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SpaceShipTwo Tests Its Rocket Engine and Goes Supersonic

ehartwell writes "It's official. This morning, after WhiteKnightTwo released SpaceShipTwo at an altitude of around 50,000 feet, pilots Mark Stucky and Mike Alsbury ignited the engine for a roughly 16-second blast. After the engine cutoff, the plane coasted back to its landing back at the Mojave airport. Virgin Galactic tweeted that the pilots confirmed 'SpaceShipTwo exceeded the speed of sound on today's flight!' Its predecessor, SpaceShipOne, first went supersonic December 17, 2003."

28 of 103 comments (clear)

  1. Next step by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    So after exceeding the speed of sound the next step is the speed of light? ;-)

    1. Re:Next step by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      There are a few intermediate steps. Going from the speed of sound to the speed of light is more than an order of magnitude, you realize?

      Dang, I'm curious now -

        299792458 m / s / 340.29 m / s = 880991.089952687

      Big number, alright - but not as big as I thought. Hmmm . . .

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    2. Re:Next step by bkmoore · · Score: 3, Funny

      The speed of sound at mean sea level 15C, or the speed of sound in a vacuum? There's a big difference.

    3. Re:Next step by wagnerrp · · Score: 2

      They likely mean the speed of sound at ~50Kft, where it was released from the mothership. The exact speed really doesn't matter. They're testing stability at transonic and supersonic Mach numbers.

    4. Re:Next step by icebike · · Score: 2

      Woosh!

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    5. Re:Next step by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      What do you mean? A woosh at sea level or in a vacuum?

  2. Speed? by JamesA · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why is it taking Virgin Galactic so long for development? Is it a financing or technical issue?

    SpaceX was founded in 2002 and is already making re-supply missions to the ISS. Granted that's not quite the same as human spaceflight but it seems like there's a lot faster advancement occurring at SpaceX than at Virgin Galactic.

    1. Re:Speed? by Infiniti2000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It is safety issue. There's a world of difference between creating an unmanned rocket for resupply and creating a fleet of passenger space ships.

    2. Re:Speed? by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      SpaceX will be ferrying people soon enough.

      There is a world of difference between hops up to 100 miles and actually going into an orbit.

    3. Re:Speed? by jeffmeden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why is it taking Virgin Galactic so long for development? Is it a financing or technical issue?

      SpaceX was founded in 2002 and is already making re-supply missions to the ISS. Granted that's not quite the same as human spaceflight but it seems like there's a lot faster advancement occurring at SpaceX than at Virgin Galactic.

      They are approaching it from a cost-is-everything perspective, instead of an orbit-is-everything perspective. The SpaceX supply missions run at least $20,000 per orbited kilo. For a person to buy a ticket, even if they were treated as cargo, would cost in the $1.5M range. For Virgin Galactic to say that they will get a human up and down (safely) for around 1/10th that price, requires approaching the problem a lot differently (for example, a multi vehicle setup).

    4. Re:Speed? by goertzenator · · Score: 3, Interesting

      SpaceShipTwo has a top speed of approx 1200 m/s, whereas low earth orbit is on the order of 8000 m/s.

    5. Re:Speed? by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 2

      Virgin Galactic is not saying they will get a human up and down to orbit safely for around 1/10th that price.

      Apples to apples, please.

      SpaceShipOne took humans to "space", but it seems to have been designed and developed in a fraction of the time it's taken them with SpaceShipTwo. Both had to deal with having a man-rated craft. Both had to deal with getting to "space", or 100km altitude. I'd imagine the bulk (if not all) of the design work was done before SpaceShipOne's launch, so I'm really having a tough time understanding why building the second iteration is taking so much longer.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    6. Re:Speed? by khallow · · Score: 2

      I am not an expert in this field but some observations are apt: 'Two is a pilotable, larger craft whereas 'One was a smaller, shoot-up-parachue-down craft. The design differences are pretty big; they surely could have been working on the design for 'Two the whole time, but not much of the work on 'One carried over.

      One would expect design differences given the larger size of SpaceShipTwo, the greater need for reliability as a passenger carrying vehicle instead of a prototype, and various performance and safety issues that were discovered with SpaceShipOne or with the 2007 accident (that killed three people and set back the attempts to develop a propulsion system for SpaceShipTwo).

      So given that, I think a lot of the work on SpaceShipOne carries over. They have the same basic design of both the carrier aircraft and the rocket vehicle. They use the same sort of aerobraking system for the rocket vehicle. They know of a number of issues that need to be dealt with (such as instability of SpaceShipTwo once it separates from the carrier aircraft and boosts to its suborbital phase).

    7. Re:Speed? by rocket+rancher · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Why is it taking Virgin Galactic so long for development? Is it a financing or technical issue?

