Slashdot Mirror


Federal Judge Dismisses Movie Piracy Complaint

cluedweasel writes "A Federal judge in Medford, OR has dismissed a piracy case lodged against 34 Oregonians. Judge Ann Aiken ruled that Voltage Pictures LLC unfairly lumped the defendants into what she called a 'reverse class action suit' to save on legal expenses and possibly to intimidate them into paying thousands of dollars for viewing a movie that could be bought or rented for less than $10." The judge was not enthused that they offered to settle for $7500 while noting that potential penalties could be as much as $150,000.

64 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. About time by willthiswork89 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's about time the court system grow a backbone and say something to these wankers. What really needs to happen is a lawsuit filed for intimidation by the defendants.

    1. Re:About time by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not intimidation, more like a protection racket.

      You pay $7500 or you pay a lot more to a lawyer and risk losing.

    2. Re:About time by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not at all. The issue I have is the discrepancy in amounts. $7500 is targeted to make it just cheaper than dealing with a lawyer. The $150k is statutory damages designed to deal with commercial infringement.

      Settling out of court is fine if it is in good faith. This is not a good faith offer, it is merely a protection racket. They don't even need to have a case since it will cost you more to fight than to pay.

    3. Re:About time by meglon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeh.... they even have a saying for that....

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    4. Re:About time by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Sure you can, and since you are not a lawyer you will screw that right up. It is not the media telling me I don't know the law nor legal processes in my state. I am not even sure what forms I would need to file with what clerk.

    5. Re:About time by Vanderhoth · · Score: 2

      There are still fees and paper work, and penalties for not doing the paper work, which normal "IANAL" people don't know about and thus require a lawyer for. I'm pretty sure just about anyone who showed up to court without a lawyer to defend themselves and didn't know what they were doing would be laughed at by a Judge and quickly found at fault. Despite what you see on TV, Judge Judy isn't real court and not how the real ones operate.

      h4rr4 is pretty well spot on, you could defend yourself and lose, hire a lawyer and possibly win, but still owe a fortune, or settle out of court for significantly less than what you'd pay a lawyer or pay if you lost.

      The court system wasn't setup to be some corps personal income stream, which seems to be a lot of what it's doing these days.

    6. Re:About time by IndustrialComplex · · Score: 4, Informative

      One of the key differences is that when entities settle out of court, the plaintiff sets a settlement cost at an amount which would be reasonable to offset their losses.

      ie: You broke my fence, I am typically entitled to the cost to a repair of that fence and attributable damages (cows wandered out via the gap). Such a cost might be $4000. However, perhaps we agree that because the fence was pretty degraded, it isn't fair for you to have to pay for the cost of replacing the fence (effectively giving me a NEW fence for free) but a portion of the cost commensurate to the value of the original needing repairs anyway fence.

      The main difference, of course, is that the settlement amount tends to focus on repairing the actual harm done.

      --
      Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
    7. Re:About time by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Informative

      He understands, but both of you missed one important distinction here:

      With most torts, there's no question raised as to whether or not the defendant was involved. Instead, the big disagreement in most lawsuits is over whether or not the defendant's actions caused damages, and/or if their subsequent results are damaging enough to warrant a monetary (or other) redress.

      With the trolls at Voltage, there's no way to tell (or even reliably prove) that the defendant and/or his products/property/whatever had any involvement at all.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    8. Re:About time by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yep, that's what my lawyer said. It'll cost about $10k to get her into court, and court is always a gamble. Bear in mind I'm in Canada where court is significantly cheaper.

      The upshot is that if it's less than $25k, it goes to small claims, which means you can represent yourself. If the other side shows up with an army of lawyers, the judge will probably take them to task.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    9. Re:About time by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You will need to file all kinds of paperwork for appeals and evidence.

      This is a civil case, so they are only going to try to meet a preponderance of evidence. There is no proving yourself innocent, just defending against that.

      lawyers and judges are not godlike, but just as they have no idea how to do my job, I have no idea how to do theirs. We could both attempt it, but the results are not going to be pretty in either case.

