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Prosecutors Push For Anti-Phone-Theft Kill Switches

New submitter EdPbllips writes "Law enforcement officials nationwide are demanding the creation of a 'kill switch' that would render smartphones inoperable after they are stolen, New York's top prosecutor said Thursday in a clear warning to the world's smartphone manufacturers. Citing statistics showing that 1 in 3 robberies nationwide involve the theft of a mobile phone, New York Attorney General Eric Schneiderman announced the formation of a coalition of law enforcement agencies devoted to stamping out what he called an 'epidemic' of smartphone robberies. 'All too often, these robberies turn violent,' said Schneiderman, who was joined at a news conference by San Francisco District Attorney George Gascon. 'There are assaults. There are murders.'" Apple described a system like this in their presentation about iOS 7 at WWDC.

34 of 257 comments (clear)

  1. What a great idea! by Aerokii · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure that with everything we've learned recently regarding the Government and phones, there's no way this could -possibly- be abused!

    1. Re:What a great idea! by biy55 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft has always supported the effort. They were the ones who called law enforcement to work about stolen phones. They really cared for customers, imo.

    2. Re:What a great idea! by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, of course not. Eric Holder and Barak Obama, the FISC, Congress, the CIA, the FBI, the NSA, etc are all COMPLETELY TRUSTWORTHY. All they want is to make us all nice and safe. Promise! Nobody would EVER turn off the phones of people they didn't agree with, just as they were organizing a protest? Nah, that could never happen!

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    3. Re:What a great idea! by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "I'm sure that with everything we've learned recently regarding the Government and phones, there's no way this could -possibly- be abused!"

      I agree with the sarcasm. Kill switches are a horrible idea. And completely unnecessary.

      For example, have a look at The Prey Project. This is a good example of a secure means by which an OWNER can track, and even get screenshots and camera shots from, a stolen device.

      Why "kill" a device when you stand a good chance of getting it back? Killing it does nobody any good, and has lots of quite horrible abuse potential.

    4. Re:What a great idea! by LordLimecat · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because Prey wont actually help you get your phone back. Eliminating the stolen phone market will prevent your phone from being stolen in the first place.

      Im also not getting the concern over govt abuse. How / why would gov't use a kill switch? If you want to track someone, isnt that the LAST thing they would do? Its not exactly subtle, you would immediately know if it was used.

    5. Re:What a great idea! by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Why "kill" a device when you stand a good chance of getting it back?

      No you haven't. Even if you know where it is, what are you going to do? Really...?

      Besides, you're in charge of whether or not it's killed. You have to report it stolen.

      Killing it does nobody any good, and has lots of quite horrible abuse potential

      Yes it does. Read the summary - people are being mugged and murdered for their phones. A kill switch makes them worthless to thieves.

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:What a great idea! by Eowaennor · · Score: 3, Insightful
      You could be trading one kill for another

      Consider this: Mugger demands your phone, but knowing that you may just kill it when he runs away with your phone, kills you instead and takes your phone.

    7. Re: What a great idea! by alen · · Score: 4, Informative

      A lot of stolen phones are shipped outside the USA. A kill switch would render them useless

    8. Re:What a great idea! by gewalker · · Score: 5, Funny

      I thought Windows 8 was a kill switch.

    9. Re:What a great idea! by Daetrin · · Score: 2

      This is kind of a silly thing to worry about. If the government wants to shut down your communication they can already do it. They just talk to your carrier and all of the sudden your calls and texts aren't going through. They could probably even disguise it as some kind of a temporary connectivity issue if they wanted, unlike bricking your phone with a kill-switch which would be really obvious.

      Having a kill-switch offers no benefit to the government, nor to the carriers. It only benefits the users, aka the potential mugging victims.

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      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
    10. Re:What a great idea! by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Microsoft has always supported the effort. They were the ones who called law enforcement to work about stolen phones. They really cared for customers, imo.

      They may have always supported the effort, but they were far from the first in calling for fixes to stolen phones.

      The universal IMEI/MEID blocking, long in effect in most of the world has been fought tooth and nail by the carriers.

      Because they they earn additional revenue when you come in and buy a new phone after you get mugged, they had no
      interest in setting up and maintaining such a database. It was less than a year ago that they finally agreed to build such a blacklist. This plan could work for existing phones, even dumb phones.

      Rather than give that time to work, they now contrive to call it a failure, and they now want to launch a whole new requirement, and get everyone to buy a new phone in order to be included in the "protected group".

