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Ask Slashdot: Enterprise Level Network Devices For Home Use?
First time accepted submitter osho741 writes "I was wondering if anyone has enterprise level networking devices set up at home? I seem to go through at least 1 wireless consumer grade router a year or so. I can never seem to find one that last very long under just normal use. I thought maybe I would have better luck throwing together a network using used enterprise equipment. Has anyone done this? What would you recommend for a network that maxes out at 30mbps downstream from the ISP and an internal network that should be able to stream 1080p movies to 3 or 4 devices from a media server? Any thoughts and or suggestions are welcome."
What has become of Slashdot? The horror.....
how many wireless access points are you planning to set up? Will you be chaining them?
Get a high end ASUS or Buffalo wireless router and put DD-WRT on it.
I have had the same issue.
Except for my workhorse WRT54G, which has been running continuously for 7+ years now (bar occasional power outage). I don't think it will ever die.
What do you consider "normal use"? Nailing them to a wall? Using them to shore up a levee?
Anyway, if your electronics are failing that fast and you aren't abusing them somehow, then they should be replaced under warranty.
I've tried it both ways ... cheap consumer-grade stuff ends up costing less over time. Used enterprise equipment is often over-priced and too often being sold because it already has issues. Granted, sometimes larger companies do an equipment refresh before things are broken, but that is happening less and less as the economy remains challenging.
I've taken to using Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT firmware. Save the config and the replacement is a breeze, though I haven't had to replace for about 2 years (so far ...). These can be found for around $50.00 and, in a small environment, they will do more than most of us need. We don't do the kind of media streaming you are talking about, but I've yet to find that the router was my bottleneck.
Do you toss it in the dishwasher when it gets dusty? How can you break so much stuff?
I still use two* WRT54G(L) routers with dd-wrt software (tomato is good as well), although they are aged. The oldest one has served us for 9 years now. Looks like 54g is enough for you.
* Actually had three, one of these died out of my own stupidity two weeks ago. I left it in the rain a few weeks ago and I powered it up too early. Cannot blame Linksys for it :) The other two are still going strong.
if the devices are not laptops / tablets
http://routerboard.com/RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN
Been using this one for almost a year, with no issues. Plenty of bells and whistles for the home business/power user.
Even the cheapest routers I have last much longer than a year. What are you doing to your routers that you kill one every year?
Buy a consumer-grade router, but use a UPS to ensure it receives clean power. Dirty power kills these things.
I seem to go through at least 1 wireless consumer grade router a year or so.
I've had this LinkSys WRT54G for a few years now and it's perfectly fine.
What is going on that you're going through so many routers?
What brands are you using?
It could be something else other than the equipment - like environment. Got a cat pissing on it? What?
I've had lots of luck with HP Procurve gear. We use a couple of J8986A (530) access points at work and they seem to be unbeatable. For a router, run a linux box. Can be as little as a raspberry pi with VLANs split up by an external switch.
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
Get a MikroTik router. They're often used by ISPs.
Its small business grade, I've used it for a few years. Works well. AP300. For out of the box sub $100 price range I don't think you can do better.
http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/ap300.html
This may not be a popular opinion, but I'm a big fan of Apple Airport gear. They generally support the latest/fastest standards quite quickly, are easy to configure, have built-in PSUs rather than wall warts, and I've generally found their range to be better than average for consumer WiFi kit. Other than that latest models (which look ridiculous) they're generally neat and look OK in the living room. I've had one Airport Express die on me after 2 years of use, and that was already second hand when I bought it and spent its life behind a pile of hot hifi gear as an Airtunes sink.
I have been using an Alix 2D13 mainboard together with pfsense for the past two years. Before that I had a Draytek Vigor 2820 running for 4 years. Replaced it with pfsense because of the lacking IPv6 support. If your electronics die so fast I suggest that you invest in a small uninterruptable power supply. Not for protecting against power loss but brown-out and spikes.
Try search for mercury mw4530r I also made review on that, guys around openwrt knows it well, lot of spare RAM (128M) and from buychina they can give you double ROM for $40 whole router. I'm already orderd two of them, one with heatsinks :D
Old PC + Vyatta Community Edition. ClearOS, Or many other open source routers.
FreeNAS or OpenFiler for SAN duties
WRT54G or newer device that can run full DD-WRT for an access point or router.
There is enterprise and enterprise, but netgear prosafe works for me - not the latest and greatest maybe, but I've always found they work for years - never seem to quit. I did a replacement on one unit (of about a dozen) after about 5 years and the UK warranty repacement service was great too.
Generic random modem in bridge mode going to a proper linux machine router.
Attach home network to second ethernet interface.
If you want wireless, use the linux machine as a wireless AP using a pci/e card of some description.
Consumer modems are shitty, the more you make them do the quicker they fail, as a pure modem they tend to last a fair bit longer and have less load applied.
Bonus is if/when the modem does die, the rest of the infrastructure still lives.
Ive had WRT's, E2000s and E3000's, Netgears, DLinks. Some last, some don't. Its all crap shot.
Im convinced the consumer routers are cheaply designed with poor thermal design, and power supplies, and buggy microcontrollers.
