Hackaday For Sale, Editors Seek Crowd Funding To Buy It

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Hackaday For Sale, Editors Seek Crowd Funding To Buy It

Posted by samzenpus on Monday July 15, 2013 @09:20AM from the raiding-the-piggy-bank dept.

ilikenwf writes "Hackaday's owner, Jason Calacanis, has decided to sell the popular hacking/modding site for around $540,000. Multiple parties are interested; the most promising buyer at the moment appears to be the current editors, who are attempting to buy the site via crowdsourcing and incorporate it under a nonprofit to keep the hacks flowing. One way or another, the site should survive."

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Buying a blog...? by DogDude · 2013-07-15 09:34 · Score: 4, Insightful

What exactly does it mean to "buy" a blog? Are they wanting to pay half a mil for a domain name? Is the content really worth half a million bucks? Or, are people just stupid when it comes to trying to put a dollar value on anything Internet related? It seems like a lovely little blog, but I don't see how any sane person could come up with a $500,000 valuation for it.

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1. Re:Buying a blog...? by tibit · 2013-07-15 09:43 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Presumably if it brings in ~$125k in ad revenue per year, it'd be "worth" about 4 times that, or $500k. I personally think that even with that much yearly ad revenue I would not spend that kind of money on such a site.
  
  --
  A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
2. Re:Buying a blog...? by MoFoQ · 2013-07-15 09:44 · Score: 1
  
  Because it does roughly $14K a month right now without much "pimping out to advertisers" (http://hackaday.com/2013/07/01/hackaday-looking-for-a-good-home/)
  It is interesting that I mentioned the crowdfunding aspect a few weeks ago when the owner posted that he was looking to sell: http://hackaday.com/2013/07/01/hackaday-looking-for-a-good-home/#comment-1021672
  *sigh*....it's before pay-day so I'll have to wait.
3. Re:Buying a blog...? by EvanED · 2013-07-15 09:47 · Score: 2
  
  They said that they were offered a revenue-sharing stream of $10K/month for 30 months. The reason they declined that, from what the editors were saying, was that it would leave too little revenue for other stuff. They also say that the current owner is using the revenue stream to fund other, unrelated startups.
  If those are true, it's likely they're getting more than $10K/month. You're looking at 3-5 years to break even at the most if that were to continue. Hackaday has been around way longer than that.
4. Re:Buying a blog...? by tibit · 2013-07-15 09:50 · Score: 1
  
  What exactly does it mean to "buy" a blog?
  Same as with doing an inter-bank transfer. A couple of entries in a couple of databases get changed. That's about it, if you want to be "exact" about it. Namely, the domain registration records will be changed, and the domain will be either re-linked to your (new) user account if you are keeping the registrar, or will be transferred to you. Same thing will happen at the hosting company: the hosts (if any) and the content will be transferred to your (new) user's account there. What $500k buys you, exactly, is maybe a dozen kilobytes worth of database pages changed :/ Of course it also buys you the opportunity to leverage a reasonably well-known brand name, but whether that's worth it or not, I can't say. As-is, the site suffers from design braindamage and makes me want to puke every time I see it.
  
  --
  A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
5. Re:Buying a blog...? by ShanghaiBill · 2013-07-15 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  Presumably if it brings in ~$125k in ad revenue per year, it'd be "worth" about 4 times that, or $500k. I personally think that even with that much yearly ad revenue I would not spend that kind of money on such a site.
  So you would turn down an investment that gave 25% returns when bonds are paying 2%? Free advice: you might want to get some professional help to manage your 401k.
6. Re:Buying a blog...? by citizenr · 2013-07-15 11:28 · Score: 1
  
  What exactly does it mean to "buy" a blog? Are they wanting to pay half a mil for a domain name?
  
  no nonooo, they want US to pay half a mil so they can keep getting paid from ad money on a monthly basis.
  They dont want to pay ANYTHING out of their pocket.
  I said it many times in HAD comments - register hackperday.com and start fresh.
  
  --
  Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
7. Re:Buying a blog...? by jxander · 2013-07-15 11:29 · Score: 1
  
  You have to take into account the lifespan and stability of websites. Maybe the creator starts up a new website and draws people away from this one, or maybe a competing website shows up, or the new ownership could just crap their pants. Maybe the creator sees the pool of potential hacks drying up, and wants to get while the getting's good.
  I'd put buying a blog right around the same level as playing craps, as far as sound long-term investments go.
  
