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BART Strike Provides Stark Contrast To Tech's Non-Union World

dcblogs writes "The strike by San Francisco Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART) workers this week is a clear and naked display of union power, something that's probably completely alien to tech professionals. Tech workers aren't organized in any significant way except through professional associations. They don't strike. But the tech industry is highly organized, and getting more so. Industry lobbying spending has been steadily rising, reaching $135 million last year, almost as much as the oil and gas industry. But in just one day of striking, BART workers have cost the local economy about $73 million in lost productivity due to delays in traffic and commuting. Software developers aren't likely to unionize. As with a lot of professionals, they view themselves as people with special skills, capable of individually bargaining for themselves, and believe they have enough power in the industry to get what they want, said Victor Devinatz, a professor of management and quantitative methods at Illinois State University College of Business. For unions to get off the ground with software workers, Devinatz said, 'They have to believe that collective action would be possible vehicle to get the kinds of things that they want and that they deserve.'"

35 of 467 comments (clear)

  1. Cue anti-union rage by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Unions seem to be blamed for everything wrong in the world of work on Slashdot but, even though I'm not a member because there isn't one at my company, I really appreciate the rights they have got for workers over the decades.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    1. Re:Cue anti-union rage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The grad student union at my university is responsible for me having health insurance. That was a while back, but not in the grand scheme of things. (I've actually never been able to find a date, but I get the sense it was a couple of decades ago.)

      That's not a minor benefit even remotely.

    2. Re:Cue anti-union rage by the_other_chewey · · Score: 5, Funny

      I've actually never been able to find a date, [...]

      What is this, slashdot punbaiting?

    3. Re:Cue anti-union rage by jamesh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yup. The amount of anti-union disinformation being spread here (I live in the East Bay) is insane. Blaming the unions while ignoring the boot of the upper class on your throat isn't going to help anything, folks.

      The thing is it's _so_ easy. There are countless examples of unions making the world a better place, and plenty of examples of union corruption making the world a worse place, so it's easy to back up any argument you care to make.

    4. Re:Cue anti-union rage by JDG1980 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Sure, me too. My question is, what have they done for us lately? Answer, fuck-all. Let's see them, for example, push to increase the minimum wage, so that people can even afford their union goods and services. What, they don't want to do that, because they don't have to worry about the minimum wage?

      Actually, unions have been among the strongest advocates of raising the minimum wage. Here, for example, is the AFL-CIO's position on this subject.

    5. Re: Cue anti-union rage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, smartass, how about the 40-hour work week? Holiday pay? Vacations? Overtime pay? Unemployment insurance? Compensation for injuries sustained while on the job? And all of the other benefits that we have that we take for granted that exist because working people organized into unions, fought for those rights, were beaten, murdered, threatened and coerced, and still managed to pry those rights from the cancerous, blood-soaked claw of the wealthy and privileged.

      Corruption can exist in _any_ organized group of human beings. With unions, at least their is some semblance of democracy. You vote for leadership, you vote on bargaining, you vote on dues. A union is democracy in the workplace.

      The American dream is dead, long live the European dream.

    6. Re:Cue anti-union rage by hedwards · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sort of, but ultimately overall you have to look at the big picture. Compare what things were like before and after unions and what things were like now as opposed to when unions were at their peak in the 60s and 70s.

      You can always find individual anecdotes and examples, but the questions should be whether we're better off with or without unions and why is that the case.

    7. Re:Cue anti-union rage by JDG1980 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You denied that unions favored increasing the minimum wage. I pointed out that you were wrong. Incidentally, a quick Google search shows 2,140 documents containing the phrase "minimum wage" on aflcio.org – that hardly speaks to an issue of peripheral concern.

      Unions take public positions in favor of a higher minimum wage, and support elected officials who want to increase it. What else, exactly, do you propose they should be doing?

    8. Re:Cue anti-union rage by TrekkieGod · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Unions seem to be blamed for everything wrong in the world of work on Slashdot but, even though I'm not a member because there isn't one at my company, I really appreciate the rights they have got for workers over the decades.

      I appreciate the rights they earned for workers myself, but I'm not in an union because unlike the rail workers of the 19th century, a software developer's job is pretty damn nice. If your job earns you enough money that you can support your family and put a little bit away for retirement, you can individually negotiate for more, but figuratively putting a gun to your employers' head by saying, "either pay me what I think I deserve or not only will I stop working, but every one of your other employees will as well" is unethical.

