French Intelligence Agency Forces Removal of Wikipedia Entry

saibot834 writes "The French domestic intelligence agency DCRI has forced a Wikipedia administrator to delete an article about a local military base. The administrator, who is also the president of Wikimédia France, has been threatened by the agency with immediate reprisals after his initial refusal to comply. Following a discussion on the administrator's noticeboard, the article (which is said to violate a law on the secrecy of the national defense) has been reinstated by a foreign user. Prior to pressuring the admin, DCRI contacted the Wikimedia Foundation (WMF), which refused to remove the article. WMF claimed the article only contained publicly available information, in accordance with Wikipedia's verifiability policy. While the consequences for Wikimedia's community remain unclear, one thing is certain: The military base article – now available in English – will get more public awareness than ever before."

Comments

Great test case

[jbolden]

This is a terrific test case on secrecy laws. No one violated laws, no one is using secret information. All the proper people were notified and there was a clear cut request / order and a clear cut refusal to comply. At the same time this is military information. This is just about the perfect test case.

Re:Great test case

[DanielRavenNest]

And in a wonderful example of self-reference, this Slashdot article is referenced in the Wikipedia article.

Le effect Streissand.

[serviscope_minor]

I wonder what that French agency which likes to create French words instead of using ones derived from other languages will coin to name the Streissand effect.

Re:Le effect Streissand.

[K. S. Kyosuke]

If they can't spell "London" correctly, why would they bother with "Streisand"?

Re:Le effect Streissand.

[pla]

Let's imagine (crazy idea, I know) that their goal is the application of local law... they certainly know that this will create unwanted attention in the short run, but maybe that's a sacrifice they're willing to make to have wikimedia comply with local law?

Welcome to the Internet, France. Wiki ain't local. Suck it.

That said - This article has pretty much nothing of interest in it except maybe a tiny bit of cold war trivia only of interest to the most die-hard "must know everything" historians. That, therefore, makes me suspect this base's official purpose as a cover for something much, much more interesting. Thanks, France, for drawing attention to this!

Re:Le effect Streissand.

[JakeBurn]

Ah, valid criticisms. Those I like. Such as pointing out that only the worst type of loser chooses to check the box 'Post Anonymously'. If you have an opinion, speak it. Being afraid of judgment from people you have never or will never meet shows an extreme lack of self esteem. Type out your opinions like an ADULT and be done with it.

"smart-assed immature punks' are the people who honestly think anyone gives a damn about spelling mistakes on the internet. Should I berate you endlessly for not putting a comma between miserable and worthless as you should have? It would be a waste of both our times and we both know it. Adult only references a person's age, not their ability to not act like a know-it-all piece of shit who feels that everyone should be grateful at being corrected on a matter they care nothing about. Save us the shame of knowing about your neurotic tendencies and keep them to yourself.

Re:Le effect Streissand.

[BarfooTheSecond]

That said - This article has pretty much nothing of interest...

In this case you're probably right, however one shouldn't forget that intelligence job is to gather tiny bits of information that might look of no interest to average people to reconstruct schemes in contexts that are of interest to them (and other intelligence services). It's a profession.

It is the same problematic as with Facebook lambda users for example who say "Due, I don't publish very private information about myself there, so what, and who cares...", when you warn them about their privacy. They simply ignore there are specialists out there, how powerful data mining systems are and how they are capable of spotting, linking and gathering tiny elements of information where themselves just see nothing.

I just want to say that intelligence agencies know what is sensible or of interest to them and what is not. We, outsiders, don't.

But sure they got a Streisand effect here...

Re:Le effect Streissand.

[MDMurphy]

Effet Pierre-sur-Haute

Might as well make it local.

Re:Le effect Streissand.

[Solandri]

There's an apocryphal story that after the end of the Cold War, some members of the CIA and KGB got together for dinner and a chat. The CIA folks complained about how difficult it had been to get information out of the USSR. All the border checks, the security, the secrecy, the restrictions on freedom were so difficult to overcome. They lamented how much easier it must've been for the KGB folks to conduct espionage.

The KGB folks said that on the contrary, it was actually harder for them. Yes they had an easier time acquiring and extracting information from the U.S. But it was mixed in with an ocean of conspiracy theories, entertainment, hoaxes, marketing exaggerations, gossip, etc. Separating the signal from the noise was a daunting and sometimes impossible task. They couldn't be sure if a report of a new top secret plasma energy canon was real, or if it was just someone spilling the plot of a new sci-fi movie secretly being produced. And they had to waste a tremendous amount of resources vetting out stories in the National Enquirer in case they were true.

Obscurity isn't the only way to enhance security. Seems to me something like wikipedia, where anonymous people all over the world can edit entries, would be a great way to sow misinformation.

compromised, fullstop.

[marcello_dl]

You don't need to devour spy novels or watch 007 all night long to understand one simple aspect of the story (as reported in the summary, at least): once news about X leak out, X is to be considered COMPROMISED.

In this case it is blatant. Something that shouldn't have been there is available? assume the bad guys got it, if it is important, STFU if it's not important.

So, this move from the French secret service is muscle flexing, or counterintelligence (making people concentrate on a decoy), or a way to make openness and free exchange of information look contrary to national interests.

It is not a way to increase national security.

Re:compromised, fullstop.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the important part of the wiki article (English version) is that it mentions nuclear attack orders may be relayed through the station and that there are four others, with additional wiki links to those stations.

Too easy...

[rmdingler]

You can certainly understand the collective French nervousness regarding military secrets. Look what happened when that Maginot thing got out.

The French article had ZERO hits ... until now

[David Gerard]

Let me show you something: page view statistics from the last 90 days.

The article had ZERO hits for months ... until yesterday.

Re:The French article had ZERO hits ... until now

[zAPPzAPP]

Which means, no one else knew about it!
Finally Slashdot is delivering real news!

Submitter here

[saibot834]

In this case the problem was not that Wikipedia was centralized. The Wikimedia Foundation in the US did not comply with the agency's demands.

The problem was that the administrator's real name was publicly known (he's a public figure and it's his username) so that they were able to find someone under French jurisdiction. Most admins and non-admins use pseudonyms and are thus immune to real-life pressure.

All in all, I'd say the system worked. The admin had to give in to the immense pressure, but he was sensible enough to publicly announce what he did, thus enabling foreign users to reinstate the article. Now, the really threatening cases are those with gag orders, such as given by US intelligence agencies.

Could have been worse

[dbIII]

Could have been worse like another time in New Zealand - at least they didn't sink Wikipedia's boat and kill their photographer.

Re:Military intelligence

[roman_mir]

I think someone in the French military got their panties in a wad about nothing...

- careful, it's France. You don't insult the panties that the French military is brandishing without suffering a severe ... retreat.

ALL YOUR BASE

[dutchwhizzman]

ARE BELONG TO US!