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Curiosity Rewarded: Florida Teen Heading to Space Camp, Not Jail

Kiera Wilmot, the Florida high school student who was expelled from her school after an unauthorized science experiment was misperceived as a weapon (at least for purposes of arrest and charging), won't be going to jail. She will, though, be going to Space Camp, thanks to a crowdfunding campaign started by author and former NASA engineer Homer Hickham. All charges against her have been dropped.

241 comments

  1. Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It scares me shitless that my kindergartner could be kicked out of school for folding his hands and saying bang in this insane and litigious age.

    1. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by MetalliQaZ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Intelligence? I think you mean curiosity. Let's be honest. If she had thought it through a little bit more, this "experiment" wouldn't have landed her in hot water. Curiosity is still a very good thing, though.

      --
      "Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
    2. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Ferzerp · · Score: 1

      Fear motivates the world (or at least the US) these days.

      The media peddles it, the two political parties (I was tempted to say major, but they have a lock on it) *both* peddle it to great effect. They each have their own brand, but they're both villainous in their exploitation of it.

      The public has bought in to it, and individuals and groups lacking in scruples have noticed that it can be used to rally support.

    3. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      you forgot the step where they call the police to come for your little terrorist-in-training. Because we that as kids that played cops'n'robbers or soldiers or cowboys'n'injuns grew up to be violent mass murderers....oh wait we didn't

    4. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      " If she had thought it through a little bit more, this "experiment" wouldn't have landed her in hot water."

      IIRC, she cleared it with her teacher? Used a small amount of chemicals in an open area. That sounds pretty safe, cautious and intelligent to me. Nobody got hurt, but because the reaction was exothermic and dramatic, one observer felt someone *could* have gotten hurt. So, instead of reacting sensibly, they went off the deep end and called the police. The person lacking judgement and intelligence wa the school administrator, not the young lady.

    5. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Let's be honest. If she had thought it through a little bit more, this "experiment" wouldn't have landed her in hot water.

      I defy you to tell us honestly that you would have "thought it through a little bit more" when you were her age.

      It's pretty clear by your statement that you have no idea what children are actually like, nor have any of your own.

    6. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Baloroth · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, the teacher did not know about the experiment. The girl mixed the chemicals on the advice of "a friend." The administration overreacted, but she probably did deserve some form of punishment. Mixing chemicals in closed containers without knowing exactly what they do (she said she thought it would just produce some smoke), and without supervision, on school property? Extremely bad idea.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    7. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the GP had children of their own, would they not know what children are like? Thus, if they do not know what children are like, they clearly have none of their own. And, yes, I have intentionally posted something redundant in order to point out your redundancy.

    8. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      FTFA:

      Wilmot told him a friend had told her to mix the two substances, but that she "thought it would just cause some smoke." She told the school official she wasn't trying to hurt anyone or disrupt school, but was simply "conducting a science fair experiment." The assistant principal called police after talking to Wilmot's science teacher and determining he didn't know about the experiment.

      Do two overreactions make a right?

    9. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by tompaulco · · Score: 1, Troll

      Mixing chemicals in closed containers without knowing exactly what they do (she said she thought it would just produce some smoke), and without supervision, on school property? Extremely bad idea.
      You're right, an extremely bad idea. Perhaps schools should supply a person that could be charged with supervising classes.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    10. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bad idea yes, but being kicked out of school and retorted to police isn't a proportional punishment.

      The right answer would be a figurative slap on the wrist for "borrowing" chemicals from the lab, and some detention exercises to calculate the reaction results, and the pressures/temperatures generated in the containment vessel.

    11. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Peter+Simpson · · Score: 2

      I was wrong on clearing it with the teacher. She should have done that.
      But, she gets points for "small amount" (less than 8 oz) and "open area".
      And how is a reaction that pops the top off a plastic bottle in any way a "bomb" or "destructive device"? (which was how she was charged)
      Bad choice of location and didn't cover her ass with the teacher, but that's all I see wrong here. We had a kid in my class at school who used to mix up far worse in the chem lab, and as far as I know, he never suffered for it.

    12. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're right, an extremely bad idea. Perhaps schools should supply a person that could be charged with supervising classes.

      The explosion happened outside, before school started...

      http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/charges-teen-explosion-fla-school-19189254

    13. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Fear is our biggest problem right now.

      Why aren't we going to the Gym to get in shape? Fear of going into a gym out of shape and being judged by others. (I will go to the Gym after I lose 20 lbs)
      Why aren't we starting our own businesses but dealing with the lower reward working for a company? Fear that our ideas will get sued by patent trools or other companies. Or if the case your product did fail in some way you are responsible for a problem that is much bigger than you.
      Why are Religious Fundamentalists going nuts about evolution and gay rights? They are afraid these changes will cause our culture to reject religion and have society force them to be atheist.
      Why are businesses not expanding? They are afraid that new regulations will make it impossible for them to work. ...
      Our culture has been poisoned with fear. But there isn't anything really about the facts to be afraid of, but because off all the fear we are paralyzed into doing the best thing for ourselves and our culture.

      Politically is isn't about right vs left. It is about most of our leaders are or were Lawyers, They think in terms of a Lawyers, our leaders are not made up of peers of different skills. Except for adding a new law, perhaps we can change a process. Instead of trying a way to prosecute people who do things that are negative culturally lets try ways that will change their behaviors proactively, as well rehabilitate post incident.

      For example I got into a car accident. I rear ended a car, however I did help prevent the car behind me from rear ending me, and the car in front of me got very little damage, while my car got the brunt of it. I never got in such an accident before. However the police at the scene figure they had to give me a ticket because in my state I am legally responsible. Except for the fact that I am now without my favorite car and have to pay a good insurance deductible, they felt like to rub some salt into my wound by adding a $100 ticket. The system is setup to try to discourage people from committing the crimes, they figure if you get punished for it you will learn your lesson. Except for slightly modifying the roads so these things wouldn't happen, or just realizing the person is already in enough pain. But our leaders are lawyers, every law that is broken and caught needs a punishment. So people will live in fear of breaking the laws.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    14. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful
      It's more complicated than that

      "Unfortunately, what she did falls into our code of conduct," Leah Lauderdale, a spokeswoman for the district, tells Riptide. "It's grounds for immediate expulsion."

      More specifically, Wilmot's mini-explosion -- which came after she mixed "common household chemicals" in a plastic bottle -- violates Section 7.05 of the school's conduct code, Lauderdale says, which mandates expulsion for any "student in possession of a bomb (or) explosive device... while at a school (or) a school-sponsored activity... unless the material or device is being used as part of a legitimate school-related activity or science project conducted under the supervision of an instructor."

      ...Wilmot's principal acknowledges that the 16-year-old wasn't trying to hurt anyone and simply made a "bad choice," the school's rules said she had to be expelled.

      ...The spokeswoman says the school district stands by its rules. "We urge our parents to convey to their kids that there are consequences to their actions," she says.

      source They undoubtedly maintained that since a teacher wasn't present at the time, that violated the letter of the law and, obviously, "NO EXCEPTIONS TO RULES EVER" is the most important message schools can teach to kids. (sarcasm)

      There's also obviously a bit of "I'm just following orders, it's not me who is doing this clearly stupid and unethical thing even though I am the actual one expelling you."

      I think there are two big roots to the problem. The first is zero tolerance policies. Schools love them deep down because it makes fretful parents think their children are safer, and also probably dealing with kids all day makes you really want to clamp down hard with rules for your own sanity. And obviously in this case, the school was more interested in showing that students are not going to be blown up by science-loving terrorist children than they were in the student. Even if the schools didn't want zero tolerance, all the other idiots involved want them, legislators and parents.

      The second is personal liability. No one wants to stand up and say "Fuck that rule, it's a stupid fucking rule" and then potentially lose their job. I have no idea how likely that would have been in this case. Evidently, no one even wanted to say "She DID have permission, so she's not really violating the rules." Maybe the teacher who gave her permission chickened out and said "Well, I didn't give her permission to do THAT, so please don't fire me.

      TLDR: it would be nice if someone had the power to use their own judgement and intelligence here, but there are plenty of mechanisms in place to ensure that can't happen. Preventing this type of idiotic heavy-handed action will require bigger changes than one administrator growing a brain and/or balls.

    15. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by DocMAME · · Score: 2, Informative

      Never seen a Works bomb on YouTube, huh? Take a look and see how destructive one can be... it is a heated chemical reaction that melts the bottle as it attempts to expand and contain it prior to exploding and spraying caustic toilet bowl cleaner all about...

    16. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Let me present another viewpoint here:

      She should've never been expelled, charged, or anything. No rewards, or punishments, maybe a warning and explanation, just kids being kids.
      The person who got scared the most by the experiment was probably her, and that's it... that's where it ends.

      Everything else that happened in this case is adult humans failing left and right, the police, the school officer, the principal, bunch of f'in morons who aren't fit to work at a McDonalds yet hold positions of authority. That's the real problem here, and we are worse as a whole for it.

    17. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by joebagodonuts · · Score: 1

      So "Intelligence" means don't take risk? Do only what is permitted?

      --
      "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
    18. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      She built a Drano bomb. That's not intelligence.

    19. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by supervillainsf · · Score: 1

      If the GP had children of their own, would they not know what children are like? Thus, if they do not know what children are like, they clearly have none of their own. And, yes, I have intentionally posted something redundant in order to point out your redundancy.

      I know quite a few parents who have no idea what children are like. You presume a level of interaction with ones spawn that is not necessarily present.

    20. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Synerg1y · · Score: 2

      Right... because kids think exactly like you do and premeditate all their actions. I won't even go as far as to say it was stupid on her part, she simply didn't know, so it was ignorant.

    21. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having children and raising children are two different things by definition of the legal system mentioned above (think custody cases). So no, you're about as ignorant as the administration in this case.

    22. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2

      My HS physical science teacher would pull out a cylinder of pure Sodium every year and take his classes outside. There he had a 5 gallon bucket of water and a 2x4 with a string tied to it. He'd cut off a slice of the sodium and place it atop the 2x4 which sat atop the 5 gallon bucket. He'd then move everybody a safe distance and drop the sodium into the water by pulling the string. BAM! He'd probably get arrested for doing that today...if not he'd definitely get hauled in for igniting the magnesium inside the classroom.

      So sad.

      --
      "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    23. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by serialband · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, the teacher did not know about the experiment. The girl mixed the chemicals on the advice of "a friend." The administration overreacted, but she probably did deserve some form of punishment. Mixing chemicals in closed containers without knowing exactly what they do (she said she thought it would just produce some smoke), and without supervision, on school property? Extremely bad idea.

      The only punishment she deserved was a stern talking to. She was punished plenty by the big bang that ensued and probably scared her out of her wits. Now, she gets a reward to go to space camp. That's not quite an appropriate message either.

    24. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but killing with a BB gun is fine there.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    25. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many years ago? My HS Chem teacher did that around 97-98. And that was in Cali, king of the nanny-states.

