Slashdot Mirror
The Coming War Against Personal Photography and Video
Lauren Weinstein writes "Are you ready for the imagery war — the war against personal photography and capturing of video? You'd better be. 'In some cities, like New York, the surveillance-industrial complex has its fangs deeply into government for the big bucks. It's there we heard the Police Commissioner — just hours ago, really — claim that "privacy is off the table." And of course, there's the rise of wearable cameras and microphones by law enforcement, generally bringing praise from people who assume they will reduce police misconduct, but also dangerously ignoring a host of critical questions. Will officers be able to choose when the video is running? How will the video be protected from tampering? How long will it be archived? Can it be demanded by courts? ... All of this and more is the gung-ho, government surveillance side of the equation. But what about the personal photography and video side? What of individual or corporate use of these technologies in public and private spaces? Will the same politicians promoting government surveillance in all its glory take a similar stance toward nongovernmental applications? Writing already on the wall suggests not. Inklings of the battles to come are already visible, if you know where to look."
then there will never be a short supply of witnesses to any potential police misconduct, nowadays cameras and microphones can be hidden in clothing so nobody knows its there, maybe even networked so it is recorded and watched live on the internet in realtime continuously
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
so many questions and not any answers - the article serves just as a flamewar starter and has little point in it.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Google Glass will mean all data gets uploaded to Google servers for ease of download by law enforcement and forced wipes where police officers are in the wrong.
Guess slashdot is "thinking of the children".
Fuck systemd. Fuck Redhat. Fuck Soylent, too. Wait, scratch the last one.
A police officer's testimony is all that is needed for most convictions. Adding a microphone and camera is sort of redundant. Police have eyes, ears, and memory. I think privacy supporters would be better served by highlighting abuse of surveillance cameras. Forget hypothetical and talk about real things.
Will police still be let off the hook for confiscating the cameras of citizens that film them, even though it is 100% legal in nearly every state?
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Hideki!
The ubiquity of smartphones has made it impossible.
then there will never be a short supply of witnesses to any potential police misconduct
Like in Russia, where misconduct by the authorities has been eliminated due to the fact that everyone has a dashcam?
He interviews suspects with a tape recorder on the table. Then he writes his report. And then purposely erases the tape. So its his testimony and not the tape thats admitted into evidence. I suspect this will be used just like that.
Is this astroturf? Who is Lauren Weinstein and why does he get to submit his own blog post to the front page of slashdot? The post reads like a mediocre comment to be found in a slashdot forum -- i wouldn't expect it to be modded more than +1.
I really think the google glass "OMG people are recording me!" hysteria and demand for legal policy action to govern their use is overblown.
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something, and if your behavior (or potential behavior) is too creepy, society avoids or shuns you.
Since smartphones became ubiquitous, yes, you can sit down at a restaurant with someone and ignore them, instead fiddling with your phone. We call such people boors, and do not invite them to dinner again.
Bluetooth headsets are great for carrying on phone conversations when it would be difficult (or dangerous) to hold the phone up to your ear. I use mine when driving, or when I'm working and would like to be able to type while I'm talking. However, if you show up to a party wearing your bluetooth headset, people will think you are a douchebag, and will not invite you to another party.
The same thing will happen with google glass. I posted a month ago about how I'd like a pair just to display instructions/schematics while I'm working on a project, or to record myself while I disassemble something in case I can't figure out how to put it back together later. However, I don't think I would wear them at all times. I would only wear them when I have a real need for the additional display/record abilities for work or hobby.
Society will solve the problem by itself. When your friend shows up to your party wearing his stupid Glass headset, call him a douchebag and tell him to take it off. When you're out to dinner with somebody and they put on their headset, tell them, "Hey, take those off and talk to me, not look at furry porn on your stupid glasses." People generally don't want others to feel uncomfortable around them. When most people would feel uncomfortable talking to someone wearing such a headset, they will get the message and take the stupid things off when it's inappropriate to wear them.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
David Brin's settings in his novels Earth and Kiln People included ubiquitous surveillance, and it was a primary topic in his nonfiction work, The Transparent Society.
This "coming war" is just the birthing pains of the kind of society he predicts, wherein everyone wears cameras akin to Google Glass, the government records and monitors video everywhere, and privacy is a luxury available only to the wealthy and/or the criminal classes. (Not much of a distinction between the two anymore...)
I can see the fnords!
FYI, in Russia even buying anything resembling *hidden* camera may easily get you into jail. There were several cases of guys buying stuff like a camera hidden inside pen and getting several years of jailtime for it. As of dashcams, which are legal because they don't qualify as hidden cameras, while far from eliminating police corruption, they DO help in some cases against corrupt policement, and that's one of the reasons why they're so popular.
The current trend is clear. The politicians think government surveillance of people is good but not the reverse. That is why you can get tossed in jail for recording police misconduct. Notice the crack down on government whistle blowers even ones that report misconduct. Homeland security locked down a major metropolitan area to catch one criminal and the people cheered. Large numbers of people still believe that additional surveillance will make them safer. You can count on more surveillance, less privacy, and more restrictions on the use of personal recording devices. That is the trend until attitudes change.
Cars are not as nearly as ubiquitious and portable as people, by definition.
...and leave. There are many places in the world where these problems don't exist. Most of them are about a 30 minute drive east of where you live now.
you've stayed in a city that's growing -- in density. that includes people, companies, buildings, as well as laws, cameras, crime, and traffic, and pollution, and dirt, and homeless, and tax.
