Ubuntu Developing Its Own Package Format, Installer

An anonymous reader writes "While complementing Debian APT/DPKG, Canonical is now developing their own package format. The new package format has promised highlights of having no dependencies between applications, each package would install to its own directory, root support wouldn't always be required, and overall a more self-contained and easier approach for developers than it stands now for Debian/Ubuntu packages. The primary users of the new packaging system would be those distributing applications built on the Ubuntu Touch/Phone SDK. The initial proof-of-concept package management system is written in Python and uses JSON representation." This quote from the post by Canonical's Colin Watson bears repeating: "We'll continue to use dpkg and apt for building the Ubuntu operating system, syncing with Debian, and so on."

Comments

Re:troll bait headline

[MrEricSir]

Ubuntu Phone apps

Let's be clear: Canonical's vision doesn't involve "phone apps." They want the same apps running on your phone and on your desktop.

Re:More Flexibility?

[girlintraining]

Um, the MS registry is a huge pain in the butt for developers and M$ knows it, but they can't get rid of it becuase its too ingrained.

Hi. Developer here. No, no it is not. Pain in the ass is thunking, handlers that silently disconnect from message pumps, calls to win32 that are "unmanaged" and so often lead to memory leaks even when you diligently try to do garbage collection, undocumented exceptions that are thrown by system calls that even the debugger blanches at, and endless layers of class and interfaces nine levels deep, many of which only document the public methods and tell you nothing else. The registry though? The registry is stupid easy. If you think that's a pain in the ass, you fail as a programmer. Turn in your badge.

Getting rid of the registry was a huge selling point for Windows 8,

So was the 'Metro' interface. And I don't see many people around here talking about how great Windows 8 is going to be -- everyone says it's going to be a three coiled turd. And this is what you use to advance your argument?

I dare you to ask me why... if you don't realize its a huge honey pot for virii and hackers you have no business even asking.

There's no such thing as 'virii' and I don't think you know what a honey pot is. But perhaps you mean it's a rich repository of system and application settings that could be exploited by malicious people? Yes, that is correct. But then, scanning down the C: for a list of filenames can do that too. The registry has a rich set of access controls; Your lack of familiarity with other security concepts suggests you probably didn't know that.

Linux DOES INDEED have a system for library control, its called pkg_config and it works very well.

A tool used to assist in compiling is not a "library control" tool dude. It's main job is to tell whether a library is installed or not, what version it is, and where it is located. It doesn't do much else. It most certainly does not have any management functions.

Its not my problem if developers are too lazy to use it.

*facepalm* Who wrote the applications you're using right now? Are you sure their "lazyness" isn't your problem?

90% of linux apps I've ever envountered use it, so don't come whining to me there's no soluton this lib hell of which you speak.

That whooshing sound is the point flying over your head. 100% of windows applications have to go through the kernel to load dlls, and so it presents a standardized interface for doing so. Linux does not have this. Whether it's 90% of linux apps, or 99%, the lack of a standard means you, the developer, have to guess, pray, or assume, things about the environment. You can't rely on it.

I do quite well with Linux, thank you.

That's nice. I'm a neo-pagan who dances around poles naked, and it works quite well for me. But I'm not going to suggest it's for everyone, or that there aren't occasional problems in going "sky clad" in a public place. The police, for example, aren't as understanding as one might hope.

Look into Debian's CUT project

[neiras]

Except Ubuntu users want cutting edge Debian, not tried and tested Debian...and unfortunately using Debian is not going to make it more cutting edge.

...Now if Debian decided to produce a (stable) cutting edge Desktop version (perhaps working with an existing Distribution team). To complete there ultra stable, you have me sold.

You asked for it, Debian delivers. The Debian CUT Project aims to publish usable snapshots of Debian Testing on a monthly basis. They're pretty new but picking up steam.

Re:Good

[smash]

Which, given most people have upwards of half a terabyte of storage, and the OS consumes only 1% of that, storage space is no longer at a premium.

The benefits of totally self contained packages are huge. You'll probably find that the vast majority of your application is NOT duplicated data anyhow. It will be graphic resources, it's own code, etc.

Couple that with de-dup in modern filesystems (inline still a major overhead, but scheduled de-dup isn't a major problem) and the advantages to just linking to libraries everywhere are not so clear cut anymore.

Having lived with the OS X way of packaging for a few years, and dealt with both Linux, FreeBSD and Windows since the early 90s, I know which method I prefer.