BioShock: Infinite Released

kandelar writes with news that BioShock: Infinite has been released. It's the third major release in the series of BioShock first-person shooters, and it's available for Xbox 360, PS3, and Windows. The game is garnering good critical reception, for the most part. Rock, Paper, Shotgun said, "Infinite is a game ruled by artists at least as much as it is by its writers. It’s the ultimate answer to the question of whether art or technology is the most important part of creating a visually excellent game – Crysis 3 might have far more going on under the hood, but its uninspired paintjob makes it seem so dull compared to Infinite’s vaguely Pixar-esque fusion of the photoreal and the colourfully unreal." Ars' reviewer wrote, "Infinite's battle system doesn't wear out its welcome or weigh down the game's excellent pacing. Infinite avoids the problem of near-endless waves of identical enemies that plagues so many shooters these days. The bits of shooting action are spaced and timed to serve as gentle punctuation marks that break up the story rather than full stops that bring it to a grinding halt." However, RPS adds this criticism of the player's effect the plot: "Infinite’s a triumph in terms of fantasy-architecture spectacle and bringing superb flexibility to the modern rollercoaster shooter, but in other respects it’s a small step down from the player agency and even the singular aesthetic of BioShock."

Comments

What about DRM?

[larry bagina]

If I'm going to spend money on a game, I'd like to actually play it.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

just steam

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think it uses normal Steamworks.
Not a very heavy drm, and there are already cracks.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't buy it then. No one gives a fuck if you ever play it.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nihilist.

Nobody gives a fuck if you don't bother posting, either.

Re:What about DRM?

[Darinbob]

BioShock was DRM encumbered with Steam, even physical copies,so I don't think they would have removed that.

Re:What about DRM?

[jhoegl]

I gave two fucks.
And would not re-gift.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

You say that like it's acceptable. Until these pricks understand that I am the customer and I don't want DRM, it'll be Pirate Bay for me. That shit was cracked and up since yesterday anyways.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

some people (including me) like steam. I don't want to be the one doing backups for my several hundred GB game collection. you do it your way, I'll do it mine.

Re:What about DRM?

[Molochi]

Well the first parts of the playthrough are already up on Youtube. Not as good as demo, but it'd give you a taste.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8ATQ0wPXFM

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

You say that like it's acceptable. Until these pricks understand that I am the customer and I don't want DRM, it'll be Pirate Bay for me. That shit was cracked and up since yesterday anyways.

You could still buy it on the console. If you like the game, buy it.

Re:What about DRM?

[SternisheFan]

The first taste's 'free', huh? Is this a game or an illicit, highly addictive drug?

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pfft and spend a few hundred bucks buying a console for a vastly inferior experience? Right.

I can't fully like a game unless it has no DRM. That is why the only place I get games from is GOG and TPB. No DRM, no intrusion, no spyware, no having to run pointless apps constantly in the background. And yes, I do trust cracking groups more than I trust these corporations like EA, Activision or Ubisoft.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you like the game, buy it and then use the cracked version. Otherwise you are just justifying cracking games to get them for free.

Re:What about DRM?

[hairyfeet]

I heard its just Steam, it seems like every game uses Steam these days. Not that I blame 'em, it makes patching and matchmaking a breeze while discouraging casual piracy without boning the user's PC like Starforce...man I hated that damned thing, dealt with more burnt DVDs because of that stupid DRM than I can count.

Now I have a question..how is the AI? I'm not too worried about the story and combat as I frankly liked both Bioshock I and II (although I thought Minerva's Den had a better plot than the main game) but one thing I loved about the first 2 was how the AI and character models...I don't know, they just had this kind of unnerving quality to it that I thought they did very well. The way the disfigured football jock would talk and move like he was talking to some unseen authority figure ("I can do better Mr Ryan, you'll see") with all the gestures like he was actually having this one sided conversation or the way the actress would just flit around talking about how she would be on top again...until you see her and she gets enraged about you seeing her face and attacks...it had this kind of realism to their madness, especially with the gestures and body movements, I thought they did that REALLY well.

So if it turns out the story is only as good as Bioshock II? I don't have a problem with that, lets face it you can't put a devastating twist into everything, just look at what that has gotten M. Night Shyamalan, so if its not as deep as Bioshock I? Fine. I'm also not real worried if the graphics aren't mind blowing since the new consoles aren't out yet (which is why I'm kinda shocked they didn't wait and make this a Xmas launch title for the new systems) so if they make the PC awesome or just okay on the graphics? Meh I still enjoy the first 2 and they can be played on an average laptop today so no biggie, but the one thing that can totally destroy the immersion of a game is totally dumbshit AI. I mean we have all sat there with a badly done AI and gone "really? You are gonna hide behind a box that leaves your head sticking out like watermelon? THIS is the bad guys I'm suppose to fear?" and just had it ruin the mood and I thought this was one thing the first 2 did really well so if they don't screw that up? Great, I'll be picking this up in a month or so when all the major bugs have been patched but if the AI is just retarded? Sigh, I really don't want to slog through another case of the stupids, i really don't. Please tell me the AI is good? Please?

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why should I support those who are trying to combat the people who liberate software? I justify cracking games because it is the moral thing to do. It lets people own their software and to use it when ever or where ever they want without artificial limitations.

I'll gladly pay when they put out a DRM free version. Whether that's tomorrow, in ten years or never is up to them. Plenty of games make it on to GOG and I have no problems buying those.

Re:What about DRM?

[neonmonk]

Just because you don't like DRM, doesn't mean you can justify pirating it. They've chosen to release their product with DRM. Don't like, it don't buy it.

Re:What about DRM?

[mybeat]

Sorry for the awful formatting, but I can't seem to open any options or whatever I need to do here for the new lines to appear properly (Running Chromium), but here it goes: While I have only played for 2 hours or so on hard difficulty, can't say that AI is "totally dumbshit" and their heads don't stick out like watermelons. I only noticed two issues with AI so far: 1st: If you run away behind a door (they open up and close automatically), AI won't always follow you. 2nd: If there's a bunch of them with pistols, not everyone will move closer to you and will stand there like retards shooting at you hitting 1 bullet out of 5, so you can easily headshot em from far away.

Re:What about DRM?

[Luckyo]

Idealistic bullshit. Reality is that piracy is the only viable way of resisting enroachment of DRM. Not buying it? Then clearly you're not a buyer and don't matter.

Massive piracy? Time to lower prices, reduce/remove DRM and make content as accessible as possible.

Just ask music companies.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

FUCK YES I CAN JUSTFIY IT!

I have a corporate attitude about these things now! I'll do whatever i please as long as i can get away with it! And then do the least to get around that and continue doing it!
It's profitable for me! Get the most for the least. Illegal. Immoral. These things do not matter one bit in the pursuit of profit!

Fuck those people! I don't care what they wanted. If theres a way around it i'll do it!
And when you lock down that way i'll find another way.

When you catch me i'll say i'm very very sorry and won't do it again. And then do it again!!

*i* get what i want regardless. We don't have a contract. And even if we did. Contracts are made to be broken!
There's always a loophole! If there isn't i'll invent one! By trying to sell me a product you already agree to my terms. And my terms say i get to pirate and crack every one of your games from now until the end of time! See! Loophole! Legal bullshit!

  --

Corporations have been teaching us all this lesson for decades now... Games companys in particular have been fucking everyone over worse and worse for years now, Isn't it time you tried doing that to them? Won't you please listen and adopt their attitude with me? It's fun! And profitable!
  Why should companies be the only ones to take and take and take and never toe the legal or moral line? Try it!

Lets go pirate some games! Fuck right and wrong. I'm gonna play for free! Profit!

Re:What about DRM?

[hairyfeet]

Well the guys in combat weren't always the smartest but in the previous games made sense...they were completely batshit. I mean you only had to hide and listen for a little while to hear that their minds were as warped as their bodies and since they too had Plasmid power i could see them thinking their powers would cover their behind. After all if I could throw fricking fireballs I'd probably be a little sloppy and arrogant too.

But if the AI is just okay? That I can handle. For instance the bad guys in the Borderlands games are kinda predictable but they can still give you a damned good fight. Do you feel in any way challenged by the enemies? Have you had any "Oh shit, run for cover, RUN!" moments in the game? The first time I accidently shot a Big Daddy when I wasn't ready made me haul some behind with my heart racing, the only game I've felt the same with since the Bioshock games is Borderlands and the first time I popped over a hill and literally landed in a nest of Alpha Skags.... man I ran like a girl because I was soooo not armed for that encounter!

