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Computer Network Piecing Together a Jigsaw of Ancient Jewish Lore

First time accepted submitter aravenwood writes "The New York Times and the Times of Israel report today that artificial intelligence and a network of 100 computers in a basement in Tel Aviv University are being used to match 320,000 fragments of documents dating as far back as the 9th century in an attempt to reassemble the original documents. Since the trove of documents from the Jewish community of Cairo was discovered in 1896 only about 4000 of them have been pieced together, and the hope is that the new technique, which involves taking photographs of the fragments and using image recognition and other algorithms to match the language, spacing, and handwriting style of the text along with the shape of the fragment to other fragments could revolutionize not only the study of this trove documents, which has been split up into 67 different collections around the world since its discovery, but also how humanities disciplines study documents like these. They expect to make 12 billion comparisons of different fragments before the project is completed — they have already performed 2.8 billion. Among the documents, some dating from 950, was the discovery of letters by Moses Maimonides and that Cairene Jews were involved in the import of flax, linen, and sheep cheese from Sicily."

127 comments

  1. Dates? by stobesel · · Score: 0

    According to Wikipedia, Maimonides lived Passover Eve, 1135 to December 12, 1204; how was he able to write a document in 950?

    1. Re: Dates? by aravenwood · · Score: 1

      I didn't mean to im

    2. Re:Dates? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      According to Wikipedia, Maimonides lived Passover Eve, 1135 to December 12, 1204; how was he able to write a document in 950?

      The summary states "Among the documents, some dating from 950 ...". It is pretty clear that the "950" refers to the earliest known date of any of the documents, not the date of all of them.

    3. Re:Dates? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reading comprehension FAIL

      FTA " Among the documents, some dating from 950, was the discovery of letters by Moses Maimonides... " does not mean the the documents found which were letters written by Moses Maimonides in the year 950. What it means is there were many letters. Some written by Moses Maimonides. Some written in the year 950.

    4. Re:Dates? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think it's just a matter of trying to cram two ideas into one sentence:
      1. Some documents were from as far back as 950
      2. There were letters from Moses Maimonides found in the entire set of documents

    5. Re: Dates? by aravenwood · · Score: 2

      Sorry, didn't mean to imply that the earliest documents were related to Maimonides, just that there were very early manuscripts and also his documents were also discovered there. When I was at the British Museum they had a letter of Maimonides prominently displayed. I wonder if it was acquired from the Cairo Genizah trove.

    6. Re: Dates? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to poke your bare Bayer aspirin hole. You in?

    7. Re:Dates? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Using Slashdot?

      I'm sure some AC complained about it being out of date then as well.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    8. Re:Dates? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to Wikipedia,

      Well that's your problem right there.

  2. discovery of God's true name.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    ...destroy the universe. /just sayin'

    1. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out.

    2. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by lightknight · · Score: 1

      Meh, they once had it, and the universe still existed. Rediscovery of it is unlikely to result in its destruction.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    3. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by onkelonkel · · Score: 1

      All you morons who are modding this troll, please turn in your geek cards. Then go read "The Nine Billion Names of God"

      --
      None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
    4. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by germansausage · · Score: 2

      The mods missed the obvious Arthur C Clarke reference. Pretty sad for a Nerd News site.

    5. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      I came here to post that exact thing. Sad indeed.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    6. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by Osgeld · · Score: 4, Funny

      its howard you dipshit, says so in the loards prayer

    7. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      you must be new here

    8. Re:discovery of God's true name.... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Technically, they are going out, all the time. :-) And yes, people usually don't make fuss about it.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  3. Computers sleuth out history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Finally a good use for tech!

    1. Re:Computers sleuth out history... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep, was about time there was a good use for tech, it has been years since the last time there was any tech with a good use.

    2. Re:Computers sleuth out history... by EETech1 · · Score: 1

      Maybe these guys could help.
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Shredder_Challenge_2011

  4. Once upon a time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People made stuff up and years later, hundreds of millions of people thought it was real and decided it would be better to kill anyone that doesn't believe the same fantastic tales as themselves. Repeat for all major land masses since Mesopotamian times.

    1. Re:Once upon a time by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      People made stuff up and years later, hundreds of millions of people thought it was real ...

      Some of the documents are religious texts, but many others are bills, receipts, inventory lists, and even personal letters. These mundane documents often shed a lot of illumination on how ordinary people lived their lives. Archeologists often learn far more from looking at a civilization's garbage dumps, than from their treasures.

    2. Re:Once upon a time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are any shopping lists? Can of kraut? Tuna? Bring home for Emma?

    3. Re:Once upon a time by sconeu · · Score: 4, Funny

      Are any shopping lists? Can of kraut? Tuna? Bring home for Emma?

      I'm pretty sure there's supposed to be a bagel somewhere in there.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    4. Re:Once upon a time by cusco · · Score: 2

      This is one of those times where I'm glad I RTFA. I assumed it was a bunch of useless Torah fragments, but it actually looks like an interesting project instead. Rather like how excavating a trash midden will reveal more about life during a time period than restoration of a castle would, this promises to reveal more about trade and economics of the time than most of the (extremely biased) historical documents of the period.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    5. Re:Once upon a time by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      It's cold up here send more socks :D

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    6. Re:Once upon a time by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Funny? Clearly the mods have never read A Canticle for Liebowitz.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  5. Cartoon Network by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hands up who misread the title as 'Cartoon Network'.

  6. Re:How does this help? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does your post help them? If you care strongly enough that you fell everyone else should abandon all other pursuits, then sell your possessions, travel to the countries where those children live, and try to correct the local political and cultural problems that keep those children from food.

  7. why 100 computers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do they need 100 computers? Why can't they just use one computer or, more in vogue, rent from amazon or some other cloud computing service?

    1. Re:why 100 computers? by alexander_686 · · Score: 2

      To answer half your question, because this works scales nicely in that the work is parallel. It can be broken down and run on multiple computers, cores, threads, VM, clould, whatever. So that explains the number. And a computer that is a 100 times faster then a normal computer tends to be over a 100 times more expensive.

      As why not to the cloud? I am going to take a wild guess that it's the data – there is a lot of it so access could be a bottle neck. In this case you want your data and cpus to be physical close to each other. I am sure something could be rigged up in the cloud, but that might be more expensive, but now I entered the realm of serious speculation.

    2. Re:why 100 computers? by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

      They should have used 40 computers. Its a biblical number, which would make the resulting prophecies more believable.

      Meanwhile, work is underway to recover old Slashdot posts on a 666 node cluster.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:why 100 computers? by alexander_686 · · Score: 1

      Probably no 666. That's Christen New Testament stuff – a completely different standards fork then the stuff we are talking about here.