    26. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      Part of the problem is that most laws don't take morality into effect. Sure, some laws have a min and max punishment to help judge the severity, but there's no real system to say does this law apply or not in this situation. This starts at the highest levels of government (where they just buy their way out of any law), and trickles down to your motorcycle cop, who's more interested in making his/her quota then actually helping people and serving justice.

      To be perfectly honest, I have no idea how to fix it, except remember we have min maxs for this reason as well as probation and parole. Probation is exactly that: you did wrong, so can you be good for a year or two now? There's many examples of it working, and it failing (ex. you get a DUI, but you keep drinking at home, probation finds out through a variety of ways, and now do 2-3 months of jail time, you get exposed to hardened criminals, etc...)

    27. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I defy you to tell us honestly that you would have "thought it through a little bit more" when you were her age.

      To be fair, the girl is 16. She's not exactly a child.

    28. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Slugster · · Score: 2

      The teacher doing a possibly-hazardous demonstration with reasonable safety precautions, and a student doing it without permission are two rather different things.

      IMO it wasn't that severe of an act, but what she did was make a Drano-bomb. (for some reason the kids are using toilet cleaner these days, but anyway) It's not a science experiment any more than making a Molotov cocktail would be. The stories that called it a 'science experiment' were also the ones calling for leniency on her behalf.

      Like them or not, most schools do have zero-tolerance policies against weapons, and that includes bombs. And zero tolerance rules apply, even if you're a minority. And even if you're a girl.

    29. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      THe person you responded to is an idiot.

      It's like saying, yeah, you should shouldn't illegally park. Yeah, execution might be a little bit extreme, but hey, come on--SOMETHING had to be done.

    30. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by hedwards · · Score: 2

      Expulsion was over the top, but there's a reason why there's a requirement that a professional be there supervising, it dramatically decreases the likelihood of there being any mistakes or injuries. Sure, it still might happen, but having a chemist there would be prudent.

      That's not to say that you can't have some fun, I remember my high school chemistry teacher light soap bubbles filled with methane on fire in class. There were even scorch marks on the ceiling to prove it.

    31. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by schlick · · Score: 2, Interesting

      which mandates expulsion for any "student in possession of a bomb (or) explosive device... while at a school (or) a school-sponsored activity... unless the material or device is being used as part of a legitimate school-related activity or science project conducted under the supervision of an instructor

      Technically, (and theses people seem to love technicalities), party poppers, snappers, and other harmless things are grounds for expulsion... And people think that parents who home-school their children are the crazy ones.

      --
      "It's because they're stupid, that's why. That's why everybody does everything." -Homer Simpson
    32. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Having actually done something like this, at approximately her age, I did think about it. Indeed, even back before there were terrorists behind every tree, I realized that even though I thought creating a chemical reaction would not be a big deal, I knew that there is no way I'd do that on school grounds. So I did my experiments out in a field, nowhere near school property.

      I understand that she thought that it wouldn't explode, but did she really think that running that kind of reaction on school grounds was a good idea? Perhaps she hadn't spent enough time blowing things up as a kid to understand that you don't want to mix potentially explodey things in public.

      And I am not just talking about school grounds = public space. Kids her age should be well aware that schools are a zone where even minor infractions can generate huge overreactions from administrators, more so than even if she did it on some sidewalk. Schools are about as close as we have to a rights-free location, outside of prisons and the military.

    33. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "NO EXCEPTIONS TO RULES EVER" is the most important message schools can teach to kids.

      That is actually the rule that public schools were set up to teach kids. That the kids who go to public schools are to follow the rules and do what their "betters" tell them to do. Now the children of those "betters" go to private schools and receive different lessons.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    34. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by AkkarAnadyr · · Score: 1

      Preventing this type of idiotic heavy-handed action will require bigger changes than one administrator growing a brain and/or balls.

      One administrator can and should start the system on this road by growing a brain. They're in that business - growing people's brains. If they can't provide a good example, they deserve a review of their competence, let alone whether they ought to sleep comfortably at night, or look anyone in the eye afterwards.

      --

      I bought this house and you know I'm boss
      Ain't no h'aint gonna run me off

    35. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by AkkarAnadyr · · Score: 1

      See this comment also. Good on ya, Wilgas.

      --

      I bought this house and you know I'm boss
      Ain't no h'aint gonna run me off

    36. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Intelligence means don't take stupid risks. Mixing chemicals that you know will react (you're just not sure how) in a public place with strict rules about adult supervision is a STUPID risk. It shows not only a lack of proper safety awareness, but also of rule awareness and situational awareness. I don't want my rocket scientists taking stupid risks, and the only thing we know about this girl from this incident is that she is, at best, unable to discern the difference between a stupid risk and a reasonable risk.

    37. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by drerwk · · Score: 1

      It's more complicated than that

      "Unfortunately, what she did falls into our code of conduct," Leah Lauderdale, a spokeswoman for the district, tells Riptide. "It's grounds for immediate expulsion." More specifically, Wilmot's mini-explosion -- which came after she mixed "common household chemicals" in a plastic bottle -- violates Section 7.05 of the school's conduct code, Lauderdale says, which mandates expulsion for any "student in possession of a bomb (or) explosive device... while at a school (or) a school-sponsored activity... unless the material or device is being used as part of a legitimate school-related activity or science project conducted under the supervision of an instructor." ...Wilmot's principal ack

      http://www.fedcoplaw.com/html/Federal%20Explosives%20and%20Bombing%20Laws.dwt.htm
      Not obvious to me that what she had qualifies as either a bomb or explosive.

    38. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many years ago? My HS Chem teacher did that around 97-98. And that was in Cali, king of the nanny-states.

      That was pre-9/11, everything changed forever after 9/11. The terrorist, the freedoms, even name of french fries. America, fuck yeah.

    39. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      Yes, she deserved a "punishment". That punishment should have taken the form of a mild scolding. "Honey, we probably should have stressed that you don't mix chemicals until you're sure what to expect from them! Next time, ask BEFORE you mix the stuff up!" And, that should have been the end of it.

      Well, the end of it, except for some ice cream. No high school experiment is complete until the ice cream has been consumed.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    40. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > "NO EXCEPTIONS TO RULES EVER" is the most important message schools can teach to kids.

      NO EXCEPTIONS TO RULES EVER is to protect the school and it's administrators, not kids.

      When admins dont have to make judgement calls, they cant be sued for bad judgement. Any lawsuits will be met in court with "this is our standard policy." It will stop all kinds of legal actions.

    41. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      My middle school science teacher had a great time dropping tiny chunks of elemental sodium in water in class as part of a chemistry lesson. Unfortunately that led to a couple of curious students later dropping a much-too-large piece of it in the toilet in the boy's room...

      In the end the students were given detentions for taking the sodium without asking, and I don't think anything happened to the teacher (who was a great teacher in general). In today's absurd educational environment the teacher probably would have been fired and the straight A students (one of whom is now an aeronautical engineer and the other a doctor) expelled and their future academic careers ruined...

    42. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by nbauman · · Score: 1

      This is the kind of thing that chemistry books in the 1950s and 1960s encouraged kids to do.

      One of the 19th century classics was Faraday's Chemical History of a Candle, which showed you how to make a paint can blow its top with lycopodium powder. (Still a great book for kids, now open source.) My chemistry teacher used that one in class. There was one British popular science lecturer who said that an indoor explosion is a good way to get peoples' attention.

      The big difference is that back then, making bombs and rockets helped us fight our enemy, the communists. Now, making bombs and rockets is the kind of thing our enemies, the muslim terrorists, do.

      You gotta admit, we beat the Russians to the moon. OK, they beat us into space. But putting a man on the moon is what really counts.

    43. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by steelfood · · Score: 1

      I hope you realize that of the two roots you listed, one is a direct result of the other.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    44. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      Yes but not such a bad idea that we should be discussing it. This should have died at the local level.

      --
      Good-bye
    45. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      "Honey, we probably should have stressed that you don't mix chemicals until you're sure what to expect from them!

      That statement is the school taking responsibility for unauthorized and unexpected experiments undertaken by any student. It wasn't the school's fault that they didn't tell her explicitly not to mix random things together to see what happens.

      Next time, ask BEFORE you mix the stuff up!"

      And that statement would be the school accepting responsibility for whatever experiments the student comes up with. "Hey, you told my child it was ok to mix X and Y and now she's lost a finger or two and the house has serious damage ... I'm suing...".

    46. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you know the result before you do it it's a demonstration, not an experiment.

    47. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I think a detention for a day for stealing the supplies and not seeking supervision would have been appropriate. Criminal charges and expulsion definitely not. I like the other guy's idea of having her calculate the amount of heat generated and pressure built up by the reaction to see how dangerous it could have been if she had scaled up as part of her detention.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    48. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not enough to not "punish" her. The right thing to do is to punish all those who tried to punish her in the first place.

    49. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And it disgusts me that some OTHER kindergartner could harass and bully another one, and it'll likely be the victim that ends up getting punished.

      For example, making fun of a person with a disability. Who's going to end up getting punished? Who's going to do anything to stop the behavior?

    50. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Chickenlips · · Score: 2

      There was absolutely no reason for the police to have been called. It's beyond upsetting to read about kids being cuffed and taken out of school for things that would've warranted having the parents come in, detention or even suspension by the vice principle during my childhood. This affair will influence this person's approach to curiosity in a negative way. The police have a definite place in society. Their role has been undergoing feature creep, though. Time for a fresh look at what we (as a society) are allowing to happen.

    51. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Hatta · · Score: 1

      The only punishment she deserved was a stern talking to.

      And an assigned essay in which she explains exactly what happened in that reaction vessel.

      Now, she gets a reward to go to space camp. That's not quite an appropriate message either.

      Rewarding curiosity is exactly the kind of message we want to send.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    52. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TLDR: it would be nice if someone had the power to use their own judgement and intelligence here, but there are plenty of mechanisms in place to ensure that can't happen. Preventing this type of idiotic heavy-handed action will require bigger changes than one administrator growing a brain and/or balls.

      But who actually HAS that judgement or intelligence? Teachers? Cops? Principals? You? The only people who can be trusted to care for that girl's future are her parents, and they don't even get to choose to which school she goes. There's your personal liability.

      When it comes to public policy, I'll take objectively-defined rules over subjective judgement calls any day. At least then I know if I'm allowed to do an experiment before I start. You'll always find edge cases to complain about, and I'll always find systemic bias/discrimination to complain about.

    53. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you do the research to see what is already known e.g; Am I doing something foolish? Is there information about related phenomena available? If this is a well-studied subject, are there any related unanswered questions that I could contribute to? etc. etc. Basic stuff for anyone exposed to the scientific method.

    54. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by richlv · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Kids her age should be well aware that schools are a zone where even minor infractions can generate huge overreactions from administrators

      i'm scared of you, your country and the spawns it will create.

