Ask Slashdot: Getting Exchange and SQL Experience?

First time accepted submitter william.meaney1 writes "I'm the sole network admin at a 25 person company. I was lucky enough to get the opportunity less than a year after getting a technical degree in IT. I've had some huge opportunities here (for a first time network admin). After my schooling, I went ahead and I'm now CompTIA A+, Network+, and CCNA certified. Now, being hired out of school, I was grateful for the job, and the boss hired me for peanuts (Less than $30,000/year) I've been living at home, using that money for loan payments, car payments, and certification expenses. I've started looking for other work, and I feel more than qualified for most of the requirements I'm seeing. The big hurdle I'm coming across that EVERYONE seems to want is experience with SQL databases, and Microsoft Exchange. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas for getting usable experience on a low budget. I have some SQL experience, I deployed a source control program here that uses a SQL express backend, but what else do you need to know for database maintenance?"

Comments

Just do it

[gewalker]

Install some critical app (without permission if necessary) on your current corp. network that uses SQL server -- Presto, instant experience.

Re:Just do it

[erpbridge]

"I see here on your resume that you have SQL experience. Can you tell me about some of the SQL deployments and experience that you were doing in your last job? How did you integrate that into your business requirements?"

Its exactly THIS sort of question, which I'm getting a bit, which trips people up who self learn. I'm getting it with VMware... I had VMware experience building, maintaining, updating machines... but never anything server side, and never anything on the farm level of things like vMotion. After I was let go at end of contract after 5 years on build team/CMDB remediation team, all the interview screen questions tended to focus toward vmWare and Exchange. So, I went out, got myself a beefy machine, installed vSphere 5.1 on it, and have done quite a few things with it... but that experience means SQUAT when you're sitting in front of a board which includes interviewing manager, vmWare SME, and a couple other general members of the IT team who are trying to probe you for you BUSINESS level experience.

There's a heck of a lot difference between test lab, and business level, and interviewers can ferret that out REAL quick.

Re:Just do it

[pastafazou]

You keep following the path you're on, you're liable to get burned....

Re:Just do it

[DuckDodgers]

I think the ability to learn on your own is itself a skill - and an essential one if you want to be good. Get SQL Server Express. Install it. Then use the official web documentation or a highly rated book on it. Start at page 1 and walk through the features. When it gets to a section on setting up foreign keys, use your SQL Server Express to set up foreign keys. When it describes backups, set up backups.

However, this is only half the work required. If he can't point to work experience with SQL Server, then a lot of potential employers don't care what he claims to know from self-study.

Join MSDN Technet

[David E. Smith]

Nothing beats hands-on experience, so get some on the cheap. Get an MSDN Technet subscription; for $199 a year, you'll get free personal/learning licenses of SQL Server, Exchange, and just about every other big Microsoft program. Play with them. Set them up. Try to break them, then fix them.

Re:Join MSDN Technet

[tekiegreg]

^^^ This

I'd also like to add that if your budget is zero, SQL server express editions exist for free, they have a few restrictions on things such as DB Size, but should suit you well enough.

Re:Join MSDN Technet

[raydobbs]

Sadly, personal experience != 'experience' in the corporate sense. I've had this fight with IT recruiters and headhunters - they want experience in a corporate setting with corporate problems, not 'I dorked with it at home for x months or years'. Of course, people who actually know what the hell they need value ANY experience, so its not a complete waste - just getting to interview with them versus the HR drone can be the biggest problem.

Good advice on TechNet though - helps you get a leg up on new OSes and obscure software without having to buy those licenses separately. BIG COST SAVINGS!

Re:Join MSDN Technet

[jerpyro]

Personal experience can be 'experience' on your resume. What you need to do is to put them as 'personal projects' or 'side projects' instead of listing them as your job functions. Then, they will still trigger the keyword search, and it's enough to justify saying you have 'entry level experience' (which is MUCH better than not listing them at all). Better yet, once you have a little experience with them do a little consulting that makes use of that skill set.

ALWAYS work on your skill set. Don't wait for a position to come along to allow you to do it.

Re:Join MSDN Technet

[AmiMoJo]

This is good advice. I got my current position based on experience with open source projects I wrote and was able to demonstrate. Going to the interview with code print-outs in hand really helped.

Specialist IT recruiters barely know enough to turn their PCs on. All they do is look for keywords, copy/paste requirements from other similar jobs and then try to bullshit both you and their client into getting together. As long as you really do have the skills to do the job don't be afraid of bullshitting them too.

"Just do it"?

[ArcadeMan]

Nike would like to have a word with you.

[OT] A+ = F

[Anonymous Coward]

Offtopic, but I'd drop the A+ certification from your resume. When we get applicants with A+ listed, then we assume that they don't know enough to know that it means nothing and we bin them.

Re:[OT] A+ = F

[alta]

Not sure who's rating this down but I agree with it. A+ screams geeksquad. We look at A+ as people who have low expectations in life. It's a pretty poor way to look at it, but that's life.

Re:[OT] A+ = F

[Bugler412]

Having interviewed a bunch of sysadmin candidates in recent history (technical interviews, I'm not an HR or management type) the single most important thing in our interviews is having enough knowledge to work through infrastructure or app scenarios "on the fly" in the course of the interview. We typically whiteboard a common simple app scenario (web front end/app server, sqlserver, storage, authentication source, fat client, and web client mix, firewalls, etc.) and discuss the architecture and securing of each section or connection of the scenario. Sufficient understanding to "think on your feet" is what's most important for us. We are somewhat atypical that way in my experience (I've been through a LOT of different shops in govt, private industry and now education), but thinking on your feet skills will never hurt you!

Re:[OT] A+ = F

[cbhacking]

Hell, if at all possible, customize your resume for *every* job. A pure Windows shop is unlikely to care how much Linux knowledge I have, so I remove that and use the space to play up my skills in Win-specific areas and soft skills. A non-developer job (for example, security test) may care that I know how to program, but isn't going to be very interested in my knowledge of software development lifecycles and so forth. A job in a leadership role (even if nobody reports to you) requires different soft skills than one where you're part of a team, which in turn requires different skills from one where you work alone.

Customize everything. Don't lie, and do have a good, general-purpose resume that you can use for almost any scenario, but if you really want to get hired you should go the extra mile and at least tweak things for each job where you have the opportunity. Additionally, you definitely need to write cover letters wherever possible. Keep them short, professional, and on topic, and ensure they are as well edited as is practically possible - poor grammar can lead to a mark against you just by making you look sloppy or uneducated - but unless your writing is absolutely terrible, they are well worth the time it takes. You want to stand out from the crowd.

Self teaching, followed by volunteer work

[they_call_me_quag]

I see this as a three step process:

(1) Use the other resources mentioned above to teach yourself SQL server and Exchange.

(2) Find a nonprofit agency in your area who needs help with their computing environment. Offer to help them on a volunteer (ie, unpaid) basis. Be sure this help includes working with SQL Server and Exchange. Be picky about this. Do not get involved with an agency where the work will not help you build your practical skill set. Also be sure that there is someone at the nonprofit agency who is willing to act as a reference for you at some point in the future. You don't have to explicitly ask this upfront, just be sure that the senior most person you can find knows enough about who you are to say nice things about you.

(3) Use this real life experience to help you land the next job on your way up the ladder.

(4) Optional: Continue working with the nonprofit agency if it makes you happy.

BTW... you can do steps 1 & 2 in parallel, ie start looking for a nonprofit while you are learning SQL Server and Exchange. Both steps might take a little time.

Start with SQL proper.

[Let's All Be Chinese]

Start at the beginning. Too many SQL users (including developers!) haven't a clue how to properly use it. As a DBA, you'll be called upon to provide that, among other things. So start with the theory and practice of SQL. Especially since it actually is founded upon fairly solid theory, meaning that if you know the theory the practice suddenly becomes a lot smoother. The rest will follow from that.

See db-class.org for a MOOC intro. If you've worked your way through that you'll know where to start looking for learning about the DBA-type things you'll need to do: Schemata, indices, query tuning, and then the subtler tuning like moving tables and indices around on disk or solid state or in-memory or what-have-you. And the basic knowledge will be useful any time a user asks for your DBA-hatted help.

As to exchange, it's crap, and you'll be better off knowing less about its internals. It's hairy and quirky and apt to eat your mail. In fact, it's not even a proper mail server: It's a suitable server for outlook, just as outlook is not a proper email client, but a suitable client to exchange. The combination means a lot of interop trouble that could've easily been avoided.

Since you'll be called upon to make it play ("nicely" is not in the books) with the rest of the world, again, start from principles. Learn how to set up an MTA, know how SMTP and IMAP work. Send yourself an email by telnet. Know what the various headers do. That MTA set up with matching IMAP server, don't have to be exchange at first, in fact it's better not to. Once you know how the rest of the world does it, you can learn how exchange fscks it all up, and how to keep the thing on a leash.

For bonus points, learn how to provide everything that exchange purports to provide ("collaboration" and calendaring and "syncing" and so on, as well as half-assed not-entirely-unlike-email type "messaging") using open-source software. Get that down smoothly (there are several ways and alternatives available these days) and you have another selling point: Providing a better experience with less cost.

That was what you're looking for, right? Points to sell yourself with?

Re:Start with SQL proper.

[asmkm22]

It doesn't matter if Exchange is crap or not. Your personal opinion is pointless if the companies he's applying for use it. Having said that, I personally don't see many issues with the Exchange servers I've maintained over the years, if they're setup properly.

Anyway, back on topic. Going into an interview for a position that requires experience with certain software, only to tell them that not only do you not have that experience, but that they shouldn't even be using the software in the first place, isn't likely to make for a good first impression.

Re:Work for a local IT company

[kullnd]

That's a bit extreme of an example - but yes - you are failing to take into account everything that goes into running these types of operations such as Software Licensing (Which is crazy expensive for their ticketing systems and remote management tools), tools, rent, utilities, insurance (General liability and Errors / Omissions, Bonding (really good idea if you have employees in this type of business), your benefits, your payroll taxes, marketing, the cost of doing sales (i.e. not making money to get money) ... the list goes on. If you think it's such a great deal for the owner, why don't you try it yourself - It's a lot harder to get by than you think.

this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships tha

[Joe_Dragon]

this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships that have ways to letter people learn. The trades schools are nice but should be more drop in to learn X skill.

Re:Work for a local IT company

[kullnd]

Considering I was being paid $20 an hour and when the company I was working for charged $95 an hour. I do believe that there is a problem.

$95/hr is split into:

Your $20/hr + (Plus any benefits, Federal taxes, blah, blah)
Plus the time that someone spent getting that client you just did $95 worth of work for
Plus the money that was spent marketing to get that client you just did $95 worth of work for
Plus the admin time that will be spent billing that client
Plus dealing with the clients that don't pay
Plus office rent, utilities, other office overhead that you probably have no clue about
Plus tools used to perform the work (ticketing system, remote access tools?) . Again, you probably have no clue how much that actually costs
Plus you were paid to drive to that client, and if using your own vehicle should have gotten mileage
In addition to the drive, you are likely not billing 100% of your time anyway - Company still pays you when you are not billable right?

Believe it or not, the Margin on those accounts is not that much. Does it make money? Well I hope so or your company will no longer exist - Does it make someone filthy rich? Probably not.

SQL?

[niado]

After a quick perusal of the comments I haven't seen this mentioned yet.

Dude, you have a CCNA.

You aren't exactly clear what your experience has entailed so far, but, (if you enjoy networking) you should try to continue down that path.

You're already a considerable way down the networking road with the CCNA. If you have been getting hands-on experience with Cisco gear at your current job, I would definitely leverage that to try and get a more networking-intensive position somewhere, where SQL experience would be superfluous.

Re:this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships

[mjwx]

this why IT need more trades / apprenticeships that have ways to letter people learn. The trades schools are nice but should be more drop in to learn X skill.

IT moves way too fast for that.

I didn't learn SQL until I was 5 years into my career. Virtualisation didn't start to take off until late last decade, now it's everywhere. The versions of Windows and Linux I would have done my apprenticeship on would have been obsolete a year after I finished. A carpenter almost never needs to update their skills after their apprenticeship, sysadmins always needs to be updating theirs.

IT education needs to be more focused on how things work, then extrapolate what you need to do, not how to do things by rote memorisation. In this regard it's more suited for the university style of education as opposed to an apprenticeship.

That being said, more companies need to offer paid internship (as opposed to an apprenticeship) for new sysadmins to get experience. Taking on juniors and giving them enough real world experience to turn them into seniors in a few years. This is the way it works in Australia where unpaid internships are illegal (The ATO and FWA will nail you to the wall for not paying staff).