Bloomberg To HS Grads: Be a Plumber

An anonymous reader writes "This being college graduation season, the insights provided by commencement speakers should be familiar by now: find work in a field you're passionate about, don't underestimate your own abilities, aim high, learn to communicate and collaborate with others, give something back to your community. Billionaire Mike Bloomberg, whose current job is Mayor of New York City, evidently decided to break the mold by advising less academically adept youngsters to consider a career in plumbing. High wages, constant demand, no offshore competition. 'Compare a plumber to going to Harvard College — being a plumber, actually for the average person, probably would be a better deal'. Ouch! And hey, like a lawyer, a plumber can always dabble in politics."

Comments

Also

[JustOK]

Plumbers don't have to put up with as much shit as most IT workers

Re:Also

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd suggest being an electrician over a plumber. No matter where technology goes, we're going to need electricity. And with electric cars booming, someone's going to have to build that electric infrastructure.

Re:Also

[interval1066]

Try being a politician, it seems to have worked for Bloomberg. Funny he didn't offer it as an alternative.

Re:Also

[JWSmythe]

    Ummm.. I worked with a plumbing company for a while.. There was a whole lot of shit, literally. I was lucky, I just did their IT work. I could talk to the techs who had done messier jobs from a distance. If their blue uniform is now brown, don't get too close. :)

    It was entertaining, and absolutely disgusting, watching them clean out of of the tank trucks. It registered something like 10k pounds overweight, because of the sewage sludge that had built up in the bottom of the tank. At least the guy who went in to clean it got to wear a biohazard suit and respirator.

    I only had to deal with the trucks while I was wiring up their GPS tracking. It was the first chance I had to drive a 10 speed truck. (private property, CDL be damned). The drivers were gone for the day, and the other staff present were afraid to try to drive it up to the shop. The work/cargo vans were harder to drive. Their blind spot is anything but in front of them.

Re:Also

[dcollins]

The primary thing that worked for Bloomberg is making billions of dollars on Wall Street. (For example, he was laid off from his first job at Solomon Brothers with a $10 million severance package for starters.) With that money he's been able to bend and break a lot of the rules about becoming and staying NYC mayor -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg

Re:Also

[Mashiki]

I'd suggest being an electrician over a plumber.

Being realistic? There's a glut of electricians right now--though there is a massive shortage of lineworkers(guys who work on utilities, can be much more dangerous but pay is better), lot of people started picking up that trade during the housing boom and are still out of work. I've heard anywhere between 10% and 55% depending where you live(either in Canada or the US and particular states/provinces) are unemployed. I'd suggest looking at what trades need the most hands, and consider it. Metal workers, CNC operators, mechanic(did this myself off and on for a decade), pipefitters and so on. The real problem is that kids aren't given the suggestion to look at trades these days, they got the same spiel that we were getting in the 80's and 90's, that going into technology is the way to go. But everyone needs someone to lay and fit pipe, fix their car, and so on.

Re:Also

[DaveV1.0]

Speaking as someone who has a Class A CDL and has driven everything from a motorcycle to a semi, including cargo vans and step vans, if a van has a blind spot that "is anything but in front of them" then you haven't adjusted the mirrors correctly.

Re:Also

[Rod Beauvex]

He should offer a big time reward. $2000 in gold coins, if he's got a serious plumbing problem.

Re:Also

[NIK282000]

As an electrician I would highly suggest becoming a plumber. No matter what the real problem with any building or equipment the first guy called is an electrician and no amount of argument will ever convince the client that water in the breaker panel is NOT the electrician's fault or that the only way to stop the breaker from tripping is to unplug one of the 12 computers on one circuit.

Not actually a bad idea.

[GlennC]

As much as we need competent programmers, DBAs, network administrators, etc., we also need plumbers, carpenters and electricians. Not everyone has the talent or desire for college, and I think we as a society ought to recognize that. Of course, that means less income for colleges and bankers providing student loans, so I'm not surprised that this is being billed as a radical idea.

Re:Not actually a bad idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

Not everyone has the talent or desire for college

This right here is what needs to stop: just because you're a plumber, or a carpenter, or an electrician, doesn't mean you're dumb. Likewise, going to college doesn't mean you're smart.

People need to stop looking down on blue collar jobs, and stop treating "going to college" as the highest honor they can bestow upon on themselves. There are way, way, way too many people going to college and doing pointless and ultimately useless degrees. Hell, there are way too many people going to college and doing things like CS degrees who couldn't code their way out of a paper bag.

