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According To YouGov Poll, Snowden Support Declining Among Americans
eldavojohn writes "A recent poll from the YouGov consisting of one thousand responses shows that Snowden's support among Americans has shifted. Now, according to the poll, more Americans think he did the wrong thing rather than the right thing when asked: 'Based on what you've heard, do think Snowden's leak of top-secret information about government surveillance programs to the media was the right thing to do or the wrong thing to do?' The results and breakdown are available online (PDF). Without getting into racial or political breakdowns, the results now show that 38% say he did the wrong thing, 33% say he did the right thing and 29% remain undecided about the results of his actions. Instead of charging the populace into action Snowden may be facing apathy at best and public disapproval at worst."
From The Q&A Snowden had with readers of The Guardian:
Q: What would you say to others who are in a position to leak classified information that could improve public understanding of the intelligence apparatus of the USA and its effect on civil liberties?
A: This country is worth dying for.
Despite this latest poll, I still think Snowden was right. Future generations will hail him as the hero he is. And that's coming from a non-American...
This isn't terribly shocking. If the last several years have told us anything it's that the American people don't really care if the government abuses its authority. Remember the Nixon scandal? That guy tried to wiretap a *single office* and the only reason that he wasn't impeached is because he resigned before congress could file the impeachment paperwork. Yet, when the government started wiretapping citizens years ago due to "national security" reasons, there was no such uproar. Sure, there were a few people that wanted the president impeached, but there was no real support for it. It's no surprise that the recent news of the wiretapping being larger than we thought has fallen on deaf ears.
Every single issue over the last couple decades has been met with more and more apathetic responses. The problem is going to get far worse before it gets better.
-1 disagree is not a modifier for a reason. -1 troll, flaimbait, redundant, overrated are NOT acceptable substitutes.
Whistleblower: The government is watching you. The wealthy elite are enslaving you. The politicians are oppressing you. These facts are obvious, and I have proof.
Public: Meh.
I hate printers.
...when you condider the 24/7 anti-Snowdon propaganda in the US-media.
Shooting the messenger has a long tradition.
Is this really a surprise? Most sections of the media have spent the last month or so trying to portray Snowden as a traitor, who's weakened the national security of several countries, endangered inter-governmental cooperation (because now they know they were all spying on each other rather than just assuming they were), is possibly a bit weird and is now "palling around" with Russian and various South American states who are "enemies of teh freedoms".
In that context, of course peoples' opinions are going to start to shift.
Wow does this headline have things reversed.
Edward Snowden has been subjected to a month long attack campaign. This started with go after his girlfriend for being a pole dancer. It followed with other negative news stories and criticism by major politicians. From there there was a federal espionage indictment. He then had to flee the country and the USA has gone to extraordinary lengths putting pressure on countries to isolate him. The media has been mainly complicit. And after all that is approval rating has dropped a mere 5 points.
That's the story.
By continuously shifting the attention away in the media from the human rights violations to what Snowdon is doing now (sitting on an airport) or did (show that the government is acting outside the law) people get bored. And especially since the violations of Americans' own rights is covered by law (that is implemented in a completely unaccountable way, though) the American people forget even more. But the European people - not their politicians, of course - are furious. If one chooses to be a diplomat or a politician, one knows there will be eavesdropping. But when I write a letter to someone, a foreign government that is supposed to be an allie should stay the f**k out of my mail: paper and electronic alike. Of course, I'm also blaming the United Kingdom. The western world induces terrorism itself by performing terrorism in other parts of the world. Conquer and divide. Give them weapons, let them fight each other as long as our companies' interests are ensured. Shoot people on flimsy evedence with a drone, without a trial, in countries we're not at war with. And the bloddy mess (innocent civilians) is a don't care. They are not our boys, but theirs. No wonder people start to fight back. People like Snowdon and Bradley Manning are necessary to show that politicians commit war crimes, blackmail countries and violate every possible law that's about humanity. That is because they act not in our interests (the public, the believed to be free people) but in the interest of big companies. Who also happen to own the media. And there goes your information, your well informed opinion and as a result yout humanity. The trend that you're seeing in this article is indifference. Governments are lobby clubs that lie to their people and allies alike. And they succeed.
You summarized this well, in a way that even sheep should understand ;-)
The proper channels do not work. There is no "right" way to be a whistleblower. The systems are in place to define any possible effective attempt to whistleblow something this big as "wrong".