I personally still have a pair of E3000's, running DDWRT and a WDS network. About 4 years old, lasting but biweekly hardlock even with a nightly reboot scheduled in firmware to clear memory.
The last two places I setup with Apple Airports seem to run flawlessly. My Dads in particular, an extreme and an old 10 client express and a newer 50 client express to WDS his network across his sprawling house. Beening running for 6mo nonstop without a hicup. Set and forget. Its not been runninong enough to be definitive, but Apple seems to put more quality in their products than say Linksys. He'a got a 6 camera security DVR, and two TIVO systems streaming back and forth. Plus dozens of ipads and iphones when all the fam is visiting.
I've had the best luck with Buffalo so far. Linksys, D-Link, NetGear, even Cisco small business and NetGear business-class have been pathetic crap. My Buffalo router has not been in service over a year, so I cannot honestly speak to longevity. But I can speak to lack of extraordinarily lame firmware bugs ;-)
Yes, I know what you mean; my experience mirrored yours. After replacing routers every year, (including an expensive one I hoped would last longer) I bought the cheapest one on NewEgg, resigned to replacing it within a year. At 3 years and counting, I've never even had to power cycle it. Stay away from the blue ones; they're the worst.
I've been using consumer-grade wireless equipment in the enterprise. The key is that we flash routers with OpenWRT. We decided to do this after testing out some enterprise wireless gear from a couple of reputable companies, cracking open their equipment, and realizing it was basically identical to the consumer-grade gear. It's also nice having to worry a little less about the possibility of manufacturer's back-doors. Much lower price and the ability to have a nearly identical interface on a mix of equipment are big positives as well. A minus is that devices tend to keep a death-grip on the access-point they connect to first.
We must have 50 wireless access points (mostly Netgear, some ASUS, some Linksys) running for a couple of years and have had no issues whatsoever other than having one router lock up after a power bump.
What equipment are you using? Either it's junk or you have some sort of problem in your environment (dirty power, high ambient temperatures).
Why are you going through so many routers? Even cheap crappy routers should last for years/decades. I've been through two in twenty years despite the use of aftermarket firmwares, VPN, server hosting and more... In fact, the only reason that I replaced the first one was to increase system memory and add a radio frequency and speed. Resolve whatever is causing the need for your excessive replacements.
To answer your question, I do use enterprise grade equipment on my home network as well. Switches, routers, VPN concentrators have come and gone. They are usually temporary for projects or lab setups and they usually go away. They all work fine, but they have a few major issues that don't lend well to residential use.
1. Noise. They are usually made for server rooms/data centers. They have tiny high speed fans that are excessively loud, especially for home use.
2. Heat. They generate a lot of heat that has to be managed.
3. Space. They are usually 19 inch rack mountable and require a lot of space. this is especially true when they have discreet feature sets thereby requiring multiple boxes that would normally be handled by a single consumer device.
Presently, my home has the following permanent gear:
1. Enterprise WiFi access points in the ceiling to improve WiFi coverage. There's more square footage than a single AP can cover.
2. There is a low grade fanless "enterprise" switch at the network core for port density and port mirroring for troubleshooting and experimentation.
3. A 6 year old Cisco/Linksys WiFi router running DD-WRT at the perimeter providing 30Mbps internet access and VPN services.
4. 14 permanent wired and wireless network nodes(computers/tablets/NAS etc.)
Use Ubiquity gear, saves you a lot of headaches and is very affordable
I bought this AP and couldn't be happier
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833168107
It's dual-band, supports MIMO and has a very high signal strength. On my Surface Pro I can push 300mbps over 802.11n.
That's nuts. Nobody hits that many clinkers in a row.
Get yourself a good consumer-grade router and a surge protector, my good Sir/Ma'am/Fido.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I have been extremely tempted to buy Check Point's latest all in one security appliance... they no longer use SofaWare as their embedded OS on their smaller appliances, it's a scaled down GAIA (the next evolution of Check Point's SPLAT for those who do Check Point stuff). It's pretty nuts all the things they pack into one little box... 10 1 gig ports, and 802.11 b/g/n
"All 600 Appliances come standard with 10 x 1Gbps Ethernet ports. For added flexibility and convenience, the wireless version of the 600 Appliance includes a WiFi access point (802.11b/g/n) that supports WEP, WPA and WPA2 authentication as well as secured guest access capabilities. The optional integrated ADSL modem eliminates the need for a separate external ADSL modem. Additionally, the included USB and PCI Express card slots allow an administrator to plug in a compatible third party 3G modem, providing an additional WAN connectivity for a redundant Internet link for maximum reliability."
http://www.checkpoint.com/products/600-appliances/index.html
Looks like they're about $400 on a random site I googled. Really tempting... I've been thinking about doing the same thing (plus REAL web filtering built-in, for my daughter).
Here's to the crazy ones
i dont know what you mean by a "router".
if you mean a device with a firewall (WANLAN), some ethernet ports and maybe a wifi radio,
then i strongly recommend to buy every part SEPARATELY.
so here is a recommended parts list:
1 netgear ADSL modem/router (with linux inside). this will translate the two-wire ADSL to 4-pair ethernet. not needed if you have cable.
1 x super micro X9SBAA-F board (atom S1260, 2 x intel gigabit, max. 8 GB RAM, 4x SATA3 (6Gb), 2 x usb3.0) @ 10 watts?
