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Ask Slashdot: Neurofeedback At Home, Is It Possible?
New submitter sker writes "Mind hackers, self-help junkies, even regular people have heard wild promises of the power of neurofeedback — namely the process of watching a visual representation of your own brain's activity to influence what your brain is doing. Folks are using it to cure ADHD, PTSD, or even to supposedly improve mindfulness meditation. Previously the sole domain of costly hospital and research equipment, the necessary EEG equipment is making its way into the home. From newagey Deepak Chopra-endorsed kits to the for-engineers-only OpenEEG project, the options are rapidly getting unwieldy for curious bystanders to make sense of. Have you had experience with EEG or neurofeedback at home? Do you have advice?"
biofeedback, which was the self-help craze of the 1970s. It didn't work very well. (No, I didn't RTFA.)
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
Just like the neurofeedback stuff that was in Radio Electronics magazine decades ago? Wow, finally making its way into the home!
the options are rapidly getting unwieldy for curious bystanders to make sense of.
That's because it IS unwieldy, for anyone. Even EEG done properly is not cheap or simple, and EEG is not a wonderful method of visualising what is actually going on in the brain: you're measuring the potential difference between points of the surface of the skull, and making a guess as to roughly the region in the brain the current(s) that produced that potential difference are actually occurring in based on electrode placement.
fMRI and similar are better, but NOT something you can do at home (just building the superconducting main coil would be a massive feat).
openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/
I have Tourette's Syndrome and I found it to be very helpful as suppliment to medication. I used it through a doctor first but eventually bought my own machine and did it at home 3 times a week. I checked in with my doctor once every couple of months. She trained me to use it. It's not a cure or anything magical but it does reduce my physical tics noticeably. The software is still behind current times but it's past NES quality now...it was just pong not that "long" ago.
Guys, EEG is not the same as brain stimulation. EEG just measures electric potentials generated by the brain. Stimulation uses external currents to mess with brain activity.
there have been kits and articles about how to do that at home with off the shelf parts for the last 40-50 years in various magazines. ALWAYS use battery power, add a couple op amps and a vco or some fancy digital display these days and away you go. the hard part can be finding the good electrodes and goop to make the contacts to the head.
Wouldn't have any "mind control" device a similar effect? Like, i.e games or prosthetic limbs. That would give a more practical use (and reach a far bigger audience), while keeping the benefits.
That's because it IS unwieldy, for anyone. Even EEG done properly is not cheap or simple, and EEG is not a wonderful method of visualising what is actually going on in the brain:
As the parent says, an EEG signal is complicated, noisy, and difficult to interpret. Many of the wild promises are just that; wild promises used to hype business plans. To get an idea of what's currently possible with state of the art research for implanted electrodes (which provide a much better signal than a surface EEG), the following nature video on research at Brown may help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ogBX18maUiM .
If you are still interested, it is very possible to play with EEG signals at home. The OpenEEG project is one place to start. If you are interested in designing your own hardware, the ADS1299 provides much of the functionality in a single chip (and allows you to do much more of the filtering in software where you can play more tricks). Noise is a major issue. You'll want good electrodes (sintered silver-silver chloride are best) and some form of electrode gel. You'll also want to look into signal analysis techniques; this in an active area of research for EEGs. The book "Brain-Computer Interfaces: Principles and Practice" edited by Wolpaw and Wolpaw (ISBN 978-0195388855) provides a good overview.
A small group of us are currently working on an open-hardware EEG-controlled mouse that you can build at home. It's still at an early stage, but we have managed to move a cursor on screen to a series of targets (and show via bootstrapping that we're doing much better than chance). The designs for the board and software prototypes can be found here: https://github.com/ericherman/eeg-mouse . If you want to be notified when we have something a little less prototype-like, send one of us an email and we'll start a list. If you want a better description of where we're at, create an issue on github.
You *can* play with this at home - either with your own software/hardware or someone else's. Much like writing a speech recognition engine, however, if you plan on easy success you'll be disappointed, but if you plan on a challenge you'll have a lot of fun.
