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Snowden Offered Asylum By Venezuelan President
First time accepted submitter aBaldrich writes "Edward Snowden was offered 'humanitarian asylum' by Nicolás Maduro, the president of Venezuela. The country's official news agency reports (original Spanish, Google translation) that the decision was taken after a meeting of the presidents of Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Suriname, Uruguay and Venezuela. Maduro denounced an attempt to 'colonize' several European countries, and that he is acting 'on behalf of the dignity of the Americas.'"
The Guardian confirms.
Now the question is how will he get there? There is no direct flights from Moscow. Hell, some countries even denied Bolivian presidents airspace when they thought Snowden was on the plane.
Cuba Flight 455 blown up, 78 people killed, Posada Carriles (who, BTW, was trained by the CIA at Fort Benning) escaped Venezuela to the US, and currently lives in Miami after the US refused Venezuelan extradition, on the grounds that he could be tortured if extradited. (Judges generally don't do irony.) He was tried, and acquitted, in the US for entering the country illegally, in the course of the trial his lawyers made the interesting statement that ""The Defendant's CIA relationship, stemming from his work against the Castro regime through his anti-communist activities in Venezuela and Central America, are relevant and admissible to his defense."
Although you will find barely a mention of the connection in the English language press, Juan Cole connects the dots.
Little tip to Obama: this could be a solution for your prison overcrowding problems. Dump them on these third rate socialist shit holes. Just make sure you tag each criminal as enemy of the USA, and they will lap up anything you throw at them. Even if you pay for air fare you win. Try it.
The real solution to that is ending the War on Drugs and finally recognizing that anything consenting adults want to do is NOT a crime. Nice joke, though.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
Don't bet on it. If Russia decides it seriously wants to help, then they'll never even know he's left until he's in Venezuela. As of *right now*, nobody has seen Snowden since he got to Moscow. In fact, nobody has seen him in Moscow at all. Russia claims he's holed up in Sheremetyevo Airport, but nobody has seen him there. Nobody saw him get off the flight from Hong Kong. Is he still in Moscow? Was he ever in Moscow at all? I wouldn't take bets.
After exposing massive metadata-based surveillance by his government, he might have to take asylum in a repressive country that routinely has conversations between opposition politicians recorded, edited, manipulated and shown on state-owned TV. That is, excluding the ones that had to flee or were jailed on bogus charges. The bitter irony cannot be missed.
This post contains no rudeness or derision of any kind. All arguments are friendly. Terms and exclusions may apply.
The reality is that Chavez did more for social conditions in his country than any other president in living memory. USA hated him viciously because of his oil-based power in OPEC, plus his aversion to letting them control the destiny of Venezuela and from there the rest of latinamerica. And that's pretty much it.
You're pretty transparent.
Not to bash Venezuela, which has many fine things about it, but also on this theme of what he is getting himself into.
Not exactly the same, but from someone who tried to gain asylum in Venezuela and ended up leaving including due to aspects of culture shock: ... ... ..."
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/110706_mcr_evolution.shtml
"The Bolivarian Revolution and Venezuelan culture inherently knows that it cannot make too many exceptions to the rule that diversity must protect itself or else the rule will have no meaning. Thatâ(TM)s exactly what I was asking it to do (though I didnâ(TM)t know it) when I came here. I am not just one migrating gringo. Mike Ruppert could not be assimilated without changing something here: the Tao of politics.
That is why, after 15 weeks of waiting, after only one interview, a formal petition and a lot of pressure from influential Americans and Venezuelan-Americans (some with direct government connections) I have not heard a word on my request for political asylum. Venezuelans are inherently suspicious, let alone of a blond gringo who is an ex-policeman who came from a US intelligence family. It is possible that within the massive and glacially slow bureaucracy, some who are not loyal to Chavez have buried my request under a pile of papers. In Latin America things take much longer and I can see now that the waiting process, never guaranteed to be successful, is part of a natural selection.
The important distinctions about adaptivity are not racial at all. US citizens come in all colors. American culture is the water they have swum in since birth. A native US citizen of Latin descent who did not (or even did) speak Spanish would probably feel almost as out of place here as I do. They would look the same but not feel the same. And when it came time to deal collectively with a rapidly changing world, a world in turmoil, a native-born Americanâ(TM)s inbred decades of âoeinstinctiveâ survival skills might not harmonize with the skills used by those around him.
Start building your lifeboats where you are now. I can see that the lessons I have learned here are important whether you are thinking of moving from city to countryside, state to state, or nation to nation. Whatever shortcomings you may think exist where you live are far outnumbered by the advantages you have where you are a part of an existing ecosystem that you know and which knows you.
If the time comes when it is necessary to leave that community you will be better off moving with your tribe rather than moving alone.
