo sapiens in their dietary regime and homo sapiens where far more effective at mass retaliatory revenge attacks. So the mass homo sapiens opposition to cannibalism could stem from a history of being preyed upon by Neanderthals and their larger war party attacks against those that would kill and eat them.

      --
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    5. Re:Dupe by c0lo · · Score: 2

      The Creature Walks Among Us
      A staring samzenpus as the mongus.

      FTFY

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    6. Re:Dupe by Lotana · · Score: 4, Funny

      Indeed. May as well carry on with other part of the tradition for dupe stories.

      Quick everyone, re-post all the posts that have been modded up in the original story! Here comes free karma!

    7. Re:Dupe by Rogerborg · · Score: 2

      The Slashdot "editors" are a collection of Very Small Shell Scripts, none of which talk to each other.

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    8. Re:Dupe by RMingin · · Score: 2

      Slashdot management, please remove and replace samzenpus.

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    9. Re:Dupe by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

      Predatory mammals are normally territorial, both with their own and competing species eg: Lions and Hyenas, humans and Neanderthals would have fought over the best hunting and foraging ground, although there is some evidence Neanderthals preferred to live in the gullys near running water while humans preferred the high ground, as they still do today (judging by real estate prices). Also it's a natural tendency for humans to see their own tribe as the only "real" humans, for example tribes that live near chimps traditionally considered chimps to be just another funny looking tribe that could be easily dominated, similar behavior can be seen in modern day regions who claim to be the "chosen ones".

      Exactly how we out competed Neanderthals is speculation, there are a million plausible stories but at the end of the day there's no hard evidence that intelligence was the key factor (as this eyeball idea assumes). From history it's plain to see that humans were probably just as ruthless with other human tribes as they were with Neanderthal tribes. Maybe it was as simple as our choice of real estate or something seemingly irrelevant such as possessing sweat glands or small eyes.

      My own guess is that there was no single factor in their demise, they were simply easier to dominate than other human tribes. The American Indian and the Australian Aborigine are modern day examples of what I think happened to the Neanderthals, those races are no less intelligent or ruthless than Europeans, yet both were quickly dominated and came close to being wiped off the planet altogether.

      --
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  2. Correlation vs causality. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Neanderthals died out because they weren't smart enough. In other news, they had big eyes.

    1. Re:Correlation vs causality. by promythyus · · Score: 3, Funny

      Lies. Neanderthals live among us, just take a look at your co-workers.

    2. Re:Correlation vs causality. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 5, Funny

      I thought it was because they didn't know how to brew beer.

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  3. Dupe by rsmith-mac · · Score: 4, Funny

    Did large eyes lead to Neanderthals' Demise?

    No. But perhaps if they had stuck around the large eyes would help the Slashdot editors spot their dupes.

    http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/03/13/1247255/manga-girls-beware-extra-large-eyes-caused-neanderthals-demise

  4. Disappeared? by WillKemp · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Neanderthals didn't disappear. As a distinct culture they "disappeared" from the archaeological record, but that certainly doesn't mean Neanderthals disappeared from existence. A big chunk of the world's population have a significant proportion of Neanderthal genes. You can't say a population went extinct if their descendants are still alive!

    1. Re:Disappeared? by Andtalath · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, the more we learn about bird/dinosaur similarities, the more it seems like dinosaurs aren't extinct.
      The genetics between birds and dinosaurs are very few.

      So, scientifically speaking, saying dinosaurs are extinct isn't entirely correct, or rather, almost meaningless since dinosaur isn't a very well-defined scientific term.

    2. Re:Disappeared? by nospam007 · · Score: 2

      "Are you claiming the neanderthals are simply hiding in the trees?"

      Not necessarily. They have jobs in the Sasquatch, Yeti and Bigfoot tourist industry.

    3. Re:Disappeared? by Miamicanes · · Score: 2

      I don't have time to cite references right now, but one of the more interesting theories I saw involved RH factor (the gene that determines whether you're A+/B+/AB+/O+ or A-/B-/AB-/O-. Apparently, RH-negative women have a MUCH higher chance of dying in childbirth if the baby is RH-positive. Suppose, for a moment, that in the very beginning, Neanderthal women were universally RH-negative, and Homo Sapiens (men and women) moving into Europe from Africa were universally RH-positive.

      Assume that for whatever reason, Human men and women have sex with Neanderthal women and men. As the number of Human-Neanderthal hybrids increased, a RH-negative Neanderthal woman would be spinning the roulette wheel of death every time she gave birth. Even if the baby's father was "Neanderthal", if the mother and father were both RH-negative, but recessive for RH-positive blood, the mother's risk of death would go up. Factor in the nonexistence of birth control and perpetual pregnancy, and a Neanderthal woman's likelihood of living to see her 30th birthday would be pretty grim. At some point, just about any male she could possibly have sex with would be RH+... and if she herself were recessive for RH+, every single child would be a round of Russian Roulette for her.

      Net result: Neanderthals were quickly, within a few generations, wiped out as a distinct group, but not before their genes had firmly entrenched themselves in the pool. If RH factor is a significant marker for Neanderthal genes, one might even expect to see the percentage INCREASE going forward, since RH-discordant mothers rarely die in childbirth anymore.

  5. big eyes by charlesr44403 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Horses have huge eyes and aren't going extinct any time soon.

    1. Re:big eyes by flyingfsck · · Score: 4, Funny

      I dunno, the Europeans are eating the remaining horses at an alarming rate. I guess they taste like chicken.

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  6. Re:Night vision, arctic circle by JasterBobaMereel · · Score: 2

    Inuit are generally considered to be northern Asians who crossed into North America in quite recent times ...They are not particularly distinct genetically ...

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  7. Re:Obligatory Dupe by roman_mir · · Score: 2

    Well, you think the Neanderthals have such discriminating exquisite taste that they would be able to tell the difference between cookies baked with Girl Scouts rather than with, let's say US Congressmen?

    I hope the Neanderthals go for the Congressmen first and leave the Girl Scouts for dessert.

    --
    You can't handle the truth.
  8. Do the editors even *read* Slashdot? by tibit · · Score: 2

    It feels to me like the editors never actually look at the site, and they have such short memory that they become useless as editors.

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  9. Send samzenpus back for more training please by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I rarely comment on /. innner workings but honestly, samzenpus needs some retraining. Last night it was the 'microsoft killing windows phone' fantasy headline.. now an obvious dupe.. among quite a few others of recent vintage.

  10. Eloi and Morlocks by tepples · · Score: 2

    unless the Neanderthals want to bake bread and cookies out of humans.

    That depends on what happens over the next 800 millennia.