Canadian Official Escorted From House For Others' Facebook Comments

New submitter zayyd writes "The CBC reports that publicly-elected Gerry Rogers, member of the Provincial Government for Newfoundland and Labrador, 'has been removed from the house of assembly for refusing to apologize for comments made by other users on a Facebook group of which she had been added to as a member.' Rogers was unwillingly added to a Facebook Group which included comments of death threats aimed at Premier Kathy Dunderdale from other users. From the article: 'Dunderdale said her government understands how Facebook groups work, and she said it is up to every MHA to monitor the comments posted on Facebook groups to which they belong.' Facebook's policies for Groups are somewhat clear, even if they don't actually answer the question of 'Can I prevent people from adding me to a new group?'"

Comments

Oh Canada...

[DoofusOfDeath]

You just seem more insane year after year. I wonder if there will be a day when Canadians gripe that they're on the verge of moving to the U.S.

Re:Oh Canada...

[ebno-10db]

The whole problem with overdone nationalism is that everybody wants to claim his country is worse than the other guy's.

Re:Oh Canada...

[Vanderhoth]

I think we get more American politics up here than Canadian. Harper makes sure no one talks to the press here so there's never anything to report unless it's something good concerning the conservatives or bad concerning the opposition. The liberals just elected a new head on Monday, the first I heard about it was from a conservative attack ad Monday night, and there's still two years until the next federal election.

They sure don't waste anytime.

Re:Oh Canada...

[Dixie_Flatline]

There are plenty of things different between Canadians and Americans, and I'm not just talking about toques and hockey.

There are plenty of ways that we're the same, too, but I don't get into arguments with my Canadian friends about restricting firearms. There's a lot less discussion of whether or not abortion is something that should be left up to a woman or who should pay for healthcare. The set of 'Canadian values' is different, it's just not so different that when you see the average American talk to the average Canadian that these things come out.

Americans almost certainly don't deserve the vitriol that they occasionally get from Canadians (except for your dickbag border guards--what's WITH those guys?) and when push comes to shove, we're there. On 9/11, diverted planes landed at Canadian airports, and Canadians drove out to offer accommodations for the passengers that were stuck there. I was still in University, and basically every class had an announcement that we should go give blood. And we did.

I'm pretty sure Canadians don't think Americans are any dumber than AMERICANS do. We just have the benefit of distance.

Re:Oh Canada...

[realityimpaired]

To be fair, it's Newfoundland. They're kind of like our version of Alabama. Sheep be very nervous on the rock...

While I agree that our politicians need to pull their heads out of their asses on a whole host of issues, and that our current federal government has, in 8 years, very successfully destroyed the reputation that we spent 100 years building, we're hardly the only nation that's doing stupid shit with Facebook. And actually, a lot of what little privacy you actually have on Facebook is a result of our legislators...

Re:Oh Canada...

[realityimpaired]

No, I am not exaggerating. True, it's not always that bad. But in some cases it is.

Years ago it was. If you need something for a life-threatening condition, you'll have it fairly quickly. Even if it's not a life-threatening condition, you'll still have it fairly quickly these days.

I've had a handful of surgeries in my life, and have never needed to wait more than 4 months for it, without leaving the country. And that 4 month wait was because there's only one surgeon in the country who's licensed to perform that particular procedure (there's only 4 in the US who could do it, too, so don't start telling me that it'd have been faster in the US: it wouldn't). The reason some people have longer waitlists than that is that they want a specific doctor, or are not willing to travel beyond a specific hospital (even if there's another hospital in the same greater metropolitan area that does the same surgery). If you don't ask if there's another surgeon available with a shorter waitlist, you might think the timeline that they tell you is actually real.

On rare occasions a minor surgery may be bumped because of a life threatening situation coming up (happened for my knee surgery), but I was put on a cancellation list and had the surgery a week later. The cancellation list is, itself, another part of the reason that some people think they can't get surgery: I had 1 day of notice for the knee surgery the 2nd time around... the hospital called me at 4pm on a Wednesday, and said "can you be here tomorrow at 8am?". If folks aren't willing to adjust their schedules like that, then they can leave with the perception that they can't get treatment, even though the treatment is available to them, they're just not willing to work with the system.

