How BlackBerry Is Riding iOS and Android To Power Its Comeback

alancronin sends this excerpt from ZDNet: "... the trend that brutally undercut BlackBerry phones during the past five years — the 'bring your own device' movement — is now driving significant sales of BlackBerry Enterprise Service (BES), the company's backend software. 'Our customers have been asking, "Can you just take what you've done on BlackBerry and put it on iOS and Android?"' said Pete Devenyi, BlackBerry's SVP of Enterprise Software. ... Secure Work Space will be an app in the Apple App Store and Google Play, pending approval from Apple and Google, respectively. It will include secure email, calendar, contacts, tasks, and document editing. It won't allow data leakage including copy and paste between Secure Work Space and the rest of the device. IT will be able to remotely wipe everything in the Secure Work Space without affecting any of the other apps or data on the person's device, in a BYOD scenario."

Comments

Copy and paste

[jcfandino]

It won't allow data leakage including copy and paste between Secure Work Space and the rest of the device.

So, it's not a bug. It's a feature!

Re:Copy and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

tried to copy and phone number to a contact... ended up using paper and pen. Great security feature. :-)

Re:Copy and paste

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not meant to be a feature to protect from users themselves leaking the data. I think it's designed against malware which could try to "emulate" user's behavior. Where does the user need to copy contacts from his corporate address book besides corporate e-mail which is provided by the same app anyway?

Re:Copy and paste

[theshowmecanuck]

e.g. email me your phone number and I'll call you. oops need to write it down before opening the phone app. just an example. same for bbm or text.

Re:Copy and paste

[bingoUV]

Click on the phone number in the email / text (not sure of bbm). Confirm that you want to call the number. Call.

Re:Copy and paste

[theshowmecanuck]

not if it is placed in a sandbox like blackberry is proposing with their new apps for iphone and android.

Re:Copy and paste

[bingoUV]

Sandbox is no reason to prevent a user click on a number in the sandboxed application from asking the user if he wants to call that number. At all.

Since the sandboxed application is capable of using a framework provided, or operating system provided tool to present information to the user, it is easy for the framework / operating system to figure that directly that the user clicked on the number. Rather than the application telling the framework that the user clicked on the number. The latter would have been a violation of the sandbox, not the former.

Talking out both side of their mouth

[Picass0]

I wonder why they are supporting the "dying tablet market"?

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[IntermodalAgain]

I think if the tablet market dies, it will die because of the gigantic phone that doubles as a tablet market. Really though, tablets are not a standalone device. They're an accessory and a document viewer. They've found a niche in a lot of industries that have been clamoring for a basic digital reader. Airlines and medical have been dabbling in iPads, and shipping companies have been using such devices for a long time. I doubt tablets will ever take over computing, but I think they'll have a place for many years to come.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[Ravaldy]

Tablets will take over eventually. Probably not exactly in the form factor we see today but it will for sure take over. Input methods, lack of processing power and limited network connection speeds are holding back it's ability to completely replace the PC. The future of having 1 device handle all your computing needs is not that far away. You'll be able to project the device image on monitors and televisions with wireless access... Anybody doubting this probably also thinks earth is flat.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[Anonymous Coward]

Will it also be powered by magic?

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[IntermodalAgain]

Even if tablets do "take over" as a primary computing device, I very much doubt they will be much more than interfaces to some kind of cloud service at that point.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree, it will be netbook/laptops with a removable screen that functions as a standalone tablet. It seems inevitable at this point. Though tablet size phones seem to be a bit much to me, they seem to be catching on as well.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[rasmusbr]

Saying that tablets have found a niche is a bit like saying that hamburgers have found a niche. Tablets are cheap, or will be cheap once the surge in demand has been satisfied and the manufacturers have recouped their investments, and tablets can do 75% of what an average user does on a laptop, and more.

If you look at it from a hardcore user on a budget angle it makes sense to spend a little less on your laptop or desktop and monitor and direct some money towards a tablet or two. More machines and more screens make you more productive.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[alexander_686]

It’s not “Tablets” taking over, it is the Thin Client model that is taking over. High internet speeds make this possible but tablets make it portable.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[InvalidError]

People laughed at the Tablet PC concept ~10 years ago... I laughed at it too mainly due to the ~$3000 price tag back then.

Things sure have come a long way from then and I would not be surprised if the Tablet PC concept came back with a vengeance over the next 2-3 years. Intel's intention to make most of Broadwell's lineup BGA-only next year sounds like they are going to be making a big push for embedded/all-in-one/NUC form factors in 2014-2015.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[IntermodalAgain]

Yes, exactly my point.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[IntermodalAgain]

I think perhaps you misunderstood my niche comment. I was referring to two industries where getting a "niche" is like guaranteeing yourself a future. Now that airlines are using a device in the cockpit, it will be there until Hell freezes over. And have you tried getting nurses to change anything in how they do things? Get 'em on a tablet and they'll fight any other change tooth-and-nail.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[InvalidError]

Low-end tablets sold as client devices, sure.

