Slashdot Mirror


Narrowing Down When Humans Began Hurling Spears

sciencehabit writes "Archaeologists have long debated when early humans began hurling stone-tipped spears and darts at large prey. By throwing a spear, instead of thrusting it, humans could hunt buffalo and other dangerous game from a safe distance, with less risk of a goring or mauling. But direct evidence of this hunting technique in early sites has been lacking. A new study of impact marks on the bones of ancient prey shows that such sophisticated killing techniques go back at least 90,000 years ago in Africa and offers a new method of determining how prehistoric hunters made their kills."

40 of 208 comments (clear)

  1. Just Look For... by sycodon · · Score: 3, Funny

    ...rocks with rules scratched into them regarding Spear Control.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Just Look For... by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      But the National Spear Association lobbied against controls. Even cave babies were allowed to own spears.

    2. Re:Just Look For... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Funny

      That's because they wanted people to keep their spear disassembled when not in use. So when a Sabertoothed Tiger came into your cave, you would have had to ask it to wait while you tied the pointy rock to the end. And before you start, short pointy sticks are only good against other cavemen.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    3. Re:Just Look For... by dantotheman · · Score: 3, Funny

      Regulation turned into a big mess when people figured out how to 3d print them using only trees.

  2. Brains are a funny thing by koan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'll bet if we could travel back in time and watch these creatures innovate we would have far more respect for their ingenuity in their time.
    I'll bet they came up with solutions we wouldn't think of that were lost to time.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:Brains are a funny thing by sycodon · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Romain Empire used concrete extensively, even hydraulic cement (cures under water).

      After the Empire fell, they went back to building with rocks.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:Brains are a funny thing by MozeeToby · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suspect it would be more accurate to say that innovation was extremely inconsistent pre-history. I haven't any doubt that many, many things were invented dozens or hundreds of times, only to be lost when the guy died, or his son decided not to carry on the tradition, or some disaster fell that made them abandon specialization. Once you start writing stuff down, in a way that can be shared with others and understood generations later, you don't have everyone starting from scratch every time something goes wrong any more. You start to build the hill that becomes the mound that becomes the mountain that is our present knowledge of the world.

    3. Re:Brains are a funny thing by punman · · Score: 5, Funny

      The Romain Empire used concrete extensively, even hydraulic cement (cures under water).

      After the Empire fell, they went back to building with rocks.

      Lettuce hear more of this Romaine empire ...

    4. Re:Brains are a funny thing by Antipater · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The Incas created structures that are nigh-earthquakeproof, using nothing but rocks (no mortar, cement, or other binding agents). Their cutting and grinding was so precise that when the joints were assembled, a blade of grass could not be inserted at any point.

      Never underestimate the power of rocks.

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    5. Re:Brains are a funny thing by ImprovOmega · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Honestly that has a lot less to do with religion than people being dicks to each other. Your math hating mullah for example was just a dick protecting his own power from the perceived threat of tech wrenching it from him. Short sighted and stupid? Yes. The fault of religion? No.

      The problem was that information used to be exceedingly difficult to pass on. If something didn't have immediate practical use it was discarded. The steam toys of the Greeks were chucked when their leisurely (relatively speaking) lifestyle couldn't be sustained anymore. Ever since the invention of the printing press though you have an explosion in cheap mass-producible information. This has only gotten cheaper in the digital computing world of the information age. Now we only have to discover something once and it's locked down forever. How many cavemen had to discover spears independently before it became widespread? Fire? Bronze? Ironworking? The archway? Heck, even calculus was discovered twice and that was fairly recently!

      Nowadays a researcher in Russia can publish his work and everyone in that field can know about it in seconds. Processes and discoveries are passed on in exacting detail. We should never again have to endure another dark ages with our current information sharing abilities.

    6. Re:Brains are a funny thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      The Romain Empire

      So that's why it's called caesar salad

    7. Re:Brains are a funny thing by Synerg1y · · Score: 2

      In retrospect, how many of us can still actually throw a spear to a level where it can hit anything? :P

    8. Re:Brains are a funny thing by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'd speculate that humans used pikes as soon as they found 'em and threw 'em if it suited the situation.. it's not exactly rocket science.

      A pike is 20 feet long (6 meters for you SI types), and not something that can be thrown effectively by anyone shorter than about 15 feet (4.5 meters).

      Even knowing it can be done, actually getting a spear to fly point first is a non-trivial accomplishment.

      Doing it for the first time ever? It may not be rocket science, but it's pretty damn close.

      In other words, just because an idea is old to YOU doesn't mean it was easy for that first guy who ever had it...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    9. Re:Brains are a funny thing by riverat1 · · Score: 2

      it's not exactly rocket science.

      Well actually there are some elements of rocket science in spear throwing. It's just that the method of propelling them has changed.