30 minutes east, you'll find the number of people that your city had thirty years ago. you'll find even fewer cameras. you'll find that the city's laws don't exist or aren't enforced. you'll find plenty of internet, movies, groceries, neighbours, schools, hospitals, and -- get this -- roads. you'll find much less traffic. you'll find your mortgage less than half of what it was, and your home twice as big. you'll find less competition for jobs, less expensive service for everything, and even gas will be 3% cheaper (I haven't figured out why though).
and you can still always drive back into the city in 30 minutes. oh yeah, and the train is express, and is likely faster than your current commute anyway.
enjoy sharing your city life with a few million people and those who regulate them. life's a lot better with 95% fewer humans. you get more life.
Why would you think that you have some sort of right to privacy ?
It seems politicians are particularly prone to being crooks. Maybe we should make that mandatory for them ? Also, civil servants, since we pay their wages ?
so many questions and not any answers - the article serves just as a flamewar starter and has little point in it.
Which drives traffic and ad revenue. Do all of us have ad block? And what about the Slashvertisments that are immune to ad-block?
Do we really want to read this stuff? Or stay?
Does anyone really know?
Do you?
Is this one of the most idiotic posts that you have ever seen on Slashdot?
If not what?
Wow, countless times I've mentioned how thanks to video, photography, credit cards, radio signal and etc... how we don't have privacy any more. Everytime a bunch of hard core privacy freaks looses there lids and has a tyraid about how I'm wrong and how I should shut the fuck up, well now that the NYC Police Commissioner has said the same thing how about people realize PRIVACY IS DEAD!.
When I see the first person with google glasses, I am going to build IR anti-photography system for my face....
There is two parts of this situation that the article does not mention. First is Terrorism, One problem photographers have had since 9/11 is getting branded a "terrorist" for taking pictures. This is because our government does not have a text-book way to spot a terrorist, so in order to appease the public they have said that Photography of things not "normally" photographed (Trains, Transit, Bridges & Structures) must mean the person is planning some ill against them. The real fact of the matter is any potential terrorist found to date has been found by more conventional investigation methods (open for another debate), and not by individuals expressing constitutional rights to photograph in public spaces. The Second is the police and other government officials to a lesser extent do not like being photographed in the course of duty. They would much prefer to have everything happen behind closed doors so there is no accountability, someone taking a picture, compromises this and often leads to a case where they have to become accountable for some action or situation, a position they would rather not be in. So often, #1 is used to disguise #2 and their problem is solved and "the people are safe".
Where does everyone think all this footage is going? or who is it exactly that is going to give a shit about it. You can already spend 2-3 nights watching youtube videos that would have caused an armed rebellion 200 years ago. Getting footage of the state putting its boot on your face (forever) is going to mean precisely squat. The people that care that this stuff is happening already know about it, and the people that don't care, aren't going to care tomorrow either. No matter what footage they see.
I strongly support having the right to record your interactions with other people. I was falsely accused of beating my ex-wife as a divorce tactic (luckily the police didn't find her credible the first time). The first time the police recording of her 911 call helped keep me out of jail when it was obvious that I wasn't beating or threatening her during the call as she claimed (this automatically gives custody btw).
The second incident involved an exchange of our son at a park where she again claimed that I beat her. When the sheriff called me up to ask me about it I was able to respond with the simple question "what's your email address?". That recording saved my ass from losing my child and going to jail. In both events she later showed up to law enforcement covered in bruises that she claimed I gave her. Needless to say when that went to family court it was me pressing the matter and not her.
I then had another incident where I had to take out an order for protection against my child's mother. When talking to the police detective for the other city the detective threatened me twice during our phone call. Once was an open threat, the other was a threat of false prosecution to the court. I proceeding the execute the order for protection even with the open threats hanging over my head, but you had better believe the recording is now locked up at my lawyers office.
This is three times where recordings that I privately made were critical for legal fights. I pissed off the GAL making the recordings, but a man falsely accused of hitting a woman is typically prosecuted and loses any kids that they have. Ironically in the first two cases it was different police departments that told me I needed to record every encounter for my own protection. The third case was a different department that was ethically challenged. Two good police departments and encounters where they did the right thing, the third was with a corrupt policewoman. You can't count on encountering good cops and have to be able to protect yourself.
-1 Flamebait Title
The coming war? The second paragraph of the article contradicts the title. Against Personal Photography and Video? The first two-thirds of the summary talks about surveillance by the authorities.
-1 Blog posting written like TV news
The author (who is also the submitter, promoting his own blog as a slashdot story) writes in a voice that mimics a TV news personality, asking lots of questions, sometimes answering them, sometimes forgetting to answer them, blusters a lot but doesn't provide any new information.
-1 Blog post makes many expansive claims but does not cite any sources
The author claims there are plans and laws and pushes and a whole lot of other things without citing any sources. It's like listening to the guy at the bar grumbling about how the government's coming for his guns.
-1 Even the author's wikipedia page is sketchy
The wikipedia page for Lauren Weinstein points out it "includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations."
-1 Author says the sky is falling, offers no solutions
Near the end of the blog posting, he says "I don't have a 'magic wand' solution for this situation." In other words, an "OMG! Cameras are everywhere! I don't know what to do about it!" blog post is worthy of consideration by the slashdot masses?
Are you ready for the imagery war
Shouldn't that be Are you ready for the imaginary war?