Productivity-oriented "Tablet PCs" on the other hand will likely continue carrying increasing processing power and other resources at least until they catch up with laptops. That's where things will start getting interesting.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[Anonymous Coward]

Personal computers were the only device to handle all our computing needs. Tablets in a different form factor are no longer tablets, right? Either that or tablets are personal computers in a different form factor.
Some people consider tablets the acme of personal computing because PCs are often associated with Windows, an overcomplicated OS which tries to be the jack of all trader, but in fact is master of none. Tablets on the contrary are associated with iOS or Android, and that is what needed to be done — getting rid of an overcomplicated OS, that is why tablets are so popular not because of multitouch and other stuff which is pretty much evolutionary. In fact iOS and Android are already becoming complicated and in several years we will end up with the same crap that modern PCs are. Something more simple will take over.
Tablets became popular because of simplicity, but people no longer want a simpler tablet that is why tablets are doomed.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[rasmusbr]

I got what you meant, but my point is that people in general will keep using tablets until someone comes up with an invention that defeats the benefit of owning multiple devices with multiple screens. If the tablet market dies it will be because we're all wearing contact lenses that paint images directly to our retinas.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[IntermodalAgain]

Ah, then I think we are in agreement.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[I'm New Around Here]

No, that's just silly. It will use dilithium crystals.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[Solandri]

Really though, tablets are not a standalone device. They're an accessory and a document viewer. They've found a niche in a lot of industries that have been clamoring for a basic digital reader. Airlines and medical have been dabbling in iPads, and shipping companies have been using such devices for a long time. I doubt tablets will ever take over computing, but I think they'll have a place for many years to come.

Tablets are here to stay. I've been saying this ever since I bought a tablet PC to play around with in 2004, years before the iPad (or iPhone) ever showed up.

Tablets are what will replace the clipboard. Any time you need portable data entry or data viewing (what you do with a clipboard today), you'll be able to do it with a tablet in the future. Every business I have seen uses clipboards. The original tablet PCs were too heavy and clumsy to replace a clipboard. But within minutes of using one in tablet mode, it was obvious that that was what was going to happen as soon as the technology shrank to a more wieldy weight and size.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[Anonymous Coward]

> ... it will die because of the gigantic phone that doubles as a tablet market

Current market for tablets is quite big. I can't imagine a phone that doubles tablet market.

Re:Talking out both side of their mouth

[Anonymous Coward]

Last year I bought a phone with a 5" screen, and though I like the size when using it, it does feel too big when it is my pocket, maybe that would be less of an issue if it was a bit thinner and it curved to fit my leg when in my pocket, but when I get a new one, it'll be a bit smaller simply for the comfort of carrying it around. And even with a 5" screen, I often prefer to use my Nexus 7 at home. So for the reason that a 5" phone isn't a good replacement for even a 7" tablet and that many people will find bigger phones unwieldy to carry, tablets are here to stay.

Already a few services out there

[thechanklybore]

This is exactly the same as Good ( http://www1.good.com/applications/good-for-enterprise ) and Samsung Knox is something similar.

I wonder if they'll manage to carve out a place for themselves based on BES inertia. However, having administered BES, I sincerely hope they do the dodo.

Re:Already a few services out there

[IntermodalAgain]

The only thing that kept a couple of users on Blackberry in my last job was the free international messaging on Blackberry's system. Doing business overseas, people found that to be the one perk that kept them from switching. Now, free messengers are becoming common enough that even those specific users no longer care. One switched to iPhone and I don't know what the other main Blackberry guy is running at this point, as we haven't kept in touch.

Re:Already a few services out there

[thechanklybore]

Yeah, I was always utterly confused as to why they stuck to Blackberry for this, rather than using Skype on iPhone/Android. I think that most people viewed Skype as "calling" application, even though the text chat was totally fine. It's already cross-platform and free. Must be the Microsoft curse at work.

Re:Already a few services out there

[IntermodalAgain]

I think to a certain extent some people know that the Internet in some countries is filtered, and that it could lead at any point to "social" products being blocked. Blackberry Messenger on the other hand would seem a less likely candidate.

Re:Already a few services out there

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because the government was already monitoring BBM.

Re:Already a few services out there

[IntermodalAgain]

Your point?

Re:Already a few services out there

[alexander_686]

Network effect. It your counter-parties use BBM and not Skype, you use BBM and not Skype. (Until there is a critical mass on Skype, and then the networking effect goes into reverse.)

Re:Already a few services out there

[h4rr4r]

This. BES is a total POS. I am not sure how something that simply connects email to phones can be so crappy, but it is.

Re:Already a few services out there

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a current BES admin, and I have to say that they've improved the interface considerably. I'm also using Balance on my own Z10 and I have to admit, it's pretty slick. All we need now is an RSA client and we'll be set. Oh, wait a minute, I was able to sideload that.

Where BB has a real leg up is that as of this week, an enterprise customer can take their existing "old school" BES, upgrade to the new BES10.1, and run their entire BB fleet. This is considerably less disruptive than migrating to an entire new MDM platform, and when you consider that iOS and Android clients can be added easily, then it becomes kind of a no-brainer.

And when each existing license migrates to BES 10 for free, it makes the decision that much easier.