      --
      Rich
    55. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It scares me shitless that my kindergartner could be kicked out of school for folding his hands and saying bang in this insane and litigious age.

      Litigious doesn't mean what I think you think it means.

      You need to drink less insurance industry kool-aid.

    56. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Mitchell314 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Basic to somebody who has more experience than a high schooler. What's that motif from that well know basic education cartoon (the one about a certain 'arcane' school bus)? Get dirty, make mistakes?

      --
      I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
    57. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      Partially, like real roots which sometimes interconnect, but mainly I think the second is individual cowardice, while the first is bureaucratic paranoia.

    58. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by tnk1 · · Score: 3

      Well, I didn't make school the way it is, I certainly didn't vote in the morons making these rules, but she's pretty unobservant if she thinks that school grounds is a place to start getting loosey goosey with exothermic reactions. Take it somewhere else or at least ask if you can do it in class where your teacher is the one who might get fired and not you.

    59. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      What about folding his hands and saying a prayer? Basically anything out of the ordinary is suspect.

    60. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I created a homemade explosive in high school, based on conversations with other students about what they had heard and how to do it. What I thought would happen is that it would make some slight pops and bangs, ala those miniature "poppers" you could throw at the ground that were popular at the time. Turns out the stuff was amazingly sensitive and a contact explosive and relatively pretty strong. It didn't seem to do anything so I let it dry out some more in case it was slighlty damp. Then when I was tapping filter paper to pour into a bottle it exploded. No damage to me but I think I was really lucky, the hard plastic bottle was shattered and it felt like I was slapped hard in the face, which was blackened except for where my eyeglasses were.

      No teacher supervision, no parental supervision, just some tiny amounts of simple chemicals which were easily obtainable. Maybe part of childhood is just the process of surviving to adulthood and learning what not to do.

    61. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      It's hard to learn from mistakes if you're not allowed to make any mistakes, or if your first mistake means it's all over.

    62. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by lightknight · · Score: 2

      It bothers me more than so many 'authorities' are submitting their wills to fear of the unknown.

      Mind you, if I worked for the CIA, I'd be absolutely tickled at the idea of some power (foreign or native...not like they care these days) were scared shitless that there might be a bomb hidden in every tree on their way to work, or that mosquitoes might be loaded with a neuro-toxin and let loose near their window...as that level of paranoia is something the CIA works HARD to achieve in targets. Still, as a citizen of the USA, for what little that's worth these days...Americans going insane without reason could potentially cause problems for me in the future at an inopportune moment, so as such, it does constitute a problem for me, no matter my displeasure with how things are being run, or how arrogant, blasphemous, and illusory their wanna-be authorities might be.

      So, here's some advice, and feel free not to take it, as I 'win' either way: stop chasing after unknown unknowns. Unknown unknowns, or rather, attempting to protect against all of them using vague laws and understandings, creates more problems than it solves. Contemplating unknown unknowns, attempting to calculate all possibilities, is an act of madness; God might be able to do it, and survive...but anyone less than Him is going to get hurt (I have); stick to what is real, what is known, and do not let your mind(s) think thoughts which you cannot prove are true; finally, learn that everything is on a case by case basis, subject to present information and understanding, and that there is no loss in realizing or admitting that you have made a mistake (the loss is purely a construction of uncomfortable emotions...even in cases of great financial or material loss, the emotional burden is the real problem, I believe).

      This experiment, this girl...should never have been charged. The law quoted was designed, perhaps, with the intent to protect, but instead harmed. The harm has been somewhat reversed, but it shows a serious lack of concern for exceptions and understanding. As such, it should be rewritten, amended, or what have you, to prevent further damage.

      A much larger concern, unwritten here, is the cold water that this throws on science in this country, at a time when it is not needed. Yes, I am aware of the petty fights between organized religion and those purportedly representing science, as well as the straw-men and debater's tricks used by both sides. I will not digress into that mire at this time. My issue is one of America failing its progeny: once upon a time, the maths and science, I believe, were given second billing in education to other subjects; a little satellite called Sputnik, launched over our heads, changed that, and the US mandated that maths and science be taught; I am now looking at a country in decline, as the sciences have become optional, and it is possible for someone to graduate from high school, possibly even college, without learning even a modicum of Physics, Biology, or Chemistry; and it shows...especially compared to children of other countries, who have learned maths and sciences, to say nothing of second or third languages, which put our nation to shame. How can our inventors invent, if they have no knowledge of electricity, or mechanics, or algebra? Perhaps we will maintain our level of independence by continuing to import talent from abroad, or perhaps we can rely on the things we are good at, like marketing, and 'out slogan' our country's competitors?

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    63. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I come from we play cowboys and good guys...

    64. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      If they showed any tolerance, it wouldn't be a zero-tolerance policy.

      You asswipes demanded this, now you got it. Deal.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    65. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and trickles down to your motorcycle cop, who's more interested in making his/her quota then actually helping people and serving justice.

      I have no clue about this whatsoever, but I can imagine the following:
      A call is placed about an accident. A cop is dispatched to resolve the issue. All parties are present.
      Now two things can happen:
      If the cop files a report where one party was punished for causing the accident: OK
      If the cop files a report where no one was punished, he faces problems at work (pissed boss, suspension without pay, malcompetence claims, a mark on the permanent record, ...)

      In this hypothetical case, I think most people would choose to let Other People's Problems remain just that: Other People's Problems.

    66. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by interkin3tic · · Score: 2

      What? There are plenty of us who don't want zero tolerance. As I said, the schools have taken it and run with it. I'm not a school, if there's any confusion there. That many of the shrill parents and politicians want it isn't the whole story: it's approaching a point where most schools do have some degree of zero tolerance. I've known it was a stupid idea since I was in high school, I've never been an asswipe who demanded it.

    67. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You gotta admit, we beat the Russians to the moon. OK, they beat us into space. But putting a man on the moon is what really counts.

      Soviet was first with animal in space, man in space, woman in space and unmanned mission to moon.
      The reason you think that putting a man on the moon is what counts is because it allows you to call yourself a winner for an accomplishment that you personally didn't take part in. (Probably.)

    68. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by TuringCheck · · Score: 1

      Got caught by my mom after a rocket explosion left one of my hands completely covered in black soot. That happened after I regained vision, hearing, rummaged through the debris and headed home (too soon after the bang! it seems).
      Never found the gerbil "riding" in rockets's nose though...

    69. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly that's what she was trying to make for AL-queda and the IRA, how could homeland security have missed this???

    70. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by TuringCheck · · Score: 1

      In the end the students were given detentions for taking the sodium without asking, and I don't think anything happened to the teacher (who was a great teacher in general). In today's absurd educational environment the teacher probably would have been fired and the straight A students (one of whom is now an aeronautical engineer and the other a doctor) expelled and their future academic careers ruined...

      So it's better to not get caught. Worked for me. Every time. 25 years ago...
      I can swear that our principal looked straight at me after filling the high school with smoke but he couldn't prove a thing. I even wiped my fingerprints off the bottles - just in case :-)

    71. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      She got to go to space camp because somebody felt sorry for her, somebody who had a similar brush in with the law under laxer standards. I believe the word to use here would be: irony.

      Also, I'm amazed that the school is still debating whether to let her back in. I think somebody there needs to be shown the door ASAP and can perhaps find a better fit administrating a mental institution rather than a school.

    72. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My chemistry teacher lit the ceiling on fire in his elemental sodium demonstration. A few months later I lost most of the hair on the back of my hand in the "light a hydrogen balloon on fire" experiment. And then towards the end of the year we learned how to distill crystallized iodine and were encouraged to lay the crystals out in the walkways for people to step on. He was definitely one of the most fun teachers I've had.

    73. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Synerg1y · · Score: 1

      At this point, doing anything other than exactly what the school tells you is grounds for expulsion: senior pranks, fighting, bad science experiments, racist remarks can all get you expelled. And getting expelled for non-rich people can ruin lives. I get that the safety of the kids is important, but I can't help feel like the people responsible for that don't have any kids of their own.

      A slashdot example of this would be an IT manager trying to run an IT department w an MBA and no IT experience.

    74. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by spiritplumber · · Score: 2

      I was in school when the whole "zero tolerance" was starting to happen. My mom (who is otherwise an incredibly prim and proper lady in a way that she wouldn't be out of place a hundred years ago) made it very clear to the vice-principal, who happened to be the school official she was talking with during a normal parent-teacher conference, that her policy with regards to zero tolerance was defenestration. She went on to say "That means I throw you out of the nearest window". I only realized twenty years later what difference that made (She wasn't kidding, either!)

      --
      Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
    75. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      I can swear that our principal looked straight at me after filling the high school with smoke but he couldn't prove a thing.

      Well, there's another thing that has more or less gone the by the wayside in today's paranoia... proof (let alone intent!)

    76. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Nefarious+Wheel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bad idea yes, but being kicked out of school and retorted to police isn't a proportional punishment.

      The right answer would be a figurative slap on the wrist for "borrowing" chemicals from the lab, and some detention exercises to calculate the reaction results, and the pressures/temperatures generated in the containment vessel.

      Yes, this. Punishment designed to correct, not a reaction based on anger.

      Kids like this are not the ones you want to filter out of the system.

      --
      Do not mock my vision of impractical footwear
    77. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm in Europe and I don't think he's wrong. School is not far from prison and I'd expect a harsh reaction from most schools anywhere, it is only the overkill in bringing local law enforcement into the mix that I'd expect from Americans.

    78. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now, she gets a reward to go to space camp. That's not quite an appropriate message either.

      Think of it as compensation for being put through the stress and trauma of being expelled & charged with a felony.

    79. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Macgrrl · · Score: 1

      In high school chemistry we had a teacher who used to do what he referred to as the "Challenger experiment" using a milo can with a couple of holes in it (one for a gas hose and one to provide a designated leak that could be lit like a pilot light.

      The experiment showed the exothermic reaction when the proportion of gasses reached a certain point and suddenly collapsed making water. The lid of the can would generally fly off (there would be a ticking noise beforehand as the can started expanding under pressure) and there were dings in various science lab rooms where he had done the demonstration.

      --
      Sara
      Designer, Gamer, Macgrrl in an XP World
    80. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      What is not considered a "unauthorized science experiment"? Doesn't that cover pretty much anything someone could do?

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    81. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by iamhassi · · Score: 0

      Isn't everything considered "an unauthorized science experiment"?

      "No officer I was not speeding, I was conducting an unauthorized science experiment on acceleration!"

      "No your honor I did not stab a person, I was conducting an unauthorized science experiment on human anatomy!"

      etc, etc. This teen could have very easily hurt herself and others, and if she did the school would have been sued for millions for allowing her to conduct "an unauthorized science experiment".

      I'm glad she was expelled and I'm glad the police investigated. Don't think she should go to jail forever but this is serious, not a joke, and should have serious consequences. If you wanna do dumb things, do it at home, blow things up in your backyard, set the kitchen on fire, I don't care, just don't do it at school, the mall, etc.

