Slashdot Mirror
Russian Federal Guard Service "Upgrades" To Electric Typewriters
Razgorov Prikazka writes "The Russian Federal Guard Service (FSO), who are in charge of protecting high level politicians like president Putin (amongst others), are 'upgrading' to electric typewriters for writing sensitive documents. They have found out that computers pose a security risk and this is their answer to it. On first sight this seems like a very pragmatic and cost-efficient thing to do. However, the FSO has its roots in the KGB and those were the ones who placed keystroke loggers on the popular IBM Selectric electric typewriter 40 years ago! So how much safer does this make them?"
I suspect having a device that has only one purpose, as compared to a computer, it is much less likely to be compromised and much easier to detect.
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
It's probably cheaper than trying to out-bid American hipsters for old Remington typewriters.
THL phish sticks
To place a keylogger on a typewriter you need physical access to the typewriter... to place a keylogger on a computer you need the internet...
I can see the advantage...
When your opponent has access to your hardware, you've already lost. That's true whether its a mechanical typewriter, electric typewriter, or a computer.
No written communications. This whole writing and reading thing is overrated, and apparently can be dangerous.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/_files/cryptologic_histories/Learning_from_the_Enemy.pdf
I was driving by Fort Meade today and I heard a collective scream of "PUUUUUTTTTTIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!" coming from the NSA headquarters. Every single PRISM employee screamed in agony.
sudo make me a sandwich
I remember reading a slashdot story years ago where researchers were able to determine which keys on a computer keyboard were pressed just by the sound they produced mechanically. I would think it would be even easier to use this technique against a typewriter.
Better known as 318230.
I... huh... mean the game, of course!
The Ball-type IBM Selectric typewriters had a flaw that made it easy to tell what was being said just by the sound and delay between characters. You didn't even have to have the listening device in the typewriter, it could be across the room if it was "directional" enough.
While you could probably decode a lever-type typewriter's activity from just a good sound recording, it's probably much harder.
Oh, and as for trying to decode an inkjet- or thermal- electric typewriters just by the noise, "good luck with that."
Of course, today, if you can plant spy equipment in the room where the person is typing and you are good and well-funded, you don't need to rely on the noise the typewriter makes. Or, to put it another way, if you have a determined adversary who is significantly better than you, it's probably "game over" before the game even begins.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
I hear Johannes Gutenberg's estate has some pretty sweet deal on printing press... low millage, never used in the winter!
However, the FSO has its roots in the KGB and those were the ones who placed keystroke loggers on the popular IBM Selectric electric typewriter 40 years ago! So how much safer does this make them?
"Somewhat".
If your adversary has physical access to any piece of hardware, it's impossible to secure. Period. One can install a keystroke logger on a modern computer keyboard as well. Switching to non-networked, 'dumb', electric typewriters doesn't block this avenue for attack.
On the other hand, depending on the typewriter's features, it will be very difficult or impossible to remotely compromise, or to compromise using non-hardware approaches. Entire classes of attacks are rendered irrelevant.
To be fair, this does introduce some new potential avenues for attack--increased physical document handling means additional risks related to moving and securing bits of paper.
~Idarubicin
Can Toasters type ?
"The Russian Federal Guard Service (FSO), who are in charge of protecting high level politicians like president Putin (amongst others), are 'upgrading' to electric typewriters for writing sensitive documents. They have found out that computers pose a security risk and this is their answer to it. On first sight this seems like a very pragmatic and cost-efficient thing to do.
This kind of reminds me of the Colonial solution to Cylon infiltration in the re-imagined BSG TV series. Obviously not perfect, but also simple and good enough. It is not something we in the U.S. - with so much resources to waste (and fall into further debt) would think about.
However, the FSO has its roots in the KGB and those were the ones who placed keystroke loggers on the popular IBM Selectric electric typewriter 40 years ago! So how much safer does this make them?"
It makes them safer from UNWANTED/EXTERNAL infiltration. Infiltration by them is just fine. In the world of political/military security and intelligence, safety does not mean impenetrability. It means resilient to infiltration that you do not want. This is a completely different requirement from the requirement of "safety" as understood in the commercial/private sector.
To place a keylogger on a typewriter you need physical access to the typewriter... to place a keylogger on a computer you need the internet...
And if said computer is never connected to any networks how do you propose to install said keylogger?