Re: Already a few services out there

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks for the info RIM, err I mean BBRY employee, number 1232212.

Re:Already a few services out there

[Anonymous Coward]

Curiously enough, RIM used to produce a basic "BlackBerry Connect" push mail/calendar client for Symbian OS-based smartphones, if http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/3902_Blackberry_Connect_Software_no.php is to be believed - but it seems that it was short-lived, and didn't provide a great deal of functionality.

Blackberry Enterprise

[IntermodalAgain]

Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model. Sure, there are users out there who have a genuine need for such a concept, but the problem that really needs to be addressed is user understanding of data security practices, not giving them technology that encourages continuing bad practices in ignorance.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[trybywrench]

Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model. Sure, there are users out there who have a genuine need for such a concept, but the problem that really needs to be addressed is user understanding of data security practices, not giving them technology that encourages continuing bad practices in ignorance.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[IntermodalAgain]

I see what you're trying to say with the bold text, but the issue isn't that there is a need in some select cases.

Until such a day as RIM brings something that makes them more exciting than a trip to the dentist, they'll continue to lose anyone who doesn't absolutely have to have their specific features. That's no way to stay afloat in the mobile device market today, and their users will be essentially abandoned by the market.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

but isn't the point this indicates is that RIM know they're not going to stay afloat in the mobile device market... hence moving to providing services for the OS's that will stay afloat in the mobile device market.

That's my take at least.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you even saying? The business model isn't to give them some false sense of security with an easily lost phone. It's to allow them to securely access email/corp communications while mobile. Is your idea of an efficient workforce to only allow email access from a locked down desktop behind secured steel and concrete blast doors only opened by a DNA test? You must be one of those "security gurus" who thinks the only acceptable way to use a computer is to disconnect it from the network and make sure it's powered off. Fucking moron.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model.

Are you insane? Or you just have no idea what a blackberry enterprise server (BES) does?

The BES manages strong encryption (AES by default) on the devices. The encryption keys are found only in two places: one the BES, and on the blackberry itself.

The mobile carrier doesn't have the keys, and RIM doesn't have the keys. So if a government comes calling with a warrant, RIM doesn't have anything to give them. It's a very elegant design.

The BES can force mandatory policies onto the blackberries, such as strong full-disk encryption, strong passwords, remote tracking, remote wiping, remote locking, wiping if the phone doesn't check in regularly, restricting what apps can access, and many, many other things.

There are a number of very smart & paranoid people at RIM who have thought long and hard about different attack scenarios and how to prevent them. That's why blackberry has been certified by many governments, NATO, and others: http://us.blackberry.com/business/topics/security/certifications.html

Unfortunately, the market doesn't seem to be interested in strong security and is far more interested in giving up all their personal/company information in return for the latest shiny device. Sad.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[IntermodalAgain]

One might think so initially. But they're naive if they think they will be able to compete with existing and future products that offer the same services either as a package or a la carte and do it either cheaper or for free (and probably even better).

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[asliarun]

Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model. Sure, there are users out there who have a genuine need for such a concept, but the problem that really needs to be addressed is user understanding of data security practices, not giving them technology that encourages continuing bad practices in ignorance.

Honestly, I've felt for a long time that Blackberry should have done a better job with their enterprise dominance - instead of doing this half assed job of trying to appeal to every market segment. A few years ago, almost all company issued phones were blackberries. Imagine if blackberry had focused on letting you do more with your blackberry - like teleconferencing, video conferencing, virtual workspaces, screensharing, collaboration etc. They had the software, the network, the hardware presence. Their competitors should always have been Cisco, Avaya, WebEx, Netmeeting, Sharepoint, gtalk, heck even Google hangout - *not* Apple and Samsung.

I see the same story with Intel and Microsoft. The amount of hubris these companies have shown - - just beggars the imagination. I mean, we're talking about common sense stuff, not some fancy "blue sky strategy" or whatever. I can understand that big behemoths like these can get blind-sided by other innovative products - stuff like the iPhone - but these companies have literally let it slide for not just a year or a couple of years, but for 5, 6, 7 years. It is ridiculous.

What is even more ridiculous is that the moment these guys come up with a big successful product, they stop innovating. It is all incremental feature creep from there on. I mean, look at even companies that are supposedly engineering driven as opposed to management driven. Look at yahoo messenger. They've been around for donkey's years, nailed chat, supported offline messages years ago when gtalk still doesn't, but just stopped innovating besides adding some silly emoticon crapware. I haven't used it in years, but I'm pretty sure that they still don't do video chat properly, especially video group chat. /rant

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[drinkypoo]

Are you insane? Or you just have no idea what a blackberry enterprise server (BES) does?

Provides governments with backdoor access to your supposedly encrypted data? Check.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[IntermodalAgain]

Interesting timing, mentioning Gtalk right as the product was merged with Hangouts. I am still wondering why they didn't merge Wave into Talk, and when they will roll Voice into the new Hangouts now that they're promising SMS messaging as an upcoming feature.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

same AC again =)

ok... but doesn't that go against you original comment?

i.e. say service-X is free and better than BES... wouldn't you still be scratching your head? wouldn't service-X then become a fundamentally flawed business model.

sorry if i'm getting that confused.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[IntermodalAgain]

You're confusing a concept and a business model. It's a good concept and a bad business model. Create industry standards for strong security and it simply becomes part of the next generation of "shiny devices" instead of a niche.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Provides governments with backdoor access to your supposedly encrypted data? Check.