      I think unions do have a place in our modern society today, but not in professional circles. They should be reserved for professions where you have no bargaining position. If you have to take a job that doesn't pay enough for you to live on, but the employer is taking advantage of the fact you have to eat in order to cause you to accept his offer, you may need to strengthen your position with group bargaining. If you earn $50k a year, then either accept that this is what you're worth, negotiate for a raise, or find another job. You're not at a disadvantage at the bargaining table if you don't have to wonder how you're going to pay for your next meal.

      --

      Warning: Opinions known to be heavily biased.

    9. Re:Cue anti-union rage by bmarkovic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know it's unpopular to say that, but if there weren't global-level pressures from socialist organizations you'd get fsckall of those 40-hour weeks and work safety. Unions solved (and still do) issues on trade by trade basis. Overall conditions of workers improved only when powers that were felt grass roots pressure from protesting and increasing number of people going the red route everywhere. The whole red scare thing was more-less designed to create a stigma over a whole concept of labour rights in the West, leaving trade Unions to become charades quite often. Tho, charming personalities like Stalin and Mao helped a lot. Nothing says an idea is broken better than pointing at a perverted, evil implementation of it.

    10. Re:Cue anti-union rage by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are countless examples of unions making the world a better place

      Yeah, like Detroit.

      Oh, wait.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    11. Re:Cue anti-union rage by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Informative

      A lot of people here (I live in the south bay) are sympathetic until they find out the average pay for a BART worker. One thing they are protesting is that the BART Board wants the workers to start contributing to their retirement funds. Been in IT for 25 years and I've never been offered a completely free retriement fund.

      --
      Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
    12. Re:Cue anti-union rage by nbauman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I remember about 15-20 years ago grad students and adjuncts were complaining that they weren't getting health insurance from their universities.

      The universities had a good bargaining position, the individual grad students had a bad bargaining position, and the students couldn't get health insurance.

      When the grad students organized a union, and organized together, they had a better bargaining position, and they were able to force the universities to give them health insurance.

      That sounds to me like the union being responsible for the grad students having health insurance.

      The student tuition dollar goes to pay for a lot of things. When the grad students have a union, more of that student tuition dollar goes to the grad students, including for health insurance.

    13. Re: Cue anti-union rage by nbauman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      All that is true. Put it together and unions have one fundamental benefit: You have a much better negotiating position when you negotiate with your boss together as a union than you do when you negotiate with your boss as an individual.

      That should be obvious to anyone who understands economics, or even mathematics. If you go to the hospital as an individual with a sprained ankle, they'll charge you $2,000. If you go as a member of an insurance plan, they'll charge you $500. That's because the insurance company has a stronger negotiating position than you do as an individual. It seems that union wages are about $10 an hour more for the same job as non-union wages.

      TALKING UNION

      If you want higher wages, let me tell you what to do;
      You got to talk to the workers in the shop with you;
      You got to build you a union, got to make it strong,
      But if you all stick together, now, ‘twont he long.
      You'll get shorter hours,
      Better working conditions.
      Vacations with pay,
      Take your kids to the seashore.

      It ain’t quite this simple, so I better explain
      Just why you got to ride on the union train;
      ‘Cause if you wait for the boss to raise your pay,
      We’ll all be waiting till Judgment Day;
      We’ll all he buried - gone to Heaven -
      Saint Peter’ll be the straw boss then.

      Now, you know you’re underpaid, hut the boss says you ain’t;
      He speeds up the work till you’re ‘bout to faint,
      You may he down and out, but you ain’t beaten,
      Pass out a leaflet and call a meetin’
      Talk it over - speak your mind -
      Decide to do something about it.

      ‘Course, the boss may persuade some poor damn fool
      To go to your meeting and act like a stool;
      But you can always tell a stool, though - that’s a fact;
      He’s got a yellow streak running down his back;
      He doesn’t have to stool - he'll always make a good living
      On what he takes out of blind men’s cups.

      You got a union now; you’re sitting pretty;
      Put some of the boys on the steering committee.
      The boss won’t listen when one man squawks.
      But he’s got to listen when the union talks.
      He better -
      He’ll be mighty lonely one of these days.

      Suppose they’re working you so hard it’s just outrageous,
      They’re paying you all starvation wages;
      You go to the boss, and the boss would yell,
      "Before I'd raise your pay I’d see you all in Hell."
      Well, he’s puffing a big see-gar and feeling mighty slick,
      He thinks he’s got your union licked.
      He looks out the window, and what does he see
      But a thousand pickets, and they all agree
      He’s a bastard - unfair - slave driver -
      Bet he beats his own wife.

      Now, boy, you’ve come to the hardest time;
      The boss will try to bust your picket line.
      He’ll call out the police, the National Guard;
      They’ll tell you it’s a crime to have a union card.
      They’ll raid your meeting, hit you on the head.
      Call every one of you a goddamn Red -
      Unpatriotic - Moscow agents -
      Bomb throwers, even the kids.