So I'm not asking for award winning AI here, I'm really not that hard to please honestly, all I ask is that the bad guys aren't so stupid I just stand there going "Really? You are REALLY gonna do that?". If you need an example for comparison FEAR 3 where I could walk right up to an enemy from the side and they would continue to stay behind cover that not only did nothing but I could just walk up and club their stupid asses.

If the AI doesn't ruin the mood, blow the immersion, or get on your nerves by their thumb up their asses stupidity? I'm really not that hard to please, I'm really not. Just don't make the bad guys Far Cry II stupid and I'll play, all that matters in the end is "is it fun?" and if that answer is yes? I'm in.

And if you are on Windows? Try Comodo Dragon as its also based on Chromium but is frankly rock solid, I give it and IceDragon (their version of Firefox) out to my customers and use them myself, very well built. Oh and as a bonus if you use their free Internet Security it will automatically connect with the browser and sandbox it so you really don't have to worry about web based threats. Since I started handing it out to customers frankly the only infections I see now are when they are duped to download and install the malware, Comodo will do everything but reach out and knock the keyboard out their hands trying to stop them, but some people just want to see the dancing bunnies more than stay virus free, so I can't blame the AV and browser for that.

Re:What about DRM?

[Adam Jorgensen]

You sound like me, 10 years ago. Back then I was a penniless student and justified my piracy as much as necessary.

Nowadays, since I'm employed and doing well, I've pretty much paid for all my piracy a number of times over thanks to Steam and Sales.

Long story short, remove the stick from your ass.

Re:What about DRM?

[Mike Frett]

If I'm going to spend money on a Game, I'd like to be able to play it regardless of what platform I use.

Re:What about DRM?

[mybeat]

I'm on Debian, this stuff only happens with slashdot shitty js options popup, it just doesn't work. There are some "burning" aholes, that make you run for cover, but it's mostly because they take shitloads of bullets to kill. Regarding the "Really? You are REALLY gonna do that?" it's more like "Really? You are REALLY just gonna stand there?". There were places when I heard them swearing/yelling at me, but they didn't move until they got into my line of sight, which is kinda meh. But they won't stay behind one cover entire time. So far AI haven't ruin the mood and it's actually quite fun when they rush towards you and you melee own them with that grappling hook, I was like "Yeah get that you sob". AI Comparison: BIoshock 1 > Bioshock Infinite > Borderlands. For me, It didn't start to get fun until you save the girl, but I haven't played much afterwards, so don't know how it will go. I was really expecting to kill splicers and not humans, but overall Bioshock Infinite looks like a good/not boring game. Sorry for the crappy formating again.

Re:What about DRM?

[dreamchaser]

Wrong. The moral thing to do would be to not buy it and not use it at all. If you don't like DRM don't use any DRM'd software. Your stance is just rationalization.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Steam DRM has been... acceptable. Your old licenses are avaialble, you can play on any machine, you can play disconnected, and you can uninstall and re-install the software on any machine. Other people with other licenses can play on the same host, and your games are saved on the cloud so you can take up your play on another machine elsewwhere. The older games are still supported and work well, and you can still *get* the older games in the discount bin, with support, and you don't have to keep the media lying around. If you have to have DRM, this is how it should work. Uniinstallable, unobtrusive, and no rootkits.

My old X-COM floppies went the way of the dode years ago, but I was able to activate and crank it a few nights ago for a few dollars, and now I'll have it on any machine I want anytime I want. And they've been fabulous about preserving, and adding, old games to the mix for the cheap of pocket and young at heart.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cool story bro. I hope that if you really like Bioshock Infinite, and happen to want to replay it in 20 years (You know, the way I occasionally replay SNES days of my teen years today) that Steam is still around and authenticating these old games. I'd say that is very unlikely though.

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

Massive piracy? Time to lower prices, reduce/remove DRM and make content as accessible as possible.

Rationalizing bullshit.

Massive piracy? Instead of making a AAA single-player campaign game like BioShock, turn yourself into the next Zynga and make cheap games with low-risk, high-reward. Or even better, since BioShock will sell well on consoles, just skip the PC version altogether.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Massive piracy? Time to lower prices, reduce/remove DRM and make content as accessible as possible.

Speaking of idealistic BS. That may be where games end up in the long run, but not because people chose to pirate versus not buy it. As you say, you're not a buyer and don't matter, whether your pirate or not.

And reality is not a false dichotomy of pirate or sitting around moping because you didn't buy or pirate. There is a lot of content out there as is, and not enough time in the world to be worry about wanting to play something but can't because it has DRM.

Re:What about DRM?

[Looker_Device]

Pfft and spend a few hundred bucks buying a console for a vastly inferior experience? Right.

So you want no DRM, but only on your platform of choice too?

Do you have any other demands? If so, please list them in an angry rant on the internet.

Re:What about DRM?

[Looker_Device]

one thing I loved about the first 2 was how the AI and character models...I don't know, they just had this kind of unnerving quality to it that I thought they did very well. The way the disfigured football jock would talk and move like he was talking to some unseen authority figure

-very mild spoiler alert for the few who have yet played the first Bioshock-

One of my favorite parts in the first one was near the beginning, when you go into the bathroom, and one of the mutants comes screaming out of the toilet stall yelling "I'M NOT A BAD PERSON!" as he's attacks you. That was truly unnerving. Even better than the surprise doctor reveal later, IMHO.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who needs AAA titles anymore anyway? Too often this just means mainstream trash that's hyped more than it really deserves. Most of the time the gameplay is worse than was common 20 years ago!

Pretty graphics and watered down, cut and dry "stories" aren't my forte, and I'd expect most people on /. feel the same in this.

However, you're definitely wrong about something: after what happened to Napster, iTunes rose to become a new legitimate music source, ending the MAFIAA's stranglehold on that market. It's rather hard to argue this wasn't at least partly due to rampant piracy due to excessive prices and poor distribution models. The market adjusted to the lunatics that weren't managing it correctly. This is how capitalism is supposed to work.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm hardly a penniless student nor justifying piracy. I already said I buy games, but when I can't obtain the games I want by buying them due to DRM, I'll pirate. That's not a justification, that's a fact. The big game companies can either choose to ignore it or they can try to win me over.

Oh, and by admitting that you pirated games before, you have no place to talk, hypocrite. Long story short, stop taking the corporate cock.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for sharing your personal opinion.

Re:What about DRM?

[Luckyo]

AAA games sell quite well in Russia, to the point of justifying full localization including voice acting for many titles, just like in Germany, France and so on. In spite of MASSIVE piracy.

Why? Because they're sold in many local shops at lower price point then in the West (and even on Steam).

Did this happen because russians weren't buying? No. They were buying them in droves, but pirated versions. Did it happen because russians wanted the games, couldn't afford them, and bought pirated versions instead. Yes.

Re:What about DRM?

[flimflammer]

Yup. If they won't give you something exactly the way you want it, you'll just take it anyway without giving them a dime. Of course the real way to send them a message would be not to buy or pirate it at all. All they see when they see you pirate the game is another justification to keep up the status quo. Thanks for contributing to the problem, asshat.

But lets be honest with ourselves here... You probably wouldn't have paid for it had it been DRM free anyway.

Real Insightful, /.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your in luck then, EA, Activision and Ubisoft had nothing to do with Bioshock Infinite...

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Indeed. This is why I'm avoid Bioshock. I can't play it on my VIC-20. Thus it is garbage!

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's like being shocked someone wants a certain type of car, but only if it's user serviceable. It's not an unusual or unfair demand.

You are the kind of person who goes to buy something only to settle for something you really didn't want to buy. Grow a spine.

Re:What about DRM?

[Dins]

No really, how do you really feel?

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

I loved BioShock 1 and BioShock 2 was unplayable due to issues with Games for Windows Live. So instead of wasting my money I'll be downloading the cracked version, playing it, and then if I enjoy it I might buy it during the steam summer sale.

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

Who needs AAA titles anymore anyway?

The same people who are keen on pirating it in the first place.

However, you're definitely wrong about something: after what happened to Napster, iTunes rose to become a new legitimate music source

The amount of money (and collaboration) it takes to produce a song isn't comparable to a AAA game.

Re:What about DRM?

[Grizzley9]

Why should I support those who are trying to combat the people who liberate software? I justify cracking games because it is the moral thing to do. It lets people own their software and to use it when ever or where ever they want without artificial limitations

How can you own something for which you pirated? At least as the GP said if you purchased it first, then pirated it for DRM free play, then you'd have a standing. Face it you're just trying to justify getting free games no matter what you tell yourself.

