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Ask Slashdot: Enterprise Level Network Devices For Home Use?

First time accepted submitter osho741 writes "I was wondering if anyone has enterprise level networking devices set up at home? I seem to go through at least 1 wireless consumer grade router a year or so. I can never seem to find one that last very long under just normal use. I thought maybe I would have better luck throwing together a network using used enterprise equipment. Has anyone done this? What would you recommend for a network that maxes out at 30mbps downstream from the ISP and an internal network that should be able to stream 1080p movies to 3 or 4 devices from a media server? Any thoughts and or suggestions are welcome."

162 of 241 comments (clear)

  1. Is this a serious question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What has become of Slashdot? The horror.....

  2. DD-WRT by donmontalvo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Get a high end ASUS or Buffalo wireless router and put DD-WRT on it.

    1. Re:DD-WRT by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      This is a good answer. Also, those devices have pretty stable stock firmware too, if you don't want to change it.

    2. Re:DD-WRT by mache · · Score: 2

      I agree, I don't know what is causing this person to have to replace his routers every year, but a high end Asus or Cisco Linksys router can support enterprise loads and functions with DD-WRT. I have had my system running for years with enterprise specific functions. I have also had obsolete WRT54G routers also with enterprise function running in public facilities with huge loads. I don't get the problem this person is having.

      -- Mache

    3. Re:DD-WRT by mrmeval · · Score: 1

      I got my Buffalo router before patent trolls banned it. Buffalo seems to have paid the 'rogeld and are still making them. I put DD-wrt on it. It's never quit on me.

      --
      I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
    4. Re:DD-WRT by Skapare · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have had several failures of Linksys routers in the RF hardware to the point they need to be right next to each other to communicate. The problem was not diagnosed any further since replacing them was less time and money. I got 2-3 years out of them, though, so maybe it's not that bad for $50 each. If I went with a $500 enterprise device, would I get 20-30 yours? Would I even want to (in 10 years it might be obsolete just because new stuff with new features I really want is available). I'm using Buffalo routers with factory defaced DD-WRT now, I might try to load a newer DD-WRT on one or more eventually,

      Why would I need to spend so much on enterprise CIsco equipment? I just buy spares now. I have 5 of those Buffalo routers with 2 in use. If hardware dies or the cable gets hit by lightning and the surge gets past the grounding and surge clamp, I just swap out, trash the dead one, and eventually order another spare.

      If things changed and I needed the features of enterprise devices at home, I'd get them (and I'd know what I needed when that happens). Until then, cheapness and spares win out.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    5. Re:DD-WRT by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you go Asus (I've had the n66u for about 6 months now), you might also consider the AsusWRT-Merlin firmware. Its QoS isn't quite as advanced as DD-WRT or Tomato, but I get higher throughput with it and I can do everything I need with it (dyndns with an unsupported provider, VPN, public/private netowrk, and such).

      I can't recommend the n66u highly enough...it's just fast and has enough memory CPU to actually do interesting things with it once you get a shell and start hacking. I do a lot of streaming, both over my 100mbps symmetric WAN and from my media servers in my house and have never had any problems. On a recent trip to Europe, I was even able to stream from services that do IP geolocation to restrict service to the US by VPNing into my home connection. Most routers/internet connections can't handle a simultaneous upload and download of an HD stream, but it worked great.

    6. Re:DD-WRT by egcagrac0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I've heard the common cause of that failure is a degraded power supply... the wall warts apparently stop putting out enough current at rated voltage, and the RF range drops to almost nothing.

      New wall wart often fixes it.

    7. Re:DD-WRT by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I ran a molex connector from the PC all this equipment sits on to the back of the computer. Now I plug my router / switch all into a common power rail from a computer PSU. Decent quality computer PSU > cheap shit wallwart and possibly more efficient too. Definitely more efficient on wall plugs.

    8. Re:DD-WRT by antdude · · Score: 1

      How hot can these routers handle? My upstair room can go about 90F degrees during the heat waves. :(

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    9. Re:DD-WRT by axx · · Score: 1

      OpenWRT, what you want is OpenWRT.

      I've just switched after something like 6 or 7 years of pretty painless DD-WRT, and OpenWRT is just better.
      Organised configuration files, sensical zoning for the firewalls, a real package manager, a real filesystem rather than overuse of NVRAM.
      It feels like something that's been designed rather than hacked together.

      Also, OpenWRT used to be harder to configure, but with the LUCI webinterface it really isn't that different from DD-WRT now.

      Lastly, the project is actually free, run in an open manner and hasn't spiralled out of control with the lead developer obfuscating the web interface and some builds being ony available on the forums.

      --
      No wit here.
    10. Re:DD-WRT by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      For Pfsense, you need an embedded x86 router. You can't just put it on an old router. I would recommend purchasing an Alix kit for pfsense. You will never go back.

    11. Re:DD-WRT by jman.org · · Score: 1

      I concur on the ASUS (their RT-N66U is around $150, but plenty stable and strong, with three external antennas. It even has a micro-SD card which can be used for saving VPN logs or whatever (saving on the built-in flash). Of course popping the lid to install that voids your warranty, but I've installed a bunch of these things and have yet to have a problem.

      Have pretty much switched over to Tomato these days; the Shibby build is quite good. Only downside is I wish he'd move the "Apply" button to the top of the screen, but you can use your own custom CSS to override that.

    12. Re:DD-WRT by eyendall · · Score: 1

      I agree. My ASUS RT-N16/DD-WRT is on 24/7 and has been going strong for 3 years with absolutely no problems.

    13. Re:DD-WRT by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      A decent 12V switchmode supply (from a blown LCD monitor) is also useful for powering a bunch of consumer-grade equipment. I have a couple of 65W ones powering my AV stack (DVB decoder, DVS decoder, Router, Cordless phone base, etc etc etc and have measured 30W less consumption than when using wall warts - the average low power PSU has shockingly poor efficiency AND regulation.

  3. WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What do you consider "normal use"? Nailing them to a wall? Using them to shore up a levee?

    Anyway, if your electronics are failing that fast and you aren't abusing them somehow, then they should be replaced under warranty.

  4. Go for cheap by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've tried it both ways ... cheap consumer-grade stuff ends up costing less over time. Used enterprise equipment is often over-priced and too often being sold because it already has issues. Granted, sometimes larger companies do an equipment refresh before things are broken, but that is happening less and less as the economy remains challenging.

    I've taken to using Linksys WRT54GL with DD-WRT firmware. Save the config and the replacement is a breeze, though I haven't had to replace for about 2 years (so far ...). These can be found for around $50.00 and, in a small environment, they will do more than most of us need. We don't do the kind of media streaming you are talking about, but I've yet to find that the router was my bottleneck.

  5. Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do you toss it in the dishwasher when it gets dusty? How can you break so much stuff?

    1. Re:Huh? by marmoset · · Score: 1

      Cheap home routers tend to have crappy power supplies and inadequate cooling.

    2. Re:Huh? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Funny

      Do you toss it in the dishwasher when it gets dusty? How can you break so much stuff?

      Actually, that might just be the right solution. If his rack-sized enterprise network equipment won't fit into the dishwasher, he won't try to wash it. You know how it is with connectors - the best way of preventing people from screwing things up is not to make them physically compatible.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Huh? by julesh · · Score: 2

      Cheap home routers tend to have crappy power supplies and inadequate cooling.

      Still: I've gone through 3 consumer-grade routers over the last 10 years, and each time I've got a new one it's because the old one isn't up to the job, not because it's failed. They shouldn't need active cooling (they don't use more than about 2W in typical use), and the power supplies seem perfectly adequate for the task to me.

    4. Re: Huh? by IrquiM · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is always the bathtub...

      --
      This is blinging
    5. Re:Huh? by Christian+Smith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cheap home routers tend to have crappy power supplies and inadequate cooling.

      I've an old Asus EEE PC 701, augmented with a USB upstream ethernet, that does perfect service as a router with OpenWRT. Built in UPS (which I presume also conditions the power for the mainboard).

      Uptime: 612d 3h 48m 4s, though I'll power it down soon to swap the RAM with a machine more deserving of the 2GB installed in there currently.

      In summary, get a cheap old laptop/netbook, and configure it accordingly. A laptop with a broken screen can be had cheap as chips.

    6. Re:Huh? by sjames · · Score: 5, Informative

      Clearly you've never seen a vga connector after someone tried to cram it into a serial port...

    7. Re:Huh? by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No kidding. I've never had a router die, wireless or not. Ever. In over a decade of 24/7 use. Not one. Zero. I'm currently connected thru a WRT54GL that's been running in my late grandpa's garage since 2005. No climate control of any kind. Same with the old Motorola cablemodem it's connected to. Bought the modem for $10 at a thrift shop and it's still going strong. I've got an older WRT54GS that's only been shelved because the GL was already set up and running when I got the house.

      Maybe they make crappy routers these days and we old farts are unaware because we're still running our ancient Linksys gear from an earlier age.

    8. Re:Huh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Laugh all you want, but that's how I cleaned up my hardware. I'd remove the electronic bits from mice and keyboards, then tossed them in the washing machine with other softer stuff.

