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Reps Introduce Bipartisan Bill To Legalize Mobile Device Unlocking

New submitter tomservo84 writes "It seems some people in the House of Reps have their heads screwed on straight. A bill would 'make it permanently legal for consumers to unlock their mobile devices, and consumers would not be required to obtain permission from their carrier before switching to a new carrier.' 'This bill reflects the way we use this technology in our everyday lives,' Rep. Lofgren said. 'Americans should not be subject to fines and criminal liability for merely unlocking devices and media they legally purchased. If consumers are not violating copyright or some other law, there's little reason to hold back the benefits of unlocking so people can continue using their devices.' Now, what chance does this have of actually passing?"

97 of 133 comments (clear)

  1. No chance of passing by EmagGeek · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This administration is owned by enormous corporations - and Obama just nominated a Telecom lobbyist to head the FCC (after promising during his campaign that there would be no lobbyists in his administration). Seriously. There is zero chance he would sign this bill were it to find its way to his desk.

    1. Re:No chance of passing by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This administration did criticize the Librarian of Congress for the unlocking rules change though.

      --
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    2. Re:No chance of passing by SJHillman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How many things have they criticized about the Bush administration, and then copied?

      Criticism means nothing without actions to back it up.

    3. Re:No chance of passing by EmagGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Agreed. I think "nominating Telecom lobbyist to head FCC" is an action that soundly trumps "feigned criticism of the LoC."

    4. Re:No chance of passing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Maybe the librarian saw that this needed to be codified into law. He/She set the example and authorized it then stopped basically telling Congress to do its job.

    5. Re:No chance of passing by jythie · · Score: 1

      This or any other administration we are likely to see. Neither party is in favor of weakening telecoms and infringing on their 'rights' to do what they like with their customers. While the democrats have more of a reputation for being in the pocket of media+telecom, both parties are heavily influenced by both lobbies.

    6. Re:No chance of passing by Atzanteol · · Score: 4, Funny

      Looking for the +6 mod. WHY IS THERE NO +6 MOD?

      --
      "Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge"

      - Charles Darwin
    7. Re:No chance of passing by oodaloop · · Score: 2

      "Covenants without swords are but words." - Hobbes.

      Not the stuffed tiger, the other one.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    8. Re:No chance of passing by GlobalEcho · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up...the LoC did a great job -- more than anyone else around -- of pushing Congress in the direction of doing the right thing.

    9. Re:No chance of passing by Ian+A.+Shill · · Score: 1

      I thought the other one was Calvin.

      --
      For hire.
    10. Re:No chance of passing by kelemvor4 · · Score: 2

      "Covenants without swords are but words." - Hobbes. Not the stuffed tiger, the other one.

      There's another one? Pssh. Who knew?

    11. Re:No chance of passing by GLMDesigns · · Score: 2, Informative

      Re Health Care: There were numerous proposals - ALL were rejected out of hand. There were proposals such as increasing Medical Savings Accounts and many more. All rejected.

      Re GITMO: Obama had control of the Senate and House for 2 years, plus he can submit an Executive Order. Don't blame anybody but Obama and the Dems if you think GITMO should be closed. In addition to those 2 years of unchecked ability to make a change Obama and his advisors had 5+ years to come up with policies to replace GITMO before Obama was inaugurated. All they came up with was try them in Civil Courts. Guess what. NY is a deep-blue state and there isn't consensus here about that. Add to the fact that most those in GITMO are prisoners of war captured in battle and it becomes even more difficult.

      Should there be trials? Yes. Should these people be kept indefinitely without trial? No. But don't blame Republican intransigence. Have the courage to put the blame on Obama, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi the political leaders of the party in power for two years.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    12. Re:No chance of passing by tatman · · Score: 1

      Agreed. And not just the administration. Congress is too. During election season congress runs around blabbing they are for the people and as soon as session starts, its back to voting for the people that put campaign $ in their pockets. No matter what party, follow the money $.

      --
      I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
    13. Re:No chance of passing by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      So what? Congress should pass it anyway. If he vetos, he vetos. And then Congress will get to call him an obstructionist for a change, and all his cred will be gone. And if it ever got that far anyway (it probably won't) the critters who prevent an override will be hounded until they lose their re-elections.

      You don't simply not try, based on the idea that someone of dubious motive (and dubious level of power) might oppose you. Fight.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    14. Re:No chance of passing by Paul+Slocum · · Score: 4, Informative

      The White House's official position is that they support legalization of phone unlocking.

    15. Re:No chance of passing by Onos · · Score: 2

      "Reps. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA), Thomas Massie (R-KY), Anna Eshoo (D-CA) and Jared Polis (D-CO)" But don't let the facts interrupt your blind support.

    16. Re:No chance of passing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Re GITMO: Obama had control of the Senate and House for 2 years, plus he can submit an Executive Order. Don't blame anybody but Obama and the Dems if you think GITMO should be closed.

      Only partially correct. The opposition to moving GITMO detainees to the United States for trial was widespread and came from both parties. The Senate voted 90-6 to block all funding associated with moving any GITMO prisoners to the US. Blame the Democrats, sure, but also blame the Republicans. Almost nobody in the Senate was willing to see GITMO closed. (See the Associated Press story.)