  --
  This signature is false.
8. Re:Buying a blog...? by hawguy · 2013-07-15 11:35 · Score: 2
  
  Presumably if it brings in ~$125k in ad revenue per year, it'd be "worth" about 4 times that, or $500k. I personally think that even with that much yearly ad revenue I would not spend that kind of money on such a site.
  So you would turn down an investment that gave 25% returns when bonds are paying 2%? Free advice: you might want to get some professional help to manage your 401k.
  Past performance doesn't guarantee future results
  If anyone is putting a significant portion of their 401K into a highly speculative investment like an internet blog website, they definitely need professional help to manage their 401k.
9. Re:Buying a blog...? by ShanghaiBill · 2013-07-15 12:02 · Score: 1
  
  Past performance doesn't guarantee future results
  There is no absolute guarantee that the sun will come up tomorrow morning. But past performance suggests that it is a good bet.
  Returns on this site may go below 25%, but with better promotion and ad targeting, it is also quite likely that both traffic and ad conversion rate could go up substantially, thus raising the return rate. On balance, it looks like a risky, but potentially lucrative investment opportunity, and if the editors were asking for investors rather than handouts, I would be willing to buy some shares.
10. Re:Buying a blog...? by hawguy · 2013-07-15 12:24 · Score: 1
  
  Past performance doesn't guarantee future results
  There is no absolute guarantee that the sun will come up tomorrow morning. But past performance suggests that it is a good bet.
  Returns on this site may go below 25%, but with better promotion and ad targeting, it is also quite likely that both traffic and ad conversion rate could go up substantially, thus raising the return rate. On balance, it looks like a risky, but potentially lucrative investment opportunity, and if the editors were asking for investors rather than handouts, I would be willing to buy some shares.
  Or the editors and use rbase may decide that they don't like the new owner when he decides to muck around with the site to add better promotion and ad targeting and when they move elsewhere, all he's left with is a $6 domain name.
  If you think it's such a great investment, talk your family and friends into pulling money from their houses so they can invest in this "sure thing" company.
11. Re:Buying a blog...? by tibit · 2013-07-15 13:07 · Score: 1
  
  I consider ad-overladen sites to be an unethical exploitation of the limited lifetimes of the users/viewers. If I were to buy it, the ad revenue would likely go down not because of drop in readership, but because of significant curbing of the rather ridiculous level of corporate buttlicking shown there so far. Never mind that buying into 25% ROI is kinda like what happened with gold recently. It won't last.
  
  --
  A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
12. Re:Buying a blog...? by ShanghaiBill · 2013-07-15 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  Or the editors and use rbase may decide that they don't like the new owner ...
  Read the summary. The editors are the new owners (or will be if they get the funding).
13. Re:Buying a blog...? by hawguy · 2013-07-15 13:36 · Score: 1
  
  Or the editors and use rbase may decide that they don't like the new owner ...
  Read the summary. The editors are the new owners (or will be if they get the funding).
  I read the summary and I didn't see anything about the editors cashing in their 401K's (or mortgaging their houses) to purchase the site with their own funds because they think it is a stable investment for their retirement.
14. Re:Buying a blog...? by isorox · 2013-07-15 21:45 · Score: 1
  
  Presumably if it brings in ~$125k in ad revenue per year, it'd be "worth" about 4 times that, or $500k. I personally think that even with that much yearly ad revenue I would not spend that kind of money on such a site.
  So you would turn down an investment that gave 25% returns when bonds are paying 2%? Free advice: you might want to get some professional help to manage your 401k.
  $125k revenue != $125k profit
  $125k revenue for FY2012/13 != $125k revenue for FY2013/14
15. Re:Buying a blog...? by thegarbz · 2013-07-15 23:51 · Score: 1
  
  Wrong, wrong and wrong. They aren't selling the content. It's a blog. The content exists on other sites.
  What they are selling is a following. They are selling many thousands of hits a day. They are selling a large number of regular users (myself included). They are selling a name that people recognise which will draw in advertising revenue.
  In that respect they aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. They are selling a profit making business just like any other and given the following hackaday has they are selling it at quite a reasonable price too.
16. Re:Buying a blog...? by thegarbz · 2013-07-15 23:55 · Score: 1
  
  There is no absolute guarantee that the sun will come up tomorrow morning. But past performance suggests that it is a good bet.
  What a bizarre comparison. The sun has come up at a repeatable time consistently for as long as people were able to keep time.
  Hackaday has drawn in a variable amount of revenue for a few years at a time when the hacking craze (same time as makezine and adafruit started) really boomed. Worst of all it really is a tech site, and the tech industry seems to change gears at the drop of a dime.
  Somehow I don't think the two are comparable.
17. Re:Buying a blog...? by gl4ss · 2013-07-16 00:25 · Score: 1
  
  that's just assuming it would continue.. that the editors would keep editing. though I suppose you could keep editing yourself..
  but still, it's a risk. if you use the usual roi projections in .com world you're fucked up the ass with a hacksaw five times out of six.
  (125k of ad revenue sounds like a lot for such a site).
  also, good luck sourcing half a mil for it...
  