      Drying was a little harder, but the plastic had that nice worn feel about it afterwards, so I might have done it more than necessary.

    9. Re:Huh? by sensationull · · Score: 2

      Exactly this, the old stuff keep's going, the new stuff is junk. Dynalink made an epicly bad adsl2 modem which our isps were giving out. Burnt out one every three months with basic use, hooked up through ups and line surge protectors running at about 10mbits. The things were just that poorly put together with bga chips, inadequate cooling and memory. Got through four a year under warranty.

      In comparison I still have some old adsl gear that works, tops out at 8mb but at least it was designed not just badly copied by some clueless Chinese foundry somewhere for the lowest possible cost for the highest possible profit.

    10. Re:Huh? by dotancohen · · Score: 2

      Or a PS/2 connector that the user tried to force in by twisting motion instead of just looking at the end to determine which way to put it.

      I once watched in horror as a Post Office clerk did that to her keyboard (nice Cherry switches it looked like) while I was in line. She was forcing and twisting for a good ten seconds before I snapped and stopped her. The pins looked like my daughter's braided hair. I was able to straigten them out by sliding a mechanical pencil without the lead over each pin and carefully bend it back to place.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    11. Re:Huh? by evilviper · · Score: 2

      In summary, get a cheap old laptop/netbook, and configure it accordingly. A laptop with a broken screen can be had cheap as chips.

      Bad advice... You're wasting a LOT of power, and you're spending a lot more money, for a device with lesser capabilities.

      You not only need to buy the laptop, you're also buying USB ethernet adapters, and a separate network switch to connect to it, while home APs/routers have all that built-in.

      Just get something with a USB port that is compatible with DD-WRT or OpenWRT. I know an 8-port D-LINK DIR-632(a) has been available for $40 on Amazon for the past 6 months, which I'm sure ends up FAR cheaper than your solution, and will lower your power bill.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    12. Re:Huh? by atamido · · Score: 1

      Bad advice... You're wasting a LOT of power, and you're spending a lot more money, for a device with lesser capabilities.

      It's possible that GP has needs that aren't met by a cheap router. Maybe he does filtering, or operates a proxy, or transparent caching? Maybe he does fancy traffic analysis? Maybe he does complicated multi-level QoS? Maybe he has a landing page for open wireless that is separate from his encrypted wireless/LAN? Maybe he wants to be able to handle a large number of connection states that crashes lesser devices with not enough RAM? A least that's why I use a small netbook instead of one of the many cheap routers I've purchased over the years...

    13. Re:Huh? by Trogre · · Score: 1

      No, but I've seen the results of someone plugging in a USB-A connector upside down. What a horrible, horrible design.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    14. Re:Huh? by hobarrera · · Score: 1

      Way too much power usage. Unless you run something like a SIP server on something that actually requires so much hardware, you can shrink that a lot.

    15. Re:Huh? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      Maybe he does filtering, or operates a proxy, or transparent caching?

      Filtering is no problem. I was managing extremely large, very aggressive firewall rules on full 100Mbps connection with a 200MHz Pentium 2 processors, many years ago.

      Proxies don't require much CPU power at all, unless we're talking about man-in-the-middle SSL. And you can do all the caching you want if you add storage via the included USB port.

      Maybe he does fancy traffic analysis? Maybe he does complicated multi-level QoS?

      I would expect any decent home routers to be fast enough to do all that for slow, home internet connections. Having to use a USB-ethernet NIC probably adds a lot of overhead (assuming high speed internet) that could be avoided entirely with a proper device.

      Maybe he has a landing page for open wireless that is separate from his encrypted wireless/LAN?

      OpenWRT/DD-WRT should be easily able to handle this as well.

      Maybe he wants to be able to handle a large number of connection states that crashes lesser devices with not enough RAM? A least that's why I use a small netbook instead of one of the many cheap routers I've purchased over the years...

      You can shop around for devices with more RAM. You should be able to track a rather impressive number of connections with just 32MBs of RAM in common devices, so I seriously doubt you actually need to use a netbook.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    16. Re:Huh? by TheHonch · · Score: 1

      One of the users here managed to put a USB-A connector in the ethernet port, and when I worked in a shop there was one customer who put a PC133 in a more modern PC, but i think he used a hammer (no kidding)

    17. Re:Huh? by godefroi · · Score: 1

      Um, you know this equipment doesn't run on 110VAC, right? Undervolt doesn't apply until you get to levels so low that nothing else in your house is working.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    18. Re:Huh? by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      Exactly! It wouldn't of been brain surgery to form a detent on one side.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    19. Re:Huh? by atamido · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't want to do caching onto USB storage for most things, you'd want that data sitting in RAM.

    20. Re:Huh? by Christian+Smith · · Score: 1

      In summary, get a cheap old laptop/netbook, and configure it accordingly. A laptop with a broken screen can be had cheap as chips.

      Bad advice... You're wasting a LOT of power, and you're spending a lot more money, for a device with lesser capabilities.

      A lot of power? Hardly. A few watts, especially as the screen is never on these days. I've never measured the power draw, but it probably doesn't go above 10-15W, and that's not much more than newer routers that have to power those internal hubs.

      Any wasted power would be on the order of $10-$20 dollars a year? Big deal.

      You not only need to buy the laptop, you're also buying USB ethernet adapters, and a separate network switch to connect to it, while home APs/routers have all that built-in.

      And 99% (made up figure) of users don't use any of the internal switch ports. Most people connect to the interweb using wireless connections these days. And an Eee PC has a wireless port built in, with an ethernet port for the upstream modem connection. I have the USB ethernet connection to break out to a further wireless router, but I don't necessarily need it, and will retire it now I'm happy with the functioning of the AP functionality.

      Just get something with a USB port that is compatible with DD-WRT or OpenWRT. I know an 8-port D-LINK DIR-632(a) has been available for $40 on Amazon for the past 6 months, which I'm sure ends up FAR cheaper than your solution, and will lower your power bill.

      Perhaps, but then it has no built in UPS, and if you also use the machine as a NAS, a UPS comes in handy as well.

    21. Re:Huh? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't want to do caching onto USB storage for most things, you'd want that data sitting in RAM.

      There's no reason to cache to RAM instead of a fast USB thumb drive for a home user. USB2 will be considerably faster than most people's internet connection, and probably faster than some of their LAN connections, so you'll still see just as nice of a performance increase, and you've got virtually unlimited cache to work with as you see fit. Any caching proxy worth its salt supports disk caching as well (or at least utilizing SWAP as an extension of RAM).

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    22. Re:Huh? by atamido · · Score: 1

      As per the folks over at #squid, this is only true if the primary goal is to reduce data usage on an internet connection, and it would be part of a larger tiered storage methodology.

      In most use cases, organizations seem to be trying to reduce latency on small files. For example, caching all 200KB files to RAM would significantly improve browsing "snappiness" for a group of users on Facebook where there was a significant overlap in friends lists. Similarly for tiles on Google Maps, or other common sites. Storing those same files onto a typical USB thumb drive would likely decrease the performance. You can store an incredible amount of "small" files in 1GB.

      Larger files would be cached to disk, but as mentioned previously this is usually just done to reduce data usage. For example, a small ISP on a limited data pipe might perform aggressive caching of larger files. A large SSD can store a lot of YouTube videos, and as it's not uncommon for certain videos to surge in popularity, you can actually get some cache hits off of these, so it'd make sense to make the investments in hardware.

      But as pointed out previously, none of that is going to be particularly useful on an embedded device with 16-32MB of RAM. I haven't used the DIR-632, but I have used several other routers with WRT based firmwares, and they've been mostly good (I have seen instability that were likely hardware related). For most things I think they're great, but they are going to be CPU/RAM constrained for many larger tasks. When you try to QoS 10,000 Bittorrent connections at 50Mbps along with transparent caching of normal browsing traffic for several users, all on an underclocked ARM with 32MB of RAM, you're going to be disappointed.

    23. Re:Huh? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      As per the folks over at #squid, this is only true if the primary goal is to reduce data usage

      Source? It's true for disk cache because you're limited to random seek and read speeds, but shouldn't be for SSDs.

      Storing those same files onto a typical USB thumb drive would likely decrease the performance.

      Yes, but I'm not talking about any old POS thumb drive. If you want to use it for caching, you'd shop around for one of the extremely fast models that are available out there.

      all on an underclocked ARM with 32MB of RAM, you're going to be disappointed.

      Routers are overwhelmingly MIPS-based devices, not ARM, and benefiting from the much better performance that comes along with that.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
    24. Re:Huh? by atamido · · Score: 1

      Source? It's true for disk cache because you're limited to random seek and read speeds, but shouldn't be for SSDs.

      Just go and ask. I would have to post long and complicated chat logs which present criteria much more complicated than I mentioned.

      irc://chat.freenode.net/squid

      You should also read the FAQ to get an idea of the RAM limitation associated with a large cache.

      http://wiki.squid-cache.org/SquidFaq/SquidMemory

    25. Re:Huh? by evilviper · · Score: 1

      You should also read the FAQ to get an idea of the RAM limitation associated with a large cache.

