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Bitfloor Indefinitely Suspends Bitcoin Trading

PerformanceDude writes "Bitfloor (a New York-based online exchange for Bitcoin) yesterday made the following announcement on their website: I am sorry to announce that due to circumstances outside of our control BitFloor must cease all trading operations indefinitely. Unfortunately, our US bank account is scheduled to be closed and we can no longer provide the same level of USD deposits and withdrawals as we have in the past. As such, I have made the decision to halt operations and return all funds. Over the next days we will be working with all clients to ensure that everyone receives their funds. Please be patient as we process your request. Roman — bitfloor.com" According to the company's Twitter account, money should be returned to users' bank accounts shortly.

25 of 291 comments (clear)

  1. A likely story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sounds like the govenrment finally decided they didn't like money outside their control.

    1. Re:A likely story by travdaddy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sounds like the govenrment finally decided they didn't like money outside their control.

      Sounds to me like they were a US company not following already existing US Anti-Money Laundering regulations.

      --
      Adidas To Bring Back Sneakernet
    2. Re:A likely story by localman57 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Sounds like the govenrment finally decided they didn't like money outside their control.

      Maybe. Or maybe their bank just wasn't comfortable with them. Where I work we sometimes will pass on working with potential customers just because we get a bad business feel for them. Whatever bank they're dealing with may not want to risk being negatively associated in the press with any of a variety of bad things that could potentially happen with this bitcoin exchange if they aren't an important enough customer to justify that risk.

      The other thing I think is interesting is the degree to which this matters. The whole point of bitcoin is that it is supposed to be some independent currency. But it seems to rise and fall an awful lot depending on the degree to which you can exchange it for dollars. Which would tend to indicate that it does require backing at some level from dollars.

    3. Re:A likely story by rmstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The regulators requires that money laundering is kept in check.

      Which, frankly, is a good thing.

      BitCoin prevents that and therefore, among other reasons, it will become increasingly difficult to exchange bitcoin and the established currencies.

      Maybe, maybe not.

      To be freely tradable this kind of financial product (let's stop that ridiculous "currency" bullshit) requires some type of legal framework that isn't available. If it ever gets it, you could trade bitcoins as easily as shares. But as it stands, and aside from money laundring issues, you could as well prosecute bitcoin trading on the grounds that it is illegal gambling.

      Of course, a sound legal framework for bitcoins would most likely make them pointless.

    4. Re:A likely story by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 5, Informative

      How would money laundering provide tax evasion? The point of money laundering is to convert dirty money (e.g. money gained from selling drugs, gambling, bankruptcy fraud) into clean money that you're "supposed" to have. Clean money by its nature is taxed.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    5. Re:A likely story by Sperbels · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And when an upstanding rich American citizen puts his money in a tax haven, he's merely investing overseas...putting his hard earned money to work for me. When the not so rich people do it, it's tax evasion. Gotta love this country.

    6. Re:A likely story by Begemot · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Same happened in Israel 2 weeks ago - all accounts of bitcoin exchange companies were closed until further notice. They didn't even give them a chance to return funds to their customers.

    7. Re:A likely story by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It would be interesting to see how many people don't want bitcoin to be "controlled" by governments through legal avenues, but at the same time would want the law enforcement agencies to investigate any cases where bitcoin exchanges disappear overnight with their clients "funds"...

    8. Re:A likely story by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Disney dollars are not real currency, they are coupons.

      Try to get disney to convert them back to USD for you.

    9. Re:A likely story by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you still end up holding the cash you had in the first place with no good explanation of why you had that wealth...

      There are plenty of reasons to be holding cash that you didn't pay tax on. For instance:

      1. Set up a shell corporation in a tax haven (e.g. The Cayman Islands).
      2. Transfer your IP assets (patents, copyrights, trademarks) to this corporation.
      3. Pay a license fee to this corporation for the use of that IP. Make sure the amount of the fee matches your profits.
      4. Pay no income tax, because you have no profit.
      5. Borrow the money back from the shell corp. Loans are not considered income and are not taxable.
      6. Life a nice life while going deeper and deeper into debt to yourself .
      7. Eventually you die, and all the debts are cancelled.

      Of course, this is not tax evasion because it is perfectly legal.