Just because the police (or the lamp post) will be video taping things doesn't mean we can't. In fact, the proliferation of cameras actually removes the police's position that they don't think they should be recorded doing their jobs. If they have cameras on every street corner the police will be watched on every street corner.
It won't take much to get the feeds from all those cameras. The "lowest bidder" approach is rampant in municipal money wasting and security is an extra cost that the vendors aren't going to pay for. When the feeds get compromised they'll just throw up their hands and claim it was Anonymous.
Any police officer halfway competent at abusing his power would use a similar trick to get rid of any 'official' recording. He'd forget to turn the camera on, or damage the memory card at the end of the shift. He could also get past any victim's recording quite easily, by either confiscating the camera or using threats and intimidation to get them to hand over the memory card, and his boss's would (and are) lobby for laws banning recording on-duty officers to avoid scandal.
To use camera to fight corruption, I think two things are required:
1. The victim must be able to record events without the knowledge of the police officer. That means no whipping out the mobile phone or camera, or even wearing glasses with an obvious camera function.
2. There must be a means to use this video against the officer, allowing for the fact that he may be backed up by the rest of his department and by court officials and politicians reluctant to cast their system in doubt. The only means I see for this would be going public: If the video of the officer clearly breaking the law is put on youtube and sent to every media outlet, the public outrage would be so great that those above the officer would have no choice but to fire him to save their own skin.
Even then you still have to deal with possible retaliation: Reveal one officer abusing his power, and his co-workers will avenge him by trashing your house in an aggressive search following an 'anonymous' tip-off about a drug dealer operating from that address.
While the author has some good points, she also has his tinfoil adjusted just a bit to tightly... because while he rails against the [big, bad, ebil] gub'ment, and the [equally big, bad, and ebil] survelliance-industrial "complex" (he really hits all the buzzwords and hot buttons nicely I must admit)... Pretty much nowhere does he actually address or provide much (if anything) of support to the nominal thesis of the piece.
So this pretty much seems to be a chance for him to get hits and 'net cred by namechecking the Boston bombings, and since it's a slow news day and nothing else has come along... for Slashdot to get it's daily Two Minute Hate.
From what I've read, the Russian police are corrupt to the point that even if you managed to reveal one to be corrupt, his friends would just arrest you on false charges for something else. The court system is little more than a rubber 'guilty' stamp.
Yes. The point is that people aren't thinking about some of the laws/rules/implementations where the police use recording extensively, and harass others using recording. The practices deserve greater scrutiny, and starting flame wars about it spreads awareness.
Learn to love Alaska
A jury might give a shit about it. Video evidence is some of the most convincing evidence there is. Ubiquitous cameras won't stop an angry cop from stomping your face in, but a hidden camera that he doesn't know about might help you sue the city for hundreds of thousands afterword and prevent you from rotting in prison for years on trumped up "cover charges" afterward.
I wouldn't have an "assault and battery against a police officer" on my record now if I had had a recording of the event that showed how the cop just made everything up in his story. It's hard to prove that you didn't do something while the camera was turned off but a video that shows an entirely different sequence of events from those in the official police report is simply gold and will tend to sway a jury away from their natural where-there-is-smoke-there-is-fire prejudice against you and in favor of the cop.
I think requiring the police to have video evidence of their probable cause/reasonable suspicion or of the alleged crime itself before they can even legally make an arrest would do a great deal to control police violence against the public. Basically it should be assumed that anything a cop says is a lie until/unless proven otherwise on video. Currently we have the reverse situation where police are assumed to be 100% perfect law-abiding angels until/unless a video demonstrates otherwise. This is why most cops hate video.
Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
I wouldn't be suprised if the gov't was somehow behind the attacks in boston, or allowed them to happen,
so that they could further their agenda of this unconstitutional surveillance.
Whats a few lives lost, just collateral, in their war against privacy.
Its a tiny percentage of the population. From a business perpective, thats an incredible return on investment.
Lose a few citizens, to secure ur control over millions.
They want all ur information. They want to steal ur ideas, insight into your patterns, so that they can make more intelligent decisions to keep you in chains.
Again, i wouldnt be suprised, if the gov't was somehow behind 9/11 or let it happen, to further their global,
and domestic agendas.
Corporations support this, and wouldnt be suprised if they are the source. Since Corporations are the puppet masters.
Dont let corps/gov't take ur privacy and information.
They will only use it against you.
Assuming (falsely) that this is to be used for anti-terror purposes only (which it obviously isn't); there is only a very limited benefit.
Mostly in catching the alleged perpetrators after an incident, but not beforehand.
So you are giving up privacy, not for security, but for "justice".
Security would remain the same or get even worse.
Footage in gov't or corporate possession can be manipulated, and then it would be up to the defendant to prove that its not.
A war on terror, is an excuse to allow the government todo watever it wants.
And if there really is a problem with terrorists, than they have won.
They have effectively reduced your freedoms, by setting off a few bombs.
There is no benefit to the average person, but a false sense of confidence.
Ppl need to fight this.
HasHie @ trypnet.net
The Rodney King beating was taped with a video camera you could not have fit in a shoebox. Now, of course, you can do decent video with a camera you can hide in your hand.
There are certain minima to the light-collecting-spot enforced by the laws of optics, of course, but it seems clear that the police will soon not be able to tell whether they are being video'd or just watched. Glasses? They'll look like shirt buttons. And folks who know in advance the location of the police action (say, protestors) will be able to carpet an area with cameras that are very hard to spot.