      SpaceX was founded in 2002 and is already making re-supply missions to the ISS. Granted that's not quite the same as human spaceflight but it seems like there's a lot faster advancement occurring at SpaceX than at Virgin Galactic.

      They are approaching it from a cost-is-everything perspective, instead of an orbit-is-everything perspective. The SpaceX supply missions run at least $20,000 per orbited kilo. For a person to buy a ticket, even if they were treated as cargo, would cost in the $1.5M range. For Virgin Galactic to say that they will get a human up and down (safely) for around 1/10th that price, requires approaching the problem a lot differently (for example, a multi vehicle setup).

      For Virgin, I don't think it's a financing or technical issue, because the purpose of Virgin Galactic is marketing for the Virgin brand, not producing a fleet of passenger-carrying spaceships. It puts Branson's brand in front of geeks, and geeks are a legitimate market demographic who can be manipulated by marketing propaganda just like any other market demographic. After all, smart geeks like to think they are investing their money in smart, geeky ways. As long as Branson keeps up the appearance of creating that fleet, he wins -- geeks will be able to cite Virgin Galactic in defense of the presence of any Branson-tainted investment in their portfolio, even if Virgin Galactic never puts another single human in space.

      For SpaceX, cost-is-everything is indeed one driving factor, but getting payload tariffs as low a possible is a means to an end, not the end itself. Unlike Branson, Musk is a neo-industrialist who is deliberately and successfully following in the footsteps of Harriman, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, and Rockefeller. He is using technology to create a self-financing infrastructure that will enable the (lucrative, he expects) exploitation of off-planet resources, in almost the exact same way his predecessors used technology 125 years ago to create the infrastructure necessary to exploit terrestrial resources (and along the way created the social, political, and economic system that put America at the top of the industrial food-chain for nearly a century.) Musk's game plan is thus materially little different than that of any robber baron from the late 19th century. It remains to be seen whether or not history will repeat itself -- I haven't heard any manifest-destiny claims being issued from Musk's PR department yet, but I imagine it's only a matter of time, if he sticks to his current plan.

  3. Terribly Exciting - 10 years ago by Spy+Handler · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When Spaceship One blasted off to win the X-Prize. I remember being very excited. I watched the launch and read as many articles about it as I could.

    That was 10 years ago. Now we have SpaceX and Orbital Sciences making orbit. Tremendous new things seem possible now with Falcon Heavy and Grasshopper reusable stage coming in the pipeline. SpaceShipTwo? A bigger version of SpaceShipOne that carries passengers, but still only suborbital with no further prospects. Where is the Tier Two orbital program that Rutan hinted at? Why did it take so long to get SS2 off the ground? Did Scaled get lost and rudderless with Burt retiring? Did they lack funding? What's the deal?

    1. Re:Terribly Exciting - 10 years ago by 0123456 · · Score: 5, Informative

      SpaceX charge rather more than $200,000 per seat to fly into space. And there's a big difference between NASA 'man rating' and being safe enough to routinely fly tourists; if SS2 flew daily and was as 'man rated' as the shuttle, they'd kill everyone on board every two months.

    2. Re:Terribly Exciting - 10 years ago by sixoh1 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I got a chance to meet Rutan a few years ago here in Colorado Springs at the USAFA - he spoke passionately to the cadets about the fact that when he started in aerospace the speed/power/altitude curve was bent upwards, and then after the shuttle it bent back over itself into decline (think about the fact that the SR-71 is the fastest aircraft in the world right now, and we haven't built a new one in a LONG time). Then he talked about his work, building year after year on the EZ and other aircraft to become an expert at composite fabrication and aircraft.

      The gist of his talk was loosely - `get out there and do it - and this time STAY`. I'm pretty sure if you asked him why Scaled is running so "slowly" you'll get an earful about how much they've learned. What is missing from Scaled is the money and industry savvy that Elon pumped into SpaceX. Scaled was really only made to win the X prize, and even with Brason on-board hyping the hell out of it, Rutan is not a "run flat-out" kind of guy. A big difference between the software engineer mindset (Elon) and the test-pilot "I damn sure hope this plane flys" aerospace engineers.

    3. Re:Terribly Exciting - 10 years ago by k6mfw · · Score: 2

      Al Stern at SETIcon II said these suborbital flights have generated interests among certain researchers because cost is reasonable and researchers themselves can fly and conduct the experiment. Some sub-orbitals flights might be too low and others get to that sweet spot. Stern also made some mention about sub-orbital flights into areas where meteors break-up which seems to imply gather samples. Although this can be done by remote control, Al Stern says look at university professors, they go to the basement themselves to conduct the experiment (or get a grad student). They do space things by remote because there is no other choice. He mentioned some other stuff (I cannot precisely remember it all) and was quite enthusiastic about commercial space.

