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Mozilla Plans Major Design Overhaul With Firefox 25 Release In October

Posted by Soulskill on from the taking-cues dept.

An anonymous reader writes "Mozilla is planning a major design overhaul of its flagship browser with the release of Firefox 25, slated to arrive in October. The company makes a point to discuss its plans for changes openly, and this upcoming new version is by no means an exception. In fact, even though Firefox 22 is in the Beta channel, Firefox 23 is in the Aurora channel, and Firefox 24 is in the Nightly channel, Mozilla has set up a special Nightly UX channel for Firefox 25. Grab it here."

42 of 250 comments (clear)

  1. Finally looks exactly like Chrome by CastrTroy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From the screenshot, it looks like they are finally completing the project of making Firefox completely indistinguishable from Chrome.

    --

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    1. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Dracos · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, they made a lot of bad stuff fashionable. The only thing they did right was "Paste & Go" on the location bar context menu.

    2. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Nadaka · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The address bar is for addresses. It is a horrible horrible UI mistake to have turned it into a search feature. The url is correct or it isn't. Don't bullshit around with it.

    3. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Synerg1y · · Score: 4, Informative

      coincidentally, IE gets confused on the corporate intranet with aliases seemingly all the time, where i have to put the http:/// in there to show I'm not searching for a corporate server on google.

    4. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Synerg1y · · Score: 2

      Actually, it's called an address bar, not a search bar. By your logic, why don't we just open our OS's with a single blinking cursor and imply what we want by typing it in. Thankfully we moved away from that in the 90s, lets not re-invent history.

    5. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by EvanED · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't like the "type in something and it will search" much, but what I do really like is the named searches you can do from it. For me, "g " will search Google, "w " wikipedia, "nws " will bring up the weather forecast, etc.

      It's almost like a command line for common searches, and the space means it basically can't be confused with a URL.

    6. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Actually, on Chrome, it's not an address bar, it's the Omnibox. The browser only tries to use the input as an URI if none of the installed extensions matches the keyword used. Technically, there is no address bar.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by EvanED · · Score: 2

      Oh good... this should have said, for example "g <blah<" and "g <zip>", etc.

    8. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      Yes. And that makes it a horrible horrible UI mistake. Search and URL are two very different things and should never ever be entered from the same UI element.

    9. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by robmv · · Score: 3, Insightful

      not useless for me, it allow me to write things in the URL without sending every keystroke to Google, you know, like which host names I write there. The integrated search and URL field on Chrome behaves for me like the Ubuntu integrated search. I don't want to send everything I write there to Google. You can disable this in Chrome but you loose search predictions, so or you send eveything or we (Google) will not give you predictions. With Firefox I have predictions without sending every keystroke when I write a url

    10. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The problem with Chrome is its complete lack of user customization. Compare that to Firefox (and Opera) where an about:config lets you change nearly anything.

      Perhaps the thing that bothered me most about Chrome is there was no option to change history to:

      Keep cookies
      Keep downloads
      But don't keep a log of the pages I've visited and don't change the colour of URLs that I've already clicked on (yeah, I know its minor but it bugs the crap out of me)

      Instead, Google thinks you either need to be in super-secret-pr0n-surfing mode or keep a log of anything you visited (and show it in the address bar when you're searching).

      Heck, I think even IE lets me have more control of my browsing history than Chrome does!

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    11. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Nadaka · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its completely broken with perfectly legitimate local DNS URLs. And can also error on IP addresses entered manually.

      Like it or not, it breaks standards. That may be cool with you, but its worth shit to anyone who is more than a trivial user.

    12. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by aix+tom · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In the comparison with ls and cat, a unified search/url input in the same GUI element you would basically have to type something like "http://xxxxx" to go to an url ans something like "search://xxxxx" to do a search, wo work like the CLI. There is a huge difference between "ls 30_gig_file" or "cat 30_gig_file" or even "rm 30_gig_file". You have to tell the software somehow to do WHAT action with WHICH object when you want to be sure about the result.

      So far in the browser there where two fields for the two different actions ( directly navigate somewhere / search for something. ) The problem is when the software tries to "guess" what you want to do. Either the guessing algorithm is dumb, and annoys the user, or it is really sophisticated, in which case it took probably away a huge amount of developer manpower to implement in a way that pleases both the "I want to shop for something vague" vague user and the "Shit, the system is down, we are losing $100,000 a minute, and this shitty browser is trying to do a search, which he can't do since the connection to the internet is down, and locks up while waiting for the time-out, instead of just going to the web fronted for the NAS!!".