      There are those that insist that you can simply and easily flash a new IMEI on a phone, but it is not as simple as some would have you believe, that the guy in the hoodie who knocks you down and grabs your phone doesn't have the skill set to do so.

      With a blocked IMEI you can unblock it if it is recovered if you can prove to the carrier that you are the rightful owner. With a kill switch, you are screwed. There is little incentive to report a lost or stolen phone, since it ruins any chance of recovery. It will still require replacement once you report it, even if you find it at your friends house where you left it after the party.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
    11. Re:What a great idea! by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 2

      You're trying to spoil our OUTRAGE DUDE! ;)

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    12. Re: What a great idea! by cusco · · Score: 2

      You mean like all of the movies and programs with DRM make them utterly impossible to copy and resell in other countries for a few cents? It won't work. You're assuming that people in other countries aren't bright enough to figure out how to fix a broken phone, whether deliberately or accidentally broken. Unless the kill switch somehow fries the phone's entire electronics it will be bypassed in no time.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    13. Re:What a great idea! by cusco · · Score: 2

      It still surprises me that organizations that claim to be a political action party, who do no charitable work to speak of, and and who are quite open that the sole reason they want the status is to hide who their donors are, complain because they get denied a status exclusively reserved for charitable agencies that are prohibited from political activity. Yep, that sure sounds like the IRS is being a bad guy, what with them attempting to enforce the rules and laws that Congress entrusted them with. The absolute gall!

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    14. Re:What a great idea! by sjames · · Score: 2

      No, it's just a clever way to make sure nobody will want to steal it in the first place.

    15. Re:What a great idea! by pepty · · Score: 2
      Hardware is the only way to go.

      For a kill switch to work:

      -A phone's serial number has to be embedded such that it can't be changed in any cost-effective way.

      -A network needs to be able to unambiguously identify a phone's serial number in a way that the phone's software/firmware can't block or alter.

      -A network needs to be able to send a kill message in a way that the phone's software/firmware can't block or alter.

      Basically the kill functionality will need access to the radio that is independent from the rest of the phone. Both the firmware and the OS can be hacked: if Samsung can update the firmware in its phones so can hackers.

    16. Re:What a great idea! by jd2112 · · Score: 2

      I'm going to paint bright orange-red stripes on my phone, to make thieves think it's poisonous.

      Better yet out a Windows logo on it.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    17. Re:What a great idea! by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Technically in terms or realistic policing, blocking attempts to connect to the phone network is far better than bricking the phone. Each attempt at connecting to the network represents an opportunity to identify and apprehend the thief. In fact the connection could be allowed and monitored with the specific intent of investigating and prosecuting the receiver of stolen property in order to further track it back to the thief. Brick the phone and you purposefully, stupidly create a legal prosecution dead end. Ideally stolen smart phones represent an ideal way to target those who perpetrate violent crimes against others and should be used as such.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. Unintended uses by Loopy · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The IRS/etc. would NEVER use this to disable someone's communications ability because they were doing something the government didn't like. No sirree. Not ever. Pure as the driven snow, this design is.

    It's like people can't think past the next episode of their favorite TV show.

    1. Re:Unintended uses by i.r.id10t · · Score: 5, Interesting

      On the other hand, you could use it to nuke your own phone if the police had seized it and were using it to find evidence against you...

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      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    2. Re:Unintended uses by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Funny

      On the other hand, you could use it to nuke your own phone if the police had seized it and were using it to find evidence against you...

      Yeah, right. You really believe the police won't have a kill-switch kill-switch?

  3. Don't we already have this? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Something similar has been available for YEARS- all you need do is ask the phone company to invalidate the IMEI number.and/or activate the memory wipe software built into Android, iOS, and Windows phones.

    Has Symbian and Blackberry been left out of this feature? I would have thought consumer demand for it would have produced it on those platforms as well long ago.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    1. Re:Don't we already have this? by Derek+Pomery · · Score: 2

      So, I think this system has potential for abuse, both by governments and by some random hacker/disgruntled employee killing off phones.

      But, the IMEI thing is not really a fix.
      1) The phone can still be used as an ipod or tablet.
      2) IMEI can be changed.
      In addition, IMEI record keeping is rather poor.

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      -- perl -e'print pack"H*","6e656d6f406d38792e6f7267"' /. ate my old sig. Bastards.
    2. Re:Don't we already have this? by MrEricSir · · Score: 5, Informative

      Something similar has been available for YEARS- all you need do is ask the phone company to invalidate the IMEI number.and/or activate the memory wipe software built into Android, iOS, and Windows phones.