A lot of cameras will just be running all the time, pointing in four directions from every bicycle helmet and car, for use in accident investigations. Anything that happens in front of any place of business will be on the private anti-theft video cameras of the business - this is all already true, but in a decade or so, it won't be a few businesses, a few cars, a few cyclists, it'll routinely be everybody.
A certain amount of the "war on photography" is about police pushing back against people *visibly* trying to intimidate them by sticking cameras in their faces; police do NOT like to be in any position but domineering control of a volatile situation - a big part of their training - so they push back hard when pushed, challenged, mocked in any way. Obeying the law is secondary to Controlling The Situation. (I have some sympathy there; it's basic human psychology that this keeps them safer; never back down before a crowd.) But people invisibly photographing them - well, what are they going to do, arrest everybody in sight of any stop-and-frisk and demand they all be subjected to some kind of wanding that will find all six cameras about their person? Police routinely get away with high-handed, illegal behaviour with one or two people who get in their face, but there are limits.
Nope, I think its a lost cause. Anything that happens in public sight will presumably be recorded, multiple times, more or less *automatically*, in a matter of years.
It won't take much to get the feeds from all those cameras.
It doesn't work that way. Take for instance the "terrorist" in the UK a few years ago that got run down and shot in the back of the head repeatedly. Mysteriously all of the cameras (that the uk is known for) in the area were "not working" that day. It took someone weeks of soul searching (probably hoping to collect one last paycheck) for someone to come forward and admit that the cops were lying.
Are you really going to pin your hopes and dreams on the idea that someone in your local government is going to be as honest when its your life on the line?
Are you really going to pin your hopes and dreams on the idea that someone in your local government is going to be as honest when its your life on the line?
This is America. We have enough hackers and anarchists (hacknarchists?) in every city that the video feeds will be hacked long before the police sacrifice their next victim for the sake of public education.
Mod parent up, please. It pretty much sums up what anyone needs to know about TFA.
That sounds like a great strategy to kill Google Glass: register the domain PedoGlass.com and post fully legal videos of children taken in public places: the beach, on the way to school, making out etc. complete with time and exact location they were recorded. There's no expectation of privacy in public places, right ? Add a bunch of degenerate-looking comments complementing the kids on their looks, offers to meet up, but nothing illegal. Claim videos are recorded using Google Glass. You are on Oprah in less than a week.
It pretty much guarantees anyone caught wearing a pair of Pedo Glasses around children (i.e. everywhere) will have them beaten off their face. I love how it turns "thinking of the children" working against the police state, for a change.
How is the US any different. Take something simple like a traffic ticket. You were going 53 in a 55 and get pulled over and a ticket for 65 in a 55. The cop goes to court and claims that you were going 65 in a 55. You will be convicted. Short of video proof demonstrating your innocence, you will be convicted on nothing but the word of a cop. Sure, murder is harder to prove on the word of a single cop, but 10 cops could get a conviction if the accused didn't have proof they didn't do it (O.J. Simpson excluded).
Learn to love Alaska
Some nitwit in Vermont wants to make it illegal to photograph anyone without explicit consent (except for government surveillence, obviously)
It's illegal and severely punishable to photograph a police officer in the UK if that officer thinks it could be used for terrorism (guess who gets to make the decision on that one...)
Just a few weeks ago, a California man was brutalliy beaten by thugs-in-uniform claming that his phone was a "weapon" (because it said so on teh intarnetz!!)
In Montreal, a woman was recently arrested for taking a photo of graffiti, the claim being that it's publication on Instagram was tantamount to harrassment (note that she was not the vandal, she only took a photo
After being told to stop over a loudspeaker (in super-creepy Orwellian fasion), a photographer was forcefully arrested for taking pictures on a Metro rail in Miami
You need only browse Photography is Not a Crime for 2 minutes before you realize that this war is already happening. There's a metric shit-ton of this stuff going on, with video evidence to back it up.
As for your rhetorical questions...
Yes. Obviously.
How will the video be protected from tampering?
It won't.
How long will it be archived?
Not long enough.
Can it be demanded by courts?
Well sure, but you'll find that every time it does, the video stream is "conveniently" missing or corrupted.
Stop asking questions citizen, you're not supposed to be creative, just shut up and watch the Dumb Bimbos of Retard Valley.
With population growth and security issues... privacy will someday be a thing of the past, and the concept of 'hiding' things will be taboo. For those who would defend privacy to the death, what do you have to hide?
Never say never. Ah!! I did it again!
I suggest you see what is happening and has happened for the last few years by visiting http://photographyisnotacrime.com/. It's amazing what police try to, and get away with.
Do unto them what they do to you.
The important thing doing so is: on and off the job, i.e. 24/7.
Police and politicians will not have private lives anymore if you don't.
And publish publish publish soon and often -- even the most dull and
humdrum.
Don't allow them to hang you -- hang together.
I don't know about where you live but around here it is extremely rare, like almost unheard of, for anyone to get stopped for doing less than 10mph over the limit. I've blown through speed traps at 15 or so over many times. The only places they are really strict on is construction sites and school zones. The local sheriff is very popular and remains so by providing excellent protection while basically ignoring traffic violators unless they just get stupid. His deputies are busy patrolling businesses and residential areas to prevent burglaries and he's been doing that for over 40 years. No one bothers to even run against him.
Welcome to the USSA: United Surveilance States of America. Any name similarity to another totalitarian empire claiming to be a federation of democratic states is purely coincidental.