      Or should we send every teen who blows something up at school to space camp?

      If anyone wants to see what one of these look like click here, it's easy to see why someone would think this is a bomb with the loud bang and good amount of smoke.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    82. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Runaway1956 · · Score: 1

      So - you're more interested in liability, than education?

      Oh yeah - it IS the schools responsibility to TEACH the kids how to experiment safely. Responsibility - what a concept!

      Like I said - a mild scolding.

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    83. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by quarterbuck · · Score: 1

      Actually this is exactly how a drain cleaner works. It is mostly just Sodium Hydoxide (Lye) and Aluminum powder. Sodium Hydroxide is dual purpose, firstly ,it forms soap on contact with fats and secondly it reacts with Aluminum to produce heat. There is some Sodium Nitrate or equivalent to absorb Hydrogen, but otherwise the whole thing is mostly Lye.
      What the kids were / are doing is accelerating the process by throwing in an Aluminum foil. There are no poisonous gases and there is no real "explosion" - if it were, you wouldn't pour it down the drain.
      Any explosion is a function of pressure generated by the gases and absolute worst case, the bottle would spray through a leak and throw lye over your face. But in an Open area and with small amount of ingredients, it is probably safer than lighting a match or throwing mentos in a bottle of soda.

      --
      http://slashdot.org/submission/1062723/Cheap-mobile-data-plan?art_pos=2
    84. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by DocMAME · · Score: 1

      I have seen bottles stretched to 3x their normal size, and some blown inside out... depending on how violently the chemicals react there can be quite a bit of pressure beyond a small leak. I have also seen bottles blow over 30 feet in the air... these are not Mentos bombs or lit matches...

    85. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      You asswipes demanded this, now you got it. Deal.

      WTF? Who are you talking to?

    86. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by RespekMyAthorati · · Score: 1

      Yes, she did something stupid. Stupid enough to warrant a detention.

    87. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by cusco · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You must have been a really boring kid, we did a lot of things a **LOT** worse than this, and those of us who were caught got suspended for a couple of days. Of course we were white kids in a small town (and that house didn't burn down) so of course there was no public outcry.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    88. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by cusco · · Score: 1

      So probably they should expel any student carrying a Bic lighter. I saw photos of someone whose lighter was set off by the spark from his arc welder while it was in his shirt pocket. Not a pretty sight.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    89. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by richlv · · Score: 1

      we burned all kind of crap to produce smoke, poured acid on plants (we had to water them...) and did lots of other things i don't remember anymore.
      every now and then we got in trouble. in the worst cases, parents were asked to come to school, but even that was very rare (and thus worked fairly well :) )

      even bringing home-made weapons to school (shurikens ! ninjas were tops !) only resulted in them being confiscated and parents notified.

      --
      Rich
    90. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by kermidge · · Score: 1

      Strict observance of zero-tolerance means two things immediately and one later:

      1. Absolute CYA for the adults.
      2. Absolutely no thought or judgement needed by those adults.
      3. A nation of compliant organic labor units, consumers, voters, and cannon fodder.

      Some have pointed out that one problem is the number of lawyers involved in politics or another stemming from 9/11. Yes, they have an effect, but this trend started long before.

      Between a third and a half of all congress people have been lawyers or those with formal knowledge of law. By itself that has not been an over-riding problem.

      Consider that many of the Founders practiced law, had formal education in law, or read deeply of it. The difference is that most read widely and deeply of the classics, natural philosophy and economics. They discussed what they had read, and applied their reading to the world they lived in. Today? Not so much. (By '77 less than half of American adults read any books at all. With congress critters it's higher, but not by much.

      My parents' generation in high school were required to take at least one year of Latin and often Greek, even in rural schools. Texts were the classics, and class discussions centered around them and the issues inside. By the time I got to high school (class of '65) Latin wasn't even offered (at the time I was glad of it; now, no.)

      We've dumbed down education since the war, traded that education for indoctrination, and continue to reap the consequences. As Walt Kelly pointed out in the '50s, "We've met the enemy and he is us."

    91. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Theranthrope · · Score: 2

      Wow. What a textbook example of a concern troll.
      You sound like every member of the legion of small-minded school administrators, petty bureaucrats, complacent autocrats, and religious dogmatists that have been ever retarding the expansion of knowledge and technological progress, since before there was there was even a way to record human history.

    92. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by sjames · · Score: 1

      I would think education makes more sense than pubnishment. It ws an honest mistake and an error of youth (did you spring forth as a fully mature adult?)

      OTOH, the prosecutor cannot make such a claim. He is supposed to be a fully mature adult.

    93. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by xenobyte · · Score: 2

      Most schools have strict rules against bullying, and yet it occurs in almost every school daily. In many places it is not only tolerated but actually encouraged as 'motivation' or 'school spirit' when the jocks gets a free pass in tormenting geeks or other outcasts. This directly caused the Columbine school shooting and despite the lessons learned nothing changed.

      On Columbine they denied all accusations of school supported bullying, but ended up having to admit the existence of a cruel system where both jocks and top students were given free reins in 'showing school spirit', which included daily bullying of outcasts and other misfits, some one which became the Trench-coat Mafia, from which two went postal. Teachers often witnessed this bullying and either did nothing or encouraged it in various ways. The school also participated through severely skewed differential treatment. The outcast group was consistently denied access to rooms for their clubs (gaming, role playing, music/film clubs) but no less than 13 rooms were made available to church groups despite the federal laws banning church activities on public school grounds.

      In other words - school do as they please and if possible make up rules to protect the status quo.

      --
      "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    94. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Sabriel · · Score: 1

      School systems designed by "morons" to be "the way it is" are unlikely to produce "kids her age that are well aware".

      We should be pleased as to how many strive for it anyways.

    95. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We teach these concepts to middle school students where I work, they are not beyond the grasp of a high school student.

    96. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by iamhassi · · Score: 1
      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    97. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      You must have been a really boring kid, we did a lot of things a **LOT** worse than this, and those of us who were caught got suspended for a couple of days. Of course we were white kids in a small town (and that house didn't burn down) so of course there was no public outcry.

      things were different back in the day before kids started killing 20 kids at school and bringing actual bombs to school.

      World has changed, it's not the 50s or 60s or 70s or 80s or 90s anymore. After Columbine and 9/11 shit got real. Can't just set off bombs in public places and expect police not to show an interest.

      Like I said, I think the punishment fit the crime, we don't need every student setting bombs off at school and calling them "unauthorized science experiment". And I love how they said "she's a honor roll student", as if that means getting a good grade means the rules don't apply? And yes, setting off bombs is actually prohibited in the rules: "Section 7.05 of the school's conduct code, Lauderdale says, which mandates expulsion for any "student in possession of a bomb (or) explosive device... while at a school (or) a school-sponsored activity... unless the material or device is being used as part of a legitimate school-related activity or science project conducted under the supervision of an instructor."

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    98. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by cusco · · Score: 1

      "shit got real."

      No, shit descended into fantasyland. Ever see a Bic lighter blow up? Is that idiot DA going to charge every kid carrying a lighter with a felony? The major difference between the 1950, '60s and '70s and today is that too many people watch television fanatically, and between the '80s and '90s and today is that the same idiots now believe everything the boob tube tells them.

      Be afraid. Be very afraid. Because your television tells you to be. Duct tape your windows shut, pick your children up from school, teach them about Stranger Danger, stay away from public venues, inform Fatherland Security about your suspicious Muslim neighbor, and watch your television for updates!

      You rather obviously don't know how people in most of the world lives, and probably couldn't handle it if you did. I lived in Peru in the 1980s, a place and time where terrorists actually existed and actually were active. Know what? Children played in the street, people went shopping in the market, kids walked to school unattended, people rode the bus to work, grandparents fawned over babies, newlyweds fucked like rabbits, teens went to discos, and life went on. On the news we heard about the Sendero Luminoso blowing up a school or the MRTA shooting up a police station, but there was nothing for us to do about it and life went on. The ESL institute where I worked, which doubled as the US consulate, had a bomb go off during classes, we went back to work the next day and life went on.

      This girl's rather obviously not going to blow up the school, anything more than a suspension and some detention is absurd. Anyone thinking the police need to get involved and she needs to be charged with a felony is beyond ridiculous.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    99. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had not seen before allegation of stolen supplies ... if a theft occured is that not a problem worthy of attention?

    100. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Schools do not have zero-tolerance policies against weapons, considering that the definition of "weapon" is something that you can hurt somebody else with.

      Each and every time I entered a school, I was a walking arsenal by that definition. I had shoes. I had shoelaces. I had pens. I had keys. I usually had enough coins to use as a fistload. Given a real zero-tolerance policy, they would have taken one look at me and barred entry.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    101. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by nobodie · · Score: 1

      And fear, after 9/11 you all got shit scared of any and everything. It's heartbreaking to watch my fellow Americans shit their pants when someone scares them about silly stuff like this.

      My older brother and I used to fire off a small brass mortar every night to take the flag down during flag week. Did the neighbors shit their pants? Hell no, they bitched to my dad who straightened our asses out and closed the production down. Of course my brother still has that mortar 40 years later.

      --
      Subversion of spatial scale luxury decoration ideas.
    102. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      I thought I had read elsewhere that the chemicals she used were from school. I can't confirm, but given the tiny amounts that isn't suspension or expulsion worthy- its worthy of a slap on the wrist for not getting permission.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    103. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by cusco · · Score: 1

      My dad built a tennis ball and white gas mortar with us. We used to set it off when we went camping, 4th of July weekend, and pretty much any other excuse we could come up with.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    104. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      So - you're more interested in liability, than education?

      How much education will a school that has been shut down because it has been sued into bankruptcy do? How many teachers will be lost when just one liability suit is lost for a couple million dollars? You can't teach anyone if you can't hire teachers.

      Oh yeah - it IS the schools responsibility to TEACH the kids how to experiment safely.

      Now say something I disagree with. Having a student ask an authority figure at a school if it is safe to mix X and Y and then that student running off and doing it on their own is NOT teaching them to experiment safely, it's accepting responsibility for the inevitable failures the student experiences, without having anyone who knows better on hand to stop them.

    105. Re:Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Curiosity is a measure of intelligence. If you're not curious, it tends to correlate with you not being intelligent.

    106. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      you did that at home, not at school. Go to school and fire off a mortar and see what happens, then complain because it's a "science experiment"

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    107. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      This girl's rather obviously not going to blow up the school, anything more than a suspension and some detention is absurd. Anyone thinking the police need to get involved and she needs to be charged with a felony is beyond ridiculous.

      is that obvious? Should kids be allowed to set off fireworks at school too? Exactly how large a bomb should kids be able to set off at school without permission or supervision?