      There's still no nationwide database in the US of all stolen IMEI numbers. Even if you tell your carrier that your phone was stolen and they bother to invalidate the number, AFAIK there's nothing stopping the theif from using the phone on a different carrier (assuming the phone is compatible, obviously.)

      --
      There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    3. Re:Don't we already have this? by h4rr4r · · Score: 2

      Where was this?

      The police where I live do not care. They will not retrive phones if you give them the location and photos of the crooks.

  4. If you're robbing someone... by intermodal · · Score: 4, Insightful

    you will take their phone regardless of whether it is any good to you. Why? because it can be used to call the police as soon as you leave.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    1. Re:If you're robbing someone... by psithurism · · Score: 2

      True, thieves want whatever they can get, but right now, phones are the most valuable piece of property your typical pedestrian is carrying. Robbing someone is a pretty risky business and if you cut down the expected profit from $200 phone sale (I've never tried, but I assume that's what you get from a hot iPhone), to the $30 your average pedestrian carries, you'd get a lot more people turning to pan handling, drug dealing, or whatever they do when your out of other options.

      I don't know any (admitted) thieves, but I do know a number of people who have been mugged. They don't tend to share the stories of the time they handed over their stuff, but everyone other person seems to have a story where they beat down a thug or the cops showed up just in time and got 'em, so I have to assume: thievery is a risky business, that wouldn't be attempted without reasonable expectation of payoff.

  5. Unintended consequences by idontgno · · Score: 2

    The problem is that the lack of a kill-switch gives incentive to steal a nice phone, no matter what it takes.

    The response is to make the stolen phone remote-brickable, even after a factory-clean wipe.

    The counter-response is to make sure the theft of the phone is never reported. And dead men tell no tales.

    Of course, this means that the trackable live phone is in the hands of a murderer or an accessory-after-the-fact, so law enforcement has both incentive and means to pursue justice... so it's self-correcting, except for the whole "original victim is dead" part.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  6. Okay then by djdanlib · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who's going to inform all of the would-be muggers that the world of cell phones suddenly changed? Bad muggers! Stop mugging! That'll show em! They know they can still sell the phones for parts and make more money than they would just selling a phone. It's not going to deter them from stealing the phone. Besides, JTAG and such will continue to render inoperable phones operable, not to mention that it may be possible to bypass the kill function if you get into the phone fast enough.

    Look at Egypt and Turkey and wherever else. This is an excellent way for a government to say "No more smartphone for you, protestor!" Even if they don't use it in the USA, who WILL use it? The hardware will be built to allow it, so the next nation to have unrest will simply broadcast the kill bits en masse, and the protestors will be censored. Sounds quite delicious from a dictatorship's standpoint.

    1. Re:Okay then by JeffAtl · · Score: 3, Informative

      Who's going to inform all of the would-be muggers that the world of cell phones suddenly changed?

      The fence they use to offload their stolen phones.

  7. Shouldn't cell phone thefts help police? by hawguy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If 1 in 3 robberies involve stealing a tracking device that can lead police back to the culprit, shouldn't that be making the job of police much easier?

    Instead of a "kill-switch", shouldn't law enforcement be asking for a tracking beacon that can be turned on to help track down all of these stolen phones? (I know Apple's kill-switch does enable GPS tracking, but that doesn't seem to be what the Attorney General is asking for). It's not like criminals are going to say "Oh geeze, I can't sell a stolen cell phone anymore, guess I should finish up my degree and get a real job" -- They are still going to be committing crimes, but will steal cash and expensive purses instead of cell phones.

  8. Corporate - Government Synergy by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 2

    Why "kill" a device when you stand a good chance of getting it back? Killing it does nobody any good, and has lots of quite horrible abuse potential.

    The companies get new sales and the government gets a stealthed system to quickly kill organized protests and evidence of police brutality with the push of a button. Win-Win!

  9. most phones swiped on the run by Chirs · · Score: 2

    A phone that is being used one-handed is a really easy target for someone to grab on the run...much easier than trying to get someone's wallet or purse.

  10. Re:Two thoughts by amorsen · · Score: 2

    One: Can we expect petty criminals to be up on this latest news and be aware of this feature BEFORE they have already mugged you and tried to fence the phone?

    Yes. Criminal communications are good. I would be surprised if it took as much as a month for robberies targeting a protected model to stop.

    Two: If the phone is deactivated accidentally (or intentionally as a prank or malice against the owner), how much would you trust your mobile carrier to be reasonable in their process to reactivate the phone?

    This is a kill switch. The carrier should not be able to fix the phone afterwards. The phone manufacturer might be able to fix it, but not if the kill switch is properly implemented.

    --
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