Gov't Report: Laser Pointers Produce Too Much Energy, Pose Risk For the Careless

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Gov't Report: Laser Pointers Produce Too Much Energy, Pose Risk For the Careless

Posted by Soulskill on Wednesday March 20, 2013 @08:55AM from the isn't-that-half-the-fun dept.

coondoggie writes "Commercial grade green and red laser pointers emit energy far beyond what is safe, posing skin, eye and fire hazards. That was the conclusion of a National Institute of Standards and Technology study on the properties of handheld lasers. The study tested 122 of the devices and found that nearly 90% of green pointers and about 44% of red pointers tested were out of federal safety regulation compliance."

28 of 260 comments (clear)

nice link by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 09:00 · Score: 5, Informative

You have to login to read the article. No thanks.
So then... by gman003 · 2013-03-20 09:00 · Score: 4, Funny

"The study tested 122 of the devices and found that nearly 90% of green pointers and about 44% of red pointers tested were out of federal safety regulation compliance."
So blue lasers are safe then?
1. Re:So then... by aurispector · 2013-03-20 09:02 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  It's why we can't have nice things. Idiots point lasers at aircraft blinding the pilots and the .gov bans them. Nobody has any common sense.
  
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  I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
2. Re:So then... by DeadCatX2 · 2013-03-20 09:15 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  I saw this article earlier and it's a bit misleading. Buried much more deeply...
  
  The NIST tests were conducted on randomly selected commercial laser devices labeled as Class IIIa or 3R and sold as suitable for demonstration use in classrooms and other public spaces
  That whole "Class IIIa/3R" thing is a pretty big deal. Lasers of this class are pretty heavily regulated because of the danger they can potentially pose. The color of the laser is almost unimportant, except for the minor detail of how green lasers are generated by dividing infrared light in half, which makes them subject to a bit more regulation since infrared is not a visible emission; invisible emissions are more strictly regulated, since there's no blink reflex to save your eyes.
  I wonder what percentage of commercial laser pointers are Class IIIa/3R?
  For the record, I did some research on lasers, because we were going to incorporate one into one of our products...until we learned how heavily regulated they are, and went with a diode that pumps out like 50x as much wattage, but doesn't fall under regulations since the emissions aren't coherent. Throughout my research, I learned that no one - literally, no one - has ever reported being injured by a Class IIIa/3R laser. The danger posed by these emissions is more theoretical than practice.
  
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3. Re:So then... by DeadCatX2 · 2013-03-20 09:19 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Have governments have banned you from driving? Because the government regulates who can and cannot drive, in the form of a driver's license. They also regulate how fast you can travel on the road.
  Have governments banned you from drinking? Because government regulates who can and cannot buy alcohol.
  
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  :(){ :|:& };:
4. Re:So then... by X0563511 · 2013-03-20 09:22 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Not really.
  What this study finds is that most laser pointers outright violate safety regulations that already exist.
  
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  For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
5. Re:So then... by AK+Marc · 2013-03-20 09:38 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I had a colleague at work who tried to impress me with his tech ability and ability to buy toys. One such example was his laser pointer. He "overclocked" it and bragged about it and how bright it was now. It could burn things and all that. Generally, if it can burn paper, your blink reflex is not sufficient to prevent blindness. Also, there's some level at which a reflection (even a low powered one, like a partial reflection from glass) coulr cause blindness without prolonged use. I informed him that I did not wish to see his toy, and if he intended to bring it to work, to let me know the day before so I could remain home for my own safety. He was greatly pissed off about that. He wanted to show it off, but I'd rather not go blind from some prick who doesn't know what he's doing shining it at me, or a reflective surface near me.
  
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  Learn to love Alaska
6. Re:So then... by DeadCatX2 · 2013-03-20 09:52 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Any random person above the age of 16 can acquire a driver's license. There is no restriction, other than age.
  Any random person above the age of 21 can purchase alcohol. There is no restriction, other than age.
  Those statements are not true when it comes to controlled substances. The Controlled Substances Act effectively bans all Schedule I drugs for any purpose. Even people who would otherwise be allowed to manufacture, purchase, or consume Schedule I drugs (i.e. medical marijuana) are in violation of the federal law.
  Now, is the CSA a regulation? Yes. All bans are a regulation, but not all regulations are a ban. This concept is easy to understand in terms of "all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares". Why is it so difficult when it comes to government regulations?
  
