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Wrong Fuel Chokes Presidential Limo

An anonymous reader writes "Fueling your car with the wrong type of fuel happens even to POTUS. This happens when you put gasoline instead of diesel in the tank. ...." And Yes, the presidential limo really is a diesel. What about clean, renewable solar?

37 of 612 comments (clear)

  1. Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    The link is to a story which says the correct fuel was used.

    1. Re:Um... by X0563511 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, the story says the Secret Service says the correct fuel was used... but an Israeli official is adamant that it was the incorrect fuel... and as the second link helps establish for you that it's known the limos are diesel...

      "The correct gas was used." - diesel is not gas!

      --
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    2. Re:Um... by godrik · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I found it interesting to see that because of bad previous experience, Americans have a huge biais against diesel which is common in Europe. Meanwhile, because of bad previous experience, European have a huge biais against automatic gear shifting which is common in the US.

      I guess everybody is just as biased :)

    3. Re:Um... by madhatter256 · · Score: 5, Funny

      The reason automatics rule in the US is because no one has time to use a manual. We are all busy texting, talking on the phone, eating, watching movies and sleeping. Sometimes, a few of those things at the same time... We only have two hands a knee to drive with!

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    4. Re:Um... by Stargoat · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am an American. I've got a diesel VW Jetta Sportwagen with about 50,000 miles. I'm getting about 44 MPG (combined city highway) during the summer, about 39 during the winter. I do not have large batteries that will need to be recycled or tossed into a landfill next year. My pollutants spewed per mile are lower than a petrol engine.

      I previously had a Hyundai Elantra (a petrol car that is not bad on fuel consumption). When I bought the new diesel, my fuel bill dropped almost in half.

      The pickup on my diesel is good. Very nice torque. I did make sure to put a nice bright yellow sticker on the outside of my gas tank cover stating Diesel Only. There's another provided by VW on the inside.

      I would strongly recommend anyone to buy a diesel. They are great cars.

      --
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    5. Re:Um... by Peristaltic · · Score: 3, Funny

      #TIMMAH!

    6. Re:Um... by rherbert · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I doubt you're really an American if you use the word "petrol."

    7. Re:Um... by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Because our NANNY GOVERNMENT has rigged the emissions and mileage games so that the only cars sitting in dealer lots are enormous gasoline guzzling full size trucks.

      Not only that, Americans love having high torque at low engine revolutions, something gasoline engines are bad at but where diesel excels.

      That's why all those trucks have 5-liter V8s in them where they should have a 2.5 liter TDi.

      It's doubleplus-lose.

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    8. Re:Um... by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The reason automatics rule in the US is because no one has time to use a manual. We are all busy texting, talking on the phone, eating, watching movies and sleeping. Sometimes, a few of those things at the same time... We only have two hands a knee to drive with!

      Okay, you get funny points, but in case anyone takes you seriously, automatic transmissions pretty much became the norm in the U.S. in the 1950s and from your list only eating and sleeping were available in the car.

      --
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    9. Re:Um... by biek · · Score: 3, Funny

      Okay, you get funny points, but in case anyone takes you seriously, automatic transmissions pretty much became the norm in the U.S. in the 1950s and from your list only eating and sleeping were available in the car.

      Don't forget drinking!

    10. Re:Um... by OakDragon · · Score: 4, Funny

      The reason automatics rule in the US is because no one has time to use a manual. We are all busy texting, talking on the phone, eating, watching movies and sleeping. Sometimes, a few of those things at the same time... We only have two hands a knee to drive with!

      Now that I've done enough eating in my car, I can also use my tummy to steer!

    11. Re:Um... by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Funny

      1950s ... only eating and sleeping were available in the car

      Is that what you think couples did in drive-ins? Ok, this is Slashdot.

    12. Re:Um... by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Funny

      Canadian ... we're basically the 51st state anyway

      Puerto Rico recently voted to become the 51st, but you can become 52 if you promise to learn how to say "about".

    13. Re:Um... by markus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Have you actually driven a car with a modern Diesel engine?

      I had a Diesel rental about 20 years ago, and was impressed how little difference there was to a gasoline engine. But yes, you are right, back then Diesels did lack some of the "oomph" that I had come to expect from a high-powered gasoline engine.