    10. Re:About time by Aighearach · · Score: 2

      There are in fact pro se defendants on some of these porn-troll-extortion cases. In one case Prenda counldn't easily dismiss a weak case because the the one pro se had already filed a response. So yeah, filing stuff is the right thing to do. Since he was quicker to answer than most of the lawyers, he's one of the ones who has a chance at receiving damages for the bogus suit.

      You can follow it all at http://www.popehat.com/tag/prenda-law/ and http://fightcopyrighttrolls.com/ and http://www.groklaw.net/index.php

      But yeah if in addition to not being a lawyer, you're also a regular Joe who doesn't follow legal cases and read judgements relating to your industry, you'd probably be a fool. These trolls are starting to lose so badly and quickly in court now that it should be easy to find a pro bono working for the sanctions he can claim. When lawyers get fined for being naughty the money isn't collected by the government, it goes to the lawyers on the other side!

    11. Re:About time by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      This is one reason why innocent people do plead guilty. It is a similar problem, the hope in that case is the truly innocent can be proven so by a legal aid lawyer.

    12. Re:About time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Here in Canada, they have also cap the limit of damages for copyright infringement which is below that of a small claims court. We also have the loser pays system here for better or worse.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright_Act_of_Canada
      A copyright holder can instead elect to protect his/her copyright under section 38.1, which allows for "a sum of not less than $500 or more than $5,000 as the court considers just." for all non-commercial infringement, and up to $20,000 for each commercial infringement.

      Right now the Canipre case asking for ISP customer info, they are trying to "say" that it is commercial infringement for a reverse class action for a bunch of ISP residential customers with sucky upload speeds...

    13. Re:About time by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

      The main difference, of course, is that the settlement amount tends to focus on repairing the actual harm done.

      It's not really a difference, though, from the point of view of corporations with media copyrights. I mean, the harm done, according to them, is anywhere from $400 Billion to $75 Trillion. $7500 is comparatively cheap.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    14. Re:About time by wvmarle · · Score: 3, Informative

      I thought small claims court meant "no lawyers". So not only can you represent yourself, you pretty much have to represent yourself, as you can't get a lawyer to represent you.

      It also means that the other party (the firm sending those letters) must send a non-lawyer to court to represent the company. That person may have the backing of lawyers in preparing the case but they have to argue the case there and then.

    15. Re:About time by azadrozny · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You usually have the right to bring a lawyer with you to court. Small claims courts exist to bundle smaller less complicated cases into one system. The rules are usually simpler, and judges are more tolerant of errors made by the litigants since they typically do act as their own lawyer.

    16. Re:About time by triffid_98 · · Score: 2

      It is a similar problem, the hope in that case is the truly innocent can be proven so by a legal aid lawyer.

      That's a fairly faint hope from what I've seen. Public defenders have such heavy caseloads there's no way you'd get much of their time even if you did manage to qualify, which I'd hazard a guess less than 1% of the people here would based on income and asset requirements.

      So yes, lots of people plead guilty via the plea-bargaining process who aren't. It's a big problem and it's been here a long time.

      The process goes a little something like this:
      1. Police trump up as many charges as they possibly can during an arrest.
      2. Prosecutor looks for any more charges that could possibly be applied.
      3. Bail is set at an absurd amount due to 1+2
      4. You hire a lawyer for an absurd amount of money (probably via credit card debt)
      5. Prosecutor offers a plea deal removing all of the charges they probably couldn't have proved in the first place.
      6. Your defense lawyer advises you to take it.

      Scenario #1:
      You take it, accepting whatever penalty assessed.
      Prosecutor wins (it counts as a win no matter what they bargain it down to)
      Defense Lawyer wins (your retainer)
      Bail Bondsmen wins (around 10% of #3)
      You 'win' by not having to go into bankruptcy to pay for a full trial

      Scenario #2:
      You refuse to take it.
      Defense Lawyer wins (your retainer, plus whatever they can get before your credit cards start getting declined)
      Prosecutor wins (once you run out of money and your lawyer tells you go go away)
      Bail Bondsmen wins (around 10% of #3)
      You 'win' a free trip to PMITA prison and some laughably wrong felony charges.

    17. Re:About time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Small claims court in Canada allows lawyers. However, they have a limitation as to maximum damages you can claim for attorney's fees (chances are you will get nothing at all, last I recall the maximum damage was $300 for the cost of a representative).

