Slashdot Mirror
Redditors (and Popehat) Versus a Bus Company
Techdirt explains the strange story of a lawsuit-happy bus company in Illinois which managed to tick off a cadre of determined redditors by calling them uncomplimentary names in the reddit forums. This all started when a bus passenger, Jeremy Leval, reported unsavory behavior by a company employee (telling an exchange student "If you don't understand English, you don't belong at the University of Illinois or any 'American' University.") and said so online. Besides the name calling on reddit, the bus company threatened the forum moderator with libel charges, and over insults posted by the bus company employees which the moderator had deleted. Further, company owner "[Dennis] Toeppen threatened to sue Leval, saying, 'The attorneys for Suburban Express are reviewing this incident with a view towards filing the appropriate legal action against this meddlesome MBA student.'" Attorney Ken White of Popehat got involved, though, and asked with good effect whether the company had fully considered the Streisand Effect. The strangest part? Toeppen's former involvement as a domain squatter.
Letâ(TM)s hope the Redittors are more accurate with this "issue" than they were with the Boston Bombers. People seem so willing to take whatever is posted on some web site by people that (right or wrong) have some vested thing in some opinion or view. Sometimes a critical mass builds in the Forums when the actual facts end up being completely different from reality. I wasn't there, Iâ(TM)m not jumping on the Band Wagon until the whole thing shakes out.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
I almost feel... dumber somehow for having read that.
That an intellectual forum of internet posters could degrade to ad hominem attacks instead of reasoned debate.... Is this the /. farm system where we draft our new players from?
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Reddit drama on Slashdot? Is that how hard up for "news" this site has gotten?
I really can't bring myself to give a shit about any of this.
Reddit gets their panties in a bunch over a bus driver in BumfuckEgypt, IL who unsurprisingly is a lukewarm bigot. Why doesn't Reddit ever use their hivemind to affect change for any of the real, substantial problems we have in this world?
Everyone knows if you can't speak Chinese you don't belong in an American university.
but I kind of agree with
"If you don't understand English, you don't belong at the University of Illinois or any 'American' University."
best part is our tax dollars paid for them to be there while our own kids are dependent on how much money managed to save up, or get stuck with a lifetime of debt
So there's an awfully beneficial to the bus company only contract of adhesion which applies when you purchase a bus ticket from these (IMHO) idiots at Suburban Express. The students seem to be unaware of it when they purchase the tickets, and the "contract" allows suburban express to charge them loads of extra money, or "fines" (ohmigod, they call them fines!) for wierd little things. Then, the company takes the students to court for these fines, and probaby schedules the court dates such that the student could not possibly attend the court action, thereby having the student lose by default.
.
There's a very interesting write-up at the Daily Illini about this company and their practices by someone who initially did not believe how bad and wierd (and imho probably illegal) the actions of this bus company were and are: Suburban Express Causes its Own Problems is the title of the April 25th article by Matt Pasquini, an "Opinions" columnist.
Just because you come to the US doesn't entitle you to sue everyone like 'mericans do. It's the internet, a harsh world where being PC is the last thing you'd expect to see.
Suburban Express' marketing department should probably update the public relations checklist:
MEMO
TO: All employees, and particularly boss-type in-charge people
SUBJ: Keeping your feet away from your mouths
Before posting on an online forum, sending an email, or communicating with the press, reread your message. Do any of your statements:
If you circled "Y" on any of these items, please turn off your computer and do not send the message.
Thank you!
~R.P. Choadington, V.P., P.R, H.R., VHS, QVC. esquire
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
we desperately need something new to bash... SCO is dead (or an artificially stimulated fighting zombie at most), microsoft keeps fucking up so much i almost feel sorry for them (almost), google is increasing the linux marketshare too much to call them "really evil" even apple bashing is getting stale since samsung is apparently flooding the market with cheaper-than-i-things (we all knew they would).
we neeeeed something to bash.... a bus company full of lawyers may not be threatening linux, but hey it's still full of lawyers... so commence bashing!
