LibertyReserve.com Shuttered, Founder Arrested In Spain

hypnosec writes "Libertyreserve.com has been shut with the founder arrested by police in Spain this week over his alleged involvement in money laundering. Libertyreserve.com has been down for over three days now and the arrest seems to be the reason behind the outage. Arthur Budovsky Belanchuk, a 39-year-old male, has been arrested by Spanish authorities as a part of their ongoing investigations into money laundering. U.S. officials may very well seek his extradition."

Comments

Well that's vague.

[Molochi]

Sounds like the guy running Bitcoin should keep his anonymity?

Re:Well that's vague.

[DanTheManMS]

Sounds like the guy running Bitcoin should keep his anonymity?

That comment shows a complete lack of understanding of what Bitcoin is. What you just said is as vague as saying that "The guy running the Internet better watch his back!"

Regardless, the only reason I know about LibertyReserve is because of Bitcoin. LR used to be one of the few ways to reliably buy Bitcoins, but it looked way too shady for me so I found other ways.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like the guy running Bitcoin should keep his anonymity?

That comment shows a complete lack of understanding of what Bitcoin is. What you just said is as vague as saying that "The guy running the Internet better watch his back!"

Regardless, the only reason I know about LibertyReserve is because of Bitcoin. LR used to be one of the few ways to reliably buy Bitcoins, but it looked way too shady for me so I found other ways.

I really hate to snap you back into reality here, but in the eyes of every single bank in the world, all possible ways to obtain Bitcoins is shady.

Of course, the real irony here is we're going after this guy for "laundering" while trillions sit in offshore accounts, untouched and unaccounted for, under massive tax shelters, as everyone in power simply laughs it off as if it were some kind of old-school ringknocker tradition, while the rest of us pay their taxes.

Re:Well that's vague.

[shentino]

Emphasis on power.

Fairness and justice are hollow concepts these days. If you don't wanna get fucked in the ass by the elite, don't piss them off.

Re:Well that's vague.

[siride]

I'm not sure why you are laboring under the impression that it was ever different. I'd say that despite all the corruption we have now, we still have more in the way of fairness and peace than we've generally had during most of the agrarian age.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's all open-source, openly developed, openly operated— if the strings you claim exist actually existed you'd be able to point to them easily. So where is your evidence?

Re:Well that's vague.

[pla]

Sounds like the guy running Bitcoin should keep his anonymity?

Sounds like the guy who knows nothing about Bitcoin should keep his mouth shut until he knows how it works?

And you won't particularly care to learn this, but LR had far more going on than simply serving as a Bitcoin/USD gateway. If the feds wanted to go after Bitcoin, it would have tried to take out Gox by now (and no, closing their Dwolla doesn't count).

That said, based on their increasing level of fear over a silly little online currency, I have little doubt they will eventually try to shut down all of Bitcoin. And though they may keep Americans from having much to do with it, I look forward to watching the circus as they realize that the can't trick everyone in the world into attending a security conference in Las Vegas to put them through a mock trial.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

People of every age like to disasterbate about how bad it is. Yet every objective measure continues to show increasing lifespans and quality of life. Hell, our worst problem now is too many cheap calories per person, throwing a monkey wrench into one of the most historically useful measurements.

These indicators all scale directly with economic freedom, regardless of political narratives of either party. Hell, there shouldn't even be political narratives anymore. We have solved the problem: let people be free.

Re:Well that's vague.

[fustakrakich]

I would guess you're not living in Africa, or the middle east

Re:Well that's vague.

[Reliable Windmill]

Actually, Mr. Nerdcoin Apologist, it's entirely possible part of Nerdcoin's design is to make it appear no one is in control of Nerdcoin, when in fact there is someone "pulling the strings." Nerdtcoins ARE shady in and of themselves. Sounds like someone can't see the forest through the trees.

That comment shows you have no understanding of how Bitcoin works.

Re:Well that's vague.

[siride]

Right, because clearly my post was arguing that the world no longer has any problems whatsoever.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's hard to answer this without guffawing, but effectively you've just said that the only thing that matters is the ability to form companies.

What companies do doesn't matter. The fact that companies are under complete control by government doesn't matter. The fact that they can screw the taxman doesn't matter. The fact that they can screw the citizenry doesn't matter either. Government controls over feeding the population crap would be bad, right?

In other words, society and people don't matter to you. As long as there is so-called "economic freedom" (meaning corporate freedom), all other freedoms can go to hell.

A reasonable but over-generous summary: you sir are a cretin.

Re:Well that's vague.

[viperidaenz]

Laundering and tax evasion are two different things, why are you confusing them? Laundering is the process of breaking the money trail of illegal activities. You know, like organised crime, human trafficking, drug dealing...

Re:Well that's vague.

[fustakrakich]

Yeah, because saying, ...we still have more in the way of fairness and peace than we've generally had during most of the agrarian age. is not the same thing. It would be wise to consider other viewpoints that illustrate the utter absurdity of your post, because yours come from a very small minority.

Re:Well that's vague.

[siride]

If we put peace and fairness on a scale from 1 to 100, with 100 being perfect justice and no war/fighting, then if we go from a 15 to a 25, it's still an improvement, even if there's much left to be desired. Far more people in the world today do live safe and prosperous lives, lives that were once only for kings and clergy. A lot of people still don't, but it hasn't really gotten worse over the last 1000 years, say.