    4. Re:why 100 computers? by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      sounds overcomplicated for something that has been sitting around doing nothing for 117 years

  8. Re:I know what they say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "That pork thing is just to make sure you don't get sick, cook it really well and you'll be fine. Bacon is actually delicious. Also, the little hats... those are to keep you baldies from getting a sunburn. That's it. Don't go overboard with this stuff, guys. Lates, G-D."

    I always suspected the hats were to cover bald spots, is there a formal reason for them other than tradition?

  9. Re:I know what they say by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 1

    "That pork thing is just to make sure you don't get sick, cook it really well and you'll be fine. Bacon is actually delicious. Also, the little hats... those are to keep you baldies from getting a sunburn. That's it. Don't go overboard with this stuff, guys. Lates, G-D."

    I always suspected the hats were to cover bald spots, is there a formal reason for them other than tradition?

    Basically humility before G-d. Though I guess bald spots are kind of humiliating in and of themselves.

  10. Garbled Database by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 1

    The media are a little different than usual, but this is essentially an attempt to piece back together a 1000-year-old database/mail archive.

    1. Re:Garbled Database by danbuter · · Score: 1

      Yep. I think it's really cool. I suspect that other groups are also going to be using this program on other documents throughout the world.

    2. Re:Garbled Database by SpiralSpirit · · Score: 1

      I've been using it to sort through your shredded mail for weeks.

    3. Re:Garbled Database by Mystakaphoros · · Score: 1

      I've been using it to sort through your shredded mail for weeks.

      I guess that's my bad, for keeping it all in a giant underground warehouse before destruction.

  11. YHWH: the name above all [other] names by tepples · · Score: 2

    Case in point: The name that God used for himself when dealing with humanity in the 2500s-500s BCE was "Yahweh", meaning roughly "he who causes being". It appears nearly 7,000 times in the Hebrew Scriptures, and not one of those uses caused the universe's destruction. (In English, God's name is often rendered "Jehovah", just as the name of his only son "Yeshua" became "Jesus" after passing through Greek, Latin, and French.)

    1. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Thanks for the information. My understanding is that devout Jews will not say the name YHWH as they see it as being sacred and it is profane to use it. Hence they use terms like "Ha Shem" == The Name, Adonai == Lord, Melek Ha Olam == King of the World etc. Sorry, my Hebrew is very poor. The take-away is that the ancient Hebrews would use substitutes instead of invoking the personal name of God. In contrast, Islam uses the word "Allah", which comes from "il illah", "The (One) God", which is a title and not a personal name.

      Also note that despite the claims of the Muslims that Allah is the God of Abraham, this claim must be false when scriptures are compared. See the following for such a comparison, which concludes based on Islamic sources that Allah and YHWH cannot be be same (in fact, Allah has the *opposite* attributes of YHWH, read into that what you will): http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm
      Similarly, when scripture is compared the Islamic "Mehdi" pretty much has the characteristics given of a Christian Anti-Christ (there is more than one, this one just happens to be the one most detailed in Revelations). I'm an atheist so "have no skin in the game", I'm just giving a comparison of mythologies since that comparison is not known even to most religious and educated people.

    2. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And the followers of both of those faiths are going to be pissed when His name turns out to be Andy.

    3. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by khasim · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Just a few points:

      Also note that despite the claims of the Muslims that Allah is the God of Abraham, this claim must be false when scriptures are compared.

      Except that they both use the same original scriptures. Islam just adds on the words of their prophet similar to what Christianity does.

      Similarly, when scripture is compared the Islamic "Mehdi" pretty much has the characteristics given of a Christian Anti-Christ (there is more than one, this one just happens to be the one most detailed in Revelations).

      Except that the concept of "anti-Christ" does not exist in the original scriptures. Only in the addendum of the Christians.

      I'm an atheist so "have no skin in the game", I'm just giving a comparison of mythologies since that comparison is not known even to most religious and educated people.

      The problem is that none of the mythologies make any sense unless you are already a believer. So comparing three mythologies that do not make sense to each other will not result in any insights except that they are different.

      From your link:

      Are we to assume that just because the Quran states that Allah is Yahweh of the Bible that both Jews and Christians are obligated to believe this to be true?

      Are you obligated to consider MY fan-fiction to be canonical? Am I obligated to consider YOUR fan-fiction to be canonical? Particularly when the ORIGINAL material was a "shared-world" effort with lots of individual contributors who dealt with a lot of allegories and parables and such.

      Yet, the Quran teaches that Allah is the author of evil:

      When you have a monotheistic religion where EVERYTHING was created by a single omnipotent, omniscient god then arguing about whether that god created "evil" or "sin" is kind of silly.

      Whomever wrote the link that you linked to has a religious point-of-view.

    4. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Alimony+Pakhdan · · Score: 1

      Its very obvious you are repeating a Christian understanding of Hebrew and thus disinformation.

    5. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      meaning roughly "he who causes being"

      Hey, then the Higgs Boson really IS the God Particle . . . if you take "he who causes being" to mean, "he who causes mass".

      . . . I wonder if those texts have any ancient doodles or jokes on the side margins . . . ?

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    6. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Christians claim Jesus is also the God of Abraham, and that's obviously not true from scriptures, too.

      Jes' sayin'.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    7. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      God is a crazy woman and Her name is Eris.

    8. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, Allah, despite whatever it's etymological origins might be (and they most likely are a contraction of al-ilah) is very much a personal name.

      As for your second point it is ignorance and bigotry plain and simple. How can Allah and YHWH have "opposite attributes"? Especially since both are described as creating the heavens and the earth and everything in them, being good, merciful, and yes vengeful and angry too. The level of ignorance of both religious traditions at that site is just so far gone.

    9. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by JakeBurn · · Score: 0

      "Except that they both use the same original scriptures. Islam just adds on the words of their prophet similar to what Christianity does."
      Incorrect. Muslims believe that many people from the Old Testament actually existed, but they definitely do not use the same scriptures. The Koran was the real word according to them and anything else was tainted and not wholly true including the Torah as they say it was wrongfully changed by man and is no longer fully trustworthy.

      "The problem is that none of the mythologies make any sense unless you are already a believer." Kindly wish to back that up? Simply repeating ignorant arguments that you've heard like a parrot is meaningless. Including your next bit of ignorance:
      "When you have a monotheistic religion where EVERYTHING was created by a single omnipotent, omniscient god then arguing about whether that god created "evil" or "sin" is kind of silly."
      Where does the Bible say that God created EVERYTHING including the acts of men who were given free will to make their own choices? I'm not here to argue for or against anything but allowing stupid people to get away with saying stupid things.

      Of course you feel it doesn't make any sense. Regardless of its own merits you seem to lack the intelligence to even know what it says, much less make a judgment on its contents.

    10. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Ghaoth · · Score: 1

      You obviously haven't seen Prometheus.