      And please, let's put that canard about "control of the Senate and House" to bed. Remember that it takes 60 votes to do anything in the Senate, not 50, if there is even one member of the opposition willing at assert a fillibuster. And Republicans used the filibuster a record number of times in 2009 and 2010. According to the American Enterprise Institute:

      "Republicans have ratcheted use of the filibuster up to completely unheard of levels. Look at the things that the House (of Representatives) has passed that can't make it through the Senate. The list just keeps growing," said Norman Ornstein, an expert on Congress at the American Enterprise Institute, a center-right policy organization.
      (source)

      The chart accompanying that article shows 112 cloture votes (used to try to end a filibuster) in 2009. The previous record was 61. Blaming Obama and the Democrats for anything on the excuse that they could have passed Program X when they controlled the House and Senate is flatly untrue. At no time during the Obama administration did the Democrats ever have functional control of the House and Senate.

    17. Re:No chance of passing by Bios_Hakr · · Score: 1

      Probably because of people like "Signal 11" and Jon Katz threads like Hellmouth.

      --
      I'd rather you do it wrong, than for me to have to do it at all.
    18. Re:No chance of passing by sconeu · · Score: 1

      you mean "'rights' to do what they like *TO* their customers"

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    19. Re:No chance of passing by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      While Obama had majorities in the House and Senate for two years, saying he had control is overstating the situation considerably because his majority in the Senate was not enough to force cloture.

      http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-06-16/news/ct-oped-0617-zorn-md-20120616_1_minnesota-democrat-al-franken-filibuster-proof-majority-barack-obama

    20. Re: No chance of passing by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Except, you dumbass, that the telcos have a LAW that says it's illegal for me to do what I want with some equipment I bought. Therefore the feds have to undo the damage by modifying said law.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    21. Re:No chance of passing by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      Only partially correct. The opposition to moving GITMO detainees to the United States for trial was widespread and came from both parties. The Senate voted 90-6 to block all funding associated with moving any GITMO prisoners to the US. Blame the Democrats, sure, but also blame the Republicans. Almost nobody in the Senate was willing to see GITMO closed.

      No. In this case, the GP was 100% correct. The soldiers holding the prisoners in GITMO are entirely under Obama's command. They can block funding for the move all they want to, but short of terminating military funding, they can't prevent the normal operations of the military under the commander in chief.

      So, had the sitting President been willing to stand behind his convictions, he would have told Congress, "Look, we're closing GITMO, period. In 180 days, we're bringing our troops home and abandoning our base in Cuba. The last team will have orders to unlock all the cell block doors, so any prisoners remaining in GITMO at that time will be free to leave. Now you have a choice. Either we begin moving them into proper U.S. holding facilities and give them a trial, or they'll be on boats headed for the U.S. by the following week and suicide bombing your houses in D.C. the week after. Your call."

      And then he would immediately begin the troop wind-down so that they would know he wasn't bluffing. It really is that simple.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    22. Re:No chance of passing by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      True. But on this issue they didn't bring anything up to a vote. There was no proposal in the works. If there was a proposal and it passed the House and failed in the Senate (say 57-43) then ... I would agree with you.

      But they (Obama, Reid, Pelosi) didn't bring up anything that, AFAIK, even got of committee.

      By all this I'm not saying that Republicans are all sunshine and flowers - only that, as far as GITMO is concerned, the blame, if it exists, rests on Obama, Reid and Pelosi.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    23. Re:No chance of passing by somarilnos · · Score: 1

      Not the Protestant theologian, the other one.

    24. Re: No chance of passing by BeansBaxter · · Score: 1

      Yep no wars. No one was shot and killed. No one is fighting against the US. We are at peace. No bombs going off inside our borders. No one killing our ambassadors. There aren't newly armed nuclear armed missiles being aimed at Hawaii. We sit around signing together. Happy happy happy. http://icasualties.org/oef/Fatalities.aspx

    25. Re:No chance of passing by Si · · Score: 1

      stuffed? STUFFED??

      --


      Why is it that many people who claim to support standards have such atrocious spelling and grammar?
    26. Re:No chance of passing by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      It's easy to do what's right when you don't have to worry about the consequences. The difference between a leader and a mere figurehead is that a true leader does what's right, even knowing that the s**t may hit the fan.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    27. Re:No chance of passing by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Life isn't as black and white as you have painted it.

    28. Re:No chance of passing by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Um no. In this case the Congress voted for legislation that contained provisions that prohibited the president from spending money on civilian trials and on prison facilities in the US for the GITMO detainees.

      The vote came up and it was resoundingly against closing GITMO.

    29. Re:No chance of passing by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

      OK. But that shows that there was bipartisan opposition to civilian trials. Therefore it wasn't due to Republican intransigence. Not that it matters but I'm not in favor of civilian trials but I do feel that the detainees should have their day in court.

      --
      If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
      Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
    30. Re:No chance of passing by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Some things are. Holding people indefinitely without trial is wrong. Full stop. There's no grey area here. What the U.S. government is doing is unconscionable, and if the situation were reversed—if Afghanistan or Iraq or some other third-world country were holding our citizens prisoner without a trial—we'd be bombing the ever-living s*** out of them by now.