Well, there's Nekomimi - cat ears controlled by brain waves. They recognize "relaxed", "alert", and "startled".
The problem is regulation. No home-equipment is certified to treat ADHD. And a lot of these devices/software combinations are pretty pricey.
Concerning the evidence for effectiveness, the fog seems to clear. There are dozens of studies treating ADHD children with neurofeedback and which have found it effective. The feedback protocols have narrowed down to Alpha/Theta and slow cortical potentials. These types of measurements are easily possible with the Neursky Mindwave equipment, which is pretty cheap and robust.
However, home use isn't exactly psychotherapy, and in most studies there is some additional assistance to help the children transfer these skills to daily life. AFAIK there are no studies using this home equipment.
There are no studies AFAIK that identified damage or negative effects with neurofeedback. The Mindwave headset for example only carries an AAA battery, so electrically it should be safe unless tampered with.
The program involved me sitting in a dentists chair while I had electrodes on my head. I played a dumbed down version of pac-man with my mind.
The basic way it works is when your brain is creating the ideal waves for 'focus' the pacman moves through the maze. The idea is that the child will focus on the pacman moving and through practice will learn to move the pacman through the maze without stopping.
Eventually we ended the program because it just made me so tired I would fall asleep in the chair. Booooring as shit. I suspect something like this would probably work better for an adult who cares more and has the focus to do it. I think I was too young at the time to really care to put more effort into it.
The Blade Itself
from http://www.huxley.net/bnw-revisited/
"Dr. Poetzl, an Austrian neurologist, who had recently published a paper describing his experiments with the tachistoscope. (The tachistoscope is an instrument that comes in two forms -- a viewing box, into which the subject looks at an image that is exposed for a small fraction of a second; a magic lantern with a high-speed shutter, capable of projecting an image very briefly upon a screen.) In these experiments Poetzl required the subjects to make a drawing of what they had consciously noted of a picture exposed to their view in a tachistoscope. . . . He then turned his attention to the dreams dreamed by the subjects during the following night and required them once more to make drawings of appropriate portions of these dreams. It was shown unmistakably that those details of the exposed picture which had not been noted by the subject provided material for the construction of the dream."
my understanding of this is that the human brain takes in alot more than we are aware consciously. and that and the REM state allows processing of the unconsciously retained experiences. Consciously retained experiences can be integrated immediately. This is a well known theory, but more than 100yrs later its implications have not been widely appreciated, or at least it _has_ been appreciated by advertisers and persuaders but not to the same extent by the every man.
There is an entire culture dedicated to Lucid dreaming, these people frequently associate it with all manner of mysticism that is largely considered unscientific, generally because it consists of unfalsifiable belief or falls to occams razor.
Recently, research on Gamma wave, an entirely scientific, measureable, signals present in the brain has resulted in the hypothesises that they are responsible for Consciousness through coordination of different regions of the brain.
when parts of the brain are not coordinated they may still function, but we are not conscious. When presented with an image a measureable gamma signal from 40-100 hz is produced within 0.5sec, when people are aware of the image. If this signal is not present people are not conscious of having seen the image!
In the brain are a type of neuron, gabaergic interneurons (parvalbumin ? i am not a neurologist but i have done graduate level mathematitics, physics and some chemistry). synaptic and tonic/extrasynaptic Gaba_a receptors channel Cl- ions into the cell and polarise it, increasing the electrical potential required to cause the firing and propagation of signal due to the release of neurotransmitter, which occurs when the cell depolarises. They appear be involved in learning, and Gaba may stabilize the growth of dendrites? (the roots of nerves) by allowing them to grow in a steady and controlled manner.
More immediately the PV gabaergic interneurons also transduce a calcium signal. Ca ions have an opposing effect, decreasing the membrane potential and making it more likely to fire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrane_potential
The cannonical numbers are something like; at equal [K+] inside, and [Na+]
outside the resulting cell membrane potential is -70mV. Mg can be inhibitory and increases this to -80mV and Ca is excitory and decreases it to -50mV.