    10. Re:Brains are a funny thing by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      A pike is not a spear.

      A spear is either a short "lance" ment for fighting "as with a lance" or a throwing weapon, more commonly named javeline in english. (Lance originally ment throwing weapon, too. Later it became used for the long pole arm weapon used by riding forces aka "knights", but this is still not a pike)

      A pike is a weapon used in formations where big groups fight each other and especially against cavalry attacks.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    11. Re:Brains are a funny thing by sycodon · · Score: 2

      Everyone knows that the Aliens built those.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    12. Re:Brains are a funny thing by mattack2 · · Score: 2

      Ide March very far to get Caesar.

  3. And also, by M0j0_j0j0 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Archaeologists also found evidence that the main damage was on creatures skulls , which led them to the conclusion: Aimbot!!!

  4. The Thagomizer by wcrowe · · Score: 2

    I am reminded of the Thagomizer.

    As dangerous as hunting large prey was, I imagine it did not take long to go from attaching a sharp rock to the end of a long stick, to throwing the long stick. When facing "the Thagomizer" the mental leap probably occurred in about a minute :-)

    --
    Proverbs 21:19
    1. Re:The Thagomizer by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Throwing a spear takes some practice to be at all effective with it, especially at any sort of range when facing something that could either escape and make you starve, or kill you so you'd never have to worry about starving again. It's not like a rock where you can get reasonable aim with a few practice throws, especially a spear large enough to take down big game using a stone or flint tip.

    2. Re:The Thagomizer by SJHillman · · Score: 2

      Oh, and there's also the fact that once you throw the spear, you're unarmed if you miss and the thing charges.

  5. Re:Mis-read the point of "Narrowing" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We don't have an engrained preference for the skinny. The "preference for the skinny" is actually only an extremely recent cultural phenomenon.

  6. Damascus steel was lost for centuries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is said it could cleanly cut through a falling silk scarf.

    I thought at first that the manufacturing process was lost because it was kept a trade secret. However, this paper finds that the superior properties of the steel come from impurities that were present in the original iron mine. When iron from a different mine used used, the steelsmiths were unable to reproduce the original's properties. Within a generation, production was entirely abandoned.

    1. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by alen · · Score: 2

      yeah, but did it shine like Valyrian steel?

    2. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The history of ironworking in general is a total mess: Not only were the best techniques(at any given time and place) some combination of trade secrets and National Security Stuff, leading to dubious recordkeeping, iron and most iron alloys corrode enthusiastically, often leaving archeologists to stare at an intriguing-looking rust stain and puzzle from there.

      Then(as in the case of Damascus steel, as you mention) the properties of iron(actually a pretty lousy material, pure) change quite dramatically with the addition of relatively small amounts of various alloying agents, frequently ones that weren't even identified as distinct substances(much less 'identified' as 'elements') until centuries later, in addition to being sensitive to heating/cooling parameters and any other treatments affecting crystal structure.

      There were improvements over time, of course; but until fairly recently, with modern metallurgy and chemistry, even a good-faith effort by the original craftsman to share his technique would likely leave us with considerable puzzling left to do.

    3. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by pwizard2 · · Score: 2

      Having a sword so sharp that it could cut through a falling scarf seems rather impractical because it would be impossible to maintain that sharp edge for long under regular use (no matter how good the steel is).

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    4. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by pwizard2 · · Score: 2

      Steel has its limits. If the edge is too thin to handle the forces it gets subjected to, it buckles, chips, and curls instead of simply blunting. If the edge hits a shield or your enemy's armor, it is automatically ruined. It would take a highly-skilled smith to fix that kind of damage and even then the blade wouldn't be as good as it was before because of metal fatigue. This is why you never go edge-to-edge with a sword!

      Super-sharp edges are for precision work. If you're using a hack-and-slash weapon, you want a thick bevel because it will still tear through your enemy with minimal damage to itself if you put enough force behind it. Adding a serrated edge would probably be even more effective against soft targets because it tears out chunks and causes more trauma. Grinding a new edge would be trivial as the teeth wear down.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    5. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      I thought that the kinds of steel that are difficult to blunt (= take longer to get dull) are also difficult to sharpen. As in, I have a kitchen knife that is fairly easy to shapen into a very keen edge, but it also gets dull fairly quickly and needs to be sharpened quite frequently.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      It's not important how easy it is to get sharp, all that matters is you get it as sharp as it will go and use it. If you have to spend two hours sharpening a sword that is good for ten whacks in battle, that's better than a sword you spend half an hour sharpening that stays sharp for three whacks.

    7. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by dryeo · · Score: 2

      For falling you want a sharp axe as you want to cut through the fibers. For splitting you want a dull axe as you're wedging the fibers apart and a sharp axe will get stuck much easier then a dull axe. By dull I mean the edge rounded, not square.
      The last Arvika I bought. I was really pissed off that someone had given it a razor edge, much worse for splitting, which is what I purchased it for. If I wanted to use it for throwing, cutting down hardwoods or building a log home then it would have been up to me to put my preferred edge on it. Makes a difference what the angle of the V is as well.
      Some pictures of an Arvika being sharpened, http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1026125-Arvika-grind

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    8. Re:Damascus steel was lost for centuries by dido · · Score: 2

      Perhaps they are one and the same thing. George R. R. Martin's descriptions of Valyrian steel in the books are very much like real-life Damascus steel, featuring the same distinctive rippled patterns that Damascus steel is famous for.