Re:Well that's vague.

[zidium]

What I'm basically saying, reduced to its logical beginnings, is:

Treat all cultures as we do Aboriginal cultures: Let them persist as they have been for millennia, without obstruction, intervention, or moral superiority. Let each region, culture evolve under the laws of natural selection until they, too, have reached our (white, Japanese, etc.) level of technology.

And, yes, I believe this should eventually be carried out on even a regional basis, so that some (many?) parts of great megastates, like the United States and China, do not have antibiotics and the wheretodos either invent them or prove their mettle in order to secure immigration to more technologically advanced enclaves.

Re:Well that's vague.

[flayzernax]

Overall, yes. Individually no. Individuals before the invention of modern firearms and rail were able to basically migrate and say piss off to most. But were equally limited in escape from larger numbers. The only people they had to worry about was their neighbors. If you didn't live in Europe it wasn't to bad.

Hermit caves are no longer viable. Small nomadic tribes can no longer just disappear. There are a few exceptions sort of. Like Bedouins. But even they and their Kurdish neighbors are influenced by global economics and politics.

There is a tribe in Africa somewhere that use to not know what New York was. And didn't have a concept of "time" in their language. But I believe they've recently had enough interaction with National Geographic to no longer be immune. They were extremely primitive and isolated. This was covered by good research and journalism.

Now some asshole just has to send a text to be a twat from their epic yacht. That text gives an order and the ball rolls from there. The people executing those orders are of course happy to oblige because they are above the people being executed. And most can indirectly wash their hands of the whole bloody mess and justify it as professional business.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Darkness404]

...Except everything with Bitcoin is open. Think there's something shady going on? Look at the source yourself! This isn't some ultra-secret proprietary blob where no one has a clue what's happening, its a well-documented, open ecosystem where anyone can understand how it works.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

Or one could just piss them off in a pseudonymous way. Then the "elite" attacks whatever identity you used to piss them off with. Your worst enemies identity, for instance. See, that's why morality is necessary, and primacy by abuse from whomever can assume a mantle of authority is fallacious.

Re:Well that's vague.

[AK Marc]

If a rich white man does it, it's business. If a poor drug dealer of questionable ethnicity does it, it's a federal crime worthy of extradition. These pricks are why the only "easy" way for me to get money from my US bank is to fly there, take it out in cash, and fly back. But you have a good chance of having it confiscated at one or more borders, if you aren't robbed when they require you count your $100,000 in cash in plain view of hundreds of travelers. "You look nervous and you have cash, I'm going to assume it's drug money and confiscate it" "I look nervous *because* I have cash." "too late, all gone, here's your receipt."

Re:Well that's vague.

[AK Marc]

For your statement to be correct, the people laundering money must pay the correct taxes on it. Do you really think that happens? Perhaps the "crime" they are laundering from *is* tax evasion. Does that work for you?

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

And you won't particularly care to learn this, but LR had far more going on than simply serving as a Bitcoin/USD gateway. If the feds wanted to go after Bitcoin, it would have tried to take out Gox by now (and no, closing their Dwolla doesn't count).

Might be a bit harder; Japan isn't really one of our vassals and respect rule of law more than these other shithole countries. Close allies, yes, but we can't even get them to outlaw child porn, much less raid a business for us.

Re:Well that's vague.

[lxs]

I tried reading the source but it was all written in code.

Re:Well that's vague.

[KGIII]

It is the Just Us system after all. You don't expect anything different do you? I'm starting to side with the folks who make the juvenile comments about wanting to see them swing from the lampposts. Well, I'm not starting to side with them as much as I'm starting to get their frustrations. I am lucky enough to where such doesn't concern me but the repeated abuses of those who aren't are bound to result in a backlash eventually. You can only piss on someone's head so many times before they rip your dick off. Err... Or something like that.

Re:Well that's vague.

[viperidaenz]

There is no requirement to evade taxes when laundering money. In fact it would be wise to pay taxes to avoid suspicion.

Re:Well that's vague.

[DrXym]

Of course, the real irony here is we're going after this guy for "laundering" while trillions sit in offshore accounts, untouched and unaccounted for, under massive tax shelters, as everyone in power simply laughs it off as if it were some kind of old-school ringknocker tradition, while the rest of us pay their taxes.

That would be called a "you too" argument. Doesn't mean the original point is wrong. Also, the US (and most governments in fact) have long established money laundering laws precisely to stop criminals moving money around by any means. I assume they are going after liberyreserve.com because it is running afoul of those laws in some way, e.g. by not reporting large or suspicious transactions or actively facilitating them.

Re:Well that's vague.

[DNS-and-BIND]

Yes but the objective is 100. Thus there is plenty of criticism to go around even if we are at 50, at 75, or at 99. Especially 99. And once we're at 100 there will still be plenty of hatred because we're not at the right kind of 100. Sad but true.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not being screwed. That's his entire point. Unless you consider an abundance of food is getting screwed.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

Now some asshole just has to send a text to be a twat from their epic yacht. That text gives an order and the ball rolls from there. The people executing those orders are of course happy to oblige because they are above the people being executed. And most can indirectly wash their hands of the whole bloody mess and justify it as professional business.