We need to get back to the idea that learning blue collar work is just as socially acceptable as white collar. We need to get away from the idea that you must go to college and get a degree or you're a "failure". We should bring back real apprenticeships; for blue and white collar workers.

Re:Not actually a bad idea.

[gstovall]

:) With only a few exceptions, the best software designers I've worked have degrees in engineering, physics, or mathematics. It drives the people with C.S. degrees nuts. :)

Re:Not actually a bad idea.

[bonehead]

Heh... I spent 3 1/2 years at a 2 year business school studying programming. Yeah, I partied a bit more than I probably should have. Never did bother to finish up those last 3 classes and get my degree, since I found a good job, which was the goal I had in mind in the first place.

Since then I've had a mostly successful career in IT. I say "mostly" because things got pretty rough these past few years during the recession, but I'm back on track now and making more than I ever have. During my career, I haven't used *one single thing* that I learned in college. Everything I've done that I actually got paid for has been self-taught. In fact, in my current role as a Linux sysadmin for a very large ISP, I spend all day working with things that didn't even exist until I had been out of college for a good 7 years. Even the coding I do, and I do plenty, doesn't benefit much from my programming classes. Aside from bash scripts, everything I write is OO, and that was only just starting to be talked about when I was in school. C++ didn't start getting taken seriously until several years after I was done.

Never, not even once, in over 25 years, has my lack of a college degree even been mentioned in a job interview.

College is valuable (potentially) in only 3 ways:
    1.) To get your foot in the door for that first job. IMHO, getting that first job without a degree may be a lot of work, but far less work (and far cheaper) than a degree.
    2.) To prove to people of a certain mindset that you "can play the game". It's proof that you can jump through hoops, even when they're ridiculous.
    3.) The social aspect. This is the most valuable part. You have 4 years to start building your "network".

It has nothing to do with showing that you can do a job, because college does NOT prepare you to do "real world" work. For the most part, it doesn't even teach you useful skills. Maybe a few "general concepts" that you can apply, but that's about it.

Re:Not actually a bad idea.

[hazem]

College is valuable (potentially) in only 3 ways

There's a 4th... that you actually do learn useful skills. I've taken classes in computer modeling & simulation, operations research, data mining, and machine learning. I use quite a bit of this all the time at work and I find it's been helpful to have been given a solid foundation in the subjects - this makes it much easier to explore and learn more on my own.

But, I've been taking these classes for fun and out of interest - I already have a masters degree, so the possibility of an additional degree doesn't help me much.

Re:Not actually a bad idea.

[gutnor]

College is not trade school. You learn theory, not practice. And theory stay useful for a very very long time. And when it starts getting useless, it is because there is a new theory, but generally the new theory build on top of the old one, so you get a significant headstart.

When you start working, you start learning skills and little time building in-depth knowledge. Understanding the theory being the skills can help keeping up with technology better or adapt better.

Now, that does not mean I do not agree with you. It is difficult to find a benefit that would offset 4 years of experience and 75K in debt in the IT sector. That said, the deal is not the same everywhere in the world. In Europe, you can get college for free or something like $500 a year.

Skils || Trades == Jobs

[DeionXxX]

People with skills and trades will almost always find work even in shitty economies. If you know how to make something, build something, or fix something that everyone uses, then someone is probably going to pay you to do that.

My advice to kids, whether family or kids I mentor, is to finish school with a skill. Doesn't matter if it's programming or plumbing.

Re:Skils || Trades == Jobs

[KernelMuncher]

A friend of the family was somewhat distraught when her son skipped college after HS and took a welding job. He was living the redneck life with a big pickup, wore a hardhat to work every day, etc. The years go by and this man goes from being an apprentice to a master welder. Then he decided to form his own welding crew with some coworkers from jobs he'd had from various jobs. Now the guy who everybody said was taking the wrong path owns his own business and makes absolutely gobs of $$. True story.

Know what you want to do, and plan accordingly

[Nidi62]

If you love working on cars and want to be a mechanic, you don't go to college for engineering, you go to trade school and get certified. If you want to work on planes, you go get your A&P, you don't get a degree in aeronautical engineering. We need people to fix our cars, unclog our pipes, weld stuff, etc. These jobs aren't glamorous, but they are stable, pay much better than you think, and can be obtained by attending a much cheaper trade school than going to a university. I currently work part-time doing unskilled labor, and one guy I work with, after only being there 7 years, makes over 70k a year working no more overtime than many salaried employees. When he tops out in 3 more years he will probably be making close to, if not more than $100k. And this is in a job that requires no more than a high school diploma.

