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Do Developers Need Free Perks To Thrive?

jammag writes "Free sodas, candy and energy bars can be surprisingly important to developers, says longtime coder Eric Spiegel. They need the perks, not to mention the caffeine boost. More important, free sodas from management are like the canary in the coal mine. If they get cut, then layoffs might be next. 'The sodas are just the wake-up call. If the culture changes to be focused more on cost-cutting than on innovation and creativity, then would you still want to work here? I wouldn't.' Are free perks really that important?"

79 of 524 comments (clear)

  1. rather have money by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'd rather have a larger paycheck.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:rather have money by royallthefourth · · Score: 5, Funny

      While you're at it, ditch this "high deductible" scam and get some real health insurance

    2. Re:rather have money by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Cutting the sodas isn't going to make much difference to your paycheck.

      It has a fair chance of lowering morale though.

    3. Re:rather have money by JDG1980 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd rather have a larger paycheck.

      But in practice, a company that refuses to provide perks to developers is likely to pay them less, not more. Theoretically it could happen differently, but that's not the way to bet.

    4. Re:rather have money by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      When I'm here at 8 o'clock at night -- I would much prefer free soda (or a pizza) to an extra $100 in my bank account.

      With $100, I'm pretty sure you could order a pizza and lots of soda sent to your office, give a generous tip to the delivery guy, and still have quite a few bucks left in your bank account.

    5. Re:rather have money by OverlordQ · · Score: 2

      It's not a scam, it depends on your own personal needs. Since I go to the doctor rarely, my premiums are next to nothing, and contributing to my HSA comes out of pre-tax money which lowers my taxable income. In my case, it'd be stupid not to.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    6. Re:rather have money by BetterSense · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's the good thing about "money"...it solves the coincidence-of-wants problem, which is why people prefer to be paid in money instead of perks. However, with the government standing in the middle between your and your employer, you will never get a larger paycheck equal to the perks. Giving you the perks is more tax-efficient than paying you enough to buy the perks yourself.

      Spending $30/(month*employee) on candy bars can simply be written off as an expense. If the company wanted to pay the employees enough to buy their own candy bars, they would actually have to pay all their people $50/(mo*employee) or so that they have $30 left after income tax. And you won't get a group rate on candy.

      All things being equal, perks are a better value. Hope you like going to the gym that your employer uses for its gym membership program, hope you enjoy the coffee they buy, the healthcare plan that they offer, and the groceries at the company store (not quite, but we are getting there).

    7. Re:rather have money by Hadlock · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you figure out who at your office does the perks purchasing, a birthday card and a phone call can go a long ways towards upgrading you from folgers to starbucks coffee grinds and generic to fanta brand orange soda, etc.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    8. Re:rather have money by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just wait until you actually get sick. Then it will seem far less of a great deal.

      These plans are a scam, they are attempting to move the cost of healthcare onto the worker while still claiming to provide coverage. I would rather get no coverage and a raise so I can buy my own. Mind you that raise would need to be $1000+/month.

    9. Re:rather have money by Drethon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Near ten years as a software developer with no major medical bills (crossing fingers it continues). Don't remember the exact amount it saves me each paycheck but I think by this point I've covered the high deductible. All depends on where you are willing to gamble...

    10. Re:rather have money by egcagrac0 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is great, if you're a single male.

      Women and babies get to be expensive, I hear.

    11. Re:rather have money by BasilBrush · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not everything is about Math. Employees will feel more rewarded by a company supplied meal than they would with the equivalent (or substantially more) cash. Especially if the boss has stayed and joins in the meal too.

      Equally, pick the wrong perk and do it in the wrong way and it'll be a demotivation. I was once given an envelope of vouchers with the entire office gathered around as if I was employee of the month. Ack. I left that place soon after.

    12. Re:rather have money by istartedi · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most perks wouldn't make a huge impact on your pay. Take the coffee, soda and snack budget. Spread it out over all the employees and you get... what? Not very much. Now without the coffe, etc. right there in the office, what do you do? Go to the same boring shop on the first floor of the building every day? Get in your car and drive or (if you're lucky) walk someplace and buy snacks at retail prices. You're right back to square one. You saved nothing. The company lost. You lost. Everybody lost. Penny-wise and pound foolish.

      --
      For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    13. Re:rather have money by Spudley · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just wait until you actually get sick. Then it will seem far less of a great deal.

      These plans are a scam, they are attempting to move the cost of healthcare onto the worker while still claiming to provide coverage. I would rather get no coverage and a raise so I can buy my own. Mind you that raise would need to be $1000+/month.

      Reading the above, I am *so* glad I live in a country with free healthcare for all.

      Sure, it's paid for by my taxes, and sure maybe that means my taxes are a bit higher than yours, but:

      1. If I lose my job and have no income, I'll still be covered.
      2. If I get sick and need expensive medical assistance, I won't be hit with higher premiums or be uninsurable for any conditions.
      3. If I'm in an accident and can't help myself my family won't need to dig through my files to find my insurance papers or pay up-front for anything.
      4. If I feel unwell, I can make a judgement about seeing a doctor based on how I feel, not on whether I can afford it.