1 x (extra) pci-express intel gigabit (*)
1x some D-Link gigabit greenline switch (8 ports@12watt?)
1 x TP-Link TL-WR702N WiFi N ( as access point @1watt)
1 x some storage: recommend 1 quick operating system SSD. media can be stored on 2 TB external usb3.0 drives @20watt?
for software: download VMWARE ESXi (free) install as bare metal hypervisor. ... install whatever you feel like. pfSense, trafficCop, monowall, some linxu distro as a virtual machine. .. install some linux (text based) distro with NFS, SAMBA or that NAS linux distro with XFS ... (pass-thru of usb3.0 disks is possible in ESXi).
for firewall
for media server
the AccessPoint can just hang off the gigabit port.
this should be reasonably "hard"....etc. etc. have fun.
(*) total 3 gigabit ports is better then two : D. the atom S1260 should have enough legs internal for that (no gobbel-gobbel pcie-bus GPU).
Take a look at why and how you're going through consumer grade equipment so quickly. Are you using it in a hot/dusty or otherwise detrimental environment? If so, buying expensive "enterprise" equipment is wasting your money. Unless you've had a rash of bad luck, there's no reason for so many failures.
If the submitters gear is really breaking after an average of one year in continuous operation, he/she is doing something very, very wrong wrt. environmental conditions.
I have had all of two routers for my home DSL + LAN over the course of 7 years or so. The first was a cheap netgear Ii think!) which lasted 5 years, and now I've got a Linksys WRT54GL running Tomato going on its third year without any trouble. I do a fair bit of tech-support for family and friends, and I can't recall ever hearing about a home router not lasting at least 3-4 years..
Conclusion: The submitter probably lives somewhere where it gets very hot and / or humid (like Florida), and / or has his router stuffed in a small unventilated space like a cabinet, and / or has a shitty local power grid. Do something about the environment that your gear lives in, and it'll definitely last more than a year!
Take a ALIX board or old X86 machine. Throw in a few gigabit cards, install debian on it and enable natting, dhcp and ip forwarding... You won't need to upgrade "every year"
I run a pix 515e with a 3550 poe switch and an AP-1131. Works great. Of course you have to know how to configure it all...
I had similar needs about a year ago, including the fact that I was going back into network engineering after some years out of that field, so I wanted a flexible yet powerful setup in my home with focus on speed, security and flexibility make changes.
In order to achieve flexibility, I wanted as many components as possible to be in software. I already had 2 large diskless ESX servers connected to a QNAP TS-659 Pro II over NFS and iSCSI, so I updated my physical switch to a Cisco SG-300 20 and I setup link aggregation among all components effectively doubling the speed. The next step was to create purpose-specific VLANs. VoIP, home network, guest network and home entertainment systems are all in separate VLANs. Guest and home networks each have 2 Apple Airport devices setup as access points (not as gateways). Everything else is hard wired.
The main router and firewall is a purpose built Linux VM where I get to control everything in software. The cable modem from Comcast is plugged into the Cisco switch where it goes into its own VLAN directly to the gateway VM.
The setup has been up for a year. Minor updates have been applied to each component with very little disruption. I'm now starting to experiment with Nicira controllers for virtual networking within this environment so all future testing will remain in the software realm.
The continuous power recommendation above is probably your best bet.
Enterprise level gear is good stuff, but it can fail as well, part of what makes it enterprise is the service agreements and rapid replacement you can get on them. Really for a small network that would be a waste of money.
Would you buy a tractor-trailer rig to get stuff from a lumber yard occasionally when a pickup truck would suffice? Just keep said pickup truck well maintained and it should be fulfill your needs and be less expensive than the corporate solution.
I realize that was kind of a stretch but hopefully it helps to illustrate the point.
get a mikrotik routerboard and a ubiqiuty bulletM2 .
Put a 8db omni on the the bullet, set it as an ap and turn the power way down-- 7 or 8 works for me-- 2500 sq foot two story farm house with plaster and lathe walls and learn how to program the mikrotik.
I am partial to the rb2011 5 gig e ports and 5 10/100 ports.
My setup works great,
disclaimer- I work for a Wireless ISP and we only use mikrotik and ubiquity hardware--
This may not be a popular opinion, but I'm a big fan of Apple Airport gear. They generally support the latest/fastest standards quite quickly, are easy to configure, have built-in PSUs rather than wall warts, and I've generally found their range to be better than average for consumer WiFi kit. Other than that latest models (which look ridiculous) they're generally neat and look OK in the living room. I've had one Airport Express die on me after 2 years of use, and that was already second hand when I bought it and spent its life behind a pile of hot hifi gear as an Airtunes sink.
If you want to experiment with IPv6, the the Airport line isn't a good idea as there are standards/mechanisms that the firmware does not support. It has some IPv6 functionality, but things like DHCPv6-PD aren't present. I speak as a generally content AirPort Time Capsule owner.
I use the TC as an easy way to have a centralized Time Machine backups. Certainly other NAS devices could do the same thing, but it's a minimal of hassle (and noise and power) this way. If I was looking for a straight router, I'd probably go with an Asus (N66 or AC66).
