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Microsoft Reads Your Skype Chat Messages

An anonymous reader writes "A Microsoft server accesses URLs sent in Skype chat messages, even if they are HTTPS URLs and contain account information. A reader of Heise publications notified Heise Security (link to German website, Google translation). They replicated the observation by sending links via Skype, including one to a private file storage account, and found that these URLs are shortly after accessed from a Microsoft IP address. When confronted, Microsoft claimed that this is part of an effort to detect and filter spam and phishing URLs."

275 comments

  1. Damned if they do... by mystikkman · · Score: 4, Informative

    "New Skype malware spreading at 2,000 clicks per hour to mine Bitcoins"

    http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/04/05/new-skype-malware-spreading-at-2000-clicks-per-hour-makes-money-by-using-victims-machines-to-mine-bitcoins/

    And they try to prevent it by detecting malware and we get headlines like this. Looks like people are on a witch hunt here.

    1. Re:Damned if they do... by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      Fairly sure that intercepting private communications over a network is illegal without a warrant.

    2. Re:Damned if they do... by WillgasM · · Score: 1

      Maybe all those Bitcoins are being mined in Redmond. Nobody else was dumb enough to click the link.

    3. Re:Damned if they do... by afidel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not if you agree to it in the TOS.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    4. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Fairly sure that intercepting private communications over a network is illegal without a warrant.

      Are you daft? It is traditionally illegal for the government to intercept private communications without a warrant. However, Microsoft bought Skype. They own this network. It's theirs to do what they want with.

    5. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure in the EULA for the service you gave them this permission.

    6. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Skype used to have a reputation of using encrypted peer-to-peer transmissions. For this snooping to work, Skype has to route all messages through Microsoft, and any encryption must have a backdoor for Microsoft.

    7. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      What does Skype have to do with ST:TOS?

    8. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not if you agree to it in the TOS.

      Except those can *never* trump national law. If its illegal in law - no terms of service, agreement or contract can suddenly make it legal again.

    9. Re:Damned if they do... by sohmc · · Score: 1

      Illegal for the government.

      The Bill of Rights is a document that restricts (in theory) what the government can do to you. Corporations can quarter troops in your house, limit your speech, etc. You, of course, also have the right to shoot them right in their face. :-)

      --
      We don't live in Shouldland.
    10. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I do not know much US laws, but the TOS/EULA does not override the law in most European countries.

    11. Re:Damned if they do... by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Not if you agree to it in the TOS.

      Except those can *never* trump national law. If its illegal in law - no terms of service, agreement or contract can suddenly make it legal again.

      they don't technically need to intercept it at their end... if the filtering list is built into the client, then they never intercept it anymore than they intercept your typing in order to send it...

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    12. Re:Damned if they do... by mu51c10rd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nobody else was dumb enough to click the link.

      You don't deal with many ordinary end users do you...

    13. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless you are the DoJ... In which case spying on the AP is just fine.

    14. Re:Damned if they do... by Lazere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But it's not illegal. The law makes it illegal to intercept those messages without warrant or permission. Wouldn't agreeing to the TOS be giving them permission?

    15. Re:Damned if they do... by afidel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We reserve the right to monitor our network for the purposes of would fly in most any country. In the EU privacy laws would probably prevent them from storing or distributing the information, but I'd think an automated scan of the linked URL would be fine. If it's not then everyone in the EU can look forward to a LOT more spam and malware since any hosted or cloud scanning technology is out.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    16. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      You've been Scrroooooogled!!!!!!

    17. Re:Damned if they do... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I very much doubt the law says that, if a person sends up to a service that will relay messages for them and explicitly states in the ToS that it may read those messages, that the service is not allowed to read the messages. It's not a service like the post or the telephone system that is regulated under common carrier legislation, it is a proprietary service that stores and forwards messages between subscribers.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most laws that make it illegal to record a conversation are written in such a way that it is illegal without the permission of one or two of the persons involved (aka one or two party consent)... If as a condition of your usage of the service... You give consent for your conversations to be monitored, the law doesn't apply.

      or would you like to cite a law which offers no outs?

    19. Re: Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about they simply write better software?

    20. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Actually as a network operator they are not a party to the private communications carried over the network, so I do believe that they would be in violation. Not sure if the TOS could allow them to claim permission. Seems like a great opportunity for EFF or someone like that to develop some case law.

    21. Re:Damned if they do... by WillgasM · · Score: 1

      Actually, I do. They're all far too scared that viruses are stealing their internets. They're more likely to pester me with every damn piece of spam they receive.

    22. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Skype is a telephony and messaging service, right? My mobile phone carrier is a telephony and messaging service. What's the difference? I know that there are _technical_ differences. If that's what counts, I can't see any laws making sense anymore ("I'm not pirating that movie, I'm just downloading a bunch of numbers and presenting them on my screen in a way that I find nice").

    23. Re:Damned if they do... by Sqr(twg) · · Score: 5, Informative

      Those who care about keeping the contents of their IM conversations secret should not use Skype. As stated in their privacy policy "Skype may gather and use information about you, including (but not limited to) information in the following categories: ... (n) Content of instant messaging communications, voicemails, and video messages"

      The EFF recommends using Pidgin or Audium with OTR encryption enabled, for reasonably secure instant messaging.

      I'm glad the non-tech-savvy folks use Skype, though. If Microsoft weren't able to intercept these things, I'd have to clean out viruses from my in-laws' computers more often.

    24. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well there's a picture of them getting skullfucked somewhere in this thread...

    25. Re:Damned if they do... by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Informative

      (In the US) private entities don't need warrants. Warrants are a control on government. Microsoft can do whatever they want on communication channels they own. You don't have to use those channels of course.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    26. Re:Damned if they do... by Sloppy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Skype used to have a reputation of using encrypted peer-to-peer transmissions.

      That's funny. I remember their reputation always being "no one knows how the key exchange works and therefore nobody can trust it."

      "Encrypted" means jack shit. Skype never had a reputation for being secure because they never showed anyone that they are. With any serious VoIP protocol (e.g. zfone) they tell you how it works. If the design is a trade secret, then it's a scam. You've known that for decades.

      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    27. Re: Damned if they do... by mystikkman · · Score: 2

      Better software how?

      How can you have a general purpose OS with installable programs from the Web, but still prevent malware?

      If the user can install Firefox, they can install malware.

      The only way past this is to lock down the apps the iOS App Store and Windows Store style with heavy sandboxing and DRM, which keeps system modifications out but is very good at combating malware.

      You can install a rootkit on Linux and Android has a huge malware problem, are you implying that they're bad software because of that?

    28. Re:Damned if they do... by Richard_at_work · · Score: 3, Informative

      Google must be fucked then, as they provide antispam and antimalware functionality in Gmail, and have done for almost a decade.

    29. Re:Damned if they do... by ADRA · · Score: 1

      True enough, but I'd say they have no grounds for safe harbour in this case, so wouldn't that leave them open as being a copyright infringement provider?

      --
      Bye!
    30. Re:Damned if they do... by socode · · Score: 1

      To read the message? Maybe.

      But you didn't give permission for them to access any URL in your message, similarly they don't have a right to send a mail as/to any email address you include in a message.

    31. Re:Damned if they do... by Dins · · Score: 2

      And how exactly would I go about shooting Microsoft in the face?

      I don't know...Ballmer's head is a pretty big target... Seems doable.

    32. Re:Damned if they do... by Immerman · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The key phrase is "private communications". If the TOS specifically state the communication is non-private, the laws regarding private communication may well not apply. The US government is currently taking the position that email and chat messages do not constitute private communication and hence do not require a warrant to monitor, do you really think the actual network providers will be held to a higher standard?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    33. Re:Damned if they do... by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but he's just one man - shoot him and another will just take his place. Corporations are people now, right? Doesn't that mean there should be some way to murder them?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    34. Re:Damned if they do... by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Please cite where an instant messaging client is defined as a "network operator" in telecommunications law. Given IM can be implemented with various technologies like store and forward, P2P, or direct client-to-client connection, I'm guessing you can't.

    35. Re:Damned if they do... by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      Looks like people are on a witch hunt here.

      I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. The term "witch hunt" is usually used when the threat being hunted is a phantasm, whipped up from irrational fear and mob mentality. These threats are real and the mob is less aware of them than would be healthy. There is malware spreading. Microsoft is reading your supposedly encrypted comms. These witches really do walk among us. And to the extent that this culture of corporate surveillance is establishing a precedent that will affect future generations more than us; they really are preying on our children.

    36. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      They intercept it if they use it for anything else other than passing it to the receiver. It's not the skype client going to those URLs. It's microsofts system going to those URLs.

    37. Re:Damned if they do... by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      Yep. I'll also assume that Microsoft will create a version of 'Scroogled' for themselves.

    38. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't just do anything you want even if it is your network. There are laws you know, just like you can't share copyrighted material in your own network to other people, otherwise i could just make a client and server of my own (change the protocol a bit), claim it's my network and just do what ever i wanted.

    39. Re: Damned if they do... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      >How can you have a general purpose OS with installable programs from the Web, but still prevent malware?

      How about implementing application-based permissions rather than the common user-based approach which is largely irrelevant on single-user machines? The original One Laptop Per Child OS had such a security system - a program couldn't access the camera unless you explicitly granted it permission to do so. Ditto the microphone, flash storage beyond its own fenced-in storage area, etc. Android is partway there - they list all the permissions a program demands, but there's no way to deny some or all of the permissions, and apps tend to be ridiculously expansionistic in their demands. Upset Avians* needs unfettered access to my contact list, browser history, and everything on the internal storage? Really? If your business model involves exploiting your user base that's fine, just make it up front that I'm paying for this app by letting you track my browsing habits and spam all of my friends, don't hide it in a permissions page almost nobody looks at.