This is how most tribes worked.

Re:Well that's vague.

[babblefrog]

I think my brain just exploded. What the hell are you talking about?

Re:Well that's vague.

[flayzernax]

I would disagree. If it's a small tribe, 20 or 40 people at most. Or a village. You could either escape the asshattery or directly resist the individuals giving the orders. People make the assumption that all tribes were ruled purely by force. I think if you study the matter many were ruled by responsible leadership as well. In fact there were many more forms of leadership. People could pick and choose better just what kind of politics they liked over all. Of course they took much more individual responsibility then we do now. But having to be all your own branches of the government and interact with a group of friends for protection and respect is not necessarily bad.

It's been abstracted many orders of a magnitude. This has been somewhat mitigated by the internet. But I'm pretty sure someone like Ted Turner is far outside of my monkey sphere. Even via the net. Leadership has been abstracted through several different layers. And yes the world is one great pyramid scheme. Rather than many small pyramid schemes.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

The secret is: The maliciousness was planted early, when Bitcoin was young. A shit ton of Bitcoin was mined because the network difficulty was so low. That means there are some big pockets out there. Disproportionately huge actually. They can dramatically move capital in the Bitcoin economy.

It will be traced somewhat, of course, but not enough to figure out who.

Re:Well that's vague.

[peawormsworth]

I really hate to snap you back into reality here, but in the eyes of every single bank in the world, all possible ways to obtain Bitcoins is shady.

Of course, the real irony here is we're going after this guy for "laundering" while trillions sit in offshore accounts, untouched and unaccounted for, under massive tax shelters, as everyone in power simply laughs it off as if it were some kind of old-school ringknocker tradition, while the rest of us pay their taxes.

Exactly. If you want to launder money or transact payments for black market goods, then you better use the international banking system. Otherwise, you will upset people and you will be arrested.

On the other hand, the banking system will appreciate your work in helping them make all digital currency transactions appear shady. It will help them in their efforts to brand bitcoin as a currency of the criminals

Re:Well that's vague.

[peawormsworth]

Are you suggesting that the banking system does not launder money for criminals and terrorists??? The International banking system is known to launder billions and billions. Far more then the total market value of all bitcoins combined.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18880269

Highlights: HBMX (mexico) shipped $7bn to HSBC's US operation for high-profile clients involved in drug trafficking. 28,000 undisclosed sensitive transactions between 2001 and 2007... The vast majority of those transactions - worth $19.7bn - involved Iran. Between 2005 and 2008, HBUS cleared $290m worth of US dollar travellers' cheques which were being presented at a Japanese bank... without proper anti-money laundering controls, despite evidence of suspicious activity. HSBC did business with Saudi Arabia's biggest financial institution, Al Rajhi Bank... even after they knew... evidence emerged that Al Rajhi and some of its owners had links to financial organisations associated with terrorism.

Re:Well that's vague.

[AK Marc]

I never said it was a requirement. You are asserting that money laundering people are no less likely to file accurate tax returns. I disagree.

Re:Well that's vague.

[viperidaenz]

No. I'm not suggesting who is and who isn't a party to a crime.
I have no idea where you got that suggestion from. Are you hallucinating?

Re:Well that's vague.

[Darkness404]

Yeah, because the fact that I'm typing this on Opera on Windows 7 shows that I'm a F/OSS zealot...

You can't have some big conspiracy when it comes to open standards and open source programs. Claiming that there MUST be some sort of malicious thing lurking in the program is completely unfounded because Bitcoin is open. Its counter-productive to claim a conspiracy when one does not exist and if you think one exists, you can look in the source yourself and see if it does exist.

Re:Well that's vague.

[ngg]

On what basis do you disagree? The tax man don't care where your money came from as long as you pay your taxes. That's why there is that line for "other" income. In fact, I'd argue that's why money laundering was made a crime by statute (whereas previously it could be prosecuted as "accessory to X after the fact"): Criminals started paying their taxes so you couldn't nab them for tax evasion.

Re:Well that's vague.

[Anonymous Coward]

a gilded cage is still a cage.

Re:Well that's vague.

[AK Marc]

On what basis do you disagree?

The low level of people reporting income as being from illegal activities, vs the estimations of illegal income. The discrepancy indicates that a large number of people don't report correctly.

Re:Well that's vague.

[F. Lynx Pardinus]

I'm concerned that you qualified "freedom" with "economic." It's the sort of thing people who live in relative political and religious freedom do because they take it for granted.
I was just reading a book about the civil rights era. A black man had irritated the local Southern sheriff. The local sheriff took him out back, shouted "he's coming right at me!" in his police radio, and shot the man several times. The man miraculously survived, so the local prosecutor charged him with assaulting the sheriff. This particular incident had little to do with economic freedom.
All the economic freedom in the world is fantastic, but political and religious freedom matter just as much.

Re:Well that's vague.

[fustakrakich]

Yes, well, as I keep on saying, but not getting through, is that it is very easy to put "peace and fairness on a scale from 1 to 100" when it's not your ass being raped with a broken coke bottle.

Re:Well that's vague.