Cisco 800 series routers do a great job. Used on ebay for as little as $50. I use an 871 but for most an 851 would do just as well. Very stable with some having over a year of up time. For wireless look at 1200 series AP's. Dual band versions like the 1231AG go for as little as $30 on ebay. Tolerate temps as high as 122 deg F so you can even put them in attics.
I would rather have a used BMW than a new KIA any day. Besides most pure electronics don't wear out the way machanical things do. My old Apple II still works fine, as does my Icom 745 HF rig from the mid 80's.
Streaming 3-4 1080P videos? How about get off the couch and try spending some time in the real world?
Or are those just ridiculously expensive?
All I'm interested in is a simple home router that would just keep on working. Somehow that wouldn't seem to be too much to ask.
I've always run with Cisco gear at work, so I figured, why not run with Cisco gear at home? Price is only a concern if you're buying new, and even when most people buy new, they don't buy at list price - they find a gold-certified reseller who can offer them up to 60% off Cisco list prices. Me? I bought most of my kit off eBay.
My own current setup is:
1x Cisco 1841 router with EHWIC-1ADSL for my broadband connection (this card supports ADSL2+)
1x Cisco Aironet AIR-AP1231G-E-K9 for wireless
1x Cisco Catalyst WS-C2940-8TT-S for a switch
The router was £60 off eBay. The WIC was £40 off eBay.
The switch was £40 off eBay. Sure, it's only a 100 Mbit/sec switch, but my internet connection is only around 10 Mbit/sec downstream. Works for me.
The wireless AP was £50 in a clearance sale from PCW Business - it was brand new in box.
If I'd bought an 1801, it'd have had an ADSL2+ interface built-in, but I wanted a router with a couple of WIC slots.
Total - £190. This ticks all the price boxes for me.
In terms of reliability - I've had the AP for a few years now and it's fine; the switch and router were more recent, and haven't let me down either. I've used all of these device types professionally for years (including in dirty warehouses, offshore oil platforms, and in Portakabins running off diesel generators), and have never had one fail yet, so I don't expect one to at home.
The 1841 isn't fanless, so it does make a small amount of noise, but it's not too bad (less noise than my peronal gaming desktop PC, but more noise than my Dell work laptop). It lives in my hallway next to the phone jack, so the noise doesn't annoy anyone. The 2940 switch and 1231 AP are fanless and run silently.
For server stuff, I've got a Raspberry Pi running Samba4 (for Active Directory), Cacti and Observium (for SNMP polling / graphing my Cisco kit), rsyslogd (for syslogging) and am currently pulling my hair out trying to get Horde Webmail to integrate authentication with LDAP. I also want to get a TACACS/RADIUS setup going.
He's Jesus, for Christ's sake.
If you have some entry-level DIY skills, use a modest router and swap out the larger capacitors with some high-quality ones from digikey or wherever.
Cost... maybe $30 plus a few hours time?
Consumer-grade means 'good enough' under ideal conditions, so most of the stock components are probably mass-produced chinese junk. Caps just happen to be a common failure point.
I would highly recommend getting one device that does the job really well. However before I make any recommendations I can agree with those suggesting Cisco 8xx series devices if you want an all in one solution.
Now if you are willing to go for one device that does the job well,
Wireless:
http://www.ubnt.com/unifi
The n version will cost around £50 and works really well.
Routing:
http://routerboard.com/
A small one will be cheap and has all the features of any enterprise level device. I have issues with this due to lack of OSS support however if that is not a problem for you I can recommend them.
DSL:
http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/vigor120.html
If you have DSL I can highly recommend one of these devices. Again fits with the one device, one job and works really well. I am very far away from my exchange and this device in in my loft which is quite hot right now and works great.
All of this should be under £150 which is what you could end up paying for a reasonable home Netgear and if something breaks or needs upgraded you can replace just that part.
Any model of router that has enough RAM and ROM and architecture supported by OpenWRT. It does NOT mean that you will really use OpenWRT but it means that you have at least one alternative firmware and the router is NOT a cheap [Nomina sunt Odiosa] box with minimal functions.
Then, you may experiment with heatsinks and add a ceramic cap in parallel with every electrolytic cap inside if you wish, replace a cheap [Nomina sunt Odiosa] power source with UPS and do what you want.
If your box is a supermegaextraprofessional router but it does NOT support OpenWRT then sometime you will experience some bug and will be unable to distinguish it from a hardware error since you have no alternative firmware. I personally had a yearlong dispute with ISP and D-Link before I got a terribly bad modem. It was old, buggy, it required a heatsink mod - but it had OpenWRT support. Then, all the bugs were successfully caught. I use it now.
30mbps downstream from the ISP and an internal network that should be able to stream 1080p movies to 3 or 4 devices from a media server?
Most enterprises implement a dual product solution. They install a dedicated router and a wireless access point. So get ready to spend $500+ on your solution. The linksys/netgear/asus products are meant to be all in one devices.
If you're looking for an all in one router then look at the Cisco 800 series routers. However, most of the models provide features you do not need like hardware based VPN or QoS, features you most likely do not need for providing you family with access to hulu/youtube etc..