      * I don't know offhand if AB itself demands such broad access, but most apps do.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    40. Re:Damned if they do... by bws111 · · Score: 2

      Why would they possibly need your permission to go to a web site you referenced? If I overhear you say you are going to McDonald's, do I need to get YOUR permission to go to McDonalds?

    41. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whenever people say, "its encrypted" and don't tell you how it works, just assume it is ROT13. This is doubly so when they say the encryption is "compressible."

    42. Re:Damned if they do... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's a distinction between a federated and a proprietary network. When you make a telephone call, your mobile operator may or may not be the responsible for the far end. They are selling you access to a world wide telephone network, parts of which are operated by many companies even within a single country. The rules for this network are defined in part by the ITU and in part by the national laws of the various participating countries. In most of the western world, these place limits on who is allowed to listen in to messages. In contrast, Microsoft is selling you access to a private network that is owned and operated entirely by them.

      The laws apply to federated networks because you may not have a direct business relationship with the carriers for a potentially large part. They do not need to apply for non-federated private services, because you have a direct business relationship with the supplier, in this case Microsoft.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    43. Re:Damned if they do... by KingMotley · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Email spam filters are evil too! My ISP is reading my emails, OMG!

    44. Re:Damned if they do... by FuzzNugget · · Score: 1

      You don't have to use those channels of course.

      Great, what popular IM and VoIP client that everyone and their grandmother uses do you suggest instead?

    45. Re:Damned if they do... by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Then feel free to not use the service.

    46. Re:Damned if they do... by X0563511 · · Score: 2

      Yes, it would.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    47. Re: Damned if they do... by mchugh · · Score: 2

      By "doubly so" do you mean to imply that they use ROT-26?

    48. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, there's a problem. But why do they need to access the links? If it's a link that's been used a hundred, or even just a dozen times, I might understand. But things that are wholly private? Sorry, it stinks so much, my eyes are burning.

    49. Re:Damned if they do... by wertigon · · Score: 1

      Emails are sent in the open - like postcards.

      Incidentally the spam filtering is only a service provided specifically because you as a customer demands it. It's easy as hell to opt-out should you want to.

      --
      systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
    50. Re:Damned if they do... by kwark · · Score: 2

      Users of my mailservers have the ability to turn on/off spam filtering. It's on by default, all we'll have to do is turn it off by default and tell the customers how to turn it on again. Problem solved.

    51. Re: Damned if they do... by recoiledsnake · · Score: 2

      The problems with that approach are:

      1) The programs will get a lot more complex in order to work around the lack of permissions. Example, what if the user denies a GPS navigation program access to the GPS? The program will have to keep prompting the user for the access. What if Angry Birds keeps prompting the user for access to the GPS and refuses to run without it?

      2) The dancing bunnies problem: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2005/07/the-dancing-bunnies-problem.html
      Users have repeatedly shown that they will click anything and do anything in order to get access to the app/program without a second thought to the implications.

      --
      This space for rent.
    52. Re:Damned if they do... by ohnocitizen · · Score: 1

      So we need controls on private entities then. This case might be justified, but having rules to keep a company like Microsoft from acting inappropriately would be a nice thing to have. Also, given the US government's willingness to forgo warrants entirely when interacting with private entities, information they'd need a warrant to get from you, they might be able to get from the company's whose products you use.

    53. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Teamspeak 3. You can host your own server and use encryption.

    54. Re:Damned if they do... by Noughmad · · Score: 1

      How is it private if it's done over their network?

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    55. Re:Damned if they do... by FireFury03 · · Score: 1

      "Encrypted" means jack shit.

      "Encrypted" often just means the connection to the server is encrypted - that prevents everyone except the server operator from snooping. What you really want is end-to-end encryption, but I wouldn't trust a service to be doing that unless they actually said they were.

      Skype never had a reputation for being secure because they never showed anyone that they are.

      Skype did used to ahve a reputation for being secure, based purely on Skype's claims that they were secure. As you point out, they refuse to let anyone actually check their claims, but unfortunately people often take vendor's claims at face value. That was right up until a bunch of people got arrested in China a few years back, after Skype gave the Chinese government access to these supposidly "secure" instant messages - since then it's been quite obvious that there's no end-to-end encryption going on.

    56. Re:Damned if they do... by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Well, if you have a modern browser, there's twelephone/twitter ... I would expect more WebRTC based services to pop up in the near future that are very easy to use/setup.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
    57. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Umm, it's actually illegal if there's a logging service in place if you don't report certain things. That being said, the process is automatic and doesn't have a human element involved. It is more like a spam service than anything else. I'd recommend not talking about hacking microsoft or other plan 'cyberterrorism' activities over skype. Even the voice chats are transcribed and keyword searched. Welcome to the modern age. Ya... I'm not putting my screen name on this for company reasons.

    58. Re: Damned if they do... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      1) Not necessarily. The GPS program can simply say "Sorry, this program will not work without GPS access" when you attempt to run it. Same for any other program.

      2) Yes, definitely an issue. And there's not really any way to protect those who willingly throw away their defenses without also crippling the device for competent users. However, I think there are likely far fewer people that are going to say yes to an OS-based prompt of "This program wants access to your contact list. If it's not a communication program then it probably intends to spam your friends. Do you wish to allow this?" than there are people who just don't bother pull up the permissions list at all.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    59. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That was right up until a bunch of people got arrested in China a few years back, after Skype gave the Chinese government access to these supposidly "secure" instant messages - since then it's been quite obvious that there's no end-to-end encryption going on.

      This is not accurate. What happened was that Skype allowed China to distribute their own version of Skype to remain in compliance with Chinese law. In fact, in China if you try to visit Skype.com you are redirected to skype.tom.com. Indeed, the version distributed by "TOM Online" is not secure by design. A long time ago I had a paper that detailed some of the inner aspects of Skype's protocol. Wish I could find it, but you'd find if you use a packet sniffer (Wireshark for example), at least Skype is NOT sending messages in plain text or html.

    60. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using your anology:

      Yes you would because you'd be using AC's car (Microsoft's network) to go to the McDonald's (the location you want to deliver your message.)

      If you didn't want to ask permission, you'd setup your own network connection (your own car) to send the message (go to McDonald's.)

    61. Re:Damned if they do... by Ian+A.+Shill · · Score: 1
      I know I'm going to regret being modded as funny. I want everyone to know that this is just a random thought, *not* an attempt at humour:

      "Oh, I don't know. Take him hunting with Dick Cheney?"

      And how exactly would I go about shooting Microsoft in the face?

      I don't know...Ballmer's head is a pretty big target... Seems doable.

      --
      For hire.
    62. Re:Damned if they do... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Thats not the issue. The issue is, Skype was supposed to have end-to-end encryption.

      If they can read the links-- for whatever purpose-- that is effectively false.

    63. Re:Damned if they do... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Thats not a legal argument, its you conceding that their service is worth their price (access to your communications).

      There is no legal requirement that you have access to an alternate VoIP service.

    64. Re:Damned if they do... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      That has always been true, but the claim by MS / Skype was that the encryption WAS end-to end.

    65. Re:Damned if they do... by Code+Yanker · · Score: 1

      Once they start scrubbing the data to "improve the relevance of targeted advertising" I might start worrying. I'm not cool with advertisers being able to bid on my screen real-estate based on what I write in private messages. MS, Google, Yahoo filtering scam and spam? That is perfectly expected behavior.

    66. Re: Damned if they do... by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Programs themselves cant know whether they will work without access to something unless the dev tells it that. Sort of like how a program cant know what dependencies it needs; someone else has to package it into a format that has that info.

    67. Re:Damned if they do... by Nerdfest · · Score: 0

      Microsoft targets ads based on your content as well. You should have started worrying years ago. I saw another think here where MS had actually been caught selling *data* to outside interests, not just targeting ads. If you're trusting MS over Yahoo, Google, or pretty much anyone else, you're not very familiar with their historical behaviour.

    68. Re:Damned if they do... by interval1066 · · Score: 1

      So we need controls on private entities then.

      We already do, its called the criminal code (or penal code, i.e; laws).

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    69. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes.

      In general, giving a person access to a URL doesn't imply that the site owner has also given permission for Microsoft to access it via automatic methods.

      The URL might be marked with robots.txt, it might not be publicly linked, or it might even refer to a one-time URL (GUID for a cinema ticket one-time download).

    70. Re:Damned if they do... by bws111 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nope. First, if you don't want your site open to the public, protect it. There is no indication that MS tried to get around any authentication methods or used false credentials to gain access to the site.

      Second, robots.txt is a convention and nothing else. Nobody is required to abide by it, and there certainly is no law against ignoring it.

      Third, the article said the requests came in 'several hours' after the messages were sent, so any one-time URLs should have already been used or expired.

      Last, and most importantly, any questions of improper access would be strictly between MS and the web site owner, not some third party who happened to reference the URL. Granted, in some (very few) cases the web site owner and the third party can be the same person, but even then the person would have to be acting in the capacity of web site owner. not Skype user.

      So no, they do not need the permission of the Skype user to access the URL.

    71. Re:Damned if they do... by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Microsoft targets ads based on your content as well.

      Bullshit. MS does not show ads based on the contents of your email.

      I saw another think here where MS had actually been caught selling *data* to outside interests, not just targeting ads.

      Lol. People can *say* they've seen anything, doesn't make it true.

      Provide a link so that those of us that have to read your assertions can make up our own minds instead of just taking your word for it.

      If you're trusting MS over Yahoo, Google, or pretty much anyone else, you're not very familiar with their historical behaviour.