      I honestly can't see how anyone who can make a sane argument against that.

      Yep, there are issues -- some people do abuse the system -- but I'd rather have that than the alternatives any day of the week.

      --
      (Spudley Strikes Again!)
    14. Re:rather have money by SleazyRidr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For the price of free soda your paycheque may go up but a dollar a week. Once you take into account the overheads it's a lot more cost effective to just give someone soda. (Please no-one interperet that as big-government making it too expensive to employ people.)

      Also, money is nice, but I place a high value on a nice place to work. I spend over half my waking hours at work, getting a soda and a cookie isn't much but it makes me feel a lot better about coming.

    15. Re:rather have money by ttucker · · Score: 4, Informative

      A single illness can change that, or a single broken limb. Granted it depends on how high the deductible is and what your total out of pocket is. Never forget that many of these plans only pay 80% even after the deductible is reached until you have spent a good bit of change.

      This is absolutely untrue, when you buy an HSA policy the deductible, co-insurance %, and out of pocket maximum (deductible + co-insurance) are clearly defined. My out of pocket maximum, for example, is $7,500, which is fairly standard for HSA insurance. Sure, I do not want to have to pay this, but the reality is that this will not ruin anyone financially. The only real difference is that I have to pay to go to the doctor instead of having a copay, but the reality is that a doctor visit only costs me about $75 dollars (instead of $45 copay before HSA insurance). Also note that with insurance having a copay, you continue paying it after you reach the deductible. (Ouch if you get cancer and need 10, $1000 copay MRIs.)

      If you really want to find *shitty* insurance, forget looking at the modest up front costs, and instead look at the yearly and lifetime coverage limits. This is where normal people meet financial ruin, because once the coverage runs out, you are stuck with the remaining hundreds of thousands of dollars of bills. These plans are sold and marketed to people that want the good feeling of insurance, but that are too stupid to see that they are not protected from a catastrophic event.

    16. Re:rather have money by h4rr4r · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People cannot make a sane argument against it.

      They will however make greedy short sighted childish arguments against it.

    17. Re:rather have money by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'd rather have a larger paycheck.

      I'd rather have a jet pack. But if the boss is cutting the free soda, we're both gonna be disappointed.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    18. Re:rather have money by Nemyst · · Score: 3, Funny

      But but but I'm healthy I don't need it! Screw those leeches why would *I* pay for THEIR problems? This is all commie bullshit and you know it.

      (sarcasm intended, if it wasn't already bloody obvious)

    19. Re:rather have money by stephanruby · · Score: 2

      Personally, I'd rather have more healthy snacks like fresh fruits and nuts.

      But either way, if upper management takes away free sodas (without the CEO having to make a similar sacrifice like giving up his corporate jet, or giving up his bonus), upper management and HR better brace themselves for an internal email shit storm that could take down its internal network for a couple of days, if not for a couple weeks, and that could potentially cost the company millions of dollars in loss of productivity and loss of sales (not to mention the eventual loss of key employees, the ones that are in demand enough -- not to be afraid to look for employment elsewhere).

      And if those key employees are developers, good luck replacing them. Code bases and developers are not so easily interchangeable. Please read the book "Mythical Man-Month" by Fred Brooks (if you haven't already).

    20. Re:rather have money by Firethorn · · Score: 2

      get some real health insurance

      Do you mean a 'real healthcare program'? Because a proper 'high deductible' plan is closer to actually being insurance(IE something you're not supposed to use all the time) than most health care plans offered today.

      For example, my dad's HDIP* actually saved him oodles of money when he got cancer. Why? Once he hit the deductible he was covered 100%, and not responsible for $40 copays, $40 per visit, etc... A traditional 'low' deductible plan would have bled him more financially over the course of that.

      Plus, it gave dad predictability - keep at least the deductible in his HSP, and he knows precisely the maximum his healthcare could cost him that year.

      *High Deductible Insurance Plan

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    21. Re:rather have money by gameboyhippo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that this conversation illuminates that you're not very good with money. When you take a high deductible plan, you don't use the savings on beer and video games (or whatever you're into), you save it. Then when you've saved enough, you can go in and start investing the money and make even more money. If you're one to want to spend everything you make or you get sick often, then it's a bad idea. But if you're responsible, don't smoke, take care of yourself, etc... it's a good way to earn more money.

      You have this liberal conception that insurance companies have infinite money. They don't. They make their money by investing money paid by people like you and then earn off the interest. They expect that they will pay out every dollar that is put in, so they profit off of the investments. The scam is low deductible, high premium. Let me guess, you also have whole life insurance, right?