      With that in mind, it should be self-evident that anyone in power with actual morals and ethics should be gladly willing to lose his or her job if necessary to ensure that such a heinous injustice is rectified by granting those prisoners a fair and speedy trial. And because a statement implies its contrapositive, anyone in power who is not willing to do that has no real morals and ethics, and is merely playing a Christian on TV.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  2. WTF did he just say? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Americans should not be subject to fines and criminal liability for merely unlocking devices and media they legally purchased"

    MEDIA???? No way the media cartels will give up all the monstrous legislation around copyright circumvention.

    Certainly the good Congressman misspoke.

  3. A bit late by diakka · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This bill would have never passed when it actually meant something to consumers. With the plethora of unlocked devices available on the market, T-Mobile has already begun offering favorable deals on no-contract plans where you pay for your own device, so it's only a matter of time before the rest follow suit. If this actually does pass, it just means that the financial incentive to the phone companies was simply too small to justify the cost of supporting a lobby against it.

    --
    -- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
    1. Re:A bit late by Shanrak · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I never understood why they bother to lock the phones in the first place. If you have a 2 year contract, they have your money already for that long. Locking the phone doesn't gain them anything. If you want to unlock your phone and go somewhere else, they just get free money out of you since now they don't have to provide you any service.

      --
      This post may or may not contain cancer causing materials.
    2. Re:A bit late by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I never understood why they bother to lock the phones in the first place. If you have a 2 year contract, they have your money already for that long. Locking the phone doesn't gain them anything.

      What about pre-paid plans where there is no contract?

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    3. Re:A bit late by CaptainLard · · Score: 1

      Sounds about right. Regardless, some quick consoling thoughts:

      "Better late than never"

      "A win is a win"

    4. Re:A bit late by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I never understood why they bother to lock the phones in the first place.

      Oh, I can think of some reasons:
      1. So they can sell the right to install an app on a phone that a consumer can't get rid of.
      2. So they can set up "app stores" that collect a significant cut of whatever the user wants to buy.
      3. So they can prevent third parties from creating and selling alternative services to their own products that are cheaper and/or better.
      4. To reduce the number of ways a user can mess it up.

      --
      I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
    5. Re:A bit late by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 2

      No offense to T-Mobile users, but T-Mobile and Sprint really aren't playing the same game as ATT and Verizon. I doubt ATT and Verizon will make any changes until either they start loosing market share to T-Mobile or the other of the two makes the change first. Verizon isn't going to change their business model if it's not in their best interest as a company. In this case, their best interests may not be their customers best interests.

    6. Re:A bit late by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 1

      They are all valid reasons from a carriers standpoint. The fact that you don't like them doesn't make them invalid.

    7. Re:A bit late by Voyager529 · · Score: 1

      I never understood why they bother to lock the phones in the first place.

      Oh, I can think of some reasons:
      1. So they can sell the right to install an app on a phone that a consumer can't get rid of.
      2. So they can set up "app stores" that collect a significant cut of whatever the user wants to buy.
      3. So they can prevent third parties from creating and selling alternative services to their own products that are cheaper and/or better.
      4. To reduce the number of ways a user can mess it up.

      I am a horrible slashdotter. I did not simply read the article, I read the fine legislation being proposed - as in the literal bill looking to get passed, as is linked in the article.

      As best I can tell, the bill refers to SIM unlocking only, for the purposes of moving a cell phone between carriers. It does not appear to have any accommodations for rooting/jailbreaking/HardSPLing, except to say that you're not infringing if the purpose of rooting your phone is the means to the end of performing a baseband unlock.

      My understanding of this bill is that it doesn't completely legitimize rooting/jailbreaking/HardSPLing in its own right. Resultantly, it doesn't address any of the reasons above, since none of the reasons you state have to do with an unlocked baseband.

    8. Re:A bit late by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I never understood why they bother to lock the phones in the first place. If you have a 2 year contract, they have your money already for that long. Locking the phone doesn't gain them anything.

      What about pre-paid plans where there is no contract?

      Umm...they're pre paid? As in, already paid for?

      You certainly can't get a hardware subsidy for a prepaid phone, and if you choose not to use your remaining purchased time on the carrier before switching to someone else, why would they care?

      The only thing locking the hardware does for them is make it very difficult for their customers to rate shop.

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    9. Re:A bit late by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      Umm...they're pre paid? As in, already paid for?

      In pre-paid phones what is pre-paid for is the service: the minutes, data, etc..

      Just as printer manufacturers can sell printers at a discount knowing that there is a high likelihood (but no contract) that you will buy ink from them, phone companies can discount a locked phone, knowing that there is a high likelihood that you will buy more minutes from them.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    10. Re:A bit late by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Umm...they're pre paid? As in, already paid for?

      In pre-paid phones what is pre-paid for is the service: the minutes, data, etc..

      Just as printer manufacturers can sell printers at a discount knowing that there is a high likelihood (but no contract) that you will buy ink from them, phone companies can discount a locked phone, knowing that there is a high likelihood that you will buy more minutes from them.