      MS has done a lot of horrible things, but protecting user privacy has been better than average. And the reasoning behind this is pretty simple: MS makes their money by selling (and now, subscriptions to) software. That's their bread and butter, and where they are going to focus.

      I don't like the company much, and don't generally prefer their products, but let's not be fanboys and make up shit just because we don't like the company, ok?

    72. Re: Damned if they do... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Obviously, what's your point? Programs can't do *anything* except what the devs tell them how to do, how is "check for permission X and complain if not granted" something special?

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    73. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to regret being modded as funny.

      Fortunately, it didn't happen.

    74. Re:Damned if they do... by node+3 · · Score: 1

      I figured I'd follow up on your post than on mine. I've found an article that obliquely mentions targeted ads for Outlook.com: nbcnews.com

      It's not very meaty in terms of evidence or details, but definitely concerning. Before I made my first reply to you, I checked my Outlook.com inbox to see if the ads were contextual, and they most certainly weren't, but I almost never use that address, so it's hard to be sure.

      However, if that article is correct about targeted ads, then you're quite correct in your first sentence. I'm still interested in reading about MS "selling *data* to outside interests".

    75. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, he's saying Microsoft is doing the good, reasonable thing by decrypting and reading your encrypted comms, and using the fact that malware is spreading as a jsutification for why that's reasonable.

      GIVEN the (IMO very wrong) assumption that malware justifies Microsoft's snooping, and that we can trust MS, Google, or whoever damn else to only use information gathered for those purposes, then OMG MICKEYSHAFT'S REEDIN MAH EMAILS!!!! is a phantasmic threat, and the internet getting out the ol' pitchforks and torches is a witch hunt.

      So GP's using "witch hunt" exactly correctly, in describing the scenario he perceives; I just dispute the relation of his perception to reality.

    76. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suggest they call it "Microshafted".

    77. Re:Damned if they do... by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

      No, Microsofts not damned because of the malware. Malware's the price of a free and open internet. We've got to deal with it. Corporations monitoring my encrypted network traffic is not a fair trade for being free from malware.

    78. Re:Damned if they do... by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      They might if they had a bug in your house. :D

      But I agree, this is a non-story. "Company filters messages for spam. Next up a water skiing squirrel."

    79. Re:Damned if they do... by caluml · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I once renamed shutdown.exe from the Windows resource kit to DONOTRUN.exe, and sent it in a mail round to the company (in the I love you/Melissa days), warning people in the subject, and message to NOT RUN THE ATTACHED attachment.

      People then started coming to me complaining they'd lost work because their computer had shutdown.

      It's amazing, it really is.

    80. Re:Damned if they do... by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 1

      Pidgin!

      Well, if my name were "Everyone" cause my grandma uses it. Well, actually I got my dad to use it, but if my grandma lived and had a computer, I would have hooked her too.

      It works with GoogleTalk accounts too.

      Anyways, I use it. and THAT should be enough for the world.

      --
      I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
    81. Re:Damned if they do... by cgimusic · · Score: 1

      It is useful to know about malware spreading through Skype but I am pretty sure no one blames Microsoft for it. Malware spreads through the web too but I don't see anyone hating on Tim Berners-Lee for it. I feel fully entitled to blame Microsoft for snooping on private conversations however.

    82. Re:Damned if they do... by andy_t_roo · · Score: 3, Insightful
      the other thing here is this only makes it clear that the link is "accessed" -- it's quite possible that the link is not persisted in any way. In that case this would just be an automated part of the message passing process, and not a record of the conversation.

      It depends on if skype is sending all chats, or just the links. It depends on if microsoft is archiving what it receives or just checking them for malware. As usual, more information is required to make an informed judgement on this issue.

    83. Re:Damned if they do... by postbigbang · · Score: 2

      No.

      This isn't "Company filters messages for spam"

      This is: private IMs between parties are tested for whatever reasons without the consent of the parties when accessed over the Skype transport.

      1) Communications are being filtered and parsed, perhaps not in real-time. In the US, one would suspect the TSA, DHS, etc.

      2) After parsing, found URLs are then tested for whatever purposes as though they were a random third party-- which they are not.

      3) ToS or not, the repurposed communications are used in possible ToS violations, along with IP ambiguities.

      Finally, it opens doubts as to other components of Microsoft's integrity, which they've been trying to rebuild. So much for that.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    84. Re:Damned if they do... by vux984 · · Score: 1

      How are they intercepting private communications?

      This is the same as your ISP running your mail through an antivirus / antispam / antiphishing tool.

      You think that's illegal and requires a warrant?

    85. Re:Damned if they do... by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Skype messages are sent in the open - like postcards.

      And please tell me how to opt out of the spam filtering service on AOL (Which has been doing it for 15+ years?) or some of the other large email providers. Oh wait, you can't completely opt out of many of those either.

    86. Re:Damned if they do... by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      That only applies to those below a certain income or other social status level.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    87. Re:Damned if they do... by Elldallan · · Score: 2

      Except that at least in parts of the world the ToS does not constitute a legally binding agreement and thus unless they receive your permission by other means they're still not permitted to do these things

    88. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft bought Skype. They own this network. It's theirs to do what they want with.

      They just license their OS to you as well, so they also own the instance running on your computer. It's theirs to do what they want with.

      If you're using a Microsoft OS, you're choosing not to be private.

    89. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They also make no secret that they read your emails and attachments.

    90. Re:Damned if they do... by Caesar+Tjalbo · · Score: 1

      Post lots of links to malware. Shouldn't be too hard, it's Microsoft snooping.

      --
      "I'm not much interested in interoperability. I want substitutability. I want to be able to throw your software out."
    91. Re:Damned if they do... by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Great, what popular IM and VoIP client that everyone and their grandmother uses do you suggest instead?

      SMS/phone?

    92. Re:Damned if they do... by Xest · · Score: 2

      "Nope. First, if you don't want your site open to the public, protect it. There is no indication that MS tried to get around any authentication methods or used false credentials to gain access to the site."

      I actually agree with you but various governments including the US don't see things this way given that people have been punished for accessing publicly accessible unprotected US government resources and for port scanning. The issue therefore becomes one of double standards - if Microsoft complained to the police that someone accessed one of their systems that had no security in place and was public facing but wasn't publicly listed anywhere then the police would likely chase up that person. If however Microsoft did the same as in this case and accessed someone elses not publicly listed URL and they complained to the police I'd wager absolutely no one would bother to try and chase it up with Microsoft.

      Most computer crime statues across the globe simply make "unauthorised access" illegal - if you didn't give Microsoft permission then by law that's unauthorised access.

      It sucks that the law is this way because personally I believe that if it's public facing and not protected it's fair game. I even believe this should apply to things like photos too frankly - if you publish it publicly on the net there should be no limitation on others using it on the net because the web was designed this way - for information sharing and linking yet there are people who complain about this. If you don't want others to link to a photo you have and embed it in their document then you should secure it. The onus should be on you to protect it. The public internet should be fair game for anyone wanting to use and reuse the information available and anything someone doesn't want public should be made private or otherwise secured. This makes far more sense because it's both how the internet was designed and how it works in reality (regardless of what the law says).

    93. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, sure they can see the messages, but actually accessing the URL could be considered unauthorized access of a computer system...

    94. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, I do. They're all far too scared that viruses are stealing their internets. They're more likely to pester me with every damn piece of spam they receive.

      My parents are too scared to update Java when prompted, but if some red blinking banner add says "Your computer is infected by 171321 viruses, install our software now to remove it for free!!!.", their first instinct is to install that program from that vendor that is kind enough to help them remove those viruses.

      And then they will use the same computer for online banking....

    95. Re:Damned if they do... by airdweller · · Score: 1

      Are _you_ daft? Do you think FedEx can open the mail they carry b/c it's on their trucks?

    96. Re:Damned if they do... by phands · · Score: 1

      This is exactly the kind of thing M$ complain about in Google. M$ are at best hypocritical.

    97. Re:Damned if they do... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Brick up a kilo of powdered sugar and tell us how many samples are taken in FedEx/US mail etc. Best to add a $20 to the package so the dogs detect cocaine.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    98. Re:Damned if they do... by phands · · Score: 1

      And it looks like what they're doing DOESN'T help detect malware... http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with-care-Microsoft-is-reading-everything-you-write-1862870.html >>>>>> "Skype may use automated scanning within Instant Messages and SMS to (a) identify suspected spam and/or (b) identify URLs that have been previously flagged as spam, fraud, or phishing links." A spokesman for the company confirmed that it scans messages to filter out spam and phishing websites. This explanation does not appear to fit the facts, however. Spam and phishing sites are not usually found on HTTPS pages. By contrast, Skype leaves the more commonly affected HTTP URLs, containing no information on ownership, untouched. Skype also sends head requests which merely fetches administrative information relating to the server. To check a site for spam or phishing, Skype would need to examine its content.

    99. Re:Damned if they do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      is it really illegal? MS Isn't the government here, and every ISP, if they are smart, monitors and keeps some logs to help them in keeping your service running smoothly. this isn't really the same thing as wiretapping, and since skype connects through a Microsoft Server now, I fail to see how this argument holds water.

  2. Link to English version of TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
    1. Re:Link to English version of TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      http://h-online.com/-1862870

      Amusingly, following this article saying Microsoft automatically scans URLs on Skype instant messaging to check for malware and spam, the next article down in the same newssource is "Trojans conceal themselves using instant messaging protocols" http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Trojans-conceal-themselves-using-instant-messaging-protocols-1789045.html

  3. So much for the "MS cares for your privacy". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Knew they were lying.

    1. Re:So much for the "MS cares for your privacy". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you didn't presume they were lying out their asses on pretty much everything they say, you're a fool.