    22. Re:rather have money by tompaulco · · Score: 4, Informative

      While you're at it, ditch this "high deductible" scam and get some real health insurance

      Health Plans are a scam. "High Deductible" is actually insurance. They had to give it a new name because hardly anybody provides insurance anymore, just health plans, so people have forgotten the true meaning of insurance.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    23. Re:rather have money by pwizard2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I wish we could have single-payer health services like every civilized country on earth. But no, there's too much money to be made so we're stuck with this fucked up for-profit system that provides less care at a higher cost than any of the alternatives.

      --
      "It is a denial of justice not to stretch out a helping hand to the fallen; that is the common right of humanity."
    24. Re:rather have money by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Lets see a citation for that.

      Sounds like BS, I say that as someone who lived in such a system in the past.

    25. Re:rather have money by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A shorter version that pretty much sums up all political discourse from the right in the USA is "Fuck you, I got mine!".

    26. Re:rather have money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      My aunt has survived 5 bouts with (supposedly terminal) breast cancer on the Canadian public system.
      My father survived 13 years longer than his original 6 month prognosis on the Canadian public system.

      If I'm hit by a car my treatment is immediate and complete with no one worrying how it will be paid for.

      Yeah, there are long waits sometimes and sometimes people die. But they die because of long waits, not just to save a corporation some money.
      I once took my mother to the emergency room for chest constriction. Within 2 minutes through the door they gave her the initial "want's wrong" check-up and rushed her in for heart treatment. No waiting.

      And people don't die "regularly". That is propaganda and the simple fact that our life expectancy is longer than USA hold light to that.

    27. Re:rather have money by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      What exactly is wrong with the NHS providing chronic care?

      Insurance in nations with that sort of system is a whole different beast.

    28. Re:rather have money by lgw · · Score: 2

      There's little evidence that "regular doctors visits" do anything except clog the system until you need a geriatric specialist for your primary care, if by that you mean annual visits even when you feel well. Remember, there are negative health consequences to false positives.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    29. Re:rather have money by xtracto · · Score: 2

      So much bullshit, at least for the UK.

      I lived there for 4 years and I used the NHS quite frequently and on all levels (from GP to hospital specialists and doing several kinds of analysis).

      If anything, what is horrible with the NHS is the GPs, because you only get 15 minutes (counted by the second) and that's it. GPs do not seem to care, and you are just a number.

      But once you get to the specialist and hospital, everything changes. First, everything is free, so you do not have to worry. Second, the specialists in the hospitals seem to really care, and you know that they are going to make all analysis necessary to find your problem. And you don't have to care about the cost.

      I miss that system, really.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    30. Re:rather have money by BigDaveyL · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You couldn't be more correct here.

      I am a 30-something single white male and I pay less than $1500 for home and auto insurance combined and I get fairly decent coverage. If we allowed the same type of competition/options for health insurance, I bet we would see prices come in line.

      Your point about charging a third party for routine visits. The insurance company gets charged $400 for a simple 15-minute visit. The analogue is getting your oil changed on your car - you don't charge your auto insurance for it and it costs $19.95.

    31. Re:rather have money by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sadly my only option was an FSA, which means they keep the money anyway so I might as well just pay for the more expensive insurance.

      How that is legal I cannot understand.

      On top of all that, this means only the young and well off can afford coverage and woe be to the underprivileged or the elderly.

      The FSA is a stupid joke of a health care policy - how can anyone accurately predict their out of pocket medical expenses for the following year? Fixed expenses like medicines can be predicted, but I just paid for expensive dental work mostly out of pocket with no way to deduct it because I didn't have the forsight to predict that a dental condition would exhaust my meager Dental Insurance annnual cap.

      Rather than an FSA where I have to lock up money in a bank account, I'd like to see medical expenses be fully deductible without having to reach the 7.5% AGI limit. Why should Jane get to deduct her $1200 of predictable $100/month medications, but John can't deduct his $2000 of unexpected dental work? John probably needs the deduction more since his was an unplanned expense.

    32. Re:rather have money by gameboyhippo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yes. I only think for myself since I would rather keep the money I earned than to give it to someone who's unwise with their money. Greed in action. Caught me red handed.

      Your words betray any sort of confidence that you know what you're talking about. Yes, they have two types of profits. One for when they collect more in premiums than they pay out (rare) or one in which they make a profit from their investments (more common). They are primarily interested in making investment income. I have first hand information regarding this.

      See, you bought into this weird "rich people are evil" concept. It's okay to make money. It's okay to be wise with money. It's not greedy or thinking of only yourself. You seem passionate about helping others. Imagine how much more you can help others if you didn't squander your money. I've never quite understood this whole, "I'm not winning, so you can't either" type mentality. Try winning for a change and then help others with your winnings.

    33. Re:rather have money by uncqual · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, quit. The deal you had when you were hired is irrelevant to the deal you have now unless the contract still binds you and the other party. Salaries change, markets change, etc so I don't see why you even mentioned it.

      Also, if the company initially paid P1 for your insurance with a deductible of D1 but the only way to cover you for P1 years later is with a higher deducible D2 (even in CPI adjusted dollars due to medical costs outstripping general inflation for some interval), why would you expect them to not raise the deductible to D2 and continue to pay P1 for your coverage.