      Expulsion is appropriate, calling the police is appropriate. I don't think there should be jail time involved, but yes the police should be at least notified.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    108. Re: Good to see intelligence rewarded for once. by cusco · · Score: 1

      An M-80 is excessive, I might support expulsion for that. Maybe. Suspension, detention, and paying to fix damages (there will be damages with an M-80) would probably be more appropriate unless they deliberately attempted to injure someone.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  2. If that what it takes to get into Space Camp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then I should have my own Moon base considering the "experiments" I did at that age!

    1. Re:If that what it takes to get into Space Camp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Experimenting with hallucinogenic drugs doesn't count.

  3. That is by houbou · · Score: 1

    amazing news, congrats for the kid.

  4. my son's friend is going to same camp by ei4anb · · Score: 1

    I'll ask him to say hello and give our good wishes. October Sky is one of our favourite films and let's hope Kiera does as well as Homer Hickam did despite his early escapades.

  5. Total Win by Murdoch5 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm glad to see that at least some people have morals. Wanting to experiment with science and NOT hurting anyone in the process shouldn't be met by being kicked out of school, she's getting what she deserves.

    1. Re:Total Win by Bigby · · Score: 2

      I would go as far to say, if she accidentally hurt someone, she still shouldn't have been kicked out of school. Intent is a major factor there. If a football player accidentally injures another player, should he get kicked off the team? Kicked out of school?

    2. Re:Total Win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Morals? Ha, try elementary sense. No sane person should ever consider prosecuting someone else over obviously non-malicious and non-disruptive actions. Society only stands to lose from such pointless alarmism.

    3. Re:Total Win by Antipater · · Score: 1

      Wanting to experiment with science and NOT hurting anyone in the process shouldn't be met by being kicked out of school, she's getting what she deserves.

      Given that currently she's still kicked out of school, those two statements don't seem to match up.

      --
      Everything is better with chainsaws.
    4. Re:Total Win by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah people have turn into such pussies, to quote Clint Eastwood. In my family adults are responsible for all actions of our minors.
      I really don't care what policy says if it is causing a problem to hell with the policy! It's that total lack of decent judgement or fear of taking responsibility which is the problem.

      I'm glad she got spotted by the NASA engineer!

    5. Re:Total Win by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I'm glad to see that at least some people have morals. Wanting to experiment with science and NOT hurting anyone in the process shouldn't be met by being kicked out of school

      While that's a true statement - it's completely irrelevant in this case.
       
      She wasn't doing any kind of reasonable "science experiment" - she mixing together chemicals as recommended by a friend to make a smoke bomb. She had no idea what the chemicals were, no real idea of the possible or probable outcomes, etc... etc... About as "scientific" as Russian Roulette. Let's not elevate her behavior into something it wasn't.

    6. Re:Total Win by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      Thats very valid, almost anything has inherent risk.

    7. Re:Total Win by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      She was practising science, you don't always have to know the outcome or all the steps to have a valid scientific method. The fact she at least could put things together and get a result that is real is more then can be said for other entire subject areas, mainly religion.

    8. Re:Total Win by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      She was practising science

      Not by any useful or rational definition of the word. You want to pervert it, go right ahead, but at least have the balls to admit you're doing so. Or realize that you're ignorant and using a word that does not mean what you think it does.
       

      you don't always have to know the outcome or all the steps to have a valid scientific method

      If you don't have a theory - then by definition it isn't the scientific method. I retract my earlier statement about 'balls', you're just ignorant and willing redefine words in order to reach a pre-ordained political conclusion.

    9. Re:Total Win by cusco · · Score: 1

      Take an empty 16 gauge shotgun shell, fill it full of black powder, put a dime in the end, fold the crimps over it, and duct tape it tight. Poke a hole in it, stick a sparkler in the hole, and light it. Set a trash can on top. It can (and did) blow the trash can onto the roof of the school. I was lucky enough not to get caught (the janitor knew who did it, but he seems to have been a lot brighter than these administrators). Should I have been charged with a felony?

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    10. Re:Total Win by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'll bet she has learned a few important things at this point. Some about chemistry, a few about politics and sociology, a few about the way the legal system (doesn't) work in the U.S., and that she needs to take her friend's advice with a pound of salt in the future.

      I'm guessing she won't do it again, which would be the only legitimate goal of any punishment at this point, aso that's covered as is. Anything else would just be petty and hateful.

  6. in my class by slashmydots · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In my high school chemistry class, we made gunpowder (which someone accidentally shattered a mortar and pestle with) and hydrogen mini-rockets (we filled ours with butane and put a hole in the ceiling tiles) and that was called a chapter in the book, not a crime. Though unlike the media, I think the difference isn't that I'm white, it's that that school district and police department is full of complete morons.

    1. Re:in my class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Fuck you for bringing race into this.

      That is all.

      Since you have no reading comprehension let me spell it out for you. The previous post said that the media is the one pushing the race angle and the poster's own opinion is that it's a case of incompetence (and I would additionally infer the poster was talking about the zero tolerance policy the district passed).

    2. Re:in my class by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 0

      The original story brought race into it: It said she was getting all this harassment while a while kid who accidentally shot and killed his brother with a BB gun was getting no charges. I think it is absolutely imperative to acknowledge that race could be a contributing factor to the severity of peoples reactions. I'm glad that reasonable people have seen this for what it really is, and the young lady is getting an opportunity instead of being held back. Also: shame on your for bringing the "F" word into it... ;)

      --
      Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    3. Re:in my class by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      I think the difference isn't that I'm white, it's that that school district and police department is full of complete morons.

      Let me guess: did not go to school in Florida?

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    4. Re:in my class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my high school chemistry class...

      I have a vivid memory of a few students (I will not confirm direct involvement) tossing a decent-sized hunk of sodium out into the courtyard adjacent to the chem lab in the middle of a seattle rain storm. :-}

    5. Re:in my class by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      Bingo! Lol, Wisconsin.

    6. Re:in my class by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      As it has been stated, all other media coverage of the initial incident weasel-word-suggested that it was because of race. Some actually just plain stated it even.

    7. Re:in my class by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Was it black powder or a more modern nitro cellulose based one? While I didn't get to do those exact things there were some rather fun "experiments" we did. There was the create 1 mol of a random precipitate where the teacher screwed up and my partner and I got one that didn't precipitate but instead made the toxic gas hydrogen sulfide (I think that was it I could be wrong as it was a long time ago). It was only after we had started the reaction that the teacher announced that whom ever had that one to not do it. We piped up that we had run the experiment and didn't get a precipitate but a bad smelling yellow liquid and were going to try a different method. The teacher pulled the fire alarm and everyone got the rest of the day off of school. There was also the thermite demonstration where the rock in the bottom of the flower pot melted and molten iron came spilling out the bottom onto the table and floor setting the carpet on fire that the teacher did. I do wonder if the frozen puddle of iron is still there. Finally there was the figure out what a random salt was and we got one that had some rather violent reactions that broke some glassware, sent a cork shooting up to brake a ceiling tile, and had combustion that seemed to border more on detonation. All in all it was a good class and it wasn't a great lab unless something ended up on fire.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    8. Re:in my class by pongo000 · · Score: 1

      We made nitrogen triiodide and copper acetylide...both very explosive, both very fun to play with. No one got hurt, no one got arrested either. Science now in schools is so watered down that they don't even have chemistry lab anymore in most public schools...instead, students watch the teacher do the lab and then write about it. Hardly a robust science education...and everyone wonders why we can't get more students involved in science?

    9. Re: in my class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know what's the worst part? The number of people who deny systematic discrimination exists. Every time a study comes out showing blacks and other minorities get more jail time on average for the same crimes (or in many cases go to jail at all for crimes their white counterparts get a slap on the wrist for), the usual suspects will make vague denunciations of the problem, and then whenever an individual example comes to light, try to make others the badguys for pointing out racial injustice and/or want insurmountable evidence that THIS INDIVIDUAL case was an example of racism before they'll even consider it.

      Then they'll usually engage in some light victim blaming, just to spice things up.
       
        You know what I call those people? Racists. Sure, they might not be as bad KKK members burning crosses, but they sure are doing their best to ignore racial equality issues.

    10. Re: in my class by Hardhead_7 · · Score: 2

      You know what's the worst part? The number of people who deny systematic discrimination exists. Every time a study comes out showing blacks and other minorities get more jail time on average for the same crimes (or in many cases go to jail at all for crimes their white counterparts get a slap on the wrist for), the usual suspects will make vague denunciations of the problem, and then whenever an individual example comes to light, try to make others the badguys for pointing out racial injustice and/or want insurmountable evidence that THIS INDIVIDUAL case was an example of racism before they'll even consider it.

      Then they'll usually engage in some light victim blaming, just to spice things up.

      You know what I call those people? Racists. Sure, they might not be as bad KKK members burning crosses, but they sure are doing their best to ignore racial equality issues.

    11. Re:in my class by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

      Bingo! Lol, Wisconsin.

      Hmm, never been to Lol.

      Is that anywhere near Roflcopter?

      Oh, I slay me!

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    12. Re:in my class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my high school chemistry class, we made gunpowder (which someone accidentally shattered a mortar and pestle with) and hydrogen mini-rockets (we filled ours with butane and put a hole in the ceiling tiles) and that was called a chapter in the book, not a crime. Though unlike the media, I think the difference isn't that I'm white, it's that that school district and police department is full of complete morons.

      Bullshit. The difference is you did it under adult direction. This person created a Drano bomb at school without any adult supervision. That's extremely dangerous and should never be rewarded.

    13. Re:in my class by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      It was KNO3, sulfur, carbon, and sugar if I remember correctly.

    14. Re: in my class by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Minorities spending more time in jail doesn't show systematic discrimination. It just shows that minorities are predisposed to becoming criminals. EVERYONE knows that.

    15. Re:in my class by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      I agree as well. anybody can come up with an anecdote. I can come up with an example of a white person getting life in prison for defending themselves from a black armed robber while a black person got only 15 years for murdering an unarmed white man who did not even resist. And I'm in the south.
      This was clearly just good old fashioned incompetence.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    16. Re:in my class by sjames · · Score: 1

      Oh, I slay me!

      And a good thing too, with jokes like that.

  7. Nice by easyTree · · Score: 1

    It gives me a warm glow that things worked out this way.

    Now if the warden of a local maximum security prison were to start a crowd-funding campaign, I'd be willing to sponsor a short stay in jail for those that brought charges against this curious schoolgirl.

  8. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I believe rules are rules and you break them, you should be punished, not rewarded. In this case, thanks the publicity, she is greatly benefitting from breaking the rules.

    Congratulations, you are exactly what is wrong with the world. Rules are made for people, they are not sacred.

  9. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Because fear of jail time, hassle from overly-aggressive authority figures, being expelled, and being publicly embarrassed wasn't really a punishment at all?

  10. Homer Hickam is freakin' awesome. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've always had a high respect for Mr. Hickam, and I'm really glad to hear this is happening. Couple this with the viral video of the kid who told off his world history teacher, and you've the makings of a rebellion against the factory-style approach that politicians are foisting upon public education.

