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RC Plane Attack 'Foiled,' Say German Authorities
garymortimer writes with this excerpt from Sky News as carried by Yahoo UK: "German authorities are holding two men of Tunisian origin who they say are facing possible charges for the 'preparation of a serious, state-threatening act of violence.' Prosecutors say the men are suspected of 'procuring information and objects to commit Islamic extremist explosive attacks with remote-controlled model airplanes,' prosecutors added. Police investigating the terror plot on Tuesday launched a series of raids in Stuttgart and Munich in southern Germany and Saxony in the east. They also carried out one raid in Belgium. No-one was arrested. The suspects had been under surveillance for more than a year and authorities had recently detected 'an increased interest in explosives and model aircraft,' according to an unnamed security source quoted by a German news agency."
if i read the article, could i be accused of ''procuring information to commit Islamic extremist explosive attacks with remote-controlled model airplanes,' - i mean, if they go into detail about what was planned..... oh oh! they could even say "ive downloaded it onto my computer" with the cunning use of a cache.
...state-threatening act of violence.
Unless the model plane is the size of a 747 or the explosive is anit-matter, how is that a "... state-threatening act of violence." Is Germany in such dire straits that a single model aircraft can topple a whole country?
Tiller's Rule: Never use a word in written form that you've only heard and never read. You will end up looking foolish.
Yeah, I've only flown r/c planes for 40 years. They can NOT carry a big enough payload to do any substantial damage. Even full-sized Cessna's have been ruled out as not being able to carry enough explosives to be a real threat.
Say goodbye to RC as a hobby.
"..became radicalised by watching jihadist propaganda on the internet..."
Became "radicalised"??!! WTF?
You'd have to be mentally unstable in the first place to believe that kind of thing.
The only "propaganda" is blaming the internet in the first place.
Mind you I've seen Iron-man 3 so hey you never know.
The suspects had been under surveillance for more than a year and authorities had recently detected 'an increased interest in explosives and model aircraft,' according to an unnamed security source quoted by a German news agency."
Whoah there, fellas! So basically you've admitted to spying on innocent people for years, in who-knows-how-big of a trolling operation, and you finally caught two small fish who so far have done nothing more than "shown an interest" in something that might count as illegal?
I realize the FP doesn't involve the US, but I also thought Germany had gotten rid of the whole Stasi thing back when the wall came down.
Evidently not.
I wonder if the German government stores a database of every one of their citizens phone?
They don't need to. If you have a court order, the ISPs (which do have such databases) will provide the details you need.
Why can the Germans catch Islamic extremists using remote control planes, but the American government cannot catch Islamic extremists using pressure cookers?
Because, if you read TFA, these guys had been under observation for a year already. Basically, one of two things happened:
Either, the police decided that they won't learn anything new by further observation, or discover any more parts of the network, so to wrap things up and close the case, they arrested the guys and called it a day.
Or, politicians in charge needed something to distract. You see, they always keep stuff in store for that purpose. Pispers says it very nicely (on a different topic):
http://youtu.be/qRWAyM26YV8?t=5m42s (english subs)
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
It takes only one RC plane combined with an official state ceremony to wreak havoc on a scale which can be a threat to the state.
Power is too distributed in any western country for that. Luttwak debunked your claim in 1968.
You could blow up parliament and the state wouldn't be threatened. Sure, it would be in shock and all that, but nothing important would stop to function and we'd simply elect a new parliament the next month.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
I wonder if the German government stores a database of every one of their citizens phone? If they do, was that database used to catch these guys? Why can the Germans catch Islamic extremists using remote control planes, but the American government cannot catch Islamic extremists using pressure cookers?
Because ordinary people buy pressure cookers all the time. It's not a purchase that will be flagged; pressure cookers are not inherently dangerous, or typically used for dangerous purchases. On the other hand, buying explosives WILL get you flagged. I wouldn't be surprised if buying $200 worth of ammunition or $50 worth of gunpowder would get your other recent purchases reviewed. And if someone see's "remote control" anything on that list of purchases, they're gonna come after you.
Battlemaster--Game with friends in medival realms
I am sure Germany has all words to do with anything controlled/remote logged due to acts like:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Herrhausen
beam of infrared light or triggers via photographic flash units, engineering of shaped metals or RC are well known and any keywords around that tech would be tracked.
You also have movies like The Dead Pool.
West Germany has always had huge database options, resident registration and lots of cash.
The tracking and tapping of East German spies/helping the USA/UK would have made West Germany think about easy call tracing during all national telco upgrades.
A physical location eg one "Internet exchange point" for all intra-German Internet traffic would make tracking ~95% of the German internet trivial.
As mentioned by the European Parliament: Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System (pdf).
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getDoc.do?pubRef=-//EP//NONSGML+REPORT+A5-2001-0264+0+DOC+PDF+V0//EN&language=EN
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Yes, I am very aware such things exist. I also know they are out of the price range of your average nutbag.
Even a glow plugged engined thing that can lift a baseball is going to be many hundreds of dollars.
Nor is such a small device likely to be that effective. Flying an RC plane is not easy, not is hitting a small target like a person with one. Explosives in small quantities are also unlikely to do much, since they will be outdoors. This means a shrapnel weapon would have to be used.
Here in reality a $500 .308 rifle is a far more useful tool if you want to assassinate people.
Oh yeah, the terrorist thing too, but the actual story here is that people were under surveillance for more than a year without giving cause for their arrest. Particularly since the raid didn't result in an arrest, and the conclusion that the "terror plot" is at best a flimsy excuse to justify the surveillance is almost inevitable.
As a citizen in Germany, I honestly feel more threatened by that than by someone allegedly planning to put explosives onto a toy plane.
Because, if you read TFA, these guys had been under observation for a year already. Basically, one of two things happened:
To be fair, that loses some meaning when the NSA has us all under surveillance all the time now.
who doesnt have an interest in explosives and rc planes?
im interested in nuclear physics and DIY drones...does that mean I'm going to make my only nuclear drone delivery system?
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
So basically you've admitted to spying on innocent people for years, in who-knows-how-big of a trolling operation, and you finally caught two small fish who so far have done nothing more than "shown an interest" in something that might count as illegal?
Right. Most FBI-reported "terrorist plots" are like that, especially the ones that involve informers. They get a report of some loser mouthing off about blowing up something, and they investigate. They get some informer close to the jerk and encourage the wannabe to push their plan forward, often providing resources to help. Then they arrest the loser and announce they've foiled a "terrorist plot".
The most notable example of this kind of FBI activity was the "terrorist plot to blow up the Sears Tower" in 2006. Even the FBI Director said it was "more aspirational than operational".
When Al-Queda set up the 9/11 attacks, they had good operational security. Nobody talked in public about the plan, and many of the participants didn't know the details until hours before takeoff. What the FBI is doing wouldn't stop a real terrorist organization.
This isn't coining a new phrase, it's not understanding an existing one. Being wrong is not a matter of scale.
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Do you want to force people to have a background check for any object which can explode? What about water heaters, magnesium, matches, shredded paper, gasoline, and fertilizer? Or would you prefer any deadly weapon? Like kitchen knives, rocks, dirt, tree branch, scissors, keyboard, Pez dispenser, Aspirin, and concrete?
sudo make me a sandwich