      But out in Detroit here’s what they found,
      And out in Frisco here’s what they found,
      And out in Pittsburgh here’s what they found,
      And down in Bethlehem here’s what they found,
      That if you don’t let Red-baiting break you up,
      If you don’t let stool pigeons break you up,
      If you don’t let vigilantes break you up,
      And if you don’t let race hatred break you up -
      You’ll win. What I mean,
      Take it easy - but take it!

      Words by Millard Lampell, Lee Hays and Pete Seeger (1941)

    14. Re:Cue anti-union rage by Dahamma · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One thing that does annoy the crap out of me is when union "rules" prevent you from even perform your *own* simple tasks, requiring a union employee to do it/be present.

      For example, several times I have helped set up demos at CES booths/suites, and literally wasn't even allowed to move around furniture, unpack certain objects from boxes, or run/plug in certain kinds of cables without union workers. Sometimes we had to just sit there for an hour waiting for someone to show up to perform a 30 second task. That sort of practice not "protecting" the union employees from "management" hiring cut-rate non-union labor, it's extorting $100/hr for pointless tasks that they had no business being involved with in the first place.

      THIS sort of thing is why there has been such a backlash against unions - just like government agencies these days, they DO still perform valuable services, but the bureaucracy, politics, incompetence, and waste are giving them a really bad name. It used to be about COMPROMISE, but seems to be increasingly about ENTITLEMENT...

    15. Re: Cue anti-union rage by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My boss will get a smaller slice of the pie.

      Thus giving him less money to reinvest in his business, so the non-union shop next door grows, and eventually out-competes your company and you lose your job. Or your boss replaces you with a machine that wouldn't be cost effective if you had a more reasonable wage.

      If you artificially push your wages above a fair market value, don't be surprised if the market finds a solution that doesn't involve you being employed.

    16. Re: Cue anti-union rage by nbauman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Just ask all those union workers in Germany how it's worked out for them.

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2011/12/21/germany-builds-twice-as-many-cars-as-the-u-s-while-paying-its-auto-workers-twice-as-much/
      Frederick E. Allen
      12/21/2011 @ 5:42PM |60,178 views
      How Germany Builds Twice as Many Cars as the U.S. While Paying Its Workers Twice as Much
      In 2010, Germany produced more than 5.5 million automobiles; the U.S produced 2.7 million. At the same time, the average auto worker in Germany made $67.14 per hour in salary in benefits; the average one in the U.S. made $33.77 per hour. Yet Germany’s big three car companies—BMW, Daimler (Mercedes-Benz), and Volkswagen—are very profitable.
      How can that be? The question is explored in a new article from Remapping Debate, a public policy e-journal. Its author, Kevin C. Brown, writes that “the salient difference is that, in Germany, the automakers operate within an environment that precludes a race to the bottom; in the U.S., they operate within an environment that encourages such a race.”
      There are “two overlapping sets of institutions” in Germany that guarantee high wages and good working conditions for autoworkers. The first is IG Metall, the country’s equivalent of the United Automobile Workers. Virtually all Germany’s car workers are members, and though they have the right to strike, they “hardly use it, because there is an elaborate system of conflict resolution that regularly is used to come to some sort of compromise that is acceptable to all parties,” according to Horst Mund, an IG Metall executive. The second institution is the German constitution, which allows for “works councils” in every factory, where management and employees work together on matters like shop floor conditions and work life. Mund says this guarantees cooperation, “where you don’t always wear your management pin or your union pin.”
      Mund points out that this goes against all mainstream wisdom of the neo-liberals. We have strong unions, we have strong social security systems, we have high wages. So, if I believed what the neo-liberals are arguing, we would have to be bankrupt, but apparently this is not the case. Despite high wages . . . despite our possibility to influence companies, the economy is working well in Germany.
      At Volkswagen’s Chattanooga plant, the nonunionized new employees get $14.50 an hour, which rises to $19.50 after three years.

      http://www.remappingdebate.org/article/tale-two-systems
      A tale of two systems
      By Kevin C. Brown
      Remapping Debate
      Dec. 21, 2011
      American autoworkers are constantly told that high-wage work is an unsustainable relic in the face of a hyper-competitive, globalized marketplace. Apostles of neo-liberal economic theory — both in the public and private sectors — have stressed the message that worker adaptation is necessary to survive....
      But the case of German automakers — BMW, Daimler, and Volkswagen — tells a different story. Each company produces vehicles not only in Germany, but also in “transplant” factories in the U.S. The former are characterized by high wages and high union membership; the U.S. plants pay lower wages and are located in so-called “right-to-work” (anti-union) states. ... the UAW has made significant concessions on wages, especially through the creation of a permanent “Tier 2” level for all new employees. Whereas incumbent “Tier 1” workers earn about $28 an hour, all new UAW hires at the GM, Ford, and Chrysler earn around $15 per hour.