Dash cams are popular in Russia because insurance is cheaper if you have one, their popularity has nothing to do with cops.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
No, Chii. That's Lauren Weinstein.
Fuck. Michael "1%er" Bloomberg is talking about reinterpreting what the constitution really says to match his world vision.
You better wake up bitches, we're living in a police state today.
Must be an USA thing they have a war against anything nowdays...
Not necessarily. My son, a notorious speeder in his early twenties, racked up so many tickets he was very likely to lose his license, if not go to jail (the last was for drag racing.) He must have had 8 or more tickets, all way over the speed limit, in a relatively short period of time. What did he do? Go to court for each one, made whatever argument made sense to him at the time, and ended up with only 1 ticket sticking. A few times the police didn't bother showing up in court and that's an automatic off the hook kind of thing. This wasn't but a few years ago either so you can fight city hall if you want to. And some do succeed.
I'd like to propose two changes to how we talk about pretty much everything.
1) No more use of the phrase XXX-industrial complex.
2) No more attaching the "gate" suffix to scandals.
We can talk about the growth in surveillance technology and *all* of its associated problems without resorting to a term that was originally coined to discuss the complex relationship between Congress, the military, and the industrial base that supported both. According to Wikipedia, the industry covered by the "military industrial complex" was worth some $600 billion in 2009. Surveillance, while no doubt a booming business, isn't exactly in this league.
As for the --gate thing, it's just plain stupid.
He has a "host of critical questions" and I will answer them.
Will officers be able to choose when the video is running?
Yes and no. When they are on duty and not in a private situation (eg using the washroom) the camera will be on. They may choose to turn it on if off duty and in a relevant circumstance
How will the video be protected from tampering?
Video tampering is quite easy to spot forensically .
How long will it be archived?
With backups, probably forever and I do not see a problem with that.
Can it be demanded by courts?
Yes and a good thing.
Divorce lawyers?
Yes as a prevention of fraud against a spouse.
Insurance companies?
Yes as a prevention of fraud against an insurance company thereby keeping insurance costs down.
Can it be enhanced and used to trigger prosecutions of new crimes, perhaps based on items in private homes captured on video when officers enter?
Maybe as it may fall under the standard of "plain sight" the same as the officers seeing it with their own eyes This one will probably have to go to court for a ruling.
What will be the penalties when clips of these videos, often involving people in personal situations of high drama and embarrassment, often through no fault of their own, leak onto video sharing sites?
This is the only really hard question. I say it is something we have to live with. Perhaps when enough people are "exposed", society will realize that everyone is occasionally embarrassed in public and the tables will turn on the bullies that victimize these already embarrassed people.
PS. Eight questions is far from a host.
Reading the summary I' say it's a good time to live outside the US... ...but then again history has shown that most western countries sooner or later copy the US laws, so damn, we're all fucked
It doesn't work that way. Take for instance the "terrorist" in the UK a few years ago that got run down and shot in the back of the head repeatedly. Mysteriously all of the cameras (that the uk is known for) in the area were "not working" that day.
Are you really going to pin your hopes and dreams on the idea that someone in your local government is going to be as honest when its your life on the line?
Boston Marathon.
Not only was every fixed security cam in range scoured for images, but private images were also solicited, and soon high res shots appeared via public submission of random grab shots.
At the first sign of something odd going on, in any American city, you will see every second bystander whip out a cell phone and start shooting pictures. Its everywhere. Even fender benders are photographed by uninvolved bystanders.
The cat is out of the bag, the Supreme Court has spoken, and nobody is putting down their cameras any time soon in the US.
That's not to say that all police reports are immediately to be trusted, simply that there is no place the police can hide either.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
Article amounts to trolling, but it goes all conspiracy theory at the end. "if you know where to look" indeed. Suuuuure, I'll keep all that under my hat.
Grade: D+
Try harder next time.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
on them for 3rd parties. I'm glad their's a war on idiots recording my every move and uploading it the web.
I don't want people who join the Google Borg to tell Google where I am every minuet of every day. I am against state surveillance as well. I'm all about fighting the surveillance society.
It is my understanding that private videos helped identify the Boston terror strikers. The public has a very big stake in wanting lots and lots of private and business cams being in action.
Here in Northern Virginia, the police will rarely stop you (for speeding) if you are not going over the limit; the problem is the limits, which can vary rapidly and arbitrarily. The worst example around here is Dulles Airport, where the access road speed limit goes from 55 to 30 in a very short distance just before a bend, perfect for disguising a radar trap.
Also, coming from the South, I have to wonder if the strictness of your Sheriff varies by the way you look...
Snitchbox policy a la Progressive Insurance. Does the insurance company offload the footage?
This means people need to be wearing T-shirts with language like "INADMISSIBLE AS EVIDENCE", "JURY NULLIFICATION", "SPARF DOCTRINE", etc. This will force the prosecution to tamper with the footage lest the footage tamper with the jury.
This is what happens when you elect liberals and leftists and statists.
Ron Paul 2016. Take back America.
I've driven well over a million miles in 35 years, a great deal of it within the UK when my job covered the whole country (and a great deal of it, above the 'speed limit'). I've never, ever heard of anyone being pulled over for being only 10mph over the limit. In fact 80mph (on the speedo) was my 'normal' motorway speed for that very reason. I've also never, ever heard of anybody being convicted of speeding on the word of a cop (i.e. without supporting evidence such as a speed gun, camera or video).
Why am I wasting my time... You're talking shite.