      In no court in Canada do you require a lawyer at all, period. This includes criminal court, supreme court, and tax court. And you may select someone to represent you that is not a lawyer in many courts--however, they may not be paid for doing so in certain cases, though.

      I know this as I defended someone as a non-lawyer against an assault charge (he came out with no record of conviction, I'd say we won).

      Some notes: You may only have a member of the bar or a lawyer representing you in Supreme Court (or you may have neither, if you so choose). Tax court is similar. In criminal court, the charges must demand less than 6 months of jail time for you to select anyone of your choosing.

      This should help:

      http://www.lawsociety.ab.ca/lawyers/practice_advisors/practice_ethics/Articling_What_Can_a_Student-at-law_Do.aspx

      My opinion: When you're wrong, lawyers do a great job making you look like you're right. When you're right, lawyers do a great job of dealing with the fear and lack of dedication you might have when you approach the judge. If you can go to court, look the judge right in the eye, and recite law to him--and don't mind doing the research to do so, then represent yourself but don't expect the court to respect you (in other words, know the law better than the Judge--I certainly did to the point even the prosecution was agreeing with me and instructing the Judge that he might just be wrong...)

      If you think you'd like to represent yourself, the best free training you can get is to fight every single parking ticket you ever get. It's easy and the penalty is low. After the second one, you will never fear the courts again. But you might laugh at them.

    18. Re:About time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The one thing that gets me about small claims court here is the abuse of the default rules. The default rule in this state requires that there be attempted service by certified mail, return receipt requested, no responsive pleading, a notice that you intend to file for default has to be filed and served, you miss the first hearing, and a certain number of days have to pass. On the other side of things, if you don't file a responsive pleading, then all jurisdictional allegations are admitted and all other allegations are denied; plus, the notice states that a responsive pleading isn't required.

      Well, the hearings are scheduled so far out that it isn't common that all of the default requirements can be met before the trial. So, savvy lawyers began scheduling all their case trials for the same time and date. When most people don't show up, they get defaults against all of them. But, if someone does show up, then the judges grant them a continuance to have the real trial on a different date. So, even if a person gets all their witness and everything and shows up to trial, the court still grants their cronies, I mean "the lawyers," a continuance that is usually months away.

      To illustrate how bad it is, I've had a trial for a client scheduled for 1:30-2:30. I looked at the calendar and there was literally over 150 trials scheduled between 1:00 and 1:30 because the lawyers would show up for them after lunch because they know they will get a default or reschedule. How many of the defendants in those cases had either fretted all over lunch or was readying their case while missing out on work, only to have to do it all over again? And other attorneys can't seem to wrap their heads around why people here seem to have active disdain for the profession.

    19. Re:About time by cawpin · · Score: 2

      You usually have the right to bring a lawyer with you to court.

      This is HIGHLY dependent on your state's laws. Arizona, for example, does not allow lawyers in small claims. Also, the cutoff for small claims is usually far less than the $25k mentioned. Arizona's is $2500 which is nearer to other states I've seen as well.

    20. Re:About time by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The problem with the troll claims is that you've got a state of affairs that boils down to "Tort reform for the rich, and Crime and Punishment for the Poor".

      Most tort case don't have the benefit of extreme and unjust statutory damages. In most tort cases, you actually have to prove harm. Media moguls don't have to do that. They can dodge the issue entirely. Beyond that, you have a well cultivated hatred of lawyers coupled with tort reform movement that's been pretty effective in gutting civil remedies in non-copyright cases.

      In your average tort case, you don't have the benefit of a credible threat of multi-million dollar damages for trivial infractions.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    21. Re:About time by Kaenneth · · Score: 2

      If they set the schedule, they damn well better be ready to proceed with their case, I would say.

  2. Mass Extortion by onyxruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's about time judges start to see these campaigns as the mass extortion cases that they are. If this was being done by anyone else there would have been RICO charges filed long ago. These cases have nothing to do with preserving copyright and everything to do with extorting the public. A $7500 settlement instead of a $150,000 for a $10 movie, how on earth can this possibly be anything other than sheer extortion?