However, I've got an Asus RT-A66U (or Best Buy's name: RT-A66R, same router different name). Easily handles 50Mb down and has 4 GigE ports for LAN traffic. Great range and decent price. Sure the top gets warm/hot but that's because it uses the top metal cover as a large heat sink. I don't put other gear on top of it nor hold it, so it's not a problem. Has solid reviews on Newegg as well.
If you're breaking so many devices you might want to figure out why you're breaking them. Dirty power? Dirty location? (Got a cat/dog?). Don't say "I'm downloading too much..." There's people out there with ancient linksys W54GL's out there and it's not like those were made with "Enterprise Grade Components"
I have been using open-mesh routers for years. http://www.open-mesh.com/ They are reliable, self-organizing and I can get at least 10 Mbps through one with Speedtest.net.
that what i use, 1 device, no mess no fuss bridged to my cable providers modem.
rock solid wifi, rock solid security and does everything i need and more.
the only downside is price ...but they are worth itl
And hobbyist gear that no normal person could be arsed to deal with.
Yes enterprise gear can last a long time, but at the same time its also finicky as hell particularly with power enterprise gear expects to live a pampered life in most cases i've found enterprise gear in the home environment to have mixed results. at least get a few good UPSs if you go this route.
Okay, there are options besides "consumer" and "enterprise." There are network devices for small offices and medium businesses. You don't need a Cisco 6900-series chassis to be more reliable than a dogshit consumer router. Cisco is a bit more filled-out in this range (I run some of this class of gear at home myself, and am happy). I have a Gig-E backbone and use a business-class WAP for wireless. It's not a wifi router mind you...no NAT, no switchports, no WPS. And I like it that way, because it allows me to have a flat network at home, gets rid of WPS and its security vulnerabilities, and it just plain works. My firewall is a Cisco ASA 5505 with a VPN license, and that, too, just plain works great.
I'm deliberately omitting hardware specifications and model numbers for the most part, for a good reason. What I have is for myself, and my requirements. What the OP needs is for them to decide. And that's where he/she should start...with requirements. I wanted Gig at the wire level, and 802.11n for wireless with fairly tight security. I wanted a solid VPN at my edge that would be able to leverage the VPN client on my work computer. I wanted a flat network for primary, trusted systems so that my Apple TV could see iTunes on my desktop, and printing from the MacBook would be simple. And my home network design reflects all of this. The OP might have different needs...so they need to figure out what those needs are, and then find the devices that fit them.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
In my case, I have a couple Linksys E3000's, sporting 802.11n and Gigabit Ethernet. They're both flashed with Tomato USB by Shibby. This is rather similar to the suggestion to get a good router and install DD-WRT.
Essentially, you want a decent router, maybe high end home to small business grade, and flashable with a firmware that's known to be able to handle loads well, like Tomato or DD-WRT. You might also have success with stock firmware, but I've found custom ones always outperform them by a large margin.
For example, the one router currently has an uptime of 136 days or so, the other 49 days or so, both without reboot. This is with plenty of P2P traffic, reconfigurations, LAN streaming of high def material, and FTP's across the LAN. I don't know many stock configurations that can handle that kind of thing for that long.
I also had issues regarding consumer grade routers (largely that they liked to slow down and die and crash horrifically), so I took a slightly different approach.
I'm using a small Mini-ITX server, using an Intel D525, 4GB of memory, and a 60GB SSD for ClearOS / Squid Proxy (does wonders for WoW Updates, actually...)
That handles all outbound traffic. That's hooked up to a nice 16-port gigabit switch, and I run cables for as many things as I possibly can. There's about 30 different wifi signals I can hit right now, so anything sent is going to be slow as hell, provided that it gets anywhere. Cat6 cables run to everything.
For those few things that have no ethernet ports, I use an Apple Airport Express-N thingy to host my wifi. I've been using one for about 2 years now in this way, and have had no issues. I have two Apple TVs, both wired into the network. iTunes on my old Mac Mini is pointed at my ZFS file server, and everything works very well.
I use Ubiquiti gear at home: their UniFi Pro access point and their EdgeRouter Lite (based on Vyatta) as my router. You can't go wrong.
If I had not just purchased a WNR3500v2 to run DD-WRT/Tomato, I would have purchased the following:
http://routerboard.com/RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN
I've been using a Dlink 601 for over a year. I have it in an UPS. Biggest issue is surge when you turn on microwave, A/C cycles on, etc. If you can run ethernet, it really is not that hard. Wireless should be only for guests. Wireless is great for neighbors.
The OP is probably blocking their air vents or placing them in closets where they're overheating, or on top of cable boxes/DVRs (which are like ovens.)
Please help metamoderate.
For lots of the various gadgets I own, whenever I visit related forums, there are posts about how these gadgets "always break". Which I find interesting, because I almost never break anything I own, including those products. Yes, stuff may break, even under normal use. But when it happens too often, there is some other factor involved. Normally this would be due to careless use, so a user problem. If you feel that cannot be it, because you are not somehow physically abusing your gear ... then something else is going on, e.g. room conditions, power input, someone is messing with your stuff, violent sleepwalking.
Let's say there is a 1% chance you get a faulty piece of equipment which breaks within a year. The chance that happens e.g. 4 times in a row is pretty slim, i.e. 0.01^4. So either you have simply lost the lottery, or you are looking for the wrong type of solution.