You won't see a post from hueypriest apologizing for that on the front page though, will you?
Be careful who you label a hero.
So I went to school at Illinois, and still live in C/U. We've all known for years just how bad Suburban Express is, but unfortunately there's enough people that don't know, and enough new people each year, that keep them in business. While it's weird that this made Slashdot, it's nice to see them get the publicity that they deserve.
Like the Destructicons, individually they display some fleeting intelligence but when combined together they're dumb as fuck.
I am completely sick of threatened and nuisance lawsuits with no purpose other than to intimidate or force others to make some arbitrary change in their socially acceptable behavior.
Filing a law suit should at an absolute minimum require the plaintiff to pay some costs to the defendant (perhaps the smaller of the legal costs incurred by either side) should the plaintiff lose. This will help to minimize the number of frivolous lawsuits and so minimize the quelling impact of such lawsuits on society.
Threatening a law suit in a public forum instead of contacting the defendant privately or simply filing said suit is nothing more than creating a spectacle trying to achieve the same quelling without even paying the cost to file. As such it should be punishable via a simple civil action with a default judgment (e.g. similar to junk fax) with the fine to be split equally between the wronged party and whomever pursues action to completion.
While we are at it, anyone who threatens or actually does file a suit against an inanimate object should face the same penalty as does one threatening a suit. The penalty should be faced both by the individual and additionally the organization (if any) who sponsors their lawsuit activity and by all their superiors within that organization.
Because the average age of a Redditor is probably 14.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
We have NO way of knowing what truly happened. If I read on reddit that the sun was up, I'd go outside to verify.
MEMO
TO: All persons who claim to be Americans
SUBJECT: Actually being an American, rather than a useful idiot
Before denouncing somebody as a "racist", "sexist", "homophobe" etc, please review your statement and the circumstances:
1. Did you actually hear the offensive speech or are you just jumping on the bandwagon and taking somebody else's word that the offensive speech was spoken? Remember: some people make claims like this as a way to invalidate somebody they have other disagreements with.
2. Are you sure the supposedly offensive comment was truly inappropriate? Sometimes a truly offensive person behaves in an offensive manner which invites a stereotypical response, and when that response is issued we are not confronted with a perpetrator and a victim, but rather with two people who should both be ignored (possibly because they are jerks or possibly because they were normal human beings being observed at a moment of frustration/anger)
3. Before you leap to the position that some speech should be banned, or some people should be denounced for saying things that were "not nice", please remember that the American position is: free speech. "Speech Codes", "political correctness" etc are fundamentally un-American and if you are tempted by them then you need a gut-check. If we only tolerate "pleasant" speech that we like, then we are not really for "free speech" at all. The American tradition is to let people speak their minds; most people will speak politely most of the time and when some speak impolitely we are each free to decide for ourselves whether we like them or not, whether we will listen to more of their speech or not, etc but we do not use the force of government or the power of the mob to shut them up no matter how much we disagree with them.
Thank You for helping us all stay free.
No. To "effect change" means to "bring about change." It's a standard English idiom. To "affect change" is a meaningless expression.
One can "affect change" when some change is in progress, and someone changes its rate or direction.
It's useless though. I propose to declare the use of "effect" as a verb to be obsolete and limited to Internet trolls (it means exactly the same as "cause"), and avoid the use of "affect" in any but the most clear situations ("affect direction of the change" would be clear, "affect change" would not).
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
As I understand it, the state of decomposition of his body suggested that he was dead weeks before the bombings.
I was promised a flying car. Where is my flying car?
Some people are born as idiotic assholes, like Dennis Toeppen, and they remain so their whole life. Must be some brain damage.
I've done some consulting work for him in the past.