The PV protein in certain gabaergic interneurons transduces incoming Ca signals and creates harmonics. It buffers incomming Ca and releases it to produce this signal alternation.
Other cells can tune into the various resulting signals, by selectively responding to particular frequencies. It has been found, experimentally, that a region of the hypocampus (where gamma waves originate) such as CA1 are able tune into regions thought to deal with long term memory, or switch so as to tune signals from regions dedicated to short term awareness.
Also, Gamma waves are not present when consciousness is not present.
Now where am I going with all this? :D
Well I believe that during Lucid dreaming involves mult
http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/neurofeedback-and-the-need-for-science-based-medicine/
and from Quackwatch:
Neurotherapy -- also called neurofeedback and EEG neurofeedback -- is a form of behavior modification that uses electroencephalographic (EEG) biofeedback technology to increase voluntary control over the amplitude and pattern of various brain wave frequencies. Proponents claim that modifying brain wave patterns is effective against anxiety reactions, mood disorders, substance abuse, attention deficit disorders and various other mental and emotional problems. Research shows that brain wave activity can be altered through various forms of biofeedback. However, a comprehensive review has concluded that none of these claims is supported by well-designed studies.
And it's pretty cool, you need to use your brain waves in order to control the ball and make it move, so, in that respect, doing a bit everything eventually gets you pretty good at having control.
Now we can watch those embedded alien souls at work in our minds.
"Neurofeedback At Home, Is It Possible?"
More to the point, is it desirable ?!
Maybe you should ask the NSA huh ?
hard call to make - use mod points, or participate. I'm doing my dissertation work in an EEG lab at UCSD, and while I don't actively research neurofeedback training (NFT from hereon out), my adviser and other lab members do. The OP gets it wrong - there is no cure for these psychiatric conditions. NFT may alleviate some of the symptoms, but it is likely the underlying etiology of ADHD, PTSD and Autism (which we investigate) is different enough from individual to individual that this may not be therapeutic for everyone.
A quick crash course in EEG. Neurons in the brain communicate between themselves via chemical signals. Some of these neurotransmitters cause quick voltage changes in their target neurons (either excite with inflow of positive ions like Na+, or inhibit with inflow of negative ions like Cl-). When you have large regions of neurons communicating with others, you'll see synchronized activity - say when someone touches your arm, the part of your parietal cortex that represents that arm will have a large amount of neurons suddenly get excited. When they get excited, they draw in positive charges, and there is a net negative charge left outside of the neurons. You can detect these fluctuations in more or less real time from outside of the head - but there are limitations. Where an electrode sits on the scalp will not give you a good idea of where in the brain the signal comes from. Between the neurons and the sensor on the scalp there are several different protective layers of tissue, some fluid filled with electrolytes, bone, and skin. These electrical signals are more likely to traverse laterally underneath the skull, than to penetrate out. What you record on the outside is a noisy, noisy combination of all the signals from all over your brain, plus some muscle activity (think eye muscles and jaw). In fact, the muscle electricity is a couple orders of magnitude stronger at your scalp electrode than brain electricity. It is mathematically impossible to determine exactly where a signal recorded on the scalp originated in the brain - there are some fancy algorithms to approximate solutions, but that is another thread. Without knowing where the signals come from, one way to try to figure out what brain regions are talking to each other is by decomposing the complex signal into its component frequencies using something like a fourier transform.
Psychiatric therapy directed NFT is supposed to work by identifying different brain frequencies (from hereon out called brain rhythms) at specific locations on the scalp that differ from the general population. There is a database of the general population's brainwaves for this process called QEEG (quantitative EEG, however this is a little misleading because all EEG since digital sampling/recording is quantitative....) and you can take someone with say ADHD and compare their 10 Hz brain rhythm at the site right over the center of their head to the 10 Hz rhythm of the general population. If there is less power (power = amplitude squared) at this electrode site than the general population, a clinician might devise an NFT program to focus on the 10 hz signal at that sensor location.
p00kiethebear describes a very similar protocol for what my lab employs. For instance, we have children with a diagnosis of autism come in and watch videos or play simple games, and when the 10 Hz signal is above the threshold determined by their QEEG diagnosis, the frames will advance. It is in essence a form of guided meditation. The control that a user develops is qualitatively different from person to person. There are no clear instructions you can give someone to help them figure out how to engage a specific brain rhythm. One kid described it as imaging a hand coming out of his head. Another described peeling oranges. I seem to have a stronger 10 Hz rhythm when I imagine kung fu forms. Go figure.