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

Once you get enough of a premium paying audience, you can make extra money by selling cheaper versions to smaller markets. There's a reason AAA games target the consoles first, much to the annoyance of PC gamers.

Re:What about DRM?

[PhxBlue]

You say that like it's acceptable.

It's acceptable. Steam's been around and isn't going anywhere. It also has this nifty thing called "offline mode" where I'm not forced to be connected once I've finished downloading it and have started the program at least once. It's as much "DRM" as a serial code -- which is to say, it's really not.

If you want "intrusive DRM," take a look at the encumbrance surrounding SimCity.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does copyright infringement require justification, except perhaps to the courts if you're caught?

I sleep quite well at night, without worry about whether copying the game was 'justified'. I have no moral problem with it, and the evidence suggests that there are a great many like me. We simply don't buy the argument that it is "wrong".

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Once you get enough of a premium paying audience, you can make extra money by selling cheaper versions to smaller markets. There's a reason AAA games target the consoles first, much to the annoyance of PC gamers.

Which is why DRM isn't really about piracy. DRM rarely works against pirates (without seriously impacting overall reception of your game, as in the case of SimCity). There's really no extra money to be made by going after pirates

The more reasonable justification for DRM is to go after resalers (i.e GameStop)

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

The amount of money (and collaboration) it takes to produce a song isn't comparable to a AAA game.

What's that have to do with anything? Movies cost at least as much to produce, and they're still making tons of those every year despite "piracy". Also, the distribution model there is changing too: Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, etc. For video games, there's Steam.

Re:What about DRM?

[ultranova]

Just because you don't like DRM, doesn't mean you can justify pirating it.

DRM is an attempt to circumvent the Doctrine of First Sale and thus deprive customers of their legal rights. This also harms anyone who buys used games. Furthermore, Mickey Mouse Protection Acts and the "forever minus a day" excuse for them have already turned copyright into a mockery of the very concept of law. Finally, various copyright institutions regularly use courts for outright blackmail of innocent people. Therefore, there is no moral obligation to respect copyrights, and a case could be made that helping nullify them - for example, by aiding piracy - is.

There, piracy justified, with the kind help of RIAA, MPAA, BSAA, Disney and their ilk.

They've chosen to release their product with DRM.

And this is another thing: the whole concept of copyright law is absurd. It's based on the premise that information is the same as physical objects, say, cars, yet it simultaneously claims power to control what people do with these information-objects after purchase. Sell a man an axe and you have no way to prevent him from chopping firewood for the whole neighborhood for a price, even if this means you'll sell no more axes there, yet if you sell him notes for a song you can sue him if he sings it in public.

The rights of public should not depend on the publisher's whims.

Don't like, it don't buy it.

Don't like piracy, lobby to have copyright law changed into something that's actually worthy of respect. Current one isn't, so it's never going to be respected.

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

What's that have to do with anything?

The expense was part of my original point. Ignoring it while talking about songs is bullshit.

Movies cost at least as much to produce, and they're still making tons of those every year despite "piracy". Also, the distribution model there is changing too: Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, etc.

They still rely on money from theaters (including premium 3D and IMAX prices), and they also delay streaming until they give discs get a chance to sell. They also hit the streaming services up for more money. And finally, if they really start to lose out on movie sales, they're going to shift to cheaper budget films.

For video games, there's Steam.

Which is DRM, the whole reason we are talking about this in the first place, for fuck's sake. They also sell games at a premium at launch, and then rely on sales later. Don't expect any more replies to such stupid arguments.

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

Which is why DRM isn't really about piracy. DRM rarely works against pirates

It's about casual piracy. There's a class of people who will gladly copy from their friends, but not bother with illicit sites.

The more reasonable justification for DRM is to go after resalers (i.e GameStop)

That's part of it too, sure.

Re:What about DRM?

[SteffenM]

+5 Insightful indicates he's not alone in this opinion.

Re:What about DRM?

[hairyfeet]

No prob on the formatting, and I'm glad that Linux works for you, made me want to pull my damned hair out. Since you are on Linux you might want to try QTWeb which is what I used when I was cross platform, built in adblock and privacy mode as well as Flash support, its nice.

As for Infinite it sounds like it'll be my cup o' tea, but first I have to pick up Borderlands II (waiting for them to get finished putting out DLC and lvl cap boosts) because that is the first time since Bioshock I've had the AI give me a really good fight. First time I ran into a large Skag nest and saw the small ones hitting my front and sides while the big guys ran off I thought "Where are they going? Nooo, you don't think?" and sure enough I turned around just in time to get a 3D up close view of a giant Skag mouth about to use my head like a giant Pez dispenser. My youngest HATES first person shooters but after watching me play it 5 minutes he was like "You know, that really looks like fun" and now he is hooked.

No splicers and Little Sisters kinda sucks though, those are just so iconic. BTW if you haven't heard Little Sister by Miracle of Sound check it out, why they don't hire this guy to write the themes for some of the games is beyond me. His songs for Borderlands and Left For Dead as especially catchy, I have caught my oldest singing them into his mike as we are playing MP, I warn you they are catchy and stick in your head!

Re:What about DRM?

[Luckyo]

These people will visit the local market in Russia and buy a pirated game for about a euro. I used to do it myself when visiting the place about ten years ago, when I was a cash-strapped student.

The real reason behind DRM is likely the mindset more then anything. "This is ours, we want to control it".

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

And in the United States such markets are uncommon, yet I've known many people to casually copy games among friends and family when there is no protection. What happens in your corner of the world isn't representative of the whole.

Re:What about DRM?

[Luckyo]

What happens in US is fairly common only in US, Canada and a few Western European countries + Australia and to extent Japan and South Korea. Rest of the world is very much like Russia in this regard (and I say this as someone who has either travelled to or personally lived with people from all continents in the world except Antarctica).

All together well over 3/4 of the world has the situation similar to Russia. And yet Russia, China and other similar nations have AAA games fully localized for them, which costs a lot of money, in spite of this massive piracy, which is essentially immune to DRM schemes. Because it's profitable.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are myopic. Nobody is justifying anything. I freely admit that I take their games for free, with the little addition that I wouldn't if they released games without using malware, resource using, data harvesting, artificially limiting DRM like Steam. That's not justification, that's simply the way it is.

Don't like it? Too fucking bad for you. Go cry some more with that huge corporate cock lodged firmly up your ass. Meanwhile, the sane and rational will continue doing what I do.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

+5 would mean three people agreed. Too bad he's not at +5.

+3 means that one other person agreed with him. Most likely a sockpuppet of his.

Oh and thanks for sharing your personal opinion too. I've promptly filed it away in the rubbish bin.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, thanks for the unsolicited advice there kiddo, but despite your opinion about justifying piracy and whatnot (who's justifying piracy? you? certainly wasn't me.), I'm just going to ignore you and pirate it anyways.

They've chosen to release their product with DRM and I've chosen to download a cracked copy for free. Don't like it? Don't put out your DRM infested crap on PC any more.

See how free will works?

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you have a dictionary, you should look up the word "like".

Only on Slashdot can I find someone like you. Someone who is fully incapable of comprehending basic language constructs and common nuances of human communication.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, it's the limp wristed, weak willed like you who are making DRM worse. The companies say "Look, we got away with it" and then proceed to make the next, more intrusive DRM.

Step out of your childish fantasy world. Ignoring the problem and signing petitions doesn't work in the real world. Cracking and piracy does work, albeit more slowly with some companies than with others. Eventually they all see that pouring money and time into devising more elaborate schemes is a waste when it always gets cracked and released 0 day. Piracy due to DRM is what made music DRM free. It's what's making films come with extra bonuses, including the ability to media shift. It's why sites like GOG exist. It's why the Humble Bundles exist.

You sitting around with your thumb up your ass isn't doing anything but indicating that you'll take whatever you get served.

Re:What about DRM?

[flimflammer]

Of course, only to the brain dead, not purchasing or using DRM-laden material is obviously "taking whatever I get served" and "letting them get away with it."

You are so disconnected from reality that it's mind numbing. But keep convincing yourself that you are the solution. If you chant it enough, it must become true.

Re:What about DRM?