[siride]

This is a variant of the "no atheist in a foxhole" meme. What may be true for this or that person should not be the basis by which we judge overall quality of life in the world. There will always be people who get broken coke bottles up the ass. And there will always be people who live lives far more posh than they deserve. I see no point in saying the world is a shithole because it's a shithole for some people, nor in saying that the world is wonderful because it's wonderful for some people. We should judge it in aggregate and in "justice velocity", which still mostly seems to be going up, not down, despite all the shit that's out there.

Re:Well that's vague.

[fustakrakich]

You are totally unable to see how subjective such statements are. There is no neutral position in which to quantify your 'justice velocity'. It's all a bunch of think tank nonsense.

Re:Well that's vague.

[siride]

And you live in a sad world where the fact that somebody is getting raped by coke bottles somewhere means the world totally sucks and nobody can ever say anything nice about it. Which is really a slap in the face to the large number of people who work tireless and thanklessly to bring about justice and peace, from grassroots agitators and rebellious populations willing to give up their lives to make things right to the variety of NGOs and other organizations that do real work to help real people, to say nothing of western democracies, shitty though they often are, that still have provided a rather significant chunk of the world's population with lands and markets where they can live and prosper in relative freedom and justice. A fucking slap in the face to all these people to say that nothing's helped, nothing is getting better, nobody cares, nobody's done any work to fix real problems and the only thing that matters is that it sucks somewhere for somebody, even if most people on this planet just go about their lives with neither extremes of poverty/injustice or undue wealth and power. And you're the one telling me that my head's up my ass.

Re:Well that's vague.

[fustakrakich]

There's lots of 'nice things' to say. They just don't add up the way you want to think they do. You speak from a very luxurious position, and get all defensive when challenged on it.

Re:Well that's vague.

[siride]

No, it's not just a lot of nice things to say. A lot of nice things to say is "there really aren't any problems in the world today" and "anybody can be rich if they put in just a little bit of hard work". Those kinds of statements ignore reality. So do yours. It's easy to go around shooting the messenger and focusing on the ethos rather than the logos. You can always call someone biased or declare that they are in a position where "it's easy to say...". It's really really easy to do that. I could probably do the same to you. You are, after all, posting on a website (which requires internet access -- something a lot of people in the world don't have), in impeccable, idiomatic English, meaning that you've had access to halfway decent education in an anglophone country or perhaps some western European country. So I could easily charge you with being a hypocrite and making easy statements (it's also really easy for people in places of privilege to spend a lot of time playing oppression olympics and deconstructing identity politics and relations when they don't have to, you know, actually deal with it). But I won't do that, because we all live the lives we live and a lot of our state is determined by things out of our control, for better or for worse. And taking time to make those statements won't fix any of the problems that you claim I'm ignoring, nor will it do anything to make any sort of logically worthwhile case. It's just another way to pick at people. And yes, that's why I'm responding defensively.

he is not going to an resort prison

[Joe_Dragon]

he is not going to an resort prison no for that it's FMITA prison.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Achra]

There is something profoundly broken about our justice system in that the general public takes joy in imagining the likelihood of prison rape.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Intrepid imaginaut]

It's not the justice system (alone) that's broken, it's the general public.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Anonymous Coward]

and shouldn't there be a comma instead of a period after "aren't they?" Or, wait, I'm sorry, shouldn't there be a comma after 'aren't they'?

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[kermidge]

I would say there is something profoundly broken with the general public as well, not mention a few of us here, given that the second titled post leapt to partisan politics via a non sequitur, and the rest weren't much better, each in their own way, although there was at least a valid grammar nazi post. Yay for us.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[shentino]

They both are.

Not only is prison rape wrong even though the victim is a prisoner, but why the hell should the guy doing the raping get free buttsex?

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[ikhider]

Yep, the general public is quite broken. They cannot even control their own government.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[westlake]

There is something profoundly broken about our justice system in that the general public takes joy in imagining the likelihood of prison rape.

A casual visitor to Slashdot might be excused for thinking that it was the geek --- and not the general public --- who was obsessed with talk of prison rape and never more so then when one of his own is coming up for sentencing on a felony charge,

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not free; it's a taxable benefit, Why else would someone become a prison guard?

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Anonymous Coward]

For all intensive purposes, I could care less.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[viperidaenz]

Somebody from Crete?

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[AK Marc]

It was a popular line from a "geek" movie, so it does get more casual play in the geek circles, but it's still a popular opinion. Nobody agrees on what prison is. Is it punishment, deterrent, revenge/vengeance, isolation, or rehabilitation? Often those are mutually exclusive. Or drawn on racial lines, Blacks get the vengeance treatment, and whites get rehab/isolation.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, the general public is a whole lot less broken these days than it used to be. But you were only born yesterday and don't know anything about history, so you wouldn't know.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Jedi Alec]

Sure they can. They just keep on choosing not to.

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[lightknight]

And that took quite a lot of effort, from what I can tell.

Think about it: in order for the public to be the way it is, that is, broken with regards to how it treats its fellow human beings, some sort of self-sustaining design with negative feedback cycles has to be developed. This is, of course, assuming that human beings are, on the majority, naturally empathic beings, who do not wish each other harm...perhaps with the odd exception. Now, is it this way because of some natural evolution, or because it's simply the only way things can work when they get this large, or is it because of some mandates by each passing generation, compounding the error?