Life for most of us is already complex enough. We know we are in a tiny sinking life raft with an insane incompetent captain on a hostile ocean filled with sharks. If someone then starts to show just how leaky the boat is by poking at its holes... well, they can expect a punch in the face.
Those that are upset by all the revelations are the people who thought the captain was competent and sane, the ocean was our natural home, the raft an ocean lines and the sharks to be dolphins.
In reality of course, the spying while much worse then what the dreamers thought is probably in reality far less effective. If it worked, they would be capturing more terrorists and criminals. Most of us in the real world DREAM of an effective secret shadow government ruled by aliens, it would mean that for once somebody intelligent was in charge. Or at least something with a plan. It doesn't matter that the plan is to harvest your organs, at least it is a goddamn plan.
Take the attitude in the US towards veterans. The average American KNOWS the average US veteran is a war criminal. Plenty of examples even very clear once like the Mai Lai masacre. Point out however that just because someone is a vet, they are therefor NOT automatically worthy of worship and they will spout all sorts of nonsense, even going so far as liberals stating that orders are orders.
The same people who cry foul (justly so) over Japan worhshipping its war criminals, can't see the tree in their own eye.
Because it rocks the boat. And people HATE that.
Ideally people want today to be followed by tomorrow and for it to be not to much worse.
If you read about daily life in the death camps of the holocaust, the normalcy of it all is the most shocking. Life went on, even if all around you it didn't. The same is true of children raised in the most appalling conditions. Humans adapt, to ANYTHING. It allows us to survive. Both Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett have written about this, we all need to be slightly drunk all the time because if we ever saw the world sober, we would lose our minds.
Think about this, while you are reading me prattling on, children are being hurt and killed, are dying of hunger RIGHT now and all your are doing is wishing you had mod points to mod me up/down. YOU (and I, because I am prattling on while I could be saving someone) can't deal with the real world all the time.
And snowden tried to force us to do so, to see the man behind the curtain and we hate him for it. Well not hate, just wish he would go away so we can pretend the world ain't that bad after all.
Want proof? Red nose day. A british charity event were they gather money through comedy. It is VERY succesful. Because it offsets the horrors for which the money is needed with plenty of entertainment and happy endings to make us forget how horrid it all is. Charity organizers know this, you show a BIT of misery, the photogenic part because if you just show thousands of dead children, nobody would donate anything because nobody would watch. Show however a story of how a child went from carrying water all day to sitting in a happy classroom and you can't accept the donations fast enough.
Snowden showed us the Auswitz that is our privacy and we can't cope. It is to much, to far. He didn't just rock the boat, he nuked it out of existence. And have us nothing in return. He didn't give us any tools to stop Prism. EVERYONE is in favor. The only ones speaking out against it so far are SOME tea party members and socialist semi-dictators. In Europe NOBODY has spoken out against it.
We can now either face the full machinations of the system OR wish Snowden went away.
I am betting on the latter. Because I am a old middle class man who frankly has every bit of fight beaten out of him. I used to be an activist for a local union, then had people who fought me every way demand that they get all the benefits they didn't fight for... let someone else fight this fight. I am done and frankly I can see why some people walk f
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Odd, ain't it? How the US resemble more and more the USSR after the USSR is no longer...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
there is always some dumb hipster to get on facebook, or social media, or in some bar, and go:
"well the government finds my cute pictures of cats, my kinky texts to my gf, and my like of korean-mexican fusion, so what?"
To brag to the world he holds no controversial opinions, does no activism, thinks nothing more about fitting into his sister's jeans, foodie obsessions, and the latest pop culture trends and celebrities he worships. Of course the implication is that everyone else is doing bad things, and he's naturually better.
Its a sole reminder there is a social latter and dissent is a good excuse for competitors in climbing it to kick you down a notch for sticking up for your rights.
You Americans deserve what you're about to get.
I suspect that this has more to to with the limited public attention span fostered by the 30-second soundbite that passes for journalism these days. I don't think the symptom is unique to the US. All of the media seem to be in a conspiracy to disengage peoples' brains from actually thinking about what they are reading.
I suspect this is why so many of the media manage to get away with recycling the same syndicated garbage day after day (or sometimes for weeks on end). This is why I absolutely refuse to take out subscriptions to any of the major media.
