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Obamacare Employer Mandate Delayed Until After Congressional Elections

theodp writes "If you hoped your employer would finally provide health insurance in 2014, take two aspirin and call your doctor in the morning — the morning of January 1st, 2015. The Obama administration will delay a crucial provision of its signature health-care law until 2015, giving businesses an extra year to comply with a requirement that they provide their workers with insurance. The government will postpone enforcement of the so-called employer mandate until 2015, after the congressional elections, the administration said Tuesday. Under the provision, companies with 50 or more workers face a fine of as much as $3,000 per employee if they don't offer affordable insurance."

56 of 600 comments (clear)

  1. Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by FooAtWFU · · Score: 5, Interesting

    More regulatory uncertainty! Yay!

    --
    The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    1. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by Enry · · Score: 5, Informative

      Not sure where the uncertainty is. Says right there - January 1, 2015.

      Not that having the elections matter about implementation. Obama isn't going to let a veto go through, and even if the Senate flips, there's going to be no way that there's enough votes to override a veto. Obamacare is here, get used to it.

    2. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not sure where the uncertainty is. Says right there - January 1, 2015.

      Right. Just like it said the deadline was this year, before...

    3. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by cod3r_ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe they did realize that during this tough economic time (that will probably go on forever since we only consume and don't actually produce anything) it might be a bad thing to force businesses to offer health insurance that is rapidly rising.. Our company only employees 22 people and we provide health insurance that costs us somewhere in the neighborhood of 75k/year.. Having gone up about 20% since obama care passed.

    4. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not what /. needs. I like ragging on the guberment any chance i get, but wtf does this story have to do with technology (other than using a computer to write it maybe).

      The chief reason cited for the delay is that the information infrastructure is not ready to handle the new processes and products yet. It is basically an IT project running 12 months behind (at 18 months out) and probably a few billion over budget, and we can all relate to that amiright?

    5. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by cayenne8 · · Score: 5, Insightful
      I dunno if it is that so much as, the sentiment is growing against obamacare in the US as more of it is coming to be implemented, and more people are seeing it for the steaming pile that it is....and how much this will cost the people is the bottom line.

      I think the Dems/Admin want to keep obamacare implementation out of the news by doing this, so as to not risk their congress critters that may be coming up for election.

      The law had some good parts to it...the sections pertaining to pre-existing conditions is good, and I suppose that letting kids stay on their parents insurance till in their 20's "may" be good, although I think most normal "kids" should be well out on their own and supporting themselves by the time they are 20-21.

      But obamacare when it comes into full swing, is going to raise the $$$ of healthcare quite a bit on the young and healthy. It penalizes people that previously had really good benefits at work, making them too $$ for the employers to continue to offer.

      This is what comes from "we have to pass the law first to see what's in it...".

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    6. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Informative

      Maybe they did realize that during this tough economic time (that will probably go on forever since we only consume and don't actually produce anything) it might be a bad thing to force businesses to offer health insurance that is rapidly rising..

      Our company only employees 22 people and we provide health insurance that costs us somewhere in the neighborhood of 75k/year.. Having gone up about 20% since obama care passed.

      $3400 a person for health care is pretty f'ing cheap. Most employers spend 8,000 to 10,000 per employee (not including what the employee contributes out of their salary).

    7. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by OakDragon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Not sure where the uncertainty is. Says right there - January 1, 2015.

      Well what was it a week ago?

    8. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by ggraham412 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Oceania has always been at war with East Asia.

    9. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by sjames · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that the people wanted socialized medicine and we got an insurance scam. Of course the correct name for this is Romneycare since it closely resembles what Romney implemented in Ma., but that wouldn't have made for a good fight betreen the R's and the D's.

      The real problem is that healthcare costs too much in the first place. You can't just insurance that away. What we really need is for the federal government to tell the whole crooked industry, "Just one more $2 ahh stick or $8 tylenol and we nationalize the whole damned thing!".

    10. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Having gone up about 20% since obama care passed.

      And how much did it go up in the years before obamacare was passed?
      Sounds like we were seeing double-digit inflation in health care insurance costs most years in the decade prior to obamacare's passage.

      http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

      Seems like the rate of inflation in health care insurance is slowing to a historically low level of 4.5%:
      http://www.foxbusiness.com/personal-finance/2013/07/02/5-easy-ways-to-reduce-your-health-care-costs/

      YMMV, but nationwide the trend is getting better not worse.