      Oh, that's an interesting business model...I don't think that's how it works up here in Canada though. The phones with a prepaid or pay as you go plan are (as far as I've seen) only available at full price, or maybe a *slight* discount if you find a sale. Could be that some of our carriers do the same, I've just never seen that before :) Very weird.

      Okay, scratch that. I just double checked with some Canadian carriers: looks like if you go 'prepaid', you get the phone for about half the price that they claim it's worth when you're paying it off through a plan. Not sure if that's an accurate reflection of the phone's cost, though, or more a way to 'encourage' people to lock in to a term plan. I wonder what the carrier actually pays for the hardware? Googling for unlocked versions of the same models, looks like the average asking prices are much closer to the prepaid hardware price, so I'm thinking that the 'value' they claim for the term-locked phone is just a tad inflated...

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    11. Re:A bit late by MysteriousPreacher · · Score: 1

      Exactly. I never understood why they bother to lock the phones in the first place. If you have a 2 year contract, they have your money already for that long. Locking the phone doesn't gain them anything. If you want to unlock your phone and go somewhere else, they just get free money out of you since now they don't have to provide you any service.

      Locking the phone prevents users using third-party SIMs for cheaper international and/or data rates. For example, O2 in the UK posts a rate of £6 (around $9) per megabyte when roaming in the U.S. It'd be way cheaper to buy a pre-paid SIM, one of which I looked at offers 500GB of data over seven days for just $25.

      It's one of a few reasons that I'm never again entering in to a long-term contract with a carrier. I don't want a gimped phone, and I definitely don't want to be tied to a carrier for anything more than six months at a time. Seems more sensible to swallow the initial costs of purchasing a phone in exchange for this flexibility.

      --
      -- Using the preview button since 2005
  4. CDMA2000 vs. GSM/UMTS by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    There already is a loophole. Devices made for CDMA2000 typically can't do GSM/UMTS, nor vice versa. Even within a particular mobile system, carrier-branded devices tend to have the competing carrier's frequency bands blocked off.

    1. Re:CDMA2000 vs. GSM/UMTS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There already is a loophole. Devices made for CDMA2000 typically can't do GSM/UMTS, nor vice versa. Even within a particular mobile system, carrier-branded devices tend to have the competing carrier's frequency bands blocked off.

      Good point. This is alot like that loophole in the food heating industry. I can't believe you can't turn a toaster into a microwave. I mean they both heat food right.

    2. Re:CDMA2000 vs. GSM/UMTS by JCHerbsleb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True, but I'd rather have unlocking be a technical barrier and not a legal one.

    3. Re:CDMA2000 vs. GSM/UMTS by Qalthos · · Score: 1

      True, but I'd rather have unlocking be a technical barrier and not a legal one.

      Don't worry. If they can't have it be the one then I'm sure they can make it the other.

  5. Game consoles, for example by tepples · · Score: 2

    With the plethora of unlocked devices available on the market, T-Mobile has already begun offering favorable deals on no-contract plans

    Phones aren't the only locked-down devices. Several devices are locked down in a sense even when used on Wi-Fi. These include at least game consoles (PlayStation Vita, Nintendo 3DS) and Apple tablets (iPod touch, iPad mini, iPad), all of which enforce developer qualifications and application restrictions through code signing. I haven't read the bill yet, only the section-by-section summary. But if it does limit the access control provision to facilitating infringement as the summary claims, that would make it easier to convert a locked-down device into a device that respects users' freedom.

    1. Re:Game consoles, for example by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      Phones aren't the only locked-down devices. Several devices are locked down in a sense even when used on Wi-Fi.

      You are confusing "locked down" and "locked to a carrier". If you are not interested at all in a phone but you want an iPod, you could look on eBay for a cheap used iPhone. But because it is locked to the carrier it won't work without the right SIM card. Obviously you can't make phone calls without a SIM, but because of the carrier lock, you can't use it at all. You have to find out the carrier, and get a SIM card, in order for the phone to be used just as an iPod. (No big problem in the UK because most carriers will give you a free SIM card, but if you bought one from a foreign country, it won't work).

    2. Re:Game consoles, for example by tepples · · Score: 1

      Application developer qualifications for the iPod touch are less strict than those for consoles but more strict than those for Android. You have to become an adult, move to a supported country, replace your current non-Apple PC with a Mac, and buy a developer license that self-destructs after 365 days, all to run programs you wrote on a iDevice that you own. Android, on the other hand, offers Android Debug Bridge at no additional charge on every device that ships with Google Play Store, and application development is possible not only with Eclipse on the PC you are more likely to already have but also with IDEs that run directly on the device. You have to be an adult in a supported country to get a Google Play Store publisher license, but that doesn't self-destruct, and almost all Android devices sold to the public support installing applications distributed outside Google Play Store.

      To develop a peripheral for the iPod touch is even more expensive. Hobbyists are explicitly not welcome.

  6. way beyond cellphones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This bill goes way beyond cellphones. According to the summary posted on the linked article, the bill's text "makes clear that it is not a violation to circumvent a technological measure if the purpose of the circumvention is to use a work in a manner that is not an infringement of copyright." In other words, it neuters the infamous anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA!