      Except that's not a RAM limitation at all. They call it "memory" and I would get more specific and call it "virtual memory". You don't need to use any RAM for the job if you have fast enough swap, and a swap file or partition on an SSD will do.

      --
      Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
  6. Long live openwrt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I still use two* WRT54G(L) routers with dd-wrt software (tomato is good as well), although they are aged. The oldest one has served us for 9 years now. Looks like 54g is enough for you.

    * Actually had three, one of these died out of my own stupidity two weeks ago. I left it in the rain a few weeks ago and I powered it up too early. Cannot blame Linksys for it :) The other two are still going strong.

    1. Re: Long live openwrt by caution+live+frogs · · Score: 1

      My WRT54G is a Rev. 1 model. Tomato, running strong. I use it as a secondary these days, with an Asus RT-N16 as primary (for gigabit throughput on the LAN). Also have a Rev. 4 set up, currently using it as an emergency backup should either of the others crap out on me.

      The Rev 1 was picked up for $1 at a yard sale, the Rev 4 was a freebie from a friend. Never underestimate the possibilities older hardware can offer if you know how to dump the stock firmware.

  7. run more ethernet by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    if the devices are not laptops / tablets

  8. Routerboard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    http://routerboard.com/RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN

    Been using this one for almost a year, with no issues. Plenty of bells and whistles for the home business/power user.

    1. Re:Routerboard by isorox · · Score: 1

      http://routerboard.com/RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN

      Been using this one for almost a year, with no issues. Plenty of bells and whistles for the home business/power user.

      Absolutely, no brainer for a mikrotik. I find the 951-2n fine for home though - I have 4 of them, lacking any cables between rooms means I use 5ghz on the backbone, and have a single 2.4ghz network for wireless.

    2. Re:Routerboard by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      I've tried to get Routerboards before, but the distribution network in the US is terrible-- no stock, insane lead times, and non responsive. Have you found a good distributor?

    3. Re:Routerboard by the_crowbar · · Score: 1
      These are absolutely awesome pieces of gear. The RB2011UAS is cheap for what it gets you.
      • 5 GB LAN ports (one defaults to WAN port)
      • 5 100MB LAN ports
      • Builtin 2.4GHz WiFi with amazing range
      • SFP cage if your are lucky enough to have fiber to your building
      • USB port for connecting a 3G modem
      • Console port
      • SSH/Web/Windows Config utility (config utility runs great in Wine)
      • Handles high heat better than most home oriented gear (rated to 65C!)

      So many configuration options it makes dd-wrt, open-wrt, or tomato look like children's toys. I know OpenWRT/DD-WRT/etc are running Linux underneath and have many options for changing the system, but the MikroTik gear provides an easy way to access all these options. MikroTik is not open source, but the others are (DD-WRT is partly open source).

      As noted by others, the problem is getting one. I have standing orders for them and they have been back ordered for a couple of months.

      If you are in a hurry also check out Ubiquiti. I just picked up some of their gear and it seems very solid. I have not yet had a chance to stress it the way I have the Mikrotik stuff, but it seems to be in stock everywhere.

      the_crowbar

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      Have you read the Moderator Guidelines
    4. Re:Routerboard by the_crowbar · · Score: 1

      I would try roc-noc.com. They have most RouterBoards in stock except the 2011. The 2011 is the closest to a home router all in one that MikroTik makes. I also have some RB493G devices. The 493 has 3 mini-PCI slots and you can add radios for whatever bands you want (2.4GHz, 5GHz). The price will be higher. For one with dual radios you will probably be in the $300 range. You do get 9 GB ports which is nice if you have all GB devices.

      Thanks,
      the_crowbar

      --
      Have you read the Moderator Guidelines
  9. What's killing them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Even the cheapest routers I have last much longer than a year. What are you doing to your routers that you kill one every year?

    1. Re:What's killing them? by jones_supa · · Score: 2

      Exactly. If the asker already has multiple routers dead, I suggest there is some other problem than the "cheapness" of them. Power spikes, lightning, and whatnot.

  10. UPS by eric31415927 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Buy a consumer-grade router, but use a UPS to ensure it receives clean power. Dirty power kills these things.

    1. Re:UPS by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Agreed, given the repeated failures here, the power supply might be less than wonderful.

      It's also worth remembering that "enterprise" equipment is often more about the management features (which no home user is ever likely to need) than the hardware itself. Sometimes the low-end business gear actually turns out to be worse than decent consumer kit. For example, we bought a bunch of Cisco's small business branded equipment for a small office once, paying a premium for it but expecting that the quality and support would be better than some disappointing consumer grade equipment it was replacing. In fact, the NAS turned out to be a rebadged device from another vendor that Cisco never really supported properly, the wireless access point turned out to have buggy firmware that would just drop connections, and so on. It's a mistake we'll never make again.

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    2. Re:UPS by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      yeah..

      i got a wireless router that's.. something like 7 years old? some other network gear that's 10+ year old bargain bin stuff.

      it never breaks. probably what's broken in his equipment is some protection diode or the psu.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:UPS by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Informative

      no, that's not the problem.

      as someone who fixes stuff like this, its the bulk filter capacitors (electrolytics) that 99% of the time, fail.

      these are the fake chinese caps that are STILL in the market and supply chain. they burst (look at the telltale leakage at the top of the can, near the 'dents' that are supposed to burst if the pressure inside is too high). they can explode or just leak. they might not even show any physical signs of failure but they will fail, all of the, given enough time.

      each time I get a failed cisco, netgear, etc; I look at the power inlet area and look for bad caps. I replace every one (the cans) even if they look fine. go to mouser.com or digikey.com and get ones of the same lead spacing (LS) and diameter and height. and of course, the same voltage level. the values are less critical, you can go up or down a bit if based on the stock in the store.

      use good name brand parts from japan! those are trustworthy. and buy ONLY from places like mouser, etc. NEVER from ebay, those are guaranteed to be just as fake as the ones from the assembly lines in china, who built the cisco and netgear.

      this is the problem. not ups or power spikes but just plain bad parts from china.

      every single bad router or switch that got its caps replaced with genuine panasonic or nichicon (my 2 usual goto brands) has been working in excess of 5 years, now. before the replacement, usually a year before the PSU blows its caps.

      get low ESR caps, too. ask a EE guy for help.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    4. Re:UPS by dbIII · · Score: 1

      There's a Billion reasons why these things can die (eg. a lot of devices sold by Billion overheat in places hotter than Canada).

    5. Re:UPS by sjames · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. I have a WRT plugged in to an old UPS that's been running for years.

    6. Re:UPS by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Totally agree. We bough a Cisco AP and it was a buggy piece of shit that only worked,tolerably well after a firmware update released a year after we purchased it. Even then it ran incredibly hot, and seemed to randomly flake out and clients would lose connectivity. It was an overpriced hunk of junk.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:UPS by __aaltlg1547 · · Score: 2

      I've had a device fail that way. Maybe the best protection for that problem is take off the cover, measure the temperature of the chips when operating, attach heat sinks to those devices and modify the cover so it has air flow-through. (It helps if you can put it in a vertical orientation so that there is natural convection too.) It shouldn't normally be necessary to install a fan and if you do, you're making it vulnerable to dust build up that can make things worse over time.

    8. Re: UPS by wheeda · · Score: 1

      Sometime back someone stole the formula for the electolytic and sold s bunch of it. Sadly the didn't get the formula right. The world is still suffering the consequences. Replacing the barrel caps is usually the right answer. You could open a service store and only know how to solder and order caps and probably do OK.

    9. Re:UPS by swalve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. The only enterprise grade device someone really needs in their house is a UPS. The rest can be whatever is good enough.

    10. Re:UPS by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Even with the cover off, some great big lumps of aluminium (old CPU heatsinks) and a pedestal fan blowing shitloads of air at it the ambient temperature of the incoming air proved too much for one I had at home one summer so I ditched it for a cheap and nasty Chinese one that turned out to be better in every way for half the price (worked until I retired it to get a 5GHz band device). That was a few years ago but I've heard there are still some Billion models that still overheat easily.

      Of course that may be where an "enterprise" device is a bad choice since it's a fair assumption that an "enterprise" device is going to be used in air conditioning and not above 30C inside.

    11. Re:UPS by DMUTPeregrine · · Score: 1

      Panasonic, Nippon Chemicon, and Cornell-Dubilier are my favorites. I agree that it's almost always the cheap electrolytics drying out that causes the issues.

      --
      Not a sentence!
    12. Re:UPS by cooperaaaron · · Score: 1

      I don't use any type of protection on my two Netgear WNR 3500L's and have been running them nonstop for at least 2 years. I do agree with you as far as the clean power is concerned; I am just wondering what the OP does to go thru 1 consumer grade router per year ?

    13. Re:UPS by snsh · · Score: 2

      I call BS... "Dirty power" can be a serious problem for refrigerators and air conditioners containing AC motors, but is meaningless for electronics powered by a switching power supply with a 5-volt output. You can power a router with a 120-volt sine wave or a 200-volt scribble wave, and the semiconductors in the router will still see 5-volts.

    14. Re:UPS by AlphaWolf_HK · · Score: 1

      Where's "here"?