    1. Re:Mass Extortion by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that the people running the legal system are themselves attorneys with little sense of what laypeople really have to put up with. Yes, it might technically be in the fine print of something that we signed, but there's no reason to believe that we understood the terms we were agreeing to. What's more, very, very few people can afford to have an attorney go over every ToS, EULA and such that we're asked to agree to. That alone would likely run into the thousands of dollars every year, assuming that the agreements are straightforward, which they usually aren't.

      Until the justice system understands that these aren't real contracts which have been negotiated and agree to with informed consent, it's going to keep up like this. Sure, I signed a contract to get phone service, but it's not like I had other options other than not having a phone at all.

    2. Re:Mass Extortion by Theaetetus · · Score: 2

      It's about time judges start to see these campaigns as the mass extortion cases that they are. If this was being done by anyone else there would have been RICO charges filed long ago.

      Exerting your legal rights is not extortion, nor is offering a settlement to avoid litigation. For better or for worse, RICO doesn't apply.

      These cases have nothing to do with preserving copyright and everything to do with extorting the public. A $7500 settlement instead of a $150,000 for a $10 movie, how on earth can this possibly be anything other than sheer extortion?

      Except that they're going after people who distribute the movie, not just download a single copy... In which case, it's a $7500 settlement instead of $150,000 for a $50,000 license to reproduce and distribute a movie. They don't go after leechers because (i) there are technical problems with finding leechers unless you're the seeder or you're doing deep packet inspection; (ii) leechers may have format-shifting-by-proxy fair use arguments if they have a legal copy in another format; (iii) leechers can prove that actual damages are $10, and the defendant in an infringement suit can show proof of actual damages to mitigate statutory damages.

    3. Re:Mass Extortion by sanosuke001 · · Score: 3, Informative

      There is no EULA or ToS; when you download a movie from bittorrent or some other such service, all the FBI warnings etc have already been removed. I'm not saying what they're doing is right (it isn't); just saying that it isn't an EULA or ToS issue.

      --
      -SaNo
    4. Re:Mass Extortion by Migraineman · · Score: 5, Funny

      Would have been an interesting case to sit-in on. I can imagine that the dialogue went something like this:

      Lawyer: Your honor, the court needs to understand that the motion picture industry employs hundreds of people in the process of making a feature length film.
      Judge: Uh huh.
      Lawyer: When these dirty internet pirates steal the movie, they are stealing the food from the children of these good people.
      Judge: So you suffer losses?
      Lawyer: Yes! Almost incalculable losses. That's why we seek the statutory penalty of $150,000 per individual.
      Judge: [types on computer] I see that the film in question is available on Amazon for nine bucks.
      Lawyer: Uhm, yes, I believe that is the correct amount.
      Judge: So an individual who purchases this item through Amazon and watches it generates $9 in revenue, minus Amazon's overhead?
      Lawyer: Uhhhh ... yes.
      Judge: So your client receives up to $9 for the legitimate viewing, but somehow suffers $150,000 in damages because the method of viewing changed?
      Lawyer: Your honor, it's complicated.
      Judge: Enlighten me. Where does this $150,000 delta come into play?
      Lawyer: Uhm ... pain and suffering.
      Judge: Pain and suffering?
      Lawyer: Yes ... mine. OH GOD, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT'S LIKE WORKING FOR THESE PEOPLE!

    5. Re:Mass Extortion by Scarletdown · · Score: 2

      Judge: Enlighten me. Where does this $150,000 delta come into play?

      Lawyer: Uhm ... pain and suffering.

      Judge: Pain and suffering?

      Lawyer: Yes ... mine. OH GOD, YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT IT'S LIKE WORKING FOR THESE PEOPLE!

      Judge: Point taken. I am ordering the plaintiff to pay $150,000 to each defendant for the pain and suffering that they endured watching this movie, not knowing what they were getting into before doing so. And come to think of it, the plaintiff is ordered to pay me $150,000 as well, since I have also seen this movie, and know full well the pain and suffering the defendants were subjected to. And finally, the plaintiff will pay $150,000 to their attorney for the pain and suffering claimed by working for them, plus a bottle of really good rum to help him forget the ordeal.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
  3. I love this judges! by jeffclay · · Score: 2

    But seriously though. I'm happy to see judges starting to take a stand and putting the corps in their place. We need more judges like this and the judge that tried putting Prenda in its place!