Take a look at the 802.11 a/b/g/n/ac solution from Ubiquiti Networks www.ubnt.com They have excellent Access Points that start at prices less than $100 (their "Pro" series are about $200). The excellent thing about this company is that the equipment is affordably priced but the real value is that their management software/firmwares are absolutely no cost. With enterprise APs you always have recurring "software maintenance" costs. I have this in my home and it works far better than the Cisco/Linksys kit that it replaced. One more neat thing is that it is powered by PoE (power injector is included in the price) so there is only the LAN cable that attaches making it viable for ceiling mounts (with the included ceiling mounting hardware).
Mark 2012 R2
you are killing a router once a year under normal use? my god man blow the dust off of it once in a while and unbury it from behind the stack of shit. My old router lasted 6 years and the only reason I got rid of it is because my internet service increased to the point where it became a bottleneck. My parent still have their linksys from 2004 and this yuts cant keep one going for a year?
I'm running a Cisco 887 as a router, firewall, WLAN AP and ADSL modem. It takes some knowledge to configure it, but then it's solid as a rock. Current uptime is 49 weeks, which is when I last reorganized the power cables. You can find the earlier 877 model 2nd hand for a reasonable price. They only have FastEthernet ports though, so you'll probably want a GigabitEthernet switch also. ProCurve 1800-8G is a solid choice there.
a high-end netgear router and it works great and I use extensively for mobile, PCs and laptops. I also have 5GHz as well as 2.4 Ghz setups and anyways, it's been working like a charm for 2 yrs solid.
You need three things:
* Ubiquiti for wireless
* pfSense on a low-end Celeron or similar (or even an atom) - it will out-perform an ASA 550x by a great distance.
* UPS
You can get by on the above for about $500. I know quite a few medium sized organizations which run the above configuration, some with some arguably complex routing and bandwidth requirements.
I have been using a Mikrotik router (RB2011UAS-RM) for the past year (http://mikrotik.com). They have a device that is also wireless but I haven't tried that one. I may pick it up next year to play with it. It is full of features but can be a bit daunting to setup.
Ditch the provided power supply and use a precision supply. Secondly, though shalt patch the firmware on a regular basis. It's how I got my WRT54G. It was a clients and they just bought a new one and gave me this one. My WAP54G died so I downloaded the latest firmware for the WRT54G and it worked flawlessly, has been doing so for years.
I consider it a serious question. Consumer routers are utter garbage, and frequently become unstable, crash, etc. I have also been through several in the last year. I highly recommend the Assus RT66U (something like that). The software UI is solid and the device hasn't crashed once. Best network purchase ever.
Honestly, if you're talking about real Cisco boxes, and the like, no. You probably don't need that.
Still, it might not hurt to step up to the prosumer level devices.
I got sick of the consumer crap treadmill. I have everything on UPS with a monster surge suppression unit, yet I had units of all kinds dying, or turning out to be useless. Finally, I had two $179 "consumer" routers die on me back to back in the middle of patching (shipping settings were SEVERELY broken and needed to be patched to be usable).
I went out and bought a 24 port switch and Router from Netgear's ProSafe line. All gigabit. All good. Blue metal boxes!
Anyhow, it's now been five years. And I haven't had to do a damn thing to my network other than an occasional bit of preventative maintenance (reboots, firmware updates, etc).
It's always POSSIBLE that some of the higher end consumer stuff has gotten better. But, as my stuff works great, I have had exactly zero incentive to go and take a look.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
What's killing them? FRICTION!
See, he's a hard core gamer, which is also why he buys the faster red ethernet cables instead of the slower blue ones! This causes lots of friction, since he can have a higher packet load through the router, and the poor electronics just get worn out, since he plays about nine hours a day.
He also mounts his routers in the back top shelf of the closets, so that the packets get a gravity assist getting to his computer. Apparently it takes about 1.8ms off his ping time, which is why he consistently beats his friend Charlie in Unreal Tournament.
PS: We all know friction has to be the true answer, since they charge for GB instead of charging for the pipe size; everyone knows this is because routers with packets transiting them have more wear and tear than those same routers using the same amount of power, but not transiting as many packets. It's just common sense!
Enterprise class stuff will work but:
They cost a lot more
Have higher power draws
Can be damn noisy ( Fans )
I second the Ups comment. Have been running a trio of Linksys flavors with DD-Wrt for many years now with no issues at all. The one thing in common is they all are on a small UPS unit.
Hello,
I have been running both consumer grade and enterprise networking gear in a enterprise environment for about 10 years now.
I can tell you the main thing that kills these routers is overheating. I've gone through dozens of home routers and have found that the ones with at least a 1ghz cpu perform much better. I am currently using a Linksys EA4200 V2 and it has been rock solid with thousands of connections.
I also run a few of the Cisco ASA 5540 which can be had on ebay for around $1000. They are a PITA to manage, same goes for all the other enterprise gear.
Take a look at the dd-wrt project as well, if your router is supported that might be just what your looking for.
As others have mentioned, the sweet spot is competitors for the corporate space, just a few notches below Cisco. HP, Ubiquity, Ruckus, they put out enterprise grade hardware that is almost affordable used.