      --
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    11. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Having been tested in reality it has a lot better shot than some ideologically or "reason" based idea that somebody pulled out of their ass.

    12. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hawaii has a better method, which I believe is also unique among the states.

      Employers have to provide an insurance plan to their employees. The employer doesn't have to pay for it, just be a member of a group plan.

      I think the minimum employee number that requires this is 15. So if you want guaranteed coverage, get a job at any medium sized business.

      The part of the law that makes sense is that there is no 'individual mandate' provision.

      --
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    13. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The real chief reason is the democrats don't want to lose their asses in the next election when people finally figure out what a cluster fuck the health care bill is and how for many of the current people who HAVE health care already it will mean more money out of their pockets for worse coverage.

    14. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by dfenstrate · · Score: 3

      Not sure where the uncertainty is. Says right there - January 1, 2015.

      Not that having the elections matter about implementation. Obama isn't going to let a veto go through, and even if the Senate flips, there's going to be no way that there's enough votes to override a veto. Obamacare is here, get used to it.

      I'm not so sure about that. The policymakers knew upfront the ruinous act would cost them elections, so they put off the effects two years. Now they still don't want to do the damage they knew the bill would cause, because they care about this election's results as well. So as long as the elections are contested, they might keep putting off full implementation of Obamacare, rather than pay the price at the polls. They like their seats more than they want full implementation of the Affordable (snicker) Care Act. This happens to align with the interests of the nation.

      --
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    15. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by BoRegardless · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I respectfully disagree that it is just an IT delay. Problem will still be here in 2015 and people will still not want to sign up, plus the insurance cost raises will continue in at least double digits, so this is ALL ABOUT reelecting Demos in 2014 midterms.

      Obama, on the other hand, wants a broken system where everyone bitches, because he fully intends as he has said on camera before becoming President, that he wants to go to a single payer system (100% Gov't run healthcare), but just can't get there all at once.

      And in the end that means the Federal government and its enforcement arm, the IRS, will take whatever they need from you and me to support the care they give to everyone, whether we like it or not.

      This is a quick review of what tyranny looks like; Pay what the Gov't says or you are a criminal as there is no other option but to leave the country. New Zealand, Australia, Chile; they are all looking better.

    16. Re: Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So far, obamacare sounds a lot like the usual healthcares we enjoy in EU countries

      And Canada, Japan, Australia, etc.

      Unfortunately it's not. It's structured as a big giveaway to for-profit insurance companies and big pharma. Hopefully that will get fixed before it banrupts us. I've been a big proponent of UHC for decade, but Obamacare is about the worse plan to implement it I've ever seen.

    17. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The reason it's a steaming pile of shit is because you Americans are so afraid of the word "socialism" that you will implement the most ghastly, awkard and expensive medical systems simply because you're afraid that Jesus will puke in his cornflakes if you simply go to a universal system.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    18. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by jamesborr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But you have to remember that a significant "influencer" on the democratic side of the legislation was the trial lawyers guild (hence no tort reform in the bill). If we truly "nationalize" the industry, you end up either throwing the trial lawyers under the bus, which would probably be the best case for the taxpayer, but not good for a significant source of democratic campaign cash -OR- you have the trial lawyers going after the government directly for malpractice payouts. The former might actually be a plus for nationalizing health care -- i.e. the majority wanted government to run and be responsible for doctors and nurses and hospitals and so forth -- no problem, but don't sue if anything untoward happens or perfection is not achieved when government bureaucrats make the decisions on what and how care is provided. The alternative is somewhat scarier to be honest. Mistakes happen (which it seems like they must), the same or even empowered trial lawyers guild steps in to sue the government, which then re-directs more taxpayer money to those harmed, with the trial lawyers take a percentage on, which cuts another chunk of that lucre back to the politicians -- wash and repeat -- and see how corrupt this process end up...

    19. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by Petron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People were being sold socialized medicine... but many didn't want it.

      I would much prefer transparency in medicine, insurance, and allow insurance to be purchased across state lines.

      --
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    20. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by Sponge+Bath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      "Simply go to a universal system" would mean higher cost for worse coverage, just like in UK. NHS costs about $5K a year per taxpayer.