  4. Actual damages by Dancindan84 · · Score: 2

    Can their settlement offers not be used as leverage to show that their actual damage claims are way out of line?

    --
    "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde
    1. Re:Actual damages by cdecoro · · Score: 4, Informative

      No. See Federal Rule of Evidence 408(a)(1) ("Evidence of the following is not admissible — on behalf of any party — either to prove or disprove the validity or amount of a disputed claim or to impeach by a prior inconsistent statement or a contradiction: furnishing, promising, or offering . . . a valuable consideration [i.e. money] in compromising or attempting to compromise the claim").

  5. Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If judgments only made me pay for what I stole, there'd be no incentive NOT to steal! It would become a "catch me if you can, then I'll make good" game.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by tepples · · Score: 5, Informative

      Besides, "infringement" and "stealing" are separate crimes in the first place.

    2. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by fredprado · · Score: 2

      Sure but that does not mean the punishment must be 10 or 100 times the value of what you stole. Twice the value is a fair amount.

    3. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This is not theft, it is copyright infringement.

      In the case of theft of $10 your fines would never exceed hundreds of dollars.

    4. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by DanTheStone · · Score: 4, Informative

      Three times the value ("treble damages") is pretty typical for a "fair amount" in more sane arenas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treble_damages

    5. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      That would depend on the probability of getting caught.

    6. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by hedwards · · Score: 2

      Unlikely, that's going to be a misdemeanor in pretty much any jurisdiction. Which means less than 1 year in jail, not even prison. And probably less than that as you'd get a third of that off for good behavior and I doubt that they would sentence a person for the maximum amount that's permissible as a misdemeanor.

      Now, if we're talking about grand theft, or theft where other crimes are committed, that would be different.

      But, no, you're not going to be sent to prison for years over a $49 theft.

    7. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      to be fair, he is a repeat offender. Yes this time is was a 200$ VCR, but hes shown a pattern. Im not a fan of mandatory 3 strikes your out but there is a difference between a first offense and a repeat offender.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    8. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by bzipitidoo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Analogy? I don't see any analogy, I see only a point, and a not very relevant one at that.

      You made a point, a good point, about stealing. But this is a case about copying, not stealing. Copying is not stealing no matter how many times others try to equate the 2 actions. Don't fall for these sleazy media companies ongoing efforts to confuse the public on this. Don't talk of this matter as if it is or could be some form of theft, you just help these media trolls when you do.

      Nor should copying be considered some heinous crime. It isn't. It shouldn't even be considered a petty infraction. Speeding, one of the lightest infractions on the books, is a more serious offense as it can endanger lives. But copying? Not only should copying not be considered an offense at all, it should be encouraged because it is a huge social good. It is sharing of knowledge, the "standing on the shoulders of giants", that put humanity at the top of the animal kingdom, not sheer intelligence alone. These media trolls want to set themselves up as the gatekeepers through which all sharing must occur, and to collect heavy tolls. It's very nearly as bad as selling the "rights" to breathable air to private interests, and forcing everyone to pay for their air. You benefit from fresh air, so you should pay for it, right? Don't fall for their propaganda and allow them to further muck up our society with their attempts to control all information.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    9. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I think the current copyright system is broken, and I do NOT approve of the actions of the MPAA, RIAA, etc. in these frivolous and ridiculous legal actions. However:

      Copying is not stealing no matter how many times others try to equate the 2 actions.

      I agree that "copying is not stealing" in a strict sense, but I also don't think copying is always the noble deed you make it out to be.

      And, although you don't accept the analogy between copying and stealing, it doesn't mean there aren't some things in common.

      Here's a simple hypothetical situation:

      Suppose you hire a lawyer to draw up some important legal document for you (a will or something). You need the help of an expert to be sure the language is legally binding. Say you go over to his office, he shows you the will, and then he says, "My fee for this is $500."

      He gets up and goes to the bathroom. You go over to his computer and use your USB drive to make a copy of the electronic file of the will. You then get up and leave. Or, you wait for him to come back and say, "Well, I can't pay $500, so no thanks" and then leave. Whatever. You file the legal document.