      Everyone "wants" more. Markets, in the long term, decide what everyone "gets".

      Do you really "need" more? Are you not getting sufficient hydration and calories to sustain life? If not, you should probably spend the time and personal resources you spent responding to me and instead go for a walk and scavenge some discarded recyclables to sell. Few highly paid people in STEM fields really understand what people "need".

      --
      Why is there an "insightful" mod and why isn't it "-1"? If I wanted insight, I wouldn't be reading /.
    34. Re:rather have money by 9jack9 · · Score: 2

      On top of that why does your employer owe you health insurance in the first place? That also used to be something that was a fringe benefit that people then started to expect and demand like it was owed to them.

      Your employer owes you nothing. And it will give you nothing unless you metaphorically put a gun to its head. It will take everything you've got, your time, yours skills, the best hours of your days, and the best days of your life, and give you *nothing* for it, if you let it. Oh, it's possible that an employer here or there has some notion of mutually assured advantage, that together all stakeholders can work together to everyone's mutual advantage, but even if such a philosophy isn't a smoke screen with which to take everything you've got, unless you have your finger on the big red button, it's just talk.

      If your owners had their way, you'd be working 20 hours a day for a breadcrust, and be happy for it. The only reason they give you *anything* -- vacation, health care, a window, weekends, "free" soda, is because it is economically advantageous to them to do so.

    35. Re:rather have money by h4rr4r · · Score: 3, Informative

      And yet reality disagrees with you.

      Look at outcomes and costs for other systems and see for yourself.

      No charity could ever come close to funding the needs of what you claim are poor people. Try to remember that many poor people are only poor due to a medical issue. The medical industry creates a lot of bankruptcies.

      If what you mean instead is that you are ok with people dying in the street to save yourself a couple tax dollars then just say that.

    36. Re:rather have money by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When I'm here at 8 o'clock at night -- I would much prefer free soda (or a pizza) to an extra $100 in my bank account.

      I wouldn't. I'd rather not be there at 8 o'clock at night. This is a sure sign of poor management.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    37. Re:rather have money by Chryana · · Score: 4, Informative

      How long will you have to wait to get it? Canada, NZ & UK have pretty long waiting lists for expensive procedures (don't know about other countries), and people regularly die waiting for them.

      Funny, I live in Canada, and I never heard of that. You might want to call the local newspapers, they would certainly be interested in this. There must be a liberal conspiracy to hide it all. In all honesty, I think it's sad that you're willing to believe this crap. The truth is, there are people here who choose to pay for treatments in private healthcare facilities, but it's always for non life-threatening procedures when they don't want to wait.

    38. Re:rather have money by KingMotley · · Score: 5, Informative

      Insurance companies have not paid out all dollars taken in for a long time. Investments are not needed for a great many to make huge profits.

      Citation please. Here's mine: http://www.statefarm.com/aboutus/_pdf/2012_annual_report.pdf

      2012 (in millions)
      Premium Earned $33,210
      Paid Claims $21,523
      Claim Expenses $5,240
      Service & Admin Fees $8,026
      ---
      Underwriting Gain or Loss ($1,579)

      So state farm, after paying out the claims, and overhead, lost $1.5 billion dollars in 2012. They made a profit because... "Investment Gain and Other Income" was $3,070, which covered the losses from paying out claims.

      Gameboyhippo was correct, and your "theory" is false.

    39. Re:rather have money by robl · · Score: 3

      That's also the reason that startups are usually run by people in their 20's. Once you get above 40, life changes a bit, you begin to worry about heart attacks, prostate cancer and the like, and actually rely upon good medical insurance given by a company.

      You need at least $250k in the bank if you have a heart attack and have no insurance. A 20-something doesn't worry about that.

      Imagine if the US gets single payer healthcare. Startups won't be for just the 20-somethings anymore.

    40. Re:rather have money by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      On top of that why does your employer owe you health insurance in the first place? That also used to be something that was a fringe benefit that people then started to expect and demand like it was owed to them.

      I don't remember details, but the original reason for employer-provided health insurance was, I believe, a tax dodge cooked up when other types of incentives were eliminated by the government. All well and good, actually, when employment was more or less for life, but absolutely horrible when employment has become almost exclusively short-term and there can be gaps of 1-2 years or more between jobs. For that, an employer-independent insurance program becomes necessary.

      As long as employment was more or less constant, with few gaps, ordinary insurance would have filled the bill, had not the insurance industry taken advantage of the norm being large-company group insurance to put the squeeze on smaller groups and individuals. However, many these days are in a feast-or-famine cycle where they can barely afford insurance sometimes and not at all other times. Few have the discipline to keep paying for "luxuries" such as insurance premiums while long-term unemployed, which is why an agency that is relatively immune to such things - and to business cycles - is more or less essential to keep things on an even keel. Because while watching people drop dead in the streets might appeal to the pseudo-Darwinists among us, the reality is that we end up paying for uninsured emergency care and therefore it is in our own best interests to ensure the availability of preventative health maintenance, if for no other reason than simple economics.