      --
      Nos Morituri te salutamus
    11. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 1

      Re: The problem is that none of the mythologies make any sense unless you are already a believer. So comparing three mythologies that do not make sense to each other will not result in any insights except that they are different.

      So true! In fact, comparing fictional religious world-views is as fruitful as trying to compare them based on their relative phase shift of holy or sacred days:

      Islam holds Friday to be the holy day / lord's day

      Judaism holds Saturday to be the holy/lord's day

      Christianity holds Sunday to be the holy/lord's day

      (or so I have been told, I grew up in the middle of those three)
      So is the phase shift due to the age of origin of the religions? 'cause Judaism predates the other two and holds the middle religious day.

      But then again, considering the various calamitous and cliff-like calendar changes from Julian (hail, Caesar!) to Gregorian (hail, popey monkey suits!) and the various calendrical manipulations involved in orthodoxy and non-orthodoxy, it's all baloney / bologna / non-kosher-meat to me!

      And have you noticed how this part of the earth likes to use Norse gods (Tieu, Odin, Thor, Frig/Freya, Saturn) and sky-orbs (Sun's day and Moon's day) for the days of the week?

      Christian's worship the sun (son?)? Jews are Saturnalians? Muslims and Freya? WTF? Of course, it all makes no sense at all, which makes sense when you consider that it is nonsense at its base.

    12. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      Andy <- Andrew <- Andros = "man". Yes, I can see how that would be problematic.

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    13. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There are *numerous* differences between Islam and the Torah & Christianity. The evil warlord Mohammed used Arian Christian heretics to base some of the superstiton in the Qur'an on

      WOAH -- with that sort of rhetoric, it's pretty reasonable to assume you're a Christian or Jewish troll debunking Islam while pretending to be an atheist. (Or, if you're really not either, you need to reconsider the implicit respect you seem to give to the Torah & Christianity while throwing out such vitriol against other things.)

      Here, please allow me to enlighten you with numerous additional sources that show that the Qur'an is not the direct and eternal word of God

      And I can provide you with numerous apparent contradictions from the Torah and New Testament that seem just as bad. (Scholars of Christianity and Judaism of course don't think they're bad, just like Muslims don't notice their own apparent contradictions.)

      (another bold yet provably false claim, even when you don't consider the Sa'ana Qur'an), because it is plagarised from material written 500 - 1000 years earlier, gets it wrong,

      Lots of the New Testament gospels are reinterpretations of Hebrew scripture written hundreds of years before. Many Jewish scholars would say that the New Testament glosses on the Torah get a lot of things wrong.

      and then throws in a bunch of anti-scientific stuff to boot (that is, modern science *proves* statements in the Qur'an to be *false* - its claim to be *perfect* is simply rubbish):

      Because there isn't ANYTHING in the Torah or New Testament which seems to go against science... [/sarcasm]... Creation myths, worldwide floods, creating food from nothing, floating axheads, sun standing still, and... of course... multiple stories of resurrection from the dead are just a few things that come to mind.

      Now, you can choose to believe in an anti-scientific falsehood if you like. I'd rather not. It is clear that Islam makes many claims. Upon close examination those claims are *simply not true*.

      Again, I'm not getting what's different hear from those who would criticize Christianity or Judaism. (No offense to any believers at all intended, but these are criticisms that could be leveled at any of these religions by those outside of them.)

      You can deny the sources I've given, but that is simply denial of reality because you would rather cling to the lie of the mythology you were born into.

      Huh? By the way, some of your sources are pretty darn generic links to vast resources...

      Making that choice is perfectly valid, (although stupid in the 21st Century, IMHO) - you just have to understand that you are choosing to deny all the evidence that shows the various claims of your superstition as false.

      I don't see that in the GP's comment at all. He was pointing out that ALL of the religions you mention appear to have these flaws. ALL of them have apparent self-contradictions and superstitious elements. To claim this is only true of Islam and not Christianity or Judaism is just deluding yourself.

      Fortunately, as the wikiislam site shows, many people are realising the falsehood of religions and choosing to live a Free People (not slaves under Islam) and having to be virtuous because they want to be - not because they fear the nightmares of Bronze Age desert barbarians.

      I don't get it. Why, if you're such a "free thinker," do you believe that Islamic texts are somehow "worse" than Christian or Judaic texts? If you doubt all religions, surely you must recognize that the same criticisms are true of all these.

      Your specific targeting of Islam suggests a larger agenda, and from your earlier link to a site that critiques Islam from a Christian perspective suggests that something else is going on in your posts here.

      If you r

    14. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Informative

      "The problem is that none of the mythologies make any sense unless you are already a believer." Kindly wish to back that up? Simply repeating ignorant arguments that you've heard like a parrot is meaningless.

      Let's stick to the scriptures of these religions, for the sake of argument (since that's essentially how this thread got started, with someone posting a critique of Islamic scripture).

      It's pretty clear that theologians in each of these religions have debated the internal consistency of their scriptures for thousands of years. They've come up with various solutions, but the fact is that the most learned scholars of Christianity and Judaism clearly recognize that their own scriptures have apparent flaws when read at face value... and they've spent considerable time and effort to reconcile them.

      So, aside from GP's use of the term "mythologies" (which can be offensive to believers), I don't get how he's wrong. Scholars of these religions themselves recognize that their own scriptures don't quite make sense until you figure out how to make them make sense... which usually means you're already a believer in that religion to go to that trouble.

      Including your next bit of ignorance: "When you have a monotheistic religion where EVERYTHING was created by a single omnipotent, omniscient god then arguing about whether that god created "evil" or "sin" is kind of silly." Where does the Bible say that God created EVERYTHING including the acts of men who were given free will to make their own choices? I'm not here to argue for or against anything but allowing stupid people to get away with saying stupid things.

      Umm, again, there are literally thousands of years of Jewish and Christian theologians who have debated the Problem of Evil.

      If it was readily apparent that "evil" came from ?? (some other source outside of Creation, which is supposed to be all there is), while God made everything else, I doubt that the most learned folks in Christianity and Judaism would spend millennia trying to figure this problem out.

      Of course you feel it doesn't make any sense. Regardless of its own merits you seem to lack the intelligence to even know what it says, much less make a judgment on its contents.

      Given that the GP seems aware of conflicts in Christianity and Judaism that go back thousands of years, while you seem to be incredibly ignorant of the philosophical history of the religions you're trying to defend, I don't think you should be pontificating about the "lack of intelligence" in others.

    15. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      ("here", not "hear"). oops.

    16. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " Allah and YHWH cannot be be same" Uhh, no. The mediteranean religions all pray to the same god and it all can be traced back to ancient Egypt. For that matter, looking at migration patterns (due to geography) everybody in the modern developed world are Egyptian. If you consider that their god is infinitely important, then everything else pales into insignificance and Jews, Muslims and Christians are the same region.