      In the last couple of years though, Diesel engines have gotten so good, there really is no reason whatsoever to buy a gasoline engine -- unless of course, you drive an incredibly small number of miles, in which case fuel efficiency doesn't matter and the slightly higher cost for the Diesel engine does.

      Other than that, modern Diesels drive just like gasoline cars, are a lot more fuel efficient, and are extremely clean. I have read (slightly tongue in cheek) research saying that tail pipe emissions tend to be cleaner than the intake air :-) It's pretty much just CO2 and water.

    14. Re:Um... by Runaway1956 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Old truck driver here. Drivers use "fuel" in their trucks. Motorists use "gas". Brits use "petrol". Maybe you should get to know some truck drivers. Like rherbert, I've never heard an American use the term "petrol". Not on the east coast, not on the west coast, and nowhere in between. The only person in recent memory to use the word, is an imported guy from England. We mostly keep him around to laugh at. When his jokes run out, his accent is still hilarious.

      --
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    15. Re:Um... by Brooklynoid · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, watching movies in a car was a very common activity in the 1950's. Just not when the car was moving. There used to be these things called "drive-in movie theaters."

    16. Re:Um... by weiserfireman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Part of the reason for the US bias against diesel is the fuel taxes.

      The US Government, and the States, have huge fuel taxes on diesel because "those big trucks do more damage to the roads". That could very well be true. But in my region, because of those taxes, diesel has been more expensive than gasoline for a long long time.

      Most of our refineries have been modified to produce more gasoline than diesel now. If we were to switch the buying habits, they would have be be changed back.

    17. Re:Um... by Per+Wigren · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What markus said. My car (European 2012 Honda Civic, not to be mixed up with the quite different American 2012 Honda Civic) has a 150hp/350nm diesel engine and does 0-60 MPH in 8.3 seconds (with about 50 MPG on the highway and 40 MPG in town). It's not sports car performance of course but the oomph is very much comparable to non-sports car gasoline engines. Also, the turbo is almost completely seamless.

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    18. Re:Um... by BitZtream · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Well, his statement is also factually incorrect.

      No diesel truck driver pays what you see on the pump price for diesel.

      They are all part of fleets and pay, in general, about half what you see at the pump as the diesel price.

      Pump prices are high for diesel because people started switching to diesel to save money due to is increased milage. 30 years ago, in the 80s, after all that shit that happened in the 70s, you could be diesel at half the price of gasoline. And manufacters started producing more diesel cars ... and people bought them like made ... and within a few short years, the price per MILE (not gallon) for diesel and gasoline became almost perfectly aligned.

      Again, truckers don't pay that much for diesel. Just a couple years ago I was doing a delivery route to help out some friends and they had a commercial account with a local fueler ... it was on my route, but about 1 mile off the main roads in an industrial complex (which of course has much trucking and no normal consumers) and the price per gallon there was less than 75% of the cost of gasoline. It would have actually been cheaper, but it was partial bio-diesel, so you pay extra to be another one of the ignorant trendy fucks who think corn makes a good fuel source.

      The price of gasoline AND diesel is artificially inflated by the OPEC oil cartel. They charge the absolute most you will pay for it, and thats why diesel at the pump costs more.

      Taxes are NOT the issue.

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    19. Re:Um... by BLKMGK · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You do realize that until recently automatic transmissions ate up significant amount of power\MPG right? How is that significantly better exactly? Anyone who has driven a stick for any length of time isn't flailing around - I'm guessing you're one of the fools who can't do so. It's got nothing to do with image and quite a bit more to do with control. The best "DSG" type automatics are actually stick shifts run by a computer - complete with one or more clutches. Stick shift transmissions are often capable of withstanding far more torque than automatics and they are most certainly a simpler piece of hardware. Not burning out the clutch in a heavy vehicle with a stick is simply a matter of knowing WTF you're doing and having proper gear range available. You should maybe take a gander in a few 18 wheeler cabs or dump trucks to figure out just how wrong you are, perhaps you think pickups are pulling more weight? The automatic is starting to make inroads there too but manuals are most certainly capable of moving those vehicles without issue...

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      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    20. Re:Um... by BLKMGK · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think maybe you ought to tell the railroad industry of your theories and see what they have to say about the futility of electric for towing....