    13. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by EvanED · · Score: 2

      Can't do that by mashing keywords into the URL bar (as far as I know).

      You can.

      In Firefox, go to any website you want to set up a search for, right click on the search box, and choose "add keyword for this search". If you add, say, a keyword of "g" on Google, then "g foo" in your address bar will search Google. In Chrome, you'll choose "add as search engine."

    14. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by pla · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hey now, whipper-snapper! We greybeards use IP addresses, not these new-fangled "names" you weak kids seem to need to find anything.

      Now quick, calculate the tip on a $27.50 meal, without asking Siri!

    15. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Nadaka · · Score: 2

      I am only being inflexible because they BROKE URL's.

      Perfectly valid url's and in some cases perfectly valid IP addresses that I can not force to behave correctly in the browser by ANY means.

      I type in what and I should navigate to what or get a server not found.

      If I type in http://what just to be sure, I shouldn't be googling "what" (firefox) or going to what.com (chrome).

      Damn right I am inflexible. This shit is deliberately broken, and there is not one valid reason or excuse for it.

    16. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Sloppy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Safari 6 has a bug like that. I think Safari is overall a fine browser, and I use to be very happy to use it as an alternative to Firefox's slow pokey waitiness. But it has a one-two combination of Amazing Stupidity, which make it virtually unusable for me.

      1) It removes the protocol from the URL bar, so that entering (or clicking a link to) "http://example" becomes "example" in the URL bar. That's unnecessary and could never possibly be useful, but nevertheless, alone it would be mostly harmless.

      2) It asks some search engine what the things in the URL bar mean, if you don't enter a protocol. That's unnecessary and not very useful, but alone it would be mostly harmless.

      Together, they add up to lethal unusability.

      If I go to "http://example?foo=bar1" then it works. But if I then I change bar1 to bar2 and hit enter, it goes to something like "http://google.com/?q=example%3Ffoo=bar2"

      Stupid, stupid, stupid. (And Safari 4 didn't have this bug. Never tried 5.) This one thing, switched me to Chrome at work. And it discourages firing up Safari to test things. Guess what that means for run-of-the-mill users. I really hope someone at Apple got fired over this staggering incompetence. If not, then in a few years, Mac OS will be about as useful as iOS, i.e. not at all.

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    17. Re:Finally looks exactly like Chrome by Xest · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Presumably because they think it'll stop the haemorrhaging of users to Chrome.

      Ironically though it'll do the opposite, if Firefox looks like Chrome then I might as well just start using Chrome as that's the last thing stopping me switching to Chrome.

  2. Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Fuck me, curved tabs instead of square ones. This major change has totally changed my mind about Firefox.

  3. More change for change's sake? by Hsien-Ko · · Score: 2

    If you do this to Seamonkey.... then I don't know what i'm going to do.

    1. Re:More change for change's sake? by Megane · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I came here to post a similar comment. Keep your damn fingers off of my Seamonkey, you god-damned dirty apes. It's the last bastion for those of us who want an old-school browser.

      Also, "What, another major design overhaul? How many is that so far in the past 2-3 years?"

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  4. For a certain definition of "design" by SirGarlon · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Based on the headline, I mistook this story for something that might interest me.

    From TFA, it's clear that the design overhaul refers to design in the sense of "graphic design," i.e., superficial appearance, not design in the sense of software architecture. So the headline would be better phrased, "Mozilla is planning changes in how the browser looks."

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  5. From experience by Synerg1y · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't redesign the UI once it's accepted by the users, you can't possibly improve it, it's already been accepted... just add features as you need to and stay within the design constraints of the UI.

    However, if their goal is to have new devs join their team and venting their frustration, then... score!

    1. Re:From experience by game+kid · · Score: 3, Funny

      8 or 8.1?

      Yes.

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    2. Re:From experience by Darkness404 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exactly.