  --
  world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Ownership by d18c7db · 2013-07-15 09:44 · Score: 4, Insightful

So the way I see it, the campaign initiator is asking a whole bunch of supporters to buy this site for him at a cost of $540000, the contributors will not be part owners or have any say in the direction the site is run. They'll just get some trinkets in return, stickers, T shirts or some free advertising for a year.
1. Re:Ownership by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-15 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  You are correct. What was your point again?
2. Re:Ownership by CrimsonAvenger · 2013-07-15 10:18 · Score: 1
  
  When the initiator decides to issue stock, get back with me.
  
  --
  
  "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
3. Re:Ownership by flimflammer · 2013-07-15 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah?
4. Re:Ownership by brianbenchoff · 2013-07-15 11:40 · Score: 1
  
  That's a great solution to the problem of too many owners.
  Issue stock. Yeah. Great idea.
5. Re:Ownership by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-16 00:45 · Score: 1
  
  The only person that brought up that problem, or even thinks of it as one, is you. Rather self serving isn't it?
Re:Start there own site by mwvdlee · 2013-07-15 09:59 · Score: 2, Insightful

Why is the owner an asshole?
Presumably, he's spend quite a lot of his own time and money building and growing the site.
Whether it's worth the money he asks for it, is upto the market to decide. Apparently the editors think it is.

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OP Here by ilikenwf · 2013-07-15 10:05 · Score: 1

Just wanted to say I don't have a stake in this either way, and I'm not contributing anywhere. I read Hackaday and live near Caleb Craft, and thus enjoy taking a peek from time to time.
One fan's view point by mewsenews · 2013-07-15 10:19 · Score: 4, Interesting

I've read hackaday for years.
A couple weeks ago on July 1st, Caleb Kraft announced he was leaving and the site went for sale on the same day.
This was kinda suspicious for both things to happen at the same time especially because Caleb never explained why he left. HOWEVER, Caleb has posted to his personal site that he's started a new job at EETimes.com. Not sure why that was worth keeping secret.
Still, the whole thing feels like the current owner is holding the site for ransom. The way it is being explained is that the profits from hackaday are being poured into other weblogs, but if this campaign is successful, a non-profit will be formed and advertising profits will be poured back into the site.
I don't understand why they don't just buy a new domain. The freakin site is made with wordpress, who cares, the community can migrate.
1. Re:One fan's view point by AmiMoJo · 2013-07-15 10:46 · Score: 2
  
  The community isn't worth maintaining anyway. Most of the people posting either don't seem to know what they are talking about or are just trolling. Really, the level of trolling approaches YouTube at times, and the admins don't seem to be able to do anything about it.
  I think the basic problem it that HAD was build around Arduino level readers, people who really don't have a lot of knowledge or understanding and gawk at fairly simple "hacks" that many of us do day-to-day in our jobs. The really knowledgeable ones feed down a trickle of information and plug-in Arduino shields for them to play with, but anyone looking for real debate or insight goes to places like the EEVBlog forums.
  In other words HAD is really only worth what the advertising brings in. Caleb fancies himself as a dot-com half millionaire but his site is basically a badly written aggregation feed. People use it because it's convenient or they like trolling, but $500k is vastly overestimating the value.
  It will be interesting to see what happens when they fail to reach their target, because they will then get nothing. Caleb will also be in line to get nothing, having pitched way too high.
  
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2. Re:One fan's view point by brianbenchoff · 2013-07-15 11:17 · Score: 2
  
  Guy behind this whole mess here.
  You might have noticed some really weird stuff on Hackaday recently. The two new additions to the Hackaday 'family' - the lifehacks and handmade subdomains - are Jason's idea. We weren't too thrilled with the lifehacks but I digress.
  The straw that broke Caleb's back was the suggestion of a 'fashion hacks' sub. I'll admit what laqueristas can do is extremely impressive, but it's not really Hackaday, is it?
  When the 'for sale' post went up, a whole bunch of people suggested doing a kickstarter or something. I did it, and that's where we are today.
  Caleb went to EETimes, I'll still be at Hackaday even if this campaign doesn't succeed. I'd really like to make Hackaday better than what it is, and without the revenue going towards Jason's other startups, we can do that. We have the revenue and fanbase to do some really, really cool stuff.
3. Re:One fan's view point by brianbenchoff · 2013-07-15 11:38 · Score: 2
  