We can see in smaller communities how this status quo can be altered (the Amish, etc. are not broken). And we can see in certain larger communities elsewhere, in some countries, that they are not broken, or are broken along different lines. So...what are we missing?

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, right. If it was a child molester, I can kind of understand the poetic justice of the situation. But for anyone else, why are people happy about it?

Re:he is not going to an resort prison

[Thud457]

the Amish, etc. are not broken)

OMG WTF?!!! Amish not broken?!!
Next you'll try to tell us that there wasn't a global cetacean conspiracy to rape Carl Sagan.

U.S. officials may very well seek his extradition.

[Anonymous Coward]

When I read that part the first thing that popped into my head was, "the entire arrest could be bogus".

It's weird, when the U.S. is behind something like this then that increases the chances of the whole thing being bogus.

N/T

[Anonymous Coward]

wtf is libertyreserve? how about a proper sumamary?

Re:N/T

[gl4ss]

wtf is libertyreserve? how about a proper sumamary?

I guessed it's some bitcoin exchange. that probably wasn't sending transactions direct to DOJ.

Re:N/T

[gl4ss]

wtf is libertyreserve? how about a proper sumamary?

I guessed it's some bitcoin exchange. that probably wasn't sending transactions direct to DOJ.

I was wrong, it seems it was an egold clone. a money sending service. pretty much by definition running one is going afoul of US laws regardless of you having anything to do with USA..

Re:N/T

[Anonymous Coward]

Unless you're HSBC, of course. Then it's all cool.

Re:N/T

[murdocj]

Cue the ominous sound of black helicopters.

"gl4ss... gl4ss...????"

Re:N/T

[Anonymous Coward]

Honestly, if you don't know about it by now, just shut up and educate yourself.

HSBC

[Anonymous Coward]

He should use the HSBC defense.

Or does that only apply if you money-launder billions of drug money?

Re:HSBC

[GameboyRMH]

Only applies if you're Too Big To Fail.

Re:HSBC

[Anonymous Coward]

Only applies if you're ...

"... too big to jail" were the exact words used.

It is still the USA saying that one corrupt, violent government can use international finance and a less corrupt, violent government can't. I note that no-one has made that complaint on Slashdot.

When no-one goes to jail and the corporation gets 20% commission, another 'too big to jail' operator will take the money. It's just like the drug trade. Although the US knows the racket now, the new 'Mr Big' can make lots of money if it doesn't get greedy. That's when these corporations get careless and get caught.

Re:U.S. officials may very well seek his extraditi

[viperidaenz]

Like the illegal raids on Kim Dotcom?

Don't panic

[gmuslera]

Trading virtual goods could put you in jail now, no matter in which country you are at now. And that includes virtual towels too.

Re:Don't panic

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, I have a ton of "final warnings" about RuneScape trading in my spambox.

Where do annoying words come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see this word "shuttered" more and more. I thought it meant physically shutter the windows, either pulling the blinds shut, or nailing over the windows like in cartoons. When did it start being metaphorical? We already have a word that means "closed": CLOSED.

Re:Where do annoying words come from?

[siride]

How is closed any better? It's just another metaphor.

Re:Where do annoying words come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's been that way since 1800 or so, at least. Just because you can't be bothered to use a dictionary doesn't mean others should only use one meaning of words to keep things simple for you.

Re:Where do annoying words come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone knows "closed" from childhood. It's on every door of every business in an english-speaking country. OPEN 8:00 CLOSED 5:00

Since we know that businesses that "close" open the next day, when it's in the news, we assume that the "closed" is permanent. Why use a new word? Couldn't I just use "deleted"? What's wrong with that? Oh deleted already means something?

Re:Where do annoying words come from?

[rsmith-mac]

Shuttered and closed have different implications in this case. Closed implies an orderly wind down, while shuttered implies a rapid and disorderly cessation. It's akin the difference between closing time at night a local restaurant, and the owners throwing everyone out in the middle of the day.

Re:Where do annoying words come from?

[viperidaenz]

Perhaps because shuttered is the correct word

Re:Where do annoying words come from?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Closed" is short term, "shuttered" is long term or permanent.

Re:Where do annoying words come from?

[AK Marc]

I went to the local market last night, and it was closed.

Now, tell me if it was out of business or I got there later than they were open for the day.

What if I said:
I went to the local market last night, and it was shuttered.

I don't think you get it.

[Anonymous Coward]

That Bitcoin being a risky proposition and "The guy running the Internet better watch his back!" shows a disconnect in how Bitcoin folk could owe a fuckton in back taxes.

However, It's likely you'll get away with your tax evasion. No hard feelings.

With us or against us

[Reliable Windmill]

If you don't engage in trade and development on the terms of the United States of Terrorism, they will have you extradited.

SEPA Eurozone surveillance

[Anonymous Coward]

The next big thing is the Euro zone SEPA transfers. These replace all internal European transfers by Feb 2014, so there will be one big central database of all the money sent between anyone.

