Slashdot Mirror


Living In a Virtual World Requires Less Brain Power

sciencehabit writes "If you were a rat living in a completely virtual world like in the movie The Matrix, could you tell? Maybe not, but scientists studying your brain might be able to. Today, researchers report that certain cells in rat brains work differently when the animals are in virtual reality than when they are in the real world. In the experiment, rats anchored to the top of a ball ran in place as movie-like images around them changed, creating the impression that they were running along a track. Their sense of place relied on visual cues from the projections and their self-motion cues, but they had to do without proximal cues like sound and smell. The rodents used half as many neurons to navigate the virtual world as they did the real one."

20 of 89 comments (clear)

  1. So you're saying... by filmorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...that by using half the senses you use half the neurons? Next thing you'll be telling me water is wet and earth is round!

    --
    "Hello, IT... Have you tried turning it off and on again? Yeah... No problem."
    1. Re:So you're saying... by ebno-10db · · Score: 5, Funny

      So you're saying that by using half the senses you use half the neurons?

      No, he's saying that computers make you stupid. That's not news either.

    2. Re:So you're saying... by slew · · Score: 2

      PBKAC

  2. Its Specialization by rtkluttz · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As the human species evolves and our technology advances, our ability to be a "jack of all trades" decreases. More time must be spent learning especially focused tasks to the point of expertise. I think this is just more example of that. Yes, a digital world probably requires less overall brain power, but also enables a much higher degree of specificity of focus not possible in the real world. Yes. its probably all being used up on porn.

    --
    Digital is, by definition, imperfect. Analog is the way to go.
    1. Re:Its Specialization by alexo · · Score: 2

      As the human species evolves and our technology advances, our ability to be a "jack of all trades" decreases.

      Please explain the evolutionary pressure (i.e., natural selection) that, in your opinion, drives this alleged process.

  3. Poor virtual worlds by swillden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This just shows that living in a poor virtual world, with less sensory input, requires less brain power. That may be an interesting result, but it's hardly what the headline says.

    --
    Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  4. Missing something? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Am I missing something? "Less input, less activity" seems incredibly obvious. There is value in confirming even the obvious but this seems a bit too far. Plus, the summary is way off since the tested 'virtual world' was nothing of the sort. The Matrix was a full sensory experience, not just a movie.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    1. Re:Missing something? by jbmartin6 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      Yes I was missing something, study was a good bit more interesting than the summary really conveys. from TFA:

      On a real track, the rat's version of that neuron would fire when it had taken two steps away from the start, and then again when the animal reached the same spot on its return trip. But in virtual reality, something odd happened. Rather than firing a second time when the rat reached the same place on its return trip, the cells fired when the rat was two steps away from the opposite end of the track

      See there is value in testing the obvious.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    2. Re:Missing something? by pla · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The Matrix was a full sensory experience, not just a movie.

      Right, but how would we know which senses our reality lacks vs the "real" reality, if inside something like the matrix?

      I mean, as a trivial example, obviously our world left out any input to our hard-to-reproduce sense of squorple. Hell, most people's brains have probably atrophied as a result, and wouldn't even know it if The Programmers did add squorp to the simulation.

      If you had never smelled anything, would you know you had never smelled anything? Hell, deaf people actually form communities around not considering it a disability, and (disgustingly, IMO) consider cochlear implants for their kids a "betrayal" of that ethos.

    3. Re:Missing something? by tehcyder · · Score: 2

      Actually, The Matrix *was* a movie...

      I think we know which colour pill you took.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    4. Re:Missing something? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 2

      Because they were all wearing sunglasses.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    5. Re:Missing something? by mt42 · · Score: 2

      Seems that in the "virtual reality" experiment, the rat views the return trip as a 2nd one-way trip, instead of a return trip. This could be explained by the lack of some sense due to the limited inputs (no acceleration, for example) and the rat brain does not really think it has moved.

      This is one of the most interesting findings of the study. In the real-world the rats turn themselves round 180 degrees when they reach the end of the tracks. In the virtual world, the environment is turned 180 degrees while the rats remain pointed in the same direction. This suggests that the visual cues provided by the rotation of the virtual environment around the rat are not sufficient to persuade the rat that it is now running in the opposite direction. This gets us a little closer to understanding what sensory inputs the rat is using to determine its location. This study strongly suggests that the rat's perceived direction of motion is what makes the place cells behave differently in the real and virtual worlds.