  This isn't Caleb's idea. It's mine.
  If the campaign fails to meet its goal, Jason will either sell it to someone else, or he'll keep running it like it is forever. If it does succeed, I'm not a dot com half millionaire. Jason gets the money. I just get the job of making Hackaday better than what it is now.
  As far as the trolls... Yeah. We do a hands-off moderation policy. We might start thinking about some sort of 'voting' comment system if this thing succeeds.
4. Re:One fan's view point by mirix · 2013-07-15 12:49 · Score: 2
  
  Yep. 90% of the 'hacks' are terrible, most of the write-ups are terrible, and 95% of the comments are clueless or trolling.
  Still some interesting things on occasion, though.
  
  --
  Sent from my PDP-11
5. Re:One fan's view point by MoFoQ · 2013-07-15 14:45 · Score: 1
  
  well...that doesn't mean Caleb can't make a cameo appearance once in a while...shoot....you need his help for that old VW project we keep hearing about.
6. Re:One fan's view point by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-15 16:27 · Score: 1
  
  Who bothers reading comments on there anyway? They are slightly better than youtube level. I might scan through them for interesting links, but generally it's just a bunch of bickering. JUst look at the projects, fuck the comments.
7. Re:One fan's view point by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-15 21:20 · Score: 1
  
  I agree - the write ups are terrible - the editors can't edit, and they have a very thin technical knowledge. HaD could be great - if they invested in qualified writers and took the time to copy edit.
  PS If you follow the threads on HaD you'll see that despite running a profitable site, they previously had the gall to ask for donations for a 3D printer... The level of profits only becoming apparent when the site went up for sale. Not straight up, not guys I would trust to do business with.
Re:half a mil for a wordpress site ? by arfonrg · 2013-07-15 10:28 · Score: 4, Insightful

Anyone can start a Wordpress site, he's selling the brand and the following. I have several blogs and they are alot of work.
I love Hack-a-Day and I thank him for getting it this far. I hope it stays around.

--
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MIght as well get rid of my RSS by Nyder · 2013-07-15 10:28 · Score: 1

I like hackaday, been following it for years. But now that it is for sale, i might as well forget it. 99% that some corporation is going to buy it and ruin it.
Makers are big, hacking is big, somewhat popular site based on those 2? Ya, corporation is going to fuck it till it bleeds, then leave it for something else.

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1. Re:MIght as well get rid of my RSS by Spy+Handler · 2013-07-15 10:36 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  yeah, hope that never happens to Slashdot.
2. Re:MIght as well get rid of my RSS by Osgeld · 2013-07-15 13:05 · Score: 1
  
  you know hack a day has been owned by a cooperation for the better part of its life right?
  © 2007-2013 Mahalo.com Incorporated
3. Re:MIght as well get rid of my RSS by Jaruzel · 2013-07-15 20:50 · Score: 1
  
  You sir, made me spew my morning tea. Well done :)
  
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Re:Start there own site by Seumas · 2013-07-15 10:44 · Score: 1

He's a pretty douchy constant self-promoter and bragger. I also remember one of the few times I've sat around watching the TWiT (This Week In Tech) network with Leo Laporte and he was on it (the $10m/yr indie podcasting network with like 20+ shows and like 40 hours of content a week) and he asked him if he could use "This Week In..." for ONE of his shows that he wanted to do on his own network.
Next thing you know, JC was building an entire network of his own where EVERYTHING was "This Week In..."
That's pretty fucking low and douchey.
Re:half a mil for a wordpress site ? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-07-15 11:28 · Score: 1

Like any good site, it's the content you buy, not the software behind it. Christ.
Re:They’re going to buy HackADay for us by brianbenchoff · 2013-07-15 12:49 · Score: 1

Totally stealing this.
Re:half a mil for a wordpress site ? by davester666 · 2013-07-15 16:58 · Score: 1

It's not the content. He's selling eyeballs viewing ads.

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Re:half a mil for a wordpress site ? by smooth+wombat · 2013-07-16 00:55 · Score: 1

Anyone can start a Wordpress site,

Especially the spammers. While looking up a product I came across a WordPress site whose name was only a series of random characters and whose title belied the crap it was trying to push.

Doing the responsible thing, I tried to contact WordPress to have that site, and apparently related sites, shut down. No email, because email is so yesterday, so following the multiple links to finally get to a reporting page, I found the form wouldn't submit using two different browsers. In Fx the Continue button was never active and in IE it simply said Validating for ever and a day.

So yeah, anyone can start a WordPress, but good luck getting them to take down obvious spam.

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