Slashdot Mirror


Experiment Will Determine Dinosaur's Skin Color

AchilleTalon writes "One of the only well preserved dinosaur skin samples ever found is being tested at the Canadian Light Source (CLS) synchrotron to determine skin color and to explain why the fossilized specimen remained intact after 70-million years. University of Regina physicist Mauricio Barbi said the hadrosaur, a duck-billed dinosaur from the Late Cretaceous period (100-65 million years ago), was found close to a river bed near Grand Prairie, Alberta."

62 of 98 comments (clear)

  1. Quite interresting by Silpher · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Because this could also determine if they were feathered or not. No need for spectacular skin if feathered and probably need for colored skin if not feathered.
    Disclaimer: Not an expert

    1. Re:Quite interresting by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Funny

      Disclaimer: Not an expert

      On Slashdot, we assume that about everyone.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    2. Re:Quite interresting by Webs+101 · · Score: 5, Informative
      It's unlikely that this creature had feathers. Feathers are only known in Coelurosauria, which is a subset of theropods that, for example, includes Tyrannosaurus but not Allosaurus.

      The hadrosaur under study is an ornithischian - a very, very distant relative that's more closely related to Stegosaurus and Triceratops. Psittacosaurus, a primitive horned dinosaur, did have tail bristles, but they appear to have been decorative for display and not feather-like at all.

      --

      "Even for Slashdot, that was a very obscure reference!" - Anonymous Coward

    3. Re:Quite interresting by ozmanjusri · · Score: 2

      Maybe by late cretaceous. Early on there would have been sour gymnosperms.

      --
      "I've got more toys than Teruhisa Kitahara."
    4. Re:Quite interresting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      @Black Parrot

      "Disclaimer: Not an expert
      On Slashdot, we assume that about everyone."

      At least we know that you have feathers.

    5. Re:Quite interresting by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 2

      Actually, Coelurosauria are not the only feathered dinos anymore. I think they have found feather evidence on Carnosaurs as well making pretty much all theropods likely to have been feathered.

      And let's not forget the "hairy" tail fans of the Psittacosaurus which certainly indicate that even ornithischians had non-scaly skin covering. Actually there is even more evidence of proto feather like structures in both ornithischians and saurischians.

      http://archosaurmusings.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/blah-blah-feathered-ornithischians-yawn/

      All in all one can't discount some sort of skin covering. That being said, I seem to recall reading somewhere that many animals that have coloured covering over their skin (scale, feathers, or hair) often have corresponding matching colouring (or at leasat pattern) on the skin itself. It wouldn't be a complete waste of time in any case.

      P.S. I am not an expert either, but David Hone (of archosaur musings is) is, so you can find a bit of good info on his website.

      --
      I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
    6. Re:Quite interresting by davidbrit2 · · Score: 2

      We practically require it.

    7. Re:Quite interresting by jbengt · · Score: 1

      The photo in TFA clearly shows scales, not feathers.

    8. Re:Quite interresting by jimbolauski · · Score: 1

      The only feathered dinosaur fossils that have been found are in China, either the volcanic ash eruption was unique because it preserved the feathers or feathers were an adaptation for dinosaurs in that region.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    9. Re:Quite interresting by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1
      Right, well, my original mildly facetious comment seems to have attracted frothy-mouted vitriol, so I'll try again.

      No need for spectacular skin if feathered and probably need for colored skin if not feathered.

      I'm not sure about your logic. Tigers have stripey pigmented skin despite being covered in fur. Polar bears have pigmented skin despite being covered in fur. There's also an assumption that a feathered dinosaur would be covered in feathers, when they may have only had them on limbs or in prominent places for display purposes.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    10. Re:Quite interresting by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      The only feathered dinosaur fossils that have been found are in China

      Hmmm, I think that you're missing several well-known genera there - and the likelihood is high that there are as-yet-undisovered feathered dinosaur genera too. I'm thinking of - minimally - Archaeopteryx - but there have been others (Sciurumimus for example) which have "integumentary structures" which appear to have been feathers. Though not necessarily "contour" feathers as Archaeopteryx has.

      Yes, the recent (last couple of decades) Chinese discoveries are impressive. But they're not all that is going on in the palaeontological world. And I'm pretty sure that the Chinese discoveries come from several different horizons and therefore represent different events.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by DavidClarkeHR · · Score: 1

    It is unfortunate that realistic dinosaur costumes aren't nearly as interesting as they were before we did all the science, and figured out that they have feathers and whatnot.

    I like the creepy, lizard-like monstrosities. We've already gone from HR Giger dinosaurs to Jim Henson dinosaurs ...so far. I worry the next step will be MLP:FIM dinos... bah.

    --
    - Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
    1. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 4, Funny

      Not the mama!