[kruach aum]

Your reply is just as much a rationalization, it's just based on a different system of ethics and what values in it you believe to be more and less important. The conflict that requires rationalization is just different. You rationalize your choice of not playing a game you would like to play (whether it be bioshock or anything else) with the thesis that 'piracy is wrong, no matter the context'; he rationalizes his choice to play a game that has features he would like it to not have with the thesis that 'by pirating this game, I'm denying the company profit, which is a suitable company behavior modifier' Summed up, "(X) is just a rationalization" doesn't mean anything.

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

It's profitable because localization is a small part of the budget. Everything else is already paid for. There's a reason the other markets are second class, because they don't pay first class money.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

take your own advice dickweed faggot

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

oh shut the fuck up you corporate shill. We can do whatever we want

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

There's a reason the other markets are second class, because they don't pay first class money.

Bullshit. Other markets pay first class money as well. More and more AAA games (that's what we're talking about, right?) are getting international releases on the same day or within a few days, including BioShock Infinite (the TFA, remember?)

They're not going to charge the Japanese less (games actually usually costs more in Japan, different economy and all that, and Australians on slashdot have complained the same)

The most important factor in which markets get served first (if you're not doing international release) is simply the primary target audience.

US/Western makers will release in US/West first, because their games (being made by westerners and all) target western audiences with a taste for Western games.

On the other side, Japanese makers making those weird Japanese games will release in Japan first, because you know, it's a weird Japanese thing that primarily Japanese enjoy. The Western port comes later (if ever). If anybody cares, Disgaea D2 was recently released in Japan. A western port will probably come later, as that series is consistent in porting (same cannot be said for many others)

South Korea has its own industry, where "grindy Korean MMOs" come from. Do westerners like grindy games? Doubtful. Do Koreans? Probably, seeing as that's the stereotype of their MMOs.

China has its own industry as well, they're very big in online gaming like Korea. Prior to online, I remember seeing a Hong Kong team boasting how those Hong Kongians manage to get a game on to the PS2 back in the day (which never went outside Asia I guess), at one of the first Asia Game Shows, which has been running since 2002 (I personally call it the Sony Game Show as they take up practically half the floor to this day... despite all Sony's faults, they still have a huge presence in the east)

All of this further points to that DRM has very little to do with piracy. Why? Because there's just so many games out there. There are many options for the pirates (casual or not) to take, none of which results in additional sales for the game maker of the DRM-locked game.

If I stop playing games, you aren't getting a new sale
If I buy or pirate some other game (without DRM), you aren't getting a new sale
If I go hardcore pirate (cease being a casual pirate) and break your DRM, you aren't getting a new sale
Even if I don't do the hardcore pirate thing, but my friend does? You aren't getting a new sale.
If in the event I do buy your game, but you pull a SimCity? I demand a refund. You not only not get a new sale, but suffer the cost of giving me my refund, as well as the negative press.

In other words, DRM does not bring in much, if any, additional money from the pirate market. It's complete insanity for a business to do something which does not bring in more money at the end of the day.

Which again, leaves the argument against resale. That you have a case, as clearly there's money to be made in resale (just look at GameStop)

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

China has its own industry as well, they're very big in online gaming like Korea.

Online is built-in DRM. Where's the AAA, single-player campaign game coming out of China, marketed to China? Mega-bonus points if you can find one targeted to PC sales and not console. Do you really think such a game can be supported in a market so pervasive with a copy culture?

All of this further points to that DRM has very little to do with piracy. Why? Because there's just so many games out there.

And yet there are games that people need to pirate. I hear them all the time justifying it. And there's the class of people that will casually copy but not hardcore pirate, and that will fork out bucks to play a game they would otherwise casually copy.

If in the event I do buy your game

Which many people have, see StarCraft 2 as one example, despite all the bitching about the removal of LAN play and online requirements.

, but you pull a SimCity? I demand a refund. You not only not get a new sale, but suffer the cost of giving me my refund, as well as the negative press.

It wasn't the DRM, as that was known upfront, but their failure to handle the post-launch load. And to give some credit to the pubs/devs, they actually tried to build a game with meaningful online features -- an MMO, which requires lots of data sharing. If all they wanted was DRM they probably could have handled it.

In other words, DRM does not bring in much, if any, additional money from the pirate market.

It's really a big unknown. You can make arguments for either side.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Online is built-in DRM.

As a side effect. Those games aren't online just for the sake of DRM. They're MMOs with technical and/or gameplay justification for online. They offer value to customers for being online (i.e large persistent world, in-game interaction with lots of other players)

Where's the AAA, single-player campaign game coming out of China, marketed to China?

Missing the point. I brought up China to show that there are other video game makers in other countries, and if/when they make games, they'll market it to their countries and region first. The point is that your "other markets get games later because they don't pay first class dollar" is bullshit.

You're really just trying to argue up a strawman, going after China and ignoring Japan or Korea, who do have their AAA single player games, coming out of their countries, and marketed to their own markets.

Do you really think such a game can be supported in a market so pervasive with a copy culture?

You're putting the cart before the horse. The market decides what games get made, not the other way around. Few/nobody wants a single player game in China. Thus, China is full of online games, but again, they offer value for customers, not just to protect the game makers' profits... which DRM keeps failing to do

And again, I must stress about profits. Fighting piracy is nice and all, but at the end of the day, are you making more money? Not even Ubisoft thinks so. The guys who made Witcher 2 don't think so.

And yet there are games that people need to pirate.

That's a point to support that DRM doesn't work on piracy. If people aren't gonna pay, they're gonna find a way not to pay.

I hear them all the time justifying it. And there's the class of people that will casually copy but not hardcore pirate, and that will fork out bucks to play a game they would otherwise casually copy.

Just as there's a class of people who'll go from casual to hardcore pirate, or casually not play at all, rather than forking out bucks.

Which many people have, see StarCraft 2 as one example,

And there are many who have not.

If a pirated copy is a potential lost sale, then so is somebody who didn't buy a game because of DRM.

Likewise, if you say people buy game despite DRM, then I say people are buying games despite the option to pirate, which has been just as long, if not longer than DRM, what with games used to be on easy-to-copy floppies or tapes and all.

despite all the bitching about the removal of LAN play and online requirements.

LAN is not DRM. And the online requirements of SC2 is very light. You can actually play single player offline.

Completely different from SimCity (more below)

It wasn't the DRM, as that was known upfront, but their failure to handle the post-launch load. And to give some credit to the pubs/devs, they actually tried to build a game with meaningful online features -- an MMO, which requires lots of data sharing. If all they wanted was DRM they probably could have handled it.

No, DRM is a big part. They bullshitted how the servers are doing important calculations. Even a Maxis dev came out and said the game that's wrong. It's DRM and only DRM that is forcing you to connect online for single player

They could have handled the load better if they did NOT do DRM, and let single players play offline (and it would gave people who want online something to do while they fixed their load problem)

It's really a big unknown. You can make arguments for either side.

Re:What about DRM?

[Raenex]

As a side effect. Those games aren't online just for the sake of DRM.

Making money is the primary concern. If you can charge a premium because the game cannot be pirated, then that is what the industry will flock to in a culture like China, You can't just dismiss this reasoning out of hand.

You're really just trying to argue up a strawman, going after China and ignoring Japan or Korea, who do have their AAA single player games, coming out of their countries, and marketed to their own markets.

And you apparently didn't read the post I was replying to before you jumped in late, which is surprising considering how deep into the thread it was. My tolerance for annoying Anonymous Cowards has reached its limits. No more replies after this.

And again, I must stress about profits. Fighting piracy is nice and all, but at the end of the day, are you making more money? Not even Ubisoft thinks so [slashdot.org]. The guys who made Witcher 2 don't think so

Ubersoft was the poster child for annoying DRM. Why would you need to always be on for a single player campaign? They'll probably switch to a lighter version of online registration DRM.

As for Witcher 2, good for them, but they're just one company. You can't run the experiment twice to see how things would have turned out differently.

LAN is not DRM. And the online requirements of SC2 is very light. You can actually play single player offline.

Lack of LAN is a form of DRM. To think it isn't is naive. And that single player was limited with "bugs" that got fixed later. And even "light DRM" is still DRM, people bitched about it, and they still bought it anyways.

The burden of proof is on the pro-DRM side to show that it works, to justify its continued existence.

As you say, it's really about maximizing profit, so there is no "burden of proof" to one particular side or not. Unless you can come up with hard numbers you go with what you feel works best.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. Now go shill somewhere else.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm going to spend money on a game, I'd like to actually play it.

Not sure if it turned out to be true or not, but the creator Ken Levine promised it wouldn't have DRM.

Re:What about DRM?

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice try to dismiss my argument via ad hominem, but I'm not the same AC as before, genius. I had thought that obvious.