Nothing wrong with the Trades

[dakohli]

There is nothing wrong with becoming a Tradesman. Plumber, Electrician, Welder or Mechanic, etc

Just as we need Engineers, Nurses and Lawyers (I can't believe I'm including Lawyers!), we need the folks that keep our machines running. Just as not everyone has the money, or the aptitude to become a Doctor, I know many people who do not have the abilities to become a carpenter or metal worker.

I don't much care for the way some look down on the tradesmen that keep things running. Where I live there is a shortage of plumbers and electricians. Out west there is a shortage of carpenters. As a resul the ones that do exist command high wages, and are busy with lots of work. All this without the debilitating school loans that many University Graduates have.

From my perspective, it sounds like good advice

Re:He's right

[CRCulver]

In European countries where people go to school until the age of 19 or 20, and where trade school pupils have their own track, a university degree programme still lasts five or six years (because an M.A. is considered the basic degree, not a B.A. like in the US). So, longer high school wouldn't necessary lead to shorter university studies.

Re:Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Which highlights another good reason to be a plumber. Everyone understands why the job is necessary but nobody wants to do it. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of IT.

Marine Engineering Degree != Marine Engineer

[Irate Engineer]

I teach engineering at a maritime academy and it dazzles me that so many students pay through the nose and suffer through 4+ years of regimented academics for a license that they could get by just sailing as a paid vessel assistant for a few years after high school and taking a Coast Guard examination. This is a practice called hawsepiping and used to be the norm for the profession. Marine engineers are really (for the most part) mechanics, and much simpler vocational school would be more than adequate for these jobs.

Admittedly the students also get a "marine engineering degree" over and above the training for the license that is transferrable to a lot of shore-side professions, but most of that is lost on the students. All they care about is getting the license and many whine and cry about having to read, write, do math, and take engineering coursework. I do think that degree is worth what they pay, but it really a form of insurance so they can remain employed after they come ashore, and getting 20 year old boys who aspire to be sailors to think about what they are going to do later in life (hell, later in the *day*) is hard.

Is the end goal of life a high salary?

[tlambert]

Is the end goal of life a high salary?

I understand his advice, if followed, and if you work your way, either through trade school or apprenticeship, to journeyman, and then to master, you can expect a $80K+ a year income.

Is this the end-all, be-all of human existence?

A high salary is not why I went into the sciences - I went in with a passion for knowledge and knowing how things work, and why, and how to build things that, because they were barely within the boundaries of the rules, did amazing and astonishing things. A high salary resulted because I was successful at pursuing this passion.

I would instead advise people to try to find three things for which they feel passion, and are good at, and then find someone willing to pay you to do one of them.

If you can only find one thing for which you have passion, if you can still find someone to pay you to do it, then you are ahead of the game, compared to what Bloomberg suggest, if it happens that none of your objects of passion include plumbing.

There are plenty of people who look at the top end paychecks available in a profession, and choose a profession on that basis. Those who do will never reach the top end of that pay range if they do not posses a passion for the profession; they will always be middle tier, and they will watch the clock until it is time to check out from their job, and "get back to their 'real' life". This is where a lot of unemployed IT "professionals" come from.

For those clock watching 8 hours of their day, they will be miserable, working at something for which they have no passion, having intentionally turned their soul off for those eight hours in exchange for money. They will sell half their waking life into misery to benefit the other half of their waking life. And at the end of the day in their "real life", they will find they can not take joy in their "real life", as they anticipate, after sleeping, returning to their job for the next 8 soulless hours of work.

Do something you love, and for which you have passion; reclaim your soul for those lost 8 hours of your life.

Art and Science

[Gim Tom]

Even 40+ years ago, when I got my BS in engineering, any sort of hands on experience was disappearing from the requirements. Even the lab instructors often didn't know how to use some of the instruments (Oscilloscopes, signal generators, etc.) or how to troubleshoot a circuit that wasn't doing what the design said it should.

Engineering is really a combination of Art and Science and no one can learn to be an Artist from a book. Technology needs both and both are required to keep the modern world working. I am in awe and have utmost respect for a skilled craftsman/artisan and our world needs more of them.