      I find it strange to hear about network equipment dieing after only a year. I've had the same WNR3500L for four years now, and added an Asus RT-N16 two years ago because I needed a second AP to provide for more coverage when I moved into a larger house. Both still work great, and I haven't had to baby them or anything.

      Unless by "here" you mean there is some kind of California thing where power outages damage equipment? I'm in Phoenix Arizona - we use nuclear and hydro (largest nuclear plant in the US in fact) and our grid is pretty stable and cheap. In fact IIRC California buys 25% of their electrons from us. It's too bad California won't ever consider nuclear, it could probably solve some of their problems.

      --
      Careful with names containing L slashdot.org/~AiphaWolf_HK slashdot.org/~AlphaWoif_HK slashdot.org/~AiphaWoif_HK
    15. Re:UPS by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      FWIW, I'm in the UK, in an area where the power supply is less than brilliant. We don't get many complete outages, but moderate surges and brown-outs seem to be happening all the time if the behaviour of a UPS is to be believed.

      The working life of our electronic devices was surprisingly short across the board for the first few years after we moved here, with many formerly reliable devices all failing within a couple of years of the move, including (coincidentally or otherwise) multiple consumer-grade broadband routers. In contrast, in the years since installing a UPS for all the serious gear and at least basic surge protectors for everything else that plugs into a wall socket, we've seen almost no surprising failures of that kind.

      Of course we don't know for sure whether it was really the dubious power supply that was responsible, and as other posters have mentioned there are several alternative explanations that would also make sense. But given how many things we saw fail within the window where the power supply was bad, and how few failed before and afterwards, the odds of the power supply being a factor seem quite high in our case.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    16. Re:UPS by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      I've used a Cisco AP1232AG for a long time now, and it's been the most reliable piece of wireless kit I've ever used. What series of AP was giving you issues?

    17. Re:UPS by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      For 24/7 type operations, you don't buy small business targeted gear. And yes, Cisco is a prime screwup when it comes to small business SOHO gear these days. The Linksys routers used to be quality gear, but after Cisco bought them, I swear the top end Linksys gear that was actually decent had the internals swapped out for the low-end gear that sucked. I've gone through a large swath of wireless routers: Linksys, Cisco, D-Link, Netgear, TrendNet, and Buffalo that I remember out of the last 8 years or so. All suck at dropping connections, which when you're on VPNs almost constantly is unacceptable.

      I finally broke down and bought an Apple Basestation Extreme 18 months ago. It's been rebooted 4 times, twice because of network configuration changes I made. Dropped connections are so rare now that I don't immediately look to the wireless connection anymore. I now wish I'd ponied up the cash earlier because a working wireless connection is certainly worth the extra $120 or so. For comparison, real business class wireless G routers were starting at about $500 at the time, which is why I personally don't own any of those. The Basestation is N, bonus!

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    18. Re:UPS by godefroi · · Score: 1

      Ssh. They're having fun, let them be.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    19. Re:UPS by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Yeah, the only thing worse then consumer grade crap is the SMB grade crap. I always recommend low end enterprise over SMB sized equipment. Your better off rolling your own using embedded hardware, pfsense for the router, nas4free for your SAN.

      Stick to standards and stay away from the guys that write their own "standards" like Cisco.

    20. Re:UPS by Whiteox · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I spent big bucks on a supposedly bulletproof Billion. Rave reviews yet it died within 18 months. The damn thing kept overheating until it karked.
      I got the cheapest replacement (D-Link 520) which is still working fine.

      --
      Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
    21. Re:UPS by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Or rip and replace the onboard electrolytic caps. These are inveriably what fails (crap external power supplies have the same issue, I've encountered a number of "dead routers" which were actually dead PSUs) CAVEAT: none of this makes a blind bit of difference if the OP is in an area prone to lightning strikes. UPSes won't help either. A hit on or near the phone line will induce enough voltage into the circuit to overwhelm any consumer-grade electronic device on the end (In the days when cordless phones were worth servicing I used to regularly open them up to fine BIG BLACK track marks across the inside of the case from where the phone line went in, to wehere the power went in.

    22. Re:UPS by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      That applies in enterprise structures a lot of the time too. There's a shedload of unnecessary gold plating going on and the devices STILL have badcap issues.

    23. Re:UPS by twitnutttt · · Score: 1

      Ummmmmm. San Onofre!!!! Nuclear power and a great surf break.

  11. I find that hard to beleive. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I seem to go through at least 1 wireless consumer grade router a year or so.

    I've had this LinkSys WRT54G for a few years now and it's perfectly fine.

    What is going on that you're going through so many routers?

    What brands are you using?

    It could be something else other than the equipment - like environment. Got a cat pissing on it? What?

  12. HP Procurve gear is good by tibit · · Score: 2

    I've had lots of luck with HP Procurve gear. We use a couple of J8986A (530) access points at work and they seem to be unbeatable. For a router, run a linux box. Can be as little as a raspberry pi with VLANs split up by an external switch.

    --
    A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    1. Re:HP Procurve gear is good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't use a raspi for routing. Its ethernet port is connected via USB and has atrocious performance.

    2. Re:HP Procurve gear is good by tibit · · Score: 1

      I use stuff that was designed almost a decade ago. Works just fine for a small business, and it's pretty damn cheap, too. I have zero experience with HP things newer than perhaps 2009.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
  13. I use AP300 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Its small business grade, I've used it for a few years. Works well. AP300. For out of the box sub $100 price range I don't think you can do better.

    http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/ap300.html

  14. Apple Airport by uglyduckling · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This may not be a popular opinion, but I'm a big fan of Apple Airport gear. They generally support the latest/fastest standards quite quickly, are easy to configure, have built-in PSUs rather than wall warts, and I've generally found their range to be better than average for consumer WiFi kit. Other than that latest models (which look ridiculous) they're generally neat and look OK in the living room. I've had one Airport Express die on me after 2 years of use, and that was already second hand when I bought it and spent its life behind a pile of hot hifi gear as an Airtunes sink.

    1. Re:Apple Airport by LDAPMAN · · Score: 1

      I have to agree. I have 3 Airport extremes and 4 Airport Express units in my configuration and they work flawlessly. No failures and the oldest one is 4-5 years old.

    2. Re:Apple Airport by jones_supa · · Score: 1

      I spent years blaming Comcast for the occasional network hiccups before replacing my Linksys and replacing it with an Airport.

      So what did you replace your Linksys with, before replacing it with an Airport? ;)

    3. Re:Apple Airport by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My complaint with the Airport is the awful management interface, and extremely limited options. Our office unit has been quite reliable over the past 3-4 years though for wifi. The management limitations just force us to put it in the DMZ and VPN into the LAN, which reduces speeds somewhat.

      For a home router for a /.er though, I would think the Asus RT66NU would be a pretty good pick: you can install DD-WRT-derived (I think) firmware and get Transmission, OpenVPN, SSH access, etc. It is also 12V, so easy enough to hook up a small battery/power supply/regulator and avoid a UPS. It isn't perfect, but I doubt I would ever go with an Airport again unless I had the same compatibility problems I experienced with my old MacBook Pro.

    4. Re:Apple Airport by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Airport Express? Can they handle more than 15 devices connecting between reboots now?

    5. Re:Apple Airport by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I recommend Apple Airport's as well. They are somewhat limited in feature but they are really stable, I have some that are over 10 years old that work perfectly (b/g only).
      I also second Buffalo routers. A little more expensive than your el-cheapo home router but stable as hell and comes with DD-WRT.

      Asus also makes some good ones but make sure to replace the wall-wart it comes (mine was a 2A) with with a slightly higher wattage/current (I used a 3A but measured usage spikes of 2.2A). The 2A that came in the box blew out about 9 months in and I suspect that's what happens with a lot of other routers too - they simply don't or only barely have the juice to power the radio under certain conditions and any line power issue reduces the voltage it supplies to the point the processor gets stuck, reboots or simply burns out. They also come under spec for quality routing this day and age. I still see routers shipping with 16 or 32MB of RAM and 200MHz processors and they're supposed to do gigabit routing on 4-8 ports and 600Mbps wireless, firewall, dhcpd, NAT, ... A simple routing and NAT table can fill that amount of RAM up in no time when a couple of people have torrents on.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    6. Re:Apple Airport by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I have deployed Airport Express devices on an enterprise network. 2 base stations easily power about 50 devices with RADIUS.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    7. Re:Apple Airport by LDAPMAN · · Score: 1

      They are deployed as wired-to-wireless access points for my satellite boxes and other devices that don't have wireless interfaces. They have been in place for years with no issues. I've never had to reboot them...ever.

  15. Alix 2D13 by Kentaro · · Score: 1

    I have been using an Alix 2D13 mainboard together with pfsense for the past two years. Before that I had a Draytek Vigor 2820 running for 4 years. Replaced it with pfsense because of the lacking IPv6 support. If your electronics die so fast I suggest that you invest in a small uninterruptable power supply. Not for protecting against power loss but brown-out and spikes.