      Is that "stealing"? You only made a copy of an electronic document. Isn't "information supposed to be free"?

      If it troubles you that you inappropriately accessed his computer, suppose he (stupidly) sends you the document via email, along with his bill. You mutter something about the fee being too high and refuse to pay and claim to "return" the electronic copy he sent. You then go ahead and use your copy of the document anyway.

      In this case, you hired someone to do something for you, and you made an implicit agreement to pay his fee if you want the product. It shouldn't matter whether the form of the product is easily copyable or not: whether you paid a carpenter to build you a new porch or a lawyer to write you a new will, you owe them money for their work.

      Is this strictly "stealing"? No. But it does violate an implicit contract, and I don't think it's too far-fetched to consider it to be akin to theft if you go behind your lawyer's back and still use your copy of the document without paying his fee. You effectively "took" his time and work without paying anything, which sounds very much like "stealing."

      Now, suppose you do the same thing, except you hire a composer to write a new song for your wedding. Again, you refuse the $500 fee, because you can't afford it or don't like the song that much or whatever... but you take the mp3 and use the song at your wedding anyway. Isn't that also akin to "theft," even if it isn't strictly stealing?

      Okay, you might say, but these are clear examples of work-for-hire, so you owe the creator something because you implicitly agreed to pay for their work by asking them to do it.

      Now, we get to a real-world copyright example. Now our songwriter decides, rather than only writing single songs for rich guys and their weddings, that he'd rather contribute his work to society at large. He could solicit some sort of "subscription" for his songs, charging prospective buyers a few dollars each. (This sort of thing did and still does happen for certain types of publications, though in the past it wasn't just for periodicals -- large books and even printed song collections were sometimes printed under subscription.)

      But a young composer without a "big name" doesn't have that option. So he writes a song and arranges for a recording. Rather than charging someone $500 for writing a single song, he figures if he can get 1000 people to pay him 50 cents each, he'll make the same amount. And the U.S. copyright system seems to back him up on this idea.

      But after two guys buy the song (giving him a total of $1 in revenue), you come along and start shouting: "Information should be FREE! Copying is a noble act! Share! Share! Share!" One of those guys uploads the song somewhere on the internet, and several hundred people g

    10. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by bzipitidoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      You are confused on a number of points. Copyright is only a means by which artists are encouraged to produce art. A lot of people are still convinced that there is no other way and that without copyright artists will starve and we'll have no more art. That is of course hysterical nonsense. There are many other ways. Patronage is a big one that is centuries old. You express grave doubts that patronage can be effective. I think you ought to give it another chance, rather than continue to cling to copyright which has so obviously failed in so many ways. With our greatly enhanced ability to communicate, we, the people, should be able to do patronage far, far better than it ever was done in Mozart's day, and we are. The Humble Bundles are a form of patronage. There's also merchandizing and endorsements, public performances, contests with money prizes, and, one you mentioned, work for hire. Kickstarter is work for hire distributed amongst many payees.

      You, like many others, are also stretching what copyright does. It is simply what its name says it is, the "right" to make copies. That right is totally artificial, requiring constant and very expensive enforcement by our governments to work at all. Even so, it would have no chance whatsoever of working were it not for the majority of people believing that it is only fair to compensate artists, and mostly accepting the system we have in place for doing so. But the more these trolls abuse the system, the greater that public awareness rises that copyright has big problems. It's too late to save copyright, not that we would want to anyway. Copyright isn't dead yet, but it will be in another few generations.

      Copyright is only the right to make copies. It is not a defense against plagiarism, a preventer of fraud and cheating, or a guardian of privacy. Further, the kind of rights that a Hollywood studio negotiates in order to turn a book into a movie is totally different than the kind they'd like to deny to private individuals who just want to make a backup copy or do a time or format shift, whatever conflation the media trolls try to make. We should use different names for these different things. Your examples about the lawyer drawing up a will for you or a musician composing music for your wedding that you then take (doesn't matter whether it's by copying or outright theft of the original media) without paying are not violations of copyright, they are violations of other things such as labor laws and contracts. Suppose you called a plumber who fixed your plumbing and then you refused to pay? Suppose you saw a doctor, got treated, and whether or not the treatment was successful, you refused to pay? (Maybe your medical problem was too difficult to fix in a 15 minute office visit, and all the doctor could do was identify the problem and send you to on to appropriate specialists.) Suppose you're a programmer and your employer fires you and refuses to pay you for the work you did during the last month you were with them, claiming it was no good and so they shouldn't have to pay? That's the same sort of thing as not paying the lawyer or musician in your examples, and is covered under other laws. Copyright is hardly the only thing holding society together!