      However, we still don't know whether the rat is using primarily visual cues or primarily self-motion cues. In the visual case, the difference in place cell behaviour between real and virtual worlds might be explained by the rat transforming the visual cues from the side walls to account for its reversed direction of travel in the real world (making the location visually similar from both directions). In the virtual world, the rat might think it is going in the same direction and therefore not transform the visual cues (making the location visually different from each direction). In the self-motion case, the rat could be keeping a "dead reckoning" estimate of position travelled from the ends of the track. In the real world, the rat might increment its position when travelling from left to right and decrement its position when travelling from right to left. In the virtual world the rat might be incrementing its position from the ends in both directions, as its perceived direction of travel might be unchanged. However, this would probably require the rat to reset its perceived position to the "start" of the track when it reaches the "end" of the track in the virtual world, but not in the real world. This may not be plausible.

      The fact that over twice the number of place cells are active in the real-world compared to the virtual world is also interesting. The idea is that place cells combine a range of inputs to fire consistently in one spatial location, letting the rat know where it is on an internal "map" of the environment. The fact that so many fewer place cells fire in the absence of cues from certain senses (e.g. vestibular, whisker, smell) could suggest that that the importance of these inputs varies significantly across place cells. Alternatively, it might be possible that multiple place cells encode unique properties of a location as perceived by different senses. I am somewhat familiar with the literature on place cells, but I am not sure whether we know if each location is uniquely coded for by a single place cell. My understanding is that each experiment can only record from a small number of place cells at once, so it would be unlikely for studies to simultaneously record from different place cells that code for the same spatial location (assuming they exist).

      IANANBIWWS (I Am Not A Neurocientist But I Work With Some)

  5. Nonsense by TWiTfan · · Score: 2

    Virtual worlds teach us LOTS of valuable stuff. How else would you learn that life is a series of staged enemy encounters and occasional boss fights?

    --
    The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  6. I see now by Hentes · · Score: 2

    That explains how some folks here on the Internet are capable to exist.

  7. Sigh. by ledow · · Score: 2

    Define "virtual world".

    If we could replicate all the elements necessary to provide a convincing analog of reality (like in The Matrix, hinted at in the article), then surely there is nothing different for the brain to process.

    I hereby posit a theory that asnosmic animals also don't activate the parts of their brain related to smell, nor those in a smell-free environment.

    However, if we could create a virtual analog of smell that stimulated the smell's senses, chances are the brain patterns would be strikingly similar to "real" smell.

    Like "virtual" servers - we don't have a 100% perfect analog, but we get closer all the time. However, the article summary appears to draw the conclusion that this means we'll never have The Matrix (or similar) because we'd always be able to tell we were in a virtual environment because there's no smell (for instance).

    What we're basically saying is "a rat in a box but with fake images whizzing past it's eyes can smell that it's not in the 'real' world". Which is a bit obvious, and quite misleading to then extrapolate to large things. I imagine any amount of other senses will also give it away too (not least proprioception, temperature sensing, air pressure sensing, etc.).

    What are we supposed to draw from the article? That virtual worlds won't be perfect until we do that? Or that we can't ever have a virtual world that's perfect (which seems nonsense even if it's not possible yet)? Or that scientists conduct experiments where the conclusion is a sure-gone conclusion before you even start and don't bother to compensate (e.g. introducing smells in synchronicity with the virtual world)?

  8. Rats are the worst subject by Rashkae · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Rats have poor eyesight and navigate by smell and tactile (whiskers.). the real story here is that they used any brain power at all.

  9. Matrix was never about only visuals. by sharma.vasudev · · Score: 2

    In matrix you could least feel, taste, smell and die. If there is a true "feature complete" virtual world, I doubt your brain would require any less processing power.

  10. Lets not leap to conclusions here... by Karmashock · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The virtual world that rat was placed in was not a true representation and doubtless lacked all sorts of things the rat's senses expected.

    The conclusion here could rather be that the simulation wasn't very good... not that the rat needs less brain power in ANY simulation.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  11. Re:Brain dead by al.caughey · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yup - but the fact that only half the neurons are firing is compensated by twice the body odor

  12. Re:Brain dead by davester666 · · Score: 2

    That's the smegma!

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!