    1. Re:way beyond cellphones by Jason+Levine · · Score: 1

      That's what really interested me. It seems to apply to media as well as phones. Basically, it says that circumvention a DRM scheme isn't against the law if you aren't also breaking copyright. So if you rip a DVD that you legally own (e.g. purchased at a store) and store that rip on your home server for only you to use, you would be within the law. In addition, DVD ripping programs to help people do this would be legal. But ripping a DVD and uploading it to your favorite file sharing program/site would still be illegal (unless you had the copyright owner's permission).

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    2. Re:way beyond cellphones by mrbester · · Score: 1

      That would be the "fair use" legislation that already exists, allowing you to make a backup copy, right?

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    3. Re:way beyond cellphones by PhilHibbs · · Score: 1

      Yes, absolutely. However, it needs to be made clear that this is still the case despite the DMCA, hence the bill "makes clear that it is not a violation".

    4. Re:way beyond cellphones by Grizzley9 · · Score: 1

      That would be the "fair use" legislation that already exists, allowing you to make a backup copy, right?

      Any "fair use" possibilities get stopped by the DMCA because if it's an encrypted disc you have to first break the encryption which is not protected by fair use.

    5. Re:way beyond cellphones by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      So if you rip a DVD that you legally own (e.g. purchased at a store)

      Hey guys, just wanna step in on a tiny little issue here. The word is "play" not "rip." DMCA doesn't contain a single word that relates, in any way, to what happens to the data after it has been descrambled, or why you were doing that. Indeed, that was the whole problem in the first place. Whether you immediately send the plaintext to a video decoder and show it on the screen, or write the plaintext to a file for more convenient playback later, are legally identical right now: that is, they're illegal unless you have secured authorization from the copyright holder.

      I don't know about you, but back in the day I bought a lot of DVDs, and not a single one of them says anywhere on the packaging or label, that I'm authorized to play it. This bill would make that irrelevant.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    6. Re:way beyond cellphones by mark-t · · Score: 1

      When part of the definition of "infringing on copyright" now includes the circumvention of such technological measures anyways, such verbiage is itself rendered just as neutered as you suggest it might do to the DMCA itself

    7. Re:way beyond cellphones by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      You purchased a license to play the encrypted DVD when you bought your DVD player. If you didn't pay the license fee, then you have no right to play the encrypted content.

      Has anyone ever actually seen one of these licenses? (I haven't, but I've never bought a DVD drive that was marketed as a player, so if the above is true, then I wouldn't have seen one!) Could you (or anyone) post one, somewhere?

      I'd be interested to see which copyright holders have signed that license.

      DMCA requires that authorization comes from the works' copyright holder, not some specs group or patent licensor. And the DVD player manufacturer has no way of knowing who that could ever be. If I ever manage to produce a CSS-protected DVD, there's just no possible way Panaphonics or Sorny could possibly be handing out licenses granted by me.

      Sorry, AC, I'm not calling you a liar or anything like that, but I think you're very likely mistaken. Having the license come with the player just doesn't make any sense at all, especially from the industry that bought DMCA. That whole "without the authority of the copyright owner" phrasing that they made everything conditional upon, is just a totally different approach and strategy than what you're suggesting.
       

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  7. Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by tepples · · Score: 2

    I've always heard it explained that U.S. carriers lock the phones so that they can continue to charge still-paying-off-the-subsidy rates even after the 2-year contract has ended.

    1. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by diakka · · Score: 2

      That is just the tip of the iceberg. The real benefit to the companies is not just the money they make from one individual customer, but by making contracts standard behavior, it makes the market less fluid and competitive. Customers can't easily switch to a slightly cheaper carrier before the contract is up, and so the carriers can continue to gouge the customers and keep profit margins from thinning out over time.

      --
      -- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
    2. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've always heard it explained that U.S. carriers lock the phones so that they can continue to charge still-paying-off-the-subsidy rates even after the 2-year contract has ended.

      As an American, I can say the following. Those of you who don't live in the USA need to understand that everything is different here. Sometimes in good ways, but maybe most of the time in bad ways. Few Americans travel internationally so the demand for unlocked phones specifically to use them in other countries is quite low. For years, even after you finished a contract AT&T and other providers were rather infamous for refusing to unlock your phones. T-Mobile was an exception to this at the time as they had a policy to unlock your phone if you asked them to do so after your contract ended. Maybe it is different now and everybody unlocks when your contract is up. But perhaps 7-8 years ago, AT&T would tell you to suck it if you asked them unlock a phone after your contract ended with them. By keeping the phones locked, they were able to prevent people from moving to other carriers. Many people keep their phones for years after the original contract is done just to save money and by refusing to unlock them, those people found it cheaper to just stay with the carrier that locked them in than to get a new phone and possibly a new carrier. Also, those of you who don't live in the USA would not believe how much all the phone carriers bitched about being required by law to allow customers to move phone numbers to other carriers when their contracts ended. For years this was not possible, so some people also didn't ever change carriers just so they could keep the same phone number. So all this led to a situation where there was little demand for unlocking.

    3. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by MrNJ · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As an American I needed to unlock one of my phone about 2 weeks ago and my ATT contract was not up yet. I called ATT, gave them IMEI and within a minute they gave me an unlock code. I had the same experience previously. Not once was I denied an unlock request. Perhaps if you have the phone by a specific manufacturer, they don't allow unlocking. But it's not ATT's fault.