Unlike Britain...
This area is pretty cosmopolitan for a Southern town. The chief deputy for a couple of decades was black and so are many of the deputies. They concentrate mostly on real crime and have one of the highest success rates in the state for solving crimes. The Sheriff is getting pretty old and will probably retire soon but hopefully whoever ends up replacing him will continue the job in the same way. I don't doubt that there are problems since anything that involves people will have problems but not many of our neighboring counties have been so fortunate.
Mysteriously all of the cameras (that the uk is known for) in the area were "not working" that day
Which is the primary reason why I have been avoiding the UK like the plague. The UK is the prime example of what the US should not become: a police state with 1 CCTV camera per 14 people (source).
/. readers, I know you will mod this down as well)
None of my tourist of business dollars will flow to that island anymore...
(and yes, my dear English
Nice. I think we all need to learn to act as Thomas Jefferson advised, "When you do a thing, imagine the whole world is watching and act accordingly." Police can have their police cams, and we can have our cell-phone cams. The more we have to do things in the light of video recordings, the more we'll all try and be a bit more civilized. I don't think all cops hate video... probably just the bad ones, which I think are a small minority. I suspect they love having their own video. However, you never know which kind of cop you'll be recording...
The local cop around here is our sheriff, who is pretty cool. Once I went to a friends house after his alarm went off, and the sheriff was there first. I accidentally scared the heck out of him when I walked up the driveway. I don't think around here he's ever had to draw his gun on anyone. He helps keep kids from stealing from houses in our neighborhood, and that's a good thing.
Celebrate failure, and then learn from it - Nolan Bushnell
Believe it or not. That actually happened to me. This cop is yelling at me and calling me an idiot on the side of the road (all on tape, that he told me he was turning on) probably because he had no evidence i was speeding, and i was admitting to it; but when i took him to court (defended myself), apparently he had got into a fight out side a night club and the tape recorder was broken so all of our confrontation was lost, and we were going to have to go off his notes that had survived.
Maybe not all the cops are bad, but enough of them are.
" and i was admitting to it" and i was NOT admitting to it* sorry guise.
I agree. This is a badly written trolly summary, I could have done better if I bothered to spell check one of my own. I actually clicked the discussion link to see if there were any sane posts at all below.
I saw that lecture by the lawyer and cop also. The trick that you describe is that the cop & suspect walk into an interrogation room, he starts pulls out a tape recorder and starts doing paperwork. The silence and nonchalance
Where does the school board find them and why do they keep sending them to ME?
bend sover and farts into camera
It's not. This cop killed three people with his cop car in 2010, but was out driving drunk again because "somehow" his blood sample in the evidence locker was fiddled with, and it was supposedly "improperly" taken initially. http://www.wishtv.com/dpp/news/crime/david-bisard-stopped-for-drunk-driving
Not necessarily. My son, a notorious speeder in his early twenties, racked up so many tickets he was very likely to lose his license, if not go to jail (the last was for drag racing.) He must have had 8 or more tickets, all way over the speed limit, in a relatively short period of time. What did he do? Go to court for each one, made whatever argument made sense to him at the time, and ended up with only 1 ticket sticking. A few times the police didn't bother showing up in court and that's an automatic off the hook kind of thing. This wasn't but a few years ago either so you can fight city hall if you want to. And some do succeed.
If you're a habitual violator, sure, that's the way to go. But for the average person who only gets a speeding ticket once every 5-10-20 years, the laws are set up to milk you for revenue.
Generally, it works something like this: If you contest a ticket in court and lose, you pay the full fine, it goes on your record with points against your license. If you plead no contest and just pay the fine, you get no points on your record, unless you get another ticket within a 1-2 year period. Not to mention, you can plead no contest and pay your fine by mail and don't have to waste a workday in court.
Here's a news item from yesterday:
One of the bill's opponents, Sen. Tim Lanane, D-Anderson, was troubled that the bill didn't protect people who did nothing misleading with the photos or videotapes, and had this to say:
A few hours later, the bills sponsor, Rep. Bill Friend, (R-Macy) withdrew the bill without giving a reason.
The withdrawn bill is expected to be added as an amendment to an appropriations bill later this session.
So,the standalone bill made the sponsor and his party (R) look bad, and he decided to slip it in as an amendment when nobody's looking.
Privacy: It's Not for You. It's apparently only for "people" who have the last name, "Inc."
You are welcome on my lawn.
And that will neccessitate more of them out on patrol and they'll be everywhere, but you won't see them because they'll look just like any average Joe, but secretly wired to the hilt with wireless and on call armory and swat teams, drones and aircraft and missile launchers at the ready. Life ceases to be any fun anymore when everyone is suspecting everybody of everything and you can be shot for pissing behind some pine tree on state park land.
And if they'd had hidden cameras around about 30 years ago, I'd probably just now be getting out of prison for selling weed in high school.
There's a simple explanation: The greed of the police varies greatly by country, or even by district.
As long as:
- They are not allow to publish them without permissions of the affected person.
- They are never combined in a central piece that could allowing tracking (having many cameras like the police violates this).
- They aren't send to a central server like google for facial and thus also tracking purposes.
- Anything else that can get you killed when the Germans get back. (I know the changes are slim this bad a stuff happens again BUT: It doesn't has to be DEAD that threatened you, you can also be threatened in other ways.)
Do you know that you're likely not allowed to use video shot on your camera commercially? Read the EULA.