Citation needed. There is zero evidence of that.

The BES platform was designed so that all email in transit from the BES to the blackberry are encrypted by AES.

The encryption keys are on the BES, and on the blackberry itself. RIM does not have the encryption keys.

The key exchange between the BES and the blackberry can be done by direct USB cable - hard to intercept that.

So even if RIM wanted to hand over the decrypted data or the keys, RIM doesn't have them.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[hjf]

Well, since the iphone came out, the BYOD movement got interesting. In all these years, I suppose, RIM saw that people wanted to carry only 1 phone, and, as it was, it wasn't going to be a BB.

They failed at delivering a decent, modernized UI that didn't depend on the touchpad/joystick thing. People wanted BIG SCREENS and TOUCH. I haven't seen the Z10 but i suppose that was going to be THE ipod/android competitor. But it was too late to the game. About 3 years too late.

I guess BB is transitioning into a software company. BB server, and not much later, BB CLOUD server. Throw around buzzwords like CLOUD and BYOD, and you have an excellent sales pitch for a CIO.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model. Sure, there are users out there who have a genuine need for such a concept, but the problem that really needs to be addressed is user understanding of data security practices, not giving them technology that encourages continuing bad practices in ignorance.

Kind of like MS Windows and the whole Windows ecosystem? How it's continued to be used makes me scratch my head, but it's there and it's strong.

The best isn't always the winner. BlackBerry was first in business and the infrastructure for most businesses already exists. They've already paid for it. Unless there's a compelling reason to move, they'll keep it. If they can compel BlackBerry to migrate to a new platform, then it's a huge benefit since the backend (equipment, support staff, etc.) is more of an investment than the user side.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Other products for iPhone (and maybe Android) already do what BES does. So the point remains, why try to replicate BES when something else already does it on the other platforms, natively?

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Like what? Whatsapp with non-existent encryption or Skype which is monitored by MS and no one really knows about how secure it is? Enterprise wants security, BES is security, not mails/messages/conferencing/whatever. They are using kewl BYOD term here because this way it works with both enterprise which needs security and users who just want their iPhones, not using Skype for work-related stuff.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Khyber]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/02/rim_keys_india/

What, again?

RIM certainly has SOME part of the code and as such they can give out the relevant stuff to the authorities, including the BASE KEYS.

That 'government certification' nonsense is just that.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Farmer Pete]

The best smartphone OS for the enterprise is still the BB by FAR. I'd list iOS as #2 because of their limited hardware selection and OS updates. I'm not sure if Windows or Android would be next, but I'm guessing it would probably be Windows phone. This is not to say that your users will want to use the phone you give them, but from an administrative perspective, BB is leaps and bounds above everything else. My favorite setting on the BES server was that you can wipe the BB when the battery gets below a certain threshold. So, you could tell a BB that if it ever gets below 10% battery, wipe itself. I just had a hard time coming up with any legitimate reason to implement such a feature.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Provides governments with backdoor access to your supposedly encrypted data? Check.

AFAIK, that only applies to some regimes, who are exerting control over the BES provider (usually a state telecom), for phones using that telecom-provided BES.

If you're running your own BES, maybe the NSA can crack your keys, but otherwise it's pretty solid. No backdoor there that we know of.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[tlhIngan]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/08/02/rim_keys_india/

What, again?

RIM certainly has SOME part of the code and as such they can give out the relevant stuff to the authorities, including the BASE KEYS.

That 'government certification' nonsense is just that.

Uh, no.

You're confusing the consumer "internet edition" with "Enterprise edition".

Internet edition blackberries are what you get when you go to your carrier and buy it on a blackberry plan and they give you email and all that. In which case, what happens is your blackberry connects to RIM's servers and gets your mail through RIM proxying to your carrier's email inbox.

BES though is different. You pair a blackberry with BES and they generate a set of keys. Your blackberry proxies its connection with RIM to reach BES. When it gets to BES, the data transferred is using the key set up during pairing. End to end, it's encrypted.

What RIM did with India was set up a RIM server in there, so internet edition phones proxy through it, and then onto the carrier email server. When a BES attached one does it, the link is still encrypted because that server does not have the key.

Basically, all BB traffic goes through RIM or a RIM server set up in the middle east or india or wherever. From there, the server is what contacts the mail server you're using. As that part is unencrypted, they can decrypt your email and such at that point.

HOWEVER, use BES, and what happens is the RIM server connects to your BES server and your BES server then communicates to your blackberry via the pre-shared key. No one can snoop on that email because its encrypted with keys only your blackberry and BES know. Even with those servers they can't examine your traffic because the server does not have the key.

Of course, the bigger question is who buys a blackberry and NOT use BES with it...

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't answer the question and your response demonstrates you don't have any idea what you're talking about. But do continue...