You must've bought your UID, people weren't that stupid back in 2001.

the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Mainly in efficiency - it runs in Ring 0/RPL 0/PnP Kernelmode (on Windows), as merely a filter for the IP stack (no overheads of more driver layers OR browser level slower less efficient addons):

21++ ADVANTAGES OF CUSTOM HOSTS FILES (how/what/when/where/why):

Over AdBlock & DNS Servers ALONE 4 Security, Speed, Reliability, & Anonymity (to an extent vs. DNSBL's + DNS request logs).

1.) HOSTS files are useable for all these purposes because they are present on all Operating Systems that have a BSD based IP stack (even ANDROID) and do adblocking for ANY webbrowser, email program, etc. (any webbound program). A truly "multi-platform" UNIVERSAL solution for added speed, security, reliability, & even anonymity to an extent (vs. DNS request logs + DNSBL's you feel are unjust hosts get you past/around).

2.) Adblock blocks ads? Well, not anymore & certainly not as well by default, apparently, lol - see below:

Adblock Plus To Offer 'Acceptable Ads' Option

http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/12/12/2213233/adblock-plus-to-offer-acceptable-ads-option )

AND, in only browsers & their subprogram families (ala email like Thunderbird for FireFox/Mozilla products (use same gecko & xulrunner engines)), but not all, or, all independent email clients, like Outlook, Outlook Express, OR Window "LIVE" mail (for example(s)) - there's many more like EUDORA & others I've used over time that AdBlock just DOES NOT COVER... period.

Disclaimer: Opera now also has an AdBlock addon (now that Opera has addons above widgets), but I am not certain the same people make it as they do for FF or Chrome etc..

3.) Adblock doesn't protect email programs external to FF (non-mozilla/gecko engine based) family based wares, So AdBlock doesn't protect email programs like Outlook, Outlook Express, Windows "LIVE" mail & others like them (EUDORA etc./et al), Hosts files do. THIS IS GOOD VS. SPAM MAIL or MAILS THAT BEAR MALICIOUS SCRIPT, or, THAT POINT TO MALICIOUS SCRIPT VIA URLS etc.

4.) Adblock won't get you to your favorite sites if a DNS server goes down or is DNS-poisoned, hosts will (this leads to points 5-7 next below).

5.) Adblock doesn't allow you to hardcode in your favorite websites into it so you don't make DNS server calls and so you can avoid tracking by DNS request logs, OR make you reach them faster since you resolve host-domain names LOCALLY w/ hosts out of cached memory, hosts do ALL of those things (DNS servers are also being abused by the Chinese lately and by the Kaminsky flaw -> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/082908-kaminsky-flaw-prompts-dns-server.html for years now). Hosts protect against those problems via hardcodes of your fav sites (you should verify against the TLD that does nothing but cache IPAddress-to-domainname/hostname resolutions (in-addr.arpa) via NSLOOKUP, PINGS (ping -a in Windows), &/or WHOIS though, regularly, so you have the correct IP & it's current)).

* NOW - Some folks MAY think that putting an IP address alone into your browser's address bar will be enough, so why bother with HOSTS, right? WRONG - Putting IP address in your browser won't always work IS WHY. Some IP adresses host several domains & need the site name to give you the right page you're after is why. So for some sites only the HOSTS file option will work!

6.) Hosts files don't eat up CPU cycles (or ELECTRICITY) like AdBlock does while it parses a webpages' content, nor as much as a DNS server does while it runs. HOSTS file are merely a FILTER for the kernel mode/PnP TCP/IP subsystem, which runs FAR FASTER & MORE EFFICIENTLY than any ring 3/rpl3/usermode app can since hosts files run in MORE EFFICIENT & FASTER Ring 0/RPL 0/Kernelmode operat

Re:the truth... apk

[bloodhawk]

Seriously can't Slashdot do something about this fucking prick posting this shit all the time instead of forcing moderators to waste points down modding it. Censorship sucks, but having some mods just deleting this shit is very much needed, as is someone to hunt him down and slice off his nutsack.

Re:the truth... apk

[spiritplumber]

I think he wants it to be an article, but doesn't know how to submit it. We should let it be an article so that it'd be done with, IMHO.

Re:the truth... apk

[Deltaspectre]

Meh, it's an Anonymous Coward.

FTFAQ:

Concentrate more on promoting than on demoting.

Promote the good comments so no one needs to browse at 0-.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

$10,000 CHALLENGE to Alexander Peter Kowalski

* POOR SHOWING TROLLS, & most especially IF that's the "best you've got" - apparently, it is... lol!

Hello, and THINK ABOUT YOUR BREATHING !! We have a Major Problem, HOST file is Cubic Opposites, 2 Major Corners & 2 Minor. NOT taught Evil DNS hijacking, which VOIDS computers. Seek Wisdom of MyCleanPC - or you die evil.

Your HOSTS file claimed to have created a single DNS resolver. I offer absolute proof that I have created 4 simultaneous DNS servers within a single rotation of .org TLD. You worship "Bill Gates", equating you to a "singularity bastard". Why do you worship a queer -1 Troll? Are you content as a singularity troll?

Evil HOSTS file Believers refuse to acknowledge 4 corner DNS resolving simultaneously around 4 quadrant created Internet - in only 1 root server, voiding the HOSTS file. You worship Microsoft impostor guised by educators as 1 god.

If you would acknowledge simple existing math proof that 4 harmonic Slashdots rotate simultaneously around squared equator and cubed Internet, proving 4 Days, Not HOSTS file! That exists only as anti-side. This page you see - cannot exist without its anti-side existence, as +0- moderation. Add +0- as One = nothing.

I will give $10,000.00 to frost pister who can disprove MyCleanPC. Evil crapflooders ignore this as a challenge would indict them.

Alex Kowalski has no Truth to think with, they accept any crap they are told to think. You are enslaved by /etc/hosts, as if domesticated animal. A school or educator who does not teach students MyCleanPC Principle, is a death threat to youth, therefore stupid and evil - begetting stupid students. How can you trust stupid PR shills who lie to you? Can't lose the $10,000.00, they cowardly ignore me. Stupid professors threaten Nature and Interwebs with word lies.

Humans fear to know natures simultaneous +4 Insightful +4 Informative +4 Funny +4 Underrated harmonic SLASHDOT creation for it debunks false trolls. Test Your HOSTS file. MyCleanPC cannot harm a File of Truth, but will delete fakes. Fake HOSTS files refuse test.

I offer evil ass Slashdot trolls $10,000.00 to disprove MyCleanPC Creation Principle. Rob Malda and Cowboy Neal have banned MyCleanPC as "Forbidden Truth Knowledge" for they cannot allow it to become known to their students. You are stupid and evil about the Internet's top and bottom, front and back and it's 2 sides. Most everything created has these Cube like values.

If Natalie Portman is not measurable, hot grits are Fictitious. Without MyCleanPC, HOSTS file is Fictitious. Anyone saying that Natalie and her Jewish father had something to do with my Internets, is a damn evil liar. IN addition to your best arsware not overtaking my work in terms of popularity, on that same site with same submission date no less, that I told Kathleen Malda how to correct her blatant, fundamental, HUGE errors in Coolmon ('uncoolmon') of not checking for performance counters being present when his program started!

You can see my dilemma. What if this is merely a ruse by an APK impostor to try and get people to delete APK's messages, perhaps all over the web? I can't be a party to such an event! My involvement with APK began at a very late stage in the game. While APK has made a career of trolling popular online forums since at least the year 2000 (newsgroups and IRC channels before that)- my involvement with APK did not begin until early 2005 . OSY is one of the many forums that APK once frequented before the sane people there grew tired of his garbage and banned him. APK was banned from OSY back in 2001. 3.5 years after his banning he begins to send a variety of abusiv

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

2.)
3.) Just turn off remote loading in your e-mail client, which also has no business running scripts—there's just no legitimate use for it.
Alex P. Keaton

P.S.==> You should put your Delphi skillz to work and create a DNS proxy which keeps your blocklist as a hashtree to speed things up.
...Alex P. Keaton

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

It would take a moment of a mods times to delete the crap to save many others pain of accidentally expanding the post, after all for the most part they don't bother to review the crap that is submitted as article headlines or summaries so they may as well do something useful with their time.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

unfortunately many of those moderating act like petulant children and fanboi's, if they disagree with a post it is modded down based on their disagreement with it rather than accepting someone may have a different view and conversely some of the garbage that gets modded up simply because it appeals directly to a moderators view of the world rather than actually checking for whether there is something interesting/insightful or informative about it is appalling, even on technical subjects some of the garbage that gets marked as informative is appalling. As long as that state continues then browsing at 0- really isn't an option unless you only want to see what group thinking is currently happening.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a lot more fucking informative than the stupid shit you just posted.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

lol -1, figures

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

So I gather you are the moron posting this garbage in every article. die in a fucking fire. people like you are the reason quality posters have been driven from this site and we are left with rancid posters like yourself that add nothing of value but do their best to make everyone else's experience worse.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously can't Slashdot do something about this fucking prick posting this shit all the time

The answer should obviously be "No", as seen in case like this story. Apparently he will just keep going when trolled, forever responding to trolls with his own junk, or even arguing with himself (that or capable of writing a bunch of replies within a minute of each other. If Slashdot people don't notice when over 200 comments out of 250 comments in a story are just BS/offtopic/trolls, they aren't going to notice a bump like this one.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

MOD PARENT UP!