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7. Re:So then... by FrankSchwab · 2013-03-20 09:54 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  And how, precisely, would "polarized glasses" stop laser light?
  Insightful, indeed.
  
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  And the worms ate into his brain.
8. Re:So then... by Ignacio · 2013-03-20 10:25 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  A pair of filters with polarization aligned at right angles to each other will block over 99% of the laser light when placed in front of each other.
9. Re:So then... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 11:41 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  As someone who has worked extensivly with class IIIb/IV lasers in the past (I was even licensed by the state of New York to do so) you can think of laser safety in this way:
  Class i: Stare in to the beam until the end of time, no issues gaurenteed,
  Class II: Stare in to the beam until the end of time, you might have some issues but probably not permanent,
  Class IIIa: Your aversion reaction is fast enough for you to escape permanent damage.
  Class IIIb/IV: You're fucked.
  They did tests on animal eyes and eyes of people who were going to have them removed. They tested different power level until 50% of tests had damage then divided the power level by ten for the safety rating. So long as you're not an idiot (that's a stretch for most people) and you don't get your hands on some real class IIIb/IV toys you're probably not in any danger.
  That being said, don't screw around with UV lasers. UV exposure is cumulative and you will get cataracts when you hit your individual exposure limit.
At least the moon is safe of those careless people by Anon,+Not+Coward+D · 2013-03-20 09:02 · Score: 5, Interesting

Obligatory xkcd http://what-if.xkcd.com/13/

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Sometimes it's better not having signature
A lobbying group composed of house cats said... by Steauengeglase · 2013-03-20 09:05 · Score: 5, Funny

"We need more testing in this field, particularly on that white wall over there."
Re:How else... by Beardo+the+Bearded · 2013-03-20 09:17 · Score: 5, Funny

are we supposed to fight the sharks?
Just claim to be a member of the NRA and any attempt by the gummint to lower power is infringing your 2nd amendment rights.
It's the NLA, the National LASER Association, and we do have a serious lobbying effort underway.
If the founding fathers had had lasers, then they'd have done fine without France's support.

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ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
Life is unsafe by jxander · 2013-03-20 09:19 · Score: 3, Insightful

In a similar report, we've found that 100% of lighters, knives, crampons and Official Red Ryder Carbine-Action Two-Hundred-Shot Range Model Air Rifles are outside tolerable limits for safety.
Seriously, you'll shoot your eye out, kid.

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This signature is false.
1. Re:Life is unsafe by Trogre · 2013-03-20 16:10 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Hell no. These are not like knives.
  These laser pointers are much more dangerous that you might think. Sweep a 120mW laser across the eyes of a room full of people at 10 feet and you've just permanently damaged their retinas before anyone could blink.
  Used with care, they can be crazy awesome fun and I have several, but I treat them as munitions and keep them well locked away because I'm aware of exactly what damage they can do.
  You seriously do not want these in the hands of yobbos who will wave them in the eyes of the first child they see saying, "Look, lightsaber!"
  
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  "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Oh, we can do something about THAT? by Greyfox · 2013-03-20 09:26 · Score: 5, Insightful

One retarded kid swallows a magnet, and they can ban buckyballs. A pilot or something might get blinded at some point in the future and we can ban laser pointer sales. 30,000 people a year die from gun violence and we can't even pass universal fucking background checks?
No. Fuck this shit. I move that every citizen of the USA shall receive from the government one glock 9 mm pistol, one box of hollow point ammunition, one multi-watt laser pointer, one... no, make that TWO extremely fucking dangerous magnets, and a big fucking bucket of fireworks, to do with as they please. In one year, the survivors can get together and discuss additional regulation. :-/

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I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
1. Re:Oh, we can do something about THAT? by Nadaka · 2013-03-20 09:34 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Throw in a gallon of jeagermeister, and a 3 wheeler ATV and you have my vote! ;)
It's not a ban. by pavon · 2013-03-20 09:27 · Score: 5, Insightful

The government regulators have no desire to prevent you from buying or selling higher power lasers. They do care when you lie to your customers and tell them the lasers are less dangerous than they actually are. They care when you use shoddy manufacturing that allows harmful IR to escape the casing, while again telling the customer that they are completely shielded against this. If these lasers worked as advertized, then there wouldn't be a problem. Alternately if they were sold as class 3B devices (which is what they effectively are) there would be no problem, as the purchasers would know the risks and could plan accordingly. But they weren't and the manufacturers/importers should be held responsible for their recklessness.
Re:How else... by cayenne8 · 2013-03-20 09:46 · Score: 4, Insightful

Just claim to be a member of the NRA and any attempt by the gummint to lower power is infringing your 2nd amendment rights.
Not so much that...as that it seems the govt. figures we are all fucking idiots that can't be trusted with our own judgment to use anything more dangerous than a butter knife, or maybe those rounded edge scissors we all got in first grade.
I sure miss lawn darts and clackers and....