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[geoskd]

The best smartphone OS for the enterprise is still the BB by FAR. I'd list iOS as #2 because of their limited hardware selection and OS updates.

Bzzzt, wrong.

The best smartphone OS for the enterprise is whatever the user shows up with because the corporation doesn't have to shell out several hundreds of dollars, and in most cases, $50+ per month for every user. If your company has 300k employees, phone plans alone will run you $180M / year. Off loading that expense to your employees is not trivial. Now add the cost of a new BB for each one of them every two years (or however long they last on average), and you're looking at another $100M a year. That is not small change to any organization, and not having to pay it is worth a lot of wrangling on the back end.

Re: Blackberry Enterprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Why feed the bbry employee, err I mean troll?

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[Khyber]

I can guarantee you're wrong.

TSA certainly had access to EVERYTHING, and I'm using BES with a company in the UK on my BlackBerry.

Try again when you actually know what powers the government does have.

In fact, try that again when you're actually doing some contract work that involves the government and travel.

You are not secure by any means

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[atamido]

Blackberry Enterprise is one of those products that I really just have to scratch my head at. It has always seemed to me that encouraging users to treat as secure something which is easily lost, stolen, or damaged is a fundamentally flawed concept for a business model.

Are you insane? Or you just have no idea what a blackberry enterprise server (BES) does?

The BES manages strong encryption (AES by default) on the devices. The encryption keys are found only in two places: one the BES, and on the blackberry itself.

The mobile carrier doesn't have the keys, and RIM doesn't have the keys. So if a government comes calling with a warrant, RIM doesn't have anything to give them. It's a very elegant design.

The BES can force mandatory policies onto the blackberries, such as strong full-disk encryption, strong passwords, remote tracking, remote wiping, remote locking, wiping if the phone doesn't check in regularly, restricting what apps can access, and many, many other things.

All of the encryption stuff is exactly like ActiveSync, which comes on every device worth it's salt, and every organization that has Exchange (is there an enterprise that doesn't?). All of the policies are included in ActiveSync, except for "remote tracking, remote locking, wiping if the phone doesn't check in regularly, restricting what apps can access", and most of those are easily implemented with a mobile management program. That said, most enterprises I've seen really only care about the features ActiveSync comes with.

We have a BES that we are actively trying to get the last few stragglers off of so we can decommission it. Really, once the first iPhone supported ActiveSync (2008?) BES stopped being relevant to any sysadmin I've interacted with.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[intermodal]

Yes, you're right. You are getting that confused.

You are assuming Service-X is proprietary and that nobody else can/does provide the services people want. What would get me to quit scratching my head is an open standard.

As we know, Blackberry's products are doing poorly in the marketplace as it stands right now, and rightly so given their failure to meet the demands of today's mobile device users. Create an open standard and you force everyone to step it up rather than giving the impression that they can rest on their laurels (in whatever quantity they may exist) as RIM has.

If RIM can't hack it on those terms, they can and should exit the market.

Re:Blackberry Enterprise

[bingoUV]

Yes, but then the BES keys have been handed over to the government by the company running the BES server. The attack vector doesn't include Blackberry (erstwhile RIM) in this case. Run your own BES, don't hand over keys (if you can) to the government and there is no attack vector. That is what is being discussed.

I want one

[bhlowe]

Remotely wipe a device of its data? Wow, Apple should have thought of that.

Re:I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

http://support.apple.com/kb/PH2701?viewlocale=en_US&locale=en_US

Not hard.

Quite easy, in fact.

From Apple.

Just sayin'.

Re:I want one

[ultracompetent]

Actually the key here is that you can remote wipe only the corporate data. Some people are not keen in connecting a BYOD to a corporate email service if that service gets snoop, wipe, and enforces security policies over your whole device, (including personal email, apps, etc.) This sounds like a reasonable tradeoff .. give the corporation a walled off area of your phone that they can enforce policy over and allow you to still own the device and services you pay for out of your own pocket.

Re:I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

woosh

Re:I want one

[thechanklybore]

Indeed, I've always thought that agreeing to allow the Activesync portion of the Android exchange client to remotely wipe all my data was a bit harsh. That said, I'm in charge of the Exchange server so there ain't gonna be any wiping of my phone. Obviously the boss has to stay nice though.

Re:I want one

[Dirtnapper75]

Remotely wipe a device of its data? Wow, Apple should have thought of that.

Posting under the assumption that the above comment was laced with sarcasm... Blackberry had remote wipe capabilities via BES long before the iPhone was even released.

Re:I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe that was the joke.

Re:I want one

[TheGratefulNet]

can apple wipe just the 'work' portion and leave the personal (my email, etc) alone?

no?

then shut the hell up, then.

I was asked by the folks at my work to install exchange stuff so I can run outlook (sigh). I started the install when a dialog came up asking if I will grant 'whole device wipe' privs to the IT guys. fuck no! its MY device! whole system wipe? really? JUST because I want to install calendering from exchange on my phone?

I canceled and so far, my home phone has no work stuff on it.

it would be really nice to be able to keep them separate and risk-free.

apple has nothing like this, do they? normally, its an all or nothing wipe, just like outlook 'wants'.