Want to know how much rent Bob pays? It's right there in the database. How much money was donated to Jeffs political campaign? Who what when and how much is listed in that big database ready to be mined by anyone with a political mind to do so. Every money transaction listed in a nice juicy database waiting to be data mined for surveillance purposes in violation of EU Privacy Law for 'anti money laundering' purposes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_Euro_Payments_Area

"The main objectives of SEPA are:
"Increasing surveillance of electronic money flow, particularly regarding money laundering (unofficially, also for surveillance of illicit work [10–30 percent of GDP], organised crime and tax evasion)"

Notice the USA leaked the SWIFT data, selecting a portion of it to leak to the press as marketing for 'money laundering', while leaking the whole database to its allies in G7 countries:
http://www.icij.org/offshore/secret-files-expose-offshores-global-impact

Now the agenda in Europe has been manufactured to set the stage for the USA getting its hands on all that SEPA data too:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/may/11/g7-action-tax-evasion-george-osborne
"G7 agree to tackle tax evasion."

And politicians that don't agree, better try to remember if they've ever made a bank transfer that a bit of innuendo can make seem sinister, because that is what will happen if they don't go along with this destruction of privacy. Even if you think you're immune, what about your family? There's a reason we have privacy as a fundamental right. It's essential to protect basic freedom.

Libertyserve's crime, is to not reporting transactions to the USA.

digital currencies, money exchanges

[manu0601]

There seems to be a vocal crowd obsessed with bitcoin, but there are many other digital currencies out of there. Anyone has a decent list? Wikipedia only list a few, and LibertyReserve is not among them. It is not listed as digital money exchanger either.

Re:digital currencies, money exchanges

[magic maverick]

Most of the other digital currencies are scams and frauds. Most of them are created for the express purpose of making the creator rich. Besides, Wikipedia lists heaps, just not at the article you linked to. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_currencies.

Oh, and Bitcoin. Don't use LibertyReserve or another centralized system, use Bitcoin!

Re:digital currencies, money exchanges

[Intrepid imaginaut]

It was the same thing with the property bubble. Those invested in the pyramid scheme were always the most vocal, trying to keep prices propped up. Watch this post get modded down now as they try to protect their 'investment'.

Slashdot founder arrested for opinion laundering

[Anonymous Coward]

May 2022, the founder of Slashdot.org, was today arrested for opinion laundering. Slashdot has long flouted the mandatory reporting of comments to the USAs Central database, with its 'anonymous cowards' commenting system that lets criminals, even terrorists say unapproved things free from observation.

A crackdown on non-USD transactions...

[Darkness404]

It seems like the US is trying to do everything in its power to stop people from exiting the USD.

The question is, what isn't the government telling the public? According to their official numbers, inflation is minimal, the currency is stable and the Fed's policies are helping the economy. On the other hand, their actions and the results are completely different.

Re:A crackdown on non-USD transactions...

[stenvar]

What does money laundering have to do with "exiting the USD"? Anybody can convert USD to anything they like anytime they like.

Re:A crackdown on non-USD transactions...

[Darkness404]

...Which is what Liberty Reserve was trying to do, let you turn USD to a digital currency.

The US's "money laundering" regulations either make you have to refuse US customers (which is what most foreign banks do) or invade the privacy of your customers. There is no way to respect the privacy of your customers and take US customers. Its not about money laundering, its about control.

Preventing money laundering does not mean you have to go to the extremes that the US government requires. The only reason you'd need all the information that the US government requires is if you were trying to prevent people from exiting the USD. Its about control, not crime.

Re:A crackdown on non-USD transactions...

[stenvar]

The only reason you'd need all the information that the US government requires is if you were trying to prevent people from exiting the USD. Its about control, not crime.

Those are annoying to regular users of USD, but if you just want to exit the USD, they do not "prevent" you from doing so: you exchange your USD once, fill out the paperwork, and never have to deal with USD or US banking regulations again.

If you find a currency and country that's actually better, let me know. So far, holding money in USD still seems like the best bet.

Re:U.S. officials may very well seek his extraditi

[Darkness404]

Any time you see money laundering and digital currencies you should think that the entire thing should be bogus.

The US government thinks that it needs to be able to spy on anyone's account, for any reason, at any time and if you don't agree to violate your customer's privacy you're aiding *insert scare-word of the day*.

I'm imagining that the US government is scared at its increasing financial irrelevance in the digital world. The US Dollar, currently the backbone of most financial transactions is in jeopardy. Digital, open currencies such as Bitcoin provide a transparent look at monetary policy and potentially can have more stability when compared to the US dollar which has the monetary policy of "whatever the hell Bernake thinks is best" and hard money like gold and silver make very good stores of wealth that cannot be devalued by printing.

Now, the total collapse of the US dollar is likely to be delayed because out of the major currencies (USD, Yen, Euro, Sterling) the USD looks to be the one in least jeopardy, but fiat currencies have a 100% rate of failure and its likely that the multitude of better currencies will hasten the end of the USD.

Money laundering is bad, mkay?

[citizenr]

Remember that time when biggest Wall Street and City of London banks were found guilty of laundering drug money? They all went to prison!

And by prison I mean got bonuses.

Re:Money laundering is bad, mkay?

[lbbros]

Only after being "saved" with government money because they were "too big to fail". A nice move that swept away responsiblity.

Liberty Reserve has *NOTHING* to do with Bitcoin!!

