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North Korea Declares a State of War
paysonwelch writes "North Korea has declared a state of war against South Korea, stating that neither peace nor war has ended. Quoting the news release via Reuters: '1. From this moment, the north-south relations will be put at the state of war and all the issues arousing between the north and the south will be dealt with according to the wartime regulations.' The DPRK goes on to say that this will be a 'blitz' war and that they will regain control of the south, and destroy U.S. bases in the process."
Great line from the declaration: "[The U.S.] should clearly know that in the era of Marshal Kim Jong Un, the greatest-ever commander, all things are different from what they used to be in the past." A senior U.S. official called this statement "pot-banging and chest-thumping." The official said, "North Korea is in a mindset of war, but North Korea is not going to war."
IIRC, North Korea has declared war on the South multiple times since the armistice. In short, it's nothing new.
NK has had particularly bad farm yields and has trouble feeding it's army - recently China returned 12 NK soldiers that tried to escape. In years past, this wouldn't have happened as NK was keen to always make sure the Army got food but rations were cut last year. It needs an increase in foreign aid to hold itself up. That's what all this sword rattling is about. I hope that everyone lets them drop.
You know you're seriously off the rails when you start provoking the planet's grand champions at killing people and breaking things and Russia and China are telling you to calm down.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
It seems to me that the North Korean leadership has just spent all of its rhetorical ammo. If the next thing out of Kim's mouth isn't a launch code and an authorization to launch a nuclear tipped missile he's just ruined his credibility. And North Korea does not even have a nuclear tipped missile.
This is very dangerous, because this means that at some time before the next time Kim wants to blackmail South Korea and the US he is going to have to use enough force that his threats will regain credibility. I don't think there will be a major war, but I think a minor exchange of fire, at least, is inevitable at some point in the not too distant future if Kim wants to stay in power.
I wonder what his generals and other top officials in Pyongyang are whispering to one another when he can't hear. I guess the time to stage a coup without looking like total traitors would be a couple of months after this blows over.
Can someone explain to me what it is that gives such a small country that has comparably weak military (they are ranked number 28 in the world according to http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.asp) and pretty much zero chance of surviving a week in a real war the balls to be so dickish and war-hungry?
It keeps working.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Japan decided to go to war against its largest trading partner in the 1930's. Germany did the same against it largest trading partner during the same era. Sometimes people deciding to start a war don't really care about trade relationships or economic damage that might come from a full scale war.
Actually, in the '00s, Bush tore up the Agreed Framework negotiated by Carter, under which NK received regular food and fuel aid in exchange for placing their nuclear weapons program under international inspection. "Axis of Evil", he said. "No more blackmail", he said. So NK ripped the UN inspector's seals of their uranium, built a nuke, and detonated it. Bush came running back, and now the crazy Norks are still demanding food and fuel aid while rattling their sabres, but their sabre is nuclear.
Heckuvajob, Bushie!
Anyone who loves or hates any language, platform, or manufacturer, doesn't know what they're talking about.
That doesn't seem useful.
Kim Jong Un knows that the US can kill him at any time, Kim Jong Un also knows that the North Korean military leadership can kill him at any time. He has to appease both, which he does by rattling the saber enough to please the military and not quite enough to make the US really angry.
Obama isn't bending, so North Korea is losing face. The only thing they can do to regain face is a military victory. In the past this has involved attacking ships and shelling islands. Let's not kid ourselves, while a war with North Korea is unlikely, they still might kill people just up to the point where the US and SK would respond.
Sounds like you are describing the inverted dictatorship in EU, next year. And the US in the next 5.
They have a dictatorship of a Family. You have one of a Bank.
Big whooping difference.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Obama isn't bending, so North Korea is losing face. The only thing they can do to regain face is a military victory. In the past this has involved attacking ships and shelling islands. Let's not kid ourselves, while a war with North Korea is unlikely, they still might kill people just up to the point where the US and SK would respond.
Saw an editorial yesterday that said what might be different this time is that Junior is inexperienced at how the game is played, and might think actually starting some sh*t is a good idea.
Millions of people stand to get killed - Seoul is targetted by a *huge* collection of conventional artillery - but if he thinks there's any outcome that won't leave him as a smoking hole in the ground, he's delu...
Uh-oh, the world's in trouble.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
And 11 million lives in Seoul that are pretty much forfeit in under 5 minutes when the shelling starts. No profit for Haliburton and other Contractors if all that's left is a smoking hole in the ground. Read up on the Korean DMZ, then you'll see exactly why te USMIC doesn't want to touch this. And exactly why they DIDN'T touch it under Bush and his warmonger cronies when they had clear evidence that N Korea was seeking Nuclear Capability.
Sure, getting out of the country would be easy, but what are the odds that commanders #2 through #9 will happily roll over and accept #1's sudden rise to dominance? Any disruption in the line of succession will destabilize the balance of power within the government, and the fallout could cost a whole lot of innocent people their lives. Would you want that on your conscience? Provoking international action on the other hand might seem like a relatively clean solution - any invasion would likely start with a tactical strike against the military elite. And knowing that, the generals might well be willing to accept voluntary banishment with all the severance package they can plunder if faced with an actual invasion.
Of course any such invasion would require the cooperation of China to avoid ballooning onto the global stage, which has been why they've been in such a comfortable position for so long. If China's getting tired of their antics though then that protective umbrella is rapidly fading, and all that remains is for they and the US to agree on what the new government should look like and how many puppets each of them get in it. The other regional powers might have some voice as well if only as a moderating influence - i.e. China might prefer that a couple puppets answer to Japan rather than directly to the US in order to diffuse our influence.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
I'm calling bullshit. What possible (non-conspiracy theory related) reason could the US have for provoking a war with North Korea? What would we stand to gain? Obama has already been re-elected, the economy isn't doing great but also isn't awful, there's no oil involved, and the US public is already war-weary and has little stomach for another one.
I think the overwhelming majority of Americans just want NK to shut up and stop aggravating the situation...
Many hardcore lefties who have the tribal, partisan mentality of "My side good, other side bad," will keep blaming Bush for whatever is bad until there is another high enough profile Republican to blame, probably another president.
Same shit you see now from the righties. Obama has suddenly become the new favourite target for everything bad. Clinton was the favourite but now it is Obama. He's the newest, most powerful "other guy" so they dump all the bad shit at his feet.
Unfortunately, many humans are still very tribalistic and you see it in how they relate to politics. Their tribe, whatever they identify that as, are the good guys, the other tribe is the bad guys and thus all the bad things are the other guys fault.
North Vietnam defeated a South Vietnam that had the American military removed from it along with any foreign aid to help South Vietnam able to pay for its army... and a North Vietnam reinforced by Russian equipment and foreign aid.
It took North Vietnamese tanks and massive infantry formations to conquer Saigon.... it wasn't just a "popular uprising" of the South Vietnamese people like is sometimes portrayed.
Had the U.S. Congress really wanted to win in Vietnam, they could have appropriated the money, sent the necessary soldiers, and given a blank check to the U.S. President at the time (Richard Nixon... somebody Congress really wanted to get rid of at the time) with a formal declaration of war. That never happened, thus your logic really fails here.
America abandoned South Vietnam and let that country go away in defeat, but America was not really "defeated" in Vietnam. It was just another front in the Cold War from an American perspective.