      Your next example, about the young, unknown artist who sells 2 copies, and then can't sell any more because there are free copies available, merely illustrates that copyright is a broken business model. The young artist will simply have to use a different business model, that's all. Stop crying over this and face it, copyright does not work. Certainly we should not go to the lengths required to make copyright work in spite of natural law. DRM is such an abysmal failure that it is a farce. Consider that a public library can buy just one copy of a work, and then loan it out to dozens of people. A used book and record store does much the same. Even if you think banning used bookstores and shutting all our public libraries is necessary for the sake of copyright, friends can still swap books, CDs, flash drives, and the like in private quite easily. That makes for hundreds of people who got to consume a work without paying, something you seem to find morally repugnant. But it is entirely legal. And good.

      --
      Intellectual Property is a monopolistic, selfish, and defective concept. It is "tyranny over the mind of man"
    11. Re:Unknown Lamer, that's not how justice works by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      If you're trying to address copyright issues, why take up so much of your reply with theft of services? The issue is not that you made an illicit copy of the will or song, but that you agreed to pay somebody for producing it, and took the result of their work without paying them. Much like stiffing a teenager who just mowed your grass.

      The only relevant thing you said assumes that having free copies available reduces the demand for buying the copyrighted work. We know this is false in some cases, and the evidence for the assumption is spotty at best.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  6. Lawsuit piracy by langelgjm · · Score: 5, Funny

    "... the manner in which plaintiff is pursuing the Doe defendants has resulted in $123,850 savings in filing fees alone."

    So... they only paid for a single instance of the lawsuit, then unfairly duplicated it, when they should have paid for each individual instance of the lawsuit?

    That's lawsuit piracy! Think of all the lawyers who could have been employed had they filed individuals lawsuits.

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
    1. Re:Lawsuit piracy by Penguinshit · · Score: 2

      I sincerely wish I had mod points right now...

    2. Re:Lawsuit piracy by saveferrousoxide · · Score: 2

      This should get like Comment O' the Week status! Sometimes, you just need to be able to score 6!

    3. Re:Lawsuit piracy by steelfood · · Score: 2

      And judges! Will nobody think of the judges!

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
  7. If it's so wrong... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The judge was not enthused that they offered to settle for $7500 while noting that potential penalties could be as much as $150,000.

    How is this different han what DA's do with the accused?

    1. Re:If it's so wrong... by cranky_chemist · · Score: 2

      For starters, DAs don't typically sue people. Criminal and civil cases are two entirely separate beasts.

    2. Re:If it's so wrong... by PhxBlue · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Way to miss the point. GP is referring to DAs' sometimes ridiculous overprosecution of cases, e.g. Aaron Schwartz.

      --
      !#@%*)anks for hanging up the phone, dear.
    3. Re:If it's so wrong... by Hatta · · Score: 2

      That makes it even worse. Being extorted into accepting a prison sentence is far, far worse than being extorted into paying money.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
  8. Re:Cool web site by justthinkit · · Score: 2
    What I meant by 'no "back" from their site', is that the "clear screen" then Javascript message must be conditionally served over their content as part of the original web page (because there is no available 'back' arrow from that tab in my browser). So people are going to go there, get the turn on javascript message, turn it on and then have no way of reloading the content (as the url showing in the address line is one with "nojavascript" in it).
    .

    All in all they have done a very effective job of (1) forcing me to see one of their ads, (2) making it very difficult to actually serve their content to the average viewer, (3) making me never want to go to their web site again (the behavior will continue across their whole web site until you enable Javascript), (4) causing me to re-disable Javascript for their site after reading the article and (5) encouraging me to add them to my hosts file so that I don't accidentally go there again.