Thanks to the codec cartel MPEG LA http://www.osnews.com/story/23236/Why_Our_Civilization_s_Video_Art_and_Culture_is_Threatened_by_the_MPEG-LA
MPEG LA consists of several corporations, including Apple, Microsoft and Sony. http://www.mpegla.com/main/programs/AVC/Pages/Licensors.aspx
What interests me are the policies that we will be seeing regarding drones. I'm not talking about "death from above" drones, (i hope) but surveillance drones. I can see where corporations will want to keep private drones grounded. After all, what good are fence to keep people out from observing your shenanigans when a damn drone can wiz over, capture everything in high definition? It's not trespassing and they don't own the airspace yet. It could lead to easy evidence of foul doing unearthed by those pesky liberal hippies and their damnable ideas about not fucking up the environment, fair trade, dumb shit like that, right? So, there goes big evil money with big evil lawyers after it right now.
But how about the farmer who is trying to keep his costs down and invests in a drone to check his livestock instead driving a gas guzzling 4 wheel drive all over hell and creation? Send out the drone, it can count cows, at least living ones, maybe even dead ones with an upgrade. Environmentalists who want to count Spotted Owls or something silly, they will be wanting to tap into this awesome bit of tech. And why shouldn't they? There are countless applications for this technology. My idea of where it could go if not fucked with, might even be an advancement in delivery services. Don't laugh too hard, but imagine a FedEx drone with a special delivery for you. Or how about a Dominoes Pizza Drone? An automated postal service? Your own personal utility drone that picks up your prescriptions, drops off your dry cleaning. It could all be orchestrated from data servers, flight plans instantly filed, the entire hive of a community of drones operating at peak efficiency and safety. Much mundane traffic by humans could be eliminated.
Dreamers, huh? Who do they think they are? We're not going to see progress if neanderthals make policies. We have to balance our fears with our aspirations and of course we need to preserve our freedoms and privacy. We can do it, but we can't let the bad people win. Who are the bad people? If you has to ask, seriously, get with the program.
Take the Red Pill.
Not necessarily. My son, a notorious speeder in his early twenties, racked up so many tickets he was very likely to lose his license, if not go to jail (the last was for drag racing.) He must have had 8 or more tickets, all way over the speed limit, in a relatively short period of time. What did he do? Go to court for each one, made whatever argument made sense to him at the time, and ended up with only 1 ticket sticking. A few times the police didn't bother showing up in court and that's an automatic off the hook kind of thing. This wasn't but a few years ago either so you can fight city hall if you want to. And some do succeed.
Rest assured he (or you, possibly?) had to pay for each and every one of those court appearances, i.e. court costs. Even by getting out of all the tickets he still provided the income the cops were seeking. Poorer people often don't have the choice, especially if the choice is miss work, missing out on a day's pay, to possibly only have to pay 50 instead of 100, versus just paying a hundred and not missing out on a day's pay.
Well without the cameras what hope would be had? You shouldn't expect privacy in public. If everyone has wearable cameras the criminals and police knows they are subject to multiple witnesses. Recording needs to be done before a crime takes place so that the perps are caught in the act and can be traced. What good are aftermath videos?
None of my tourist of business dollars will flow to that island anymore... (and yes, my dear English /. readers, I know you will mod this down as well)
I'm English and I'd mod you up. Because I hate tourists.
(and yes, my dear English /. readers, I know you will mod this down as well)
I'm English and I used the last of my mod points yesterday; I would have modded you up. I don't like the spy cameras either.
I suspect that we will never meet:: I won't go to the USA since I don't want to be finger printed (& the rest of it) by the TSA, also it is unsafe to visit the USA since I might be arrested for doing something in my own country that is legal in my country.
How I pine for the day when that inkling was present in the story submission itself.
"So you'd turn every police officer in to a roaming surveillance system?"
That is the VERY definition of a cop, camera or not.
A COCKSUCKING TOOL if ever there was one. if you needed any more info, look at what he is planning for manhattan.
You have a point, but it is an important discussion, and the answers are different in different locales. We need some very clear parameters about the way surveillance is used in all jurisdictions.
I'm not one to immediately discount the use of surveillance, but I recognize it could quickly be abused.
Can you imagine the possible abuses of this little gem from a month or two back?
An important change for education.
Already, every picture that I take is uploaded to the cloud. It plays merry hell on my battery life, but the fact is that - as long as I can stall for a minute or two (in decent coverage areas) - every picture I take is loaded to dropbox in the cloud.
I didn't realize quite how quickly it was working until the other day my sdcard died....all my pics were not lost.
Take my phone, shithead. Smash it. I still have the pictures, and likely you've just given me what any jury will recognize is a juicy basis for a lawsuit.
-Styopa
When I lived in New York it was common knowledge that you had to be doing 10+ MPH over the speed limit before you got stopped. I moved to Western Nebraska for work and am routinely stopped for doing 2-4 MPH over the limit. They all result in warnings. 22 in a 20? Warning. 69 in a 65? Warning. 72 in a 65? Ticket.
I've been told by the locals who have lived here all their lives that there is some government grant that they get if they have enough citations. I don't know if it's true and have no way to verify it, but I can tell you that this happens far more often in town than on the surrounding highways with the exception of the Banner County police. Their tickets are a main source of revenue for their county. For the 20 minutes or so that I have to travel through their county, I don't do more than 67 because they can, and do, give out tickets for anything above 67.
Around for 10 years and I've never used it? Seems like such an important and necessary service, don't it?