    17. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also note that despite the claims of the Muslims that Allah is the God of Abraham, this claim must be false when scriptures are compared. See the following for such a comparison, which concludes based on Islamic sources that Allah and YHWH cannot be be same (in fact, Allah has the *opposite* attributes of YHWH, read into that what you will).

      But Yahweh was not the God of Abraham, El was! (Allah being derived from the same root).

      This is fairly obvious from even a cursory theophoric analysis of the scriptures. Moreover you do not need to leave the Hebrew texts, nor even the book of Genesis, to note that the two gods of the OT, Yahweh and El (aka Elohim, El-shaday, El-roi etc) have (sometimes) opposite attributes.

      Islam uses the word "Allah", which comes from "il illah", "The (One) God", which is a title and not a personal name.

      You forget that in Arabic as in Hebrew the word for god is the name of the god El. It is a title AND a personal name.

    18. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 2

      I don't get it. Why, if you're such a "free thinker," do you believe that Islamic texts are somehow "worse" than Christian or Judaic texts? If you doubt all religions, surely you must recognize that the same criticisms are true of all these.

      I know you don't get it. That's why you struggle to understand how Islam is different to the others. You see, the other mythologies *were* just as bad, but have reformed. They are no less bullshit today, but they agree with separation of Church and State. No-one in the mainstream of these religions contests this. Furthermore, both of these assert no authority over non-believers.

      Islam is very very much different because while it is also superstitious nonsense it claims to be the divine and unalterable word of Allah (who, as the sites I point out, *cannot* be the same as the God of Abraham, no matter what the Muslims claim). That means that there is no moderate Islam and there never will be. Everyone who talks about "moderate Islam" is simply revealing they don't know even the basics about Islamic doctrine. The other aspect of Islam, and this is what makes it worse than the others, is that it is a totalitarian *political* system. There is no separation of mosque from state and there cannot ever be (temporarily, yes; permanently, no). Because Islam is a political system it asserts that it has the right to impose its system over non-Muslims as well as Muslims. I bet you didn't understand this aspect of Islam. Why? because the mainstream media is either clueless to this fact, or they don't report on it. Go ahead for yourself and look at Sura 9:5 and 9:29. These Sura "abrogate" (that is, replace) all the peaceful verses in the Koran. This abrogation is why Islam claims to be a "progressively revealed" religion. As time goes on in the West (and even still in Islamic countries) we are seeing more and more of the Islamic system (under Sharia) revealed as time goes on. This is called the "Milestones process" (something from core Islamic doctrine - and very very well explained by Major Stephen Coughlin on YouTube - whose job it was to understand Islam).

      Look, you would like to believe that Islam is being mistaken and really is a "religion of peace" as the taqiyya-practicing apologists claim. I would like Islam to be a religion of peace too. The fact is, it simply isn't. It is a totalitarian theocratic political system that disguises itself on purpose - but intends the subjugation of the whole World under the Islamic political system and Sharia (their barbaric law). It is the goal of every Muslim to bring this about, sooner or later.

      yes, I know this is hard for you to swallow, because it is incomprehensible that Islam is that bad. But it really is. The reason I hate the political ideology is not because I don't understand it - it is because I understand it very very well. Note also that when the media use the word "extremists" they are lying to you (because Muslim advisors lie to the media). The jihadis are practicing "mainstream" Islam - there is nothing extreme about their interpretation of Islam at all. After 9/11 the US Pentagon realised it knew virtually nothing about Islam, so they set to work to study it so as to find out why Al Qaeda has twisted the religion for evil. You know what they found? That Al Qaeda had mis-interpreted nothing, they were truer to the doctrine of Islam than most Muslims. As the Turkish Prime Minister famously said a few years back (I'm paraphrasing), "There are moderate Muslims, but there is no moderate Islam. Islam is Islam".

      So, we can agree that the Torah and Bible contain much badness. Fortunately its practitioners follow them as personal faiths and stay their commandments are not used to set policy. You are also free to point out the shortcomings in these faiths. I hope I have now explained to you how Islam is *very* different. Its *explicitly* stated aim is first to take over states and then the whole world - and subjugate Muslims and non-Muslims alike to its political system. Can you se

    19. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From one of your other posts, a lot of which seem to be about Judaism:
      "yes, I can provide citations, or you could just head over to Breitbart to get the facts yourself"
      So it really doesn't matter what you have to say, you're what's known as a 'Fucking Idiot".

    20. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Loki_666 · · Score: 1

      Also note that despite the claims of the Muslims that Allah is the God of Abraham, this claim must be false when scriptures are compared. See the following for such a comparison, which concludes based on Islamic sources that Allah and YHWH cannot be be same (in fact, Allah has the *opposite* attributes of YHWH, read into that what you will): http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm [answering-islam.org]

      Well, you can analyze it in any way you want, but since Islamic scriptures came much later, and built in the early Hebrew texts (especially the first 5 books of the OT), its pretty clear they started out as being the same deity. They just diverged.

      You can say the same about Judaism and Christianity. Judaism doesn't accept the NT, so their god remains the old style god of rages and genocide whereas the Christians have their lovey dovey god who loves us all and forgives us (but still better pray otherwise your ass will fry in hell).

      Its not so different to comparing Osiris with Jupiter with Zeus.

    21. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by peppepz · · Score: 1

      In contrast, Islam uses the word "Allah", which comes from "il illah", "The (One) God", which is a title and not a personal name. Also note that despite the claims of the Muslims that Allah is the God of Abraham, this claim must be false when scriptures are compared.

      Christian Arabs used the name Allah to designate the christian God long before Islam even existed.

    22. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by JakeBurn · · Score: 1

      Thank you for spending all that time getting around the fact that scripture is what matters to people that believe and you couldn't come up with a single verse to back up God making Evil or the Bible saying God is responsible for everything. Good job.

    23. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by DrXym · · Score: 1

      "The problem is that none of the mythologies make any sense unless you are already a believer." Kindly wish to back that up? Simply repeating ignorant arguments that you've heard like a parrot is meaningless. Including your next bit of ignorance:

      It's a statement of fact and demonstrable. Virtually every religious text makes assertions of the supernatural, of things which are not supported by the available evidence, things which are almost by definition contradictory to other religious texts. Often these texts aren't even consistent with themselves and replete with contradictions and absurditites. Websites like the Skeptics Annotated Bible (which has a section on the Quran) list thousands of them should you be in any doubt.

      Simply put the Quran, Torah and Christian Bible have as much reason to believe they are the word of god as every other. Which is to say precisely zero. They all require people to buy into the story, in its truth and invest themselves in that story despite the absence of evidence. To have faith in other words. I wonder if there will be people fighting and killing each other in 2000 years over whether Harry Potter, Yoda or Gandalf is the one true lord.