    1. Re:Alix 2D13 by elbles · · Score: 1

      I run a 2D3 myself, and it's rock solid (actually running CentOS/iptables). A tad on the expensive side, particularly considering how relatively low-powered it is by modern standards, but it's x86 compatible with full serial console access.

      And it really is solid--I keep all my networking gear at home on a UPS, and it's still far more solid than any standalone Linksys router was (and uses far less power than it's predecessor--a Celeron 366 MHz box that had ~1400 days of uptime before I killed it).

  16. Sure! by Life2Death · · Score: 2

    Old PC + Vyatta Community Edition. ClearOS, Or many other open source routers.
    FreeNAS or OpenFiler for SAN duties
    WRT54G or newer device that can run full DD-WRT for an access point or router.

  17. For maximizing reliability by walshy007 · · Score: 1

    Generic random modem in bridge mode going to a proper linux machine router.

    Attach home network to second ethernet interface.

    If you want wireless, use the linux machine as a wireless AP using a pci/e card of some description.

    Consumer modems are shitty, the more you make them do the quicker they fail, as a pure modem they tend to last a fair bit longer and have less load applied.

    Bonus is if/when the modem does die, the rest of the infrastructure still lives.

    1. Re:For maximizing reliability by crow · · Score: 1

      I went this route, but I found that a Linux box with a PCI-e WiFi card acting as a base station doesn't give me the same range or signal strength as a dedicated base station.

      Maybe I picked a bad card (I have tried several, though). Or maybe I didn't configure something right.

      As far as having control over your network, though, you can't beat it.

    2. Re:For maximizing reliability by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      I think he is referring to something that can run open firmware. I agree completely with GP's strategy; you can even keep a spare modem around if you need to. Also recommend switching FiOS over to the Ethernet rather than coax at the ONT to avoid the need for a modem.

  18. Buffalo by sribe · · Score: 2

    I've had the best luck with Buffalo so far. Linksys, D-Link, NetGear, even Cisco small business and NetGear business-class have been pathetic crap. My Buffalo router has not been in service over a year, so I cannot honestly speak to longevity. But I can speak to lack of extraordinarily lame firmware bugs ;-)

    1. Re:Buffalo by Dr_Barnowl · · Score: 1

      I have a very old Buffalo WBR G54 ; slow wifi, just barely good enough for one wireless video stream - which is good enough. It's lasted over 10 years running OpenWRT after it replaced the Belkin I had before. The wireless transponder on the Belkin failed, but the switch was still working.

      I do sometimes get the upgrade itch for something with more grunt, but since I don't have any real issues with it, pragmatism wins.

  19. Re:MikroTik by ZerXes · · Score: 1

    I... what? Never ever worked with an ISP using MikroTik routers. Or are you talking about small like collage student ISPs or something?

  20. TP-LINK L-WR541G by thewebdude · · Score: 1

    Yes, I know what you mean; my experience mirrored yours. After replacing routers every year, (including an expensive one I hoped would last longer) I bought the cheapest one on NewEgg, resigned to replacing it within a year. At 3 years and counting, I've never even had to power cycle it. Stay away from the blue ones; they're the worst.

  21. It's all the same stuff anyway by Mark+of+the+North · · Score: 1

    I've been using consumer-grade wireless equipment in the enterprise. The key is that we flash routers with OpenWRT. We decided to do this after testing out some enterprise wireless gear from a couple of reputable companies, cracking open their equipment, and realizing it was basically identical to the consumer-grade gear. It's also nice having to worry a little less about the possibility of manufacturer's back-doors. Much lower price and the ability to have a nearly identical interface on a mix of equipment are big positives as well. A minus is that devices tend to keep a death-grip on the access-point they connect to first.

    We must have 50 wireless access points (mostly Netgear, some ASUS, some Linksys) running for a couple of years and have had no issues whatsoever other than having one router lock up after a power bump.

    What equipment are you using? Either it's junk or you have some sort of problem in your environment (dirty power, high ambient temperatures).

  22. Ubiquity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Use Ubiquity gear, saves you a lot of headaches and is very affordable

  23. Re:MikroTik by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    I... what? Never ever worked with an ISP using MikroTik routers. Or are you talking about small like collage student ISPs or something?

    Presumably, college students know the difference between a collage and a college, so that's one thing they have over you.

    I live in bumfuck nowhere and I used to be served by a small local WISP who used Mikrotik routerboards. They were bought out by a larger WISP which uses some kind of CDMA shit that can't handle many small frames, so I'm not allowed to use bittorrent even for legitimate uses. The WiFi-based stuff using the routerboards was far better from my POV.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  24. A router per year? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    That's nuts. Nobody hits that many clinkers in a row.

    Get yourself a good consumer-grade router and a surge protector, my good Sir/Ma'am/Fido.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  25. Check Point appliance recently released by flydpnkrtn · · Score: 1

    I have been extremely tempted to buy Check Point's latest all in one security appliance... they no longer use SofaWare as their embedded OS on their smaller appliances, it's a scaled down GAIA (the next evolution of Check Point's SPLAT for those who do Check Point stuff). It's pretty nuts all the things they pack into one little box... 10 1 gig ports, and 802.11 b/g/n

    "All 600 Appliances come standard with 10 x 1Gbps Ethernet ports. For added flexibility and convenience, the wireless version of the 600 Appliance includes a WiFi access point (802.11b/g/n) that supports WEP, WPA and WPA2 authentication as well as secured guest access capabilities. The optional integrated ADSL modem eliminates the need for a separate external ADSL modem. Additionally, the included USB and PCI Express card slots allow an administrator to plug in a compatible third party 3G modem, providing an additional WAN connectivity for a redundant Internet link for maximum reliability."

    http://www.checkpoint.com/products/600-appliances/index.html

    Looks like they're about $400 on a random site I googled. Really tempting... I've been thinking about doing the same thing (plus REAL web filtering built-in, for my daughter).

    1. Re:Check Point appliance recently released by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Maybe it is just luck of the draw, but a restaurant I go to uses the Checkpoint and reliability/range seems disappointing.

  26. Before your continue.. by post_toastie · · Score: 1

    Take a look at why and how you're going through consumer grade equipment so quickly. Are you using it in a hot/dusty or otherwise detrimental environment? If so, buying expensive "enterprise" equipment is wasting your money. Unless you've had a rash of bad luck, there's no reason for so many failures.

  27. My setup by Natales · · Score: 1

    I had similar needs about a year ago, including the fact that I was going back into network engineering after some years out of that field, so I wanted a flexible yet powerful setup in my home with focus on speed, security and flexibility make changes.

    In order to achieve flexibility, I wanted as many components as possible to be in software. I already had 2 large diskless ESX servers connected to a QNAP TS-659 Pro II over NFS and iSCSI, so I updated my physical switch to a Cisco SG-300 20 and I setup link aggregation among all components effectively doubling the speed. The next step was to create purpose-specific VLANs. VoIP, home network, guest network and home entertainment systems are all in separate VLANs. Guest and home networks each have 2 Apple Airport devices setup as access points (not as gateways). Everything else is hard wired.

    The main router and firewall is a purpose built Linux VM where I get to control everything in software. The cable modem from Comcast is plugged into the Cisco switch where it goes into its own VLAN directly to the gateway VM.

    The setup has been up for a year. Minor updates have been applied to each component with very little disruption. I'm now starting to experiment with Nicira controllers for virtual networking within this environment so all future testing will remain in the software realm.

  28. Business gear fails too... by kiriath · · Score: 1

    The continuous power recommendation above is probably your best bet.

    Enterprise level gear is good stuff, but it can fail as well, part of what makes it enterprise is the service agreements and rapid replacement you can get on them. Really for a small network that would be a waste of money.

    Would you buy a tractor-trailer rig to get stuff from a lumber yard occasionally when a pickup truck would suffice? Just keep said pickup truck well maintained and it should be fulfill your needs and be less expensive than the corporate solution.

    I realize that was kind of a stretch but hopefully it helps to illustrate the point.

  29. Re:WRT54G by TheGoodNamesWereGone · · Score: 1

    I've had mine since about 2005 and it's been rock solid reliable.

  30. Cisco 871 by pcjunky · · Score: 2

    Cisco 800 series routers do a great job. Used on ebay for as little as $50. I use an 871 but for most an 851 would do just as well. Very stable with some having over a year of up time. For wireless look at 1200 series AP's. Dual band versions like the 1231AG go for as little as $30 on ebay. Tolerate temps as high as 122 deg F so you can even put them in attics.

    I would rather have a used BMW than a new KIA any day. Besides most pure electronics don't wear out the way machanical things do. My old Apple II still works fine, as does my Icom 745 HF rig from the mid 80's.

    1. Re:Cisco 871 by mcmonkey · · Score: 1

      I would rather have a used BMW than a new KIA any day. Besides most pure electronics don't wear out the way machanical things do. My old Apple II still works fine, as does my Icom 745 HF rig from the mid 80's.

      Interesting point, but I disagree 100%. I'd rather have the new Kia. BMWs are over-engineered, making them more likely to have issues and more expensive to repair then they need to be. Kia may not be stylish, but they are going to be reliable. Everyone I know with a BMW loves driving it, hates maintaining it.