    2. Re:So much for the "MS cares for your privacy". by drakaan · · Score: 2

      "Don't get Scroogled^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HMicrosofted!"

      --
      "Murphy was an optimist" - O'Toole's commentary on Murphy's Law
    3. Re:So much for the "MS cares for your privacy". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you didn't presume they were lying out their asses on pretty much everything they say, you're a fool.

      There's a difference between "presume" and "have proof". The former is what bitter conspiracy-theory losers use. The latter is what matters.

    4. Re:So much for the "MS cares for your privacy". by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Informative

      https://www.eff.org/who-has-your-back-2013

      Microsoft is extremely hypocritical in their claims of privacy protection, and their attacks on Google.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    5. Re:So much for the "MS cares for your privacy". by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Knew they were lying.

      Spam filters and malware scanning is different from scanning your email for keywords, storing them in your user profile, and showing you ads.

      One serves the end user, the other serves the company. That is a huge difference. Of the two, in terms of privacy, MS is much more sincere and honest about it. Too bad the company itself has a long history of otherwise inappropriate behavior and (generally speaking) inferior products and services (outside of the corporate world).

    6. Re:So much for the "MS cares for your privacy". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the meaning of "who has your back" has changed in subtle but important ways over time... it now seems to mean "bend over and say you enjoy it".

  4. Alternate headline by recoiledsnake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Alternate headline: Microsoft protects hundreds of millions of Skype users by going to the effort of checking even https URLs in chat for malware and spam

    --
    This space for rent.
    1. Re:Alternate headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yea. very bad headline here for this article...

      expect such a sensationalistic headline on the front page of a dead tree paper, or used as a teaser on fox news.. but slashdot editors *should* know better... will check back and compare it to the headlines used for the dupes next month.

    2. Re:Alternate headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Soon, they will apply the same rules to files transfer as to outlook ... No .exe, no .zip with password, no .bat ...

    3. Re:Alternate headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem with that, according to TFA, is that they only check https but not http. The latter being what malware sites use.
      Also, they are sending HEAD requests, not GET. They are only getting the headers, not the content, so have no way of knowing if there is malware at the URL.

    4. Re:Alternate headline by bws111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Since you don't have any way to know exactly what they are doing, it is kind of silly to call that a 'problem'. Maybe they only do a HEAD because the response indicates authorization is required. Maybe they only visit a URL once, and already have visited the http site. Maybe they only do anything if something else triggers it (number of hits on a URL in a certain amount of time). You have no way of knowing that they only check https, you just know that in this particular case they only checked https. You have no way of knowing that that only get the headers, just that in this particular case they only got the headers.

    5. Re:Alternate headline by LordLimecat · · Score: 1

      Third headline: Skype's claims of end-to-end encryption are effectively false and your communications are actually only as private as Microsoft wants them to be.

      So if youre a dissident in Russia, probably you want another communication channel.

    6. Re:Alternate headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, maybe he has Skype and has tried by sending URLs to his own web server. Microsoft may have a black box doing the malware detection, but he might be experimentally determining what that black box is doing.

    7. Re:Alternate headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So do Firefox and Chrome if you let them.

    8. Re:Alternate headline by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      So if youre a dissident in Russia...

      Man! You are old...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. This is news? by csumpi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    AOL reads your messages. Google reads your messages. Facebook reads your messages. Apple reads your messages. Microsoft reads your messages.

    How is this news? The price for free IM is that they read your messages and sell the info they gather to advertisers.

    1. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Except not. As far as Microsoft has announced, they don't mine your messages for advertising's sake (if they did, their entire "Scroogled" campaign would be hugely hypocritical and I'm sure someone would have called them on it). This is exclusively scanning for a URL and matching against a database - they're not saving any information about your messages, especially if they don't contain a link.

      I'd say "take your FUD elsewhere", but this is Slashdot and a post about Microsoft...

    2. Re:This is news? by RedK · · Score: 1

      Actually, no one sells the information they gather to advertisers, that's just bad business. What they sell is ad placement based on the information they've gathered. The advertiser has no access to it.

      --
      "Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
      Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
    3. Re:This is news? by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except Microsoft does mine your email context to serve up contextual ads.

      http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/microsofts-new-outlook-mail-welcome-hotmail-replacement-917473

      They says theirs isn't as deep, so it respects your privacy more, but what it really means is that they're not as good at serving up contextual ads, but they're still scanning your email.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    4. Re:This is news? by Enderandrew · · Score: 4, Informative

      http://rt.com/usa/yahoo-microsoft-campaign-political-862/

      Microsoft has been caught selling DATA to advertisers.

      And they have a patent specifically covering selling your personal private data to advertisers, allowing advertisers to bid on that data.

      http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/blog/techflash/2010/02/gates_ozzie_other_microsoft_execs_patent_personal_data_mining.html

      It is only bad business if the media calls them out on it, which hasn't really happened. That is why Microsoft spends a small fortune on astroturfing, shifting the focus on Google for privacy concerns.

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
    5. Re: This is news? by AvitarX · · Score: 2

      Interesting, didn't realize they needed to visit a site for a database lookup.

      I would consider a private URL to an SSL site the equivalent to a password (the GET part being just as encrypted as the POST or a session cookie), that they would visit these sites is shocking to me.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    6. Re:This is news? by c · · Score: 1

      AOL reads your messages. Google reads your messages. Facebook reads your messages. Apple reads your messages. Microsoft reads your messages.

      How is this news? The price for free IM is that they read your messages and sell the info they gather to advertisers.

      Microsoft's recent ad campaign suggesting that Google reading your messages is somehow unethical make it news, I'd imagine.

      There *may* be some moral difference between reading your messages for your protection versus reading your messages to target ads, but I doubt that Microsoft bothered to make that distinction when they were complaining about Google's practices.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    7. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let me explain it to you in a hyperbole, you UTTER MORON:

      Person 1 raped a child. Person 2 raped a child. Person 3 raped a child. Person 4 raped a child.

      How is this news?

      Person 5 RAPED A CHILD! THAT MAKES IT NEWS! ALWAYS

      Same thing with all other evildoings. It is ALWAYS news.

    8. Re:This is news? by Bob9113 · · Score: 1

      How is this news? The price for free IM is that they read your messages and sell the info they gather to advertisers.

      At least one way it is news is that it is verifiable empirical evidence that can be shown to the huge portion of people who still think, "Oh, sure, you and your tin-foil hat. Maybe it is possible, but they aren't reading my communications. They can't be monitoring everyone."

    9. Re: This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the way i see it, any site on the public internet is fair game. if you put it out there, i don't think you should ever assume no one but the person you give the link to will go there.

    10. Re:This is news? by FuzzNugget · · Score: 1

      As far as Microsoft has announced, they don't mine your messages for advertising's sake

      Right, except that they do.

      I was chatting with my boss via Skype about hard drives and after a minute or two, there is a contextual ad about hard drives in the Skype UI.

      Not mining for ad purposes, my ass.

    11. Re: This is news? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      What is the public internet?

      If I have a private link https://domain.com/afdcp43q43p43wqpmcdcmcpqc3poicq it is every bit as secure as a site with a password, or do you mean public internet as in the internet is public, and therefore you have access to everything?

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    12. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But I have it from commercials and ads that Microsoft does not read my stuff. How can this be wrong!

    13. Re:This is news? by gnunick · · Score: 1

      This is exclusively scanning for a URL and matching against a database

      Did you RTFSummary? The web servers hosting the content are getting requests from Microsoft! The only thing exclusive about it is Skype's monopoly.

      --
      I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
    14. Re:This is news? by node+3 · · Score: 1

      There *may* be some moral difference between reading your messages for your protection versus reading your messages to target ads, but I doubt that Microsoft bothered to make that distinction when they were complaining about Google's practices.

      Um, that is the exact distinction they made in their Scroogled campaign. It's the entirety of their whole argument against Gmail!

    15. Re:This is news? by Phil+Urich · · Score: 1

      AOL reads your messages. Google reads your messages. Facebook reads your messages. Apple reads your messages. Microsoft reads your messages. How is this news? The price for free IM is that they read your messages and sell the info they gather to advertisers.

      I'd be more okay with it if all these vendors offering free services didn't leverage-out the ability of a person to run their own IM servers. They lock down interoperability (with the partial exception of Google) and promote their proprietary-but-"free" IM solutions. I don't know about you, but I happen to want to talk to people who aren't bearded FOSS hippies like myself, and most people use these services . . . so it's not just "you didn't pay for it, so you're the product, shut up."

      --
      I remember sigs. Oh, a simpler time!
    16. Re:This is news? by adisakp · · Score: 2

      Microsoft has been caught selling DATA to advertisers.

      When you are using "FREE" SERVICES (FaceBook, GMail, Google Seach, Yahoo, etc), then you need to realize that *YOU* are the product being sold.

    17. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AOL reads your messages. Google reads your messages. Facebook reads your messages. Apple reads your messages. Microsoft reads your messages.

      How is this news? The price for free IM is that they read your messages and sell the info they gather to advertisers.

      ... because they are running an ad campaign in the UK stating how important our privacy is to them, kind of ironic really. I saw the ad last night and was going to Google Microsoft + privacy breaches today but this appeared first!

    18. Re:This is news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False. Using Google as an example, they do not sell the info they gather to advertisers; this is a common misconception.

      These sorts of advertising companies serve as middlemen, not salesmen. If Audi wants to target 18-35 year old women with an interest in pink cars, they say so. The advertising company, like Google, goes from there.

      Google does NOT provide advertisers with user info, only to have Audi say "Aha! We should be targeting 18-35 year old women with pink Audis!"

      On the other hand, I still find it creepy that these companies have these detailed profiles of me. But it's not true that these companies sell those profiles to advertisers -- reputable companies don't.

