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The ATF Not Concerned About 3D Printed Guns... Yet
derekmead writes "3D-printing gun parts has taken off, thanks to the likes of Cody Wilson and Defense Distributed. While the technology adds a rather interesting wrinkle to the gun control debate, the ATF currently is pretty hands-off, ... 'We are aware of all the 3D printing of firearms and have been tracking it for quite a while,' Earl Woodham, spokesperson for the ATF field office in Charlotte, said. 'Our firearms technology people have looked at it, and we have not yet seen a consistently reliable firearm made with 3D printing.' A reporter called the ATF's Washington headquarters to get a better idea of what it took to make a gun 'consistently reliable,' and program manager George Semonick said the guns should be 'made to last years or generations.' In other words, because 3D-printed guns aren't yet as durable as their metal counterparts, the ATF doesn't yet consider them as much of a concern."
Where ATF is missing the mark is that these printed guns are already good enough for the planned murder or bank hold up, hijacking, etc, where getting off one or two rounds is all the perp is interested in. In other words, one could make the argument that untraceable guns are more likely to be used in a crime than a traceable one.
Or one could make the argument that I watch too much TV.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
There is no actual 3d-printing of guns, yet. What people are doing is 3d-printing one part of the gun (the receiver) whose serial number is tracked for gun-registration purposes. For the purposes of those laws, the receiver "is" the gun: ordering a receiver is controlled, but ordering any combination of parts without a receiver is not. But that is pretty obviously a legal fiction (perhaps an unwise legal fiction): it is, by far, not the hardest part of the gun to manufacture. In fact, 3d printing hasn't really changed the game here, because CNC machines have been able to fabricate that part for years already. Sure, now it can also be done on a 3d printer, which just adds one more way to manufacture it.
From a technological perspective, what would be impressive is if a complete gun could be 3d printed, including the critical parts involved in actual firing. Then you could legitimately say you have "3d printed a gun".
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
How hard would it be to pass a 3D printed gun through a metal detector? How hard would it be to make ceramic bullets to be fired from those guns?
Well, there's still the matter of the metal barrel, the metal firing pin, the metal springs. The only thing so far that has been 3D printed is a plastic frame. That is why the ATF is not concerned at the moment.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
It's already legal to make a firearm for your own personal use, as long as you're not selling them. Also, it's not like you can print barrels and trigger groups and stuff. There's a lot more involved than just the parts that a 3D printer can print.
It's easier to make a gun from only plumbing parts than to fit the metal parts to a 3D printed receiver. The plastic grip does nothing but make it look nicer. Heck, a fireworks mortar loaded with a rock could kill you and those are made of PAPER, so you really don't even need plumbing pieces - you can make a gun from a newspaper. (Indeed, a paper mortar better matches the military definition of "gun" than does a semi-automatic.) 3D printing changes nothing - weapons have been easy to make since bronze was invented
To look at it another way, CNC had the exact same effect - someone with a $5,000 tool could make a more professional looking weapon. Before that, metal lathes made weapon fabrication easier. Same with a dozen other tools. Why did we not hear this fear mongering about home CNC machines, or lathes, or forges, for that matter? Because until the least few decades most people had the basic tools of self defense as a matter of course. Yeah, anyone could make a gun in 1950, or 1900, but why bother? Just buy one at Sears. What's changed is the sissification of the culture. The technology makes no difference. The difference is that today we have a bunch of wussy girlie men who've never so much as held a pistol, and are afraid of what they are unfamiliar with.
Why ceramic? Plastic and rubber bullets are deadly at close range. There are youtube videos of people making hot-glue bullets for primer fired target practice. Put some powder behind it and it becomes pretty serious. Why not make a plastic shotgun type shell? Very little metal actually needed...primer...not much else. You can even buy shotgun shells that are plastic except for the primer (although I have never seen them other than target load)
Springs can be plastic (or even air pressure enhanced) if they only need to function a couple rounds, same with a plastic firing pin... The more plastic the less life though. A determined well equipped individual, the person that the ATF is worried about, will make it work.
The reason the ATF is not very concerned is the weapon is disposable. Disposable weapons exist. Making a pipe gun from some plumbing parts is not very difficult. I've seen one demonstrated.
Making a plastic weapon that can pass detection is disturbingly easy. Toothbrush? Stick? Point the end. Pen or pencil? No modification required with a pen or pencil. Pretty single use though.
Lastly the evidence is easily destroyed, unlike a metal weapon. The ATF is not very concerned because it would be chasing their tail to try to track these items.
Phil
Laugh, it's good for you!
The right to a handheld explosive-powered projectile launcher is not a "natural" right, but the right to self-defense certainly is.
The concept of "natural" rights is a nonsense, but this right is something required for lasting freedom, at least without a thorough rethinking of how our society works. And that's a not new concept: for example, the original Sikh gurus realised the need, and disallowed their worshipper to go around without a sword. The gurus failed to envision the need for an upgrade clause, and worshippers follow the letter rather than the spirit, especially to comply with oppressive governments like, say, in the UK where they wear toys instead of functional weapons, but you can't deny the gurus' wisdom, in requiring people to have both the means and commandments to use weapons when needed.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Your right to a handheld explosive-powered projectile launcher is not natural.
It is a right, but it does not come directly from being a human.