Conceptually, to do this sort of training at home shouldn't be too difficult. If you have the technical savy to follow the open EEG project you'll have the minimum amount of
i don't know karate, but i know ca-razy
http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Science-Force-Trainer/dp/B001UZHASY $40 at Amazon, and it's got a Star Wars theme to boot. EEG is literally child's play these days.
My first neurofeedback device was an OpenEEG. It ended up costing just over $300 and took about a week's worth of effort. While the end result was a functional EEG device, limited software support and hassle of use (dealing with ten20 paste, keeping electrodes in place) resulted in rare usage.
I highly recommend the MindWave Mobile as a cost effective, simple to use, and well supported EEG. Accuracy is low-moderate given that there's only a single electrode, but the device works and different states of focus are clearly captured.
For a slightly more expensive, more extensible and accurate EEG, check out the Emotiv products.
Sounds like a wet dream for Darwin awards.
The neurosky mindwave products are available for a reasonable price and have several good reviews from neurofeedback practitioners.
Amazon has several books on neurofeedback which have good reviews from parents and practitioners.
Biofeedback does work. For instance, with a GSR monitor one can learn to relax faster and more deeply and which aspects of relaxation are key: "feeling heavy", not moving, belly breathing, pausing after exhalation, progressive relaxation, etc. Don't do it lying down unless you want to fall asleep.
So as an epileptic who also has ADD Tendencies, I am going to build the openEEG projects and go from there. I do not want to control anything at this moment from it as of yet, however I would like to keep a better record of the things that cause my brain waves to spike and wave with my activities so that I can bring it to my doctor and help him bring some insight on to what is really happening. I know its not perfect, but it is definitely a start especially with the legalization hopefully approaching.
Interesting concept.
Now how about watching your seizures start (if you have epilepsy)? Watching your migraine start is fascinating until you have it. :)
hard call to make - use mod points, or participate. I'm doing my dissertation work in an EEG lab at UCSD, and while I don't actively research neurofeedback training (NFT from hereon out), my adviser and other lab members do. The OP gets it wrong - there is no cure for these psychiatric conditions. NFT may alleviate some of the symptoms, but it is likely the underlying etiology of ADHD, PTSD and Autism (which we investigate) is different enough from individual to individual that this may not be therapeutic for everyone.
That's precisely right. My lab does not do neurofeedback at all, so my knowledge might be outdated by about two years because neurofeedback paradigms are not something that I pay attention to. But nonetheless, my sense is that neurofeedback is a really cool paradigm -- but not even close to being ready for clinical prime time.
Like so much else in the brain, we don't really have any idea what neurofeedback means. What we do know, is that subjects are able to modulate their own alpha (10 Hz) power or bold response by viewing real-time neuroimaging measurements.
We also don't have any idea what mindfulness meditation means. We do know that alpha power is associated with mindfulness. We have some decent guesses at the pathways that might implement this circuit, regions that are synchronized in the alpha band. But we don't actually have any idea what's going on.
I don't know of any studies that directly examine whether neurofeedback can modulate mindfulness (or more likely, somatosensory attention tasks). That study should be done, but I suspect it would be difficult to find anything useful.
Even if it were done, it is an open question whether home-built EEG systems have a high enough signal-to-noise ratio and spatial resolution to even do this type of neurofeedback paradigm usefully.
Think about it: you integrate the Kinect (which reputedly recognises facial expressions) and let it do its thing while you watch TV. They record your expressions as the commercial runs. In exchange for this (sacrificing your privacy) they give you a discount on your monthly TV bill. I can see it happening.