    19. Re:This is news? by Enderandrew · · Score: 1

      Microsoft and Yahoo when contacted admitted to having this service that matched internet accounts to voting lists so that political parties could target you online.

      http://content.usatoday.com/communities/technologylive/post/2012/06/microsoft-yahoo-sell-tracking-data-to-political-campaigns/1#.UZUsm8XA9yV
      http://www.propublica.org/article/how-microsoft-and-yahoo-are-selling-politicians-access-to-you

      --
      http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
  6. ...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They automatically run links through spam filters to detect spam. Spam is a big problem on Skype, it makes sense they would do this.

    I know it's hard to believe, but guess what, your emails are scanned for spam too!

  7. Don't get SCROGGLED! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let us do the Scroggling!

  8. Fishing URLs? by Alter_3d · · Score: 1, Funny

    Damn you Microsoft, what is wrong with fishing?? after this probably hunting URLs will be frowned upon by skype

  9. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wish Twitter did this too. So much spam would disappear, especially the ones that hide behind URL masking/shortening services.

    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wish I had mod points today. This is (about) the only sane comment in the whole thread.

  10. DUH by eviljav · · Score: 1

    Of course they do this.
    Every online chat service reads your messages.

  11. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

    They should also scan emails for egg, bacon, spam and sausage.

  12. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 2

    It's one thing to run links through spam filters, it's quite another to access those links directly.

    "Hey Joe, we'll be running up the new turbine tomorrow. It's a new system so we've put in a kill switch. Access http://system.aviationco.com/automation/stop?user=joe&pass=uhoh" But don't use it unless, you have to, it drops a rod in the turbine and that's 50,000 bucks a pop".

  13. I like fishing by SmSlDoo · · Score: 1

    Not a huge fan of Phishing though...

  14. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by CRCulver · · Score: 1

    A company that would send usernames and passwords over Skype instead of its own company-internal messaging setup, deserves to lose 50 grand for its stupidity.

  15. Re:Is there any way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Both Facebook and Google's chats use bog standard XMPP (aka Jabber). Normal, clueless people use Facebook to chat. The few that don't use Facebook use the chat inside Gmail, or the one installed on their smartphone. Encryption over XMPP is very common; You'd need to use a non-standard client (say, Pidgin), but it's feasible.

  16. Retards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    LOL ! The least they can do is get an IP address in someone else's name. Retards !

  17. Problems with closed sorce by stewsters · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is the problem with closed source. You don't know what your software is doing, and its difficult to figure out.
    Just in case you weren't already certain that they were monitoring your communications through Skype, they are.
    Skype is not a secure communications channel. If this bothers you, use irc over i2p.

    1. Re:Problems with closed sorce by elvinz · · Score: 2

      If you use an open source client you could end up with the same problem. You can connect with Pidgin to gtalk, using SSL, and still have Google read your messages.

    2. Re:Problems with closed sorce by MiG82au · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not if both sides use the OTR plugin that comes with Pidgin.

    3. Re:Problems with closed sorce by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even with GPG encrypted messaging? Really now.

    4. Re:Problems with closed sorce by stewsters · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely true. It is one of the weaknesses with using a server to communicate. You can encrypt your messages, but the server still knows who you are talking to and approximately how much data you are sending.

      It might be a good idea to look into I2P-Messenger to send secure messages. It keeps the message encrypted until the end point. The other traffic through I2P makes it harder to monitor length of the message and who its going to.

    5. Re:Problems with closed sorce by griffjon · · Score: 1

      As mentioned, OTR is good for secure chat; and Jitsi (other other VOIP tools that implement OSTN, https://guardianproject.info/wiki/OSTN) can provide end-to-end encrypted voice and video as well as chat. Kinda like skype, but secure.

      --
      Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
  18. I wonder... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Is anybody else suddenly feeling a sense of curiosity about what sorts of vulnerabilities, if any, the program that Microsoft probes URLs sent over skype with may possess?

    If TFA is accurate, you can make whatever software this is visit a URL just by skype-chatting it to somebody. What sort of security measures would they have in place for systems whose job it is to poke every last probably-malware link that goes across skype?

    1. Re:I wonder... by malakai · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's no different than Google checking URL's for malware and warning you when you click a URL hosted on any of the Googleservices.
      Also, this:

      even if they are HTTPS URLs and contain account information

      that makes no sense. First, why would HTTPS be some sort of exception? It's not like SSL'ing a website is all that difficult.
      Second, why would you supposedly go through the trouble of using a 'secure' HTTP address if you are then going to pass in account credentials in the URL?
      I know the whole communication is encrypted, but why would you pass "https://user:secret@www.supersecurebank.com/something?foo=bar" via a Skype message if it was really the intention to be secure ( putting aside the absurdity of leaving credentials in the URL ).

      Long story short, this looks like Skype looking out for the 99% of the internet, and the 1% are crying foul. I'd rather every link my family sends each other via Skype be threat checked.

    2. Re:I wonder... by gallondr00nk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What sort of security measures would they have in place for systems whose job it is to poke every last probably-malware link that goes across skype?

      I bet they run Linux.

    3. Re:I wonder... by ADRA · · Score: 2

      Well devil's advocate here, the URI string wouldn't be sent over the air unencrypted, so one could consider that more secure assuming you forget the fact that 99% of received email is also sent over the wire un-encrypted.

      Maybe there is a common conception that Skype is a secure connection and one wouldn't have to worry about sending such a damning web link. If anything though, this article lays out quite clearly, that there are at least automated taps on Microsoft's end scanning all input messages.

      --
      Bye!
    4. Re:I wonder... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I'd honestly be fascinated to know; because, if you flip the context around, 'Microsoft reads your skype URLs' is equivalent to 'some poor sysadmin at MS runs a system that accesses any URL anybody on the internet chooses to feed it.' That sure as hell isn't something I'd want to take on lightly...

    5. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      exactly. if your account information can be attained by simply typing the correct info in the URL, then there's a problem. Otherwise, when skype goes to the address, they'll probably just get a "you need to login to see this information" and i see no issue there. so, either way, your account information should be as secure as it was before sending the message.

    6. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather they let me worry about my own content and not examine anything I send over what many assumes is a private comms channel. Before they grabbed up all of the infrastructure this was the case, now it's not since Mickeysoft bought them.

    7. Re:I wonder... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Especially since, according to the article, they are only doing HEAD requests. They could just as well be taking information directly out of the URL and storing it in a database and nobody would ever know. I don't understand the problem with verifying that the link is both not in a malware database and also not a redirect to one.

    8. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll set up a VB script; see if I can track an IP address...

    9. Re:I wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't access "any URL," they build a database of repeating URLs and new ones. The repeating URLs/domains on the blacklist are marked as spam, and only new domains are explored. Furthermore, given Hotmail's shady subcontracting out to Spamhaus, they probably subcontract the work out to another dirtbag company.

  19. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by lister+king+of+smeg · · Score: 1

    ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...

    --
    ---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
  20. Hmmm ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So, as I fully expected, this whole campaign about users being "Scroogled" that Microsoft has been involved in is misdirection, and they do the same thing.

    Wanna bet they also scrape your hotmail and everything else in the same way they accuse Google of doing?

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Hmmm ... by ArmchairGeneral · · Score: 1

      Your comment was my first thought as I read this article, and I had to read down through the comments to see if it was already posted. Blatant hypocrisy, oh sure I can appreciate most companies engage in it, but Microsoft really tried hard to make themselves sound so different.

    2. Re:Hmmm ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's the risk to Microsoft that the robot accessing the link would inadvertently open a hole into their corporate network?

    3. Re:Hmmm ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only do they do the same things as Google, they have a worse track record with regards to email privacy.
      I hate Google as much as the next guy, but as far as Google's current email record goes, it's better than Microsoft.

      That's not to say Google is good -- it's not, it's becoming more and more evil, and it has ENORMOUS potential for evil, given all the information it has about everyone and its growing political ambitions. Google needs to be shut down, and its servers nuked from orbit.

  21. Hate M$, sounds plausible by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

    I hate M$ but their explanation sounds plausible. Not saying they don't have an unknown, secondary motivation also, just.,.. it sounds like something a programmer might think to do to combat the malware problem

    1. Re:Hate M$, sounds plausible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, and oh look - I've made another "mistake" that accidentally uses all this information for sales and marketing purposes. Ooopsie; I've gone and sold the information too. How careless of me. Now, I've dropped the soap - be a dear and pick it up for me?

    2. Re:Hate M$, sounds plausible by WOOFYGOOFY · · Score: 1

      Those are some of the fears, and they only get worse from there.

  22. I like Phishing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Phishing is worthwhile; it's a great way to listen to an awesome band play some great music (if you don't mind the unavoidable clouds of second-hand marijuana smoke at the concerts). I'm not a huge fan of phishing though...

  23. Why isn't there more encryption to avg joes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think every communication between people should be encrypted by default so nobody else can read it but the intended recipient.

  24. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!
    Spam spam spam spam...
    Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
    Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
    Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!
    Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!

  25. "Microscroofted"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't get Microscroofted! Use... ah, hell, we've all been getting screwed by Microsoft for so long that's just what their name means anyway.

  26. Re:Is there any way? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Both Facebook and Google's chats use bog standard XMPP (aka Jabber). Normal, clueless people use Facebook to chat. The few that don't use Facebook use the chat inside Gmail, or the one installed on their smartphone. Encryption over XMPP is very common; You'd need to use a non-standard client (say, Pidgin), but it's feasible.