  2. US vs World by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Informative

    You know that this is pretty much US only? In Germany where I worked all of the engineers were unionized.

    Granted the unions seem to be quite a bit different. The UAW is quite a bit different than most of the German unions I worked with.

  3. Not True by mjwalshe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    One of the reasons the Unionized Uk telephone system was modernized (well ahead on the US i might add) with no labour disputes was that all the M&P grades who developed the new technology where union members.
    The CEO of one of the smaller uk telcos was even an activist in his younger days and I know that a CTO of one of the global telecoms companys was a member of my branch :-)

  4. Individual, not collective by Darkness404 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with unions is they view a worker as a clone of every other worker.

    For example, a young worker is unlikely to really need lots of health insurance when compared to an aging worker. Similarly an unmarried man most likely couldn't care less about maternity leave. But yet with collective bargaining, that young worker could get useless (for him) insurance in exchange for something that would be useful for him (vacation days, higher pay, etc.) and that unmarried man might get great maternity leave but at the expense of something that could be useful for him.

    Instead, contracts should be dealt with at the individual level, allowing for the best for both the employer and the individual employee.

    --
    Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    1. Re:Individual, not collective by scot4875 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you think you have the same bargaining power as an employer does -- particularly in a time of high unemployment -- you're delusional. You are not as special and irreplaceable as you probably think you are.

      --Jeremy

      --
      Jesus was a liberal
  5. Outlaw Government Employee Unions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The state of CA has a debt of what? $127,000,000,000 was the last I heard. Much of the tax base is leaving the state. Govt. employee unions are largely responsible for the utterly unsustainable financial situation of the U.S. state which has the most natural economic advantages.

    BART workers don't work in sweat shops and never have. They are overpaid and underworked like most govt. workers. Govt. employee unions should be illegal since they screw the taxpayer, the people who actually pay the bills.

  6. Re:Past their time by couchslug · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Now, they've priced the American worker out of the global labor market."

    The American worker isn't priced out of the market. For example, we export BMWs to mainland China. We don't need many meat puppets and nut turners to do that.

    The American worker is less NECESSARY because efficient businesses need fewer workers. Workers are an expensive burden, which is why even Foxconn is turning to robotics.

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  7. No Unions is why I have a Cali Tech Job by Midnight_Falcon · · Score: 4, Informative
    First, let me say I don't take BART (I drive, living and working within San Francisco) and am not really affected by the strike. However, I do believe in unions and their ability, in certain industries, to force employers to maintain standards of living wages and decent working conditions. We'd all hate to return to the days of the Robber Barons and the photos of Jacob Riis -- an era that unions helped bring an end to.

    However, in California tech jobs are not regulated very well by the state. Since salaries are so high, most tech workers are exempt from overtime -- and companies like Google, Zynga, Netflix etc are well-known to demand long hours from their employees without paying overtime (albeit paying decent salaries instead). One of the main reasons California and Silicon Valley is appealing to them is this, and also, at-will employment. Meaning, if an employee doesn't work out, it is very easy to fire them and replace them with someone else.

    The talent you have at a start-up is critical -- when your core team is ten people, having one or two free-riders or non-stellar characters in the mix can be a big drain on productivity. So, California makes it relatively easy for these companies to replace their staff, and both hire and fire new workers.

    If this wasn't the case, very likely the startup I work for wouldn't exist here, and would be located somewhere else. Dealing with union workers is the last thing a busy CEO wants for his start-up, they're busy drumming up business, promoting the product, getting funding, etc etc. My company rarely fires anyone -- but the talent is very good and stays motivated with little management. But if we do hire someone who needs to be managed all day, we do want to get rid of them without having to go through a union and a few HR lawyers. Startups simply don't have the resources for that, nor to spend money on someone's salary who is not ideal.

    In conclusion, there's a reason why things are the way they are.

  8. Bad P/R by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Unions simply have a poor reputation and haven't worked very hard on improving it.

    For one, they've failed the address the perception that unions protect lazy workers at the expense of the productive ones. They should actively encourage bonuses, for example, and allow some degree of "demerit" pay cuts. (They don't have to be biting cuts such that a worker has to suddenly sell their house, but allow small gradual demerits.)