      --
      I don't respond to or upvote ACs
    4. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by mrbester · · Score: 1

      This is part of the problem with legislation. It should be a case of "if not explicitly forbidden" (like murder) then it is allowed. You know, freedom and all that. Now there is so much "if not explicitly allowed" (like transferring to a different carrier) then it is forbidden that it muddies the waters unnecessarily.

      Instead of adding more contrary viewpoint legislation, existing legislation should be amended to reflect it. In this case it should be "carriers are forbidden from refusing transfers / unlocking". There is no need for extra legislation items to undo existing ones.

      However, there is prior art which pretty much knackers this. The prohibition amendment and its repealing one springs to mind.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    5. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by SuperAlgae · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I got a fully paid phone (won as a door prize) unlocked by AT&T back around 2005, but I had to go through multiple levels of customer support to do it-- took a lot longer than a minute. It is somewhat surprising that they unlocked a phone for you while still under contract, but technically they don't need the phone to be locked if the contract's early termination fee covers the phone subsidy.

      Manufacturers generally have no interest in locking the phone (definitely not to a carrier and often not even the bootloader). It does not benefit them. It's the carriers that want locking and will usually make that a requirement before subsidizing or promoting the phone.

    6. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      it just goes back to the '90s. everything is actually the same, except this one thing: your legislation allowed locked devices and incompatible technologies.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    7. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by stenvar · · Score: 1

      I haven't had a locked phone in the US in 15 years, and I have used every major carrier. If you buy a locked phone on the "overpriced plan for stupid people", that's really your own fault. On the whole, in my experience, US and European cell phone service end up being fairly comparable in price and performance.

    8. Re:Paying off a subsidy that's already paid off by Technician · · Score: 1

      I took my old ATT phone to the store to have them unlock it. They couldn't be bothered to do it. They did however tell me to Google Free Nokia Unlock codes and do it myself. This is an improvement.

      I heard a phone manufacture with rising sales overseas has no US sales because no US carrier will buy them because it has all the carrier's bands in it. The carrier's way to maintain lock-in is to refuse to sell phones that could work on all services.

      If you do buy the phone overseas and then sign up in the US on Bring Your Own Device, you can get service for it.

      --
      The truth shall set you free!
  8. Once burned, twice wary. by woboyle · · Score: 1

    My best guess is that a bunch of our "brilliant" legislators have been burned by this (unlockable phones) and are now going to do something about it! :rolleyes:

    --
    Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
    1. Re:Once burned, twice wary. by woboyle · · Score: 1

      Yeah. Definitely a possibility! :-)

      --
      Sometimes, real fast is almost as good as real-time.
  9. Dear Congress.... by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Simply Repeal the DMCA. Making NEW laws to fix broken ones is not the answer. Start repealing laws that have no use except to force an iron fist around consumers.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    1. Re:Dear Congress.... by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Well, yes, but I'm willing to support this as an interim step (since the actual repeal of the DMCA is a pipe dream at the moment). I think this will have enormous opposition from the content industry and it will take a Herculean effort for this common sense bill to prevail.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  10. Re:He needs to make some changes. by nmoore · · Score: 1
    It doesn't violate copyright, it violates the DMCA's anti-circumvention provisions—exactly the thing that the current proposal would change. Part of the proposed change:

    It shall not be a violation of this section to circumvent a technological measure in connection with a work protected under this title if the purpose of such circumvention is to engage in a use that is not an infringement of copyright under this title.

    Circumventing an access control measure was never (by itself) an "infringement of copyright": It is a separate offense created by the DMCA.

  11. The bill addresses both by tepples · · Score: 1

    You are confusing "locked down" and "locked to a carrier".

    I was addressing diakka's claim that this bill doesn't "actually mean[] something to consumers." The bill appears to address both the concepts of "locked down" and "locked to a carrier".

  12. Repeal OCILLA and Viacom can sue YouTube again by tepples · · Score: 2

    Simply Repeal the DMCA.

    Please be careful in how you phrase that. The DMCA is a bundle of several independent pieces of copyright-related legislation. Repealing the DMCA as a whole would repeal not only the anticircumvention provisions (17 USC 1201) but also the Online Copyright Infringement Liability Limitation Act (17 USC 512), which protects YouTube and other service providers from liability for its users' infringement. Viacom would have cause to sue YouTube.

    1. Re:Repeal OCILLA and Viacom can sue YouTube again by Lumpy · · Score: 1

      I will take that over the abomination that is the rest of the DMCA.
      Same as the PATRIOT act needs to be repealed, I dont care what good is in it, the Evil outweighs the good so badly, that anyone would be happy to trade that.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  13. Public policy standpoint by tepples · · Score: 1

    The issue here is that what are "valid reasons from a carriers standpoint" may not also be valid reasons from a public policy standpoint. Consider a public policy case from the turn of the century: There were valid reasons from Microsoft's standpoint to put restrictions on companies that buy Windows licenses, install Windows on PCs, and sell the PCs, forbidding them from bundling any web browser other than Internet Explorer. Competition regulators in multiple countries put restrictions on Microsoft's marketing of the included Internet Explorer browser to preserve browser choice in the face of such tying.