      Here is a better way of looking at it. Annual costs: US = $8233 per citizen (84% coverage), UK = $3433 per citizen (total coverage). Your "higher cost for worse coverage" is completely wrong and quoting cost per taxpayer is not an informative way to look at it.

    21. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Informative

      5 painful health-care lessons from Massachusetts - June 16, 2010
      Massachusetts struggles to rein in health care costs - Apr 30, 2011

      It’s a serious problem: Massachusetts boasts that 98 percent of its residents have health insurance, but the state is stricken by the highest health care costs in the country.

      Danger ahead? Massachusetts health costs are rising – fast. - February 9, 2013
      Massachusetts health care costs out of control as ObamaCare provision hits small business - Mar 4, 2013

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    22. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The NHS is a wreck for a lot of reasons. And really, it's a hybrid system, still allowing private health care in a limited form. Look to Germany, which has a universal system and manages it very well.

      And as to standards of care, well the problem in the US is that the standard of care is directly proportional to the kind of insurance you can afford. If you don't have good health insurance, or even health insurance at all, and you have a major medical crisis, you're in real trouble.

      I'm a Canadian, and while our system has its flaws, my experience with it has been very good. In 2006, my wife was diagnosed with thyroid cancer, had to have two surgeries, the lost one being a total thyroidectomy. My income was limited, we had two kids in grade school, and by the time of her second surgery the business I worked for had went under. We were able to keep our house (though finances were very stretched as I was on unemployment) and our credit rating and thus within a year or two, with a new job, we were able to deal with remaining debts incurred. In other words, a disease that may very well have proven ruinous in the United States was, in the Canadian universal system, not only survivable from a health point of view, but also a financial point of view.

      I make a lot more money now than I did seven years ago, and I suppose on a purely short-sighted selfish level I can grump about the amount of my taxes on top of premiums that I pay for health coverage, but having come out of a major medical crisis with my finances intact and without being saddled with a vast mortgage just to pay the bills, I can safely say even if the system cost me twice as much a month as it does now, I'd stick with the universal system any day of the week.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    23. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by compro01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Simply go to a universal system" would mean higher cost for worse coverage, just like in UK. NHS costs about $5K a year per taxpayer.

      You are either completely unaware of how much the USA spends on healthcare or you're using some really inventive mathematics, because $5k/year is substantially less than what the USA spends.

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    24. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by slew · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The part of the law that makes sense is that there is no 'individual mandate' provision.

      This is the part of the affordiable care plan that makes it "affordable".

      The idea behind insurance, it is pooled risk (not a right although it might be argued that access to healthcare is a right). The notion that insurance is the only thing that can assure access to healthcare is the root of the complication. Insurance is merely a financial responsiblility you have to yourself and your family. As with most responsiblities, the more we distort it into a right or a requirement, it loses the ablity to function the way it was intended.

      Insurance premiums go in to a pool and claims are paid out (okay, there is generally an investment component, but let's ignore that for now). For an insurance to be viable, the claims and premiums must balance over time that's why the pools have to be large to average out variation. By definition, on average, people must pay in as much as the average expected claim value. The whole social engineering part of this is that not everyone can afford to pay for their expected claim value. The attempt to "socialize" this is to require folks that have a negative expected net value for insurance enter the pool to subsidize the folks that cannot afford their expected claim value. Otherwize it will not be affordable to folks that expect to have more claims than the premiums they pay.

      Sadly, most folks expect they should be able to have more claims than the premiums they pay or they won't play. Or more perniciously, they attempt to overclaim to get the value that the "deserve". This desire basically ignores reality and destroys the model.

      My opinion is that we probably really need a hybrid system. With the current environment, a small (but growing) set of doctors are going back to "cash-patients". The overhead of insurance processing, and the low-reimbursment rates of medicare really signal that we are pretty far off the market level. Perhaps decoupling catastrophic health insurance from more common preventative health insurance will help. Maybe it should be formulated like flood or earthquake insurance into too-big-to-fail, but still optional pools. All other preventative health insurance should be "market", with subsidies for those that cannot afford it. Trying to combine all this stuff into one policy ignores the unknown catastrophic risk profiles that exist, but still should be socialized.