    24. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Well, you can analyze it in any way you want, but since Islamic scriptures came much later, and built in the early Hebrew texts (especially the first 5 books of the OT), its pretty clear they started out as being the same deity. They just diverged.

      Actually, you are merely repeating the false claim. Allah comes from Il illah, a moon god of the pagan Quresh who inhabited Mecca (this pagan origin is why the moon is the symbol of Islam; similarly Christ has a life story very similar to the Egyptian Horus - they are all bunk). Il Illah had three daughters. Mohammed made Il Illah his chief god and then *later* shoehorned that into the claim that this was the same as the God of Abraham. I've already given a site that compares the scriptures of Islam vs Judaism+Christianity. Just because it is *claimed* they are the same, does not name them the same - particularly when Allah is mentioned numerous times as "The Greatest of Deceivers" whereas YHWH cannot lie. They are fundamentally incompatible - in the sense that they are opposites (hence, Allah can be considered as a candidate for the Christian Satan, despite protestations otherwise).

      So you can repeat your claim again that YHWH and Allah are the same, but it simply is not true. They have totally different origins and the claim of equivalence was added later by Mohammed (and rejected by the Jews, who also rejected Mohammed as a false prophet; which is why Muslims hate Jews to this day).

    25. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      As I said, Il Illah is a title. In the time of Mohammed Il Illah was still a pagan moon god (hence the moon as the symbol of Islam). Mohammed claimed that the moon god Il Illah was the same as the god of abraham - but I've already pointed to a scriptural analysis that shows this is not possible (La Yumkin!). As Eastern Christians were subjugated under Islamic imperial rule as dhimmis they were forced (on pain of death) to translate God/Deus/Theos as Allah. However, the attributes of Allah as listed in Islamic texts were always counter to these enumerated in the Torah and Christian scripts. Allah cannot be YHWH !

    26. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by gtall · · Score: 1

      Funny, when I google "Il Illah moon god" I get a wikipedia page which says that notion is being mainly promoted by a Christian evangelical, Robert Morey...he has a book "The moon-god Allah in the archeology of the Middle East".

      So I think we can safely can your moon god theory as a Christian wet dream.

      Just for the record, Islam is evil, but not because it has the wrong god or whatever. It is evil because of what it does to women, minorities, free thinkers, gays, etc.

    27. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thank you for spending all that time getting around the fact that scripture is what matters to people that believe

      Given your use of terms, I'm going to assume you're arguing from a Christian (and not Judaic) position.

      The sola scriptura doctrine was not particularly strong until the Reformation, when Martin Luther championed it. For most of the history of the church, and still in the Catholic, Orthodox, and many Protestant Churches (Episicopal, Methodist, etc.), church tradition has also been an essential source for understanding Christianity. There has been a very strong tradition of the smartest Christian theologians debating the "Problem of Evil" for all of church history. (For the record, the rabbinical tradition in Judaism has done similar things.)

      Whether YOU think it's a problem or not is irrelevant. Perhaps in whatever branch of Christianity you believe in, it isn't perceived to be a problem. Fine. But for the vast majority of Christian theologians throughout history, it was something that merited significant discussion.

      and you couldn't come up with a single verse to back up God making Evil or the Bible saying God is responsible for everything. Good job.

      It's not my job to educate you on the basics of your religion. Nor is it my job to READ for you -- did you even look at the links I gave in my post?

      If you skimmed the "Problem of Evil" article, you'd discover that there are in fact parts of the Bible that many people have interpreted to imply that God is the ultimate source of Evil.

      The most obvious example (discussed in the link) is the entire book of Job, where God is the one responsible for inflicting all manner of bad acts upon Job's family. When Job -- who according to scripture itself, did nothing wrong to deserve this -- dares to question God's plan, God just yells at him from a whirlwind for a while, saying essentially, "Were you there when I laid the foundations of the world??" Implication: You have no concept of how great my power is or why I need to wield it in certain ways. And if I decide to inflict evil into the world, or even on you and your family, that's my business... you can't hope to understand why.

      Again, just going on sources mentioned in my link, another common passage discussed is Isaiah 45:7: "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things." And there are plenty more verses that other theologians have discussed in this context.

      And please note that I'm not the one interpreting these passages to imply that God created evil -- it's many Christian theologians who debate these points. I wouldn't presume to interpret the Bible for you, but you have to acknowledge that a lot of smart Christians -- who probably know a lot more about the Bible than you do -- have seen problems here.

      By the way, you're the one skirting the logical problem here, which is perhaps what troubled Christian philosophers the most. Regardless of what scripture says, if a Christian believes in an all-powerful and all-knowing God, that God should have the power to create good things. For some reason, he chose to create humans that could also do evil. From scripture, it seems implied that he created the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the book of Genesis, so it appears he even made it possible for humans to acquire the knowledge to do evil. (Of course, in the story, Satan is involved in this acquisition, but most Christian theologians acknowledge that Satan too much have been created by the all-powerful God, so that tempting toward evil must also have ultimately been part of God's creation.) Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing, and presumably all-good God choose to create beings that MIGHT do evil?

      "The Problem of Evil" is a major theological conundrum that philosophers have debated for centuries. The fact that you think you solved it in a couple sentences speaks of great ignorance and great arrogance.

    28. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      "What Andy giveth, Bill taketh away..."

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    29. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fourteen Centuries vs. Fourteenth Amendment: Is the Constitution a Suicide Pact? (read: "The bigots were right all along!")

    30. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      As a Christian, I applaud your calm & rational response.

      You are completely correct that these issues are for us to wrestle with, not compel others to explain to us.

      None the less, you've explained well & correctly the history of the church & the issues the deal with.

      I wish my fellow Christian Americans would realize that the Christianity they practice in the USA can be quite different than the versions that are practiced around the world, and that this is OK.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    31. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Arker · · Score: 1

      "I know you don't get it. That's why you struggle to understand how Islam is different to the others. You see, the other mythologies *were* just as bad, but have reformed. They are no less bullshit today, but they agree with separation of Church and State. No-one in the mainstream of these religions contests this. Furthermore, both of these assert no authority over non-believers. "

      There are actually around a dozen explicitly Christian nations, and quite a few more that despite separating church and state at some level nonetheless have recognised national churches. Judaism, or at least the Orthodox Rabbinate, has a state as well.

      The fundamentalist Muslims are typically Salafists or Wahhabis. Those sects are a tiny minority. The largest sect of Islam is the Sufis. They are often targets of terror attacks, fundamentalists hate them.

      The danger here is that if we believe the nonsense you believe, it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. The majority of muslims are moderate, but enough indiscriminate bombing and we might just be able to reverse that...