In rural cases, it can be a bit worse, but there's still plenty of hospitals available if you're willing to travel a couple of hours. We have some *extremely* rural areas where you're 6 hours by helicopter away from the nearest hospital, but most of the population isn't anywhere near that distant.

Re:Oh Canada...

[qzzpjs]

I agree that media might play into our Canadian perceptions of the U.S. in that we have the benefit of getting news from non-US sources. Granted they're mainly Canadian, but they're not so tied to Democrat or Republican parties so they are less biased in either direction and give use fuller coverage.

We can see how people are unaware of facts on either side of debates because the news they watch is biased and never gives opposing view points or opposing facts. We can see how religion is trying to push itself into your government, laws, and education even though your constitution specifically tried to separate it. We see how you screw the poor in your country by denying minimum wages for people who end up having to work 20 hours a day just to survive. And we can see the stupidity of how much money America wastes on things like the military given that no other 15 countries in the world could possibly be a threat! And we see how you're constantly involving yourself in other countries politics in order to push your interests which causes them to dislike you.

And now, your U.S. Senate just passed a bill preventing the signing of a NATO international gun control treaty because it could prevent U.S. citizens from selling weapons to your own enemies! The only other countries that didn't sign were Iran, N Korea, and Syria which makes you just as bad as them. How can we NOT consider that stupid??

I'm not saying we don't have our own issues and have the same problems seeing them in our media, but it's usually internal to our country and doesn't affect the entire world.

Re:Oh Canada...

[Capt.DrumkenBum]

I am a proud Canadian. I am not proud of my youngest sister. She is a total bitch and should pay her debts. This debt is as a result of her choices.
But any system where someone can suffer a relatively minor injury, (Broken ribs, and a punctured lung.) and be financially crippled by it for the next 10 years is seriously fucked up! Yet American people somehow continue to defend this system. The Canadian system is not perfect, but it mostly works and doesn't bankrupt people.

Re:Oh Canada...

[vux984]

Actually, free movement and all, if I were in my 20's living in Canada, I'd move to the US,

Not as easy to get a green card as you'd think. I know a couples who have transferred south husband was in embedded programming and the wife (a professional radiologist in Canada was unable to get a green card to work at all, never mind in her field, in the states for several years) -- they didn't expect it would be that tough. The pay raise and lower taxes didn't account for much since she couldn't work, his employer at least offered health care though, which was at least good.

because I would bet that I would not likely need medical care.

And that bet on medical care isn't all that great. A family member broke his leg skiing a few weeks ago, that'd be enough to royally screw him over stateside. Between surgery, a couple custom carbon fiber casts, physio, and going on 4+ months of not being able to work... yeah.

You can bet you won't need medical care, but that's a bet you can lose. A broken leg is pretty minor and the cost is in the 10s of thousands... what if it had been a spinal injury instead?

What happens if you lose the bet?

THEN when I started to get older and sicker, move back to Canada for all the free healthcare I never had to pay for.

Yep, that's sounds like planned abuse of the system to me.

And now, you know why Socialism doesn't work unless everyone is forced into it.

Canada should simply deny you re-entry to the country unless you are paid-up with respect to your accumulated share of health care costs. Citizenship isn't free. If you'd like to visit get a VISA and if you stay longer than that we'll deport you back where you came from.

Honestly I think that's the direction things will eventually take, and there are already rumblings in that direction as people absolutely are out looking to abuse the system in unsustainable ways.

And that is not freedom.

Forcing socialized medicine is no more or less free then forcing socialized public works like police, fire, roads, pollution controls, parks, schools.

I personally think the type of "freedom" you seem to long for is not as good as its cracked up to be. There's a few places in Africa and South America that should be free enough for you though... none of them places I'd want to live.

And we're glad of it.

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

"Well!" think half the other MPs, "Thank god I don't even know how to use a computer."

Facebook knows

[c]

No doubt there's something in her Facebook activity history indicating whether she joined herself or was added by someone else. That should be all the proof she needs.

Re:Facebook knows

[Derekloffin]

Even if she is lying and did join herself (something I seriously doubt), this is NOT the way it should be handled. This is the equivalent of guilty until proven innocent for someone else's crime. It is disgraceful. Oh, and gives me yet another reason to never join facebook.