      Sadly, the Affordable care act makes subsidized high-deductable insurance plans non-conforming (both employee and employer need to pay a fine to the irs as if you didn't have any insurance). This was intended to force young healthy folks to subsidize the insurance pools. Unfortunatly, it seems that this is a highly regressive policy, yet one tailored to garner the maximum amount of support rather than to actually attempt to solve a problem. Of course the reason was done this way was to promote certain social agendas (requiring coverage for certain procedures and medical services). That is the mess you get when you put too much in the same pot.

    25. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by ranton · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's a good thing that no other country has tried anything similar with their health care. The costs would be astronomical.

      Right?

      No other country has tried to do something similar to Obamacare. Obamacare does not address any of the actual causes of the ever rising health care costs in the US, it just adds more people to the existing bloated system. It also increases regulations that will probably get rid of many low cost individual health plans, thus increasing costs even more (although quality of care will also increase).

      The things that help other countries keep their costs down, such as better malpractice laws, lower salaries for doctors and nurses, subsidized research paid for by US healthcare consumers, etc. are not addressed in any meaningful way.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    26. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by HeckRuler · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This. I can't stress enough that this is the ringing bell of truth.

      Our healthcare system has to change. That's for sure. Obama promised a lot. But by the time the econopocalypse creeped back from doomsday levels, what he proposed was not healthcare reform, but health insurance reform.

      (Which, hey, is also desperately needed. This bullshit with pre-existing conditions and the ways that health insurance companies absolutely screw people over and kill them has to stop. There are some really good measures in the bill that would fix some of the more glaring issues. )

      But it doesn't address the root of the problem. Tack on "medical" to anything and the price jumps a factor of 10x to 100x. And all the places that buy medial equipment, or hire medical staff, or hand out sterilized medical two by fours for therapeutic beatings are spending "other people's money". There's absolutely no consideration about the cost of this stuff. Indeed, the worry that they'd be sued for using the $2 syringe instead of the $25 syringe makes them prefer the expensive option. And the fact that they earn a percentage of the total cost of the transaction doesn't hurt.

    27. Re:Oh, look! Just what the economy needs! by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      yes, game the system. As in convincing non-medicare insurers to pay a bit more.

      Perhaps you should push back on those costs a bit harder. For example by not letting doctors write $500 prescriptions when a $4 one will do the job, not allowing every test in the book when a stethoscope will yield the answer, etc. Don't allow $100 dollar lab tests that any high schooler could perform in 10 minutes with $2 in supplies. Make doctors wash their hands for God's sake (a real problem sadly enough). If people didn't hear so much about deaths from hospital acquired infections they might be less concerned with the bright and shiny (which they mistake for evidence of cleanliness).

      I have no doubt people who can pay their bills don't. They see an OTC painkiller going for $8/pill and feel ripped off. People tend not to pay when they feel ripped off.

      The fact that every other country manages to cost half as much as here (including indigent care) demonstrates that it can be done. If you're not the problem, point out the part that is and let's fix it. But be very sure you're not the problem first. People actually ARE dying over it.

  2. well well well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And political expediency wins again

    The question to ask is why would they want to delay implementation until after mid terms?

  3. pay the fine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How many employers will just pay the fine. 3k per year per employee is less than a heathcare plan

    1. Re:pay the fine by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I pay about $65/wk ($3380/yr) into my employer healthcare. They pay about 3 times that ($10140/yr). Multiply that by the roughly 450 employees on the plan and it's the single greatest expense they have after employee salaries and taxes.

      Personally, I'd much rather take that $13500 (my cost plus theirs) in my paycheck so I could shop around for my own insurance. The employer offered plan includes tons of crap for women and children that don't apply to me, while omitting many things that would be a huge help to me such as hearing aids.

    2. Re:pay the fine by Nickodeimus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's because, as any intelligent person knows at this point, the republicans and democrats are two faces of the same coin.

      No one has approached or even mentioned the real reason for healthcare cost increases over the last 30 years. There is a little law that goes by the acronym EMTALA. Go read about it and apply a little economics to the equation.

      Simply stated, our masters have no desire to reduce the cost of healthcare because there is too much money to be made from a completely captive audience. Whether you take the capitalist point of view or the socialist point of view, the end result is the same - we the people get screwed out of our earnings and don't have a choice in the matter. The status quo is maintained.

    3. Re:pay the fine by jeffmeden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I pay about $65/wk ($3380/yr) into my employer healthcare. They pay about 3 times that ($10140/yr). Multiply that by the roughly 450 employees on the plan and it's the single greatest expense they have after employee salaries and taxes.