      For real home use (assuming OP isn't running a gold mining sweat shop out of the basement) home-market devices do great. Going with enterprise-level gear just gets you enterprise-level support headaches.

      I'll echo what others have said: before buying any more routers--at any level--OP needs to figure out where the issues are coming from. I suspect at this point spending more for enterprise-level equipment will just mean more money lost when the thing dies in a year.

      I've been going with Netgear for home routers since before WiFi was even a thing, when I was running Cat5 to get rooms networked. Every 3 to 4 years I upgrade to the latest and greatest to get new features. I've never had one fail before I chose to replace it. I'm on my 5th or 6th generation.

      Bad capacitors aside, something is going on with the OP and it ain't the devices. (And if it is the devices, and OP is just unlucky and gets the runt of every liter, isn't that just more reason to avoid more expensive equipment?)

      Besides most pure electronics don't wear out the way machanical things do.

      So why is the OP going through routers so fast?

  31. Alternative solution: by NEDHead · · Score: 1

    Streaming 3-4 1080P videos? How about get off the couch and try spending some time in the real world?

  32. A bit biased here... by Grench · · Score: 2

    I've always run with Cisco gear at work, so I figured, why not run with Cisco gear at home? Price is only a concern if you're buying new, and even when most people buy new, they don't buy at list price - they find a gold-certified reseller who can offer them up to 60% off Cisco list prices. Me? I bought most of my kit off eBay.

    My own current setup is:

    1x Cisco 1841 router with EHWIC-1ADSL for my broadband connection (this card supports ADSL2+)
    1x Cisco Aironet AIR-AP1231G-E-K9 for wireless
    1x Cisco Catalyst WS-C2940-8TT-S for a switch

    The router was £60 off eBay. The WIC was £40 off eBay.
    The switch was £40 off eBay. Sure, it's only a 100 Mbit/sec switch, but my internet connection is only around 10 Mbit/sec downstream. Works for me.
    The wireless AP was £50 in a clearance sale from PCW Business - it was brand new in box.

    If I'd bought an 1801, it'd have had an ADSL2+ interface built-in, but I wanted a router with a couple of WIC slots.

    Total - £190. This ticks all the price boxes for me.

    In terms of reliability - I've had the AP for a few years now and it's fine; the switch and router were more recent, and haven't let me down either. I've used all of these device types professionally for years (including in dirty warehouses, offshore oil platforms, and in Portakabins running off diesel generators), and have never had one fail yet, so I don't expect one to at home.

    The 1841 isn't fanless, so it does make a small amount of noise, but it's not too bad (less noise than my peronal gaming desktop PC, but more noise than my Dell work laptop). It lives in my hallway next to the phone jack, so the noise doesn't annoy anyone. The 2940 switch and 1231 AP are fanless and run silently.

    For server stuff, I've got a Raspberry Pi running Samba4 (for Active Directory), Cacti and Observium (for SNMP polling / graphing my Cisco kit), rsyslogd (for syslogging) and am currently pulling my hair out trying to get Horde Webmail to integrate authentication with LDAP. I also want to get a TACACS/RADIUS setup going.

    --
    He's Jesus, for Christ's sake.
    1. Re:A bit biased here... by Fjandr · · Score: 1

      I'd second the 1200-series APs from Cisco. Haven't used any of the rest, so no comment there.

  33. Re:Old Cisco Equipment by pcjunky · · Score: 1

    Cisco 871 here and a C2950-24 switch. The 3550 is great if you want the layer 3 capabilities but remember it's power requirements as are around 80 watts. The 2950 uses only around 18 and isn't as noisy.

    Failures much lass frequent. In fact I buy these for customers on ebay for around $50. Zero failures on the 871 routers and only one on the C2950.

    Remember if it isn't running IOS it isn't real Cisco gear. Never mind the Linksys crap they bought and put there name on. Big mistake that even they now realize as they are dumping Linksys.

  34. Anything with... by Thor+Ablestar · · Score: 1

    Any model of router that has enough RAM and ROM and architecture supported by OpenWRT. It does NOT mean that you will really use OpenWRT but it means that you have at least one alternative firmware and the router is NOT a cheap [Nomina sunt Odiosa] box with minimal functions.

    Then, you may experiment with heatsinks and add a ceramic cap in parallel with every electrolytic cap inside if you wish, replace a cheap [Nomina sunt Odiosa] power source with UPS and do what you want.

    If your box is a supermegaextraprofessional router but it does NOT support OpenWRT then sometime you will experience some bug and will be unable to distinguish it from a hardware error since you have no alternative firmware. I personally had a yearlong dispute with ISP and D-Link before I got a terribly bad modem. It was old, buggy, it required a heatsink mod - but it had OpenWRT support. Then, all the bugs were successfully caught. I use it now.

  35. Enterprise routers? by HockeyPuck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    30mbps downstream from the ISP and an internal network that should be able to stream 1080p movies to 3 or 4 devices from a media server?

    Most enterprises implement a dual product solution. They install a dedicated router and a wireless access point. So get ready to spend $500+ on your solution. The linksys/netgear/asus products are meant to be all in one devices.

    If you're looking for an all in one router then look at the Cisco 800 series routers. However, most of the models provide features you do not need like hardware based VPN or QoS, features you most likely do not need for providing you family with access to hulu/youtube etc..

    However, I've got an Asus RT-A66U (or Best Buy's name: RT-A66R, same router different name). Easily handles 50Mb down and has 4 GigE ports for LAN traffic. Great range and decent price. Sure the top gets warm/hot but that's because it uses the top metal cover as a large heat sink. I don't put other gear on top of it nor hold it, so it's not a problem. Has solid reviews on Newegg as well.

    If you're breaking so many devices you might want to figure out why you're breaking them. Dirty power? Dirty location? (Got a cat/dog?). Don't say "I'm downloading too much..." There's people out there with ancient linksys W54GL's out there and it's not like those were made with "Enterprise Grade Components"

    1. Re:Enterprise routers? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      Or dedicated everythings - a router, a switch, and an AP

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
  36. Mesh Routers by ShopMgr · · Score: 1

    I have been using open-mesh routers for years. http://www.open-mesh.com/ They are reliable, self-organizing and I can get at least 10 Mbps through one with Speedtest.net.

  37. Or lets suggest a bunch of consumer crap by maliqua · · Score: 1

    And hobbyist gear that no normal person could be arsed to deal with.

    Yes enterprise gear can last a long time, but at the same time its also finicky as hell particularly with power enterprise gear expects to live a pampered life in most cases i've found enterprise gear in the home environment to have mixed results. at least get a few good UPSs if you go this route.

  38. Middle of the road by Shoten · · Score: 1

    Okay, there are options besides "consumer" and "enterprise." There are network devices for small offices and medium businesses. You don't need a Cisco 6900-series chassis to be more reliable than a dogshit consumer router. Cisco is a bit more filled-out in this range (I run some of this class of gear at home myself, and am happy). I have a Gig-E backbone and use a business-class WAP for wireless. It's not a wifi router mind you...no NAT, no switchports, no WPS. And I like it that way, because it allows me to have a flat network at home, gets rid of WPS and its security vulnerabilities, and it just plain works. My firewall is a Cisco ASA 5505 with a VPN license, and that, too, just plain works great.

    I'm deliberately omitting hardware specifications and model numbers for the most part, for a good reason. What I have is for myself, and my requirements. What the OP needs is for them to decide. And that's where he/she should start...with requirements. I wanted Gig at the wire level, and 802.11n for wireless with fairly tight security. I wanted a solid VPN at my edge that would be able to leverage the VPN client on my work computer. I wanted a flat network for primary, trusted systems so that my Apple TV could see iTunes on my desktop, and printing from the MacBook would be simple. And my home network design reflects all of this. The OP might have different needs...so they need to figure out what those needs are, and then find the devices that fit them.

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    1. Re:Middle of the road by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      In my experience the Small Business equipment is worse the consumer equipment. It may be slightly more durable, but they often try to cram features that are poorly implemented and it makes the whole device flaky.

  39. Re:DIY recommendation here: by Thor+Ablestar · · Score: 1

    And all this will cost you 3-4 times more and take 3-4 times more place than a specialized device. Also, it will have 3 times more glitches that you will never be able to catch: the simple ADSL modem has NO RAM and ROM for alternative firmware. Then, TL-WR702N has only 2 MB flash. It means that you also cannot use any alternative firmware (it needs at least 4). You will be unable to use any functions that you cannot migrate from TL-WR to Atom.

  40. My setup by iamwhoiamtoday · · Score: 1

    I also had issues regarding consumer grade routers (largely that they liked to slow down and die and crash horrifically), so I took a slightly different approach.

    I'm using a small Mini-ITX server, using an Intel D525, 4GB of memory, and a 60GB SSD for ClearOS / Squid Proxy (does wonders for WoW Updates, actually...)
    That handles all outbound traffic. That's hooked up to a nice 16-port gigabit switch, and I run cables for as many things as I possibly can. There's about 30 different wifi signals I can hit right now, so anything sent is going to be slow as hell, provided that it gets anywhere. Cat6 cables run to everything.