    This could get interesting, and for the better.

  11. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by kthreadd · · Score: 1

    Why is it so obvious that you should be punished for for breaking a rule? Just actiling like a robot and punishing her clearly wouldn't have made anything better for anyone, cerainly not for her.

  12. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When does following the rules pay off?

  13. Re:Build a bomb ... by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

    Yup, even though you are hiding behind being an A.C., those are pretty much my thoughts too, although you forgot to mention to call it an "experiment" rather that a risk to the safety of others.

    --
    I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
  14. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I donated to one of the funds for her.

    Eat your heart out, shithead.

  15. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by WillgasM · · Score: 1, Interesting

    What's wrong with the world? Really? As much as I love to fly in the face of authority, I still think rules serve a purpose in society. I broke plenty of rules as a young'n, but I managed to not get caught. If I did get caught, I didn't expect to be sent to camp. She's curious, and that should be encouraged. She blatantly broke rules and got caught, that should be punished. There is a happy medium somewhere between prison and all-expense-paid vacation. Rewarding this girl for breaking rules will only drive her to a life of politics.

  16. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Antipater · · Score: 1

    I believe rules are rules and you break them, you should be punished

    You know she's still expelled, right? Space Camp is a consolation prize.

    --
    Everything is better with chainsaws.
  17. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You must be from Europe or some shit region. This is America and rules were made broken. Sorry you are so jealous.

  18. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Bigby · · Score: 5, Funny

    Einstein broke Newton's rules. Is that bad?

  19. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by onkelonkel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I believe rules are rules and you break them, you should be punished, not rewarded." - Congratulations, you have met the requirements for German citizenship.

    Her being punished for an "unauthorised" science experiment will tend to discourage curiosity and scientific inquiry in other children. This is bad for America. By rewarding her we encourage curiosity and scientific inquiry, which is good for America.

    We could even get away from the mindless "zero tolerance" crap and maybe send a nuanced message. Send her to Space Camp, but have her write a paper on the risks of experimenting with homemade explosives and what safety measures she should have taken, but didn't and how it could be done more safely next time.

    --
    None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  20. Not even that complicated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The difference between now and then is that the business of government is twice as large. The larger the government, the more "crimes" per year, the more "criminals" per population, and the more "justification" for the next expansion of power and revenue.

  21. Should have been punished, but not charged by BitwizeGHC · · Score: 4, Informative

    What she made wasn't really a science experiment; it was a "bottle bomb" consisting of mixing tinfoil and Drano in a Coke bottle. These explosives are well-known among schoolyard pranksters and can cause serious injury (chemical burns, loss of fingers, etc.)

    It's not politically correct to say, but if she was cooking one of these up on school property with her friends without teacher oversight, she should have been punished. As long as she didn't actually hurt anyone, though, it should have amounted into a few days' detention at worst.

    That said, I'm happy she's going to space camp and that this sort of mischief might develop into a real interest in science.

    --
    N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
    1. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Hell we were doing those experiments in my 7th grade chemistry class where chemistry was basically like a cook book with little understanding. We would have a test tube with acid in it, drop in some aluminum foil, put a balloon over it to fill it with hydrogen. Tie off the balloon attach a string so it floats up and touch with a lit match on a yard stick and have a little chuckle at the pop and fire.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    2. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by dywolf · · Score: 1

      it's not an explosive any more than a popping balloon is.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    3. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by PRMan · · Score: 1

      A three-day suspension would have been reasonable, with a warning that any sort of experiment like this must involve the science teacher for safety reasons. Expulsion, arrest and criminal charges are ridiculous.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    4. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      it's not an explosive any more than a popping balloon is.

      Yes it is. Aside from the fact that a balloon doesn't involve dangerous sharp or caustic parts flying in all directions, popping a balloon doesn't involve a chemical reaction. This draino bomb does indeed involve a chemical reaction. In that sense it is little different than any other chemical reaction. True, the draino-aluminum reaction is slower as pressure builds up, but in the end there is a dangerous violent burst (intentionally) caused by a chemical reaction.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    5. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's not politically correct to say, but if she was cooking one of these up on school property with her friends without teacher oversight, she should have been punished.

      That actually is the politically correct viewpoint. The conservative viewpoint here is "kids will be kids" with an emphasis on learning via hands on experimentation. This story seems to be putting people on the opposite side of the fence than what they're used to which is interesting. Liberals are seeing what a nanny state looks like and conservatives are seeing the risks and potential dangers associated with lack of regulation.

    6. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by someone1234 · · Score: 1

      Exploding hydrogen is more than a popping balloon. It can burn you. Also it generates toxic dihydrogen monoxide. In a closed quarter that could be lethal if inhaled.

      --
      Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
    7. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For the dumbfucks out there, dihidrogen monoxide is water. It will also be quite hard (as in you'd really have to try very hard, which includes trapping it in a high-O2 atmosphere) to get a large enough explosion out of what she did to actually get hurt.

    8. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Yebyen · · Score: 1

      Ahh, the good old Toxic Dihydrogen Monoxide gag. Common household chemical, The True #1 leading cause of drowning deaths, it's even found naturally in our own bodies.

      --
      Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
    9. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. To charge her as an adult is ridiculous, but equally ridiculous is to believe her claim that she thought it would just smoke a little. I searched for 'drano aluminum' and 'toilet cleaner aluminum' and a couple other variations. For each search the first matches were instructions on making bombs accompanied by videos showing them blowing up.

    10. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I did something similar as a kid, drano and foil in a coke bottle, but it wasn't an explosive because you didn't close off the top and instead you put a balloon there which would be filled with hydrogen.

      Of course my mom still freaked out. But that was because of using drano.

    11. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lighting up a hydrogen balloon does, in fact produce a chemical reaction. I lost half the hair on my hand when what I was lighting it with was too short.

    12. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the previous post said nothing about lighting a hydrogen balloon, only about popping a balloon. And most lighter than air balloons are inert helium balloons, not hydrogen balloons. You might as well suddenly talked about lighting a gunpowder filled balloon. Beside, your an A.C., so no one really cares if you burn yourself or not.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    13. Re:Should have been punished, but not charged by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My hand over your mouth and nose is probably a little less toxic than your stupidity. Go drink a bottle of acid.

  22. Back in the day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm glad I grew up when I did.. if I even did 1/3 of the crap today that I did back in my childhood, I wouldn't be in federal prison, I'd be in Guantanamo... Everything from making real IED's (not bottle cap explosions / minor pipebombs.. but real explosives), to self-learning the practices of SERE.. it would have been portrayed that I was being taught by a terrorist network.

    In the bid for ratings, the media conglomorate keeps sensationlizing the bad stuff, instilling fear into the majority of the American public, while giving a reason to the lunatics of today to go "shoot up a school" for their 5 minutes of fame. This in turns leads to almost no resistance for the government to, one the minor spectrum, bend our rights, and on the other end of the spectrum, do away with them altogether, while we, the American public, agree with what they're doing since it "protects" us.

    Looking back, I'm kinda glad that I learned what I did, when I did, if I ever need to use it again - should the unthinkable happen (ie: Police state).

  23. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by dragon-file · · Score: 5, Informative
    I dont think you know who Homer Hickam is. Homer was a kid who grew up in a mining town where either you graduated high school and went to the coal mines or you got out on a football scholarship. He had a curiosity about space and rockets that could almost be described as fanaticism. His farther didn't support him, his friends initially didn't support him and only one person encouraged him, his teacher Mrs. Riley.

    He performed countless experiments throughout his high school days most of which were dangerous but he never gave up.

    He eventually graduated high school and went on to Virgina Tech and got a BS in Industrial engineering.

    He then went into the military and got into NASA and I'm sure I'm missing things in between.

    The point is, after seeing who elected to send her to space camp, the reasons become clear and make sense.

    Homer Hickam

    --
    Whenever a player quits EVE to go play WoW, the Average IQ of both games increase.
  24. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by fazig · · Score: 2

    So it is ok to reward people that don't get caught?
    The charges were dropped but she didn't get rewarded by the authorities, the crowd funding project rewarded here, which is funded by 'people'. The same people that might have been on the jury during her day in court, which might also have said 'not guilty' considering all the circumstances.
    Rules are not set in stone, rules have to be able to be criticized and changed according to the circumstances. Just because a single rule was broken it doesn't justify a punishment that is out of the ordinary. She was charged with a felony, which is not a trivial offense.

  25. Zero tolerance for zero tolerance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's time we started making very loud and angry noises about zero tolerance being utterly unacceptable[1]. Students need the freedom to screw up in the pursuit of fooling around with some learning.

    Things need to be exploded, burnt, and launched. Children need to have the freedom to throw balls at each other, wrestle, and do other dangerous things. Criminalizing mistakes and foolishness is as near fascist behavior as I have ever heard.

    Tomfoolery for all, everywhere!

    [1] Don't make a false equivalency between things that look scary and acts that are harmful.

    1. Re:Zero tolerance for zero tolerance by spiritplumber · · Score: 2

      That's really on the parents to make it clear that they expect school administrators to administer. Further, make it clear that school administrators who act like shell scripts will be replaced with shell scripts.

      --
      Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
  26. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Comma much?

    It was once a rule that blacks couldn't drink from white water fountains. You seriously think a black man should be punished for getting a god damned drink? The bad example here is your response, implying that the system is perfect and that if everyone just followed the rules we'd have a perfect world. It don't work that way sister.

    In fact if you look around the business world, the wealthiest people on the planet got their place in history by breaking the rules. From Apple's IP theft from Xerox of the mouse and GUI to Wallstreet's billion dollar golden parachutes, rules were made to be broken.

    It's no surprise that the people making the rules tend to be the worst offenders, case in point, all three of the most recent US presidents have admitted to drug use at some time in their lives, from Clinton's "tried marijuana but did not inhale" to G.W.Bush's cocaine conviction to Obama's "enthusiastic" use of marijuana and cocaine in his college days as admitted in his 1995 book Dreams from my Father.

  27. Lots of fat white men by Murdoch5 · · Score: 0

    I fail to see how this frame proves it rob ford, lots of fat blond men look like him.

    1. Re:Lots of fat white men by kannibal_klown · · Score: 1

      I fail to see how this frame proves it rob ford, lots of fat blond men look like him.

      Wrong thread. This is about the space camp thing not the video thing.

    2. Re:Lots of fat white men by Murdoch5 · · Score: 1

      Ya it is :S I wonder how that happened.

  28. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by crakbone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think your confusing punishment with rehabilitation. This is a child that had bad judgement. She got her punishment, she got arrested, she got expelled, and she got charged with a felony. For a child those are all major. But on the other side she has been given a chance to push her energies into an area where she will not be endangering or causing heart attacks for school administrators. With children it is always better to drive the energy in the direction you want rather than straight up stop it.