Re:Facebook knows

[coldfarnorth]

Or seek elected office in Canada?

That doesn't seem like a good system

[PhamNguyen]

She was removed for "contempt", for refusing to apologize. This seems like a misuse of that kind of procedure. Contempt should be for, for example, swearing at another politician in the chambers. Being able to remove elected politicians on such a slim pretext is very dangerous to democracy.

Proper form of apology

[Attila Dimedici]

The proper form that the apology should have taken is this, "I am sorry that anyone was offended because someone added me to a Facebook Group that included tasteless comments, comments that may constitute illegal threats of violence, made by someone else. I do not condone such language."

Re:Proper form of apology

[Anonymous Coward]

I absolutely never ever apologize for something I did not do or for something that is not my fault.

But then again, I am not Canadian.

guilty by association...

[schlachter]

I guess if they want to burn you in politics, they will find a way...no matter how ass backwards.

Re:Article Not Clear

[Tridus]

Building. It's a common form of enforcement of House rules.

The obvious solution:

[LihTox]

Add Kathy Dunderdale and her allies to as many unseemly Facebook groups as possible.

Re:The obvious solution:

[pla]

Add Kathy Dunderdale and her allies to as many unseemly Facebook groups as possible.

Already starting, this should get amusing fast.

Ms. Dunderdale, you've made it clear that "it is up to every MHA to monitor the comments posted on Facebook groups to which they belong" - So why haven't you denounced your fellow members of such hate groups as "Mothers Against Sober Driving", "Nazi Party of Canada", and "The Vatican" yet?

In Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Apologizing is serious business.

Re:In Canada

[ArcadeMan]

And we apologize for that, too.

Meanwhlie, nobody in Canada cares

[Tridus]

Speaking as a Canadian... yawn. This is not getting much attention in Canada. It's just a couple of parties in a provincial legislature finding something new to bicker about. The same sort of thing happened last week in New Brunswick over who called someone a "witch" first, so they could determine who had to retract it (they had to go back to video of the session to answer that one). This one just happens to involve Facebook, and so it's sexy to some media.

What happened is entirely routine. Someone was involved in something that goes against the decorum of the legislature, someone else complained. They wouldn't apologize, so they were tossed out of the building for the day. They leave the FB group and the whole thing goes away. Almost nobody outside the legislature gives a damn, except to point out that it's not a terribly professional or productive environment if this is taking up significant time.

If the same thing had happened only not involving Facebook, the story would not be posted here. Politics is absurd on either side of the border, only people outside Canada don't see the local variety of "absurd" very often. Today you get to.

And yet..

[Anonymous Coward]

..nobody had been removed for the outright lies and slander of the various political attack ads that have been running in Canada. Apparently you can only be removed for something you didn't do or say.

Queue Passive Aggressive FB Apology...

[DarthVain]

"I'm sorry that Kathy Dunderdale, the Premier of Newfoundland and Labrador, does not understand how basic technology such as social media works. I am also sorry that her office makes knee jerk decisions based on bad information and do not take the time to validate facts before making unwarranted demands. I am sorry that Newfoundland and Labrador has such an inept government, though I am pleased that they were able to solve all the other pressing issues and problems before proceeding on this most important issue."

Oh, Dunderdale...

[Runefox]

Living in Newfoundland myself, I've been hearing non-stop about her exploits as premier lately. It seems she's bat-shit crazy - That is, moreso than the rest of us. Among some of the other things she's tried to do have been to seal public spending records to make it impossible to see what the province is doing with its money, slashing education budgets, aggressive politics, compulsive lying and just generally being a slimeball.

Her predecessor (from the same political party - the provincial equivalent to the Conservative party) fought tooth and nail against the Harper government, even going so far as to recommend voting against him, but she regularly rolls out the red carpet and kisses ass whenever the prime minister and his cronies are around. It's obvious that like most of our premiers, she only wants to get in good with the federal government so that she can move up to a position there, and really has no other concerns than that. Her tactics are almost identical to the Harper government, to boot.

Sad thing is, this keeps happening because people here vote based on their voting history, not their actual ideals or which party would do the best job.