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Will Future Tesla Cars Use Metal-Air Batteries?
thecarchik writes "Most advocates and industry analysts expect lithium-ion batteries to dominate electric-car energy storage for the rest of this decade. But is Tesla Motors planning to add a new type of battery to increase the range of its electric cars? Tesla has filed for eight separate patents on uses of metal-air battery technology (for example, #20120041625). The metals covered for use in the metal-air battery are aluminum, iron, lithium, magnesium, vanadium, and zinc. Metal-air batteries, which slowly consume their anodes to give off energy, hit the news last month when Israeli startup Phinergy demonstrated its prototype battery and let reporters drive a test vehicle fitted with the energy-storage device. Mounted in a subcompact demonstration car, Phinergy's aluminum-air battery provides 1,000 miles of range, it said, and requires refills of distilled water (which acts as electrolyte in the cells) about every 200 miles."
1,000 miles of range, it said, and requires refills of distilled water about every 200 miles.
My car has a range of 6000 miles. That is how often I have to stop to change the motor oil. Of course, I also have to stop every 300 miles to get some gas.
We will buy it....in droves.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Metal-air batteries don't even pretend to be rechargables.
The little ones(most notably the zinc-air coin cells that pharmacies stock, heavily overpriced, in areas where gullible old people with hearing aids might find them) you just throw away.
The bigger ones are either a 'send back to factory' arrangement or a 'the anodes are an FRU' arrangement.
Metal-air batteries don't even pretend to be rechargables.
Right. Remember, primary batteries have higher energy densities than rechargable batteries. An electric car loaded up with non-rechargeable lithium batteries would have a range over twice what it has with rechargeables. Then the batteries would have to be replaced.
Someone might do this for a race car. As a production product, not too useful.
I looked up the recycling efficiency of Aluminum in this case and found it was about 15%. This is worse efficiency than the lowest number you see for an Gas Engine. So using something like this for day to day usage seems out of the question.
But with the right packaging it might be a decent range extender in addition to a Lithium main battery pack.
Internal combustion engines are only 13% efficient. "The total fuel efficiency during the cycle process in Al/air electric vehicles (EVs) can be 15% (present stage) or 20% (projected), comparable to that of internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs) (13%). " See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium%E2%80%93air_battery
the pi and the arduino are any indication, the new Tesla vehicles will be made entirely of metal-air batteries. the user will interface with the radio using ruby, and the turnsignals will be excreted in realtime by a makerbot.
Good people go to bed earlier.
They can't.
The Lotus Elise is no more.
They will buy it, but seeing is believing
Do you think air batteries could become vapor ware?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
First of all, the MPG (miles per gallon) quoted for combustion engines consuming standard gasoline or diesel gasoline are stated for the amount of miles driven per gallon of fuel expended.
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The "gallon of water" expended is not the consumible fuel, but part of the solvent required to dissolve the metal which serves as the consumible fuel. So you're comparing apples and oranges, or to use a car analogy, you're comparing a consumible fuel (gasoline) to a solvent (distilled water) rather than comparing it to the cost of the dissolved metal electrode lost (the consumed electrode is the fuel).
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So to get a real cost comparison, you'd have to know how many miles (M) you'll get out of the battery and what the replacement cost of the battery is (B), and add it to the cost of the "demineralized" distilled water that will have to be added until the battery needs to be replaced (will that be 100 "fill ups" or 267 fill ups and how many gallons will it be?) Say you need G gallons, and distilled water costs D per gallon. So now your miles are M, and your total cost (not counting oil, repairs, and whatnot) is B + G*D.
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So your cost per mile is M \div (B + G*D). The IRS allows you to deduct about 0.555 dollars per mile for business use, so say that a car costs in toto 55.5 cents per mile. Say you've got a car that gets 30 MPG nowadays, and gas is just under $4 per gallon. You're paying 13.33 cents per mile in consumible fuel costs for that gas combustion engine. (So the IRS is guessing that the rest of the cost for running your car [insurance, maintenance, oil changes, etc] is about 40 cents per mile). Can your electric car really come in under that cost? Tesla wants to charge $15000 for a 60kwh battery that may (only "may") last 6 or eight years. What's the replacement electrode and battery cost for this thing? When there are concrete numbers out there, then it's viability or utility can be calculated.
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But you can't just count the cost of the distilled water or calculate a miles per gallon of distilled water when the distilled water alone is NOT the consumible fuel component!
Posting AC to preserve mods... ICEs are considerably better than 13%. And you don't have to throw them away after 1000 miles...
Several years ago I read that IBM set up a team on researching Metal Air Battery ... lemme search the link ... ah, found it
http://researcher.watson.ibm.com/researcher/view_project.php?id=3203
The project started around 2009
Unfortunately there is no news on the Metal Air Battery project from IBM
If you have any info regarding the latest development(s), would you kindly share with us here?
Thanks !!
A link to another startup that is researching Metal Air battery --- http://gigaom.com/2013/03/01/fluidic-shows-a-peek-of-its-metal-air-batteries-for-off-and-on-the-grid/
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
If only it were possible to edit comments.
Here's the key, and definative patent for air-metal batteries using a liquid electrolyte. Notice the date on that sucker.
XML is a known as a key material required to create SMD: Software of Mass Destruction
(Hand waving wildly) Me me me me me!!!
I don't need that sort of expense any more often than I absolutely have to replace it because it is worn out, and costing me more in repairs than the new one would cost in car payments. The 2005 WRX finally got sold last year, and replaced by the 2012 WRX. I loved the 2005 WRX, and if it wasn't lunching things like the power steering pump ($525, plus $300 installation), timing belt and rollers at 210,000 miles ($1300), radiator ($400), and other stuff, I'd still have it.
The current car has an early start toward getting replaced early, tho. The power steering rack went west, developing a leak, which would have cost $1200 outside the warranty, but $100 inside the warranty - it should have been free but Subaru was all sideways about my having used the car in a road rally - which is really just normal driving down the roads on a Sunday afternoon - but they tried to use it as a get out of jail free card. Also have had the brake light switch go west - don't know how much that would have cost to get fixed, and now the Steering Wheel Angle Sensor is fried, causing the stability control function and the "hill holder" function to fail. Since it's outside the warranty now, those functions will be forever silent, because I'm not paying the $700 or so cost of buying a new sensor and having it replaced. Don't think I'll be keeping this car as long as the 2005.
How many people keep a car for more than 6 years?
Anyone who's not a consumerist snob or travelling salesman? Here in the UK, a lot of people do less than 5,000 miles a year, so 10 years is a more than reasonable life expectancy. Most people don't buy a new car every 2 or 3 years, there's no real need apart from showing off to the neighbours your new registration.
If you're doing 30,000 miles a year and can't afford a Mercedes, then you have a point.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it