Prosumer gear just isn't built to last, it's built to maximize feature lists while minimizing cost. Even if many of you haven't had your networking gear go down on you at your home, you are the lucky ones. I have had a litany of routers and firmwares and I have watched a few small-medium businesses try to scale up on prosumer gear. Hobbyists don't have every router hardware revision plugged into a test rig with complex networking simulations for unit tests, it's all guess-and-pray. Maybe this will change as more enterprises embracing/fund open-source networking hardware and software development. Until then, being on the cutting edge while not spending a lot of money is a recipe for headaches.
If you can't afford a $300 router, then use your ISP's modem as your main router and set everything else up as a pass-through or AP. I've tried to use DD-WRT et al. but they just don't have the resources to do the automated testing required for a high-quality product. These are modems that the ISP's purchase by the million and they have dedicated QA teams trying to bring costs down. Let the modem handle the routing, it makes the network management simpler anyway.
Finally, when your end-point eventually falls over and it's out of warranty, buy a new one from Amazon et al. and swap out your router for the new one and send the busted electronics back for a refund : )
Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
You might want to invest in a newer router anyway.
The thing that limits the old GL's aside from their pathetic RAM and flash space is that they simply don't have enough CPU power. NAT work on the number of connections today's computers and applications require is a lot of work for that aged ~200 MHz CPU. While it speeds up web browsing of course, it's more noticeable when you do more things. As my friend put it when I talked him into upgrading his router from a WRT54G v8 to a $50 dual band TP-Link unit, "I was gaming on my XBox for about an hour, and I came upstairs to find out that my wife had been watching Hulu the entire time. I had no idea..."
They'd never been able to do that before without his game lagging constantly. It wasn't a bandwidth thing either. They have 6 Mb/s DSL.
I recommend this model for the features. It'll run DD-WRT---you might want that too to ensure you have CoDeL support---but the stock firmware works great and has most of the same features.
Here's a screenshot of DD-WRT's system status on the unit. I'm convinced that the version I'm running isn't quite stable.... hence the high load. It's also serving as an AP for me instead of doing NAT work. My NAT is done by a similarly-spec'ed device, a D-Link DIR-825, runs much better and costs about the same, but it only does 300Mbps on the 5 GHz interface. The D-Link might be a better candidate for DD-WRT if you're dead set on using it.
Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
Name tomato
Model Netgear WNR3500L/U/v2
Time Sun, 14 Jul 2013 14:18:32 -0600
Uptime 579 days, 13:44:21
CPU Load (1 / 5 / 15 mins) 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00
Total / Free Memory 60.53 MB / 52.68 MB (87.03%)
If your wireless gear is dying rapidly, then I suggest putting them being a good UPS. It sounds more like a power supply problem than anything else. APC sells excellent UPS's around the $200 range.
2 years ago I switched to routerboard switches (RB260GS), router (RB750) and a wireless routers (RB951). Have not any issues since. Whole house and separate workshop all gigabit to a commercial microwave Internet provider at 20Mbps up/down. No cable service where I live. :( Setup in not consumer friendly but since this is on slash dot, you shouldn't have any problems setting up. Added bonus, the equipment is inexpensive.
Use whatever as an 'access' device, and stick something stronger between the 'net and the home LAN.
Could've bought a Cisco (actually there are Cisco routers rotting here) but a linux box between the router and the house LAN is easier and more secure.
All your ghosts are just false positives.
I use my cable company's cable modem that has 802.11 N, Sophos UTM (free and on a low end AMD mid tower that cost about $200), and Cisco SMB switches that come with a lifetime warranty. Granted, this places wireless outside my firewall and IDS but that's OK because I have multiple ways to work around any issues that may arise. For example, I can remote print to my printers via Google, HP or via dynamic DNS (through a VPN). Here's the URLs: Sophos UTM: http://www.sophos.com/en-us/products/free-tools/sophos-utm-home-edition.aspx Cisco SMB Switches with lifetime warranty: http://www.cisco.com/cisco/web/solutions/small_business/products/routers_switches/100_series_switches/index.html
they're just running on ARM or MIPS, not x86
overall i used to have the same problem back in the day. heavy internet use would lock up my old Linksys router about every other day and had to manually power cycle it to clear it up. I ended up replacing it with a PC running a software firewall (originally OpenBSD running pf, now pfSense). all my wireless access points are basic Linksys units but they are running as stripped down as possible. they are really only wireless bridges and don't host any connections anymore. ALL services are handled by my pfSense firewall (DHCP, DNS forwarding, NAT rules, etc.) and I have had zero network lockups or burnouts since.
I have upgraded my PC to a beefed up desktop running VMware ESX hosting the pfSense firewall and now also a FreeNAS file server and an XP session to run my print server as well as my network media streaming for the house. I can easily saturate my 30 Mbit cable connection and still idle the server.. I should not see issues until i am trying to push 500+ Mbit, which wont be for a while.
I've got bits and bobs. My main switch is a Nortel 380T - 24 port GigE with all the bells and whistles for vlans, monitor/span port, mac filtering etc - I suspect that it doesn't support Jumbo frames but who cares? Ebay sourced. Solid as a rock for the last 2 years or more and if you need switch port density, well recommended when they turn up on the cheap.