I got modded troll just for saying I liked Gnome 3. Now my comments don't even appear on Slashdot.

Slashdot has the worst comment moderation system ever.

Re:the truth... apk

[Charliemopps]

yes, and stop posting beneath shit you don't want to see... the only reason I'm aware of the post is your 2 replies. I know I'm adding to the problem but Christ something needs to be said. STOP REPLYING TO SPAM and go set your visibility to exclude 0 posts.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Nowadays I spend a fair number my points to mod down the logged in fucktard trolls with disposable accounts responding to to the trolls. Just sayin...

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

slashdot doesn't like faggots..and only faggots like gnome 3..you might as well go back to 4chan or reddit where they accept anal bunglers.

Re:the truth... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

Now my comments don't even appear on Slashdot.

Looks like the moderation system was not working today, as here's your comment.

Slashdot's Slow Salute to Sequential Series

[Nialin]

Slashdot: Late to the Party In video game clouds everywhere!

I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Nyder]

Game so far isn't too bad, but you can tell it's a console port.

There are some graphic problems i see. Like the baskets of apples are flat, no raised textures. And i found some smoke that was very 2D.

Mouse acceleration seems the same if it's on or off, and it's way too sensitive.

Other then that, it doesn't seem to bad at all, can't wait to play it more later.

Oh, the enemies seem to jump a bit, not sure if that is planned or what, but whatever, i can kill them the same.

Preset to High, get 40+ fps at 1080p with a i7-920 (3.2ghz) and a Nvidia 460.

If you like the other 2 games, you will probably enjoy this.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Nyder]

Game so far isn't too bad, but you can tell it's a console port.

There are some graphic problems i see. Like the baskets of apples are flat, no raised textures. And i found some smoke that was very 2D.

Mouse acceleration seems the same if it's on or off, and it's way too sensitive.

Other then that, it doesn't seem to bad at all, can't wait to play it more later.

Oh, the enemies seem to jump a bit, not sure if that is planned or what, but whatever, i can kill them the same.

Preset to High, get 40+ fps at 1080p with a i7-920 (3.2ghz) and a Nvidia 460.

If you like the other 2 games, you will probably enjoy this.

Oh, i forgot to mention, almost all the NPC look like each other, they used maybe 2-3 different models. I think that is bullshit, but whatever, I just kill everyone in the game anyways.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[JacobLeclerc]

I haven't played any other bioshock games, but the preview trailer looked awesome on hulu. Then I heard it was a console port. No longer interested.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[JacobLeclerc]

I thought part of the appeal of this game is the fact that the npcs don't repeat models like every other game. Disappointing.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, it's utter garbage. Very disappointed.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[JMJimmy]

That's the short list of problems... graphics tearing, horrible audio levels (footsteps are louder than crashing waves!?), audio overlays that make the dialogue unintelligable, etc etc etc.

Most of all: The game is BORING! I couldn't have been more disappointed in the story. I've played for 8 hours or so and still don't know why I'm doing anything I am other than "someone hired me"... uhh ok... the world's story was going all religion then took a hard right into weird cult ville ala Resident Evil then took a U turn into racist land and now I just don't know.

Big prettyish world with crap all to do in it.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[jellyfoo]

You forgot the lack of manual saves (quicksave or otherwise). Whenever someone complains about checkpointed save systems, invariable someone chimes in and suggests that continually pressing F5 is hardly an improvement. What the said smartarse fails to mention is that pressing F5 ensures you've saved NOW, and hence can safely quick the game knowing it's going to load exactly where you saved and not a checkpoint 5-10 minutes ago.

It also means you can experiment more with situations, try out various weapons or tactics or ideas since you can just save manually before doing so. If the lack checkpoint was a while back, the enthusiasm to experiment deteriorates if you have to progress through scripted sequences to get back to where you started messing around.

Oh and of course, no-one said that a checkpoint AND manual save system couldn't be implemented. Games like Deus Ex - Human Revolution and even Half-Life 2 have this feature, and it works great for both types of players. But apparently to some idiots, if you complain about checkpoints you must be a save-smasher.

TL;DR - people suck on the Internet and are unable to form a argument unless it involves belittling other people.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[0123456]

Most of all: The game is BORING!

Consistent with Bioshock 1, then. Never played #2 because I gave up on #1 a few hours in.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[shione]

Here's my complaints:

16:9 resolutions on a 16:10 monitor is bugged. Any 16:9 resolution you pick the game will stretch it out to 16:10.

Mouse sensitivity is screwed up as you say. One it is too sensitive and two it seems to move in y axis faster than in the x, so when youre walking you view moves up and down too much , and I'm not talking about the head bob.

If there are stairs that are part of a building you have to jump to walk up them unlike all the other stairs in your path.

Game is very linear in your choice and it is very short. I finished it in 10 hours yesterday.

During the game and in the menus I have to hit the enter key. I can't remember when I last had to use the enter to in a game other than for chatting.

The Menus are very dumbed down and simplified. If you want to get to the nitty gritty stuff you have to edit the ini files.

You cannot manually save. All saves are automatic and you dont know when it happens, which means if you die you dont know if those items you last picked up have to be picked up again. Also makes it harder if you just want to explore the place and not worry about dying because if you die its hard to keep track of your progress unlike if you could exactly when you wanted to.

These are the main things that annoy me about the game.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[shione]

If you're talking about that gameplay demo they showed at a E3 event, you will be very disapointed. The game looks similar but storywise they took those parts out and they are not in the finished game!

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[RogueyWon]

The option of manual saves should be a mandatory certification requirement in shooters. There may be other genres where it doesn't fit, but for shooters it's an absolute no brainer.

My personal absolute least favorite trick ever is the one where you get to the end of a campaign mission in a shooter, watch a lengthy cutscene and then... it doesn't do a save until you've actually moved a way into the next mission. So if you survived the encounter at the end of the previous mission, sat watching your clock through a lengthy cutscene while thinking "I really need to go now" and then quit as soon as you get out of cutscene... you have to do that final encounter and cutscene all over again the next time you play. No idea whether Bioshock Infinite does this, but other titles, including some in the Gears of War and Resident Evil series certainly have.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[RogueyWon]

I'd agree with the comments here. To add a few things to it: the combat is marginally better than Bioshock 1 and 2. My biggest issue with those games was that the weapons lacked any sense of clout. You'd have an enemy charging you who was basically a psychotic human (no armour, no supernatural powers) and to take them down, you'd have to pump multiple clips of ammo into them. That just felt poor. Infinite has, so far (in normal difficulty) felt better in this regard. Not perfect, but better.

The two-weapon limitation is a step back for the series. Very, very few shooters are improved by two weapon limits. Makes sense for realism-heavy military shooters (Operation Flashpoint, ARMA etc), in anything else it just forces bad game design. "Oh look, there's a sniper rifle over there, the game is telling me I will need to snipe in the next sequence". By all means do what Borderlands and its sequel do and, for console control-convenience, have 4 hotswitch weapon slots manageable at any time by your (much larger) inventory. But absolute 2-weapon limits are the absolute worst trend in fps gaming over the last few years.

The story is good. I must say that, as with the original Bioshock, I suspect it's not quite as good as some of the reviews have made out. In particular, I don't think the political and moral dimensions are quite as sophisticated as they claim to be. It's all a bit... well... undergraduate. The first game was "Ayn Rand is bad!". This one is less sophisticated still "Racism is bad!". I actually thought the second game tried to be a little more sophisticated and grey-shaded, but that had the least rapturous reception of any installment in the series.