    10. Re:A likely story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      1. Set up a shell corporation in a tax haven (e.g. The Cayman Islands).
      2. Transfer your IP assets (patents, copyrights, trademarks) to this corporation.
      3. Pay a license fee to this corporation for the use of that IP. Make sure the amount of the fee matches your profits.
      4. Pay no income tax, because you have no profit.
      5. Borrow the money back from the shell corp. Loans are not considered income and are not taxable.
      6. Life a nice life while going deeper and deeper into debt to yourself .
      7. Eventually you die, and all the debts are cancelled.

      Of course, this is not tax evasion because it is perfectly legal.

      This is not true. See IRS Form 5471. The rules are exceptionally complex, even by the standards of US tax law, but in general a US person cannot control a foreign investment corporation (such as your Cayman shell corp) and not pay tax on its income, because its income is US income (income from licensing the IP in the US). Loans from a controlled company back into the US to the controller can be considered distributions of income in some circumstances, such as these.

      Note - what Google et al are doing in its Irish/Bermuda company is accumulating foreign (non-US) income from intellectual property. This is different.

  2. Clearly this is the work of... by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 4, Funny

    >> US bank account is scheduled to be closed

    Clearly this is the work of the Illuminati Lizard People.

    1. Re:Clearly this is the work of... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Lizard People

      We prefer "Reptilian-American", thank you.

  3. Down to $90 already, how low can it go? by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bitcoin is already down to $90, where is that $1000 bitcoin troll at now?

    Money has to at least be a short term store of value. If bread costs twice as much in the evening as it does in the morning no one will want your currency. Bitcoin is not doing well on that front. I am sure all the early folks are cashing out now and laughing all the way to the bank though.

    1. Re:Down to $90 already, how low can it go? by alexgieg · · Score: 4, Informative

      Bitcoin is already down to $90, where is that $1000 bitcoin troll at now?

      $1000? If the Bitcoin theory becomes true some day in the future (a huge if) and it were to replace national currencies for the entire world (an even huger if), it might end up valued at more than $3.4 million each (at 2013 valuation). The math is simple. Current global GDP is about $72 trillion, BTCs are capped at about 21 million, hence $72 trillion / 21 million BTC ~= $3.4 million per BTC at cap time. If this were today then people would use it at 6 decimal places (microBTCs) as the day to day currency, equivalent to about $3.40, and the maximum divisibility of 8 places, equivalent to about ~$0.034, as the corresponding "cents", said valuations adjusting upwards (in terms of purchasing power) at roughly 4% per year accompanying the increase in global GDP.

      I doubt any of that'll happen though. For one, governments don't want monetary power outside their hands. For another, most economists around are convinced ("convinced" as in "I believe in it from the bottom of my heart!" and "My preferred theorist said so and his equations are so pretty and I have tons of faith in him!") that deflation is evil. And third, drugs, porn, drugs, weapons, drugs, tax, drugs, pedophilia, and won't anyone please think of the children!?

      --
      Conservatism: (n.) love of the existing evils. Liberalism: (n.) desire to substitute new evils for the existing ones.
    2. Re:Down to $90 already, how low can it go? by dkleinsc · · Score: 5, Informative

      For another, most economists around are convinced ... that deflation is evil.

      Those egghead economists have several good reasons to think that deflation is a problem:
      1. It strongly encourages everyone to stuff their money in the mattress rather than spend it. This may seem like a great idea, but without people buying stuff, nobody is needed to make stuff, which means people lose their jobs, so they buy even less, and so on.

      2. It means that anyone who is saving is more likely to stuff the money in the mattress than they are to invest it. For example, if cash is gaining value at 1.5% a year, you're less likely to take the risk on an investment with 4% return than you will if cash is losing value at 1.5% a year. Which again causes people to lose their jobs, so they buy less, so others lose their jobs, so they buy less, and so on.

      3. Bank lending would grind to a halt, for two reasons: First, banks have to add the deflation into the interest rates of any loans, to account for their opportunity cost compared to just keeping onto the money. Second, borrowers know that they have to repay the loan using progressively more and more valuable dollars, and are rightly concerned that this is a really bad idea.

      4. Behavioral research suggests that wages and prices do not deflate as they should - workers have a strong resistance to taking what appears to be wage cuts every year, and businesses have a strong resistance to showing what appears to be lower profits on the same product.

      5. People, businesses, and governments who are currently borrowing money get crushed, because their debt becomes progressively more pricey to pay off. That's exactly the problem that was motivating the bimetalism movement back in the 1890's, after the dollar was in deflation for about 2 decades.