    For those few things that have no ethernet ports, I use an Apple Airport Express-N thingy to host my wifi. I've been using one for about 2 years now in this way, and have had no issues. I have two Apple TVs, both wired into the network. iTunes on my old Mac Mini is pointed at my ZFS file server, and everything works very well.

  41. Re:Old Cisco Equipment by elbles · · Score: 1

    I use a 3550 at home too, specifically for its layer-3 capabilities. Of course, if you want a gigabit switch that does layer-3, you're talking about $$$$, even on eBay.

    Other than that, Cisco gear all the way. It's overpriced, and for the most part, you're going to be limited to 100 megabit, even on eBay, for a reasonable price, but it's rock solid gear.

  42. Ubiquiti gear by mrwilsox · · Score: 2

    I use Ubiquiti gear at home: their UniFi Pro access point and their EdgeRouter Lite (based on Vyatta) as my router. You can't go wrong.

  43. RouterBoard by decep · · Score: 1

    If I had not just purchased a WNR3500v2 to run DD-WRT/Tomato, I would have purchased the following:

    http://routerboard.com/RB2011UAS-2HnD-IN

  44. UPS your wireless router by cyberspittle · · Score: 1

    I've been using a Dlink 601 for over a year. I have it in an UPS. Biggest issue is surge when you turn on microwave, A/C cycles on, etc. If you can run ethernet, it really is not that hard. Wireless should be only for guests. Wireless is great for neighbors.

  45. Re:Does anybody have experiences about milspec'd? by cyberspittle · · Score: 1

    The military uses off the shelf as it is cost effective. In the field, you need access to compressed air, or you run overpressure in your room to keep dust out. Pantyhose and a good fan are helpful.

  46. probably overheating them by SuperBanana · · Score: 2

    The OP is probably blocking their air vents or placing them in closets where they're overheating, or on top of cable boxes/DVRs (which are like ovens.)

    1. Re:probably overheating them by cooperaaaron · · Score: 1

      No, not really. I completely agree with the OP. Home equipment is complete shit, and tends to fail rather quickly, especially Wireless routers. Switches last long but I've had a few come up with a dead port once in a while. It really sucks, so I too have been looking for better options.

      For my home router I use a Debian Squeeze PC that I setup on an Intel Atom 330 board. Routes my 50/50 WAN perfectly well, even after applying firewall and NAT. For switches, I found that Mikrotik makes decent gear. They make routers too but I don't want to depend on a proprietary OS for my routing features. For switches, I like having a hardware switch chip and there's no setup to be done, so Mikrotik isn't bad for that.

      Of course, if I could get my hands on a Cisco managed gigabit switch I'd use that instead behind my Linux router, but I'm not shitting money yet.

      My home equipment works great and has been doing so unprotected for a couple of years now...

    2. Re:probably overheating them by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      The problem with high-end network equipment IMHO, is the noise. They assume you are putting it in a data center where noise is not an issue. In a home, fan noise from enterprise equipment is way too loud. I recommend embedded x86 alix running pfsense (netgate.com), or something from ubiquiti or mikrotik. All this equipment is fan-less so there will be no noise problems.

    3. Re:probably overheating them by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Check out the HP 1810 line. It is web only interface :(, but the 8 port and 24 port are fan-less. You can monitor and manage via snmp and they have a robust feature set, nice price point, and lifetime warranty. I have an old 1800 24 port that has a fan, but I removed it and have had no ill effects.

  47. Look for alternative explanations by CptJeanLuc · · Score: 1

    For lots of the various gadgets I own, whenever I visit related forums, there are posts about how these gadgets "always break". Which I find interesting, because I almost never break anything I own, including those products. Yes, stuff may break, even under normal use. But when it happens too often, there is some other factor involved. Normally this would be due to careless use, so a user problem. If you feel that cannot be it, because you are not somehow physically abusing your gear ... then something else is going on, e.g. room conditions, power input, someone is messing with your stuff, violent sleepwalking.

    Let's say there is a 1% chance you get a faulty piece of equipment which breaks within a year. The chance that happens e.g. 4 times in a row is pretty slim, i.e. 0.01^4. So either you have simply lost the lottery, or you are looking for the wrong type of solution.

  48. YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    you are killing a router once a year under normal use? my god man blow the dust off of it once in a while and unbury it from behind the stack of shit. My old router lasted 6 years and the only reason I got rid of it is because my internet service increased to the point where it became a bottleneck. My parent still have their linksys from 2004 and this yuts cant keep one going for a year?

  49. NetGear! by houbou · · Score: 1

    a high-end netgear router and it works great and I use extensively for mobile, PCs and laptops. I also have 5GHz as well as 2.4 Ghz setups and anyways, it's been working like a charm for 2 yrs solid.

  50. Enterprise Routers by achaiah · · Score: 1

    I have been using a Mikrotik router (RB2011UAS-RM) for the past year (http://mikrotik.com). They have a device that is also wireless but I haven't tried that one. I may pick it up next year to play with it. It is full of features but can be a bit daunting to setup.

  51. The key to consumer based gear by kilodelta · · Score: 1

    Ditch the provided power supply and use a precision supply. Secondly, though shalt patch the firmware on a regular basis. It's how I got my WRT54G. It was a clients and they just bought a new one and gave me this one. My WAP54G died so I downloaded the latest firmware for the WRT54G and it worked flawlessly, has been doing so for years.

    1. Re:The key to consumer based gear by tyen · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about something like a bench top supply, or just a high quality AC wall wart adapter replacement? If the former, sure they'll supply clean power for the price, but if the latter, please post some brands that you have had good experience with over the years. These days if I'm lazy I'll just order one from adafruit, or just grab the first switching wall wart adapter that meets my specs from mouser or digikey; are there specific brands that are known for high quality, reliability, and durability?

  52. Enterprise or prosumer? by Chas · · Score: 1

    Honestly, if you're talking about real Cisco boxes, and the like, no. You probably don't need that.

    Still, it might not hurt to step up to the prosumer level devices.

    I got sick of the consumer crap treadmill. I have everything on UPS with a monster surge suppression unit, yet I had units of all kinds dying, or turning out to be useless. Finally, I had two $179 "consumer" routers die on me back to back in the middle of patching (shipping settings were SEVERELY broken and needed to be patched to be usable).

    I went out and bought a 24 port switch and Router from Netgear's ProSafe line. All gigabit. All good. Blue metal boxes!
    Anyhow, it's now been five years. And I haven't had to do a damn thing to my network other than an occasional bit of preventative maintenance (reboots, firmware updates, etc).

    It's always POSSIBLE that some of the higher end consumer stuff has gotten better. But, as my stuff works great, I have had exactly zero incentive to go and take a look.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  53. Re:What's killing them? FRICTION! by tlambert · · Score: 4, Funny

    What's killing them? FRICTION!

    See, he's a hard core gamer, which is also why he buys the faster red ethernet cables instead of the slower blue ones! This causes lots of friction, since he can have a higher packet load through the router, and the poor electronics just get worn out, since he plays about nine hours a day.

    He also mounts his routers in the back top shelf of the closets, so that the packets get a gravity assist getting to his computer. Apparently it takes about 1.8ms off his ping time, which is why he consistently beats his friend Charlie in Unreal Tournament.

    PS: We all know friction has to be the true answer, since they charge for GB instead of charging for the pipe size; everyone knows this is because routers with packets transiting them have more wear and tear than those same routers using the same amount of power, but not transiting as many packets. It's just common sense!

  54. Prosumer isn't good enough. by fsterman · · Score: 1

    As others have mentioned, the sweet spot is competitors for the corporate space, just a few notches below Cisco. HP, Ubiquity, Ruckus, they put out enterprise grade hardware that is almost affordable used.

    Prosumer gear just isn't built to last, it's built to maximize feature lists while minimizing cost. Even if many of you haven't had your networking gear go down on you at your home, you are the lucky ones. I have had a litany of routers and firmwares and I have watched a few small-medium businesses try to scale up on prosumer gear. Hobbyists don't have every router hardware revision plugged into a test rig with complex networking simulations for unit tests, it's all guess-and-pray. Maybe this will change as more enterprises embracing/fund open-source networking hardware and software development. Until then, being on the cutting edge while not spending a lot of money is a recipe for headaches.

    If you can't afford a $300 router, then use your ISP's modem as your main router and set everything else up as a pass-through or AP. I've tried to use DD-WRT et al. but they just don't have the resources to do the automated testing required for a high-quality product. These are modems that the ISP's purchase by the million and they have dedicated QA teams trying to bring costs down. Let the modem handle the routing, it makes the network management simpler anyway.

    Finally, when your end-point eventually falls over and it's out of warranty, buy a new one from Amazon et al. and swap out your router for the new one and send the busted electronics back for a refund : )

    --
    Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
  55. Re:Old Cisco Equipment by fsterman · · Score: 1

    Remember if it isn't running IOS it isn't real Cisco gear. Never mind the Linksys crap they bought and put there name on. Big mistake that even they now realize as they are dumping Linksys.

    Exactly, Linksys gear was bottom-of-the-barrel before Cisco bought it. The quality went up a little bit, but it just isn't made to the same spec that let's Cisco charge an arm and a leg for enterprise networking gear.