[ornia]

I do not expect this to be common knowledge amongst the general public, seeing as most people are still coming to grips with the concept of an e-currency via their interaction with (or hearing about) Bitcoin, but...

There was an entire selection of e-currencies to choose from before cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin being the first, and premier, example) were even invented by Satoshi in 2009. Liberty Reserve wasn't even the first example of such, but indeed an often trusted replacement for the original e-Gold service that came under fire by the US Department of Justice already over 6 years ago in 2007. There seems to be a basic confusion in the comments so far as to the blatant fundamental differences between services like LR (and e-Gold before it) and Bitcoin (and cryptocurrency derivatives thereof). As a user of centralised e-currencies multiple years before Bitcoin existed, I would like to make a couple of things clear:

The difference between services like Liberty Reserve and e-Gold and Bitcoin is that the former are centralised services operated and controlled by a single collection of people, often legally protected by an incorporated entity in the Central American/Carribean region of the Earth. The pioneers of Internet "e-currencies" such as these specifically chose to create their corporations in this part of the world within known tax havens. It is only natural for the creators to wish to legally establish such a corporation designed specifically to manage money transfers in a place that will minimally tax such transfers.

e-Gold's creators incorporated in the Carribbean island state of St. Kitts and Nevis, and the Liberty Reserve creators incorporated in Panama (altho I truly did not know where the masterminds lived or where from they operated until now, but it seems from this article the answer is España). The entire difference between them and the pseudonymos 'Satoshi Nakamoto' is that old generation e-currency operators maintained central control of monitary transactions using their service. You managed your account by connecting to their website, logging in, and checking your funds, managing transfers, and so forth, but all of this was always under their full control. If they had any issues with your use of your own account, they had the right to shut off your access to it and confiscate all of your funds, with essentially no capability of retrival (I know of people who lost access to thousands of USD this way). They taxed every transfer you wished to make, which affected both transfers between 2 users within the same system (sending LR LR) or to exit/enter the system (exchanging LR to/from USD). They could monitor all transactions made between every user and geolocate non-anonymised users' IP addresses to log all financial activity within their system; with Bitcoin, all transactions are public to all, as opposed to only a select few being able to monitor all else who use this system to transfer money.

The most essentially incorrect aspect of confusing this story with anything to do with Bitcoin, is that Bitcoin is exciting and inspiring exactly because it is the antithesis of centralised architecture, or at least the closest successful example thereof. When we were using Liberty Reserve (or other centralised e-currency), we were completely under the creator's control. LR eventually forced upon users a captcha based in Flash that prevented us from using Tor to login securely as we could for multiple years before. When LR attacked our technical ability to use the service anonymously, many moved to Pecunix. Whilst Pecunix has a better login system (one that blatantly allows for anonymous access), it was still a centralised e-currency controlled by a single group of people operating behind a

Re:Obama, no doubt.

[tmosley]

You're both right. Republicans and Democrats are both anti-social, and those who hold office in their names are selected for sociopathic tendencies. This is conclusive, as the two have been in power for more than a century, and we have seen continuous erosion of freedom during that time. Now, the loss of freedom and property rights is starting to catch up with us economically. Now the R+D complex must resort to tactics normally used by floundering autocracies and impose capital controls, cutting off all means of non-submission to their vile authority.

The worst part is that there is nothing you can do but flee, or perhaps try to hide. Good luck, people. You're going to need it.

bitcoin story

[slashmydots]

This is 100% because of bitcoins. It's probably realistically 50% because of money laundering and 50% because feds in multiple countries want bitcoin to go away. Unfortunately LR and Dwolla were the two major ways to fund bitcoin exchanges without using EFTs. I think the other major way is Bit Instant and I'm not completely sure how they work exactly. I know they're super protected and designed with anonymity and anti-shutdown designs from the get go.

Re:bitcoin story

[Anonymous Coward]

Bitfloor was another way, but BofA shut down their account without warning. Guess they didn't like the competition. Same thing happened to a similar bitcoin service in Canada.

But not to bitcoins

[Anonymous Coward]

" Anybody can convert USD to anything they like anytime they like."

Yet you can't buy bitcoins with your USD, and you can't buy prescription medicines unless its at a licensed pharmacie based in the USA, and you can't donate to Wikileaks, and you can't buy poker chips, unless its inside the USA in places like Vegas, and you can't buy LibertyReserve credits, but you can buy Paypal ones.

The non-crime of money laundering

[Anonymous Coward]

Money laundering is not a crime in the sense that rape, arson, assault, theft, burglary, and murder are. It's nothing more than doing what any human being has the right to do -- keeping one's one affairs private and flipping the finger at nosy busybodies who think they should be able to scrutinize every aspect of one's life.

invest in shares

[Anonymous Coward]

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Re:Liberty Reserve has *NOTHING* to do with Bitcoi

[Anonymous Coward]

Only decentralised currencies implemented in Free/Libre Software have the true and honest potential to bring about egalitarian, global access to capitalistic activity and wealth transfer.

Such a fascinating world we live in. On one side we have people who, from the bottom of their heart, believe a dead man from 2,000 years ago will return to earth and escort them to heaven. On the other side are FOSS zealots who believe some new "digital/Internet/super techno like us" currency is going to change the world and overthrow the old world order. Sad, but still fascinating.