Router wise, I've tried several over the years. I owned a Draytek 2830 which was excellent until it failed - or rather just be came unreliable and it favours it's DSL port over the Ethernet port for the second WAN interface (which can be worked around but not via the GUI). Have replaced it with a TP-LINK TL-ER5120 and I've been extremely happy with it so far, with the notable exception of not supporting SNMP for bandwidth monitoring. I did consider returning it, but it ticked all my other boxes at a very competitive price. I'd actually been trying to get a Vyatta virtual router up and running but something wasn't right and I needed a reliable connection more than a new project - looked very promising though.
I've two services at home, a 120Mb cable connection from Virgin Media and a 12Mb DSL service. I know for a fact that a used Cisco 2621 (dual Fast Ethernet) cannot sustain line rate NAT- just doesn't have the oomph.
I have been using Procurve switches and access points for a few years with a pfsense firewall. I grew tired of replacing consumer routers every year or so.
These are used for access points and have crazy power and options.
You're doing something wrong if you got though 1 per year. I've only had one router die on me in the past 13 years. And that was after about 7 years. My WRT-54G lasted for about 7 years with no problems until it died. But at that point I wanted to replace it with an N device anyway. Been using a WRT160N ever since.
Additionally we purchase about 9 WRT-54Gs for work in 2004. They were just now being to have issues when we replaced them in the fall of 2012. But the issue they had were with load due to a massive influx of iPads, not because of hardware failure. And the few we had that began having software issues, worked perfectly after replacing the default firmware with DD-WRT.
Keep looking, the problem isn't your consumer grade routers.
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned them yet, but they make damn good gear and very reasonable prices.
There is more of a learning curve to set them up but you can get a router (not just NAT, but with OSPF,BGP, RIP,etc) starting around $40.
I've gone through quite a bit of business grade IT gear, and their interface is still one of my favorites.
I had spent a solid 2-3 days trying to get a port mirroring into a vlan working correctly with a couple of netgear/hp/ciscoSMB switches, but it took me less than 5 minutes with a RB250G (~$40). Define virtual interface, in, out and done.
http://routerboard.com/RB951-2n
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Get yourself an Juniper SRX220 Firewall and Cisco Aironet ap1142n Access Point.
You'll have a real rocksolid device and OS combination, option of dual upstream, integrated modem through mPIM, 3G backup option etc.
The Cisco AP is real enterprise-level and can be powered through PoE of the SRX and even has active attack mitigation features.
That setup won't be cheap but it is by far the most capable, stable and future-proof option i could recommend
A few years ago, I was looking for a new access point for home. I decided to go with a Cisco 1252AP. Worth every penny.
I use a cheap (about U.S.$ 1000) 12-port Juniper switch at home for wiring up all rooms to the Internet. Its fairly robust and has all the features you want, except support for PPOA or PPOE.
You did not mention if you used UPS power supplies to power your (at home) network hardware and computer(s).. If not, I would recommend investing in one or more good quality UPS power supply units. Connect network hardware and such to one UPS, and desktop computer, monitor, laptop to a 2nd UPS.
I've used Linksys SOHO grade routers and switches for 14-yrs and counting, and have yet to experience a hardware failure in less than 5-yrs. I contribute this success to the use of UPS power supplies; provides protection for brown-outs, power spikes, etc. My personal favorite product brand is APC, but there are others. A UPS provides clean and spike free AC power to attached devices. The UPS contributes to the longevity of those cheap wall-wart type power supplies.
I've picked up Cisco 7200 and 3600 routers for less than $250 with a couple of 100baseT interfaces that can route and basic firewall at wire speed. Even a 4700 with 2 100baseT interfaces can keep up (barely). Just make sure that you get the software image you need, as you have to pay to upgrade (or steal it).
I'm pretty 'meh' on Cisco switches. They command a premium, and really aren't superior. I'd never pick up a Cisco chassis switch for the house; too loud and too much power draw. The Cisco gigabit switches generally are wildly overpriced. Almost anybodies gig copper managed switch can handle the home load. That said, if you have access to fiber NICs (dirt cheap), GBICs and fiber cables, things like a C3550-12G, C4812G and C3508G are going for dirt and are solid switches.
Dell switches are a tremendous value, especially considering the feature set (VLANs, QoS, LAG/LACP, etc). They upgrade the lines quickly (creating turnover on the secondary market), update even old ones and the software updates are free.
Nortel BayStack switches go for basically pin money because Nortel is no more and enterprise users are dumping them as fast as they can. They're every bit as good as the equivalent Cisco. Avoid the Nortel firewall/VPN gear; you really need to be able to get software updates on those, and you won't.
There's a vast amount of enterprise WLAN gear being dumped for pennies because most everyone is upgrading to 802.11n. I see keeping my 11a gear for years, as 54/108Mb is enough for almost everything an end-point needs short of 1080p streaming and 5GHz keeps you out of baby monitor and cordless phone hell. Just don't pick up anything that needs a controller to be useful.
P.S. - What everyone else said...get a UPS. Seriously.
P.P.S - Look at things like Vyatta and Linux/BSD based alternatives. Other than switches, I've pretty much ditched my enterprise options for these. I'm running them on retired, last generation, enterprise Dell servers. Loud, but rock solid.