      Get the DVD, "Commercial Space and Suborbital Science - Wave of the Future, $10.00, featuring Alan Stern, Peter Jenniskens, Ariel Waldman, David Knight. Moderated by Franck Marchis." at http://seticon.com/products/#category=saturday

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
    4. Re:Terribly Exciting - 10 years ago by peragrin · · Score: 2

      Nasa had an astronaut death rate of 1.5%. For every 100 Astronauts that went into space on top of a giant explosion 1.5 were killed.

      While no where near safe for the general population. It is comparable to every other man rated space fairing vehicle that uses semi controlled explosions to move.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    5. Re:Terribly Exciting - 10 years ago by lennier · · Score: 2

      You do it because the engineering will only happen if it is needed. We'll never figure out how to live in a hostile radiation-blasted vacuum if we aren't even trying.

      And we want to live in a hostile radiation-blasted vacuum.... why, exactly?

      --
      You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  4. These flights have nothing to do really with space by hsmith · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I think the "Space" part of it is a side show to what Virgin is really pushing for.

    The bigger goal, IMO is being able to enable flight from the US/Europe to Australia in a matter of hours by a "plane" jumping into low Earth orbit and circling the globe in 2 hours. Imagine being able to "jump" to the other side of the Earth in an 1 hour? A 2 hour flight to China? Australia? Europe?

    It takes 88 minutes in LOE to circle the globe.

    It would simply be revolutionary. IMO that is the near term end goal of Branson's interest in space flight. I think the "manned space flights" are tangential to what the immediate goals are. Hammering out the science to allow cheap cross earth flights, is simply incredible.

  5. Re:regression by bkmoore · · Score: 4, Informative

    Nope, no X-plane ever made it into orbit. They were very-high-altitude rocket planes, and were much too small to contain enough fuel to reach orbit. More fuel would necessitate a bigger plane to contain it, and hence a bigger motor to propel it, and hence more fuel to run the bigger motor, etc... That's why rockets get around this problem with multiple stages. They jettison excess mass on the way to orbit. A true "space plane" that lands and takes off on a runway and doesn't dump stages along the way would need to be Single-Stage-To-Orbit (SSTO). So far, there are no true SSTO vehicles, even rockets. A space plane would need to haul along landing gear, wings, conventional engines, etc, and would be much more difficult to do than a simple SSTO rocket.

  6. Yawn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The SR-71 was deployed in 1964 and had an operational elevation limit of 80,0000ft. What excactly are we breaking out the champaign for?

  7. Re:These flights have nothing to do really with sp by wagnerrp · · Score: 4, Informative

    There is a vast difference between SSO, or even SST, and what you propose. SSO and SST just go straight up and straight back down. There is very little ground track in their flight envelope. In order to get to orbit, you need to go straight up, and then go about double that to really get out of the atmosphere, and then tack on around 8km/s velocity. You're looking at a few dozen times more energy, and around a hundred times more fuel. A sub-orbital transcontinental flight won't need quite that much, but you're still way up there in comparison. Add in the fact that you're actually going to need a real thermal protection system for re-entry. They're not even in the ballpark.

  8. Re:Not So Sure by confused+one · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's not a jet turbine burning kerosene with oxygen, it is a hybrid rocket motor. It is burning a solid composite material with a nitrous oxide oxidizer. It will never be a "clean looking" burn; expect something closer to what the solid boosters on the shuttle produced.

  9. Re:These flights have nothing to do really with sp by khallow · · Score: 3, Interesting

    They're not even in the ballpark.

    Energy is not hard to come by. SpaceShipOne generated about a sixth of the delta-v it'd need to reach orbit. I consider that fairly close given the type of engine and relatively low mass fraction. SST is supposed to have slightly better performance in that regard. But neither is intended for this particular role.

    But I think naysayers are overstating the difficulty of more delta v and a different thermal protection system. Sure, it might need a radical vehicle redesign. But guess who demonstrated that they can design such suborbital vehicles?

  10. Re:These flights have nothing to do really with sp by wagnerrp · · Score: 4, Informative

    I think you're understating the difficulty of more d-V. Six times the d-V doesn't simply mean six times the fuel. Energy is proportional to velocity squared, so you immediately need thirty-six times the energy. When you factor in the exponential behavior of the rocket equation, and the fact that you need yet more fuel just to take up the additional fuel needed to accelerate the spacecraft itself, your fuel consumption balloons fast.

  11. Re:These flights have nothing to do really with sp by tehcyder · · Score: 2
    Yes, it's a real pity that there's no way of instantly communicating with people on the other side of the world.

    Seriously, apart from the military, who the cares whether they can fly half way round the world in an hour for a face to face meeting?

    If it could be done for the same price as a current air fare, fair enough, we'd all like to get to our holiday destination quicker. But when you're talking about $100K+ a trip, it seems like a tiny and uninteresting market.

    --
    To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it