    Second, they've often negotiated contracts with local governments that end up appearing one-sided during downturns, making the unions look unwilling to scale back in hard times. The problem is that local governments often think short-term because of election cycles, and unions take advantage of this stance in negotiations. While not directly the union's "fault", it does damage their reputation. Unions should ensure they scale back a bit more during down-times to match everybody else's experience. Sharing the pain makes you more popular.

    Third, they need to make their case in the media. Corporations trash unions left and right in the media, and unions have done a poor job of putting out their side of the story.

  9. Not organized ? by vikingpower · · Score: 4, Interesting

    That may be true. Yet, recently, I got into a conflict with my employer over wages ( not getting what had been promised ). Not being an affiliate of any worker's union, I threatened with a one-man strike. Of course, I took care to also inform the client to whom I was dedicating most of my hours at that moment. The result was impressive: the client wanted an explanation from my employer about what was going on, and wanted assurance that they would further be able to count with my work. My employer gave in, prolly because of fear for losing his reputation. Divide et impera, said the Romans. I can assure you that it was one of the most entertaining episodes in my professional life hitherto.

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
  10. Re:OMG, no please god no unions in Tech by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I dunno - unions can drive innovation. The primary reason AT&T funded the development of Unix was to break the hold the union had on applying firmware upgrades to telecom components. "Hey, all these boxes already connect to our network, maybe we could use that in some way". Ken claims Unix was "a weak pun on Multics", but it works just as well as Union-X, the union-busting OS.

    --
    Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  11. Re:Past their time by Jay+Maynard · · Score: 4, Informative

    Not hard to find. For example, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported in 2012 that private sector union membership was down to 6.6%, and overall membership was 11.3%, compared to 20.1% as recently as 1983. The 6.6% was the lowest since 1932.

    There are plenty of sources cited all over the net. A good place to start is this Wikipedia article.

    --
    Disinfect the GNU General Public Virus!
  12. Re:Past their time by mirix · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The American worker will always be 'priced out of the global labor market', unless you want to work for a dollar a day.

    Luckily there are tools to correct for this, like tariffs. We just don't use them properly because business owns the govn't.

    --
    Sent from my PDP-11
  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  14. Inefficiencies by hawguy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Of course, the flip side is that the union can add inefficiencies to the business and prevent them from meeting changing market conditions. It becomes much harder (or nearly impossible) to remove underperforming employees, and leads to siloed skillsets "I can't change that lightbulb, you need an electrician for that job" or "I can't unload that truck, it's not in my job description, but once someone brings the box into the building, then they can't take it to the store room, I have to do that". And I imagine that developers would get like that too "Well, it would be trivial to take care of that with a bash script, it would take me 2 minutes to do it. But since I'm a classified as a J2EE developer, I would have to architect a 3 tier enterprise architecture to do it, the team and I could have it ready to go 6 weeks after the business analyst finishes the requirements analysis. Unless, of course, you want to post a job for a Bash developer (and leave it posted for internal-only applications for 16 weeks)" I'm only half way joking after some of the BS I've run into at union shops.

    Which may be why my train can be 10 minutes late or even 10 minutes early yet BART still says "all trains are on time".

  15. Re:OMG, no please god no unions in Tech by jamesh · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I dunno - unions can drive innovation. The primary reason AT&T funded the development of Unix was to break the hold the union had on applying firmware upgrades to telecom components. "Hey, all these boxes already connect to our network, maybe we could use that in some way". Ken claims Unix was "a weak pun on Multics", but it works just as well as Union-X, the union-busting OS.

    So unions drive innovation by creating a situation where they are an obstacle that needs to be overcome? The sarcasm is strong with this one.

  16. Re:Past their time by Black+Parrot · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Now, they've priced the American worker out of the global labor market.

    From what I read about Germany, I don't think unions are the problem.

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  17. Re:OMG, no please god no unions in Tech by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, I'm a sysadmin in a union shop. The upside to being in a union is that it's harder to get fired for speaking out when management is doing something stupid. The downside is that people get complacent about their jobs. For example, when management wanted our VB programmers to learn VB.NET because we're phasing out VB6, they all said "no." In practical terms, that means that management is either going to have to find something else for them to do (such as application administration) or figure out how to let them go (which is going to be very painful indeed, for everyone).

  18. Well, why not? by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Did you notice that the corps have you fighting with the Union workers to lower your standard of living? They've got you asking: "Why do those guys get to live well?" instead of "Why am I struggling to retire?".

    That's the entire point of the anti-union narrative we see non-stop. It's what progressives mean when they say 'a race to the bottom'....

    Pay close attention to your views on workers rights and what a reasonable quality of life should be. Then ask yourself who's really shaping them and why...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/