Sure it does. Human beings have been possessing the cutting edge weaponry of the day since the very first Homo sapiens picked up a rock and bashed in his neighbors head. Possession of weaponry is the quintessential natural law right. It can't even effectively be taken away in highly controlled environments, just ask the poor SOB who just got shanked in the prison shower.
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
As a regular reader and frequent poster, I almost always have moderator points (frequently 15 at a time) and do the "neighborly" thing of keeping all posts in full view to watch for moderator abuse, as slashdot requests. However, if posts like this continue I'll just go back to what I usually do (-1 hidden)
Can we please add a content filter for quick detection and (non-automatic) removal of these posts? Given that he frequently posts just the same crap over and over again, I think it should be pretty easy to set up a heuristic system that would allow an admin to easily spot and nuke these, followed by IP bans.
Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
You still have to:
1) Own a 3D printer of sufficient quality to make a workable part.
2) Buy all the business parts of the gun. The barrel, bolt, bolt carrier, firing pin, buffer, gas tube, trigger and assembly, fire selector, hammer, etc, etc,.
3) Assemble said gun from scratch.
You CANNOT print a whole gun and will NEVER be able to unless we get metal 3D printers that can make high strength parts. An AR-15 barrel and chamber must survive peak forces of 63,000 PSI. 3D printers can't extrude materials that can take anything near that.
All people are printing now is the lower receiver, and maybe some of the ergonomics stuff like grips and hand guards. This shit is not intensive, nor expensive, to make.
The only notable thing about the lower for an AR-15 variant is that it is the serialized part and this legally the firearm. However that law could be changed, if needed, and then you'd be SOL.
This is in no way, shape, or form a script kidde operation. It is just making AR-15 lowers, something people have done forever. The only reason some geeks are obsessed with it is because they don't understand materials science and think that this means you can print a whole gun.
"Because they require skill to operate."
Sorry, but no.
As someone pointed out above: once someone who does have skill creates the CNC code, any fairly unskilled person can load an ingot, fill the lube reservoir, and hit the "start" button.
"That is why the ATF is not concerned at the moment."
Nonsense. The ATF is not concerned at the moment -- and may never be concerned -- because it's not illegal to make your own gun. And never has been.
Sounds like an easy solution. Use the gun to rob someone of their clothes.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Let's see, which is better for my use as a criminal
- A gun that will "last for generations" and keep a permanent record of the ammo fired from it in the form of bullet striations
- A gun that I can fire 30-60 times and then literally dispose of in a fire leaving zero provable trace for anyone to link me to it
Why on earth would a criminal want a gun that would "last for generations" as opposed to one that can be used and then destroyed?
Prohibition was not an example of government taking away alcohol. It was an example of people taking away alcohol from other people. It was a constitutional amendment, remember.
If it's laser sintering of metal powder alone it's going to be full of holes like swiss cheese (even 98% density is hard to get) which I'd say is what the above poster meant about it blowing up in your face. There are turbines made from powdered metal but it's not a single sintering step, forging (ie. hitting or squeezing soft hot metal really hard) is done as well to get rid of all those holes.
So if you want a gun barrel from a 3D printer that works at least once you'll need a bit more gear than a laser sintering 3D printer.
A better solution would be to be more aggressive with using Read the rest of this comment... thing.
If they can make the story summaries on the first place click-to-expand, they can do it for posts to. In fact, it kind of bugs me that "Read the rest of this comment" requires a page reload - they should just hide the way the do story summaries. They could probably even make the max length displayed a per-user configuration setting.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Uh. The NRA is its members. Yes, manufacturers also support the NRA. Mainly by purchasing advertising in the magazines and space at the conventions but also by donations. So, when 3d printers are capable of producing whole, functioning guns there might be some friction but probably not as most people will still prefer to purchase known, tested designs from known manufacturers.
But there are a bunch of people talking out their ass as they haven't a fucking clue about the first things about firearms. plastic printed guns are the NON STRESS parts, lower on a AR-15 the grips ect. the internals all need to be made of steel, and assembled properly (even if you could print them all together, an AR-15 is complex on the inside with many small springs) Laser sintering, the parts are going to be porous and need to be filled in, and then heat treated with a forge not your every day oven (unless yours can get to 1300 degree's+). the barrel needs to be of sufficient strength not to explode during the first round. (ie stand up to pressures from 35,000 psi (for a 9mm handgun round) to 55,000 psi + for rifle rounds. the bolt and firing pin need to be stronger so they don't fly back into your face. Laser sintering is used for some things these days like making door handles, but after they are made they are fragile VERY fragile. they need to have bronze or other metal added to fill in the gaps and hold it together properly. none of this is going to work for a little "script kiddie" at home. There is a element of skill involved with firearms manufacture, you don't just plonk them together. they need fitting and adjusting to work correctly. there are very few action parts of a firearm that are "drop in" most need fitting and adjusting to work correctly. Sorry for anything Rude, but all i see is Fear mongering from people who don't know the internal workings of a firearm from a hole in the wall. i would expect better from people on a site like this. i am not a professional computer programmer, or network engineer, i don't presume to tell you any Shlub can do you your job just as good as you. Don't presume to tell me that any shlub with a computer can do my job as a gunsmith as good or better than me. Do some research first, EDUCATE yourself on these things. Go to a firearms Forum. Good ones that i am a member of are Thehighroad.org, and Canadiangunnutz.com We arent a bunch of inbred rednecks like people would like you to think, most of us hold down very hard jobs (some of the same jobs you yourselves have)