I'm pretty sure most people work for a living, and it's a small minority - about 1%, in fact - that steals from said productive people to support their parasitic lifestyle. And that would be a minor annoyance by itself, except that's not enough for them - no, they play at being "businessmen" by recklessly endangering the livelihood of the productive majority for their economic poker games, and then start throwing insults at the very same people who's labour supports them.
Who are these mystical "producers", since they are apparently not the employees in your mind? And why are you upset that the working class and the owning class define their relationship through laws, given your own insistence on the importance of the rule of it? Does it simply burn you that some laws actually side with the serfs rather than the parasites on top?
All systems are destined to failure due to nothing lasting forever, it's the inevitable consequence of time passing in a reality where chaos theory holds. Your assertion is dramatic but meaningless.
So how does that equality before the law work when both parties are responsible for paying for their lawyers and the other has thousands of times as much available cash? How does equality of opportunity work when taking any opportunity likely has investment and opportunity costs and one party can pay them and the other can't?
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Thanks for providing the view of the political class, which views all this as perfectly okay, and can't understand why anyone would be upset. After all, you have secretly decided that secretly keeping all this data is okay because there is a secret court that makes secret decisions and secret warrants and the people really need to just trust it all to be perfectly fine.
Of course there is abuse, just as Russ Tice has pointed out. That's easy because it's all in secret, and everybody is on the same team. You think if someone goes beyond the 7 days they are allowed to listen to calls without a warrant that anyone is going to raise a stink? The secret warrants are always granted anyway, and none of those guys are going to say anything about going beyond the secret rules. Hell, even when cops get caught on camera beating up citizens all the other cops circle the wagon and defend them and act like it was all perfectly okay - they were just "protecting the public". No wonder Snowden decided he had to get out of the country before he said anything. You deviate from being a team player in that environment and you're toast.
In the NSA game, there is NO scrutiny whatsoever. No citizen cell phones. No public court records. No accountability other than all the foxes pointing at all the other foxes going "No, no, we have rules and a system and we're all watching each other." Then a few hens go missing and SURPRISE! None of the foxes saw anything - must have been a terrorist that slipped through their oh-so-important net.
Those of us NOT part of your political class are pretty outraged, not just at what Snowden revealed (we pretty much knew it was happening), but the entire attitude of you and members of the political class entirely dismissing any complaints as unfounded, and telling people they need to just "trust" them. Clapper admitted to lying, and why isn't he in jail? Martha Stewart spent years in prison for less. Oh, but Martha isn't part of the club, is she? It's disgusting watching the entire federal apparatus lying and stealing and acting like it's all perfectly okay for them to do while they kill and imprison the people for lesser crimes, and damn Snowden for making them have to defend themselves.
And of course this is all backwards for a functional free society, which values personal privacy, but abhors government privacy. The US government is now advocating the opposite - that government should be doing all of these things in secret, and that the citizens should be okay with having no privacy at all. Transparency in government is the first requirement for a consensual governing. Without that, only tyranny can result.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Who or what are the government officials who want to prosecute Snowden protecting? Are they protecting the Constitution or themselves?
If the founders were so worried about the people's decisions, why did they bother mentioning things like "we the people" that emphasized a nation made up of free citizens?
I'm not sure who you are saying is being attacked when you say "productive class". Are you saying that only people who own business are productive? How do you explain Dept. of Labor reports that say something like 'productivity increased .3% in the last quarter' then? Workers had nothing to do with that? It's not just the owners of capital who are taxed. The workers are taxed too. And last I heard, corporate exec compensation was more than 100x what the average employee pay was. Doesn't sound like they are suffering to me
"To stop the terrorists."
Where do you get yours? From the people who don't want to get their dainty hands dirty but claim the credit for the accomplishments of those who do, and then show contempt for them?
The grandparent talked about "unproductive majority" and "productive minority", and then went on to imply that the employees - the people who actually produce every single thing produced in this or any other country - are examples of the former. That is a lie, regardless of what Marx or anyone may or may not have "admitted".
Also, society can take burdens. It can support the needy poor, and it could easily support the idle rich. What it can't take is wolves who prey on others, and then try to blame their victims for the results. That's nothing more than the divine right of the kings revisited, and will end the same way as the last time.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.