Re:I want one

[h4rr4r]

There are roms that will fix that problem. They will just say "yup I wiped!" while not doing a damn thing.

Re:I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

Just install davmail and mirror your work email to imap and be done with it ;)

Re:I want one

[93 Escort Wagon]

Of course it's funny that the one device that DOES have this ability is the one device no one wants as their personal phone anymore.

Re:I want one

[hjf]

Same in android. Permissions aren't granular enough. For example, when an app request "sd card access", android gives it FULL access. Not a sandbox to the app's directory or something. Very silly.

Re:I want one

[DeDmeTe]

I realize the parent was trying to be sarcastic, but remote phone wipe has been a feature on BES for a long time, I know it was available on the first BES I setup running 3.x many years ago.

Re:I want one

[bhlowe]

Big deal. Someone steals my iPhone, I can wipe it. Yes, would be nice to leave an app or two that would help me capture the thief... But the bottom line is Blackberry is doomed and all the stories and hoping isn't going to change that.

Re:I want one

[Vrtigo1]

Yeah, Apple should have thought of putting remote wipe functionality in the hands of an admin who doesn't have the end user's Apple ID credentials, and enabled them to do it in a way that leaves the user's personal data intact and only wipes corporate data. If they had, 90% of the folks using 3rd party MDM software probably wouldn't be.

Re:I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

They are bringing "this ability" to other platforms BECAUSE they are well aware that no one wants their phones. Were you even paying attention?

Re:I want one

[Fnord666]

apple has nothing like this, do they? normally, its an all or nothing wipe, just like outlook 'wants'.

Not Apple per se, but check out air-watch. We use it at work to put a wall around corporate data on our user's personal iOS devices.

Re:I want one

[mbourgon]

I've been using an app lately called DIVIDE which allows this. You don't lock your phone, & it only wipes the data within the App. Meeting notifications pop up. Free, too, somehow.

Now if they could add some blackberry-style filters (where the email doesn't go to the device, but stays in my Inbox), I'd be ecstatic.

Re:I want one

[BitZtream]

air-watch is just a system to create provisioning profiles with a nice UI rather than doing it by hand.

It depends entirely on features that are already in the phone and can be used by anyone capable of following documentation and creating an XML file.

air-watch just makes it easy to do it on a large scale, it doesn't actually add new security related features.

Re:I want one

[PNutts]

apple has nothing like this, do they? normally, its an all or nothing wipe, just like outlook 'wants'.

Moxier, a 3rd party iOS app.

Re:I want one

[PNutts]

I don't disagree, but to be fair you can turn on iCloud backups and simply restore it all back.

Re:I want one

[Anonymous Coward]

Ya, and the secure module that BBRY is offering also encapsulates things like copy/paste buffers. You can't copy from the corporate side of the device and paste to the personal space.

BES is primed to win the DoD contract. It will probably havea large corporate following also.

I have a Z10 and will never go back to Android. All the fragmentation of Android is stupid. People have to add all sorts of apps to their phone jsut to get what my phone gives me out of hte box (good keyboard, etc). I don't play games and in terms of a social media tool or busienss tool, the Z10 out of box dominates any other phone out of box.

Re:I want one

[dysonlu]

You misplaced your phone. It must be wiped ASAP per corporate policy . Two days later, you found your phone.

Thank you, come again.

Re:I want one

[bhlowe]

I often misplace my iPhone, and when I do, I use "Find my Phone" to locate it and I can see it's exact location on a map, and I can have it play a sound to help me locate it. I've never been without my phone for more than a few hours, let alone days. Even if I wipe my whole phone, it can be fully restored over the cloud. BlackBerry can't make a comeback without apps. Apple is loving all of the corporate, security conscious clients that are now satisfied with Apple's devices, and Apple will keep making inroads.. while BlackBerry will never have a chance against the apps available on IOS and Android.

Re:I want one

[gordo3000]

the good app has this feature. And it even allows web browsing the corporate network (which is walled off) through the app on my iphone while my bb can only follow corp policy, including no photo taking, no voice recording, no blog visiting, no "questionable sites" visited. the Good app (iPhone or Android I believe, though I only use it on iOS right now) dominates the bb, and gives me a reliable device, not some overpriced bb POS.

bb is a terrible device. there is no middle ground. it exists because old people who started with it still want it in corporate suites, not because it offers anything of any real use. every reasonable security feature sitting on the bb exists via at least the good app (and probably many more), and the good app let's me use the smartphone as a smartphone because it is walled off. what bb is doing is trying to make sure companies like mine don't completely ditch them, which we are well on our way to doing (monthly allowance for your personal device, app that gives full connectivity, etc), by offering a service that is the same as one we already went through the trouble of rolling out almost 2 years ago.

Re:I want one

[Vrtigo1]

Potentially, depending on how the MDM software handles these things.

Good MDM software will containerize corporate data and put it in a 3rd party mail app which won't be backed up by iCloud.

Oh Good

[bufke]

I hope it makes Android and iOS fully dependent on a desktop (windows only) computer and heavy weight BES server (windows only). I sure hope it changes the software so to do anything on the phone itself I have to memorize commands that aren't in any menu option.