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    32. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by cusco · · Score: 1

      Imaginary people that talk to schizophrenics and tell them to commit atrocities? They sound the same to me.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    33. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by dmonney · · Score: 1

      close, but no. You will see YHWH in the torah and sometimes prounounced in ceremony. But they did not go back and add vowels to it like they did the rest, because that would pervert the original name if someone read it. So what they did was add in the vowels for a different word "adoni" (king of kings) so you end up with a wierd conglomeration.-Yahoha. When the wierd conglomeration was read by a german monk, he pronounced it Jehova, unfortunatly the name stuck and we christians have yet another way to look like idiots to the jews.

      --
      --Accept it, I'm a programmer and don't use spellcheck. As long as I spell things wrong consistently my programs work fi
    34. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by dmonney · · Score: 1

      Queue Music *** "Andy walks with me, Andy talks with me..."

      --
      --Accept it, I'm a programmer and don't use spellcheck. As long as I spell things wrong consistently my programs work fi
    35. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Where do you think the moon crescent in the Islamic symbology came from? I agree that Islam is evil for the same reasons you do. I'm not an evangelical. Even if I was, that would not stop Islam being wrong or the origins of their religion being pagan (I was merely pointing this out - that many of their claims are simply *false*). So we can agree.

    36. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Muslims (people) may or may not be moderate. Islam (a totalitarian political ideology) is not moderate. You are falling for a fallacy. Incidentally, a Pew survey a few weeks ago came up with figures that globally 25% of Muslims agree with jihad asghar (the violent one). That means that of the 1.5 billion Muslims around 400 million would happily kill you (thinking they go straight to paradise) if they got the chance. Who cares how many are moderate - it is the ones that are dangerous that you must work to defeat. You fall for another fallacy where you think that the actions we take can stop them, if we just surrender enough then it will all go away. This is ridiculous - they've been working toward global domination for 1400 years and won't stop just because we say nice things. Wake up foolish people!

    37. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by oreiasecaman · · Score: 1

      Of course Gandalf is The One True Lord. Worshipping of Harry Potter and Yoda is a serious, serious sin... repent!!

      --
      This is a UDP joke, I don't care if you get it or not...
    38. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by metaforest · · Score: 1

      "What Andy giveth, Bill taketh away..."

      I see what you did there. Clever.

    39. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Arker · · Score: 1

      I did not in any way suggest surrendering anything. You rant nonsense. It's not a fallacy - it's not that good! You arent even making sense, you are just drooling hatred.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    40. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Please provide a counter survey to the Pew survey that disproves my statement. You are going on "what you think you know" about Islam, not on the facts. You think I want Islam to be evil? no, I don't. I wish it was about rainbows and unicorns and sitting around a camp fire singing Kumbaya. But the *reality* is it is not. It is about jihad, and war against kufr unbelievers until they are all subjugated into the Islamic political system (a work in progress), and killing of homosexuals (still practiced), and chopping off of hands and feet on opposite sides (still practiced), oppression of women (practiced), slavery (practiced in Sudan etc, will be brought back once the Islamists are strong enough), stoning of adulterers (still practiced), killing of those who are openly apostates or atheists (still practiced). Read the Qur'an, hadiths and sira yourself - it is all there for those that have understanding of what the phrases mean (eg. talk about "those that have gone astray" in the Muslim prayer is an insult Christians, there is a similar insult to Jews).

      So stop going on what you *think* you know - and check out the facts from sources that aren't practicing taqiyya on you. Look translations of the statements that Muslims make for consumption by other Muslims. You will be horrified. So stop trying to defend this evil just because you are ignorant about the true nature of Islam.

    41. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Loki_666 · · Score: 1

      Then why do they share the same prophets (up to a point) and have the same origin story?

      There may be different deities which influenced the overall design of the relative gods, but there is just much in parallel between them to deny the connection. I mean, they are both the god of Abraham... was Abraham seeing other gods behind Yahweh's back? ,

    42. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

      Loki, you are confusing "claims" they have the same prophets and same god as being the same as "actually" having the same message and god. I've already posted a link that thoroughly debunks the Muslims claim that they worship the God of Abraham - and this debunking is done using Muslims sources. I'll repeat it here for your convenience:
      http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/god.htm

    43. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by Loki_666 · · Score: 1

      Then the wikipedia article on Islam is wrong?

      They do not consider Abraham as the first prophet? I suggest you go edit the wikipedia page and correct it then.

      Muslims believe that God is one and incomparable and the purpose of existence is to love and serve God.[1] Muslims also believe that Islam is the complete and universal version of a primordial faith that was revealed at many times and places before, including through Abraham, Moses and Jesus, whom they consider prophets.[2]

    44. Re:YHWH: the name above all [other] names by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 0

      This is how it is, Islam "claims" that Allah is the same as the God of Abraham (YHWH). However, close examination of the scriptures of Islam and the Torah&Bible show that Allah *cannot* be the same as YHWH. For example, Allah is described numerous times as the "greatest of deceivers", while the Torah describes the the God of Abraham as being unable to lie. There are numerous contradictions between Allah and YHWH according to the scriptures. So if YHWH has attributes that are opposite to that those of Allah it means that YHWH and Allah are not the same - and the claim made by Islam is false (just as the claim that Mohammed was a prophet in the Judaic are claimed but also false: the prophets in Abrahamic faiths are descendents of a particular bloodline, and can usually perform miracles - Mohammed does none of these. Mohammed also sets by personal example and teaches many things against Mosaic Law [The Ten Commandments] and the example of Jesus - in fact, you can consider Mohammed to be an 'anti-christ' since the things the hadiths say he did are completely against the example set by Judaism and Christianity [banditry, torture, burning people alive, having a breastfeeding woman pulled limb from limb, ordering assinations, marrying his son's wife, child sex with 9 year old Aisha, keeping slaves and having sex with them, deceptive treaties, worshiping the moon god of his tribe "Il illah", bowing down before the black stone of mecca, etc etc])

      So, please understand what is "claimed" by Islam is not the same as what is true about Islam. If you god is the "greatest of deceivers" does that suprise you that so many are misled? The ideology called Islam is simply deceptive and evil. The more you learn about its underpinnings the worse it gets. To bad many simply accept its claims (eg. the wikipedia editors) without investigating whether the claims are true or not. With Islam so many claimed things are lies.

  12. Re:How does this help? by Joshua+Fan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Should all of mankind's endeavors grind to a halt until the world is in a state of perfect harmony and prosperity?

    Humans, in our great numbers, are capable of multi-tasking. Is every penny not spent on helping the helpless a selfish waste?

    An infinite amount of money cannot solve all of the world's problems in a day, and there are more problems everyday. More often it is not a question of money but of resources, money is only a means to trade for such finite resources. With finite resources like time, energy, innovation, and persuasion, every do-gooder has to pick their battles.