I am a third generation engineer, and many decades ago my Father often told me that I should be a plumber or an auto mechanic and there were many times during my working career that I realized just how right he probably was.

for once I agree with nanny bloomberg

[night_flyer]

there has been too much of an emphasis in the last 10-20 years for EVERYONE to go to college, whether they were really qualified or not, that the technical trades have been neglected.

You might think your plumber makes big bucks

[SmallFurryCreature]

This argument starts up every time somebody had to pay their plumber 80 bucks an hour to fix the toilet, their fility stinking filled with shit toilet. They then think the plumber doing a job they never ever want to do themselves, is rolling in it and the IT being their shit but piles of money.

As if that 80 bucks is pure profit. Meanwhile the daddy plumber knows just how much of that costs goes to cover unpaid hours, taxes, insurance, tool costs etc etc. And he also knows how much Mr Doctor and Mr Lawyer charged him for his children's delivery and to deal with that frivolous lawsuit.

So... what is he going to want for his kids? The same as himself in a world where just getting by is the same as being a loser OR to aim for the top?

And don't for a second think that Bloomberg is interested in the fortunes of the public. He just wants more plumbers so he can pay less, same reason his kind wants immigrants to bust unions and high wages. Sure kids, all become plumbers and wave bye bye to 80 bucks as the competition sky rockets. And then you look longingly at IT graduates making high wages because nobody learned how to code anymore.

Simple piece of advice for live: NEVER listen to a billionaire, they didn't get rich by looking out for other peoples interest.

Re:You might think your plumber makes big bucks

[nEoN nOoDlE]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Bloomberg wants everyone to become a plumber so he could lower his plumbing costs. That's the ticket.

My brother used to work for Bloomberg the financial company as a programmer and he was getting paid a shitload of money for it right out of school. If Bloomberg was speaking purely in his own self interest, he would be telling everybody to be a programmer so he could lower those costs.

Being a plumber is more secure than anything in IT. It's not a job that can be outsourced and it requires some training, so not anybody can do it right off the bat.

Re:You might think your plumber makes big bucks

[SerpentMage]

Did you read his comments? He was not saying that everybody becomes a plumber, but that those who are not as academically adept should. I think he is right. If you don't have the grades and you seek a higher education job then most likely you will get a crap job with a big loan, with bs money. However, you could become an awesome plumber and that work cannot be outsourced. It is not a bad idea IMO! The trades are rated too low in America. Guess where trade skills are rately highely? Oh yeah GERMANY! Guess which economy is doing really well? Oh yeah GERMANY...

Reminds me of an old joke

[MLBs]

A plumber goes to a doctor's house to fix a leak.
He works for 15 minutes and then asks the doctor for $200
The doctor says "I don't even make close to that!!"
The plumber replies: "When I was a doctor, I didn't either"

What has become of /...

[Opportunist]

Over 100 posts and not a single Super Mario reference...

Bloomberg is simply being honest.

[I_am_Jack]

Being a plumber is the only reliable way of getting the benefits of trickle down from a plutocrat.

The trouble with being a plumber

[Animats]

The trouble with being a plumber is that most of the work is in building and remodeling. With housing construction way down, most of the people in the building trades are hurting. It's great during a building boom, though.

A related trade is HVAC - heating, ventilating, and air conditioning. There's more electronics and control involved than in plumbing.

Re:Really?

[kermidge]

For a time years ago I made my living by pumping out septic tanks and cleaning sewers. This is a distinct field from plumbing, but we (a partnership of five) often as not had to do the whole trip from a clogged sink or toilet to unblocking a drain field.

Done well and honestly it's an honorable if shitty profession. I say profession in the sense that to do it well required gaining a fair amount of knowledge of various physical and biological processes or gotchas as well as all the relevant ordinances and laws. We also had to carry a number of bonds, and some of the permits entailed inspections and certifications.

Re:Really?

[Pecisk]

"Which highlights another good reason to be a plumber. Everyone understands why the job is necessary but nobody wants to do it. Which is pretty much the exact opposite of IT."

Not exactly true. I am about to finish my very late (in age of 33) BSc in CS. Guess how many students (in percentage) choose to learn high level sysadmining or hardware engineering? Yeah, maybe 10% to each (or even less). Sysadmins sometimes have it worst than plumbers. In result, there are very few of them. Hardware engineering is fun, but also much harder than software engineering.