And:
https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=13038
"The U.S. Department of State rates the criminal threat level for Caracas as CRITICAL. In 2010, Caracas became the deadliest capital in the world with the highest murder rate in the world, averaging one murder every hour. Much of Caracasâ(TM)s crime and violence can be attributed to mobile street gangs and organized crime groups. Caracas continues to be notorious for the brazenness of high-profile, violent crimes such as murder, robberies, and kidnappings. Armed assaults and robberies continue to be a part of everyday life. Every Caracas neighborhood is susceptible to crime. Reports of armed robberies occur regularly, day and night, and include the generally affluent residential sections of Chacao, Baruta, and El Hatillo, where host government, business leaders, and diplomats reside. Studies and reports cite a variety of reasons for the critically high and constant level of violent criminal activity in Caracas including: a sense that criminals will not be penalized; poorly paid and often corrupt police; an inefficient politicized judiciary; a violent and overcrowded prison system; overworked prosecutors; and the
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
I've come to the conclusion that Putin and Obama have reached some kind of deal. Putin is getting something he wants in exchange for agreeing to neither overtly help Snowden to get to another country nor requiring that Russia hand him over directly to US authorities. I have believed for years that George W. Bush botched the relationship between the US and Russia by being unable to understand the concept of quid pro quo. See, Bush believed that people should just do the right thing because it was right, not because they were going to get anything in return. This is a big part of why Poland, Bulgaria and Ukraine quickly jumped in to provide troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. They thought they were going to get visa free US travel in exchange. They pulled out when they realized that Bush was literally incapable of understanding that he owed them something in return. Putin somehow got burned by this too, although I have no idea what he wanted, and he has not forgotten it. Russia isn't going to provide any travel docs to Snowden, offer him asylum in Russia or hand him over to the USA. Venezuela won't send a ship because it fears that the US would just board it or maybe even sink it in international waters. My guess is that Venezuela will offer him a travel document that the Russians will accept, at which point they'll casually mention to their American friends "Oh by the way, Snowden is on flight XXX bound for Venezuela. Here's the flight path." and the US may plan an interception over international waters once it leaves European airspace. The Russians will then claim publicly that they are shocked, yes shocked, at this violation of international air space, which provides the plausible deniability they need.
You say that as if it were some sort of horrible solution or unprecedented. Historically, emigration has been a major safety valve, both for the unjustly accused and persecuted to save themselves, and for nations to rid themselves of people that didn't fit in. All European nations got through the last few hundred years that way.
Regardless of what you may think of Snowden, the fact that a non-violent, educated, and skilled guy has no place to go in the world really is a profound change in how the world works, and I don't think it's a good one.
This is interesting news, because I had heard, from a reliable source, that when Snowden inquired of his attorney where on earth he could best be assured freedom from prosecution under U.S. law, the lawyer had recommended Wall Street.
Ignorance. come on, the whole world jokes about how ignorant Americans are. An American couldn't "get it." No need for discussion and Americans are nearly hopeless to talk to about it, they are unjustifiably overconfident or dismissive on the issue. The Press is nearly dead... a farce. Good education is undermined and attacked (it's always easy to find something to complain about to justify attacking the parts that WORK. Critical Thinking, dead. Civics, dead. Creative Thinking, dead. School psychologist, gone..how dare they blame parents! Math test scores were too low to allow those other subjects...)
American culture has been promoting cowardice for generations now. Fear is the lowest common denominator for humans and it is not just exploited for politics - our modern marketing exploits it, our entertainment as well. The learned behaviors on how to respond to fear have been influenced as well. Americans are less happy and more stressed due to the impact of the commercial culture thrust upon them (which also has them praising it because it also raises us to love it.) IT IS A CULTURE OF FEAR - just spend some time here observing (not that these things are not being exporter abroad... they are. the UK does a bang up job of it.) The downside to having no shared cultural roots is that the population is easier to experiment on. As far as I'm concerned the only good thing about tradition is the temporary firewall it provides.
Propaganda is the source of the huge amount of working control over the masses today. America is home to some of the best of it, even Hitler got a lot of his research material from America. It was American propagandists post WW2 that renamed their new profession: Public Relations. Marketing and Advertizing being offshoots, applying the same techniques... and new ones. The military may weaponize all science but PR weaponizes all social science... and quickly makes it publicly available as a service to anybody with money.
American working poor live well enough; the middle class is happy enough during their decades of decline that it is not enough to get off their addictions long enough to do anything about it. The primary one being consumerism, the main tool behind it all: television.
Also, try arguing with an American in person. Observe the others around you as well. It is almost like you were in a fight, the unpleasantness to the viewers and the participants. See how disagreement is so contentious and how you will be judged and grudges formed simply by your disagreement. The people are WIMPS -- except in New York where everybody being rude has somewhat shielded them. Why learn the actual NEWS when it is so upsetting and depressing?? Turn on GOP TV and hear what "you" want to hear...(aka Fox News - BTW, the project name was GOP TV.) Personalization has led to wall gardens that /. people hate so much-- like the phones, it's more of an invisible fence that you don't mind being restricted to... even enjoying your confinement...
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