      And, while you can scream "Socialism!" as loud as you like, there are only so many agencies capable of handling that sort of job, of which governments tend to be near the top of the list. Especially since the Catholic Church isn't the all-encompassing body it used to be.

      Your employer owes you nothing. And it will give you nothing unless you metaphorically put a gun to its head. ... The only reason they give you *anything* -- vacation, health care, a window, weekends, "free" soda, is because it is economically advantageous to them to do so.

      That is a bit cynical. Not every employer is Ebenezer Scrooge, although there are more of them than there ought to be. A good employer will give out perks, not merely for financial gain but because it's frankly, an ego trip, and even because "it's the right thing to do".

      Of course a bad employer will do the 20 hours and sell you the breadcrust for 20x the general rate and more. Which is why various governments, unions, and occasionally other agencies make it "economically advantageous" to do better. As in shut down or cripple egregious offenders. Because if you're an ordinary person making an ordinary salary and trying to match strength against an organized group of people with large sums of money and political connections ... well, lots of luck. You'll need it.

      As for who "owes" whom, that's an indication of the illness of the times that neither party no longer feels that they "owe" the other anything. We all owe each other some respect and decency. Or at least that what the US Declaration of Independence asserts. A fair day's work for a fair day's pay, for example.

    41. Re:rather have money by gameboyhippo · · Score: 2

      Your wage is multiple times the national average and you struggle with having a high deductible? Insurance is for the big stuff like cancer, it's not for the little stuff like a runny nose. I think there is a disconnect here.

  2. It's definitely a sign by xevioso · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...that something could be amiss. That said, quite often the perks come right back when the company does better.

    It's not just coders that like free perks...project managers, HR people, and the people who run the business like them as well.

  3. Good Idea, Bad Execution by OverlordQ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, while having these perks is nice, the narrative in this story makes the guy sound like an entitled twat.

    --
    Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  4. The fact they're considered a "perk" is telling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Creating a supportive and productive environment isn't just something restricted to businesses employing software developers, it's just the only industry left that actually gives even the slightest bit of a thought to the happiness of its employees.

  5. It's all BS. by scorp1us · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've been in software development for 15 years now and I never had any of the stuff provided. And I'm glad they didn't. I'd be a fat turd now with diabetes. And the caffeine rush only lasts for about 15 minutes. So it's a myth. You'd be better off putting the money towards better tools, or a in-house better tools program (unassigned work time) so developers can pursue pet projects.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
    1. Re:It's all BS. by T.E.D. · · Score: 2

      This was my comment exactly, except I've been doing this for 25 years rather than 15.

      There was that one time my former (military contractor) employer got it in their collective heads that they'd start a commercial group. They got a lucrative deal for "technology transfer" from Intel, and got it in their heads that they could become a player in the commercial PC graphics market. However, they knew nothing much about the commercial world, so they just slavishly aped all the steriotypes about hip commercial companies, right down to the ping-pong tables and free soft drinks for developers. It sounded like an interesting change at first, so I tried to transfer in myself at one point, but was told I was too old (I had just turned 29 at the time). Of course that didn't stop every manager who could fog up a mirror from transerring in.

      As far as I know never sold another product. Within 5 years they pretty much imploded under the weight of all their overhead.

      My favorite story of that era was about their front door. Our facility had one main entrance with an armed security guard and secured access doors behind him. Every other entrance required a person to badge through a one-person-at-a-time turnstyle. Of course that wasn't very "commercial", or welcoming for all their 0 customers, so the commerical group had their own door put in, at great expense.

      Of course there was a reason for all that security. A couple of months later some crazy defence protestor came to our facility, was turned back by the guard, and then went around trying every entrance until they found one (the commercial group's) that wasn't locked. So guess who got to deal with the crazy protestor? Less than a week later their door was replaced with a secured door, just like everyone else's. A few more thousand $ down the drain, but at least I got a laugh out of it.

  6. Re:Free trip to the hospital, more like by hedwards · · Score: 2

    That's more or less my thought. This is one of the few industries where the boss is expected to directly provide the snacks during the day.

    As much as I am in favor of the employer taking care of the employees, that isn't what's going on here. And as you mention, in the long run it tends to exact a toll on the body. If the industry wants better work, it might make more sense to provide things that improve the work life balance and make it easier to stay for the long term.

  7. Being treated like they matter by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not the free drinks or candy, although those things are nice. What developers want is to feel like they matter to the company. One of the ways a company can do that is to provide some small freebies. But freebies alone don't cut it.

    1. Re:Being treated like they matter by fermion · · Score: 2

      It is said that the women who rolled the cigars in Cuba were supplied with readers. These readers would entertain them with lectures and the like. I suppose it made them more efficient at rolling cigars.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    2. Re:Being treated like they matter by nine-times · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think this is a more appropriate way of looking at things. If you want to keep valuable employees happy, it helps to show them that they're appreciated. That might mean giving them free candy and soda, but there are many other options. It might mean that you let them leave a little early or have an extra day off. It might mean that you give them a more flexible schedule or let them work from home. It might mean that you give them more interesting and more challenging projects. It might mean that you make a point to say "Thank you. Job well done."