      Once something has been learned, its really hard to un-learn it. I don't care if your alternative solution is "better" or not its automatically less usable because I have to change my muscle memory. Incremental changes can be good and in places where the "normal" UI hasn't been solidified change can be good! For example, with smartphones and consoles its quite possible to create a new UI that improves usability, because the technology to interface with the hardware is fairly new (capacitive touch-screens for phones, new controllers for consoles), but when it comes to the keyboard and mouse, just keep it the same, Firefox hasn't added anything beneficial UI-wise in the past 3 or 4 "design overhauls" and instead has added a good 15 minutes of tweaks I have to do to any fresh install.

      --
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  6. The big feature is rounded tabs by Animats · · Score: 2

    The new big feature is rounded tabs. Really. I'm so impressed.

  7. Kill the link by phizi0n · · Score: 5, Informative

    It is very irresponsible to link to a dev branch of firefox without even including instructions on how to set up a separate profile for it. There is a good chance that it will mangle your profile in ways that will be incompatible with the final release or the current release should you choose to go back.

  8. Kill off the add-on bar? by cyberchondriac · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They're outta control with the "minimalistic interface" BS.. No one wants to go through submenu after submenu to get to something.
    It's a balance between clutter and functionality. They're obsessed with what they must consider to be a "clutter problem" where there really isn't any; it's not clutter if the user wants it that way. Clutter is in the mind of the beholder.

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  9. Booo, hissss by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First: Search for the addon Status-4-evar [sic] to keep/replace your status bar.

    Second: Product manager Asa Dotzler, is this the same person responsible for some of the abominable changes in 4.0?

    Third: "Separate Bookmark Star from locationBar and merge with Bookmarks Menu item", well that sucks. (Also, if you hate having stop and refresh as one button, edit the tool bar and drag stop to the left of refresh. Who's bright idea was it to combine those two? I want to hit stop, and if I hit it more than once, it starts to refresh the entire page. The exact opposite of what I want!)

    Fourth: Tabs under the address bar please. I don't care about your ideas about how it's illogical, I am more likely to want to change tabs than to click on the address bar, and if I need to get to the address bar I can use ctrl-L or alt-D.

    Fifth: I hate the Chrome UI, the new MSIE UI and similar. Don't do it to Firefox as well!

    Sixth: From the article: "In this vein, there is a discussion of removing the Add-on Bar completely, killing user-created custom toolbars, and having the main toolbar feature a dedicated area for add-on buttons and widgets instead." What a bloody awful idea. What will I do with my Web Developer toolbar than?

    Seventh: It doesn't matter what anyone thinks, Mozilla will push these changes through regardless. Just because. We can only hope that addons will be developed to revert the more moronic changes (like getting rid of the status bar).

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    1. Re:Booo, hissss by Dagger2 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sixth: From the article: "In this vein, there is a discussion of removing the Add-on Bar completely, killing user-created custom toolbars, and having the main toolbar feature a dedicated area for add-on buttons and widgets instead."

      Heh. "Discussion". This is what discussion means.

    2. Re:Booo, hissss by mlippert · · Score: 2

      Yeah I agree, I've had to find ways to "undo" most of their UI changes in the last couple of years.

      I like my statusbar with add-on info on the bottom of the window. I didn't like losing the statusbar but at least there still was an addon bar I could use for the info at the bottom of the window. I don't want add-on info being moved to the top toolbar area.

      I like having a forward/back dropdown so that I can see where I am in my back/forward history and select how far forward or back to go next. I had to install the addon Backward/Forward History Dropdown 0.2.4 to get this functionality back.

      I like my tabs underneath the addressbar, fortunately about:config lets me put that back urlbar.trimURLs false
      I don't really want part of the url greyed out; about:config urlbar.formatting.enabled false

      I like to see the http: or https: prefix in my addressbar

      I like having a menu bar which fortunately still exists. I hope this change doesn't plan to remove it.

      Of course I also don't ever use the browser fullscreen. It's a little nuts on a 1200x1960 monitor.

      Mostly firefox has let me keep the UI features that I want. It does sound like this is an update that I may not want to install however. And that will suck, because I don't really like chrome or IE. I could go check out opera, but I'm skeptical about it.

  10. Dear Mozilla, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    If I wanted such Chrome, I would have installed Chrome. Fuck off.

    Signed, the internet

    1. Re:Dear Mozilla, by SEE · · Score: 2

      Dear Mozilla,

      Try plotting those dates on the X axis against the Mozilla 4.0 alpha/beta/release cycle and the final end of support for 3.6.x. Go on.