  13. Re:How does this help? by Nyder · · Score: 0

    And how will this help the 10,000 children who die of starvation everyday through no fault of their own?

    Well, if it's religious texts, then it can save their souls so they go to heaven. Small comfort when your starving to death, i know, but think of the children (in heaven)!!!!!

    --
    Be seeing you...
  14. Sheep cheese? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this like Venezuelan Beaver Cheese?

    1. Re:Sheep cheese? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just when you think the internet has run out of weird fetishes...

  15. Seriously, editors? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "around the world since it's discovery"

    *its

  16. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wasting Money and Machines on this nonsense? Who benefits from this? Is there a lost way to make money buried in those pieces of Garbage?

  17. Now now by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    In Rainbows End, Vernor Vinge talks about a hypothetical technology to digitize books that involves sending them through a shredder which flings the confetti up in the air where high-speed, high-res cameras digitize it and the computers de-puzzle piece it.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  18. Life imitating art by mrbester · · Score: 1

    Didn't Stephen Dorff do this in Blade?

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  19. Re:I know what they say by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

    I always suspected the hats were to cover bald spots, is there a formal reason for them other than tradition?

    There's nothing in the Torah about head coverings, so it is a tradition and not really biblical Jewish law. One source is that Christians had the practice of always removing their hats when they went inside. Just to be different, the Jewish tradition of always keeping your head covered was started.

  20. Nontrinitarianism is another possibility by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    Not all Christians interpret the Bible to teach a "trinity". Jehovah's Witnesses, for example, interpret John 1 to mean that in the beginning, God (i.e. YHWH) created the Word (i.e. Michael), created all other things through the Word, and later the Word became flesh (i.e. Jesus). Thus Jesus and YHWH "are one" (John 10:30) in the same sense that Jesus and the congregation are one (John 17:21-23).

    1. Re:Nontrinitarianism is another possibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Their founder was also unable to read Hebrew, yet claimed to have translated the Bible, FWIW.

    2. Re:Nontrinitarianism is another possibility by tepples · · Score: 1

      Are you referring to Fred Franz? For one thing, he was not a founder of JW; Mr. Russell and Mr. Rutherford were. For another, translating from Hebrew to English and from English to Hebrew are two separate skills. The former is needed for a Bible translation. The latter is what was asked of him in the Walsh trial, and with an especially difficult passage at that.

  21. Re:Religion = Dumb shit for feces brains by JakeBurn · · Score: 0

    I feel the same way about people who actually use the Post Anonymously check box instead of standing behind what they believe.

  22. They will be disappointed by codepigeon · · Score: 1

    I have seen it before. They will put in all their hopes and angst, only to find that the text reads: "Don't forget to drink your Ovaltine".

  23. Boycott Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surely this will be modded down by the JIDF, but stop covering Israel until they ease up on the human rights violations.

    1. Re:Boycott Israel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it's terrible how they're randomly rocketing the civilian population- no, wait, that's the Palestinians doing that human rights violation.

      Oh, I know- it's terrible how they're sneaking up to houses and shooting and stabbing women and children- oh, sorry, that's a Palestinian human rights violation again. My bad (well theirs really).

      Oooh, here it is- It's terrible how the Israelis are providing free medical care for Syrian refugees! Shameful! It's outra- oh wait, that's not a violation it's actually really nice of them.

      Um, can you be specific about which human rights violations you're accusing the Israelis of? And can you explain why your panties aren't in such a knot over the terrible human rights violations committed by the Palestinians?

  24. Saying the names of god, all 9 \times 10^9 of them by girlinatrainingbra · · Score: 4, Informative
    Say, have you ever read The Nine Billion Names of God ? It's a short story by Arthur C. Clarke, and just like in "2001", he somehow manages to get IBM involved in the storyline!!!

    Perhaps it's a fear of the end of the world that leads to such superstitions such as not saying god's name, or in Harry potter stories the continual references to "He who shall not be named" for [spoiler alert!!!] Voldemort (vol-de-mort? flight of death? orgasm? wtf???]

    The summary from wikipedia:

    This short story tells of a Tibetan lamasery whose monks seek to list all of the Names of God, since they believe the Universe was created in order to note all the names of God and once this naming is completed, God will bring the Universe to an end. Three centuries ago, the monks created an alphabet in which they calculated they could encode all the possible names of God, numbering about 9,000,000,000 ("nine billion") and each having no more than nine characters. Writing the names out by hand, as they had been doing, even after eliminating various nonsense combinations, would take another 15,000 years; the monks wish to use modern technology in order to finish this task more quickly.

    .

    They rent a computer capable of printing all the possible permutations, and they hire two Westerners to install and program the machine. The computer operators are skeptical but play along. After three months, as the job nears completion, they fear that the monks will blame the computer, and by extension its operators, when nothing happens. The Westerners delay the operation of the computer so that it will complete its final print run just after their scheduled departure. After their successful departure on ponies, they pause on the mountain path on their way back to the airfield, where a plane is waiting to take them back to civilization. Under a clear night sky they estimate that it must be just about the time that the monks are pasting the final printed names into their holy books. Then they notice that ''overhead, without any fuss, the stars were going out.''

  25. Re:Religion = Dumb shit for feces brains by Osgeld · · Score: 3

    yea but fortunately there are only a few thousand of those, vs hundreds of millions of the other

  26. Re:How does this help? by Osgeld · · Score: 2

    it is their fault, for some, the notion that childeren can not go out and do something productive until they hit the arbitrary made up age of adulthood is compete tripe

    hey billy, you live in a hut made from garbage, your hungry, what are you going to do... sit on your ass begging for handouts like your parents? fine, why should I feel sorry for you?

  27. Paper shredder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So what happened? Did someone invent a paper shredder in 1895?

  28. Re:Saying the names of god, all 9 \times 10^9 of t by SplashMyBandit · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the story. I'm sure Arthur C Clarke got the idea of the (alleged) power of God's name from Judaism. Anyone who knows anything about Judaism knows this (although that is becoming increasingly rarer in the West as it progressively comes more 'Judenrein' [Jew free] as the Jews flee persecution today [eg. Arab countries are becoming more and more jew and Christian free as time goes on; all the Jews have left Norway due to Muslim immigrant persecution and the fact the native Norwegians are too politically correct/weak to stand up and stop it], etc.).