      The ways of showing people that they're important and appreciated are varied, and part of how you show someone that you appreciate them is by bothering to figure out what makes them feel appreciated.

      Soda and candy? That wouldn't make me feel appreciated, and I wouldn't worry about a company that cut those. I'd be more concerned about a company that treats its employees badly but hopes to buy them off with soda and candy.

  8. Re:No perks not always bad by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Options are a poor way of compensating employees. Just ask all the MS employees whose options are effectively worthless because the strike price is inappropriate for what the stock price will ever be. A better strategy would be to just do proper profit sharing or give them actual shares in the company.

  9. Caffeine Yes... other perks maybe... by adisakp · · Score: 2

    I have a number of coworkers who basically don't function until their second cup of coffee in the morning. Providing coffee, tea, and soda is a no-brainer for increased productivity.

    FWIW, most "free food" programs encourage workers to come in earlier (for breakfast) or stay later (work past dinner time) or to not spend a long time off the company property over lunch. The extra time at work usually pays for the food costs. When we have "crunch time" and are working late, my company orders food for people putting in extra hours. It's probably cheaper than overtime as well.

  10. R.E.S.P.E.C.T. by CityZen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Aretha Franklin knows what we need.

    1. Re:R.E.S.P.E.C.T. by CaptainLard · · Score: 2

      Are you saying Aretha Franklin thinks we need a Really Excellent Soul Performer Eliciting Catchy Tunes? Cause I'd prefer that over soda to get me moving at work!

  11. Obviously you'd like to get paid more by Karmashock · · Score: 2

    However, if you're dealing with really top talent people like to be in a nice work environment.

    This isn't exclusive to developers. You see this in business management. Corporate headquarters are often very nice buildings. Senior management gets lots of perks.

    The free sodas developers get is trickle down of that. Its not a free private jet. Its a cheap machine the company can maintain in your recreation room. If they company is so strapped for cash that they're scrapping that then yeah... layoffs are very likely.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
  12. The signaling aspect is more important by JDG1980 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The perks themselves may not be that important to many employees. What matters is that the existence of the perks sends a message: that the company values its employees and is willing to put some amount of effort into retaining them. As the original article pointed out, if a company isn't willing to spend a few bucks on free food and drinks that the employees value, how long will it be until the work environment deteriorates in other ways?

    Things are different if you work for a nonprofit and/or government agency where there is less discretionary income. You know what you're getting into. But a for-profit company has the choice. If they cut out minor perks like free soda, they're saying that they are willing to piss off their employees to add a few bucks to the bottom line. Either that, or they really are on the verge of bankruptcy – and in both cases it's a good idea to be looking for the exits.

    1. Re:The signaling aspect is more important by DingerX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a fundamental aspect of human psychology. If the owner of the house you're in provides something for free, then you have a host-guest relationship. If not, then you have a mercenary one. This holds from airlines to assembly lines. Guess which approach is more effective at getting people to do what you want?

    2. Re:The signaling aspect is more important by 0racle · · Score: 2

      A company stressing the perks they give does not send the message 'the company values its employees' it tells me the company has decided to attempt to try and wow you with the cheapest things it can get a hold of in lieu of actually doing anything for it's employees (read: raises). It looks like the company is treating you like a little child, that they expect you to be happy because they gave you a shiny object.

      --
      "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
  13. The best perk by spaceyhackerlady · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The best perk for me has always been interesting work in a congenial environment. Everything else is secondary. It helps to be a senior person, so my tasks are usually along the lines of "Figure out $newtechnology. Find a way for the company to make money with it."

    I've worked for a number of companies who did the "we pay less but we're such a great place to work!" thing. Someday I'd like to at least visit a "we pay lots but it sucks to work here" company, just to see what it's like.

    ...laura

  14. Caffeine and Time by ScottCooperDotNet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not just the caffeine that benefits the company by stimulating workers, but also that you don't have staff doing daily coffee runs for a half hour.

  15. Biggest Perk by Murdoch5 · · Score: 2

    Is to let the developers work and have fun. Don't stand over them demanding strict and tight control, the more fun you make the job the better it will get done.

  16. What? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    As someone who doesn't want diabetes or to become overweight, I would prefer healthy food. I'm sick of the "candy, fast food, pizza" atmosphere in IT. I feel like a lot of companies who buy their employees food tend to focus solely on those which are bad for our health.

  17. The last thing people should worry about by Joe+Tie. · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The majority of places I've worked that really put effort into keeping a stocked kitchen do so for pretty manipulative reasons. They plan on absurd amounts of overtime or even unpaid hours and know that people are going to be less inclined to agree if their body is screaming for dinner.