    The major problem is that encryption requires support at both ends:

    Even a totally proprietary chat network(if it's been cracked open far enough that 3rd party clients exist, or 3rd-party wrappers around the first party client or libraries exist) can be used to send encrypted payloads; but only if both users are set up for that(Pidgin with OTR, say, works just fine over AOL's 'Oscar' protocol; but only if both ends are using it. This is the real killer. If you don't have control over what your clueless compatriot is using, none of the client-side encryption options are going to help you much. Not supported in Google's gmail web app window thing? No deal. Not supported by cellphone's default chat client? no deal.

    You'll still probably get SSL, from all but the shittiest chat services; but that only protects you from people watching the wire, not from the service provider(who is the man in the middle, with one SSL-protected connection to you and a second to your chat compatriot).

    Same with email: it's less common than it used to be for email to go between the client and the mailserver in the clear; but it's still damn rare for messages to be encrypted at the client end and thus safe from the mailserver operator.

  27. He's (nearly) always right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Didn't Stallman say you shouldn't use Skype?
    And what did you do?

  28. So what MS is saying.... by domatic · · Score: 2, Insightful

    .....is that they are Scroogling Skype users?

  29. Official Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The google translate version is difficult to understand. Here is the official translation of what exactly happened:

    http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with-care-Microsoft-is-reading-everything-you-write-1862870.html

    The articles states what Microsoft did was not useful for detecting malware/phishing...

  30. DOS? by devloop · · Score: 1

    Could this be used to instrument MS servers to effect a Denial Of Service attack upon the host of your choosing?

    1. Select victim
    2. Bomb URL via chat from a new/fake throwaway Skype account
    3. ???
    4. Profit

  31. "Fishing URLs" by wcrowe · · Score: 1, Funny

    Here is an example of a fishing URL.

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:"Fishing URLs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i Sea what you did there...

    2. Re:"Fishing URLs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      there's fish in OKLAHOMA? who knew.

    3. Re:"Fishing URLs" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't click on it!!!

  32. Denial of Service Potential? by duplo1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Hopefully MS does some dupe checking on their end, otherwise this could amount to a DoS attack. Imagine spamming out the victim's URL to hundreds of thousands of Skype users and then MS flooding that URL with requests.

    1. Re:Denial of Service Potential? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why would the algorithm the runs this have to visit a site several times after determining what it contains

  33. please .. "microscroofted" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With even a little effort we can make this a thing

  34. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by xeio87 · · Score: 3, Informative

    How would you even propose they filter spam links without a basic request? Do they blacklist all URL shorteners, or do you just let all spam that uses URL shorteners to go through?

  35. Don't Get Scroogled! by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wait... Who were we talking about?

    --
    Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
  36. Totally plausible by Kimomaru · · Score: 3

    I do not like to defend Microsoft, but I can see this as being the case. Skype's got quite a bit of problems with Messenger Spam, this may be a mechanism to review them.

    By the way, if privacy is your problem, you're not fixing it by using someone else's infrustructure. You should expect, by default, that they're going through your information. Build your own server or forever hold your peace.

    1. Re:Totally plausible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Using your own infrastructure is not going to help you in regards of privacy.
      Your messages will have to be sent over the internet just as before. The possibility of interception therefore persists.
      The only thing that helps you to keep your communication private is encrypting it.

      Hence, you do not need to use your own server in order to communicate safely.

    2. Re:Totally plausible by Kimomaru · · Score: 1

      True, all of it can be intercepted, but I'd rather the intercepted packets be encrypted and that I'm the one administering the server and not someone else. It's not a bulletproof solution because there aren't any bulletproof solutions in this world. BUT, it's leaps and bounds superior to using someone else's infrustructure.

    3. Re:Totally plausible by Kimomaru · · Score: 1

      By the way, I do believe you're incorrect in the statement, "The only thing that helps you to keep your communication private is encrypting it." If you're encrypting traffic to a hub which then relays it, then three parties will be aware; you, the hub, and the reciever. Encryption is private when the private key is unique and not shared.

  37. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 2

    *sigh* it's the principle of the thing, not the specific implementation. Guess what, I made the whole "Aviation Co" thing up. Joe doesn't even exist. Shock, horror, there *is no* turbine.

    It's simply an example to illustrate the point that links sent in private emails should remain unmolested. You can't assume that accessing them is safe. And yes, people should not be sending unsafe links through IM but let me re-iterate, as a service provider, You can't assume that accessing them is safe

  38. Is this really about phishing and spam? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They only check https links and not normal http. They only read the header information and don't check the actual content of the site. Shouldn't they look at every link and download the acutal page to check its content?

  39. So are they now responsible if they miss one? by drjohn_97 · · Score: 2

    If they are claiming that the reason to read/inspect the contents of the Skype messages is to protect users from spam and fishing URLs, can they be held legally responsible if they fail in that? It's no longer a "common carrier" if you are taking such actions, is it?

    1. Re:So are they now responsible if they miss one? by sanchom · · Score: 1

      It could be argued that they're doing more than the standard of care requires of them, so that would be a defence against a negligence tort. I'm not sure what other legal liability you're suggesting, though.

  40. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    Good question. It seems that one would maintain a list of spammy URLs and you might carve out a special case for URL shorteners. They are typically well-known sites.

    There's an old medical phrase, "First, do no harm". I try and apply it with what I do in IT.

  41. Scroogled is the reason by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 2

    http://www.scroogled.com/

    This campaign of lies funded by MS is now a double lie because MS unlike Google isn't open about it. Everyone knows gmail scans your messages. Nobody knew Skype does the same.

    THAT is why it is news and deserves to be repeated over and over to shut up all the MS trolls who were so happy to spout the scroogled fud.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    1. Re:Scroogled is the reason by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Google goes through every Gmail that's sent or received, looking for keywords so they can target Gmail users with paid ads. And there's no way to opt out of this invasion of your privacy. Outlook.com is different—we don't go through your email to sell ads.

      Emphasis theirs. I don't see how it can be more clear than that! It's the most prominent text on their page about Gmail.

  42. Good old MS by tsa · · Score: 1

    They haven't changed a bit. And that's why we love them :).

    --

    -- Cheers!

  43. Third-party involvement by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 2

    First rule: if you're routing your traffic through someone else's infrastructure (in this case MS's Skype servers), they are monitoring it. The only way around this is client-based encryption where the infrastructure in between doesn't have access to the encryption keys.

    Second rule: if the encryption setup requires someone else's servers to be involved, they do have access to the encryption keys. The only way around this is to either have the clients communicating directly or to use a key exchange protocol that's resistant to eavesdropping.

    Third rule: if you're truly concerned about confidential information, you shouldn't be depending on someone else's infrastructure in the first place. It's something you don't and can't control, which means using it's an inherent risk that should be avoided if possible. Get hosting or set up a server in your data center and run your own servers.

    That Skype chat's monitored should come as no surprise. MS will monitor Skype and MSN's IM service (whatever they're calling it this week). Google monitors Google Voice and Chat. Facebook monitors Facebook Chat. Your e-mail provider monitors your e-mail. If you're worried about security or confidentiality, acknowledge this and take appropriate measures.

    1. Re:Third-party involvement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  44. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by omnichad · · Score: 1

    A competent web developer does not perform data-changing action off a GET request. That's ignoring the other problem of including the username/password in the URL.

  45. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by omnichad · · Score: 2

    HTTP HEAD request to check for a response code of 200 vs. 301 or 302.

  46. Some OSes still can't do Server Name Indication by tepples · · Score: 1

    It's not like SSL'ing a website is all that difficult.

    It is if you want to have Windows XP or Android 2.x access it. The SSL stacks that ship with these operating systems don't understand Server Name Indication (SNI) and can therefore see the certificate for only the first site on port 443 of a given IP address. To avoid a certificate mismatch warning, you'd have to get a dedicated IPv4 address for the site, and with IPv4 scarcity, that's a lot more expensive than the name-based virtual hosting that one would use with clear HTTP or HTTPS+SNI unless, for example, you're already on a dedicated server.

  47. Ouch that must suck by cjjjer · · Score: 1

    Microsoft Reads Your Skype Chat Messages

    Being the poor sap that has to open up all those links and read the contents. You would think that they could automate it somehow, so they didn't have to read the chat message and then click on the link...

    I just had a brilliant idea, a headless browser... I'll make millions...

  48. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since when does a "filter" visit the sites sent? That sounds like an active process vs a passive filter type process. Try again?

  49. slight technicality... by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 0

    but they can't scrape your hotmail anymore because hotmail n'existe pas. They removed hotmail. Hotmail is an ex-parrot. But very likely that MS does do all of that on their other webmail and other internet protocol services.

    1. Re:slight technicality... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      You know, they might have renamed it, but as far as I know all of those @hotmail.com addresses are still valid and in use.

      A marketing re-brand is just that, the service in question is still there.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:slight technicality... by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1

      I did not know that the "@hotmail.com" addresses still worked and just forwarded (I'm guessing). Thanks for the info. I retract my slight technicality, since Hotmail still exists, and MS is most probably scraping your html hotmail emails too.

  50. I didn't.. by Falkentyne · · Score: 0

    ..read the story or most of the posts on here but here's the privacy policy (important parts):

    1. WHAT INFORMATION DOES SKYPE COLLECT AND USE?
    (n) Content of instant messaging communications, voicemails, and video messages (please see section 12);

    12. HOW LONG IS YOUR PERSONAL DATA KEPT BY SKYPE?

    Skype will retain your information for as long as is necessary to: (1) fulfill any of the Purposes (as defined in article 2 of this Privacy Policy) or (2) comply with applicable legislation, regulatory requests and relevant orders from competent courts.