  29. Jewish supremacists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if these 'new' documents will tell Jews that they are even more important than they already think they are- perhaps, as well as telling them that they are "God's chosen people" (how modest), they will say that the life of a 'goyim' (that's a non-Jew) isn't worth even the fingernail of a Jew, something crazy like that...

    www.prothink.org

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gets 29 standing ovations from Congress:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asGvjbfIASA

    1. Re:Jewish supremacists by kbx911 · · Score: 0

      screw teh jews

  30. Re:I know what they say by Gumbercules!! · · Score: 1

    Yarmulke are worn as a sign of subservience to God. Back in the day, when the tradition was adopted, servants wore head-coverings. Jews adopted the head coverings as a sign of service to God. I imagine the Catholic Pope's & Co. wear them for a similar reason. Today, they have the status of "minhag", effectively meaning they're an adopted tradition that now has the status of law.

  31. Why not just sell them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just sell them as jigsaw puzzles and offer a reward for the correct solution. Honestly, people think too much about things sometimes.

  32. Re:Religion = Dumb shit for feces brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I feel the same way about people who actually use the Post Anonymously check box instead of standing behind what they believe.

    1. He's a Troll
    2. My arguments can stand or fall on their own merits, they don't require anyone to stand behind them.
    3. The only reason you want his identity is so you can launch personal attacks. Since you don't have it, you chose to attack that instead. Which makes you no different than him.

  33. Re:Religion = Dumb shit for feces brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, I prefer trolls that stand behind their filth (like Chrisq & his rampant racism) so that I can flag them a foe & not have to read what they have to say. Unfortunately many ACs post insightful comments & merely post AC to avoid the personal attacks you mentioned (so I don't just -1 the lot of them).

  34. This tech would be useful ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. for my pron collection. Need to sort and assemble.

  35. Re:Religion = Dumb shit for feces brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Aw, cut the guy some slack, he can't even structure a sentence in such a way that it's readable. Ironic, someone who can barely read is calling 1/3 of the world's population dumb shits.

    And, he might not be logged in. I'm not, can't on this machine.

  36. Re:Saying the names of god, all 9 \times 10^9 of t by cusco · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but the Jews were not the only religious group to place inordinate importance on discovering the 'true' name of something and thereby exerting control over it. I'm sure you'll claim that European Wiccan tradition and Asian magical traditions got the idea from Judaism, but there are many Native American stories of Crow or Coyote discovering the name of a new animal and accessing its power. I believe the Aborigines of Australia have similar stories. It's more likely that Clarke got his inspiration from Asian traditions (which he was very interested in) than Judaism.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  37. Re:How does this help? by cusco · · Score: 1

    Damn, so much stupid in such a short post. That's quite a talent.

    --
    "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
  38. Problem of evil is problem of free will by tepples · · Score: 1

    the entire book of Job, where God is the one responsible for inflicting all manner of bad acts upon Job's family.

    God isn't responsible for inflicting ills. Satan is responsible for it; God allows it to happen. See chapter 11 of "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" for one denomination's view of the problem of evil.

    Why would an all-powerful, all-knowing, and presumably all-good God choose to create beings that MIGHT do evil?

    If God wanted robots, he would have made robots. Instead, he wanted creatures who sincerely love him back, so he made creatures capable of acting on free will.

    1. Re:Problem of evil is problem of free will by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      God isn't responsible for inflicting ills. Satan is responsible for it; God allows it to happen.

      This is sophistry. Here's what happens: Satan approaches God. God says, "What do ya think of Job? Good guy, huh?" Satan says, "He only acts good because you're nice to him. Let me beat the crap out of him and kill his family. Then we'll see whether he's still a nice guy to you." God says, "Sure! Sounds like a great bet."

      Not only does God allow the torture of one of his most devout followers (as well as the killing of all of his livestock and family), but he even has a kind of bet going on with Satan about how long Job can hang on. Since God clearly has all the power here (I'd think of him sort of like a mafia boss in this story), what he says and what he allows goes. Claiming that Satan is fully responsible is a little ridiculous, and even if he was, who created Satan again? Who gave Satan the power to do these evil things?

      And when poor ole Job has the audacity to say, "Gee Whiz, God, I'm having a pretty crappy day," God just yells down and says, "Ya don't understand! I got stuff to do. Creator stuff. Important stuff. Are YOU questioning my judgment? I got stuff to do -- like making random bets with Satan about what you'd do if someone beat the crap out of you."

      See chapter 11 of "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" for one denomination's view of the problem of evil.

      As I said in my previous posts, there are many theological perspectives on how to deal with the problem of evil. In fact, they are so common that there is a specific term for them: theodicy.

      If God wanted robots, he would have made robots. Instead, he wanted creatures who sincerely love him back, so he made creatures capable of acting on free will.

      Yes, this is one solution, and a common one. But this solution generally does not deny that God is the ultimate creator of evil (which is what my posts were responding to). After all, not only did he make these "creatures" with free will, but he placed a tree in a garden that would educate them on how to do evil. And then a serpent (which God also presumably created at some point) comes along and gets the creatures to learn about evil from the tree.

      But I don't think the story told in your link is a great analogy. For one, God isn't a teacher trying to maintain control of a classroom -- he's supposed to be a supreme being with unlimited power. If that's true, the logic of limited beings like teachers probably shouldn't apply.

      And second, the teacher story seems to ignore the fact that God gave Adam and Eve a tree to teach them about evil. It's not like a teacher dealing with a random rebellious student -- it's more like a teacher who gives a couple students a naughty book, but tells them NOT to read it, and then when they bring it to class and try to disrupt things with it, he does actually cast them out of the classroom, curses the womb of the woman and gives her pain in childbirth, etc.... all to teach a lesson to others.

      I'm not going to debate this issue further, because that was not the point of my posts -- I was merely pointing out that the problem of evil actually does exist, and historically it has worried a lot of Christians.

  39. Re:I know what they say by Arker · · Score: 1

    Even overcooked it is hardly a great food. And cooking does nothing to mitigate the health threat of living pigs in the area. Pigs are noted for how similar their flesh is to that of humans - this is why they are so useful in medical research aimed at human ailments, and also why it is relatively easy for diseases to cross the species boundary - in either direction. A pig stye in the neighborhood is a considerably more serious threat to public health than, say, cattle, goat, or sheep husbandry would pose.

    There is ample reason to think that pork tastes like human flesh as well. Havent sampled the long pig myself and not recommending it, but historical records indicate that when cannibals are no longer able to procure it they universally determine pork to the be the only substitute. This has happened in Mexico and Papua in very different time frames. So there is certainly a potential spiritual issue as well for those that think 'bacon is delicious.'

    There is plenty of apparently crazy stuff in the Torah to blame G_d for without dissing one of the rules that DO make sense both scientifically and spiritually.

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    Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
  40. Re:Religion = Dumb shit for feces brains by alexo · · Score: 1

    The only reason you want his identity is so you can launch personal attacks

    Perhaps it was the GP's reason, but some of us would like to label the ACs (at least the coherent ones) because it is hard to hold a meaningful conversation with a horde of Spartacuses.