    --
    I come here for the love
  9. Is $7,500 really appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    If I was convicted of watching a Steven Seagal movie, I'd ask for at least $10,000 in restitution!

  10. Re:Cool web site by illumastorm · · Score: 2

    I had to block about 20 objects in order to read the article. The entire right sidebar was nothing but ads.

  11. Re:Cool web site by cffrost · · Score: 3, Informative

    It sounds like you accidentally failed to install NoScript.

    --
    Thank you, Edward Snowden.

    "Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
  12. Re:Cool web site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Easy to resolve: if you're using Firefox go to Tools / Options / Advanced - and then check Warn me when websites try to redirect or reload the page.

    You'll get a nice warning which you don't allow and can actually read the site.

  13. Re:Cool web site by Tx · · Score: 2

    " (2) making it very difficult to actually serve their content to the average viewer"
    The average viewer has javascript enabled.

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
  14. Change Approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It occurs to me that the movie industry could change its approach here. Why not work with streaming companies and send these people a letter with some choices. Pay for the movie at its real costs, purchase a streaming service, pay a fine, or prove you already have done so. If the government worked with them to make a resonable but annoying fine linked to their taxes so they have to otherwise pay it, the vast majority of people would buy the film or the service. Why not, you get out of trouble but the fine is sane so you feel you have some choice. The industry gets its money, a small amount of which goes to pay the government's costs. The government is happy as fine based systems are vastly cheaper if not profitable for them. Everybody wins.

  15. self representation = not smart by davidwr · · Score: 4, Informative

    A person who represents himself has a fool for a client.

    - paraphrase of a well known quote whose origins I've forgotten

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:self representation = not smart by Yaur · · Score: 2

      It's an Abe Lincoln quote...

  16. Reading comprehension fail by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 3, Informative

    cluedweasel says in the parent post:
    "The judge was not enthused that they offered to settle for $7500 while noting that potential penalties could be as much as $150,000."

    While technically accurate, it's extremely misleading. That makes it sound like the judge got angry that they were letting people off the hook for "only" $7500 when they could have asked for more. In fact, the judge's point was that a movie that could be legally purchased on Amazon as a disc ($9) or a rental ($3,.99) should not have a settlement offer of $7500. The $150,000 issue wasn't made by the judge and is in fact essentially irrelevant to the ruling. Once again the person who posts something interesting on Slashdot icnorrectly seizes on a relatively minor point as being the key issue of the post.

  17. Re:"Excessive fines" -- as government does it... by void* · · Score: 2

    I once got a letter from the NTTA which purported to be a 'Final Notice' when I'd never previously received any notice whatsoever, for a motorcycle going through a toll booth in Dallas that was not, in fact, my motorcycle.

    You couldn't tell what the plate number actually was in the picture (although you could tell it was not my motorcycle due to the tail light positioning relative to the plate). It appeared that they made a list of everyone who had a motorcycle with a plate number matching the parts of the plate they could read, and were cycling through those people, sending the letter out and sending it to the next person on the list when that person could show it wasn't them.

    The letter, of course, emphasized legal consequences for not paying an $80 fine for what amounted to $1.50 in tolls.

    --


    Code or be coded.
  18. <deleted> javascript by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 2

    Or, for a source that doesn't blank the whole screen with a meta refresh and demand you enable javascript before it will let you read the article: http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/us-judge-in-ore-dismisses-movie-pirating-lawsuit-calling-it-unfair-reverse-class-action/2013/05/14/74ca6946-bcde-11e2-b537-ab47f0325f7c_story.html

  19. Solution by drrilll · · Score: 2

    It should be a fine, like $100, that can be charged to the owner of the IP, a lot like automated speeding tickets. Enough to be a deterrent, but not enough to ruin anyone's life. Like speeding, we know that it is technically wrong, but sometimes we want to do it anyway and run the risk of getting caught. And like speeding, piracy will never be eliminated.

    The other thing it would do is eliminate these type of shakedowns. Because there is the risk that one day it is a not so sensible judge, and people's lives are ruined because one time they downloaded a Steven Seagal movie or Paul Blart Mall Cop.