      Personally, I'd much rather take that $13500 (my cost plus theirs) in my paycheck so I could shop around for my own insurance. The employer offered plan includes tons of crap for women and children that don't apply to me, while omitting many things that would be a huge help to me such as hearing aids.

      Making health insurance/care portable would go a LONG way to making the entire system more competitive and the customers a lot happier, but the system (legally, financially, and historically) is basically set up to make sure that the cash flow for the insurance companies remains reliable (and growing). Do you expect an industry with a grip on about 1.5 trillion dollars of spending annually to just give it up? Hah.

    4. Re:pay the fine by Hatta · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Personally, I'd much rather take that $13500 (my cost plus theirs) in my paycheck so I could shop around for my own insurance.

      You might prefer that, but what about your coworkers with health problems? Who is going to sell them insurance at a price they can afford if you're not helping with the cost?

      The employer offered plan includes tons of crap for women and children that don't apply to me

      Right, and if you don't help pay for the things that don't apply to you, the burden is entirely on those who need them. That defeats the entire purpose of insurance, spreading risk by sharing costs.

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  4. Chicago style politics at it's worst... by Temkin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Conveniently after the mid-term elections, where frustration with this trainwreck might reflect badly on those in power... One Turkish professor said "He talks like the president of the ACLU, and governs like Dick Cheney."

    1. Re:Chicago style politics at it's worst... by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Dare to Hope, Prepare to be Disappointed

    2. Re:Chicago style politics at it's worst... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "5 Year Plans" are nothing new, where the hard choices are put off until after the next election, where they probably won't happen anyway. Or pushed into the next guy's term, same thing.

      That's why I laughed at all these deficit reduction "negotiations". Let's increase taxes now. In exchange, we agree to cut spending in 3 years.

      Which. Won't. Happen.

      It's a lie for domestic consumption. It's been going on for a hundred years.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  5. So, is this delay legal? by msauve · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is this delay specifically authorized by the law, or is the Obama administration simply going to fail to uphold a law they pushed to get passed?

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:So, is this delay legal? by mrego · · Score: 3, Informative

      They didn't want to enforce DOMA (formerly the law of the land), and Immigration laws either. It is called selective enforcement.

    2. Re:So, is this delay legal? by mrego · · Score: 3, Informative

      Wrong! States had a choice, take money/accept federal controls/create exchanges OR let the feds create exchanges. Both are valid, allowable choices. Hence no derailing, no stonewalling. The real irony is that many states had great health care plans for low income people, but had to close them down thanks to Obamacare. Too bad the Democrats wanted to create a bloated, byzantine, idiotic plan and pass it through chicanery and corrupt bribes on their own ("deeming" it passed, "corn husker kickback", etc.) instead of using Republican ideas. I love it when people conveniently ignore the facts...

    3. Re:So, is this delay legal? by sycodon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's called dereliction of duty.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  6. Re:This'll take awhile for people to accept by Temkin · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yea, we'll get used to having beurecrats make decisions regarding our famililies heathcare. I mean, having the IRS target the businesses of political opponents is nothing compared to denying Grandma her hip replacement because you voted for the wrong candidate.

  7. And yet the individual mandate still stands! by BillCable · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So at this point companies DON'T have to provide you insurance, but you MUST carry insurance. So all those people who would have been covered if the business deadline wasn't pushed back will be forced to buy their own insurance on the individual market. Either that or pay the "tax." This is a recipe for real disaster.

  8. Re:But the rest of us are still screwed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    It has been pretty well established that your smoking neighbor has lower lifetime healthcare costs than someone who is healthy. They tend not to live long enough to get the really expensive things to treat.

  9. More complicated by necro81 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While there is probably a political angle to the decision, the reason for the delay is more prosaic:

    Under the new law, companies with more than 50 employees must provide their workers with health insurance.* Those companies that do not comply are levied a per-employee tax penalty. Employees that do not receive coverage through their employer can purchase insurance on the open market, and low- and middle-income workers can avail themselves to government subsidies to purchase coverage. In other words, the government is attempting, through the tax code, to recoup the employee's health care subsidy from the employer.