      --
      Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
  7. Re:Mis-read the point of "Narrowing" by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 4, Informative

    Maybe though, it's why we have an engrained preference for the skinny!

    I doubt you mean skinny like the sacks of antlers they call super models, on the other end there are cultures that think people who have a body shape like a beach ball are ideal. There have been several studies I have seen that in general indicate that a more curvy body shape for women is preferred by men. There is something to be said about having some fat and still looking healthy that was probably selected for in prehistoric times since that would be a good indication that you could provide for your self and were of good health.

    --
    Time to offend someone
  8. Any EULAs/royalties/licensing spears? by k6mfw · · Score: 3, Funny

    Og comes up with a superior spear, shares it with rest of tribe ("its open source") but gets taken to court for because he was not licensed. Og documents his experience (drawings in a cave) but someone yells copyright infringement and drawings are erased.

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  9. Re:I don't think man ever hunted spears. by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

    Leave Britney ALONE!!!!

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  10. Re:Good Luck With That by theguyfromsaturn · · Score: 2

    I don't think that anthropology deals much with fossils anyways. I don't know how long it takes for remains to fossilize, but I'd be willing to bet that it takes more than the few hundred millenia associated with ancient human studies. Anthropology deals more with actual bones than fossils, though even then, wood is probably usually one of the first casualties of time.

    --
    I like my dinosaurs feathery, and my pterosaurs hairy (or is it pycnofibery?)
  11. Any real evidence for the flip side? by JustNiz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is there any evidence that there was any delay at all?

    Seems to me once you have the intelligence to make and use a spear, it ill only be days at most before you're gonna try throwing it, at least partly because throwing whatever you have in your hand is what you would automatically do if you've got some pissed-off large animal (such as one thats just been prodded with a pointy stick) chasing you.

    1. Re:Any real evidence for the flip side? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      it ill only be days at most before you're gonna try throwing it, at least partly because throwing whatever you have in your hand is what you would automatically do if you've got some pissed-off large animal (such as one thats just been prodded with a pointy stick) chasing you.

      What you're describing is the guys who didn't pass along their genes to the next generation.

      Throwing a spear leaves you unarmed. Throwing it at something charging you leaves you CLOSER to the thing charging you, and unarmed.

      Not ideal choices if you want to pass your genes on to the next generation.

      Note, by the by, that you won't be hunting large mammals alone with your little spear. You'll have a bunch of friends (well, better hope they're your friends) helping. When mammoth gets annoyed at you and charges, your friends will be poking it to distract it. As you will be after it turns on them (assuming, of course, that you weren't dumb enough to throw away your spear).

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:Any real evidence for the flip side? by tsotha · · Score: 2

      But the moment you throw that heavy spear you're going to realize there's no point. A throwing spear is quite a bit different in construction - you have to make it with throwing in mind.

  12. Basic rule for discussing the Stone Age by dkleinsc · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Early humans were not significantly stupider than us modern humans. They were pretty creative in how they solved their problems, and it was their quick thinking that got humanity to the point where we had enough free time to figure out later innovations like bronze, plaster, and agriculture.

    A great example of this: They figured out the basic concept of cooking. Apes don't do that, and it allowed humans to eat things that other animals couldn't eat, and meant that humans were far less likely to get sick from what they ate. And while it seems like an obvious thing now, it wasn't at all obvious 125,000 years ago: You first had to get the idea of controlling and later building fires, then the idea of trying to use that fire to make plants you couldn't eat into plants you could eat (perhaps combining them with water), and the idea of heating meat over the fire, and observing that if you cooked your food before eating it you were less likely to get sick.

    --
    I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
  13. Re:That's a perpetuated myth by cusco · · Score: 2

    No, to carve rock they used rock, metal tools were used for wood, ceramic, and other softer materials. The Inca did not use mortar, they didn't have the appropriate resources (there was almost no limestone in the entire Empire). The Maya used cement in some of their construction, as did the Aztecs. While the Inca stone cutting technique itself isn't complex (essentially beat a hard rock against a softer rock, repeat) the fitting technology was amazing. Go look at the larger rocks at Sacsayhuman, the largest single stones ever used in human construction. There is one on the lowest level that is on an outside corner which borders around a dozen stones, and you can't fit a knife blade between any of them (I checked). Downtown Cusco, the church of Santo Domingo has been destroyed several times by the earthquakes that shake the city up every couple of decades, while dust just rises out of the joints in the Inca temple of Qorikancha that it's built on, and the stones settle back into place. Puma Punko, a minor site, used a different quality of stonework, and probably a different builder since its foundation was not as good.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin