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Intelligence Director Claims NSA Surveillance Reports Inaccurate
Nerval's Lobster writes "James R. Clapper, the nation's Director of National Intelligence, claimed that recent reports about the NSA monitoring Americans' Internet and phone communications are inaccurate. 'The Guardian and The Washington Post articles refer to collection of communications pursuant to Section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act,' he wrote in a June 6 statement. 'They contain numerous inaccuracies.' While the statement didn't detail the supposed inaccuracies, it explained why the monitoring described in those articles would, at least in theory, violate the law. 'Section 702 is a provision of FISA that is designed to facilitate the acquisition of foreign intelligence information concerning non-U.S. persons located outside the United States,' it read. 'It cannot be used to intentionally target any U.S. citizen, any other U.S. person, or anyone located within the United States.' Those newspaper articles describe an NSA project codenamed Prism, which allegedly taps into the internal databases of nine major technology companies: Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Facebook, PalTalk, YouTube, Skype, AOL, and Apple. Both publications drew their information from an internal PowerPoint presentation used to train intelligence operatives. Speaking to Slashdot, Google, Microsoft and Facebook all again denied knowledge of Prism; the Google spokesperson suggested he didn't 'have any insight' into why Google would have appeared in the NSA's alleged PowerPoint presentation. But many, many questions remain."
"You are wrong, but I am not going to tell you HOW you are wrong"
From reading the Powerpoint, I came to a few conclusions. First, the news reports about the details of the program are accurate. Second, the Powerpoint is legitimate, albeit amateur for someone to disregard the standard stylistic guidelines for information that has classifications on it. Third, the full Powerpoint presentation will be declassified in 2037, so do not hold your breath for all the details.
sudo make me a sandwich
Google, Yahoo, Skype... "We don't give the NSA access to your mail/chat". What they really mean is: "We let them take copies of everything via the backdoor API, before we even store it"
It would be illegal, so that can't be what happened.
Of course the NSA doesn't spy on American citizens. That's against the law.
What they do is allow friendly foreign agents -- like the UK -- to spy on American citizens, and then they share the data together. It's totally different and completely legal.
Genocide Man -- Life is funny. Death is funnier. Mass murder can be hilarious.
But only because the reality is worse!
Or did people forget about how the FBI uses Carnivore and its successors, or that the NSA has had Echelon in continuous operation? The companies that are protesting that they don't willingly hand over the data are probably right, the NSA is probably tapping the datacenters and ISPs directly without telling anyone concerned (see the fiasco at AT&T for instance).
is that the news outlets are saying it was a secret.
Is there really anybody out there who didn't know the government has been doing this?
In other news, George Orwell's "1984" was published 64 years ago yesterday.
"The keyword here is blackwhite. Like so many Newspeak words, this word has two mutually contradictory meanings. Applied to an opponent, it means the habit of impudently claiming that black is white, in contradiction of the plain facts. Applied to a Party member, it means a loyal willingness to say that black is white when Party discipline demands this. But it means also the ability to believe that black is white, and more, to know that black is white, and to forget that one has ever believed the contrary. This demands a continuous alteration of the past, made possible by the system of thought which really embraces all the rest, and which is known in Newspeak as doublethink. Doublethink is basically the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
"I say we take off, nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
James R. Clapper, the nation's Director of National Intelligence, issued the following statement:
"The NSA and FBI wish to thank wish to thank Google and the glassholes for contributing to the panopticon and bringing us real-time insights into the daily activities of terrorists and potential terrorists (the two categories of citizens) nationwide."
That is very well crafted response. Look at what he says "'It cannot be used to intentionally target any U.S. citizen...." - INTENTIONALLY target is key there. They aren't intentionally targeting anyone. They are doing a broad sweep of everyone's data, then analyzing it, at which point they an argue for probable cause and then intentionally target an individual within the scope of the law. Words matter
You know... I really wish I could believe him.
But I don't. "It must be wrong because all that is illegal" is a mighty poor excuse, even if the "illegal" part is quite true. I've stood by my country despite many, MANY bad decisions, but... this? I just can't support this.
just because you're paranoid doesn't mean the government isn't spying on all your activities.
VZW Engineer on lover's lane: Can you hear me now?
NSA Technician: Check.
VZW Engineer across the street from a Meth lab: And now?
NSA Technician: Check.
VZW Engineer in the depths of FBI (Hoover Building): Can you hear me now?
NSA Technician: Check.
VZW Engineer in the Pentagon data center: How about now?
NSA Technician: Check.
VZW Engineer in the NSA data center: How about now?
NSA Technician: No comment.
Seriously, what the fuck does it accomplish by calling anyone conspiracy theorists? It's in mainstream media now - and you're still calling them conspiracy theorists? It was leaked, reported on, and it is out there.. and it's even being shown on TV news in the US.
You're living uninformed and in a bubble if you cannot see the obvious direction the US is headed.. You're sitting there with your head in the sand calling the people that are most vocal about it derogatory names.
This is just what is reported.. A conspiracy theorist would say that most likely the actual truth is more damming.
--- We need more Ron Paul!
Right? Possibly. Duty? Hell, no. I and most of the population are not going to start shooting people and risking our own deaths just because someone with a stricter interpretation of the American political process got his panties in a bunch. Violation of perceived rights would have to much, much deeper before inaction is no longer a moral choice.
I think literally "taking up arms" is premature and would be counter-productive, but parent is right. I'm writing to my Congressional representatives tonight to let them know that I vote and my next vote will be heavily influenced by their response to this revelation. I think I'll also write to my national political party office (I'm registered with a major party) to tell them the same thing. It's also a good time to consider joining/contributing to an organization that advocates for privacy and civil rights.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
"I'm saying that when the President does it, it's not illegal!" - Richard Nixon, 1977
"the statement didn't detail the supposed inaccuracies, it explained why the monitoring described in those articles would, at least in theory, violate the law."
This scumbag is arguing that the allegations in the stories are inaccurate because the actions they describe would be in violation of THE LAW?
Since when does the government give a damn about following the law or holding its employees accountable for violations?
The Bush wiretapping program was blatantly illegal under the original FISA law, the OTS helped banks back-date deposits to mask their insolvency, the ATF smuggles weapons to the Mexican drug cartels. The government openly murders U.S. citizens without charge or trial.
This guy is arguing that government would NEVER violate the law, therefore any allegations of criminal activity by the government must necessarily be false? LOL
> Doublethink is basically the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them."
This, by the way, and probably deliberately, is the textbook definition of neurosis.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
There has been “continued exponential growth in tasking to Facebook and Skype,” according to the PRISM slides. With a few clicks and an affirmation that the subject is believed to be engaged in terrorism, espionage or nuclear proliferation, an analyst obtains full access to Facebook’s “extensive search and surveillance capabilities against the variety of online social networking services.”
so, you enter a name to access his full facebook profile, and there's a popup - are you reasonably sure he's a terrorist? yes/no" I'm glad to know there are safeguards in place!
Whoops, sorry everybody... It was my job to cue the government apologists, but I was late, so don't blame mark-t for going ahead on schedule.
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
"I am The Law!" - Judge Dredd and the NSA
The Patriot Act needs to go! Join the EFF Today! and start writing you your Senators and members of congress now to get this horrid piece of legislation repealed. The only way it will stop is if we tell them both in writing and in the voting booth that we want this violation of our privacy to stop.
We have a huge hidden intelligence network that has ballooned since 9/11 and it just feeds on data and money. It's largely ineffective and couldn't actually target a couple of brothers that were directly warned by the Russians, leading to the bombing of the Boston Marathon. If you think the current administration is in support of your privacy rights, Think Again!"
“All it takes for evil to succeed is for a few good men to do nothing...” - Edmund Burke
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
We have the warrant, the FBI writes them out for the FISA court, the warrant sends the data to the NSA.
Yeh we get it, its illegal, so you hid it, you fucking liar Clapper.
Everyone of you in the NSA that think you're the good guys, if you are the good guys why is the truth so scary. You're the fucking STASI, no different. You kept your mouths shut kidding youselfs you were good Americans.
STASI
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/3275905/Stasi-police-kept-East-Germans-in-fear-for-40-years.html
"They did not need torture chambers and rubber truncheons to keep people in line, but instead exploited the insecurities of members of the public, according to author Christhard Laepple."
"Turning one in three of the German Democratic Republic's 17 million citizens into informers, the Stasi injected fear, uncertainty and suspicion into every walk of life, making sure few people ever uttered anything which might anger the regime."
"...Most of the spies interviewed professed to be committed socialists who believed they were weeding out capitalist opponents."
"But others were simply remorseless opportunists with scant regard for the lives they ruined. All withheld their real names for fear of being ostracised. "
Yeh we get it, you're good socialists trying to weed out capitalist opponents, same thing.
I used to work at Bank of America and NSA had a black door closet in our office that I couldn't get into. Now mind you I had a security key card that could open any door in the establishment due to me being in the network security team. I could get in any VIP office, the trade floor, any secured area and any BofA server room on the premises but no one in our company could open that one door. So it's not just Internet dotcoms it's all your financial transactions and anything else as well. They are snarfing everything.
Tell me directly, of what alternatives do you speak? The Libertarian party is largely blind to the problem of big business having government in its pockets; for example Ron Paul is a huge supporter of unfettered big business, not realizing they are a driving force behind the wars of choice for profit and power that he blames on Congress. He focuses on the puppet and not the puppet masters.
what I'm confused about is.. didn't Obama just admit to this the other day?
or is this different spying?
wtf?
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
"James R. Clapper, the nation's Director of National Intelligence, claimed that recent reports about the NSA monitoring Americans' Internet and phone communications are inaccurate.
In fact they are probably not. Hey technologically savvy geeks and Internet gurus... does this whole PRISM thing with its internal backdoors to everything and it comes to light suddenly and completely, does this make sense??
Actually to computer geeks aware of the mechanisms involved it might sound more like a Hollywood script. Perhaps because it is. Let me spell out my own theory.
1. NSA is concerned that they are directly implicated in the mining of Verizon and others' meta-data which is delivered to them on a regular basis. They sensed correctly that this story will grow legs and start to walk, perhaps all the way to become a 21st century Church Committee Congressional Action. AS IT SHOULD. When something erupts that cannot be surpressed, the tactic is to release a FAKE something that is BIGGER and can be used to gather all attention. And control that.
2. NSA has secrets to keep. The secret they most wish to keep is that there is charter-be-damned network-level slurping of all domestic backbones, just as James Bamford warned us about in 1982. First slated for voice, it has expanded to cover Internet as well. It is being carried out by them or at their behest by private contractors (greetz to Comverse). This is a network level piggyback slurp operation, a total vacuum cleaner.
3. So they got together and burned the midnight oil, and came up with this fake PRISM distraction, a series of "leaked" slides that implies that the major providers have willingly provided backdoor access into their servers and clouds. As technological folks you should see that if such an operation did exist, involving disparate providers, each with their own proprietary systems, with thousands of senior-level operators, it would have been impossible to contain, let alone manage.
4. It falsely implicates the providers directly. All those Corporations Are Evil conspiracy nuts will eat it up. Moderate people will start to question the veracity of PRISM outright as representatives from trusted corporations like Apple and Google step forward. No one will be able to produce evidence of this back-door collusion framework because it does not exist.
5. The PRISM straw man will be knocked down. Congressional hearings will commence, but they will be pre-injected with specific questions about PRISM, NOT the piggyback slurp operation. PRISM this, PRISM that. If anyone begs their congress to press NSA on its network level surveillance operations under oath, that congress critter will ask a question.... about PRISM instead. "Because that is the issue we are investigating, and we don't have time to discuss anything else." Meanwhile lots of ancillary leaks about PRISM will be fed to the press to keep everyone talking about it.
6. Then amid fanfare, everyone will reluctantly admit that the (fake) PRISM operation has been shut down.
7. And perhaps, in exchange for turning off the heat with a (fake) witch hunt in which the PRISM witch is drowned, the providers might be more willing to pass on the SSL keys to the web, SPOP and SIMAP servers on a regular basis so all that end to end encryption they intercept at the borders becomes completely transparent. Something that could be done without any spook setting foot in someone's server room.
Just sayin'. I like to say things like that.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
This is how bureaucrats try to connote that a report is riddled with errors, falsehoods, and bad conclusions, without actually saying that. They can't say it because it isn't true, so they have to tap dance around that inconvenient fact by saying a report is 'inaccurate'. 'Inaccuracy' could easily refer to misspellings of people's names, dates off by a day, typos, etc. Unless he says exactly what he's talking about, it's reasonable to assume he's just trying to obfuscate.
"Never believe anything until it's officially denied."
http://www.jonathanlynn.com/tv/yes_minister_series/yes_minister_episode_quotes.htm
Do those morons at NSA realize how much damage they inflict on the country just by collecting and storing all that shit?
First, parts of that stuff can be leaked (the same way those ppt files got out - in practice it's impossible to guarantee absence of covert channels)
Second, do they even realize that they have Russian/French/Israeli/WhatHaveYou moles, who are hell bent on getting (and most probably already there) access to that thing (at very least to find known targets connections; blackmail targets; influence targets etc.)?
STUPIDITY!
Anyone else notice the lack of coverage about this or any other story about the NSA on CNN's homepage?
No, I didn't notice, since I don't visit CNN (or Fox, or MSNBC) due to their lack of coverage on important issues.
Thank you, Edward Snowden.
"Arguments from authority are worthless." —Carl Sagan
See the recent SCOTUS case of "Clapper vs. Amnesty International" and the 2007 6th District appeals court case of "ACLU vs. NSA"
In both cases, the government has successfully argued that the plaintiffs lack "legal standing" to sue the NSA for its warrantless surveillance activity. They government and courts put the burden of proof on the plaintiffs to demonstrate that they were "harmed" by the programs. The government also refuses to release information about WHO they targeted, so the plaintiffs have no way to obtain this proof.
These rulings are a travesty because the government can now circumvent the Constitution in any way that it wants. They just claim that their illegal activities are "secret". The courts then refuse to rule on the Constitutionality of the program and the illegal activity continues.
IANAL, but if it can be shown that the government is intercepting all of our data, wouldn't everyone have "legal standing" to challenge the activity? i.e. there's no longer a need to prove that anyone was specifically targeted because they targeted everyone.
When James R Clapper opens his mouth I have no reason to believe or trust anything he says. He lied in testimony in front of congress and he won't even say what is wrong about the reports because "classified".
When technology companies like Microsoft tell us they safeguard our data or don't put backdoors into their shit and then lie about participation in spying programs are paying customers expected to do something other than switch to linux?
What about their foreign customers how are they supposed to trust an american company with perception of an out of control lawless state?
Secret interpretation of law is corrosive to state legitimacy. Which translates to non-academic consequences in the real world.
Foreign companies will think twice (US = next Huawei) before trusting US based firms for anything. People will increase their use of information security technology and the result will be negative effects on actual lawful non-puppet judge issued warrants.
Aggregation of power always leads to corruption. They are inseparable laws of human nature.
They are storing the data. It is that they are just not intentionally looking at all of it. When they have a target, then they do the google on the data. There is too much data to look at all of it every day.
You are being MICROattacked, from various angles, in a SOFT manner.