    2. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by buchner.johannes · · Score: 2

      Haha, imagine you're the one who has to publish that all the dinosaurs were shiny pink!

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    3. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by Farmer+Tim · · Score: 1

      OMG! Ponisaurs!!!

      --
      Blank until /. makes another boneheaded UI decision.
    4. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      How is this in any way, shape, or form insightful? They are doing tests on ONE sample from ONE particular dinosaur...this is supposed to tell us anything? For all we know that dino had a skin infection or was an oddball, a single sample isn't gonna tell us jack squat except about that single individual dinosaur.

      Personally I say let kids draw the things with tiger stripes for all it matters, something that has been gone that long simply isn't gonna leave enough evidence behind for us to talk about anything more than conjecture anyway.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    5. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by DavidClarkeHR · · Score: 1

      OMG! Ponisaurs!!!

      SQUEEE.

      --
      - Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
    6. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by Macgrrl · · Score: 1, Funny

      Worse still, what if they were purple.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    7. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by __aajfby9338 · · Score: 1

      I hope they were gray and had derpy eyes.

    8. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 1

      The 'scary' factor for birds is quite offset by how delicate they are.

      In fact, I can't say I know of a single bird that really looks scary. Sure, bigger I've seen, but not scary.

      Millions of years of primate evolution next to 'soft fuzzy thing that squeeks and explodes into a puff of feathers when hit with rock' seems to have bred out any 'fear' response for birds in me.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    9. Re:Realistic Dinosaur costumes ... by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never had a large bird of prey, say a falcon or eagle attack you. Not that many people have, but I've seen what they can do with those huge talons, and they can be pretty scary indeed.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  3. Re:my crystal ball says... green! by kruach+aum · · Score: 1

    But there are many non-green reptiles as well, the gila monster being the most striking example.

  4. Dinosaurs closer to Birds by Jagungal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In the past many think that Dinosaurs were most closely related to reptiles but we now know that Dinosaurs are most closely related to birds and thus may have the colour variations that one sees in birds rather than the colour variation seen in Lizards.

    1. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      What is a Chameleon?

    2. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by snikulin · · Score: 1

      Birds ARE the Dinosaurs.

    3. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by peragrin · · Score: 1

      So Alfred Hithcock's "The birds" was really Jurassic Park 5 Revenge 65 million years later?

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    4. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by PlastikMissle · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why do birds descending from dinosaurs rule out reptiles descending from dinosaurs?

      Given the huge amount of dinosaur races, wouldn't it be more likely that different dinosaur races evolved into different types of animals over time? This would make them equally related to dinosaurs, but not the same dinosaurs. For all we know their common ancestor could be a pre dinosaur animal even though both were dinosaurs at one point in time.

      Actually dinosaurs (and birds now) are reptiles, but they're not lizards. While dinosaurs and lizards (and crocodilians) are descended from the same family tree, the dinosaurs and birds have very distinguishable anatomic differences. Dinos and birds have their legs stretched under them, while the rest of the reptiles have their legs stretched out of the sides.

    5. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      In the past many think that Dinosaurs were most closely related to reptiles but we now know that Dinosaurs are most closely related to birds and thus may have the colour variations that one sees in birds rather than the colour variation seen in Lizards.

      Did anyone else hear this in the voice of Richard Kiley?

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    6. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by John+Bokma · · Score: 1

      You mean colors like this Sceloporus species relaxing in my hand.?

    7. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Birds' color variation is typically in their feathers, not their skin.

      And birds are dinosaurs. The dinosaurs didn't become extinct, they just suffered a massive loss of biodiversity. Only a tiny tiny slice of dinosaur species made it through the extinction event, and they lead to today's birds.

    8. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by Xest · · Score: 1

      Given that both birds and reptiles come in all sorts of colours with all sorts of patterns I can't help but feel that your post has placed me firmly back where I was before I started reading it.

    9. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by rwise2112 · · Score: 1

      What is a Chameleon?

      All things to everyone
      Run run away

      --

      "For every expert, there is an equal and opposite expert"
    10. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Birds are reptiles now.

      Yeah and my pet budgie's a fucking crocodile.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    11. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by niado · · Score: 1

      And birds are dinosaurs. The dinosaurs didn't become extinct, they just suffered a massive loss of biodiversity. Only a tiny tiny slice of dinosaur species made it through the extinction event, and they lead to today's birds.

      Today's birds did not evolve from any "traditional" dinosaurs that survived the K-T event. Anatomically modern birds (Neornithes) were already well-established in the late Cretaceous and distinct from "traditional" dinosaurs. This is why I do not like the whole "birds ARE dinosaurs!" meme because the situation is a little more complex than that.

      Yes, birds are (probably) dinosaurs, and reptiles, and chordates. Mammals are also chordates. So are amphibians. So are fish. But nobody "corrects" someone talking about mammals saying "dude they are CHORDATES!!!" Calling birds "birds" is still a very useful distinction from dinosaurs and modern reptiles and mammals and whatever else.