The reason why is because of the rampant false claims made by professional groups of people who make it their living from causing accidents and making claims. It has nothing to do with being a snitch rather than saving your own ass and if it helps the insurance company and you save money I say good for them.
Personally I have a dash cam in my car ever since some a-hole tried to run me off the road when I would not let him in to the line of traffic because he used the shoulder (against the law here) to get to the front of the line. I wish they would offer that kind of discount here.
The Supreme Court has NOT spoken.
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
i've gotten a ticket for 56 in a 55. no joke. (illinois state trooper on i80)
there's a four lane road in the town i live in now (georga). 35mph limit.
you will get a ticket for going 38 downhill.
If you were to establish that the failure of the police video recorder appeared similarly in court to willfully destroying evidence (presumption that the evidence looked bad for whoever destroyed it), then there'd be a large incentive to make sure that it worked properly every time (or use many different cameras). That said, there should probably be some reasonable exceptions to this.
This is why I like Slashdot! After reading "inklings of the battle" I opened the post just to see if people will take the bait or if they'll see it as empty. Glad to see it's the latter.
Relax.
Once personal digital storage is outlawed, all your cameras and other recording devices will save directly to the Cloud of Unknowing.
Cool dispassionate editors will improve what you captured and return to you exactly what you need to know, no less and no more.
You're being unfair. 86% of cops give the rest a bad name.
...when artsy photographers could take pictures of kids in a playground.
Actually, 10 disinterested eye-witnesses of any kind would get you convicted.
You want to talk about chicken-shit?.. When I was in the Army, I was stationed for a time at Yuma Proving Grounds, in Arizona. Since I was in the military, I kept my California license plates on my car and my California drivers license. So one day I was driving from the base to the city of Yuma, 26 miles of southwestern US desert, and a two lane highway. This was back in the late 70s, when 55 was the limit, and that's what US Highway 95 was signboarded at. I come around a corner and there is an Arizona Highway Patrol car on the shoulder with a radar. I quickly checked the speedometer, and according to it, I was between 50-55.. I see a cloud of dust in my rear view mirror and here he comes.. He pulls me over and asks "How fast do you think you were going?" .. I said, "less than 55"... He says "I clocked you at 56 MILES PER HOUR and I'm gonna have to write you a ticket".... What was hilarious and I had to bite my lip to keep from cracking up, was, after he'd started to write the ticket, and was committed, he noticed the "PO BOX XXXX US ARMY YPG, YUMA AZ" on my California drivers license. In my best "talking-to-a-cop" voice I advised him I'd be seeing him in court.. I completely understand WHY he pulled me over, which was the fact I had out-of-state plates on the car, which told him I'd pay the ticket and forget about it.. This idea evaporated when he saw my license and the local address on it, and I told him I'd be going to court... His demenor changed completely.. I'm gonna bet he was wishing he could just tear the ticket up, which is not legal under most states laws. He did show up on the appointed day at court and the judge reamed his ASS... Was TOTALLY worth taking a day off from work to go to court....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
At least in Arizona, around the Flagstaff/Coconino County area, if you get a ticket, and you haven't had one for a significant amount of time, you can take "traffic school", which keeps the ticket off your insurance, BUT you wind up paying as much in fees to the county for the priviledge of taking "traffic school" as the bail for the ticket.. Last trip to Flagstaff, we were on cruise control going towards the Grand Canyon, up US Highway 89, I had the cruise control set at 70, with the speed limit at 65. I went by this AHP car and as I went by, he took off after me.. When he pulled me over he claimed to have gotten an 80 mph off his radar. I knew that was bullshit, as the the car was a brand new 2012 Ford Escape and the cruise control was set AT 70... Of course, you never argue with a thug and his gun.. Of course, with Nevada plates on the car, he saw an easy mark that actually was going 5 mph over the limit (which EVERYbody else was doing also) and tacked on an additional 10 mph for good measure... Since I live in Las Vegas, there was no way in hell I was driving the 240 miles each way to go to court in Flagstaff, but I damn sure would have LOVED to, and challenge the calibration on his radar..
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
I've driven well over a million miles in 35 years, a great deal of it within the UK when my job covered the whole country (and a great deal of it, above the 'speed limit'). I've never, ever heard of anyone being pulled over for being only 10mph over the limit. In fact 80mph (on the speedo) was my 'normal' motorway speed for that very reason. I've also never, ever heard of anybody being convicted of speeding on the word of a cop (i.e. without supporting evidence such as a speed gun, camera or video).
Why am I wasting my time... You're talking shite.
May I suggest then, AC from the UK, that you live in the good ole' USA then if you wanna get tickets for whatEVER the cop wants to give you one for...
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
ehh no,
The Russian government pillages and loots its own people. Dash-cams are just to help them screw u.
The defence in that case is not to fight against cameras, but encourage more of them. More and more, everywhere, all the time. The more separate, independent recordings there are of a single event, the harder it is to tamper with them.
That happened on the London Underground. Ask any Londoner what they think the odds are of any specific piece of equipment down there being non-functional on any given day, when it's something that no-one is likely to notice (like a surveillance camera).
Seriously, dude, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.
A black sheriff??!!
Hey, it worked in Blazing Saddles.
..A conservatives definition of Truth is VERY different from a liberal's definition of truth".. like day and night...
And, more than likely, the cops that gave you the two tickets you've told stories about in this thread were hardcore gun-totin', Jesus-lovin', Republican-votin' conservatives.
Just sayin'.