      It's not just equations: There are several historical examples of deflation, and many of the theorized problems with deflation have in fact turned up.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  4. Blanks. Fill them in. by CuteSteveJobs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > Unfortunately, our US bank account is scheduled to be closed and we can no longer provide the same level of USD deposits and withdrawals as we have in the past.

    Is it me or is that the most understated sentence ever written?

    1. Re:Blanks. Fill them in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Well in fairness to them, it sounds a lot better than "we decided to hop on the bitcoin-ponzi-scheme bandwagon and it bit us in the ass."

  5. You Answered It Yourself by eldavojohn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bitcoin is already down to $90, where is that $1000 bitcoin troll at now? ... [all the early folks are] cashing out now and laughing all the way to the bank though.

    Sounds like you just answered your own question.

    --
    My work here is dung.
  6. Re:And so it begins by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is no conspiracy here. No one cares about this toy money. They broke already existing federal anti-laundering laws so this happened. They could have followed the law and been able to stay open.

  7. Re:Why? by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's is the story here?

    This is Slashdot: The story is "bitcoin something something".

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  8. Re:So when is Slashdot by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Never. Why on earth would it? Crypto-currencies are a fascinating concept and Bitcoin is one of the greatest experiments ever. Whether it ultimately succeeds or fails is irrelevant, it will be written into the history books forever.

    --
    You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
  9. Re:Why? by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm not in a position to judge. So let me speculate based upon my own prejudices and stupidity.

    What this obviously proves is that THE MAN hates freedom and is hating Bitcoins so has leaned on the bank (though didn't need to be because the bank IS THE MAN too) to close down Bitcoins which are totally a legitimate currency because you can exchange CPU cycles for Bitcoins which is much better than the dollar because the dollar can be made to hyperinflate by printing more although it doesn't whereas Bitcoins never have inflation because they're based on CPU cycles and its just its success that means it keeps oscillating between $50 and $200 every few months. This is simply another case where the MAFIAA are trying to shut us down because we threaten their business model by selling things that have value because they're products of really big prime numbers which everyone knows are totally worth thousands of dollars.

    (c) 50% of Slashdot posters.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  10. Re:Bubble by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Informative

    The higher the volatility the lower the returns

    Surprisingly, no. It can be a great way to make a lot of money.

    Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging, and then do some basic scenarios. The key thing is that if there's a lot of oscillating between two extremes, then putting the same amount of money into an investment vehicle over a period of time will result in fairly substantial growth of your account - even if, on average, the vehicle itself never gains value.

    The system works because when you put in the same amount of cash (rather than buy the same number of securities) basic math is working in your favor. Put $1000 when Bitcoins are worth $200, and when the price collapses to $50, that part of your investment is worth $250 - a $750 loss.

    However, put $1000 in when they're $50, and when the price rises to $200, that part of your investment is worth $4000, a $3000 gain. If you're putting the same amount of money in at intervals unrelated to the rise and fall of the currency, then on average, you should have as many "$1000 at $200s" as you have "$1000 at $50s".

    Of course, the algorithm wouldn't be useful unless you're in the black most of the time even when the currency isn't at its extremes. If you assume that usually it'll float around the $125 range (half way between $50 and $200), then the loss on the $1000@$200 investments will be $375, and the gains on the $1000@$50 "only" look like $1500. You're still making more than 100% return at that rate.

    This is a fairly normal investment scheme FWIW and is part of the logic behind most pension systems. Of course, the stock market doesn't fluctuate anything like as much as Bitcoins do. On the other hand, very few people believe that the stock market will ever collapse entirely.

    The danger with this scheme is that there's no guarantee Bitcoins aren't going to permanently collapse, and that would cause your investment to be wiped out. I'm not going to do it in large part for that reason. The amounts involved to make this useful are much higher than I'm willing to bet at the moment.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  11. Re: Bubble by ultranova · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem here is that unlike stocks, there is absolutely ZERO value in a bitcoin. It represents exactly nothing of value. Stocks at least have a book value and a P/E Ratio of the company behind the stock. Bitcoins are backed by nothing.

    Bitcoins are backed by the utility of being able to send them between people without having to deal with any third parties. They present the value of everything that can be bought with Bitcoins; as that set is slowly growing, so is the value of Bitcoin. It's a classic network effect.

    To bet on Bitcoin is to bet that PayPal, Visa, and banks will continue screwing their customers, which seems like a pretty safe bet.

    --

    Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.