I can't wait to have BBM. That will teach those bad employees who think they can choose their own xmpp client with Google Chat.

Sorry, disgruntled BES admin rant. Just shut it down a few months ago! Life is great!

Re:Oh Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed here. I had the misfortune of having to support BES for a year. Moved off that shit as fast as possible, and won't EVER be going back.

Re:Oh Good

[Khyber]

Sounds like the both of you are incompetent and shouldn't be touching enterprise-level stuff in the first place.

Which will do what exactly against a screenshot

[h4rr4r]

So no copy paste, but screen shot is fine.

Also good luck dealing with rooted or jailbroken devices. Sure you can try to test for that, but since others have already tried there are now toolkits to break such testing.

Re:Which will do what exactly against a screenshot

[Anonymous Coward]

If someone is determined to steal a corporation's data, they'll be able to find a way to do it regardless. Blocking copy & paste is a good casual reminder to not take work data out of the BlackBerry app.

Re:Which will do what exactly against a screenshot

[VortexCortex]

If someone is determined to steal a corporation's data, they'll be able to find a way to do it regardless. Blocking copy & paste is a good casual reminder to not take work data out of the BlackBerry app.

Or... it's just a pointless inconvenience because, as you said, "If someone is determined to steal a corporation's data, they'll be able to find a way to do it regardless." Why would I need a casual reminder to not do something I'm not going to do, unless I'm going to do it, and am able to find a way?

Information will find a way.

Re:Which will do what exactly against a screenshot

[Anonymous Coward]

its a prohibition against accidental information leak, not against misuse that can result in you getting fired.

We're already using this

[Dr.Zong]

We're using this. BES5 server for the old devices. BES10 BDS (BlackBerry Device Server) for a couple Q10s and a couple Playbooks, then UDS (Universal Device Server) for a bunch of ipads. All three servers are managed by one interface, Mobile Fusion. For us, it's not about "hey, apple has this" or "hey android already has this" it's about "hey, I can manage these all from one console". Saves a tonne of time, and a tonne of hassle. I am not super happy that with BDS/UDS they moved to Active Sync, but our AS Server is behind a firewall and we have the UDS devices set to VPN in automatically to get to it. The BDS devices are "in the network" like the old BES stuff and don't need a VPN. Hell, I had a case open with BlackBerry as I needed RRAS and the UDS/BDS working on one server, long story short, it looks like a KB article will be made based on that support case.

What took so long?

[Anonymous Coward]

My company had exec getting iPads and needed the remote wipe that BES had for blackberry. BES didn't do it, so they found a different solution that'll work on all iOS and Android devices. They won't care to update BES and now it's easier to migrate away from BES when blackberry phones finally go out of business. I know as a user of a company bb phone, I can't wait for something that I can use gmail on again.

act fast because Micrsoft just overtook 3rd place

[Anonymous Coward]

there was just recently at least one study which showed Microsoft with worldwide market share "up" around 3.5% and that puts them above BlackBerry given the last years BlackBerry decline in market share.

"Riding iOS and Android To Power It's Comeback"

[Anubis IV]

I read that as "How Blackberry is struggling to stay relevant after people stopped using the devices on which their services are used".

I do think it's better for everyone when there are more viable choices and more competition in the market, but let's not kid ourselves that Blackberry putting an app on another platform or two is them riding those platforms in order to "power their comeback". At best, it's analogous to what Sega did during/after the Dreamcast, and while we might be able to say that Sega is a decent software company now (a topic that's worthy of a separate debate), no one would suggest that they can exercise as much control over their destiny as they could before, nor that they are doing as well as they were in their heyday.

And, honestly, I question whether or not Blackberry's services are strong enough to stand on their own any more. There have been a number of "good enough" alternatives that have popped up in the last few years, either from first-party or third-party developers on the competing platforms.

Re:"Riding iOS and Android To Power It's Comeback"

[Registered Coward v2]

I read that as "How Blackberry is struggling to stay relevant after people stopped using the devices on which their services are used"

I agree with you here - they are trying to remain relevant by become an ecosystem, not a device vendor. If they can build a strong enough enterprise solution that runs on a number of devices, besides their own, they can offer companies a total solution w/o locking them in to a specific brand of hardware; and offer a total package for companies that want one standard device. I doubt they can stay viable as a hardware unique solution simply because that mens tehy must innovate in hardware as well as software, and they've had a hard time doing that.

And, honestly, I question whether or not Blackberry's services are strong enough to stand on their own any more. There have been a number of "good enough" alternatives that have popped up in the last few years, either from first-party or third-party developers on the competing platforms.

The ultimate question is 'good enough" enough to overcome their advantages of scope and size in the enterprise market? Personally, I think they will rollout this new model, do reasonably well, and get bought either by MS or a big enterprise software company. I doubt Apple would buy them because it would mean redoing teh software to match Apple's POV and it would simply be easier to partner and build BES support and security services into their existing iOS.