    In order to carry out the employer mandate, the Treasury Department needs to know which companies are opting out and also which employees are subsequently utilizing government subsidies for healthcare. This is a technical challenge that the IRS (the Tax Man) has determined they won't have ready in time for the Jan 1, 2014 deadline. Businesses, too, have complained that their duty and mechanism for reporting who they are covering with insurance is difficult and onerous. So the decision has been made to push back the deadline.

    Because the whole mechanism is linked to taxes, it is difficult to push the deadline back by, say, six months, because it would be tough to figure out how to pro-rate both the subsidy and the penalty. Most health insurance contracts (employer-provided or otherwise) run from Jan 1 to Dec 31, anyway. So, they pushed the effective date back to the next tax / health insurance / calendar year.

    Yes, the new deadline occurs after the 2014 elections. But considering there are national elections every two years in the United States, pushing any deadline back by one year yields a 50/50 chance of passing over an election year. Would pushing it back just six months be any better, how about two years?

    * For those, both outside and inside the U.S., who are wondering why health insurance is a benefit attached to a person's job, rather than a social benefit from the government (like in most other countries) or something each person seeks on the open market (like automobile insurance), the answer is: "it's complicated." It isn't the result of any particular plan, that's for damn sure; but rather the long meandering course of history. Those who are curious should read Paul Starr's book The Social Transformation of American Medicine . The Affordable Care Act follows the path of having health insurance as a workplace benefit mostly because that is how most people in the U.S. already get it.

    1. Re:More complicated by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Funny

      ^the above is a very long, circuitous way to say:

      "We wanted it passed theoretically, so we voted for it; but we didn't really have a fucking clue about how it would actually be implemented and are only actually reading the bill now, and so need more time to study/figure out how to apply this catastrophic mess to the real world.

      Signed,
      Congress"

      --
      -Styopa
  10. Re:This'll take awhile for people to accept by ScentCone · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The difference is that in some areas decisions that were made by insurance companies are now made by publicly accountable government employees.

    Which would be interesting if the "publicly accountable" part were even remotely true. Look at the political actions of managers and supervisors in the IRS, and the utter stonewalling by that agency and un-shocking lack of curiosity by their boss who heads the executive branch, the president, as to who to hold accountable for exactly the sort of capricious behavior that you're suggesting won't happen. The IRS is hiring tens of thousands of brand new, un-accountable, essentially un-fireable new employees explicitly to have them make judgement calls about whether individual people have been sufficiently in compliance with a gigantic, byzantine new law that nobody understands. They will decide whether those individuals ultimately may end up having wages garnished, businesses ruined, homes seized, or spend time in prison if they aren't doing it exactly right. That you see such new power and enforcement in the hands of the IRS as an improvement is unfortunate.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  11. Employers already know the loophole by punker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They don't have to pay the fine, or provide insurance. They just make their employees part timers.

    I've seen some anecdotal evidence of this (from waitstaff at a couple different restaurants, security guards at my parking deck, blog posts). Unskilled labor positions (i.e. the people that were targeted to receive this benefit) are just having their hours cut to 30 hours/week because part time employees are not subject to the insurance requirement. With current employment trends, it's easy to hire some extra part timers to fill the gap. It's a non-issue for skilled laborers, because most already receive employer provided insurance.

    The real problem here is this law was intended to require a benefit (i.e. minimum compensation) for people who do not generally receive it already. So now, not only will they not get insurance, but they're also facing a 25% cut in income.

  12. What surprises me is... by RivenAleem · · Score: 3, Interesting

    How can any employer think that workers w/o health insurance work better than those who do? Most governments have figured out that the tax from cigarettes does not outweigh the cost to the economy of a sick worker, hence they are trying to get as many people to quit as possible. Health insurance is the same, the cost to keep workers healthy is worth it to have better workers. It also encourages the worker to stay with the company. The number of times I've heard of people moving job because where they were going had health insurance has to be some indication of it's worth to the employer.

  13. The 50 employee limit by tlambert · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have a friend who has a company which has 53 full time employees.

    He's been investigating how he can get rid of 5 of them, or at least convert them to part time, to escape this mandate.