Three words: Whited out text
Given modern technology and the ability to extract information from the brain via radio, the biggest threat this department will face over the next decade will be information leaked by people thinking about certain plans outside of shielded environments.
I suppose the next big thing in security training, will be people with extensive experience on such systems and the ability to withhold information.
Looks like all those "targeted individuals" will be the only ones able to operate in such an environment.
You still need to physically get a bug into the room where the typewriter is. I imagine this is a lot harder and certainly carries far more personal risk than siting half way around the world and connecting via the net.
Have gnu, will travel.
UEFI?
* Carthago Delenda Est *
A while back someone did some research and published it on keystroke logging via audio capture. They found they were able to reliably determine what someone was typing just from the sound of their typing. I have to imagine that would work here.
http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2005/09/14_key.shtml
Though, maybe they also run white noise generators in the office?
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Now lets go to Leon Panetta for his comments:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWaLxFIVX1s
Can you tell me about the HOSTS file too?
sudo make me a sandwich
article reminds me of an electronic typewriter that had its own keyboard, screen and word processor. i think it had its ow floppy drive to save documents on it and its own printer too. i forgot the name or brand of the electronic typewriter.
http://www.snopes.com/business/genius/spacepen.asp
1 pencils are a FIRE HAZARD in space
2 the pen in question was developed by Fisher and sold to NASA (and the russian counterpart)
Any person using FTFY or editing my postings agrees to a US$50.00 charge
Pre-flight instructions for passengers about to depart Russian airports:
Please turn off all electronic devices, including mobile phones, laptop computers, tablet computers and electric typewriters...
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Ah, but the age-old problem of the ribbon can remain on ribbon units, even with a manual unit. The detective stories of yesteryear often involve reading the ribbon to see what was typed...one can sometimes even decipher the last paragraph from impressions on the rubber roller the keys strike.
Handwritten notes, written on a hard surface instead of a pad where impressions can be left, is a fairly "hack-proof" method.
If they're smart, they'll have a policy of burning the ribbons after typing a page of gobbledygook...every time the operator leaves the machine.
In this modern era many people forget that typewriters had a *huge* security hole. The ink ribbons they used, in the right hands, were practically a "tape backup" of everything typed at that typewriter.
A record of all keystrokes is stored on the mylar ink tape used in the Selectric. You need to incinerate the ink cartridge after use to keep things secure.
Unlike a computer, a typewriter isn't going to get a keylogger installed by clicking on a link that's on a piece of paper. They're also within a security group, so there's some decent security going on with them. They aren't just leaving them out in unlocked buildings all day.
Would you believe that Maxwell Smart (agent 86) figured that out years ago while working for Control. Not only computers but shoe phones pose a security risk. That's why we have Cell phone and not Shoe phones. The only way to have secure communications is to use the "Cone of Silence" when discussing anything of importance.
Is that what you just did? Because nobody sane will see an actual argument in your OP.
Whoosh @ u, n00bster.
Then what's the point of having the computer if all you're doing is printing reports with it?
You've never actually tried to type something on a typewriter have you? No one who has used both a word processor and a typewriter would possibly ask such a ridiculous question.
Oh really ? My argument is that software has gotten a reputation for being extremely insecure. And that means people will stop using computers for many critical tasks completely. Can't you see how this will affect employment of computer experts (for a lack of a better general term) ?
I bet it improves the error rate. I learned to type on electric typewriters. As PCs took over for word processing, my error rate has gotten terrible. On an electric typewriter, making one mistake is a pain in the butt to fix, even with the ones that have the built-in correction tape.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
... is always people. Even if is just by stupidity (like going to one of those meetings with a cellphone), but could be plain malice, double agents or blackmailed "safe" people (and with all the data of the world you have plenty of material to blackmail anyone).
And thats the most worrying thing about NSA and associates snooping, you are getting 5 millon extra vulnerabilities in everything that surrounds all your data.
WHAT?
rewriting history since 2109
I think it is right time to train pigeons.
Despite the fact HP could not avoid the "Ping Of Death",
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping_of_death
I can hear all the C and C++ developers tell me, my cat and the entire world that "good programmers can write secure C and C++ code". It appears all the operating system developers at HP, SUN, IBM and the like were simply shitty programmers. That's one explanation.