What took them so long?

[SIGBUS]

For all the talk about "ZOMG the US government/New World Order/Illuminati is going to take our moneez!" in this thread, I'm surprised there's been absolutely no mention of what Liberty Reserve was often used for: the crimeware trade.

Head over to Krebs on Security for a better idea of why shutting down Liberty Reserve is a Good Thing.

Re:What took them so long?

[Anonymous Coward]

I call that cruel and unusual punishment, good sir. Having to "head over" to that blogger with the ugly mugshot, I mean.

The trouble with believing shutting down this kind of service is that we (as in, various governments with the US heading the parade) have turned banking, you know that trade where the main selling point is trustworthyness, so that clients will trust their banks with their money, into privatately run financial policing services.

That is, instead of the client, you're now the criminal, unless you prove differently. This is only possible because governments and banks have conspired to make use of banking services nigh-on inescapable. And to perpetuate it they need to ensure banks collectively retain that monopoly.

So of course the people with the most to lose will move to an alternative first. If the governments had wanted to keep the oversight they should've refrained from criminalising everyone. Instead, be laid back and permissive, but as soon as you sniff out something you fetch the relevant data (to the suspects only, tyvm) and you piece together the whole story. With a permissive stance you stand a much better chance of getting the picture sufficiently complete.

Instead, governments time and again prefer to push people into a dark unregulated underworld and then act all surprised and outraged when they inevitably succeed. For harrowing examples aplenty, see the wars on drugs, like in Mexico (no points for guessing which government pressured them into creating that situation), and compare and contrast with that lone country choosing to do otherwise, Portugal.

Really now. The bare fact that "criminals" use a service is no reason to shut it down. The very same people use cars, eat, and even breathe too. It is, however, reason to look at what you're doing wrong with your policies. But that might mean politicians and other governments end up having to say they're sorry for goofing up. Can't have that, now can we?

Re:What took them so long?

[Anonymous Coward]

Anecdotal for sure, but the only reason I recognized the name LibertyReserve is ransomware. Hackers broke into one of my clients places two weeks ago. The demand? 5000 Liberty Reserve USD. (We cleaned out the malware by hand and restored from backup.)

Re:What took them so long?

[Anonymous Coward]

So? I've known about it for years. Would having an account there make me an anecdotal criminal?

Anything that can be abused, will be, and plenty of things that nominally can't, will be too. If not LR, then moneypak, webmoney, western union, bank transfers, envelopes with money in the mail. It doesn't matter.

The point apparently went entirely over your head: Regulate too much and people will think up alternatives that skirt the regulations. So be very careful how much and what you regulate, so that you can keep an eye on things. This, the USoA government entirely fails at.

As long as it will keep that up, people who don't mind ending up in a shadow economy will continue to have an easier life than the "nothing to hide, nothing to fear" crowd that has done and will do nothing wrong yet has to suffer continuous intrusive policing, "just in case". Even taking into account the losses from shuttering by the schoolyard bully of world governments. Just don't put all your eggs in but one basket.

Re:What took them so long?

[Anonymous Coward]

Regulate too much and people will think up alternatives that skirt the regulations.

Shutting down LibertyReserve is not over-regulation. This is over-regulation.

dkleinsc put it better than anyone. He even included a George Carlin quote.

Re:Obama, no doubt.

[Anonymous Coward]

LIbertarians are just Republican hipsters.

Obviously, they didn't expect it.

[CityZen]

Because nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition!

you're free to move to saudi arabia

[Anonymous Coward]

you can exercise your freedoms there, maybe?

Your "TL;DR" is too long.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, executive summaries go on top, instead of adding them to the bottom where they're entirely useless and insulting to your readers because they just worked through all that tripe you could've edited into the short version already.

Trade is intervention

[tepples]

Treat all cultures as we do Aboriginal cultures: Let them persist as they have been for millennia, without obstruction, intervention, or moral superiority.

Since antiquity, societies with different cultures have been trading with one another. Trade is intervention.

Obama? Left wing? LOLLLLLLLl

[toby]

Bwahahahahahaa

Re:Liberty Reserve has *NOTHING* to do with Bitcoi

[Anonymous Coward]

let's see:
the status quo is where every widely used currency is a under control of a central bank (making the market for that
currency a centrally planned one)

I really don't think that it's a stretch to say that the indroduction of a viable uncontrolled, non-central plan money market would indeed change the world rather fundamentally. At the very least it would take a lot of power away from governments and banks.

RFC 1149-c compliant crazy formatting:

[Thud457]

He's talking about INSTITUTING martial law to forcibly implement the PRIME DIRECTIVE .

Is LR the company that...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this the company that is always trying to sell Gold/Silver as an investment on FOX News? You know, their ads are usually on just after the ambulance chasing lawyer ad, but before the Medicare scam company.

Re:Liberty Reserve has *NOTHING* to do with Bitcoi

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't really matter TLDR. What is important is that at least 90% of bit coin dealings are between criminals; selling drugs, laundering money, human trafficing, etc. That's why the gov is coming down hard on them.

Re:U.S. officials may very well seek his extraditi

[Anonymous Coward]

tfiat currencies have a 100% rate of failure

Everything has a 100% rate of failure over a long enough time span. Your statement is meaningless.