    12. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by Newtonian_p · · Score: 1

      Birds are reptiles now.

      Yes they are. Although in common everyday language usually "reptiles" means those scale covered green or brown land creatures, in taxonomy all living and extinct bird species are part of the reptilia class.

      See:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avialae

      --

      There are 2 kinds of people in this world: Those who write in decimal and those who don't

    13. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Today's birds did not evolve from any "traditional" dinosaurs that survived the K-T event.

      You're the first person I've encountered, other than a particularly deranged creationist from St Albans, to claim that "the birds" are descended from dinosaurs that survived either the Chixulub impact or the end-Cretaceous mass extinction (it remains to be proved that those two events are the same, though they certainly happened close together in time - within a few hundred thousand years of each other). Everyone who has made a more than cursory study of the subject is aware that there were multiple genera (and higher taxonomic levels) of avian dinosaurs diversifying through the Cretaceous. Whether those groups map well onto modern families etc. is a distinct question.

      It is very clear to me that, not withstanding the non-monophyly of the dinosaurs and the possible non-monophyly of the birds, ALL of the organisms that acquired the "bird" lifestyle and anatomic characteristics in the mid-late Jurasssic were members of the dinosaurs, and therefore the assertion that I've been making in my signature for ages now (see below) is correct.

      But nobody "corrects" someone talking about mammals saying "dude they are CHORDATES!!!"

      You need to get out more, specifically to pubs where cladistics buffs go for a pint and a bun-fight after work.

      Calling birds "birds" is still a very useful distinction from dinosaurs and modern reptiles and mammals and whatever else.

      If you're solely considering how things are at the moment, the distinctions between these groups is clear. But if you're going back to the roots of these groups, which you are inevitably when you're talking about the fossils, then the problems of correctly identifying the paraphylies involved does become important. It's not as if we go around inventing these terminologies for the fun of pronouncing Latinesque jaw-crackers after the third pint.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    14. Re:Dinosaurs closer to Birds by niado · · Score: 1

      Today's birds did not evolve from any "traditional" dinosaurs that survived the K-T event.

      You're the first person I've encountered, other than a particularly deranged creationist from St Albans, to claim that "the birds" are descended from dinosaurs that survived either the Chixulub impact or the end-Cretaceous mass extinction

      I believe you misread my statement, as I did not claim that birds descended from dinosaurs that survived the K-T event - I was stating the opposite to correct the AC above. As I mentioned, no known dinosaur clades survived the extinction event, aside from the Neornithe birds (who had already been distinct from dinosaurs for some time). When discussing the extinction event (or really, any period post-Jurassic) it seems useful to call birds "birds", since they were already anatomically distinct and all other dinosaur clades (as well as the two existing non-modern bird groups, Enantiornithes and Hesperornithiformes) went extinct.

      It is very clear to me that, not withstanding the non-monophyly of the dinosaurs and the possible non-monophyly of the birds, ALL of the organisms that acquired the "bird" lifestyle and anatomic characteristics in the mid-late Jurasssic were members of the dinosaurs, and therefore the assertion that I've been making in my signature for ages now (see below) is correct.

      Certainly true. The assertion in your signature is too restrictive, though. Depending on context either "avian dinosaur", "bird" or merely "dinosaur" would be the most useful term.

      But nobody "corrects" someone talking about mammals saying "dude they are CHORDATES!!!"

      You need to get out more, specifically to pubs where cladistics buffs go for a pint and a bun-fight after work.

      Ha.

  5. spoiler by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    it's beige

  6. Can't we just instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Judge them by the content of their character?

  7. I'm putting my bet in on.... by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    ...OMG Ponies! pink.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  8. I don't see color by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Does skin color really matter? Are we still not able to look past it?

    1. Re:I don't see color by rmdingler · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sure we can. Right up until your daughter's of dating age.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    2. Re:I don't see color by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Sure we can. Right up until your daughter's of dating age.

      I'd be grateful if you could explain the difference between that statement and a piece of racist shit. Because I can't see one.

      "Score +5, Informative" eh? I always forget that retards get modpoints too on slashdot.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    3. Re:I don't see color by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      Sure we can. Right up until your daughter's of dating age.

      Somehow I think most of us draw the line at letting our child date a dinosaur. Doctors, ok; rich businessmen, ok; even maybe a rich businessman from the wrong (ie. other) side of the Mason-Dixon line, but no dinosaurs, dammit!

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  9. The color of their skin????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Instead of knowing the color of their skin, I would be more interested in knowing the content of their character.

    1. Re:The color of their skin????? by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

      Damn! I *just* missed that one.