    1. Re:Public policy standpoint by Farmer+Pete · · Score: 1

      1. So they can sell the right to install an app on a phone that a consumer can't get rid of. 2. So they can set up "app stores" that collect a significant cut of whatever the user wants to buy. 3. So they can prevent third parties from creating and selling alternative services to their own products that are cheaper and/or better.

      While I fully agree that those 3 items are not in the best interest of the customer, I can say that they also aren't "that bad". What you're forgetting is the fact that the average American would rather have ads or extra apps on their phones than pay more money. If you doubt that, let's look at the Kindle. According to Bezos, “No one really buys the non-special offers version,” So if Amazon gives people the choice and very few people pay the extra money to avoid the ads, why so angry at the carriers for forcing the choice on people?

  14. Too differing wireless frequencies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If they're talking about unlocking cell phones from a specific carrier, that almost doesn't matter anymore. With each carrier getting different 4G/LTE frequencies it's physically impossible to easily switch. So few phones are pentaband and all that, the device availability of phones that work on multiple carriers at the fully rated speed is next to nil. If I have to use 2G/3G as a result of switching, I'm definitely ditching my phone and buying a new one at the new carrier.

    This is quite sad after the glorious standardization that was GSM/GPRS. Spectrum sales are bad for freedom.

  15. Re:Only distribution. by tepples · · Score: 2

    Only distribution is covered by copyright.

    In which country? In the United States, 17 USC 106(1) brings reproduction itself under the scope of copyright.

  16. Re:He needs to make some changes. by Qzukk · · Score: 1

    It shall not be a violation of this section to circumvent a technological measure in connection with a work protected under this title if the purpose of such circumvention is to engage in a use that is not an infringement of copyright under this title.

    Yep, that's going to have to be stricken from the final bill.

    -- MPAA

    --
    If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
  17. A big thank you to the Librarian of Congress by GlobalEcho · · Score: 1

    This outcome is exactly what the Librarian of Congress sought when he withdrew the DMCA exemption for cellphones, and I'm thrilled it's working out like this. Many people here complained at the time, but it was obvious to many others how useful the withdrawal would ultimately be.

    Had he continued the exemption, the cause of locked hardware would have remained uninteresting to the public, and ignored by Congress. Now, we have a fighting chance at rational legislation.

  18. This bill is an *excellent* bugfix by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Informative

    Seriously, read it. It starts out by truly fixing some of the most egregious brain damage and expansiveness of DMCA, making it into a legitimate copyright law. The cellphone unlocking technicality is just one a thousand bugs this fixes; the bill would also legalize making/selling/using ink cartridges, legalize the playing the DVDs that you have bought, etc. If DMCA had passed originally in this form, it would be much less destructive and hated.

    After the first part, then it looks like it does something benevolent related to phones specifically, but to some code I'm unfamiliar with. Then it takes a shot at WIPO.

    Overall, this is a no-brainer, and anyone who opposes it, will be outed. That means they'll kill it in some committee, but just in case they don't, remember names and who votes for/against. Reward and punish, based on this one, right here.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:This bill is an *excellent* bugfix by rwyoder · · Score: 1

      Seriously, read it. It starts out by truly fixing some of the most egregious brain damage and expansiveness of DMCA, making it into a legitimate copyright law. The cellphone unlocking technicality is just one a thousand bugs this fixes; the bill would also legalize making/selling/using ink cartridges, legalize the playing the DVDs that you have bought, etc. If DMCA had passed originally in this form, it would be much less destructive and hated.

      After the first part, then it looks like it does something benevolent related to phones specifically, but to some code I'm unfamiliar with. Then it takes a shot at WIPO.

      Overall, this is a no-brainer, and anyone who opposes it, will be outed. That means they'll kill it in some committee, but just in case they don't, remember names and who votes for/against. Reward and punish, based on this one, right here.

      Pssst! Jared Polis is already "out". ;-)

    2. Re:This bill is an *excellent* bugfix by Sloppy · · Score: 1

      You know what? That would be unfortunate and really stupid of the MAFIAA to do that, and yet, if it happened... ok. The scope of DMCA's bullshit is so much wider than the MAFIAA's tiny little suicidal industries. If they want to stay out of the market for a few more years by buying some exemption to common sense, fine. Fuck 'em. But it's not like people who want to legally play their videos, are the only people who have lived under the constant threat of DMCA.

      I just don't want to see the bugfix narrowed so much that it only applies to phones. It seems like phones are what is giving the cause the publicity to get mainstream support (Slashdot's headline for this is just crazy!), but it better not just be phones that get saved, or I'll be mad. I'll be a mad guy on the Internet! I might even post an angry comment on Slashdot! ;-)

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    3. Re:This bill is an *excellent* bugfix by CCarrot · · Score: 1

      Seriously, read it. It starts out by truly fixing some of the most egregious brain damage and expansiveness of DMCA, making it into a legitimate copyright law. The cellphone unlocking technicality is just one a thousand bugs this fixes; the bill would also legalize making/selling/using ink cartridges, legalize the playing the DVDs that you have bought, etc. If DMCA had passed originally in this form, it would be much less destructive and hated.