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      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
    21. Re:Um... by Brickwall · · Score: 3, Informative

      As any Canadian knows, you can get most cars out of the snow if they have a manual tranny. Automatics just spin the wheels. But the real reason automatics became popular was commuting. Standards are fine for driving in the country or on the highway - on a twisty, hilly road, the standard can actually be more fun. But sitting in traffic jams, constantly playing with the clutch vs. just easing your foot off the brake becomes wearing when you have to do it for an hour or so.

      --
      What was once true, is no longer so
    22. Re:Um... by green1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm Canadian, I drive a diesel. It starts unassisted down to ridiculously cold temperatures (hasn't failed me yet) in fact it will start when neither my gasoline powered work truck, nor my wife's gasoline powered compact car will.

      People who think diesels don't start in the cold either have never used one, or have never bothered to maintain the one they had. If spark plugs burn out, people change them. if glow plugs burn out people complain about how hard it is to start a diesel engine (hint, even without the glow plugs, it will still start eventually, love you to say the same for a gasoline vehicle without working spark plugs!)

    23. Re:Um... by xaxa · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well if you live in a big city, you are probably familiar with seeing boots on vehicles when you don't pay the parking tickets.

      That means something else here.

      UK - US vehicle terms
      Car - Auto[mobile]? (is "auto" old-fashioned?)
      Lorry - Truck
      Campervan - Motorhome
      Pavement - Sidewalk
      Car park - Parking lot
      Petrol station (or filling station, service station) - Gas station
      Railway - Railroad
      Tram - Streetcar
      Bogie - Truck
      [Railway] Truck - [Rail] Wagon
      Metro / underground [train] - Subway [train]

      Boot - Trunk
      Bonnet - Hood
      Wheel clamp - Boot
      Bumper - Fender
      Windscreen - Windshield
      Tyre - Tire

      I'm sure I could think of more, but that'll do...

  2. Happened to me by jfdavis668 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Ran into this a couple of times in the Army before we eliminated all gasoline vehicles. Not fun.

  3. So, uh... by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why aren't diesel spouts square?

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    1. Re:So, uh... by FatAlb3rt · · Score: 3, Informative

      They're bigger than gasoline spouts. So you can't put diesel in your gasser, but you can put gas in your diesel.

    2. Re:So, uh... by dywolf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually it's the reverse.

      Diesel engines actually have the broader range of fuels that can be used. Generally, as long as the engine can generate enough pressure to achieve ignition via compression heating, the fuel can be used. Putting gas in isnt actually bad for the engine; it simply lacks the ability to achieve combustion via compression pressures usually found in automotive diesel motors. Gasoline is actually "designed", so to speak, to not combust due to compression, for reasons stated below. so its not harmful, it just simply doesnt run with much power, if at all.

      Technically gasoline engines can theoretically use diesel or other fuels if its volatile enough, and the proper air/fuel mixture can be achieved, but the risk is that the fuel is combusted early. ie, not by the spark plug, but the compression cycle itself before the timing cycle can light the sparkplug, which causes engine knock, power loss, and can destroy the engine cylinder eventually. So while the fuel achieves ignition, its not desireable ignition. which is why refined gasoline was developed to have a really really high heat of compression so that it wouldnt combust intil its supposed to.

      "Diesel fuel" is actually simpler to produce than gasoline as well, requiring less refinement. Big marine diesels use fuel that is essentially almost basic crude. the major disadvantage is that being less refined the fuel is more prone to gelling in cold temperatures (more viscous components in the molecules).

      --
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    3. Re:So, uh... by BLKMGK · · Score: 3, Informative

      WHOA! Gasoline will ignite due to compression at far LOWER ratios than what is produced in an automotive diesel engine! What do you think knock is?! It's autoignition occurring too soon. This is what occurs when the octane rating is too low - high octane gas is for higher cylinder pressure engines and actually is HARDER to ignite. Pump grade gas ignites fairly easily.

      A diesel engine may have a 15:1 or higher compression ratio, gasoline auto engines seldom go above 12:1 unless they're running Nitro or pure Meth alcohol. Passenger gasoline engines run 11:1 or so tops.