  29. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by PRMan · · Score: 1

    If you want to see Homer Hickam's story, you can watch the excellent movie October Sky. In the movie, they definitely accidentally blow some stuff up while inventing rockets. And they got in trouble, but they didn't get expelled, jailed and have their lives ruined.

    --
    Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
  30. Re: I Think This Is A Bad Thing by joebagodonuts · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Are you sure she was the party exhibiting bad judgement? I'm not. I'm of the opinion the "authorities" in this case were the ones guilty if poor judgement.

    --
    "Give a woman two glasses of wine and some pad thai, and they'll agree to just about anything." the Sports Guy
  31. Re:You've got to be fucking kidding me by belthize · · Score: 1

    I direct your attention to the AC comment currently below yours:
    http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3779175&cid=43804491

    He has a much firmer grasp on reasonable in my opinion.

  32. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by WillgasM · · Score: 1

    Why can nobody understand the subtle, intricate differences between punishment and reward? She was playing with dangerous chemical reactions in the parking lot of her school. What part of that should be rewarded?
    I'm all for sending a science-curious young girl to space camp. We should encourage children to experiment. We should also make sure children know they shouldn't carry out dangerous experiments without proper precautions. What if she blinded herself and an handful of classmates? Seems that should be discouraged. In fact, maybe it should even make it against the rules.
    I just said she should be punished. Y'know, a stern talking to, maybe detention. Adult felony charges would be overkill. However, just because I think the prosecution is severely overreacting, doesn't mean I should retaliate by severely under-reacting. Doing so compromises your own ideals and might even make you a strawman for the opposition.

  33. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by dragon-file · · Score: 1

    Exactly! This is why Homer stepped in in this case. This kid probably reminded him of himself when he was that age. And he knows better than most that in this case what she needed was support not expulsion.

    --
    Whenever a player quits EVE to go play WoW, the Average IQ of both games increase.
  34. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This. Fazig is no better than the people who sicced the cops on this girl.

  35. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

    "I believe rules are rules and you break them, you should be punished, not rewarded." - Congratulations, you have met the requirements for German citizenship.

    I was going to say "you must be a Good German", but it amounts to the same thing.

    have her write a paper on the risks of experimenting with homemade explosives and what safety measures she should have taken, but didn't and how it could be done more safely next time

    And maybe a week's suspension of something. What the OP overlooks is that what people object to is not her being punished for doing something stupid and potentially dangerous, but the absurd severity of the threatened punishment. Arrest, felony charges, WTF? What the "authorities" put her through is a far greater crime than anything she did.

  36. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by fazig · · Score: 1

    Punishment, lecturing, reward - the differences sometimes are really subtle.
    When she is "forced" to learn about scientific methods at the Space Camp, it could be considered some kind of punishment, it would be similar to detention. An expensive form of detention, but since people pay with their spare money and not everyone paid through their taxes I don't see a problem.

  37. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by WillgasM · · Score: 1

    No, I'm saying she should get a fitting punishment rather than a sugar-coated felony. Getting the charges dropped is awesome, and along with an apology and policy reform, should have been the end of the story.
    Rather than felony charges and spacecamp, two opposing, exaggerated reactions trying to cancel each other out; how about detention, a reasonable, fitting punishment. Instead of greeting friends with a kiss on the lips and a kick in the balls, why not just shake hands.

  38. I hope the prick-incipal will... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...eat his hat for this! He must be turning red in his face like a ripe tomato.

  39. NASA Ames Research Center by iHambone · · Score: 2

    Liquid nitrogen will do the same thing.

    As an intern at NASA Ames during summer break, I thought it would be fun to do a little experiment on the expansion of gas inside a contained vessel. So I put a small amount of LN2 into a 2-liter cola bottle and set it in an unoccupied back parking lot surrounded by 3-story, nearly windowless buildings. As the LN2 changes to gaseous form, the bottle began to expand, almost in-noticeably. After a minute or two, the glued on, wrap around label snapped off, and few seconds later, I heard one of the loudest bangs that I have ever heard in my life.

    Before I knew what was happening, we were surrounded by MPs. But before the situation got out of hand, my Senior Researcher came out of the building to explain to the worried guards that this was merely a case of an ignorant intern forgetting to remove the cap before disposing of the harmless liquid. There were some stern looks, but that was the end of it. Unsurprisingly, I was not charged with a felony.

    Lesson learned: don't blow up things on NASA bases. I think I can live with that.

  40. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Roblimo · · Score: 2

    Note that this is Polk County, Florida. Out there they believe the earth is 6000 years old and that The Flintstones was a documentary.

    (I live one jurisdiction West, in Manatee County. We win't brilliant here, but most of us understand evolution and stuff like that.)

  41. Re: I Think This Is A Bad Thing by WillgasM · · Score: 1

    I'd wager that you're both right. One need not exclude the other.

  42. Obligatory Godwin by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You know who else liked to experiment?

    Mengele!

  43. Re:Build a bomb ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When Mentos are outlawed, only outlaws will have Mentos...
    the FreshMaker

  44. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by WillgasM · · Score: 2

    If it's a bad rule, get rid of the rule. This isn't a bad rule. Kids shouldn't be mixing caustic chemicals in their school parking lot. Experimenting is encouraged, but proper precautions are prerequisite. This isn't a case of civil disobedience.
    I'm glad you acknowledge that the system is broken. Upon that realization, I would prefer you take to fixing the system rather than accepting it as broken and praising those who've exploited it most successfully.

  45. Re: I Think This Is A Bad Thing by crakbone · · Score: 1

    I did not mean to say to insinuate it was unexpected. Children are children and bad judgement should be expected. What she did is to be expected of a child. The bad judgement is that it is not usually safe to be mixing chemicals with out a guardian in the area to oversee and I have no doubt she learned this lesson. I see the over reaction from the school administrator to be the whole problem. Instead of asking the child to not do experiments outside of the classroom (From the sounds of it the child had never caused any problems before) he went around the screaming the sky is falling. The kid popped a bottle get over it. Chastise and move on.

  46. So a gross miscarriage of justice is averted. Now it's time to sack all those involved.

    And while we are at it the same penalty should be administered to those who involved in charging Kaitlyn Hunt with two felony counts for having consensual lesbian sex with her high school mate.

    What is it about Florida anyway?

  47. Hickam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can find him at www.homerhickam.com

  48. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

    And Germany is known for its lack of scientific innovation...

  49. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by nbauman · · Score: 0

    The rocket pioneers were always one step ahead of the cops.

    I know I was.

  50. Same here... by tekrat · · Score: 1

    I lived very near Kennedy Airport (Rosedale Queens NY), and used to shoot Estes rockets at the airplanes!

    --
    If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
    1. Re:Same here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to work on your aim, comrade. (DISCLAIMER: This is a joke)

  51. Re:Fuck you for bringing in political correctness by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

    Although it's never happened before, theoretically a white civil rights group could exist and be an actual non-racist civil rights group rather than just another thinly veiled hate group.

    It would just be the most unnecessary and probably idle civil rights group that ever existed.

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  52. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by VAXcat · · Score: 3, Informative

    BTW - October Sky is an anagram for "Rocket Boys".

    --
    There is no God, and Dirac is his prophet.
  53. Curiosity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Scientific exploration has always, throughout human history, mostly been driven by simple human curiosity and willingness to try new things. Sometimes it ends badly, sometimes as in a couple of shuttle flights, heroes perish, but what's the alternative? Condemning ourselves to boring, unimproved existences where nothing ever changes.

    Our society should thrive upon, celebrate, and foster that sense of brave, creative curiosity. Not punish it.

  54. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by khallow · · Score: 1

    I believe rules are rules and you break them, you should be punished, not rewarded.

    You need to keep in mind that the rules and the punishments for breaking those rules were designed most likely with the goal of the school district and its administrators evading as much responsibility as possible. A rule which has a punishment appropriate to the infraction requires considerable judgment from the enforcer of the rules. Zero tolerance policies, such as the one that this student ran afoul of, don't.

  55. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by ebno-10db · · Score: 1

    And Germany is known for its lack of scientific innovation...

    During the Nazi era it was. While engineering for weapons continued apace (rockets, jet engines) their scientific work largely died. The Nazis decimated the educational system of which the Germans had been so justifiably proud, substituting indoctrination for education. When asked what he thought of the universities after the Jews had been purged from them, the eminent elderly mathematician David Hilbert basically said "what universities"?

  56. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't agree with your "rules are rules" take on existence, but I do agree with you that it's a travesty she is being rewarded for this. She should not have been criminally charged, but expulsion, I think, was completely reasonable. Any way you slice it, she built a bomb and set it off at school. Period. Best case, she's an idiot for not thoroughly researching the outcome of an uncontrolled chemical reaction that she's only heard about in passing; worst case, she was fully aware of the potential outcome due to the numerous videos available that completely demonstrate what happens, and didn't care. Either way, she deserves to be punished, not rewarded.

  57. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only if Newton sues him, or lobbies for stricter experimentation in government funded research.

  58. I am German - and you are wrong by mha · · Score: 1

    I am German and I lived and worked in the US for 7 years, also traveled all over the place from Alaska to Key West, Maine to Hawaii.

    I soon found out, much to my surprise, that Germany is MUCH less concerned about rules than the US. It is also much more individualistic. Also, in the US the climate is much more "respect uniforms" than in Germany. It seems the two countries reversed roles after WWII.

    That said, Americans are much more polite, they respect parents and children (in Germany trying to get rid of a "noisy kindergarten" in the neighborhood is not uncommon, or finding that other customers in restaurants get infuriated even by NORMAL children behavior, I'm not talking about out of control children), I can occasionally have conversations in web forums with people I 100% disagree with (in Germany it's 99% a shouting match without any conversation - yes, WORSE than Dems/Reps). Lots of good and bad on both sides. I liked living in the US, I like living in Germany - I would probably like it in any other place (if good food and a mostly intact environment are available).

    Yes, German pedestrians DO wait for green light on a road in the middle of nowhere at 5am, no car to be heard or seen for miles (no joke, I've seen it repeatedly). However, in cases such as the one discussed here and in other more important areas they are much less likely to quietly accept authority. Also, they are less impressed by uniforms and police than Americans. That's just how it is, whether or not that's good or bad depends on the concrete circumstances.

    1. Re:I am German - and you are wrong by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

      I am also German and I am joking (mostly). The comment about German's loving rules and regulations is a stereotype, but even Germans will make jokes about it, because it applies to so many of them. A phrase you have no doubt heard "Das geht einfach nicht". Which roughly translates to "That is simply not done" with respect to any sort of non-conforming behaviour. They have bureaucrats who will tell you, for example, if the name you have chosen for your child is acceptable. If it isn't you will have to pick again. No "Moon Unit" or "Lemongello" in Germany. The thing with not liking normal child behaviour - they have a word for it Kinderunfreundlich. It is actually a cause of some soul searching, my cousins who still live there talk about it.