    Stair step functions have always been a problem when designing things like commission structures, and so on. If I make 6% commission on sales up to $10,000 a day, and 5% commission for sales of $20,000 a day or higher, then I get 6 cents on a dollar if I sell $10,000 or less and 5 cents on a dollar if I sell more. So if I sell $10,000, I get $600, but if I sell $10,001, I get $500.05; I don't break even until $12,000 in sales, where I make $600 again, and I don't start making money again until I start selling $12,001 ($600.05). You can be damn well sure that you aren't going to have any of your sales staff turning in total sales amounts between $10,001/day and $12,000/day, and if they are unable to get close to, but just under, the next point at which there's another stair, you can be damn sure there will be customers hearing "We're out of stock today, but we have a shipment coming in first thing tomorrow, I'll call you".

    This whole "keep the insurance industry in business" welfare program for insurance companies this was a bad idea; if we are going to nationalize healthcare, we really should have gone single-payer and been done with it.

  14. Re:Fucking politicians... by Seumas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You're only now thinking that Obama is just as bad?

    The rest of us were telling you that bad during the first election. And guess what? The next guy isn't going to be much better -- regardless of whether he's Mr. Red State or Mr. Blue State. Might even be worse. Unfortunately, these rah-rah Reddit teenagers that get little baby chubbies in their pants as soon as they're old enough to vote, because "if we just vote Obama/Romney/Whoever this time, we will finally make a change to the world because this will totally be different than the past 230 years!" keep coming in thinking shit is just on the verge of turning around. Naive idiots.

  15. Re:Fucking politicians... by pnutjam · · Score: 4, Insightful

    While I have been disappointed in Obama, I don't think he is to blame for most of our problems. The real problem is out of my control. I can voter for a decent president. I can't vote for a decent representative for every small minded gerry-mandered district in America. You can see many states, Blue and Red that elect knowledgeable people who are good at representing the voters.

    But time and time again there are places that always elect the incumbent who has become too entrenched to do anything good, or pants on head crazy people who can't be reasoned with.

    We still try to do our best...

  16. Re:Fucking politicians... by lgw · · Score: 4, Informative

    its the most wonderful 'business men'. you know, the 'job creators'. all hail the job creators

    I'm not sure why you mock. It is precisely unemployment fears that have driven this decision. Job creation is something that human employers do, and that's the only source of jobs. There is no job fairy.

    Small businesses usually have employee compensation as their dominant cost. "Making payroll" is by far the chief worry of small business owners. If you raise the cost per employee, the number of employees per small business must fall. In a robust and growing economy you can get away with that - heck if things have been good for a while even small employers likely have some slack to pay workers a bit more. But when the economy has sucked for the past 5 years, there's just no slack to work with.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  17. Re:Fucking politicians... by HeckRuler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No the "rest of you" were telling us that he was a secret muslim terrorist hiding his birth cirtificate because it would show how he was planning to round up all the whiteys into FEMA camps and handing out their stolen wealth to the blacks and latinos while sucking the balls of Yemen, Crotkovia, and the Taliban.

    Those of us that were paying attention noticed that as a senator during the race he voted to give the telecom companies retroactive immunity in the warrantless wiretapping fiasco. That put a big damper on my enthusiasm for him, but he was still LEAPS AND BOUNDS better than McCain and his psycho-crazy-VP choice from hell. It was also pretty indicative of his future policy.

    And all that aside, he is WAY better than Bush. In some ways. And those ways are MASSIVLEY important. Now, Obama might be toeing the line to his corporate overlords and erroding civil rights just as much as Bush did, but he didn't unilaterally launch a pointless war costing trillions of dollars, thousands of US lives, and HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of civilian deaths. I just can't quite state how collosal of a fuckup invading Iraq was. Seriously. For all the spying that's happening under Obama's watch, he didn't launch any wars. This makes him vastly different and better.

  18. Re:Only Hillary can save Obamacare by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 3, Informative

    The silver lining of the Supreme Court ruling, is that Obamacare is legally a tax. Mitch McConnell realized that taxes can be altered, or eliminated, in the budget reconciliation process. If the Republicans can get total control, even by slim majorities, Obamacare will die. Hillary Clinton is the best hope of keeping Obamacare alive.

    More likely they will get rid of the employer mandate while retaining the individual mandate. The wealthy already have health care they can afford, so the individual mandate has little or no negative impact on them.

    --
    Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
  19. Re:Fucking politicians... by tacokill · · Score: 3, Informative

    Wait so with a (D) President and a (D) Senate.....you think the problem is the house of representatives because "people aren't electing who they should be"?

    Uhh, ok dude.