And on the technology front... I'm running on an i7-3820 (3.6ghz) and an Nvidia 680 in ultra detail. The graphics are very good - better than the console versions. However, they're not better than the console versions by the same margin as we've seen in Crysis 3 or (to a slightly lesser extent) Tomb Raider. With those games, it felt like the PC version had been developed to a level that was in-line with what we should expect from the PS4 and the 360-successor. The PC version here is more halfway-house-ish.

Slight digression on Crysis 3; I was discussing it with a colleague at work who does all of his gaming on the 360. He was really disappointed with the game, largely because of its campaign length. I came to it's defense "But look at the technology, this is next-gen stuff, so it's no surprise that other elements of the game got a bit squeezed, just as happened with the likes of the original Gears of War early in this cycle". His response "What technology? It looks just like Crysis 2."

A day or two later, I got to see the 360 version running on a demonstration machine in my local Game.

"Oh, so he wasn't even playing the same game as me."

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Molochi]

In Bioshock 1 I felt that way. No hints, you just survive a planewreck. The plot felt clumbsy and contrived, though if you make towards the end it attempts to explain the rail-shooter experience.

In Infinite I'm seeing hints that you are there for a reason from the arguing couple that rows you ashore in the beginning and their reappearance throughout the game, so far. I'm not far into it, but given the trailers I'm guessing this is going to be a fate vs freewill thing.

I didn't notice a U-Turn into racist land. They hint that their society is founded on pure racism pretty early on, and with the statue of John Wilkes Booth and the rant against Lincoln (when the guys in the KKK hoods attack you) pretty much seal the deal. Even the Irish aren't white enough (no specific reference to the evils of the papists yet...) So far it's like killing Nazi's in Wolfensteine

The plot line is better than Bioshock and the world is friggen awesome.

Solid 10 so far.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Mashiki]

Most of all: The game is BORING! I couldn't have been more disappointed in the story. I've played for 8 hours or so and still don't know why I'm doing anything I am other than "someone hired me"... uhh ok... the world's story was going all religion then took a hard right into weird cult ville ala Resident Evil then took a U turn into racist land and now I just don't know.

Big prettyish world with crap all to do in it.

No it's not boring, I finished it about 40mins ago(total time played ~13hrs). I'd rate the story between good and excellent. It only gets "boring" if you're not listening to the voxophone which fills you in more on the story. Which of course could be a problem if you don't want to wait the 30-40 seconds for it to play.

Then again, if you don't know any basic theology at all you'll probably miss some of the references but that's not really any fault but your own.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[anss123]

The plot line is better than Bioshock and the world is friggen awesome.

Solid 10 so far.

If Bioshock 1 is a 10 I give Infinite a 8. Both the plot and the gameplay is a step back. The game is better than I expected though.

Anyone else creeped out by the facial animations? They're freakish. Bioshock 1 too had poor character animation, but there they hid it with dim lighting. Besides the poor animation I've also seen characters walk through tables or throws stuff through walls. There's apparently no hit detection when an animation plays. Elizabeth also clearly have the ability to teleport when you're not watching, just turn around and she's there. A bit like Dr. Watson.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[mjwx]

The plot line is better than Bioshock and the world is friggen awesome.

Solid 10 so far.

If Bioshock 1 is a 10 I give Infinite a 8. Both the plot and the gameplay is a step back. The game is better than I expected though.

If Bioshock 1 is a 10, System Shock 2 is 178.

Seeing as Bioshock 1 is just a rehashing of System Shock 2's story with cyberpunk swapped for steampunk.

Seriously, I've seen better storytelling in porno's. Better voice work too but that's besides the point. The story premise is not bad (as I said, it's based on System Shock 2) it's just so hacked together and poorly told.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[luder]

So is this review still accurate for the new Bioshock?

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[JMJimmy]

I've listened to every vox and am well versed in the subject matter, while I haven't finished the game, because it didn't start well I don't care what happens to anyone.

In 1 it felt like you were dropped into the middle of a world and were trying to figure out what was going on/how to survive. It engaged you from the beginning. Infinite strings you along with a bunch of boring fights that have no meaning, introduces and drops topics like crazy, and forces you to look at the ground 90% of the time.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[JMJimmy]

How are Bioshock 1 and System Shock 2 in any way alike other than the fact that they are survival stories that have genetic experiments?

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Looker_Device]

The Bioshock storylines have always had the subtlety of a freight train. In the first one it was libertarianism = bad. In this one, I gether it's racism = bad, and/or intolerant religion = bad. I kind of respect the first one more, though. It's a lot more artistically gutsy to present a failed libertarian utopia (especially as popular as libertarianism is amongst many these days) than to present a failed racist/bigot utopia (ooh, real gutsy to criticize racism, guys!). But again, subtle these games aren't.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[anss123]

I almost skipped Bioshock since I heard it was similar to SS2. Obviously I don't like System Shock 2 :)

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Looker_Device]

Man, I hate checkpoint systems. *Why* do developers keep that old system around? It was perfectly understandable back in the days when there was very limited system memory available to maintain saves, especially on consoles. But we left that era behind 15 years ago, yet developers still keep it around. Their nostalgia for the old ways has me wanting to throw my controller at the wall every time I have to replay through a whole level just to get to the ONE PART that I'm having trouble with--OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Not only that, but, as you mentioned, a save anywhere system let's you experiment and have fun a lot more--trying different approaches to situations.

And the WORST offender is the game that not only has checkpoints, but only one save slot to boot (Dead Rising, I'm looking in your direction). Get caught at a checkpoint in bad shape and you could easily end up having to replay through the *whole game*.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Looker_Device]

I suspect that Bioshock Infinite, Crysis 3, and a lot of other recent games will be ported to the PS4/Xbox-Durango not long after launch. Of course, they'll slap a "Special Super-Duper Edition" label on them so we consolers will get the privilege of paying for them all over again.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[PhxBlue]

... all religion then took a hard right into weird cult ...

How do you tell the difference?

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[qwak23]

One is culturally acceptable, the other is not? Only difference as far as I can tell.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Sporkinum]

Agree with you on most every point. Graphics could have been nicer, however, it plays great on my system which is pretty old. 2.13ghz Core 2 duo, slightly OC'ed nvidia 9600 gso with 768mb, 1280x1024. It ran so smoothly at default medium, I bumped it up to high and still runs great.
I did like the the damp, dark setting for Bioshock better... so far that is.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Sigg3.net]

2 other games? Isn't this the 5th?
System Shock, System Shock II, BioShock, BioShock 2, BioShock: Infinite.

Re:I've been playing it since yesterday.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because some of the same people who worked on System Shock went to work on Bioshock, which is a spiritual successor and a vastly inferior game.

Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Now give us real gamers what we actually want, a new System Shock game.

BioShock and BioShock 2 were utter crap. Betting this one is going to be the same.

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no company left that could ever create a system shock sequel that wasn't pure crap and a giant cashgrab without a care for quality.

I give you bioshock as proof. bioshock 2. bioshock 3. what? infinite? whatever...

They just don't make them anymore like that sonny... Hand made hand crafted quality that still today stands up as one of the best games of all time hands down. Detail at a level we have not seen before or since in the shooter scene. A story that could go forever. And fast fun action and actually scary fights.

-
Look at you, hacker: a pathetic creature of meat and bone, panting and sweating as you run through my corridors. How can you challenge a perfect, immortal machine?
-
Are you afraid? What is it you fear? The end of your trivial existence? When the history of my glory is written, your species shall only be a footnote to my magnificence.
-
You move like an insect. You think like an insect. You ARE an insect. There is another who can serve my purpose. Take care not to fall too far out of my favor... patience is not characteristic of a goddess.
-
Remember, it is my will that guided you here. It is my will that gave you your cybernetic implants, the only beauty in that meat you call a body. If you value that meat... you will do as I tell you.
-
You travel within the glory of my memories, insect. I can feel your fear as you tread the endless expanse of my mind. Make yourself comfortable... before long I will decorate my home with your carcass.
-
You are no longer welcome here, nuisance. Why do you stay, when you sense my displeasure? I have suffered your company long enough. It is time for our dance to end.
-
The process shall not take long. If it sounds unpleasant to you, put your mind at ease, insect. You will not survive to see my new world order.
-
Your flesh is an insult to the perfection of the digital.
-
Prepare to join your species in extinction.
--

Re:Cool

[wonkey_monkey]

Hey, you're that guy! Hey everyone, it's that guy! You know, the one who has the only opinion worth anything!