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
  59. Punishments don't fit the crimes by realsilly · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is not to say that I think this teenager committed a crime, personally I do not. When I went to school, there was Detention and then there was the big all day on Saturday detention. Personally I don't think this young lady should have been expelled, or even suspended. Two full all day detentions where she has to clean toilets, bathrooms, desks, buses, etc... would have sufficed.

    Certainly, after that incident the school should have made an announcement that the situation was not considered acceptable without permission / supervision from a chemistry teacher. And then any future situations of a similar nature would result in a x #no of day(s) suspension. And a repeat offender, expulsion.

    This would encourage students to be curious and cautious by approaching the appropriate teacher and getting guidance and permission.

    School is for curiosity and learning. Students make mistakes but it shouldn't stay with them for the rest of their academic lives.

    Hell if a teenager kills someone, their name is usually kept from the papers, they go to juvenile detention and their records are sealed at 18. This one young lady experiments with some chemical house hold items and she's persecuted across America by those who insist on zero tolerance.

    Folks, I don't want to see people get hurt unnecessarily, but we learn from our mistakes, let us make them without persecution forever.

    Zero-tolerance is the destruction of basic human nature and most of all COMMON SENSE. Every situation is different, Every student is different, treat them differently.

    --
    Life takes interesting turns, but the most interest is when you're off the beaten path.
    1. Re:Punishments don't fit the crimes by cusco · · Score: 1

      Horsepuckey. School is for warehousing kids and instilling basic knowledge in the majority. LIFE is where you learn things. Blow shit up, burn it down, fall in the frozen lake, that's how kids learn the interesting things.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  60. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    The rule may be ok but the implementation of the rule is bad. Ie, maximum penalty always applied with no exceptions whatsoever. The real life legal system isn't even that harsh. If you make a mistake then you learn from the mistake and move on, and if it's a simple mistake you shouldn't be ruined because of it. Some education should happen in the schools, it should not be something that's delayed until after graduation.

  61. Things have changed since I was a kid by anchovy_chekov · · Score: 1

    Getting close the 30 years ago, my friends and I got sprung pocketing magnesium strips from the High School lab. Punishment? The chem teacher walked away, wordlessly, then came back with a coil of tungsten wire, dropped it on the bench muttering quietly something about "applying enough voltage to ingite".

    Not one of us turned into terrorists. But three out of four became engineers (me the only abstainer).

  62. Charges NOT Dropped by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The charges were NOT dropped. She signed a diversion plan with the courts, which requires pleading guilty and establishing a probation routine. There are hefty monthly fees for this process and missing even one of them is grounds for ending up back in court to face the criminal charges directly. There are numerous other ways that the probationary agreement can be "violated" --drug testing the main method-- that will also land the defense back in court. Even if the diversion plan is completed, the records don't necessarily get sealed immediately, leaving them still open to background checks where this pops up, which is exactly what people think they are avoiding when they plead guilty and enter diversion plans.

    This is not justice and it is certainly not "curiosity rewarded," not by society at large at least. This is Homer Hickam calling bullshit when he sees it and trying to provide this poor girl with a silver lining that might just cancel out some of the negative effects of this incident.

  63. The law is an ass by phrackthat · · Score: 1

    The putative reason for designating the Works and Drano "bombs" and the dry ice "bomb as criminal destructive devices is to stop terrorism, but it's little more than laziness on the part of legislatures. Objects shouldn't be criminalized, only what you intend to do or in-fact do with them. Even if one could argue that objects themselves should be outlawed, there has to be some sort of proportionality that defines the punishment based on it's destructive potential (a device made of a plastic bottle than can contain 80-120 psi in a volume of 2 liters or less like a soda bottle is of little use to terrorist. However, a destructive device using something like an air compressor shell is something different, as that can contain 250 or more psi in a metallic shrapnel creating body which has a volume of 8-16 liters. That has real destructive capability.).

    Personally, I think if you blow up your own beater car in an empty field and do no other harm? It shouldn't be illegal (with littering charges if they leave the burnt carcass behind instead of properly disposing of it). But if you harm someone else then throw the book at 'em. A kid blowing-out a soda bottle in their back yard may be due a lecture but a kid destroying a neighbor's mailbox should be forced to pay restitution and do community service and perhaps should be into a Summer science program to teach them some respect for the chemistry and forces involved. Putting them in jail will probably lead to them sharing the wealth of their knowledge with other kids who will find new and ingenious ways of using that knowledge for mischievous ends . . .Unfortunately, in the criminal justice system, the only tool they seem to have is to imprison people and if the only tool you have is a hammer then everything looks like a nail. A damn shame really as we're criminalizing ingenuity and smothering our children's potential with fear.

    1. Re:The law is an ass by metaforest · · Score: 1

      This world has indeed gone mad. When I was a preteen, the suburban neighborhood's post-teen hoodlums hauled a junker car on a flat-bed out to the cleared, but undeveloped edge of the housing tract. Kids were offered an opportunity to beat on it for a while. After everyone got bored of beatting on the car, they detonated a rather large black-poweder PVC pipe-bomb inside of it. As the local model rocketry expert I supplied the electric ignition system complete with igniter, batteries, and a 555 one-shot timer relay circuit to trigger it, including a proper two-stage arming-safty. (no one had long enough cables to risk a regular switch based trigger, typically used for launching model rockets, so we used the wire we had and the relay timer)

      There was a junker-shattering kabooom! It echoed across the valley for a long time. Big huge smoke plume. Everyone had a good laugh and explored the damage done to the vehicle. No cops showed up. No one raised a stink. No one was hurt or scared, or gave a rats ass. Everyone who witnessed was asked to do a little KP duty to clean up the chunks blown off the vehicle. The carcass was hauled off to the junkyard. For the local kids like me this was a rather huge event. It wasn't like this happened all the time.

  64. Her Curiosity resulted in a good Opportunity. by Lendrick · · Score: 1

    Her adventurous Spirit is an example for all of us.

  65. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by quarterbuck · · Score: 1

    And while in high school he did set off a rocket and have cops come after him accusing him of starting a forest fire. In his case, his teachers stood by him and proved that he did not cause the fire.
    So you can understand why he'd be supportive of the girl.

    --
    http://slashdot.org/submission/1062723/Cheap-mobile-data-plan?art_pos=2
  66. The OMG fear factor and school turds with no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The girl mixed two types of chemicals in a small water bottle. Its not unlike putting pop rocks or mentos into a bottle of coca cola, and capping it. It pressures up, the plastic cap pops off and instead of soda coming out, you get a bit of white smoke. A real explosion is the gasoline/air mixture in the engine of your car. *THAT* is a big explosion. Except that the administrators don't look at it that way. It doesn't matter that popping a balloon makes more noise. It doesn't matter that there was no property damage. It doesn't matter that no one was hurt, shaken up, or otherwise affected (not even sticky pop). That doesn't matter. A small chemical reaction occurred. Curiosity was satisfied, but rules were broken. The rules are clear, anyone not following the rules must be killed. There is no leeway in the rules. Now it all comes down to the purpose of education. If the purpose of education is to educate, to teach students, to have them learn, be inquisitive of the world and adapt to it, then the education at this school is a joke. The science teacher could have explained the reaction, and the administrators could have warned about safety and not mixing chemicals without first knowing what they do, and not doing it on school property. But that's not what happened. The administrators are people who sit and administer. The reason we have courts and judges instead of just laws is that the law is flexible and not stupid. Assinine rules are what administrators administer. They aren't interested in education. They are interested in creating machines that operate in a very fixed, controlled way. The run a factory creating industrial robots. Curiosity must be eradicated! Self expression will not be tolerated! Its a draconian system the administrators have set up. They have built a silo in the name of safety. Anything outside of what they decide to be normal is unforgivable. A system like that is easily gamed, and they deserve to be gamed.

  67. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by An+dochasac · · Score: 1

    "I believe rules are rules and you break them, you should be punished, not rewarded." - Congratulations, you have met the requirements for German citizenship.

    I was going to say "you must be a Good German", but it amounts to the same thing.

    Here's another hole in the US educational system, textbooks which portray Germany (indeed much of the world) as having stopped progress in 1945. Germany is now a diverse multi-cultural society you wouldn't recognize Germany from your dusty textbook. The average German is far more liberal, tolerant and open-minded than the majority of Americans and Germany retains its scientific excellence even after exporting some of its brightest to the US back when there was a space race.
    Draconian laws with NO EXCEPTIONS EVER (except for politically powerful or those wealthy enough to buy into lawyer-based economy) have made the US less free than most of the western world, certainly less free than most of Europe (including Germany.) The wonderful American concept of written law, applied equally to everyone (except the poor, minorities, immigrants, people in interment camps...) is something to be admired, but to expect that even the gigabytes of man-made law written in our high-entropy language can encode justice for every situation is daft. This failure of written law is why we have a justice system with judges and juries of peers.

    have her write a paper on the risks of experimenting with homemade explosives and what safety measures she should have taken, but didn't and how it could be done more safely next time

    She should help Conn and Hal Iggulden write "The Dangerous Book for Girls" an updated version of their "The Dangerous book for boys." It's no coincidence that it was not first published in the US. Conn and Hal would probably be spending time at gitmo. My elementary school library had a shelf full of science books with far more dangerous experiments, build a hydrogen balloon, make coal gas, go down to your chemist and buy some quinine of mercury for a fun magic trick. Even in the 70s it was difficult to get the nineteenth century Britain raw materials (who the heck is going to sell a 10-year old HCL or H2SO4? Nowadays it's tough even to get borax for that basement fusion reactor. Now get off my lawn!

  68. VICTORY!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Homer Hickam! YOU RULE! May the Universe expand in your favor! Hope restored :)

  69. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by Hentes · · Score: 1

    So do you think children should be free to perform unsupervised and potentially dangerous experiments in school? I agree that the reaction was overblown, but she did deserve a slap on the wrist, not a congratulation.

  70. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    Let's trace this through.

    Student does dumb thing against school regs. This deserves some sort of punishment. She is expelled, and faces felony charges. Way overkill. There was no call here to involve the police.

    Student becomes cause celebre, winds up with all charges dropped, is notable enough to get private citizens to fund space camp for her.

    If the police and legal system had not been called in, she would have been disciplined by the school, and that would have been that. Nobody outside the school and neighborhood would ever have heard of her. Nobody would have set up a fund for her. The consequence would have been school discipline (too harsh to my mind, but that was the policy). In addition, she was hit with felony charges that had an excellent chance of destroying the rest of her life. I don't know exactly what her experience with the police and legal system was, but it had to be at the very least really scary. Think of space camp as a rather clumsy effort to make up for that.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  71. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by sjames · · Score: 1

    Which rule did she knowingly break?

  72. Re:I Think This Is A Bad Thing by sjames · · Score: 1

    In just a few years with any luck, she will have the opportunity to play with far more dangerous reactions in her school. It's called organic chemistry. Also with luck, she will have been taught the necessary safety precautions by that time.