Honestly... He's sort of a jerk sometimes, and he makes some really poor decisions sometimes. But he's honest, and he's not a total moron. He isn't suing people to create some kind of crazy profit center, he's trying to deal with people using forged or incorrect tickets to get on buses. People like to point to his (admittedly a little wacky) terms and conditions and imply that he's suing over stupid shit. He's not, so far as I know. He's suing over people who do stuff like print three copies of the same ticket and get on three different buses that are running the same schedule. This isn't about "socially acceptable behavior", for the most part. (Some of the later stuff, like the defamation claims, was pretty dumb IMO, though.)
And everyone jumps in with some "oh, hey, I know how you could easily solve this!" solution. It's like the thing where, if you spend ten years working with doctors to try to treat insomnia, anyone who hears about this will suggest you cut down on caffeine after dinner. Because, obviously, neither you nor the doctors have ever thought of that!
Yes, there really are reasons that checking passengers against a manifest is at the very least a substantially higher cost than the (fairly small, compared to the user base) amount of fraud. Yes, there are reasons it probably wouldn't be a good tactic at all. It's not that he's too much of an idiot to think of this, it's that he has more information about what is actually happening than those of us who are reading couple-paragraph summaries over the Internet.
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
To be fair, the quoted statement is perfrctly valid in itself, and universities, indeed, require an English test for students whose native language is not English, for this very purpose.
I remember that when I arrived in US in September 1993, for a few weeks I could not talk to locals because I did not understand spoken English. I avoided talking to them because I expected it to be too much of a trouble for them to have a conversation with me. Once I adjusted to the spoken US dialect of English, I reached the point when communication with me was worth the trouble, so I could talk to people without expecting them to run away in frustration. That was common courtesy on my part.
On the other hand, if now some ignorant racist fuck will pretend that he doesn't understand me because he can kinda recohnize some Russian accent in my speech, I would tell him to go fuck himself with the Washington Monument.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
I'm sure all the idiots here will only be happy when they are a white minority in THEIR OWN COUNTRY and have nowhere left to run to, and the hate-filled third world invaders have taken their jobs, and are now attacking them in the streets with impunity.
But I am a foreigner living in US, I am white, and I still hate you. Maybe the problem is not with someone's skin color but with you being a racist asshole with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Good luck effecting that...
Yeah, the defamation stuff is dumb. This wouldn't even be in the news if he wasn't trying to start a lawsuit due to some reddit post moderation. The existence of hundred or so other lawsuits do point to some kind of systemic issue but that is beside the point here.
Trying to sue Leval over that 'racist bus driver' posting pretty much makes this guy a jerk.
But I am a foreigner living in US, I am white, and I still hate you. Maybe the problem is not with someone's skin color but with you being a racist asshole with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
He's a fine husband to his sister and often refrains from sodomizing city folk he finds wandering lost in the swamp. That seems pretty redeeming to me.
the company is borderline criminal, almost certainly Republican-linked
If it's a bus company and criminal, that sounds more like Democrat-linked.
"vis a vis"
This isn't France you retard. Learn to speak American and stop being a commie traitor.
OK, I did RTFA, and several linked articles, posts, and blogs as well. And I still don’t get it. I mean, yeah, I get that this is about dick moves by a completely hostile-to-the-customer small business run by idiots, sure, what else is new? But... This is a bus company, right? Typically you wait at a bus stop, and when the bus comes you pay the driver, take a seat, and eventually exit the bus when you reach your stop. Terms and Conditions??? Seriously?? Where and when do these so-called terms and conditions come into play? You’re telling me they hand you a legal document with all the penalties spelled out before they take your money? Because if they don’t do that or something similar, I don’t see how any of this is legal. They can’t just arbitrarily hand out “fines” for breaches of whatever random rules they themselves make up... Can they? I mean, even the old break-open-the-plastic-and-you’ve-accepted-the-EULA situation was never really tested in court, and here there isn’t even a seal to break, you're just getting on a damned bus! When do you even have a chance to read these so-called terms, let alone agree to abide by them? This is crazy! If we’ve really gotten to the point where getting on a bus obligates the customer to pay completely arbitrary financial penalties for various random acts determined wholly by the bus company, well, I’d have to say it’s all over for this country. The lawyers have definitely won.