    Retention of Instant Messages, Voicemail Messages, and Video Messages (Skype internet communications software application only)

    Your instant messaging (IM), voicemail, and video message content (collectively “messages”) may be stored by Skype (a) to convey and synchronize your messages and (b) to enable you to retrieve the messages and history where possible. Depending on the message type, messages are generally stored by Skype for a maximum of between 30 and 90 days unless otherwise permitted or required by law. This storage facilitates delivery of messages when a user is offline and to help sync messages between user devices. For IM, if you have linked your Skype and Microsoft accounts, you may have the option to choose to store your full IM history for a longer period. In that case, your IMs may be stored in your Outlook.com Messaging folder until you manually delete them. For Video messages, you may also choose to store messages for an extended period if the sender is a Premium Member.

    Skype will take appropriate technical and security measures to protect your information. By using this product, you consent to the storage of your IM, voicemail, and video message communications as described above.

    There's a couple other spots in the privacy policy that touch on this but this is the gist.

  51. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Macthorpe · · Score: 2

    Which, from the article, is exactly what they're doing.

    --
    "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
  52. Google by DrYak · · Score: 2

    Great, what popular IM and VoIP client that everyone and their grandmother uses do you suggest instead?

    Google Talk. Works out of the browser.
    Once web rtc hits mainline version of browser (soonish), it will work out of the browser without even a plugins.

    Or you can install Jitsi and use that to log into your google chat instead of the webclient. And if the other end too has encryption (Off-The-Record on the message channel or ZRTP on the audio/video channels) (for exeample if the other end is using Adium to chat) the transmission is completely encrypted end-to-end with no way for google to intercept anything.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Google by FireFury03 · · Score: 2

      Great, what popular IM and VoIP client that everyone and their grandmother uses do you suggest instead?

      Google Talk. Works out of the browser.

      Yeah, coz Google would *never* read your private data...

    2. Re:Google by LordLimecat · · Score: 2

      Google has always been pretty open about what they do and dont have access to.

      And for the record, they have NEVER cooperated with a foreign government to disclose private info, unlike Microsoft. So maybe lay off of them here.

    3. Re:Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awww man! I got scroogled!

    4. Re:Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google has always been pretty open about what they do and dont have access to.

      And for the record, they have NEVER cooperated with a foreign government to disclose private info, unlike Microsoft. So maybe lay off of them here.

      O RLY?

      Read any sealed executive orders lately? I didn't think so.

  53. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by daveime · · Score: 1

    No, it's not the principle of the thing, everything is in the implementation. If you say Microsoft is looking at your URLS and reading "https://somesite.com/?user=joe&pass=123 then you're a fucking idiot for sending credentials in cleartext in a GET call. If you say Microsoft is looking at your URLS and reading "https://somesite.com" ONLY, and that the actual credentials are contained in an encrypted POST call that they're not even requesting (they're using HEAD), then that's an entirely different kettle of fish. NOTHING secure is being leaked, this is pure hyperbole on your part, using an example designed to scare an average user, but completely nonsensical to anyone who actually works on the web. Nothing more.

  54. Why would they? by Kaenneth · · Score: 1

    They are probably making sure Terrorists arn't using Skype.

    Or Child Pornographers!, yeah that's the ticket!

    Why do you hate America and/or Children?

  55. Anything I can put in the hosts file to block this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    other than redirecting everything to localhost?

  56. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That reminds me, I need to go drop a rod in the turbine.

    Anyone have the current GQ?

  57. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Well then, I see nothing wrong with it. It makes perfect sense and it does the least access necessary.

  58. Same w all browser history w smartscreen enabled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    And I think it might include all form data.

    One might expect that with "IE smartscreen" that Microsoft would deliver a list of malicious URLs to your browser, and your browser would do the url matching, you know, to protect your privacy. And because it's a lot faster. One might not expect ALL your browser activity to be sent to them, and followed. But how about ALL of the form fields on any page you fill out?

    Old hidden historical forms on our website have been "submitted" from a microsoft address, with the e-mail address field filled out like this: email%20address%20removed

    The only place they could have obtained these urls, is from one of our customer's browser.

    AND ... it's very clear from the url they hit that they are NOT sanitizing http post arguments. They may be using regex to remove obvious e-mail addresses, and they MAY be smart enough to recognize password fields and not suck them in, but it's clear that they get ALL THE OTHER form data. Because the GET from microsoft to our webserver contained all that data and choices that our user made on that page.

    So -- any customer using IE to fill out a form on the web -- a lot of that form data will end up in Microsoft's database, and re-submitted to that website again as microsoft's bot attempts to "check" the "url".

    Sure, the submission/post might not work because they didn't keep the password field (and I'm not certain of that, I only see clear evidence of removal of e-mail addresses)... but does every IE user realize that Microsoft will end up with historical records of all http post forms that they fill out?

  59. Interesting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What if you have a badly designed system and you send a url with a PHPSESSIONID and a url that deletes something. http://foo.com/post/delete/12345?PHPSESSIONID=12345. Can MS be accused of maliciously deleting posts?

    1. Re:Interesting by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

      Don't use a badly designed system?

      --
      "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
  60. People really do this and complain about security? by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 1

    Seriously? Give me a break

    If you post a https url in a chat window with login credentials in the url, you might as well be writing it on bathroom walls in bus stations, preceeded by "For a good time, browse to..."

    Whether Microsoft should be doing this or not is entirely beside the point.

  61. Vector by gmuslera · · Score: 1

    Knowing how Microsoft see security, probably an attack against their network could be done sending URLs of their internal servers via skype. Or in general, use them to do a DDoS to internet servers. Playing dumb MITM is risky.

  62. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Macthorpe · · Score: 1

    I completely agree with you. Thousands on Slashdot wouldn't, because it's Microsoft and they're hunting desperately for something to blame them for.

    --
    "It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
  63. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This request method is called GET in the HTTP protocol because if you use it that way, you GET WHAT YOU DESERVE.

  64. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    Yes, that's correct. That still doesn't make it OK to access URLs that are being passed around in private communications.

    And good call on ignoring the username/password thing in a completely contrived example. It could just have easily been a hash or some other url based tracking mechanism. Though, of course, the URL spec does actually specify allowing username and password right there in the scheme-specfic-part in the RFC. http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1738.txt

  65. How is this not unauthorized access by Microsoft? by pmikell · · Score: 1

    If the URLs being scanned are HTTPS including login credentials, how is this not unauthorized access by Microsoft to the servers in question? The TOS for servers accessed via HTTPS with login credentials tend to be strict about unauthorized access, and I very much doubt that they have a clause to the effect of "by unintentionally allowing someone to steal your login credentials, you authorize them to access to your account and you do so with our permission".

  66. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    OK, let's move the credentials up into the scheme-specific-part as specified in the RFC

    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1738.txt

    Or instead of username/password, we can make it some kind of hash.

  67. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by omnichad · · Score: 1

    As someone else pointed out, they do a HEAD request anyway - not GET. They're not accessing any data from the URL - just assessing whether it's a redirect to a known malware link.

    I don't see any reason at all to have a problem with that. Whether there's a username/password OR a hash. They're not getting any user-specific data from it.

  68. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    The HTTP/1.1 RFC stipulates "The HEAD method is identical to GET except that the server MUST NOT return a message-body in the response."

    I happily agree that web pages should not perform actions based on GET requests. Two wrongs don't make a right.

  69. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    The HTTP/1.1 RFC stipulates "The HEAD method is identical to GET except that the server MUST NOT return a message-body in the response."

    Try it. During a HEAD request code is run unless you explicitly check for the method.

    $telnet website.redacted.com 80
    Trying 192.168.x.xxx...
    Connected to website.redacted.com.
    Escape character is '^]'.
    HEAD /~me/testh.php HTTP/1.0

    HTTP/1.1 200 OK
    Date: Tue, 14 May 2013 18:49:41 GMT
    Server: Youdontneedtoknow
    X-Powered-By: PHP/Linux
    Action: Threw the rod in the turbine
    Connection: close
    Content-Type: text/html

    Connection closed by foreign host.

    Header added by code.

  70. "If the design is a trade secret, then it's a scam by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

    I mostly agree with you, but Skype outperforms everything else. It has a competitive advantage in being a trade secret.

  71. Use end-to-end encryption by DrYak · · Score: 2

    Yeah, coz Google would *never* read your private data...

    Doesn't matter. Just on the next line I suggested using end-to-end encryption.

    You can log with any XMPP software that supports Off-The-Record to have end-to-end encryption on chat (for example Jisti, Pidgin, Adium, maybe Trillian too, but I'm not sure) you can log with any XMPP software that supports ZRTP to have end-to-end encryption on audio/video (jisti again).

    Both OTR and ZRTP are standards, so as long as software at both ends support it you get encryption, you don't need to use the same software, only any software that does support it (for obvious technical reasons, Google's own web app client doesn't implement it so you're still transmitting with the same level of security as a post card if one of the peers is using this)

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  72. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    Hah. While that's the truth, I don't think Microsoft should take it upon themselves to be the givers.

  73. Re:Anything I can put in the hosts file to block t by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    I have it on good authority that the owner of localhost is reading your emails.

  74. Re:People really do this and complain about securi by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    No, it actually is the point.

  75. Article published in English! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why bother with a Google translation when the original article has a link to the English version?
    http://www.h-online.com/security/news/item/Skype-with-care-Microsoft-is-reading-everything-you-write-1862870.html

  76. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Yes, but why should Microsoft care about such a poorly developed application? They're not accessing sensitive information in the HEAD request. If a HEAD or GET performs an action that changes data or causes physical action, then that's not Microsoft's problem. It doesn't matter that the RFC allows it - it's very poor practice and that's been proven time and again in the real world.

    This is protecting consumers from compromised consumers. There's nothing malicious about it. And there's really no reason to complain.

    Related:
    http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/WellIntentioned-Destruction.aspx

  77. cool, kinda sorta by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    I think Chrome works by matching any links you want to go to against known bad links Google has already determined are bad by its crawler.