The other explanation is that C and C++ are horribly dangerous programming languages and should not be used, AS PEOPLE WILL OTHERWISE STOP USING COMPUTERS. That will affect all of us as in "NO MORE JOBS FOR DEVELOPERS AND OTHER IT FIDDLERS OF INSECURE CRAP ".
Here is my little attempt to improve Software Security:
http://sourceforge.net/p/sappeurcompiler/code-0/2/tree/trunk/
And if you still think C and C++ are a great idea, read this:
http://www.infoworld.com/d/security/in-his-own-words-confessions-of-cyber-warrior-222266
Since I'm a computer expert, I've decided to soup-up your post with bleeding-edge, World Wide Web 1.0 "Hyper-Link" technology. Now all you have to do is point your cursor (computer mouse*) at a "URL" and click the button (on the computer mouse) and Netscape Navigator will automatically go to the new web "page." Amazing!
* If you have a newer computer mouse, it might have more than one button... Check your owner's manual for which button to press.
joined by quantum entanglement and you can send messages across vast distances like they do in Fringe across universes.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Apparently it was funny 40 years ago.
Room 1. type document
Room 2. typed document is scanned and OCR is performed then a validation is performed, validated document is transferred to SD-card.
Room 3. SD-card read room, document is transferred from SD-card to FSO servers
Now all of the security cleared Duma members can read the document wherever they are in the world on their iPads or iPhones.
Than using a computer with no network connection?
I mean, you'd probably want to make sure it has no wifi, etc, but that could also be accomplished by putting it in a faraday cage of some sort.
Apparently it was funny 40 years ago.
Trust me it was.
Since when is "public safety" the root password to the Constitution?
Typing them on an Underwood won't make it any more secure, if the documents are scanned and emailed.
I think I'd go with a manual in that situation, since electromechanical typewriters and teletypes have their own problems.
There was a lot of shielding and filtering put into crypto systems that used teletypes to avoid leaking information out the power leads, or radiating it directly.
I recall there being tempest rated versions of electric typewriters to avoid this. But a manual typewriter is an easy way around it.
If the DOD can't find COBOL programmers to fix their accounting system, who'll still be able to install a key-logger in a electric typewriter?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Technology is just papering over the basic truism that the humans are the weakness in any security system.
It is in their very nature to be inquisitive about the unknown, hiding secrets is intrinsically difficult for humans, given their social behavior. The human mind is not a secure vault, it can be tricked or forced or otherwise convinced to reveal its secrets in a wide variety of ways.
All of the technology for secrecy is moot when people simply open up and communicate directly with each other.
For example the government spends unknown gazillions protecting secret information and a single person can unravel large portions of it by simply standing in front of a microphone and speaking some words.
a lot. At least for the time being, and at least within the current "security" context. A lot.
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
WHAT ?
rewriting history since 2109
From the BIOS, just disable all network chips. This act will give you a computer that can't be connected and it will be the same as a typewriter although much more versatile.
Not the only way! If the Cone Of Silence was broken, they also had the Cough Code.
(Oh Max, you're twice the agent 43 is)
Yeah, I was too lazy to add HTML HREF tags and hoped my arguments would be countered as opposed to my stylistic laziness.
And that means people will stop using computers for many critical tasks completely.
Citation needed.
Just fish the ribbon out of the trash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVzEB_CJLNY
Oflline computer is not safe. How do you there is no Chip (or more than one), that will brodcast radio fo your screen, you keystrokes, etc?
It's totally unsafe. The typewriter should be mechanical and printed on a homemade 3d printer from local materials [just in case of presence of nanologgers in plastic]
Or they could just use VMS. An operating system that doesn't allow for all the cutesy little built in back doors like Winblows, Linsux, or Eunuchs!
God damn, some things in life are just so easy, you know??
BTW, it shouldn't be that hard, since the USSR made its own version of VMS and plenty of VAXen clone hardware to boot. It's A LOT fuckin better then goofy ass typewriters
They really need to do more research. Listening to key boards to detect what's written was shown possible 8 years ago...
Ralf
The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.
-Bertrand Russel
The answer is no regarding whether an electric typewriter is secure, though it might be considered more secure in some regards. Electric appliances will reflect signal noise back into the AC supply grid and signature analysis can be peformed to trace and trap every letter struck. A simple non-electric typewriter energized by human muscle is far more secure, and yet handwriting is preferable -though what happens to the trashcan when the note is thrown away?