Re:"Riding iOS and Android To Power It's Comeback"

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm wondering whether BlackBerry will come out with a high-security Android phone. The NSA ideally wants an Android device with 2 layers of encryption, the first layer is all of the flash on the device, the next is per-program sandboxing. There is plenty more additional security that could be added. Ideally, they might even license the features to other vendors.

"pending approval from Apple"

[Anonymous Coward]

should read 'pending rejection from apple' .. because parts of it compete with apple's own offerings.

welcome to the garden. the grass is pretty brown on this side of the fence.

Re:"pending approval from Apple"

[Anonymous Coward]

Welcome to pointless assumptions.

Why tablets failed before.

[sjbe]

People laughed at the Tablet PC concept ~10 years ago... I laughed at it too mainly due to the ~$3000 price tag back then.

They didn't laugh at the concept, they laughed at the (pathetic) implementation. Microsoft tried to overlay using a stylus on windows as a sort of keyboard/mouse hybrid which is NOT what a stylus is good for. A stylus is good for *drawing* and nothing else. We take notes with a pen and what we are doing is drawing. The fact that we can draw characters is just a bonus side effect. Microsoft fundamentally misunderstood how a pen/stylus works and what it is good for.

I would actually love a tablet with a stylus option with the condition that the stylus be used for drawing ONLY. Not navigation (like a mouse) or as mass text input device (like a keyboard) but as a drawing tool in the same way we use it with a pen and notebook. That would be terrifically useful. But so far every developer gets all excited about character recognition or mistakes it for a mouse and screws up the interface in the process. The reason tablets are working well today is because they finally designed systems adjusted the operating system interface to be designed for finger input from the ground up.

Re:Why tablets failed before.

[Raenex]

I would actually love a tablet with a stylus option with the condition that the stylus be used for drawing ONLY. Not navigation

My exerience with a recent Nook made me wish I had a stylus for something as simple as closing tabs on a web browser. The amount of failure involved using my fingers on that device was just completely frustrating. I really don't understand why people hate the stylus so much. I really liked using the stylus on the Nintendo DS, for example.

Re:Why tablets failed before.

[sjbe]

My exerience with a recent Nook made me wish I had a stylus for something as simple as closing tabs on a web browser. The amount of failure involved using my fingers on that device was just completely frustrating.

That sounds like a design flaw with the interface rather than an indication of the need for a stylus to do basic navigation. Frankly if you need a stylus for navigation, something is broken in the design. I have an iPhone and I can reliably push very small buttons with my fingers with good accuracy. (Not recommending it just observing that it is possible to have precise finger input)

I think the reason finger interfaces have worked well so far is that Apple and Google have made it intentionally difficult to use stylus and keyboards and mice which has forced the OS and application designers to spend some actual effort thinking about how best to design the application for finger input. Sometimes limiting options actually makes for a better product. The same thing need to happen with a stylus. If the OS limits it to drawing only (at least for a while) then it might start to be used for what it is actually good for software engineers will have to actually think about the interface instead of just treating it like a funny shaped mouse.

Re:Why tablets failed before.

[Raenex]

That sounds like a design flaw with the interface rather than an indication of the need for a stylus to do basic navigation.

Could be, or maybe my fingers don't work as well for precision pointing than others. Whatever it is, I really like the stylus for precision.

Sandboxed sandboxes

[Anonymous Coward]

How meta

Let's take a look at their backend in a year.

[ElitistWhiner]

iPhone/Android/Blackberry either commoditizes BES or leverage into a global backbone infrastructure for corporate types needing more than TELCO signal.

rm -fr /path

[ydrol]

when did rm -fr /path/to/corporate_data become so innovative ?

So much BB hate...

[DontBlameCanada]

... so little attention paid to facts.

If you're making uninformed decisions at work like you make uninformed comments on slashdot, ya better be ready for the unemployment line.

Re:So much BB hate...

[Anonymous Coward]

Umm... Who are you talking to? I normally avoid the guy by himself on the corner screaming at the air.

Re:So much BB hate...

[Xest]

It's because you have two types of people on Slashdot.

Those with actual experience in the real world who have encountered things like BES and seen first hand why there are still even with it's decreased marketshare, millions of people using Blackberries.

Then on the other hand, you have the students, the people who never really went anywhere in life, and the unemployed due to incompetence.

Guess which person makes which type of comment?

The problem is that over the years the number of students et. al. who think they know better because their prof. told them something, even though the real world works completely differently has drastically increased whilst the number of people with real world experience has decreased.

We're back, Baby

[Anonymous Coward]

We're back, baby, and we're kicking ass and taking names.

solutions

[geoskd]

In my experience, companies that do not have very good products spend an awful lot of time trying to sell "solutions". Looks a lot like whats happening here.

Why now?

[Sable Drakon]

Why the hell didn't RIM work on this shit 5 years ago when they started to see their sales plummel more and more with every quarter?

Re:Why now?

[jayveekay]

The first stage of grief is shock and denial. Sometimes that can take a while (years) to get through. Eventually you reach acceptance and recovery.

Re: Why now?

[Sable Drakon]

I somehow doubt that RIM is going to recover at this rate.

Bottom line guys - buy BBRY stock or short it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is BBRY stock going up or down from here?