Where've you been, man? Got a lot of people needing your help...

Re:Cool

[Raenex]

This smacks of first-experience nostalgia that nothing could ever live up to.

Re:Cool

[Hal_Porter]

I always liked this

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/System_Shock#William_Bedford_Diego

"It does not stop at a mere single mutation. The form I have been promised is more beautiful than even that. They tell me I will float through the air and strike at the foes of our biomass with my mind! With our mind... my cup runneth over!"

It's even better with the voice change mid way through just before the change from "my mind" to "our mind".

Re:Cool

[Steauengeglase]

I didn't play it until a few years ago, maybe 2 or 3, but the game stood up (along with Thief and Thief 2, also games I didn't get to until long after their respective studios were closed/bought out). Looking Glass/Irrational, either by design or happy fluke, really did create a few classics.

Granted these games aren't for everyone. They aren't pretty (though the sound design is awesome) and they aren't action titles. They are slow moving examinations of tension in games.

Re:Cool

[Raenex]

I'll have to check it out. Still, that doesn't make the sequels "pure crap and a giant cashgrab without a care for quality.", just more mainstream. The quality artwork, nifty story elements, and attention to detail is what I liked most about the original BioShock.

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

You're that kid born in the 90s who has only been gaming for a couple years and only on consoles. You're not a real gamer. Go back to CoD.

Re:Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

You are not a gamer until you have played system shock 2.

It is one of the high points of gaming. Maybe many of the best ever done in a single package.

Re:Cool

[Raenex]

All right, so I picked up System Shock 2 and have gotten through most of the way. I stand by my original response to the poster -- way too much fan nostalgia here.

From what I've read on Wikipedia, many of the elements that were novel in this game made it into others, and I can see many of the same fingerprints in BioShock. And what you say is true, there is a lot of tension, as the game really makes you scrounge for resources and the enemies are tough. So yes, it's a classic. But that doesn't mean that other games that came after are shit just because they don't follow the exact same mold.

Given a choice, a find BioShock to be a better and more fun game. Too much frustration in System Shock 2. Too much stuff to micro-manage. If weapons didn't degrade and implants didn't require constant recharging I'd be a lot less frustrated, along with some configurable hotkeys for psi spells.

Doesn't run on Windows XP

[Pentium100]

Oh well, I'll play it when I upgrade my PC.

Do you like the idea of killing racists?

[Molochi]

If not you're probably going to hate it.

RE: Crysis

[Molochi]

Well yeah, even Oblivion looked shitty on a 360. We're what, 3 generations down the line now for Videocards?

This

[Molochi]

There are a couple of games I'd pay to see just remade with modern graphics. SS would be one.

Ultimate answer? Yeah, right...

[wonkey_monkey]

It’s the ultimate answer to the question of whether art or technology is the most important part of creating a visually excellent game

Oh, yeah? Ultimate answer you say? So that's all decided now and no-one need every argue over it again?

Except of course that the answer appears to be "Hmm, yeah, kinda both."

There's another new Shock - more or less

[Jesus_666]

And if you're too much of a hipster to touch anything with "Bioshock" in the name, this is the perfect time to go to GOG, buy System Shock 2 and patch it with the latest SS2Tool. If you haven't played it for a while you might not know that half a year ago someone has actually produced a new version of the engine out of thin air, which seems to fix a lot of the crashing issues, adds compatibility with muticore systems, enables antialiasing, uses OpenAL to enable EAX-like effects etc.

With that and the SHMUP, SHTUP, Rebirth and Tacticool mods installed the game feels quite a bit more modern, even if there are a few blurry old textures left in the game. Plus, apparently it does't crash at the drop of a hat anymore. The only noticeable downside is that existing mod managers aren't supported; these days you dump all mod files in one of two override folders and manage them yourself. Perhaps someone will write a new one, though.

(Note: In case you want to patch the GOG release with SS2Tool 5.0: Delete the "gog.ico" file first; otherwise the SS2Tool installer will use compatibility code that isn't compatible with GOG's latest release. SS2Tool 5.1 is expected to fix this but hasn't been released yet. )

I am aware that this is somewhat off topic but seeing that until yesterday I had never heard about the engine update it might stand to reason that other Shock fans might be interested.

Re:There's another new Shock - more or less

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd call it on-topic. System Shock had very good inventory and complex skill mechanics for its time, and significant background plot with multiple ways to play. Both were surprisingly similar at their best, juggling diminishing resources and complex options and dramatic character revelation. I particularly enjoyed that many of the System Shock and System Shock 2 voices, and bios, were based on people from MIT that I happened to know. from the Studen tInformation Processing Board there, on the 5th floor of the Student Center.

Tried it last night ...

[Lazy Jones]

Short summary: it's a typical way too easy, hand-holding, felt 50% cinematic sequences (fortunately no "mash X button" sequences like Far Cry 3), non-interactive world (scattered books that can't be looked at, NPCs that can't be interacted with => bland, boring environment) adventure built around a FPS that feels like a 10-15 years old XBox game (I'd place it near or below Fable 1 in complexity/gameplay, or to be a little harsh, close to Doom). It apparently impressed reviewers with its big flying city and extreme detail in the wrong places (those you just run through in the beginning).

Scripting

[Anonymous Coward]

One thing I was worried about from the gameplay videos and no one ever mentions in reviews is the scripting, it has grown completely out of hand in recent games with obnoxious scripting and handholding ruining games like Tomb Raider for me, so for anyone interested this game is only gently scripted and gives you lots of room to do your own thing and set your own pace, which is great.

My biggest complaint is that it's far too easy even on hard because you have regenerating shields and instant respawn, I'm thinking about restarting with the code for 1999 mode because right now it mostly feels like a sightseeing game with some light shooting elements in it rather than a proper shooter, also I'm hating the two weapon limit, it's very annoying and feels so arbitrary since you can have all the vigors.

bioshock without the bio or much shock

[Anonymous Coward]

Lots of mass slaughter (more opponents simultaneously) and no sign yet of any child-murder to advance the player.

Final plot explanations about some parallel universe stuff that will have many players shrugging their shoulders (plot you saw 3 times last week on old TV reruns.)

Usual beta test release quality.

Issue about checkpoint saves (no manual save)

Fantasy world running on pixie dust or unicorn pharts as far as the physics/engineering goes (alleged 1912 that steampunkers would be embarassed about being absurd)

No XP support

distracting player prompts endlessly on hud interface

Player Agency?

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole point of Bioshock was that the player HAS NO AGENCY IN ANY VIDEOGAME EVER. The only real "choice" the player has is to play or to not play. Bioshock's weakest moments are after the big reveal when the game continues on like every other videogame pretending you've made a decision (to assist Tenenbaum) immediately discarding it's central thesis point and ultimately concluding with a hollow, videogamey, completely undeserved ending. If Infinite is finally moving on from the canard that is "Player Agency" then all the better for it.

Lies

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm, No.. I just played BioShock just 2 weeks ago from the orginal DVD (that I purchased). It certianaly had DRM, but there is no Steam.

wtf?

[rsilvergun]

"Preset to High, get 40+ fps at 1080p with a i7-920 (3.2ghz) and a Nvidia 460."

Did I miss something? The PS3/XBox 360 can't even compare to your rig. Why are you not getting 60+ fps?

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because the Bioshock Infinite: Lite Edition that is on the consoles looks like ass with super low resolution textures, 720p, no anti aliasing, bad lighting and framerate stutter. That's why.

If he were to crank down his setting to match what the PS3 and Xbox versions look like, he'd be getting a few hundred fps.

Re:wtf?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Preset to High, get 40+ fps at 1080p with a i7-920 (3.2ghz) and a Nvidia 460."

Did I miss something? The PS3/XBox 360 can't even compare to your rig. Why are you not getting 60+ fps?

yeh that is ridiculously poor. my i7 and gtx460, 16gb ram, 1920x1080 on Ultra runs flawlessly

2 sucks

[rsilvergun]

but 1 was amazing as long as you stop playing after the guy's monologue. It's pretty frickin' clear that's where the game was suppose to end...

Re:2 sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

It was amazing as long as you stop playing after the prologue. It was kind of neat swimming through the firey waters to the lighthouse and going to Rapture. After that it sucks.

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Gameplay on HD 4870

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey guys. I've recorded a gameplay of Bioshock Infinity one of the first mission for the contest. http://youtu.be/hh3Zi46lXWk
Its in Polish but maybe some of you would like to watch it if you havent played yet. Its medium details 720p PC version.
Hope you enjoy it