      Gasoline in a diesel engine is BAD news. It will ignite from the compression very early in the compression cycle while the piston is still rising and beat the crap out of the ring lands and bearings. I disagree that gasoline isn't volatile enough to ignite, it's TOO volatile! Your first paragraph gets it wrong, the rest I agree with - you appear to contradict yourself.

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      Build it, Drive it, Improve it! Hybridz.org
  4. Solar? by Tridus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The presidential limo is much heavier than a standard limo due to the extra protection it offers. There isn't enough room on the thing to get enough solar power to move it anywhere, let alone a detail like wanting to move it at night. Adding enough batteries to provide reasonable drive time would mean making it even bigger.

    There are some problems that solar can't solve. You'd think an editor here would know that.

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    1. Re:Solar? by geekoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "The editor was being witty."

      No, no he wasn't. It was neither quick nor inventive. It was boring, predictable and obvious.

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  5. Not so. by jewens · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know I'm breaking the convention of reading before posting, however to quote TFA "the mechanical problem had nothing to do with the type of fuel used, as first reported."

    --
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  6. Non-story by StuartHankins · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The first link says it wasn't the wrong fuel. The second link says they speculate it's diesel. WTF people, can't you read?

  7. Sigh by ledow · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Given that that's possibly the shortest Slashdot story ever, it manages to make only two assertions, both of which are confirmed as false (by the linked articles themselves, no less).

    And I heard about this story about 6 hours ago on my way in to work and, honestly, didn't care then.

    No longer "News for Nerds"
    Now "Inaccurate insights for imbeciles".

  8. Re:herp derp trolling for more pageviews! by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Better for the environment but not better for people. Diesel exhaust causes asthma.

    As it turns out, gasoline vehicles emit plenty of soot, and the soot they release is more dangerous because it is finer. The finer soot is more difficult to expel from the lungs. If you can blame asthma on transportation fuel, it's gasoline exhaust causing it. We burn more of it (on the roads, that is) and more of it is burned in poorly regulated vehicles, and finally the soot that is produced is more hazardous. Further, since gasoline is more volatile than diesel fuel, when it is sprayed into the atmosphere unburned (as all vehicles tend to do shortly after start) it is more hazardous then as well.

    Signed,
    Asthmatic owner of two indirectly-injected diesels, whose asthma is readily activated by gasoline vehicles, but not by diesels, as repeatedly demonstrated when I have to move my lady's Astro and one of my diesels around on the same morning.

    --
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  9. Re:Diesel? by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Here's sort of an abstract that points to another report.

    http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/08/real_world_emp_effects_on_moto.html

    It is not true that cars are completely immune, but most vehicles (90%) only show minor anomalous behavior like blinking indicators, and when the cars do stall, they can be restarted immediately.

    This could cause accidents, of course, but won't paralyze land transport.

  10. Good reasons not to by CdBee · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm European. I spent 11 years driving Diesels. Now I'm back in a petrol / gasoline vehicle and intending to convert it to run on LPG autogas. My reasons? Modern diesel engines.

    the 3 diesel cars I ran all had one thing in common - the same 90-horsepower 1753cc Ford 8-valve diesel turbo engine. It was ludicrously simple, noisy, rough-running, but produced LOTS of torque at fairly low revs and in a fairly narrow band when the turbocharger was online and in full boost had a fairly impressive ability to sprint.. it required lots of gear changes but could keep up with fast-accelerating traffic. Oil changes were at 10,000 mile intervals and only required 5w30 semi-synthetic, which is cheap. Engine life was 200,000 miles.

    When my last one died of extreme old age I started looking around and found that all the replacement vehicles available at my price point and feature requirements had dual-mass flywheels, high-pressure / commonrail fuel injection, variable geometry turbochargers - and seriously reduced life expectancy. The 1990s cars I owned were designed for simplicity, reliability and economy (45 miles per UK gallon average efficiency, 55+mpg on longer runs). Their replaements were designed as drop-in replacements for petrol drivers with comparable performance, and the compromises and complexity required to give that extra urgency had a bad effect on the long term reliability and costs. My 2-litre 2001-model Volvo V40 is screamingly insane in performance comparisons, and probably far more reliable. Unlike the new diesels it will probably also last 180,000 miles. And with the LPG conversion will be cheaper to run than a diesel.

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