      So, since that UI change to be more like Chrome was demonstrably a failure, you're going to try being even more Chrome-like? Did you fall and hit your head?

      My advice? Dump that Asa Dotzler shithead and actually try to win us back.

      Your ex,
      The Internet

  11. Why Do Users Need Two Chromes? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's been widely known for sometime that Firefox developers have been suffering from a terrible case of Chrome-Envy. When Chrome started gaining market share, and Firefox stagnated(market-share wise) there was great gnashing of teeth. What did people see in Chrome? They couldn't figure it out, so their answer was to slowly but surely turn Firefox into a Chrome clone. Rapid release? Check! Remove most of the UI? Check!

    Much to their shock, however, this strategy hasn't increased their market share any as users continue to defect to Chrome over Firefox.

    In the very near future, Firefox will be almost completely indistinguishable from Chrome. Oh, sure, Gecko and Blink will still have some differences in the way they will handle things, there will be some minor differences in the browsers themselves-but these will be the kind of differences that are completely non-apparent to your average user.

    Once this happens, and Mozilla has successfully eliminated everything that made Firefox unique and valuable, people will ask 'why do we need a browser that looks and acts like just like Chrome when we already have Chrome?'

  12. How about OS integratoin by hobarrera · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah, nice going making a new look and feel that you carry over across OSs. But how about respecting the look and feel the user chose? You know, on gnome, use gnome-like tabs, and gnome-like menus. On plain linux, try and see if the user configured gtk or qt with some theme, and use that. On KDE, use KDE's theme, etc...

    It looks like firefox worries more about branding these days than it does about OS integration. Sure, we love firefox, but why don't you make it more integrated into our everyday lives, instead of making it stick out so much? We already have Chrome for that!

  13. Ahhhh by Mike+Frett · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't you just love change for the sake of change?. Incidentally, can any of you fine /.ers point me in the direction of some Firefox forks so I can be prepared when they force this change on everyone?. I'm not a slave last time I checked, I hate being forced for silly reasons; especially reasons that are the result of jealousy of other browsers.

    If they do this, you might as well just use Chromium or Chrome, it would be a whole lot faster at least.

    1. Re:Ahhhh by tunapez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think you might be making an entire mountain range out of a pygmy molehill.

      No, OP is not. OP is voicing a widespread concern amongst users. Obfuscating controls is trendy right now as the web is continuing to morph. Creating reliance on 'cloud' services, 'app stores' and 'search' serves only the providers and removes options from the masses. Call this 'walled garden' mentality paranoia, evolution or behavior modification... the fact is usability is being eroded in lieu of monetization.
       
      This is a concern for me, the customer. Not me, the 'product'.

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  14. Curved Tabs? by Nathanbp · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm not really sure what the point of changing to curved tabs is except to make Firefox look exactly like Chrome. And I'll be pretty annoyed if this takes away the ability to enable the menu bar at all.

    1. Re:Curved Tabs? by MrNemesis · · Score: 2

      They foisted curved tabs on thunderbird users some time ago. It's possible to correct it with themes, but as I couldn't find any themes that were basically "default theme but without ugly rounded tabs" and there's no about:config option for it, I had to resort to editing the userchrome.css file - something that I'm now probably going to have to do on all my FF installations too.

      http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=2110991&postcount=5

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  15. Re:There IS a clutter problem by Patch86 · · Score: 2

    I'm currently typing this in Firefox 21 via Ubuntu (with Unity) on a 10" screen, and I don't see any clutter problem. The top line of my screen is taken up with the system tray, including the File, Edit etc. menus. Next row is the tabs. Next row is my URL bar and Search bar. Rest of the screen is all content. What on earth could be further reduced without breaking my experience? Get rid of the tabs? Get rid of the URL & search bars?

    At some point, there is nothing to be gained from reduction, only things to be lost. For me, Firefox is now hovering right at that point.

    Although I should point out that I'm not really worried; Firefox remains easy to customise to almost any extent you could want- as long as they don't cock that up, the worst they can do to me is inflict the mild annoyance of needing to spend time tweaking settings...

  16. Always eye candy by kbg · · Score: 2

    Why do they always focus on eye candy? The browser is in a need of some serious overhaul for memory usage, memory leakage, crashes, threading, multi core and some serious basic core fixes.

  17. Re:A hostage to fortune. by Jorl17 · · Score: 2

    I present to you, uzbl

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