    --
    Everything will be taken away from you.
  18. The real perks I want by unfortunateson · · Score: 4, Insightful

    1) A decent ergonomic chair that works for people 2 meters tall
    2) A door
    3) A manager who will
          a) go to the meetings on my behalf and send me the 3-line email with the one detail that I needed to be there for
          b) find interesting work for me to do
    4) A bonus program that has clear, achievable objectives that pay out at least something if I beat my goals -- don't pull the rug out from under my feet if I've been slaving, just because Sales can't get in the door

    --
    Design for Use, not Construction!
    1. Re:The real perks I want by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 2

      1) A decent ergonomic chair that works for people 2 meters tall 2) A door 3) A manager who will a) go to the meetings on my behalf and send me the 3-line email with the one detail that I needed to be there for b) find interesting work for me to do 4) A bonus program that has clear, achievable objectives that pay out at least something if I beat my goals -- don't pull the rug out from under my feet if I've been slaving, just because Sales can't get in the door

      A place with all that probably has the free soda and snacks, too.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
  19. worst place by Spazmania · · Score: 2

    One of the worst places I've worked had a well stocked break room. Sodas, chips, ice cream, everything short of a full meal. They patted themselves on the back about how well they treated their employees. And failed to treat them well in the areas that matter.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
    1. Re:worst place by danlip · · Score: 2

      I agree it's just one of many factors, and I've worked for bad companies with good freebies. But the well-stocked breakroom costs them so little money compared to everything else that when they do cut that cost it is a bad sign, i.e. the "canary in the coal mine" reference in the summary is accurate. I've seen it happen.

  20. intrinsic motivation by mbaGeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the head of NCR (way back in the first half of the 20th century) was asked about the generous "fringe benefits" the company provided (including a golf course). He pointed out that employees were move productive when provided with the benefits. In his opinion NCR wasn't "giving away" anything, just doing what was best for the company.

    any "perks" (like free soda) only increase productivity if the employee is happy with their base compensation. If someone thinks they are drastically underpaid/unvalued then no amount of freebies will matter

    if someone feels like they are valued and doing important work - then they will be more productive/loyal

    my guess is that the return on investment for free soda/coffee (in increased productivity) is extremely high - but it isn't about the soda

    There is actually quite a bit of research on this type of thing - I'd recommend "Drive" by Daniel Pink and "Predictably Irrational" by Dan Ariely (he just did a coursera class as well) for anyone interested ...

    --
    It ain't what they call you. It's what you answer to. http://mylyceum.us/
  21. A convenient canary... by Above · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I do believe it is a canary in a coal mine. I'm amazed at companies that will have no problem spending $125,000 in salary on a high end programmer, which is probably $150,000 with benefits and all that but if they want a second monitor for $400 it's a big no-can-do. Soda/tea/coffee is $0.10-$0.30 a serving, even if someone were a major drinker at 5 servings a day of the expensive stuff that's $375/person/year, or about the same cost. Gives you an idea of what they are willing to spend on a happy, productive employee.

    People don't need a lot to be happy, but basic respect and curtesy go a long way. If you went to someone's house to visit them one of the first things they are likely to offer is some sort of beverage. It's basic hospitality. And the company isn't just inviting the employees into their environment, but what about vendors, partners, or customers come to visit? There should be something to offer to them.

    Lots of management types are under the impression that getting a paycheck is what makes people happy. It's a false logic, just because not getting a paycheck makes people unhappy doesn't mean it works the other way around.

    1. Re:A convenient canary... by HeckRuler · · Score: 2

      Yeah, there's this nice video, RSA Animate:Drive, about what actually motivates knowledge workers. I find it insightful and it helped me focus on being a better happier developer rather than chasing a bigger paycheck.

    2. Re:A convenient canary... by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 2

      I fully agree with you on this. It is not the soda, "There is no soda", it is respect. One startup I worked for had a we're-all-in-it-together attitude where we happily tolerated crap computers/desks/office etc. But as success came along the owner just kept taking every perk possible. I quit when he asked me to bring him and a client coffee. (I cleaned out my desk and left).

  22. the article really talks about two things by Mirar · · Score: 2

    There's two things to this story.

    1. "perks" - but I wouldn't want to call it perks. It's efficiency benefits. Coders and other creative people work better if you make sure they (we?) have everything they need. Coffee, snacks, soda, bananas... that extra half hour of effective coding a day pays off _quickly_.

    But it's really the same with things you wouldn't consider "perks" - computers and OSes that helps efficiency, ergonomic chairs and keyboards, silent enough environments, few enough meetings... everyone can probably easily make up their own list of what *they* need to be an efficient and creative at the workplace. Those needs should be grouped with the soda.

    Personally, I rather have a creative and happy workplace than higher salary. But then again, I like to spend my work-time creative and happy.

    2. The other thing the article is talking about is the warning sign. If things like free soda gets pulled - which doesn't cost much - much bigger things are on the horizon. Update your linkedin profile. Start looking for a new place... This is absolutely true.
    (GM pulled the free coffee - a little later they sold the office, and a little later went economically haywire. Most people had left just a little after the coffee incident.)