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Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Re:How else... by nugatory78 · 2013-03-20 09:57 · Score: 5, Insightful

it seems the govt. figures we are all fucking idiots that can't be trusted with our own judgment to use anything more dangerous than a butter knife, or maybe those rounded edge scissors we all got in first grade
I think thats pretty accurate for how a very large number of people in the country should be treated. I definitely don't want a lot of people I know with a commercial laser, as I do like my eyesight. I have a 500 lumen flashlight (its really really bright in a tightly focused beam) and the number of people I told "don't point it at your face because its incredibly bright", that did exactly that is astounding. When I asked why? their response was its only a flashlight... I've seen several people do that with lasers too. Not to mention that is the governments targeted mentality with their current form of "education".

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The beginning of knowledge is the discovery of something we do not understand. - Frank Herbert
Re: I'd rather not go blind by DocSavage64109 · 2013-03-20 09:58 · Score: 4, Interesting

Your apprehension reminds me of this article: Russian concert laser show blinds 30
Re:How else... by ackthpt · 2013-03-20 11:25 · Score: 3, Interesting

are we supposed to fight the sharks?
Just claim to be a member of the NRA and any attempt by the gummint to lower power is infringing your 2nd amendment rights.
It's the NLA, the National LASER Association, and we do have a serious lobbying effort underway.
If the founding fathers had had lasers, then they'd have done fine without France's support.
We of the NRGA (National Rail Gun Association) salute you.
I'll see your 30 round clip and raise you 10 pounds of 10 penny finishing nails.

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A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
XKCD On 1W Lasers by Anonymous Coward · 2013-03-20 12:24 · Score: 3, Funny

From XKCD What-If #13:

A 1-watt laser is an extremely dangerous thing. It’s not just powerful enough to blind you—it’s capable of burning skin and setting things on fire. Obviously, they’re not legal for consumer purchase in the US.
Just kidding! You can pick one up for $300.
Re:How else... by DNS-and-BIND · 2013-03-20 12:29 · Score: 3, Insightful

Ah, in favor of tyranny - what a surprise. You'll be glad to know you're not alone - intellectuals have been speaking the same words as you, but calling it Coercive Paternalism instead so it sounds good.
"In this book, Sarah Conly rejects the idea of autonomy as inviolable. Thus in many cases it would advance our goals more effectively if government were to prevent us from acting in accordance with our decisions. Her argument challenges widely held views of moral agency, democratic values and the public/private distinction, and will interest readers in ethics, political philosophy, political theory and philosophy of law."
No more freedom because we might make choices that Sarah Conly disagrees with. What was that bit in George Orwell's seminal tract on tyranny, Animal Farm?
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"

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Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Re:How else... by serbanp · 2013-03-20 14:40 · Score: 3, Informative

it's actually quite useful for pointing out stars and dark sky features.
Re:How else... by MasaMuneCyrus · 2013-03-20 17:56 · Score: 4, Interesting

I'm not a big fan of guns being easily available to all, but in my opinion guns have more practical/reasonable uses than high powered handheld lasers.
Yes you can use those lasers to point at stuff in the sky. And get yourself in big trouble if an aircraft happens to be in the area. I say use a lighted extendable stick instead.
With guns, you can't shoot continuously for minutes. With lasers you can. If you pick the right scenario (everyone looking at the same area) you can blind a lot of people.
Couldn't a high powered laser be used as a defensive device? If someone tries to rob you, you could blind them, perhaps irreparably. Though a bit macabre, in many cases that might be a better option than simply killing them with a gun (let it be known, though, that if someone broke into my house and I had a laser and a gun... I'd grab the gun).
Re:How else... by Joce640k · 2013-03-20 21:59 · Score: 3, Insightful

I bought an overpowered green laser "pointer"
I didn't.
My experience with other people and normal-powered lasers means I wouldn't trust anybody else to have it within a mile of other people's eyes. Constantly having to tell people "no" and "because you're an idiot, that's why" isn't worth it.

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No sig today...