    It doesn't go to them as you type them in in messages.

    That, by the way, would be a nice feature, like some kind of CheckOutIfThisURLIsSpam.com. But voluntary, and not buried in TOS on page 97 of your clickthru.

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  78. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    Why should they? I guess because their customers are sending links in a private communication without the expectation of it being mined and executed. If you don't think that's a reasonable expectation, I guess that's the end of it.

  79. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Explain how it's "mined" (digging for something of value) or "executed" (these are not POST requests). It's still private in the sense that no human is doing anything with the links - no machine is even receiving the contents of the linked page.

  80. Read the article! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a) microsoft is only sending HEAD requests, the actual content of the URL is not evaluated, so those arguments are invalid.
    b) they're only doing it for https urls, not for http urls. and https urls are rarely used for spam, phishing and malware.

  81. Hmm... by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Could you use it to drive clicks for ads on a web page? Is there any URL it'd be interesting for Microsoft to be clicking on a lot? livegoatporn.com maybe?

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    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  82. Time to create a truely secure chat client by jonwil · · Score: 1

    I have an idea for a really secure chat client. It would support all the things Skype does that don't cost money (including voice chat, video chat and file transfers). How I envisage it working is this:
    1.When a user installs the program and registers for the service on a given host (there could be multiple separate instances of the server which may or may not communicate for the purposes of allowing users on one to talk to users on another), a public and private key-pair is generated on the local device. The public half is submitted alongside the registration details and the private half never leaves the users device (unless the user e.g. copies it to another device so they can use the program there).
    2.When the user logs onto the service, they use their private key to digitally sign a login packet which is verified by the central host (to verify that the user is who they claim to be and making phishing and password-theft much harder).
    3.To talk to someone (voice, video, text, file transfer, whatever) the client that wants to initiate the conversation asks the central server for the public key of the other guy. Then that public key is used as part of some sort of key exchange to share an encrypted session key in a way that even someone with a complete packet dump of the network traffic AND the private keys of both people couldn't recover the session key (something like Diffie-Helman would probably work here)
    4.All communications between users would be peer-to-peer direct conversations. In cases where direct links are not fesable (such as mobile devices where direct p2p links are not an option) all any relay servers ever see is encrypted data packets.
    5.Unless specifically asked by the user to do so, none of the communications are ever stored on any persistent storage medium by the client.
    6.At the end of the conversation, the session key is destroyed. (how you define "end of the conversation" in an IM client I dont know but certainly ending a video or voice session would count, as would closing the client)
    7.The client would cache public keys from users and warn if the cached key and the one the server has are different (thus helping detect if the central server has been compromised by someone)

    Assuming the client is implemented properly and the crypto is good (and hasn't been cracked) then this should be highly resistant to eavesdropping.
    The protocol would be 100% documented and open.
    The client (and there would ideally be multiple implementations to ensure against someone inserting a back-door) would be open source.

    If the session keys and key exchange are done properly (and there are no weaknesses in the key exchange or crypto) then even with the private keys of both parties in the conversation AND a full packet dump of the entire conversation, it would be impossible to recover what was transmitted.

    1. Re:Time to create a truely secure chat client by NynexNinja · · Score: 1

      its called ssh, it was written in 1990.

    2. Re:Time to create a truely secure chat client by jonwil · · Score: 1

      SSH is not a chat client, its a secure remote shell for logging into other computers.

  83. You glossed over the P2P part by Burz · · Score: 1

    At some point Skype was changed to allow a MITM situation.

  84. Skype is supposed to be P2P by Burz · · Score: 1

    Do you think millions of people who signed up for the service last decade read the changes in the EULA that show communications are centralized?

    They seem to be trampling on peoples' expectations here.

    1. Re:Skype is supposed to be P2P by Kimomaru · · Score: 1

      Definitely. But even if you don't read the EULA ever, some common sense will tell you that it's their house and if you want to play in it, you have to play by their rules. And, by the way, reading and understanding the EULA for public networks is a waste of time if it's been violated and the damage has been done. Just assume that they can change anything in the EULA whenever they want (I think in most cases, they can after they notify you anyway) and that you should know that nothing you do in another guy's house is private.

  85. TOS does not trump state or federal law by NynexNinja · · Score: 1

    All the idiots who think that "Terms of Service" "agreements" -- which for the most part have been proven to be unenforceable in a court of law, trump state or federal law are wrong. An illegal contract is still illegal. For example, craigslist.org has some pretty nefarious nonsense all over thier terms of use web page, and about 90% of it is unenforceable illegal contract nonsense that and they would get, and have gotten laughed out of every court they every attempted to show it to. TOS agreements are no more than a scare tactic used by corporations to make people think its illegal to do something. If your feeble minded enough to believe it, thats you're low IQ that you need to examine. I personally hope that Skype and Microsoft get sued into oblivion for their misdeeds against the millions of people who have paid to use that Skype program over the years and now after Micro$oft bought it, have since become bamboozled into various levels of fraud by Micor$oft.

    1. Re:TOS does not trump state or federal law by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

      You're absolutely right - they're called coercive contracts and are as valid as a forced confession or the assumption that silence=consent.

      Precedent:

        in R (G) v Nottingham City Council [2008] EWHC 400 (Admin), Munby J at:

      51. But quite apart from that there seemed to me to be a much more fundamental objection to the case which the local authority was seeking to advance. The argument that K had been lawfully accommodated by the local authority with the consent of the mother was in reality founded on nothing more than the assertion that the mother knew and understood the details of the birth plan (in both its original and its amended form) and that she did not "raise objection" to it, just as it was likewise asserted that, following the birth, she had not "raised objection" to the removal of her new-born baby.

      52. No authority of any kind was produced in support of these surprising propositions, that a mother could be said to have given her consent to the removal of her baby merely because, knowing of the local authority's plan, she did not object to it and because, when the moment of separation arrived, she did not actively resist. I am not surprised. They are, with respect to those propounding them, as divorced from legal substance as they are remote from the emotional – and dare a man be permitted to say it – the hormonal realities of the human condition. Our law has long recognised that women in the aftermath of birth may not be as able to act wisely as at other times. It is, after all, compassionate regard for those realities which underlies statutory provisions as disparate as section 1 of the Infanticide Act 1938 and section 52(3) of the Adoption and Children Act 2002.

      53. I do not wish to be misunderstood. I am not suggesting that consent to the accommodation of a child in accordance with section 20 is required by law to be in writing – though, that said, a prudent local authority would surely always wish to ensure that an alleged parental consent in such a case is properly recorded in writing and evidenced by the parent's signature. Nor am I disputing that there may be cases where a child has in fact, and without parental objection, been accommodated by a local authority for such a period as might entitle a court to infer that the parent had in fact consented.

      54. But the local authority here seemed to be going far beyond this. It seemed to be conflating absence of objection with actual consent – a doctrine which at least in this context is, in my judgment, entirely contrary to principle and which, moreover, contains within it the potential for the most pernicious consequences, not least because there are probably many mothers who believe, quite erroneously, that a local authority has power, without any court order, to do what the local authority did in this case.

      55. To equate helpless acquiescence with consent when a parent is confronted in circumstances such as this with the misuse (or perhaps on another occasion the misrepresentation) of non-existent authority by an agent of the State is, in my judgment, both unprincipled and, indeed, fraught with potential danger.

      56. What the local authority and the NHS Trust did to G and K was unlawful absent consent by G. Let it be assumed that G did not object (though her account of these events would, I was told, be very different). As I observed during the hearing, the fact that she did not object does not mean that she consented. Even on the local authority's own case the fact is that G did not consent.

      (yes, I quoted a huge block because it's ALL relevant in context)

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      Operation Guillotine is in effect.
  86. well, well, well by Tastecicles · · Score: 1

    hands up those who didn't see this coming?

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  87. Don't get Microshafted! by Vrtigo1 · · Score: 1

    Google should run an ad campaign about this.

  88. Did they ever by TheEffigy · · Score: 1

    Did Microsoft ever say they didn't read your messages? You're pretty silly if you believe any service that doesn't explicitly enter into a binding contract wouldn't be reading your data - particularly if it's free.

  89. This is outrageous by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For one thing, some people get billed by the click and when microsoft intercepts a URL and accesses it.

    Lets say I send you a message with the remark, "accessing this URL indicates accpetence of this agreement."

    Is Microsoft committing identity theft if the access a URL send to someone for their personal use?

  90. Re:...Not that unexpected, and not that big a deal by Richy_T · · Score: 1

    Mined simply meaning extracted. It is executed in the sense that the get request (or rather a head request) is executed.

  91. Same stuff, different day. Beware the cloud! by _BrianMahoney · · Score: 1

    Nothing new there. They've been scanning your Skydrive account for years, long before it was Skydrive. Nothing is private in the cloud, that's for sure. If you're going to send a url, break it up with a few commas, see if that stumps the bots.

  92. Ofcourse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ofcourse they are doing this, they did the same thing with MSN. It was in the eula too.

  93. Is this really Slashdot or what? by abridgedslashdotuser · · Score: 1

    Did all the people who claim "This is just a malware filter!" really read the linked article? There is the behavior of the so called "scanner" described in detail. It does not just check any links, only links who started with https:/// were checked and not even immediately, but instead hours later. No real malware-scanner would ever do that! Man this site (Slashdot) really has gone downhill fast. Without any facts, any bullshit gets up-voted just by opinion, instead of how true it is. What Microsoft did is not okay even if other company's do the same it does not make wrong into right and it is wrong to read messages of other people and spy on there links they send each other there is nothing what makes that okay. Funny thing is with this actions Microsoft has proven to everybody, that Skype is not safe to be used for private communication anymore.