    Other warning signs includes phrases like "business as usual".

    (Right now I wouldn't want to work at Google, for instance.)

    That said, my office doesn't have free soda. But the work is very creative and full of freedom and I'm quite happy anyway. :)

  23. An example of negative perks by msobkow · · Score: 5, Interesting

    One company I worked for not only didn't provide coffee and drinks, they didn't provide coffee machines or drink dispenser machines. Even worse, they forbid coffee machines at the desk.

    Not because of power supply issues, no.

    Because they gave the cafeteria company an exclusive contract to supply beverages to the entire staff.

    So instead of having coffee clubs like I did at most places I worked over the years, I was expected to pay nearly $2 for a sixteen ounce shitty cafeteria coffee. And I wasn't supposed to have them any time except 10, 12, and 2.

    I quit.

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  24. Narrow vs economy of scale 'perks' by globaljustin · · Score: 2

    The problem I see here is a narrow idea of what a 'perk' can be.

    Typically office environments are over regulated, and antagonistic managers use things humans *naturally need*...random breaks, flexible hours, snack food, wearing hawaiian shirts, etc. and turn them into a *commodity for you to earn.*

    Its part of the archaic business model we all struggle against.

    As a former employee, I'd definitely take the *cash* over gamed-out 'perks'...

    However, as a current employer, I'd like to defend the idea of a 'perk' from those who despise the notion....

    See, businesses have **economy of scale**

    We can buy things in bulk...including things our employees wouldn't otherwise be able to afford on their own.

    To me, as a business owner, THIS is a perk....a non-compensatory benefit that you get b/c you work for me.

    Food, drinks, etc. are all in this category, but that's really minor league perks. If a division leader has a budget for stuff to help employee morale, a wise use of it would maximize the economy of scale and wholesale access...not just get a discount on pizza (although that's nice too sometimes)

    ex: when I was a snowboarding instructor, one of our 'perks' was that the managers would let us buy as much as we wanted off of their 'pro form' from their corporate sponsors. Which means snowboarding gear at 50% of *wholesale*....that was a fskign 'perk'...and it helped our performance as employees!

    Most biz perks are just gaming out your needs and using it as a carrot/stick...

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  25. It is a good canary by Wokan · · Score: 2

    I stopped drinking soda many months back, but I see such perks as signs of a company's financial health, just like the OP suggests.

  26. Quality of life by Darkness404 · · Score: 2

    In the end, its all about quality of life.

    Would I be willing to take a lower-paying job that I really loved when compared to a higher-paying job that I dreaded going to? Yes.

    Having a flexible work environment is something that would keep me working for less of a paycheck and still be happy. On the other hand, a very restrictive work environment I'm really not going to like so I better have good pay.

    "Free perks" do not mean that developers thrive, but a relaxed work environment (that costs next to nothing!) helps developers thrive. Flexible hours and a relaxed dress code (T-shirt, shorts and flip flops should be ok) cost nothing to implement but yet can really help tech-minded people thrive. The thing is, managers who understand how the "techie mind" work generally tend to go a bit overboard and include a bunch of other stuff too, which does help, but not to the same degree.

    Bottom line, if you expect your IT people and developers to come in wearing suits from 9-5 and be "productive" for all those hours sitting quietly in a cubicle, you're going to have to pay your tech people a lot. On the other hand, if you can make going to work feel more like a hobby, more relaxed and more interesting, you can find people who will work for you for less.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
  27. Re:hello diabetes by bickerdyke · · Score: 2

    Coffee/soda being free does NOT mean you have to gulp it down till you burst!

    --
    bickerdyke
  28. 100% dental by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I worked for a company where we had 100% dental for just about any procedure; it was awesome. Our company was purchased by a stodgy company run by 60 year old suits so I quit. Weeks later the first thing to go was the 100% dental. Two years later 95% of the staff were gone with only the most useless paper pushers remaining; basically people who couldn't move on.

    What I have discovered with programmers is that the good ones are quite smart and don't take much crap. So a clear and fair salary system that is open works far better than the pretending that nobody blabs their and any other salaries that they know. If you want to quickly empty out a room of your best programmers reveal that some useless stump of a manger earns 3 times as much and blew at least one of their salaries on travel.

    Or if you want them to quit after a few weeks of seething then just do a nepotism hire and put him in charge of "code reviews".

    The key is not so much that perks make or break an environment but that they indicate a respect for the programmers. Often programmers are somewhat trapped in the office while the marketing and management get to travel and wine and dine clients. Thus throwing them some bones such as food and conference travel balances out the equation. But once management starts to act like the programmers are a bunch of undeserving brats it is game over.

    One company that I particularly enjoyed quitting from would have the upper management basically give customer tours of the programmers like we were a zoo exhibit.

    The best part of when they cut a perk and lose programmers is how many of the management seem to think that the pathetic losers quit because they took away the free drinks or some such. Then they get angry when they realize how development has screeched to a halt when the only 3 competent programmers just took off. I have even heard accusations of sabotage.