      --
      Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
    2. Re:The color of their skin????? by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

      Their character is very stony and rigid. They're very resistant to change. They're never the life of the party, but they also won't leave unless you escort them out. All in all, having one for an acquaintance is likely to be a rocky experience.

  10. Re:cold blooded by PlastikMissle · · Score: 1

    That's the old theory. Now that their connection with birds is gained more ground, scientists believe that many (if not all) dinosaur species were warm blooded.

  11. Re:my crystal ball says... green! by PlastikMissle · · Score: 1

    Yes they are. Dinosauria is a clade under Reptilia. But they are more closely related to birds than they are to lizards, crocodiles and turtles (which we traditionally think of as reptiles).

  12. Re:Why? by hedwards · · Score: 1

    No, AFAIK it was just conjecture at the time. There wasn't the DNA or knowledge of DNA to know what color the dinosaurs should be. This was also millions of years before Kodachrome so the only pictures we have are in black and white or various monochrome pigmentation.

    Fortunately, with a skin sample we might learn what color one specific dinosaur was. But, it's safe to say that it was some sort of earth tone.

  13. Re:my crystal ball says... green! by dadelbunts · · Score: 1

    I would even say most reptiles arent green. And the ones that are can change color usually. Most reptiles are probably various shades of brown.

  14. Some things you just DON'T want to know by Provocateur · · Score: 1

    That way no myths are shattered, and I would always enjoy being terrified watching Jurassic Park

    Otherwise, I'd have to lean over and tell my kids, They're probably out-of-work dinosaurs that hang out in empty Hollywood lots, waiting for the pickup truck to come get them. Same as those out-of-work 'bad ass' bikers waiting for a different pickup, but still waiting for that same type of call, for their next walk-on role.

    --
    WARNING: Smartphones have side effects--most of them undocumented.
  15. Re:Green and Slimy by silentcoder · · Score: 1

    I'm pretty sure that the absence of any supporting evidence whatsoever disqualifies your hypotheses from the lofty title of "theory".

    --
    Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  16. Re:Green and Slimy by Mike+Frett · · Score: 1

    So are you saying that a Supersaurus was dexterous enough to roll around on the ground? This isn't a small Cat we're talking about here. Here we have a very large, very heavy Reptile-ish creature. We should all know by now that the larger something is, the less agile it can be. Even a Cat can't reach some points on it's body.

    And this isn't a Bird, what use would a brightly colored Supersaurus be, it would be a target if anything. I'm sticking to what I said, I'm sure it was a darker shade. The examples you gave are for Poisonous creatures, they are brightly colored to indicate a warning to potential attackers. The defensive mechanism for a large Dino like the Supersaurus would have been it's sheer size, mess with me and I'll stomp you, sort of thing.

    I mean come on, you're talking to a guy who devoted a small portion of his life to the grooming habits of Blattaria.

  17. Re:cold blooded by drxenos · · Score: 1

    Yes, there is evidence. There is evidence that dinos sat on their eggs. A cold-blooded creature would not do that.

    --


    Anonymous Cowards suck.
  18. Re:Green and Slimy by tehcyder · · Score: 1

    Notice how clean cats keep themselves?

    That's just because they know it looks cute, and gets them additional food. It's got nothing to do with hunting - otherwise, why would dogs stink so much?

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  19. Re:Green and Slimy by tehcyder · · Score: 1
    I am frankly disappointed if there's anything called a "Supersaurus". Back in my day we had proper dinosaur names.

    Supersaurus sounds like something on Disney, with a teenage American accident.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  20. Re:cold blooded by sFurbo · · Score: 1

    I think I have seen a documentary where a snake was coiled around its eggs. IIRC, it even had muscle spasms to supply heat. Snakes are cold blodded, right? Or can an animal be warm blooded part of the time?

  21. Re:cold blooded by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 1

    Awesome with the snake, didn't know that. Slightly different, but don't let us forget that alligators and their cousins sort of sit on their nests... not to keep them warm (the decaying leaves do that) but to protect the eggs from egg stealers.

  22. Dinosaur color by Deefburger · · Score: 1

    Dinosaurs are purple. Everyone knows that!

    --
    Most people are mostly good most of the time.
  23. Re:Ed, what an ugly thing to say... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    It is my belief the true measure of one's colorblindness cannot be adequately measured until such a time as it is up close and personal, such as the instance mentioned in the previous post. I would've expected moderation funny or perhaps interesting, but that particular vote was out of my hands. I abhor ugliness.... does this mean we're not friends anymore?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  24. Re:cold blooded by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    Snakes are cold blodded, right? Or can an animal be warm blooded part of the time?

    Yes.

    To both questions. Simultaneously.

    An animal can be "warm blooded" (i.e. maintain a relatively high and constant internal temperature) without having a physiological mechanism for maintaining that temperature. Some animals can do it well-enough using behaviour alone.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"