      Hence the reason they didn't do it this way in the first place.

      "Hey, WTF man? You're cutting my whole leg off here!"
      "Oh, sorry, how about just a foot then? Or, tell you what, let's just take the big toe and we'll call it even, okay?"
      "Ahh, that's so much better, thanks!"

      By making a big show of generously granting people rights that they already had, they can paper over the rest of the shoddy framework (takedown notice abuses, copyright trolling, etc., etc.) For bonus points, they'll have people feeling downright grateful about not being thrown in jail for treating their own purchased media as if they actually own it.

      --
      "I love animals! Some are cute, others are tasty, what's not to like?" - Betsy Schroeder, Jeopardy contestant
    4. Re:This bill is an *excellent* bugfix by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 1

      To be specific, it adds the following text to the anti-circumvention provision of the DMCA:

      It shall not be a violation of this section to circumvent a technological measure in connection with a work protected under this title if the purpose of such circumvention is to engage in a use that is not an infringement of copyright under this title.

      So if you're doing something that's fair use, this provision no longer applies to it. That's a huge improvement.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    5. Re:This bill is an *excellent* bugfix by steelfood · · Score: 1

      Write to your congressperson! Write to your senators! Write to everybody! If enough people write, then maybe there's a chance this will pass.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  19. Re:He needs to make some changes. by Sloppy · · Score: 1

    So unlocking _does_violate copyright.

    No. Violating DMCA and infringing copyright are two different, distinct things. Unlocking phones doesn't, and never has, involve infringing copyright. DMCA prohibited a bunch of non-infringing activities; it did not redefine what was infringing. It's part of the same "title" of US Code as copyright, but it's not the same thing as copyright. HTH.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
  20. calculation by stenvar · · Score: 1, Troll

    I think there's a good chance this administration will sign it and take credit for it: it's popular, yet it's largely a meaningless gesture in the US markets (people are still locked into contracts, and most phones are still incompatible between carriers). That's the kind ot stuff the Obama administration loves to do.

  21. Now is the time to write your Congresscritter by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    If there has ever been something un-american and un-capitalist, then this ban on unlocking. It is anti-competition and anti-innovation, it keeps people from doing their job in a capitalist world (awarding money to those that provide them with the best product) and generally, voting against the ban pretty much means that you're either un-american or in the pockets of some media concern.

    Now try to weasel out of that one!

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  22. HA! by rjr162 · · Score: 1

    I had actually contacted BOTH my state senators about this.. and it was actually the republican's office who told me about the democrat who was introduction a bill along these lines.. and I'm glad to see this news!

  23. MAI v. Peak by tepples · · Score: 1

    reproduction for personal use has already been ruled to be fair use.

    Even reproduction by loading a work into RAM was ruled an infringement in MAI Systems v. Peak Computer because the repair technician who turned the machine on wasn't the same person as "the owner of a copy". This led to a narrow carve-out to address the facts of that case, an amendment to section 117 enacted as a rider to the DMCA.

    If you have a citation the other way for works other than sound recordings, I'd like to see it. RIAA v. Diamond Multimedia doesn't appear to count so much because sound recordings have their own narrow exception in section 1008 that doesn't apply to works in other media.

  24. Better outlaw locking the devices by kasperd · · Score: 1

    Any artificial limitation, which puts somebody else's economic interests ahead of the interests of the owner of the device, should not have been legal in the first place.

    A digital camera, which cannot store more than 30 pictures on a 128MB storage card when using the best quality setting is a limitation which exists for a good technical reason. Such a limitation is not artificial, and thus shouldn't be outlawed. But a digital camera that can only take panorama photos as long as they are stored on a storage card bought from the same vendor and not if the storage card was bought from a different vendor is an artificial limitation, which does not benefit the owner of the camera in any way. It must surely have been a little bit of extra work to implement the limitation in the first place, which is what characterizes artificial limitations.

    Limitations which are there for safety reasons or to improve durability of the device are fine. For example storage media have extra capacity to compensate for imperfections in the media. That the logical capacity is less than the physical capacity is in the owner's interest, because otherwise the lifetime of the device would be significantly reduced. (It is also in the vendor's interest in order to reduce RMA cases. In some countries vendor's are subject to a minimum two year warranty.)

    --

    Do you care about the security of your wireless mouse?
  25. How long until "lease only"? by kheldan · · Score: 1

    If I could think of it in 3 seconds, wireless companies must have thought of it long ago: Change the business model so consumers are only "leasing" their wireless devices, they remain property of the wireless carrier. Of course I and many others would tell the first company that did this to go fuck themselves, but if they all did it at once..

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  26. Just pandering by guruevi · · Score: 1

    If consumers are not violating copyright or some other law, - emphasis mine

    There are already plenty of laws that make such stuff illegal (contract law, copyright law, patent law, DMCA, ...) , this would just be pandering to the voters and not actually establish anything.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  27. Re:A bit late (wrong kind of unlock) by Maxoverdrive · · Score: 1

    All of these can be circumvented without unlocking. Installing CyanogenMod etc doesn't actually unlock your phone, the modem is still locked to one carrier.