    --
    Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
  56. Re:Does anybody have experiences about milspec'd? by fsterman · · Score: 1

    Can you elaborate? Do you mean Best-Buy off the shelf or direct-from-HP off the shelf?

    --
    Is there anything better than clicking through Microsoft ads on Slashdot?
  57. Good advice for the OP, too. by RulerOf · · Score: 4, Informative

    You might want to invest in a newer router anyway.

    The thing that limits the old GL's aside from their pathetic RAM and flash space is that they simply don't have enough CPU power. NAT work on the number of connections today's computers and applications require is a lot of work for that aged ~200 MHz CPU. While it speeds up web browsing of course, it's more noticeable when you do more things. As my friend put it when I talked him into upgrading his router from a WRT54G v8 to a $50 dual band TP-Link unit, "I was gaming on my XBox for about an hour, and I came upstairs to find out that my wife had been watching Hulu the entire time. I had no idea..."

    They'd never been able to do that before without his game lagging constantly. It wasn't a bandwidth thing either. They have 6 Mb/s DSL.

    I recommend this model for the features. It'll run DD-WRT---you might want that too to ensure you have CoDeL support---but the stock firmware works great and has most of the same features.

    Here's a screenshot of DD-WRT's system status on the unit. I'm convinced that the version I'm running isn't quite stable.... hence the high load. It's also serving as an AP for me instead of doing NAT work. My NAT is done by a similarly-spec'ed device, a D-Link DIR-825, runs much better and costs about the same, but it only does 300Mbps on the 5 GHz interface. The D-Link might be a better candidate for DD-WRT if you're dead set on using it.

    --
    Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
    1. Re:Good advice for the OP, too. by RulerOf · · Score: 1

      I should probably add: I've been running the D-Link for 3 or 4 years now.

      --
      Boot Windows, Linux, and ESX over the network for free.
  58. Netgear WNR3500L/U/v2 - Uptime 579 days, by TooTechy · · Score: 1

    Name tomato
    Model Netgear WNR3500L/U/v2

    Time Sun, 14 Jul 2013 14:18:32 -0600
    Uptime 579 days, 13:44:21
    CPU Load (1 / 5 / 15 mins) 0.00 / 0.00 / 0.00
    Total / Free Memory 60.53 MB / 52.68 MB (87.03%)

  59. Get A UPS by StormReaver · · Score: 1

    If your wireless gear is dying rapidly, then I suggest putting them being a good UPS. It sounds more like a power supply problem than anything else. APC sells excellent UPS's around the $200 range.

  60. Enterprise firewall at home by hazeii · · Score: 1

    Use whatever as an 'access' device, and stick something stronger between the 'net and the home LAN.

    Could've bought a Cisco (actually there are Cisco routers rotting here) but a linux box between the router and the house LAN is easier and more secure.

    --
    All your ghosts are just false positives.
  61. Here's my cheap and bullet proof setup by ChadE.Miller,CISSP,I · · Score: 1

    I use my cable company's cable modem that has 802.11 N, Sophos UTM (free and on a low end AMD mid tower that cost about $200), and Cisco SMB switches that come with a lifetime warranty. Granted, this places wireless outside my firewall and IDS but that's OK because I have multiple ways to work around any issues that may arise. For example, I can remote print to my printers via Google, HP or via dynamic DNS (through a VPN). Here's the URLs: Sophos UTM: http://www.sophos.com/en-us/products/free-tools/sophos-utm-home-edition.aspx Cisco SMB Switches with lifetime warranty: http://www.cisco.com/cisco/web/solutions/small_business/products/routers_switches/100_series_switches/index.html

  62. decent home routers *are* proper linux machines by Chirs · · Score: 1

    they're just running on ARM or MIPS, not x86

    1. Re:decent home routers *are* proper linux machines by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      While they do technically run linux, the overwhelming majority are still running 2.4 and running on hardware so pathetic it is ridiculous. With the software being unable to be updated (even most dd-wrt hardware pieces are pretty weak)

  63. dont need enterprise grade by AkumaKuruma · · Score: 1

    overall i used to have the same problem back in the day. heavy internet use would lock up my old Linksys router about every other day and had to manually power cycle it to clear it up. I ended up replacing it with a PC running a software firewall (originally OpenBSD running pf, now pfSense). all my wireless access points are basic Linksys units but they are running as stripped down as possible. they are really only wireless bridges and don't host any connections anymore. ALL services are handled by my pfSense firewall (DHCP, DNS forwarding, NAT rules, etc.) and I have had zero network lockups or burnouts since.

    I have upgraded my PC to a beefed up desktop running VMware ESX hosting the pfSense firewall and now also a FreeNAS file server and an XP session to run my print server as well as my network media streaming for the house. I can easily saturate my 30 Mbit cable connection and still idle the server.. I should not see issues until i am trying to push 500+ Mbit, which wont be for a while.

  64. Linksys by kehren77 · · Score: 1

    You're doing something wrong if you got though 1 per year. I've only had one router die on me in the past 13 years. And that was after about 7 years. My WRT-54G lasted for about 7 years with no problems until it died. But at that point I wanted to replace it with an N device anyway. Been using a WRT160N ever since.

    Additionally we purchase about 9 WRT-54Gs for work in 2004. They were just now being to have issues when we replaced them in the fall of 2012. But the issue they had were with load due to a massive influx of iPads, not because of hardware failure. And the few we had that began having software issues, worked perfectly after replacing the default firmware with DD-WRT.

    Keep looking, the problem isn't your consumer grade routers.

  65. Mikrotik by macmouse · · Score: 1

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned them yet, but they make damn good gear and very reasonable prices.
    There is more of a learning curve to set them up but you can get a router (not just NAT, but with OSPF,BGP, RIP,etc) starting around $40.

    I've gone through quite a bit of business grade IT gear, and their interface is still one of my favorites.
    I had spent a solid 2-3 days trying to get a port mirroring into a vlan working correctly with a couple of netgear/hp/ciscoSMB switches, but it took me less than 5 minutes with a RB250G (~$40). Define virtual interface, in, out and done.

    http://routerboard.com/RB951-2n

  66. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  67. Re:DIY recommendation here: by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    Another problem with ESXi is file copying. You can SSH into the Host OS and move files using SCP, but VMware has intentionally crippled the speed at which SCP functions. It's really slow to back up or shuffle things to a new host.

  68. Juniper by DanielOom · · Score: 1

    I use a cheap (about U.S.$ 1000) 12-port Juniper switch at home for wiring up all rooms to the Internet. Its fairly robust and has all the features you want, except support for PPOA or PPOE.

  69. Ebay by kjs3 · · Score: 1
    I'm using used Cisco, Nortel and Dell gear purchased off eBay at home extensively. YMMV.

    I've picked up Cisco 7200 and 3600 routers for less than $250 with a couple of 100baseT interfaces that can route and basic firewall at wire speed. Even a 4700 with 2 100baseT interfaces can keep up (barely). Just make sure that you get the software image you need, as you have to pay to upgrade (or steal it).

    I'm pretty 'meh' on Cisco switches. They command a premium, and really aren't superior. I'd never pick up a Cisco chassis switch for the house; too loud and too much power draw. The Cisco gigabit switches generally are wildly overpriced. Almost anybodies gig copper managed switch can handle the home load. That said, if you have access to fiber NICs (dirt cheap), GBICs and fiber cables, things like a C3550-12G, C4812G and C3508G are going for dirt and are solid switches.

    Dell switches are a tremendous value, especially considering the feature set (VLANs, QoS, LAG/LACP, etc). They upgrade the lines quickly (creating turnover on the secondary market), update even old ones and the software updates are free.

    Nortel BayStack switches go for basically pin money because Nortel is no more and enterprise users are dumping them as fast as they can. They're every bit as good as the equivalent Cisco. Avoid the Nortel firewall/VPN gear; you really need to be able to get software updates on those, and you won't.

    There's a vast amount of enterprise WLAN gear being dumped for pennies because most everyone is upgrading to 802.11n. I see keeping my 11a gear for years, as 54/108Mb is enough for almost everything an end-point needs short of 1080p streaming and 5GHz keeps you out of baby monitor and cordless phone hell. Just don't pick up anything that needs a controller to be useful.

    P.S. - What everyone else said...get a UPS. Seriously.

    P.P.S - Look at things like Vyatta and Linux/BSD based alternatives. Other than switches, I've pretty much ditched my enterprise options for these. I'm running them on retired, last generation, enterprise Dell servers. Loud, but rock solid.

  70. Re:Old Cisco Equipment by kjs3 · · Score: 1
    Of course, if you want a gigabit switch that does layer-3, you're talking about $$$$, even on eBay.

    I've had excellent luck with Dell L3 Gig switches off eBay. You can usually pick up an older 6000-series for around ~$300 and much less if your patient.

    Also, if you can do fiber gig, the Cisco 3550-12G and 4912G can be had for much less than $100.

  71. Re:MikroTik by ZerXes · · Score: 1

    Alright, yeah I suppose mikrotik routers could be pretty common at WISPs, that is true.